Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast, a paranormal podcast network. Your quest
Speaker 1: for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here.
Speaker 1: Invite you to enjoy all our shows we have on
Speaker 1: this network, and right now, let's start with The Afterlife
Speaker 1: with Sandra sham Plain. Welcome to our podcast. Please be
Speaker 1: aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host
Speaker 1: are their thoughts and opinions only and do not reflect
Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast,
Speaker 1: am employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.
Speaker 1: We would like to encourage you to do your own
Speaker 1: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, I'm
Speaker 1: Sander Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been on
Speaker 1: a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
Speaker 1: On each episode, will discuss the reasons we now know
Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so
Speaker 1: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. My goodness,
Speaker 1: have I had a good day. We're in the final
Speaker 1: stages of editing our first feature film, and it's called
Speaker 1: Rinaldi and it's about Sonya Ronaldi, who I interviewed on
Speaker 1: episode one of Shades of the Afterlife, and she has
Speaker 1: been experimenting and getting pictures and voices from people in
Speaker 1: the afterlife. So February twenty two is a data mark
Speaker 1: on your calendar. Be sure to go to We Don't
Speaker 1: Die dot com. We are going to be showing the film.
Speaker 1: The good news is I have seen it. Well, actually
Speaker 1: i've seen it twice today, just final edits and things
Speaker 1: like that, and I was so moved and so inspired.
Speaker 1: Not only is her story, but there's obviously a lot
Speaker 1: of pictures and audios that have come through, and so
Speaker 1: many testimonials from mainly parents who have been reconnected with
Speaker 1: their children. So be on the lookout for that. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you more. I can't help but talk about it.
Speaker 1: Today on the show, you're going to meet Dr Penny
Speaker 1: sar Tory, who worked as an intensive care nurse for
Speaker 1: seventeen years, meaning she has worked daily with dying patients.
Speaker 1: She undertook the UK's largest and first long term study
Speaker 1: of near death experiences and was awarded a PhD for
Speaker 1: her research. She's the author of the book The Wisdom
Speaker 1: of the Near death experience how understanding NDSE can help
Speaker 1: us live lives more fully. Dr Sartory, Welcome to Shades
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. Oh thanks, Sandra, lovely to be here now, Penny.
Speaker 1: You did tell me I can call you Penny before
Speaker 1: the show started. What led you into discovering and researching
Speaker 1: near death experiences? Well, the thing that really sparked it
Speaker 1: all for me was when I was looking after a
Speaker 1: man in intensive care and he was clearly dying, and
Speaker 1: he had quite a prolonged death, and it made me
Speaker 1: realize that we really don't understand death at all. But
Speaker 1: his death that night shifter that I was looking after him,
Speaker 1: really profoundly affected me, and it made me very upset.
Speaker 1: And I started then thinking about what does happen when
Speaker 1: we die? What is death all about? And I realized
Speaker 1: that we know very little about death, We know very
Speaker 1: little about the dying process. So I started to read
Speaker 1: about death, and then I came across near death experiences
Speaker 1: and they sounded fascinating to me. I read one account
Speaker 1: and I was hooked in immediate and you know, they
Speaker 1: had such a wonderful, powerful message, and so I was
Speaker 1: really kind of gripped from the beginning and then I
Speaker 1: think my scientific side of me, you know, with my
Speaker 1: nursing training that was very scientific, it had kind of
Speaker 1: said that these are just hallucinations, it was just a
Speaker 1: dying brain. But I became more and more curious and
Speaker 1: I read more about them, and then I started asking
Speaker 1: patients I was looking after if they'd had any experiences,
Speaker 1: and I didn't find anything, you know, in the beginning,
Speaker 1: but I thought, well, this is the ideal place for
Speaker 1: me to do my own research, and so it's kind
Speaker 1: of went from there, and so I got on board.
Speaker 1: Then I applied to the University of Wales and I
Speaker 1: was lucky enough then to begin my own study. So
Speaker 1: I was really lucky and fortunate to have two great supervisors,
Speaker 1: Professor Paul Badham, who was a theologian and he is
Speaker 1: also an expert in near death experiences. And there's also
Speaker 1: Dr Peter Fennick, who was a neuropsychiatrist and neuro physiologist.
Speaker 1: So these were both my supervisors. So I had a
Speaker 1: lot of great support, you know, throughout the whole of approacess. Sure,
Speaker 1: and let me just take a minute to acknowledge you
Speaker 1: for being who you were by so many patients bedsides
Speaker 1: My father uh died in two thousand ten and he
Speaker 1: had cancer and he was surrounded by the most loving
Speaker 1: group of nurses, and it takes a very strong, compassionate
Speaker 1: and loving person to be in that field when there's
Speaker 1: so much fear, there's so much pain, and just I
Speaker 1: really want to acknowledge you for being one of those
Speaker 1: people to comfort both the patient and the family in
Speaker 1: that time of life. Oh, thank you. That's so nice
Speaker 1: to hear, because you know, it gets so busy in
Speaker 1: the hospitals and things, and I think there are so
Speaker 1: many great nurses out there doing such a great job
Speaker 1: and it's it's lovely to have that acknowledgement. So thank
Speaker 1: you for saying you're welcome. And was talking to someone
Speaker 1: not too long ago. Also, um, there are many physicians
Speaker 1: that that it's been said that they don't believe in
Speaker 1: life after death. They're more of the there's no proof
Speaker 1: of life after death, that near death experiences are just hallucinations.
Speaker 1: And someone said, what who you really need to talk
Speaker 1: to is the nurses that are by the bedside, and
Speaker 1: they might feel a little bit differently. So it's just
Speaker 1: my honor to be able to have you today, so really,
Speaker 1: really wonderful. So what kind of things when you started
Speaker 1: um opening up this investigation into near death experiences? What
Speaker 1: kind of things did you find? Well? I found quite
Speaker 1: a lot of things, really, because I was gathering the
Speaker 1: data for five years and then it took me another
Speaker 1: three years to actually write it up because there was
Speaker 1: so much data there and there were a lot of
Speaker 1: things that I came across and how people do have
Speaker 1: these experiences, and you mentioned earlier on that a lot
Speaker 1: of people kind of dismissed them as hallucination, and you
Speaker 1: do see a lot of patients who hallucinate in the
Speaker 1: intensive care units. So what I did was that I
Speaker 1: did a comparison of patients who were clearly hallucinating and
Speaker 1: also patients who had the near death experience. And what
Speaker 1: I found was that both of these experiences were very different.
