1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,040
Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the I Heart Radio

2
00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,600
Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast, a paranormal podcast network. Your quest

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here.

4
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 1: Invite you to enjoy all our shows we have on

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,240
Speaker 1: this network, and right now, let's start with The Afterlife

6
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 1: with Sandra sham Plain. Welcome to our podcast. Please be

7
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host

8
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: are their thoughts and opinions only and do not reflect

9
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast,

10
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: am employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.

11
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,240
Speaker 1: We would like to encourage you to do your own

12
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 1: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, I'm

13
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 1: Sander Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been on

14
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 1: a journey to prove the existence of life after death.

15
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: On each episode, will discuss the reasons we now know

16
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,320
Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so

17
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. My goodness,

18
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 1: have I had a good day. We're in the final

19
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,679
Speaker 1: stages of editing our first feature film, and it's called

20
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,720
Speaker 1: Rinaldi and it's about Sonya Ronaldi, who I interviewed on

21
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,160
Speaker 1: episode one of Shades of the Afterlife, and she has

22
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:41,680
Speaker 1: been experimenting and getting pictures and voices from people in

23
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 1: the afterlife. So February twenty two is a data mark

24
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: on your calendar. Be sure to go to We Don't

25
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: Die dot com. We are going to be showing the film.

26
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: The good news is I have seen it. Well, actually

27
00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 1: i've seen it twice today, just final edits and things

28
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 1: like that, and I was so moved and so inspired.

29
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: Not only is her story, but there's obviously a lot

30
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: of pictures and audios that have come through, and so

31
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 1: many testimonials from mainly parents who have been reconnected with

32
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: their children. So be on the lookout for that. You know,

33
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,920
Speaker 1: I'll tell you more. I can't help but talk about it.

34
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 1: Today on the show, you're going to meet Dr Penny

35
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 1: sar Tory, who worked as an intensive care nurse for

36
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,239
Speaker 1: seventeen years, meaning she has worked daily with dying patients.

37
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 1: She undertook the UK's largest and first long term study

38
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,640
Speaker 1: of near death experiences and was awarded a PhD for

39
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: her research. She's the author of the book The Wisdom

40
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 1: of the Near death experience how understanding NDSE can help

41
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: us live lives more fully. Dr Sartory, Welcome to Shades

42
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,239
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. Oh thanks, Sandra, lovely to be here now, Penny.

43
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 1: You did tell me I can call you Penny before

44
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 1: the show started. What led you into discovering and researching

45
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 1: near death experiences? Well, the thing that really sparked it

46
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: all for me was when I was looking after a

47
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,600
Speaker 1: man in intensive care and he was clearly dying, and

48
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 1: he had quite a prolonged death, and it made me

49
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 1: realize that we really don't understand death at all. But

50
00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,079
Speaker 1: his death that night shifter that I was looking after him,

51
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: really profoundly affected me, and it made me very upset.

52
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 1: And I started then thinking about what does happen when

53
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: we die? What is death all about? And I realized

54
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: that we know very little about death, We know very

55
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 1: little about the dying process. So I started to read

56
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 1: about death, and then I came across near death experiences

57
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: and they sounded fascinating to me. I read one account

58
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 1: and I was hooked in immediate and you know, they

59
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 1: had such a wonderful, powerful message, and so I was

60
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: really kind of gripped from the beginning and then I

61
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,120
Speaker 1: think my scientific side of me, you know, with my

62
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: nursing training that was very scientific, it had kind of

63
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: said that these are just hallucinations, it was just a

64
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 1: dying brain. But I became more and more curious and

65
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,679
Speaker 1: I read more about them, and then I started asking

66
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,559
Speaker 1: patients I was looking after if they'd had any experiences,

67
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 1: and I didn't find anything, you know, in the beginning,

68
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 1: but I thought, well, this is the ideal place for

69
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,760
Speaker 1: me to do my own research, and so it's kind

70
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,720
Speaker 1: of went from there, and so I got on board.

71
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 1: Then I applied to the University of Wales and I

72
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: was lucky enough then to begin my own study. So

73
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 1: I was really lucky and fortunate to have two great supervisors,

74
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 1: Professor Paul Badham, who was a theologian and he is

75
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 1: also an expert in near death experiences. And there's also

76
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,039
Speaker 1: Dr Peter Fennick, who was a neuropsychiatrist and neuro physiologist.

77
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 1: So these were both my supervisors. So I had a

78
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 1: lot of great support, you know, throughout the whole of approacess. Sure,

79
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,840
Speaker 1: and let me just take a minute to acknowledge you

80
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: for being who you were by so many patients bedsides

81
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 1: My father uh died in two thousand ten and he

82
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: had cancer and he was surrounded by the most loving

83
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 1: group of nurses, and it takes a very strong, compassionate

84
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: and loving person to be in that field when there's

85
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 1: so much fear, there's so much pain, and just I

86
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,279
Speaker 1: really want to acknowledge you for being one of those

87
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: people to comfort both the patient and the family in

88
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 1: that time of life. Oh, thank you. That's so nice

89
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: to hear, because you know, it gets so busy in

90
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 1: the hospitals and things, and I think there are so

91
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 1: many great nurses out there doing such a great job

92
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 1: and it's it's lovely to have that acknowledgement. So thank

93
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 1: you for saying you're welcome. And was talking to someone

94
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: not too long ago. Also, um, there are many physicians

95
00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 1: that that it's been said that they don't believe in

96
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 1: life after death. They're more of the there's no proof

97
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 1: of life after death, that near death experiences are just hallucinations.