Speaker 1: So for the person who had the near death experience,
Speaker 1: they were adamant that this was a very real experience.
Speaker 1: It was realer than real, So this was a heightened
Speaker 1: state of awareness. It wasn't in any confusional state at all.
Speaker 1: Now with the hallucinations, that was very confusional. And when
Speaker 1: I followed up to patients after a few months time,
Speaker 1: they could rationalize that they had been hallucinating and they
Speaker 1: were quite embarrassed by their actions. Now with the person
Speaker 1: who had the near death experience, they remained adamant that
Speaker 1: it was just as vivid in their mind, and it
Speaker 1: was a very real experience, and they said that unless
Speaker 1: you've experienced it for yourself, there is no way that
Speaker 1: you could understand what the experience is like. So there
Speaker 1: were very clear differences. And with the hallucinations as well,
Speaker 1: when I investigated them in depth, they were all attributable
Speaker 1: to what was going on in the background as the
Speaker 1: patients were reviving and coming around from their sedation. It
Speaker 1: was things that they could hear going on in the background.
Speaker 1: But with the near death experience, it wasn't due to
Speaker 1: things that were going on in the background, So there
Speaker 1: were clear differences there. I have had my share of
Speaker 1: wine and Margarita's, and yes, I can't clearly remember things
Speaker 1: and and although they seem real at the time. And
Speaker 1: I've talked to many people that have had the near
Speaker 1: death experience, and one thing they compare it to is
Speaker 1: when we wake up in the morning and you've had
Speaker 1: a dream that seems so real, but you wake up
Speaker 1: in the morning and you say, oh, that was just
Speaker 1: a dream. Many people the best words that they can
Speaker 1: describe the near death experiences where they woke up, whether
Speaker 1: they call it heaven or the hereafter or the other side,
Speaker 1: it was so real that it made our life on
Speaker 1: earth seemed like it was just the dream. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: quite consistent that sort of report amongst people as well,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like an experience that is beyond
Speaker 1: any other human experience. So there's no words to describe
Speaker 1: this experience, how wonderful it is, and what a lot
Speaker 1: of people report feeling is just pure unconditional love that
Speaker 1: they've never experienced in their life before. And in fact,
Speaker 1: this can be so overwhelming for the people that they
Speaker 1: become very emotional. And I've spoken to grown there and
Speaker 1: who have just broken down in floods of tears at
Speaker 1: the memory and the recall of this wonderful experience that
Speaker 1: they had. So it's a very profound experience. It's something
Speaker 1: that remains very much etched into the minds of the
Speaker 1: people as well. In fact, I had a letter a
Speaker 1: few years ago from a lady who was in her
Speaker 1: nineties and she said, I had this experience when I
Speaker 1: was when I was a teenager, and she said, I
Speaker 1: told my mother about it, and she told me and
Speaker 1: not tell anyone ever about it. So she said, I
Speaker 1: never told anyone, but it's just as vivid in my
Speaker 1: mind now as if it happened two minutes ago. They're amazing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it, and it's so it's a very vivid experience
Speaker 1: and it stays with the person as well. And they
Speaker 1: also describe this great sense of unity as well, where
Speaker 1: we're all one, and particularly in the life review, some
Speaker 1: people have a life review during their near death experience
Speaker 1: and they can see literally the whole of their life
Speaker 1: played in front of them, and it's all going on
Speaker 1: at once. It's it's kind of described as like a
Speaker 1: panoramic life review, and what they sometimes see is that
Speaker 1: they relive their life, and sometimes they can relive it
Speaker 1: from a third person perspective. So if they've been saying
Speaker 1: unpleasant or violent to someone, they feel like what it
Speaker 1: feels like to be on the receiving end of that.
Speaker 1: But also if they've been really nice to someone or
Speaker 1: just been kind in a way that they didn't realize,
Speaker 1: they feel like what it's like to be on the
Speaker 1: receiving end. Of that kindness, and it's like a ripple
Speaker 1: effect as well, and very often they can see the
Speaker 1: ripple effect that their kindness has had on other people.
Speaker 1: And these are simple things that people don't really think
Speaker 1: twice about doing. It could be something as simple as
Speaker 1: holding the door open for someone, but that does have
Speaker 1: such a profound effect in a ripple effect sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So it really does have a really nice experience for them.
Speaker 1: And sometimes they feel like when they have in the
Speaker 1: life review, that there's a presence with them, and they
Speaker 1: feel like this presence is acting more like someone who's
Speaker 1: comforting them. So if they're looking at, say, things that
Speaker 1: they're not particularly proud of that they've done in their life,
Speaker 1: it's the person themselves who is watching this life review
Speaker 1: who is doing the judging. The presence that's with them
Speaker 1: is acting as a comforter as well. So it's a
Speaker 1: really profound, deep experience for these people. It's amazing. So
Speaker 1: is there a sense of judgment or made wrong or right?
Speaker 1: Not so much judgment really, it's more that the people
Speaker 1: themselves reflecting back on their actions and what they've done
Speaker 1: in their life, and they kind of think themselves, well,
Speaker 1: I could have done that better or I did that
Speaker 1: particularly well. It's that kind of thing. It's like a
Speaker 1: reflection more than anything. And that's for a good advice
Speaker 1: for as we're living now, if we believe that this
Speaker 1: may be coming in our future, that maybe some of
Speaker 1: these things we can resolve now, that's right, I know,
Speaker 1: and you know, since doing this research, it's certainly had
Speaker 1: a big effect on me. And I know back in
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, Professor Kenneth Ring he did a big
Speaker 1: study in to near death experiences and he found that
Speaker 1: he used to teach a course to students at the university,
Speaker 1: and he found that his students were actually changed in
Speaker 1: ways very similar to the ways that people who have
Speaker 1: a near death experience a changed simply through learning about
Speaker 1: the experience. And I've certainly found that to be true
Speaker 1: in my life. Penny. We need to take a quick
Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we'd like to find
Speaker 1: out more from you about what you discovered with near
Speaker 1: death experiences and maybe a few stories. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. Keep it here
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM
Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network. Sander Champlain will be right back. We
Speaker 1: are happy to announce that our Coast to Coast a
Speaker 1: M official YouTube channel has now reached over three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first hour of
Speaker 1: recent and past shows for free, so head on over
Speaker 1: to the Coast to Coast a M dot com website
Speaker 1: and hit the YouTube icon at the top of the page.