98
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 1: And someone said, what who you really need to talk

99
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: to is the nurses that are by the bedside, and

100
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 1: they might feel a little bit differently. So it's just

101
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: my honor to be able to have you today, so really,

102
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 1: really wonderful. So what kind of things when you started

103
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 1: um opening up this investigation into near death experiences? What

104
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 1: kind of things did you find? Well? I found quite

105
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things, really, because I was gathering the

106
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: data for five years and then it took me another

107
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 1: three years to actually write it up because there was

108
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 1: so much data there and there were a lot of

109
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: things that I came across and how people do have

110
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 1: these experiences, and you mentioned earlier on that a lot

111
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 1: of people kind of dismissed them as hallucination, and you

112
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 1: do see a lot of patients who hallucinate in the

113
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: intensive care units. So what I did was that I

114
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: did a comparison of patients who were clearly hallucinating and

115
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: also patients who had the near death experience. And what

116
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 1: I found was that both of these experiences were very different.

117
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: So for the person who had the near death experience,

118
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 1: they were adamant that this was a very real experience.

119
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 1: It was realer than real, So this was a heightened

120
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: state of awareness. It wasn't in any confusional state at all.

121
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: Now with the hallucinations, that was very confusional. And when

122
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,160
Speaker 1: I followed up to patients after a few months time,

123
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 1: they could rationalize that they had been hallucinating and they

124
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: were quite embarrassed by their actions. Now with the person

125
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 1: who had the near death experience, they remained adamant that

126
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 1: it was just as vivid in their mind, and it

127
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 1: was a very real experience, and they said that unless

128
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,120
Speaker 1: you've experienced it for yourself, there is no way that

129
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: you could understand what the experience is like. So there

130
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: were very clear differences. And with the hallucinations as well,

131
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 1: when I investigated them in depth, they were all attributable

132
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 1: to what was going on in the background as the

133
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: patients were reviving and coming around from their sedation. It

134
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 1: was things that they could hear going on in the background.

135
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: But with the near death experience, it wasn't due to

136
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 1: things that were going on in the background, So there

137
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 1: were clear differences there. I have had my share of

138
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: wine and Margarita's, and yes, I can't clearly remember things

139
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 1: and and although they seem real at the time. And

140
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 1: I've talked to many people that have had the near

141
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: death experience, and one thing they compare it to is

142
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 1: when we wake up in the morning and you've had

143
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 1: a dream that seems so real, but you wake up

144
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 1: in the morning and you say, oh, that was just

145
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 1: a dream. Many people the best words that they can

146
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,559
Speaker 1: describe the near death experiences where they woke up, whether

147
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,320
Speaker 1: they call it heaven or the hereafter or the other side,

148
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 1: it was so real that it made our life on

149
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 1: earth seemed like it was just the dream. Yes, it's

150
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 1: quite consistent that sort of report amongst people as well,

151
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like an experience that is beyond

152
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,719
Speaker 1: any other human experience. So there's no words to describe

153
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 1: this experience, how wonderful it is, and what a lot

154
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 1: of people report feeling is just pure unconditional love that

155
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 1: they've never experienced in their life before. And in fact,

156
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: this can be so overwhelming for the people that they

157
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 1: become very emotional. And I've spoken to grown there and

158
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,839
Speaker 1: who have just broken down in floods of tears at

159
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 1: the memory and the recall of this wonderful experience that

160
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 1: they had. So it's a very profound experience. It's something

161
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,320
Speaker 1: that remains very much etched into the minds of the

162
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: people as well. In fact, I had a letter a

163
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 1: few years ago from a lady who was in her

164
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,959
Speaker 1: nineties and she said, I had this experience when I

165
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 1: was when I was a teenager, and she said, I

166
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,080
Speaker 1: told my mother about it, and she told me and

167
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,839
Speaker 1: not tell anyone ever about it. So she said, I

168
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,839
Speaker 1: never told anyone, but it's just as vivid in my

169
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 1: mind now as if it happened two minutes ago. They're amazing, Yeah,

170
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 1: that's it, and it's so it's a very vivid experience

171
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,719
Speaker 1: and it stays with the person as well. And they

172
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 1: also describe this great sense of unity as well, where

173
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 1: we're all one, and particularly in the life review, some

174
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,439
Speaker 1: people have a life review during their near death experience

175
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,679
Speaker 1: and they can see literally the whole of their life

176
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,080
Speaker 1: played in front of them, and it's all going on

177
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: at once. It's it's kind of described as like a

178
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 1: panoramic life review, and what they sometimes see is that

179
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 1: they relive their life, and sometimes they can relive it

180
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 1: from a third person perspective. So if they've been saying

181
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,439
Speaker 1: unpleasant or violent to someone, they feel like what it

182
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,760
Speaker 1: feels like to be on the receiving end of that.