Speaker 1: This is free show audio, so don't wait. Coast to
Speaker 1: Coast am dot com is where you want to be.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 1: and we are here with Dr Penny sar Tory talking
Speaker 1: about near death experiences. Penny, how has this discovery changed
Speaker 1: your life? So? Learning about near death experiences has really
Speaker 1: had a profound effect on me, and in fact, it's
Speaker 1: totally changed the way I perceived my life and it's
Speaker 1: made me. I've never been happier really since learning about musics.
Speaker 1: That's really wonderful. I know for me, the more I
Speaker 1: hear these stories, the more I hear them from credible people,
Speaker 1: the longer time goes on hearing more and more, we
Speaker 1: really tend to believe them. Yes, absolutely, and that's what
Speaker 1: I think. You know, these people who have a near
Speaker 1: death experience have a very profound message for us, and
Speaker 1: I think there are so many arguments that's saying these
Speaker 1: suggest hallucinations, so they due to the lack of oxygen
Speaker 1: and things like that, but we are overlooking this very
Speaker 1: important message that they have. And I think it's when
Speaker 1: we start to contemplate death and what it means to
Speaker 1: us in our own lives, that's when we start to
Speaker 1: really learn about life. And that's certainly been the case
Speaker 1: for me learning about this death. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of my friends and family used to say, that's a
Speaker 1: really morbid subject. What are you talking about death all
Speaker 1: the time? For why are you researching this? But it's
Speaker 1: only since learning about death that I've really learned about life,
Speaker 1: and to me, it's been a wonderful, enriching experience. There's
Speaker 1: a meditation and I don't know if it's the Buddhists
Speaker 1: or who it is, but it's it's like a nightly
Speaker 1: meditation about seeing their life come to an end, about
Speaker 1: dying and as morbid as that had first sounded to me,
Speaker 1: when you can really embrace death and that the body
Speaker 1: is going to disappear. There's a new access to living
Speaker 1: life similar to this is just my belief. I've talked
Speaker 1: to many people that were diagnosed with cancer, and whether
Speaker 1: they went into remission or not, there was a new
Speaker 1: way of living life. There was a new way of
Speaker 1: um making amends with people, of going after their dreams,
Speaker 1: of saying things they hadn't said before. And if we
Speaker 1: can give people that gift right now just by listening
Speaker 1: to this, I mean, what an incredible life a person
Speaker 1: might lead. Yeah, You've got a really good point there,
Speaker 1: because a very good friend of mine, she was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with cancer good few years ago and it really kind
Speaker 1: of shook her will totally. And I was chatting with
Speaker 1: her one day we met for coffee and she said,
Speaker 1: do you know, she said, this has actually been a
Speaker 1: gift to me, and it had made a really contemplate
Speaker 1: her life in ways that she'd never contemplated life before,
Speaker 1: and it had given her a completely different way of
Speaker 1: living her life as well. Yeah, and there's so And
Speaker 1: I'm sure you hear this as well, that you've been
Speaker 1: by enough bedsides. I I hear stories that so many
Speaker 1: people have regrets and things left unsaid, are things they
Speaker 1: would have done differently, and fear and what would it
Speaker 1: be like to be by the dying patient's bedside with
Speaker 1: them feeling like they're going to close their eyes maybe
Speaker 1: in that room, but opened them somewhere else. It's it's
Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned that because I have sat with
Speaker 1: many patients who are dying, and sometimes you do see
Speaker 1: people who are agitated and fear full and distressed, worried
Speaker 1: about things that they've done in their life. And I
Speaker 1: think having had the benefit of doing my research, it's
Speaker 1: really totally helped in the way that I care for
Speaker 1: these patients as they're dying, and if it's appropriate, I
Speaker 1: kind of mentioned about the research that I do and
Speaker 1: and I've tried to reassue with them, and in fact,
Speaker 1: it has helped quite a few patients well I've looked
Speaker 1: after and I think it kind of gives them something
Speaker 1: different to think about and and also makes them reevaluate
Speaker 1: what they've been worrying about as well. You know what
Speaker 1: a gift that's a whole an other gift you are
Speaker 1: of people. Let me ask you a question. I've heard
Speaker 1: stories that moments before people's death, they see angels or
Speaker 1: they see loved ones or they become more alert and awake,
Speaker 1: or they might even raise their head and be talking.
Speaker 1: Have you ever experienced any of those stories? I have?
Speaker 1: In fact, I've I've witnessed that loads of times. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure they will be nurses listening to this, and
Speaker 1: they'll probably have the same to say. And I can remember,
Speaker 1: oh years ago now when I on my very first
Speaker 1: day on the ward as a student nurse. I was
Speaker 1: sitting in having the report from the night nurse and
Speaker 1: she said, the man in bed six in that section,
Speaker 1: he'll be dead by the end of the morning. He's
Speaker 1: been talking to his dead mother since three o'clock this morning.
Speaker 1: And I looked around and I thought, are they trying
Speaker 1: to wind me up? Because this is my first day.
Speaker 1: I looked around and everyone carried on writing as if
Speaker 1: it was quite a normal thing to say. So I
Speaker 1: got intrigued, and after the report, I went to this
Speaker 1: patient's bedside and I could see him kind of gesture
Speaker 1: into someone and calling out to someone or why I
Speaker 1: couldn't see. And I kept going back and forth to
Speaker 1: see this man throughout the course of the morning, and
Speaker 1: then it was about eleven thirty and he kind of
Speaker 1: sat up. He got some energy from somewhere. He sat
Speaker 1: up and he outstretched his arms as if he was
Speaker 1: welcoming someone, and he had a big smile on his face,
Speaker 1: and then he just relaxed and lay back down, closed
Speaker 1: his eyes, and he'd actually died. So that was the
Speaker 1: first kind of deathbed vision that I had actually witnessed,
Speaker 1: But a lot of my colleagues at that time were
Speaker 1: quite used to seeing them, And then as my nursing
Speaker 1: career progressed, I used to see that more and more.
Speaker 1: And in fact, as my grandfather was dying, we nursed
Speaker 1: him at home and he used to point to the doorway.
Speaker 1: Every time he used to do that, my grandmother used
Speaker 1: to get quite spoken because she thought that that was
Speaker 1: a sign of impending death. I used to run out,
Speaker 1: but he seemed very content and he was smiling as
Speaker 1: if he was really happy and wanted us to see
Speaker 1: who was there. And he did die a few days
Speaker 1: later as well, but he had a very peaceful and
Speaker 1: comfortable death. So it's almost as if these people who
Speaker 1: are dieing do see dead relatives who come with the
Speaker 1: purpose of taken them away into another realm. Maybe, But
Speaker 1: I know there was another patient in my study and
Speaker 1: it was on a night shift, and my colleagues called
Speaker 1: my attention to him and they said, look, we'd called
Speaker 1: his family in because he was expected to die. And
Speaker 1: it was about four am and his condition had stabilize,
Speaker 1: so the family said, oh, we're going to go home.
Speaker 1: We're really tired now. So that he went home. It
Speaker 1: was about ten minutes after they had left, and he
Speaker 1: started communicating with someone and he had this really big
Speaker 1: smile on his face and he was like yeah, and
Speaker 1: he was just mouth in the words what are you
Speaker 1: doing here? And having a conversation with someone we couldn't see,
Speaker 1: But that was observed by all of my colleagues now.
Speaker 1: The following day, when his family went back to visit him,
Speaker 1: he said to them, during the night he had been
Speaker 1: visited by his dead mother and dead grandmother. But he said,
Speaker 1: I can't understand this, and he said, my sister was
Speaker 1: with them. What was she doing with them now? And
Speaker 1: beknown to him, his sister had actually died the week before,
Speaker 1: but no one had told him. The family didn't want
Speaker 1: to tell him because they didn't want to set back
Speaker 1: his recovery and upset him, so he didn't know that
Speaker 1: his sister died, but she appeared to him in the
Speaker 1: night with his mother and grandmother. If that's not validation
Speaker 1: or give someone a hope that that's beautiful. It just
Speaker 1: put goose bumps down my spine with that one. There
Speaker 1: was a woman that I know, her mother just passed away.
Speaker 1: She was in critical care and hadn't spoken or moved
Speaker 1: her eyes, and just moments before she died, her head
Speaker 1: lifted up and she looked around the room and with
Speaker 1: a big smile, she said hello, hello, hello, and she
Speaker 1: was speaking to those that she must have seen, and
Speaker 1: then her head went down, closed her eyes and she
Speaker 1: passed away. Oh wow, Oh that's lovely. Yes, it is
Speaker 1: so nice to see that as well. And you know,
Speaker 1: another thing that interests me as well. I was chatting
Speaker 1: to a hospice consultant doctor. She had many years of
Speaker 1: caring for patients as they were dying, and I was
Speaker 1: telling her of my interest in near death experiences, and
Speaker 1: she said, you know, it's funny that the most peaceful
Speaker 1: deaths that she witnessed were from people who had previously
Speaker 1: had a near death experience. So it's as if they
Speaker 1: really don't know what to expect, you know, and they
Speaker 1: have absolutely, no anxiety and no fear of death at all.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be wonderful? Let me ask you a question
Speaker 1: about our deceased relatives. When people have had a near
Speaker 1: death experience, the people that you've researched, do they say
Speaker 1: that their loved ones were there? Could people see people
Speaker 1: or maybe not? Always? Yes, they could. That was quite
Speaker 1: a common thing really in my research. A lot of
Speaker 1: the patients did actually see family members and they sent
Speaker 1: them back. They said, what are you doing here? You
Speaker 1: shouldn't be here. You've got to go back. And you
Speaker 1: know that the patients were very happy where they were.
Speaker 1: They wanted to stay there. It was peaceful, it was painfree,
Speaker 1: it was comfortable, and they wanted to be there with
Speaker 1: their dead relatives. But the relatives said, no, it's not
Speaker 1: your time. You've got to go back. In fact, some
Speaker 1: people are quite disappointed as well that coming back into life.
Speaker 1: You know what some of that. If there's no fear,
Speaker 1: if there's unconditional love, if you're reunited with those you've loved,
Speaker 1: I can understand that. Oh no, I'm happy right here,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yes, absolutely, do people claim that their loved
Speaker 1: ones look the same. I've heard people say that they're younger.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's right, they are they Sometimes, you know, if
Speaker 1: they've had an ailment, or they had illness prior to
Speaker 1: their death, and perhaps they've lost a lot of weight
Speaker 1: and everything. Well, they say that when they see them
Speaker 1: in the vision type form, they've completely changed. They look younger,
Speaker 1: they look radiant, they look healthy, and they look happy.
Speaker 1: And one of the patients in my study, actually he
Speaker 1: had a very interesting experience for two different reasons. Now,
Speaker 1: he met up with a dead relative and he said
Speaker 1: that she looked really lovely, she looked really happy, and
Speaker 1: she looked radiant. And what was really interesting about his
Speaker 1: experience is that she said, you've got to go back now.
Speaker 1: It's it's not your time. You're the head of the family.
Speaker 1: You've got to go back. But when you go back,
Speaker 1: can you give this message to a living relative. So
Speaker 1: when the patient revived, he gave this message to the
Speaker 1: living relative and she was absolutely the astounded that he
Speaker 1: should know this information. It was something that she had
Speaker 1: gone to great lengths to keep a secret from him.