183
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 1: But also if they've been really nice to someone or

184
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,960
Speaker 1: just been kind in a way that they didn't realize,

185
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: they feel like what it's like to be on the

186
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: receiving end. Of that kindness, and it's like a ripple

187
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 1: effect as well, and very often they can see the

188
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 1: ripple effect that their kindness has had on other people.

189
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: And these are simple things that people don't really think

190
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 1: twice about doing. It could be something as simple as

191
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: holding the door open for someone, but that does have

192
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,400
Speaker 1: such a profound effect in a ripple effect sort of thing.

193
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 1: So it really does have a really nice experience for them.

194
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: And sometimes they feel like when they have in the

195
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,160
Speaker 1: life review, that there's a presence with them, and they

196
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,480
Speaker 1: feel like this presence is acting more like someone who's

197
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 1: comforting them. So if they're looking at, say, things that

198
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 1: they're not particularly proud of that they've done in their life,

199
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 1: it's the person themselves who is watching this life review

200
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: who is doing the judging. The presence that's with them

201
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 1: is acting as a comforter as well. So it's a

202
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 1: really profound, deep experience for these people. It's amazing. So

203
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: is there a sense of judgment or made wrong or right?

204
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 1: Not so much judgment really, it's more that the people

205
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 1: themselves reflecting back on their actions and what they've done

206
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,160
Speaker 1: in their life, and they kind of think themselves, well,

207
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 1: I could have done that better or I did that

208
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 1: particularly well. It's that kind of thing. It's like a

209
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: reflection more than anything. And that's for a good advice

210
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: for as we're living now, if we believe that this

211
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 1: may be coming in our future, that maybe some of

212
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 1: these things we can resolve now, that's right, I know,

213
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: and you know, since doing this research, it's certainly had

214
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 1: a big effect on me. And I know back in

215
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, Professor Kenneth Ring he did a big

216
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: study in to near death experiences and he found that

217
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 1: he used to teach a course to students at the university,

218
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 1: and he found that his students were actually changed in

219
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: ways very similar to the ways that people who have

220
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: a near death experience a changed simply through learning about

221
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 1: the experience. And I've certainly found that to be true

222
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: in my life. Penny. We need to take a quick

223
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we'd like to find

224
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 1: out more from you about what you discovered with near

225
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 1: death experiences and maybe a few stories. You're listening to

226
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and

227
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. Keep it here

228
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM

229
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network. Sander Champlain will be right back. We

230
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 1: are happy to announce that our Coast to Coast a

231
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,280
Speaker 1: M official YouTube channel has now reached over three hundred

232
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 1: thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first hour of

233
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 1: recent and past shows for free, so head on over

234
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,680
Speaker 1: to the Coast to Coast a M dot com website

235
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 1: and hit the YouTube icon at the top of the page.

236
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: This is free show audio, so don't wait. Coast to

237
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 1: Coast am dot com is where you want to be.

238
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,040
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain

239
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: and we are here with Dr Penny sar Tory talking

240
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 1: about near death experiences. Penny, how has this discovery changed

241
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: your life? So? Learning about near death experiences has really

242
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: had a profound effect on me, and in fact, it's

243
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 1: totally changed the way I perceived my life and it's

244
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 1: made me. I've never been happier really since learning about musics.

245
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: That's really wonderful. I know for me, the more I

246
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: hear these stories, the more I hear them from credible people,

247
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 1: the longer time goes on hearing more and more, we

248
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: really tend to believe them. Yes, absolutely, and that's what

249
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: I think. You know, these people who have a near

250
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 1: death experience have a very profound message for us, and

251
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 1: I think there are so many arguments that's saying these

252
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,240
Speaker 1: suggest hallucinations, so they due to the lack of oxygen

253
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 1: and things like that, but we are overlooking this very

254
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 1: important message that they have. And I think it's when

255
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 1: we start to contemplate death and what it means to

256
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 1: us in our own lives, that's when we start to

257
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 1: really learn about life. And that's certainly been the case

258
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: for me learning about this death. You know, a lot

259
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: of my friends and family used to say, that's a

260
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 1: really morbid subject. What are you talking about death all

261
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: the time? For why are you researching this? But it's

262
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,880
Speaker 1: only since learning about death that I've really learned about life,

263
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: and to me, it's been a wonderful, enriching experience. There's

264
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 1: a meditation and I don't know if it's the Buddhists

265
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 1: or who it is, but it's it's like a nightly

266
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 1: meditation about seeing their life come to an end, about

267
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 1: dying and as morbid as that had first sounded to me,