Speaker 1: Yet he found out this information during a time when
Speaker 1: he was deeply unconscious. So that's something that we can't
Speaker 1: really understand so something profound happened during that time when
Speaker 1: he was unconscious, and he gained information in ways other
Speaker 1: than through the senses. So that to me was a
Speaker 1: really important case. Penny, I was just talking not too
Speaker 1: long ago on one of the shows about a man
Speaker 1: who kept having dreams. It wasn't a near death experience,
Speaker 1: but it was after his father passed and he kept
Speaker 1: having dreams that his dad had come to him and
Speaker 1: told him that he had five thousand dollars in cash
Speaker 1: hidden in his top dresser drawer. And sure enough, when
Speaker 1: the man opened the top dresser drawer, dad had a
Speaker 1: stack of magazines and in one of the bottom magazines
Speaker 1: he opened it up, there was an envelope with five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash. So it's absolutely amazing what can
Speaker 1: come from experiences from the beyond. So let's go into
Speaker 1: our next break and when we come back, we'll see
Speaker 1: what other things you have in store for his Peggy.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network,
Speaker 1: the best afterlife information you can get. Well, You're Shades
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sander Champlaine Welcome back to Shades
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are with
Speaker 1: Dr Penny's or Tori, talking about near death experiences. Penny,
Speaker 1: from all the research you've done over all these years,
Speaker 1: what happens physically in the afterlife? Do we still have
Speaker 1: our five senses? Can we still here and smell and
Speaker 1: taste and can we hug? Yes? Some people do, Um.
Speaker 1: Some people have had these experiences, not in my hospital research,
Speaker 1: but people who have written to me over the years.
Speaker 1: They have described actually hugging loved ones. And you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've I've asked them does it feel real, like
Speaker 1: a solid person, and they some of them have said, yes,
Speaker 1: it does feel solid. Some people can smell smells associated
Speaker 1: with them, like, for example, their favorite perfumes or flowers
Speaker 1: that they particularly like, and in fact, this is quite
Speaker 1: common in something called after death communications, and that is
Speaker 1: another thing that interests me. UM. Some people have reported
Speaker 1: having they can actually see their deceased loved ones, They
Speaker 1: can feel them, they can smell their perfume. They may
Speaker 1: get something symbolic as well, something like seeing a butterfly
Speaker 1: out of season or a rainbow, something that has significance
Speaker 1: to someone and it often gives the person then great
Speaker 1: comfort knowing that they loved one is kind of given
Speaker 1: some sort of message for that to them as well.
Speaker 1: I think it's easy for the skeptical mind to justify
Speaker 1: that that's not possible. I'll tell you what, I think.
Speaker 1: Our minds here on Earth really can be our worst
Speaker 1: enemies sometimes, you know, we can find evidence for whatever
Speaker 1: it is we want to believe in. And you know
Speaker 1: what I like to remind people is around us is
Speaker 1: this miraculous world. You're in the UK, I'm in the
Speaker 1: United States, and we are able to speak without any
Speaker 1: wires connecting us right now. You know, I have nothing
Speaker 1: connected to my computer, and somehow we're connecting. We have
Speaker 1: around us this virtual world called the Internet, and we're
Speaker 1: able to pick up wirelessly in this invisible world. And
Speaker 1: it's my personal belief that if this invisible world can
Speaker 1: be real, heaven can also be real with our loved
Speaker 1: ones existing in a place just invisible to our eyes,
Speaker 1: but that they're there. So we need to sometimes get
Speaker 1: out of our own thinking that you need to be
Speaker 1: able to see it, feel it here it, smell it,
Speaker 1: or touch it for it to be real. When around
Speaker 1: us there are some invisible things that are very very real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of just don't understand these things,
Speaker 1: you know, So it's it's no reason to discredit them
Speaker 1: because they do have a powerful effect on the grieving
Speaker 1: process that from you or so, Yeah, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of their therapeutic benefits to these experiences,
Speaker 1: and it would be wise to take more notice of them. Really,
Speaker 1: would you speak a little bit about that, maybe what
Speaker 1: you feel the difference would be After studying near death
Speaker 1: experiences and the grieving process, I think what we need
Speaker 1: to do really is incorporate these into our education because
Speaker 1: there are so many people who are kind of skeptical
Speaker 1: or not necessarily skeptically. They just have preconceptions that they
Speaker 1: know that these are hallucinations and that's all it is.
Speaker 1: But it's not. You know, those are my preconceptions before
Speaker 1: I started my research, and yeah, and and doing my
Speaker 1: research is has just opened my eyes because I've witnessed
Speaker 1: things during my role as a nurse looking after patients
Speaker 1: who are dying. And I think we really do need
Speaker 1: to take more notice of these, and I think people
Speaker 1: are taking them on board now, they are noticing them
Speaker 1: more and I think like grief counselors, for example, they
Speaker 1: do recognize the therapeutic benefits of understanding near death experiences.
Speaker 1: And I know a friend of mine was going to
Speaker 1: grief therapy and her counselor had suggested that she read
Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences, and she did this, and
Speaker 1: they did have a big effect on her grieving process.
Speaker 1: It did help with it, you know, it did help
Speaker 1: her to work through that loss of her loved one.
Speaker 1: So I think it is important that we take notice
Speaker 1: of these. Yes, I do too. Any words from those
Speaker 1: that have experienced the near death experiences or people that
Speaker 1: have written to you about what they feel. The reason
Speaker 1: for life is life here on earth. It's almost as
Speaker 1: if we kind of developing and growing ourselves, really, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's about growth of our true self and having
Speaker 1: different experiences so that we learn from these experiences and
Speaker 1: we can be the best person who were meant to be. Really,
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Has there been anybody who or any commonalities
Speaker 1: of how they described whether they call it have then
Speaker 1: or they hereafter, Well, they tend they tend to be
Speaker 1: influenced really by the person's upbringing and their culture, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of people kind of they followed the
Speaker 1: same themes, but it's mainly the things that are in
Speaker 1: the person's cultural background and their upbringing. So for example,
Speaker 1: people in the West are more likely to see images
Speaker 1: of Christ or beautiful gardens with lush green grass, vividly
Speaker 1: colored flowers, and perhaps people in places like the Philippines.