268
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 1: when you can really embrace death and that the body

269
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: is going to disappear. There's a new access to living

270
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: life similar to this is just my belief. I've talked

271
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 1: to many people that were diagnosed with cancer, and whether

272
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: they went into remission or not, there was a new

273
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 1: way of living life. There was a new way of

274
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: um making amends with people, of going after their dreams,

275
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 1: of saying things they hadn't said before. And if we

276
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 1: can give people that gift right now just by listening

277
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 1: to this, I mean, what an incredible life a person

278
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 1: might lead. Yeah, You've got a really good point there,

279
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 1: because a very good friend of mine, she was diagnosed

280
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 1: with cancer good few years ago and it really kind

281
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 1: of shook her will totally. And I was chatting with

282
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: her one day we met for coffee and she said,

283
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,199
Speaker 1: do you know, she said, this has actually been a

284
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: gift to me, and it had made a really contemplate

285
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: her life in ways that she'd never contemplated life before,

286
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: and it had given her a completely different way of

287
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,679
Speaker 1: living her life as well. Yeah, and there's so And

288
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure you hear this as well, that you've been

289
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 1: by enough bedsides. I I hear stories that so many

290
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,679
Speaker 1: people have regrets and things left unsaid, are things they

291
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: would have done differently, and fear and what would it

292
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: be like to be by the dying patient's bedside with

293
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: them feeling like they're going to close their eyes maybe

294
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 1: in that room, but opened them somewhere else. It's it's

295
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 1: interesting that you mentioned that because I have sat with

296
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 1: many patients who are dying, and sometimes you do see

297
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 1: people who are agitated and fear full and distressed, worried

298
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 1: about things that they've done in their life. And I

299
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 1: think having had the benefit of doing my research, it's

300
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 1: really totally helped in the way that I care for

301
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: these patients as they're dying, and if it's appropriate, I

302
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 1: kind of mentioned about the research that I do and

303
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 1: and I've tried to reassue with them, and in fact,

304
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 1: it has helped quite a few patients well I've looked

305
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,919
Speaker 1: after and I think it kind of gives them something

306
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: different to think about and and also makes them reevaluate

307
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 1: what they've been worrying about as well. You know what

308
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 1: a gift that's a whole an other gift you are

309
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: of people. Let me ask you a question. I've heard

310
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 1: stories that moments before people's death, they see angels or

311
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: they see loved ones or they become more alert and awake,

312
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 1: or they might even raise their head and be talking.

313
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: Have you ever experienced any of those stories? I have?

314
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 1: In fact, I've I've witnessed that loads of times. And

315
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure they will be nurses listening to this, and

316
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: they'll probably have the same to say. And I can remember,

317
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 1: oh years ago now when I on my very first

318
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 1: day on the ward as a student nurse. I was

319
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: sitting in having the report from the night nurse and

320
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: she said, the man in bed six in that section,

321
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: he'll be dead by the end of the morning. He's

322
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: been talking to his dead mother since three o'clock this morning.

323
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: And I looked around and I thought, are they trying

324
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 1: to wind me up? Because this is my first day.

325
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: I looked around and everyone carried on writing as if

326
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: it was quite a normal thing to say. So I

327
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: got intrigued, and after the report, I went to this

328
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,880
Speaker 1: patient's bedside and I could see him kind of gesture

329
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: into someone and calling out to someone or why I

330
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 1: couldn't see. And I kept going back and forth to

331
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 1: see this man throughout the course of the morning, and

332
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 1: then it was about eleven thirty and he kind of

333
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 1: sat up. He got some energy from somewhere. He sat

334
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: up and he outstretched his arms as if he was

335
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: welcoming someone, and he had a big smile on his face,

336
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 1: and then he just relaxed and lay back down, closed

337
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: his eyes, and he'd actually died. So that was the

338
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: first kind of deathbed vision that I had actually witnessed,

339
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: But a lot of my colleagues at that time were

340
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 1: quite used to seeing them, And then as my nursing

341
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: career progressed, I used to see that more and more.

342
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: And in fact, as my grandfather was dying, we nursed

343
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: him at home and he used to point to the doorway.

344
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 1: Every time he used to do that, my grandmother used

345
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: to get quite spoken because she thought that that was

346
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: a sign of impending death. I used to run out,

347
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,880
Speaker 1: but he seemed very content and he was smiling as

348
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: if he was really happy and wanted us to see

349
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: who was there. And he did die a few days

350
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: later as well, but he had a very peaceful and

351
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: comfortable death. So it's almost as if these people who

352
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: are dieing do see dead relatives who come with the

353
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: purpose of taken them away into another realm. Maybe, But

354
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: I know there was another patient in my study and

355
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: it was on a night shift, and my colleagues called

356
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: my attention to him and they said, look, we'd called

357
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: his family in because he was expected to die. And

358
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 1: it was about four am and his condition had stabilize,

359
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: so the family said, oh, we're going to go home.