Speaker 1: A colleague of mine her grandmother had a very deep
Speaker 1: near death experience many years ago, and she said that
Speaker 1: she had an arduous journey up a big mountain and
Speaker 1: it was very difficult. It was a struggle to get
Speaker 1: to the top. But when she got to the top,
Speaker 1: she met this man and he had a white flowing
Speaker 1: robe on and it was a wonderful experience and it
Speaker 1: completely changed her life, you know. So there are differences
Speaker 1: according to the culture of the person. And for example,
Speaker 1: people in India they report seeing a man called Chit
Speaker 1: who is the man with the book, and it's a
Speaker 1: book of the deeds, and it's the deeds of their
Speaker 1: life kind of thing, almost very similar to the Life
Speaker 1: review in in some respects as well. So so there
Speaker 1: are very much cultural influences in how this experience is perceived.
Speaker 1: And again, you know, even young children have these experiences,
Speaker 1: and that particularly interests me because they have no preconceptions
Speaker 1: of death, you know, they don't know, and they haven't
Speaker 1: they don't discuss death. And one case, a particular least
Speaker 1: sticks in my mind. It features in my book The
Speaker 1: Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Is a young boy and
Speaker 1: his dad was working in the army base in Germany
Speaker 1: and his little boy got seriously unwell, had to go
Speaker 1: to the operating room for emergency surgery, and while in
Speaker 1: the operating room, he had a cardiac arrest and luckily
Speaker 1: he recovered. He was resuscitated and he recovered, and a
Speaker 1: few months later his father wrote this letter to me
Speaker 1: said I couldn't under couldn't believe this when he said it,
Speaker 1: But he said, I was very shocked because I said
Speaker 1: to him on my day off, what you want to do?
Speaker 1: Should we go somewhere? And his son said, yes, I
Speaker 1: want to go to the park. And his father said
Speaker 1: that there was no park around. You know, he'd never
Speaker 1: taken his send to the park in Germany. So he said, well,
Speaker 1: what park are you talking about? And he said the
Speaker 1: park that I went to when I was in the hospital.
Speaker 1: I had to get to it. I had to go
Speaker 1: through that tunnel to get into the park. And when
Speaker 1: I was in the park, there was a white picket
Speaker 1: fence and he said, I tried to climb over the fence,
Speaker 1: but there was a man standing behind the fence and
Speaker 1: he said, no, you've got to go back. You can't
Speaker 1: come in. And he said, I went back down the
Speaker 1: tunnel and I ended back in the hospital. Oh that's beautiful,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's a young boy. You know,
Speaker 1: how how can they have that kind of preakness? So
Speaker 1: they can't. I had spoken with a man who was
Speaker 1: feeling a lot of guilt that he wasn't watching his son,
Speaker 1: and his son got into a lake and ended up drowning,
Speaker 1: and then he was revived and I met him. I
Speaker 1: met this man on an airplane. But what had happened
Speaker 1: is when the sun woke up in the hospital, he
Speaker 1: was happy to see his father, and his father was saying,
Speaker 1: you know what happened, And the little boy wanted to
Speaker 1: try to swim, is what happened, even though he was
Speaker 1: too young to swim. But he said, well what happened?
Speaker 1: He says, Well, then I swallowed water, and then he
Speaker 1: described how he floated up and he looked down on
Speaker 1: the water and he says the big face was there,
Speaker 1: and the big face said it would be okay in
Speaker 1: big bright face, and that it wasn't time I had
Speaker 1: to go back to you, daddy, you know, and I
Speaker 1: just beautiful Penny. Has anybody reported like a hell or
Speaker 1: negativity or you know what, I'm asking the violence that
Speaker 1: the bad stuff. Some people do get these, and it's
Speaker 1: a it's a very small minority of the near death experience,
Speaker 1: possibly depending on what research you look at, probably around
Speaker 1: about fourteen percent, So it's a very small number that
Speaker 1: people do get this, and these can be very traumatic
Speaker 1: for people as well. There's very in different degrees of
Speaker 1: the distressing kind of experiences. The first type is where
Speaker 1: the person sort of interprets that they have the prototypical
Speaker 1: near death experience of going down the tunnel towards the
Speaker 1: light and meeting deceased relatives, but it's usually interpreted in
Speaker 1: a frightening way. Then you get the second type, which
Speaker 1: is described as like a void experience, where the person
Speaker 1: feels like they're in this eternal, meaningless void. And then
Speaker 1: you get the third type, which is very distressing, where
Speaker 1: people feel that they're in hell or looking into hell,
Speaker 1: and that is very traumatic impact. A lot of people
Speaker 1: won't talk about it. So it's very difficult to research
Speaker 1: these experiences because they have such a profound and traumatic
Speaker 1: effect on people that they don't really want to recall
Speaker 1: them and they don't want to share them. And in fact,
Speaker 1: some people feel like there's a stigma involved with it
Speaker 1: and say, why why did I have this unpleasant experience
Speaker 1: when so many people have a lovely experience? What have
Speaker 1: I gen wrong in my life? And so I think
Speaker 1: we certainly do need to do more research to understand
Speaker 1: these so that we can support these people. But what
Speaker 1: I've noticed as well from my research is that some
Speaker 1: people they start off having this kind of distressing experience,
Speaker 1: but if they relax into it, it often turns into
Speaker 1: a very pleasant experience. So I can start off unpleasant,
Speaker 1: but it can then turn into a really wonderful, beautiful experience.
Speaker 1: I talked to one man, Penny, who tried to end
Speaker 1: his own life, and he experienced and not pleasant, but
Speaker 1: almost that scary hell kind of feeling. What he took
Speaker 1: back with him was not the feeling that the afterlife
Speaker 1: was scary, but more so that it scared him enough
Speaker 1: to not try to do this again. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a like a higher intelligence going on, and maybe
Speaker 1: our minds are still connected because that silver cord has
Speaker 1: not yet been cut. And then I also talked to
Speaker 1: another man who didn't lead a very good life, and
Speaker 1: he wasn't a very nice person, and he really experienced
Speaker 1: the darkness and fear and all those things, and instinctively
Speaker 1: he started to pray, and the white light that he saw,
Speaker 1: this little pin prick turned brighter and brighter and brighter
Speaker 1: and brighter, and so eventually he was filled with unconditional love.
Speaker 1: So the experience might be different for other people. And
Speaker 1: I do think there's a higher intelligence involved. I guess
Speaker 1: it's the best I can call it. So we need
Speaker 1: to take our last break, and then when we come back, Penny,
Speaker 1: who knows where we're gonna go, we'll find out more
Speaker 1: about your stories. We'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 1: and we are with Dr Penny sar Tory, author of
Speaker 1: the book The Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Penny, do
Speaker 1: you find with people that there's a commonality when they
Speaker 1: come back after experiencing a near death experience that they
Speaker 1: want to live a better life? Oh, definitely yes. It's
Speaker 1: it's all about being of service to other people and
Speaker 1: they realize that into connectivity, that unity, and basically they
Speaker 1: have a wonderful message, which is like treat others as
Speaker 1: you would wish to be treated yourself. And it's not
Speaker 1: just something that they say, they actually live by that
Speaker 1: as well. You know, the their actions are very mindful
Speaker 1: towards other people. They're very compassionate as well. As a
Speaker 1: result of the experience, they're more tolerant, they're more loving,
Speaker 1: they're very much changed as a result of the experience. Wow,
Speaker 1: and I love what you say that by sharing your research,
Speaker 1: it is possible for people to live this kind of
Speaker 1: life now as opposed to having to have a car
Speaker 1: accident or actually having a near death experience. That it's
Speaker 1: possible to live this now. Absolutely yes, And you know
Speaker 1: there's so many experiences so we could do all of these.
Speaker 1: Take a heat of what these people are saying, and
Speaker 1: even by acting like this being kind to other people.
Speaker 1: There's so much research out out there to show that
Speaker 1: how being kind to other people has a very positive
Speaker 1: effect on our health as well. So you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's it's a really important thing to take on board.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned that about health. I've heard that before.
Speaker 1: And also I love watching or reading about stories where
Speaker 1: people make a difference with other people, or when people
Speaker 1: find their passion or they achieve a dream. There is
Speaker 1: this sense of joy and inspiration that fills me, and
Speaker 1: I get the feeling of having like the goose bumps
Speaker 1: or goose pimples you might call them. But I can
Speaker 1: only assume that that good feeling has to be producing
Speaker 1: some good chemical something in my in my body. You know,
Speaker 1: it just has to be because it feels so good.
Speaker 1: I mean, we know the the benefits of laughter on
Speaker 1: the system, so I would think making a difference like
Speaker 1: that would also. Absolutely. There's so many studies out there,
Speaker 1: you know. I teach a course at the university and
Speaker 1: it kind of touches on these things. How science, spirituality
Speaker 1: and health all blend into one, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think understanding about the effects that we have on the
Speaker 1: people through our actions can really impact on our health
Speaker 1: as well. And I think being kind and compassionate and
Speaker 1: living towards others is ultimately being a benefit to ourselves
Speaker 1: as well. And it feels good, absolutely, yes. So Penny,
Speaker 1: where is your passion right now? I mean, what are
Speaker 1: you interested in studying? Learning? Sharing wealth? What makes you
Speaker 1: have these experiences? You know, I've learned so much from
Speaker 1: these people, and when my book came out, I've just
Speaker 1: been receiving so many hundreds of emails every day. For
Speaker 1: the first week or so, I had about two hundred
Speaker 1: emails a day. Now it's kind of tailed off to
Speaker 1: about sort of maybe a hundred emails a week now,
Speaker 1: but that's still an incredible amount of emails. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: It is that there's just so many people out there
Speaker 1: we've had this experience, and it's almost as if they
Speaker 1: feel like they've had permission to talk about it now.
Speaker 1: You know, I really want to do more with this
Speaker 1: work because that's where my passion is. You know, it's
Speaker 1: completely gripped my life and it's really changed the way
Speaker 1: I lived my life, and so I want to do
Speaker 1: more with this. That's why I that have gave up
Speaker 1: nursince so that I can concentrate on these experiences and
Speaker 1: do more with this research. Well, I will definitely be
Speaker 1: your partner and sharing your book with as many people
Speaker 1: as I can, because I think there are so many
Speaker 1: people that may have had an experience, or even if
Speaker 1: they didn't have a near death experience, I think very
Speaker 1: often people have had an experience that they might have
Speaker 1: known who was on the telephone before the phone started ringing,
Speaker 1: or have had some synchronicities, or just or have had
Speaker 1: a visitation and a dream from a loved one, or
Speaker 1: maybe we're with a loved one when they passed away.
Speaker 1: But there's something that's told them that life is more
Speaker 1: than meets the eye. And unfortunately, and a lot of
Speaker 1: our culture, we don't talk about it, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of a taboo thing. But meanwhile, so many people believe,
Speaker 1: and it's people like you and me and so many
Speaker 1: of the others that are saying, hey, this is regular,
Speaker 1: this is real, and it's allowing people to listen and
Speaker 1: then to share. Penny. When when I first approached the
Speaker 1: publisher that I wanted to write a book called We
Speaker 1: Don't Die, I was scared to death that this man
Speaker 1: would think I am crazy. And also when I told
Speaker 1: my friends and family that this is the book, I
Speaker 1: thought everybody would outcast me. I thought there'd be nobody
Speaker 1: that wanted to buy it, and that I would live
Speaker 1: a hermit for the rest of my life. And that's
Speaker 1: how crippling fear can be. And then of course the
Speaker 1: flip side happened. Everybody's interested and it's become easy for
Speaker 1: me to share. I may not be something for everybody,
Speaker 1: but that's okay, I say it, you know, with honoring
Speaker 1: people who they are. But if more people could not
Speaker 1: have the fear of what will people think if, you know,
Speaker 1: if they knew that I believed in this and I
Speaker 1: and I really applaud you for being someone who's acted
Speaker 1: like studying and sharing making a difference with others. And
Speaker 1: I think you probably live a good life, don't you. Yes,
Speaker 1: certainly do, especially since doing this research. And it's interesting
Speaker 1: that you should mention about fear because having done this
Speaker 1: research has really made me overcome one of my biggest fears,
Speaker 1: which is speaking publicly. And it was a huge fear
Speaker 1: for me and I used to shake the first time.
Speaker 1: As I used to do it, I'd be on stage
Speaker 1: and I'd be physically shaken. I was that afraid of it.