360
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: We're really tired now. So that he went home. It

361
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: was about ten minutes after they had left, and he

362
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: started communicating with someone and he had this really big

363
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: smile on his face and he was like yeah, and

364
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: he was just mouth in the words what are you

365
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: doing here? And having a conversation with someone we couldn't see,

366
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: But that was observed by all of my colleagues now.

367
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: The following day, when his family went back to visit him,

368
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: he said to them, during the night he had been

369
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: visited by his dead mother and dead grandmother. But he said,

370
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: I can't understand this, and he said, my sister was

371
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: with them. What was she doing with them now? And

372
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: beknown to him, his sister had actually died the week before,

373
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: but no one had told him. The family didn't want

374
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: to tell him because they didn't want to set back

375
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: his recovery and upset him, so he didn't know that

376
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: his sister died, but she appeared to him in the

377
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: night with his mother and grandmother. If that's not validation

378
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: or give someone a hope that that's beautiful. It just

379
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: put goose bumps down my spine with that one. There

380
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: was a woman that I know, her mother just passed away.

381
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: She was in critical care and hadn't spoken or moved

382
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: her eyes, and just moments before she died, her head

383
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: lifted up and she looked around the room and with

384
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: a big smile, she said hello, hello, hello, and she

385
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 1: was speaking to those that she must have seen, and

386
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: then her head went down, closed her eyes and she

387
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: passed away. Oh wow, Oh that's lovely. Yes, it is

388
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: so nice to see that as well. And you know,

389
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: another thing that interests me as well. I was chatting

390
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: to a hospice consultant doctor. She had many years of

391
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: caring for patients as they were dying, and I was

392
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: telling her of my interest in near death experiences, and

393
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: she said, you know, it's funny that the most peaceful

394
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: deaths that she witnessed were from people who had previously

395
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: had a near death experience. So it's as if they

396
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: really don't know what to expect, you know, and they

397
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 1: have absolutely, no anxiety and no fear of death at all.

398
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be wonderful? Let me ask you a question

399
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: about our deceased relatives. When people have had a near

400
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: death experience, the people that you've researched, do they say

401
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: that their loved ones were there? Could people see people

402
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: or maybe not? Always? Yes, they could. That was quite

403
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: a common thing really in my research. A lot of

404
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: the patients did actually see family members and they sent

405
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: them back. They said, what are you doing here? You

406
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: shouldn't be here. You've got to go back. And you

407
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: know that the patients were very happy where they were.

408
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: They wanted to stay there. It was peaceful, it was painfree,

409
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: it was comfortable, and they wanted to be there with

410
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: their dead relatives. But the relatives said, no, it's not

411
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: your time. You've got to go back. In fact, some

412
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: people are quite disappointed as well that coming back into life.

413
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: You know what some of that. If there's no fear,

414
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: if there's unconditional love, if you're reunited with those you've loved,

415
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: I can understand that. Oh no, I'm happy right here,

416
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: that's right. Yes, absolutely, do people claim that their loved

417
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: ones look the same. I've heard people say that they're younger.

418
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's right, they are they Sometimes, you know, if

419
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: they've had an ailment, or they had illness prior to

420
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: their death, and perhaps they've lost a lot of weight

421
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: and everything. Well, they say that when they see them

422
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: in the vision type form, they've completely changed. They look younger,

423
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: they look radiant, they look healthy, and they look happy.

424
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: And one of the patients in my study, actually he

425
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: had a very interesting experience for two different reasons. Now,

426
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: he met up with a dead relative and he said

427
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: that she looked really lovely, she looked really happy, and

428
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: she looked radiant. And what was really interesting about his

429
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: experience is that she said, you've got to go back now.

430
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: It's it's not your time. You're the head of the family.

431
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: You've got to go back. But when you go back,

432
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: can you give this message to a living relative. So

433
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: when the patient revived, he gave this message to the

434
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: living relative and she was absolutely the astounded that he

435
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: should know this information. It was something that she had

436
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: gone to great lengths to keep a secret from him.

437
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: Yet he found out this information during a time when

438
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: he was deeply unconscious. So that's something that we can't

439
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: really understand so something profound happened during that time when

440
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: he was unconscious, and he gained information in ways other

441
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: than through the senses. So that to me was a

442
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: really important case. Penny, I was just talking not too

443
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: long ago on one of the shows about a man

444
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: who kept having dreams. It wasn't a near death experience,

445
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: but it was after his father passed and he kept

446
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: having dreams that his dad had come to him and

447
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: told him that he had five thousand dollars in cash

448
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: hidden in his top dresser drawer. And sure enough, when

449
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: the man opened the top dresser drawer, dad had a

450
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: stack of magazines and in one of the bottom magazines

451
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: he opened it up, there was an envelope with five

452
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash. So it's absolutely amazing what can

453
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: come from experiences from the beyond. So let's go into

454
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: our next break and when we come back, we'll see

455
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: what other things you have in store for his Peggy.