Speaker 1: And having done this research now it's made me so
Speaker 1: passionate about the research that I'm not afraid of public
Speaker 1: speaking anymore. Congratulations. But you know, there's, like Mary Anne
Speaker 1: Williamson says, you know, we can live out of fear,
Speaker 1: or you can live out of love. And when you
Speaker 1: live out of love, everything kind of goes the right way,
Speaker 1: then yes. And when you look at other people around
Speaker 1: and you just know it's just another one of you
Speaker 1: sitting over there, that we don't really have to be
Speaker 1: afraid of others. Every single one of us has our
Speaker 1: own hopes and dreams and fear years and so all
Speaker 1: around you is just more people just like you, Penny.
Speaker 1: Our time is coming to an end. But I want
Speaker 1: to just ask, is there anything left unsaid or anything
Speaker 1: just sprung to mind? Is that also as well? Something
Speaker 1: that we don't really realize is that people have more
Speaker 1: control over the time that they die than what we realized.
Speaker 1: And I noticed this a lot when I worked in
Speaker 1: the I c U, and that sometimes we had patients
Speaker 1: who maybe would hang on until a relative had traveled
Speaker 1: a great distance to come and meet them, had to
Speaker 1: come and see them, and and then after the relative arrived,
Speaker 1: they would die shortly afterwards. And some people as well,
Speaker 1: what I found was they would even wait for the
Speaker 1: family to leave the room before they died. So it's
Speaker 1: a very unique experience. And there were many patients where
Speaker 1: the family had just kind of gone to the canteen
Speaker 1: for a quick coffee, and as soon as the family
Speaker 1: had left, the patient rapidly deteriorated. Even many times I
Speaker 1: had to run down to the canteen to get the
Speaker 1: family back, and during that time the patient had actually died.
Speaker 1: And so it's a very unique experience and it's down
Speaker 1: to us as individuals, and I think we have more
Speaker 1: control over that time than what we realize. As well.
Speaker 1: That made me think about there was a nurse that
Speaker 1: I had spoke to that she said she'd open a
Speaker 1: window and often that that would make a difference with
Speaker 1: someone suffering that it was okay to let go. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's quite common. Really, we often do that,
Speaker 1: and even when a patient had died, we swopen the
Speaker 1: windows as well. It's almost like a tradition as well
Speaker 1: amongst some nurses. That is so beautiful. I know you're
Speaker 1: thousands of miles away, but just imagine that I'm giving
Speaker 1: you a big virtual hug. Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you really for just giving your life, for making
Speaker 1: a difference, whether it's being a nursing or now being
Speaker 1: one of the very few people that have taken the
Speaker 1: time to do all of this research and to share
Speaker 1: it so genuinely in a way that just makes a
Speaker 1: difference for other people. Penny, it just extraordinary. You will
Speaker 1: never ever well, no, let me take that back. What
Speaker 1: I was going to say is you'll never see the
Speaker 1: difference that you've made with so many lives. But I'm
Speaker 1: taking that back because my prayer is that when you
Speaker 1: have your life review, you see the ripple effect of
Speaker 1: the difference that you've made with thousands and may then
Speaker 1: it might be millions of people that they are able
Speaker 1: to have a better life now and their family have
Speaker 1: a better life, better relationships and just a wonderful you know,
Speaker 1: create a little bit of heaven on earth. So thank you, oh,
Speaker 1: thank you, Sandra. That's a beautiful thing to say. You're
Speaker 1: You're welcome. And now to find out more about you,
Speaker 1: you have the website Dr Penny sar Tory dot com.
Speaker 1: That's correct, excellent, And I just ask if this interview
Speaker 1: has made a difference for you today, would you take
Speaker 1: one step and it might be in fear, and just
Speaker 1: share it with someone that you know that might make
Speaker 1: it might make a difference for And sometimes it's hard
Speaker 1: to approach the subject if you believe in life after
Speaker 1: death or this has inspired you, but just say, hey,
Speaker 1: I listened to something really great today. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you'd be interested in it, but have you heard
Speaker 1: about near death experiences? This fabulous nurse Dr Penny star
Speaker 1: Tory has done all these studies and wow, I think
Speaker 1: you might really be interested in that. And sometimes just
Speaker 1: opening the door like that, somebody will say, yeah, that
Speaker 1: sounds great or no, that's not really my thing. But
Speaker 1: if you feel inspired to do so, I ask that
Speaker 1: you share. I know I certainly will, so, Penny, thank
Speaker 1: you again, thank you for taking the time to be here. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you, Sandra, and keep up the great way. I
Speaker 1: definitely will. And for our listener, our home basis we
Speaker 1: Don't Die dot com and there's so many things happening,
Speaker 1: you know, I said the beginning. Our movie premiere will
Speaker 1: be coming out in February, so keep an eye on
Speaker 1: the website. I'll be sure to let you know about that.
Speaker 1: On the bottom of the main page, you can join
Speaker 1: my email list and that will let you know everything
Speaker 1: that's going on. We keep in touch every week with
Speaker 1: a newsletter, and we have online courses and medium demonstrations.
Speaker 1: Are world famous Sunday gathering that couldn't be more inspirational
Speaker 1: and motivating. Plus there's a free medium, reading within each
Speaker 1: and everyone, and remember it's tough being human. No matter
Speaker 1: what we figure out or discover about the afterlife, our
Speaker 1: minds our egos want to convince us that it's not real.
Speaker 1: So that's why it's important to continue listening to empowering things,
Speaker 1: talking to empowering people, reading empowering books, and trust that
Speaker 1: there's so much of a bigger picture that you or
Speaker 1: I can't possibly know. But our loved ones are around us,
Speaker 1: They're cheering us on. We will see them again. Our
Speaker 1: life is for a purpose, So dig deep into what
Speaker 1: you're passionate about, start doing it, start sharing it. Ask
Speaker 1: for support if you need it. So in closing, my
Speaker 1: name is Sandra Champlain and I'm always so happy to
Speaker 1: be your host. You've been listening to Shades of the
Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast AM
Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks again, and if you like this
Speaker 1: episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until you hear
Speaker 1: the next one. Thank you for listening to the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m Paranormal Podcast Network.