456
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I

457
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network,

458
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: the best afterlife information you can get. Well, You're Shades

459
00:26:52,240 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sander Champlaine Welcome back to Shades

460
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain and we are with

461
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: Dr Penny's or Tori, talking about near death experiences. Penny,

462
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: from all the research you've done over all these years,

463
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: what happens physically in the afterlife? Do we still have

464
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: our five senses? Can we still here and smell and

465
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: taste and can we hug? Yes? Some people do, Um.

466
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: Some people have had these experiences, not in my hospital research,

467
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: but people who have written to me over the years.

468
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: They have described actually hugging loved ones. And you know,

469
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: I've I've I've asked them does it feel real, like

470
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: a solid person, and they some of them have said, yes,

471
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: it does feel solid. Some people can smell smells associated

472
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: with them, like, for example, their favorite perfumes or flowers

473
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: that they particularly like, and in fact, this is quite

474
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: common in something called after death communications, and that is

475
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: another thing that interests me. UM. Some people have reported

476
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: having they can actually see their deceased loved ones, They

477
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: can feel them, they can smell their perfume. They may

478
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: get something symbolic as well, something like seeing a butterfly

479
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: out of season or a rainbow, something that has significance

480
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: to someone and it often gives the person then great

481
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: comfort knowing that they loved one is kind of given

482
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: some sort of message for that to them as well.

483
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: I think it's easy for the skeptical mind to justify

484
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: that that's not possible. I'll tell you what, I think.

485
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Our minds here on Earth really can be our worst

486
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: enemies sometimes, you know, we can find evidence for whatever

487
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: it is we want to believe in. And you know

488
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: what I like to remind people is around us is

489
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: this miraculous world. You're in the UK, I'm in the

490
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: United States, and we are able to speak without any

491
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: wires connecting us right now. You know, I have nothing

492
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: connected to my computer, and somehow we're connecting. We have

493
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: around us this virtual world called the Internet, and we're

494
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: able to pick up wirelessly in this invisible world. And

495
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: it's my personal belief that if this invisible world can

496
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: be real, heaven can also be real with our loved

497
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: ones existing in a place just invisible to our eyes,

498
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: but that they're there. So we need to sometimes get

499
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: out of our own thinking that you need to be

500
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: able to see it, feel it here it, smell it,

501
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: or touch it for it to be real. When around

502
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: us there are some invisible things that are very very real. Yeah,

503
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of just don't understand these things,

504
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: you know, So it's it's no reason to discredit them

505
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: because they do have a powerful effect on the grieving

506
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: process that from you or so, Yeah, I think, you know,

507
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of their therapeutic benefits to these experiences,

508
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: and it would be wise to take more notice of them. Really,

509
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: would you speak a little bit about that, maybe what

510
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: you feel the difference would be After studying near death

511
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: experiences and the grieving process, I think what we need

512
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: to do really is incorporate these into our education because

513
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: there are so many people who are kind of skeptical

514
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: or not necessarily skeptically. They just have preconceptions that they

515
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: know that these are hallucinations and that's all it is.

516
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: But it's not. You know, those are my preconceptions before

517
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: I started my research, and yeah, and and doing my

518
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: research is has just opened my eyes because I've witnessed

519
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: things during my role as a nurse looking after patients

520
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: who are dying. And I think we really do need

521
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: to take more notice of these, and I think people

522
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: are taking them on board now, they are noticing them

523
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: more and I think like grief counselors, for example, they

524
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: do recognize the therapeutic benefits of understanding near death experiences.

525
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: And I know a friend of mine was going to

526
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: grief therapy and her counselor had suggested that she read

527
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences, and she did this, and

528
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: they did have a big effect on her grieving process.

529
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: It did help with it, you know, it did help

530
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: her to work through that loss of her loved one.

531
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: So I think it is important that we take notice

532
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: of these. Yes, I do too. Any words from those

533
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: that have experienced the near death experiences or people that

534
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: have written to you about what they feel. The reason

535
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: for life is life here on earth. It's almost as

536
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: if we kind of developing and growing ourselves, really, you know,

537
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: it's it's about growth of our true self and having

538
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: different experiences so that we learn from these experiences and

539
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: we can be the best person who were meant to be. Really,

540
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Has there been anybody who or any commonalities

541
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: of how they described whether they call it have then

542
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: or they hereafter, Well, they tend they tend to be

543
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: influenced really by the person's upbringing and their culture, and

544
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: so a lot of people kind of they followed the

545
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: same themes, but it's mainly the things that are in

546
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: the person's cultural background and their upbringing. So for example,

547
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: people in the West are more likely to see images

548
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: of Christ or beautiful gardens with lush green grass, vividly

549
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,959
Speaker 1: colored flowers, and perhaps people in places like the Philippines.

550
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: A colleague of mine her grandmother had a very deep

551
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: near death experience many years ago, and she said that

552
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: she had an arduous journey up a big mountain and

553
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: it was very difficult. It was a struggle to get

554
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: to the top. But when she got to the top,

555
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: she met this man and he had a white flowing

556
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: robe on and it was a wonderful experience and it

557
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: completely changed her life, you know. So there are differences

558
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: according to the culture of the person. And for example,

559
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: people in India they report seeing a man called Chit

560
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: who is the man with the book, and it's a

561
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: book of the deeds, and it's the deeds of their

562
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: life kind of thing, almost very similar to the Life

563
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: review in in some respects as well. So so there

564
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: are very much cultural influences in how this experience is perceived.

565
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: And again, you know, even young children have these experiences,

566
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: and that particularly interests me because they have no preconceptions

567
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: of death, you know, they don't know, and they haven't

568
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: they don't discuss death. And one case, a particular least

569
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: sticks in my mind. It features in my book The

570
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Is a young boy and

571
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: his dad was working in the army base in Germany

572
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: and his little boy got seriously unwell, had to go

573
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: to the operating room for emergency surgery, and while in

574
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: the operating room, he had a cardiac arrest and luckily

575
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: he recovered. He was resuscitated and he recovered, and a

576
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: few months later his father wrote this letter to me

577
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: said I couldn't under couldn't believe this when he said it,

578
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: But he said, I was very shocked because I said

579
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: to him on my day off, what you want to do?

580
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: Should we go somewhere? And his son said, yes, I

581
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: want to go to the park. And his father said

582
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: that there was no park around. You know, he'd never

583
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: taken his send to the park in Germany. So he said, well,

584
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: what park are you talking about? And he said the

585
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: park that I went to when I was in the hospital.

586
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: I had to get to it. I had to go

587
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: through that tunnel to get into the park. And when

588
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: I was in the park, there was a white picket

589
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: fence and he said, I tried to climb over the fence,

590
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: but there was a man standing behind the fence and

591
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: he said, no, you've got to go back. You can't

592
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: come in. And he said, I went back down the

593
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: tunnel and I ended back in the hospital. Oh that's beautiful,

594
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's a young boy. You know,

595
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: how how can they have that kind of preakness? So

596
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: they can't. I had spoken with a man who was

597
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: feeling a lot of guilt that he wasn't watching his son,

598
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: and his son got into a lake and ended up drowning,

599
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: and then he was revived and I met him. I

600
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: met this man on an airplane. But what had happened

601
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: is when the sun woke up in the hospital, he

602
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: was happy to see his father, and his father was saying,

603
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: you know what happened, And the little boy wanted to

604
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: try to swim, is what happened, even though he was

605
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: too young to swim. But he said, well what happened?

606
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: He says, Well, then I swallowed water, and then he

607
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: described how he floated up and he looked down on

608
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: the water and he says the big face was there,

609
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: and the big face said it would be okay in

610
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: big bright face, and that it wasn't time I had

611
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: to go back to you, daddy, you know, and I

612
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: just beautiful Penny. Has anybody reported like a hell or

613
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: negativity or you know what, I'm asking the violence that

614
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: the bad stuff. Some people do get these, and it's

615
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 1: a it's a very small minority of the near death experience,

616
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: possibly depending on what research you look at, probably around

617
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: about fourteen percent, So it's a very small number that

618
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: people do get this, and these can be very traumatic

619
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: for people as well. There's very in different degrees of

620
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: the distressing kind of experiences. The first type is where

621
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: the person sort of interprets that they have the prototypical

622
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: near death experience of going down the tunnel towards the

623
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: light and meeting deceased relatives, but it's usually interpreted in

624
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: a frightening way. Then you get the second type, which

625
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: is described as like a void experience, where the person

626
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: feels like they're in this eternal, meaningless void. And then

627
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: you get the third type, which is very distressing, where

628
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: people feel that they're in hell or looking into hell,

629
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: and that is very traumatic impact. A lot of people

630
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: won't talk about it. So it's very difficult to research

631
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: these experiences because they have such a profound and traumatic

632
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: effect on people that they don't really want to recall

633
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 1: them and they don't want to share them. And in fact,

634
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: some people feel like there's a stigma involved with it

635
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: and say, why why did I have this unpleasant experience

636
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: when so many people have a lovely experience? What have

637
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: I gen wrong in my life? And so I think

638
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: we certainly do need to do more research to understand

639
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: these so that we can support these people. But what

640
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: I've noticed as well from my research is that some

641
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: people they start off having this kind of distressing experience,

642
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: but if they relax into it, it often turns into

643
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: a very pleasant experience. So I can start off unpleasant,

644
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: but it can then turn into a really wonderful, beautiful experience.

645
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: I talked to one man, Penny, who tried to end

646
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: his own life, and he experienced and not pleasant, but

647
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: almost that scary hell kind of feeling. What he took

648
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: back with him was not the feeling that the afterlife

649
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: was scary, but more so that it scared him enough

650
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: to not try to do this again. So I think

651
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: there's a like a higher intelligence going on, and maybe

652
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: our minds are still connected because that silver cord has

653
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: not yet been cut. And then I also talked to

654
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: another man who didn't lead a very good life, and

655
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: he wasn't a very nice person, and he really experienced

656
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: the darkness and fear and all those things, and instinctively

657
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 1: he started to pray, and the white light that he saw,

658
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: this little pin prick turned brighter and brighter and brighter

659
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: and brighter, and so eventually he was filled with unconditional love.

660
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: So the experience might be different for other people. And

661
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: I do think there's a higher intelligence involved. I guess

662
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: it's the best I can call it. So we need

663
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: to take our last break, and then when we come back, Penny,

664
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: who knows where we're gonna go, we'll find out more

665
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: about your stories. We'll be back in just a minute.

666
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I

667
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.

668
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: The Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children

669
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: to a world of information, experiences, and ideas, and also

670
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: can expose them to risk teach your children the basic

671
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: safety rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything.

672
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: Do everything for them. Okay, folks, we need your music. Hey,

673
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast AM and every

674
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: first Sunday of the month, we play music from emerging

675
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: artists just like you. If you're a musician or a

676
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: singer and have recorded music you'd like to submit, it's

677
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: very easy. Just go to Coast to Coast am dot com,

678
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: click the emerging Artists banner in the carousel, follow the

679
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: instructions and we just might play your music on the air.

680
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: Go now to Coast to Coast am dot com to

681
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: send us your recording. That's Coast to Coast am dot com.

682
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain

683
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: and we are with Dr Penny sar Tory, author of

684
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: the book The Wisdom of Near Death Experiences. Penny, do

685
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: you find with people that there's a commonality when they

686
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: come back after experiencing a near death experience that they

687
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: want to live a better life? Oh, definitely yes. It's

688
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: it's all about being of service to other people and

689
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: they realize that into connectivity, that unity, and basically they

690
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: have a wonderful message, which is like treat others as

691
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: you would wish to be treated yourself. And it's not

692
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: just something that they say, they actually live by that

693
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: as well. You know, the their actions are very mindful

694
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: towards other people. They're very compassionate as well. As a

695
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: result of the experience, they're more tolerant, they're more loving,

696
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: they're very much changed as a result of the experience. Wow,

697
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: and I love what you say that by sharing your research,

698
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: it is possible for people to live this kind of

699
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: life now as opposed to having to have a car

700
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: accident or actually having a near death experience. That it's

701
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: possible to live this now. Absolutely yes, And you know

702
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: there's so many experiences so we could do all of these.

703
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: Take a heat of what these people are saying, and

704
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: even by acting like this being kind to other people.

705
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: There's so much research out out there to show that

706
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: how being kind to other people has a very positive

707
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: effect on our health as well. So you know, I

708
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: think it's it's a really important thing to take on board.

709
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned that about health. I've heard that before.

710
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 1: And also I love watching or reading about stories where

711
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: people make a difference with other people, or when people

712
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: find their passion or they achieve a dream. There is

713
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: this sense of joy and inspiration that fills me, and

714
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: I get the feeling of having like the goose bumps

715
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: or goose pimples you might call them. But I can

716
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: only assume that that good feeling has to be producing

717
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: some good chemical something in my in my body. You know,

718
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: it just has to be because it feels so good.

719
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we know the the benefits of laughter on

720
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: the system, so I would think making a difference like

721
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: that would also. Absolutely. There's so many studies out there,

722
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: you know. I teach a course at the university and

723
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: it kind of touches on these things. How science, spirituality

724
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: and health all blend into one, you know. And I

725
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: think understanding about the effects that we have on the

726
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: people through our actions can really impact on our health

727
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: as well. And I think being kind and compassionate and

728
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: living towards others is ultimately being a benefit to ourselves

729
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: as well. And it feels good, absolutely, yes. So Penny,

730
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: where is your passion right now? I mean, what are

731
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: you interested in studying? Learning? Sharing wealth? What makes you

732
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: have these experiences? You know, I've learned so much from

733
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: these people, and when my book came out, I've just

734
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: been receiving so many hundreds of emails every day. For

735
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: the first week or so, I had about two hundred

736
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: emails a day. Now it's kind of tailed off to

737
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: about sort of maybe a hundred emails a week now,

738
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: but that's still an incredible amount of emails. Oh my goodness.

739
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: It is that there's just so many people out there

740
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: we've had this experience, and it's almost as if they

741
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: feel like they've had permission to talk about it now.

742
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: You know, I really want to do more with this

743
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: work because that's where my passion is. You know, it's

744
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: completely gripped my life and it's really changed the way

745
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: I lived my life, and so I want to do

746
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: more with this. That's why I that have gave up

747
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: nursince so that I can concentrate on these experiences and

748
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: do more with this research. Well, I will definitely be

749
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: your partner and sharing your book with as many people

750
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: as I can, because I think there are so many

751
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: people that may have had an experience, or even if

752
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: they didn't have a near death experience, I think very

753
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: often people have had an experience that they might have

754
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: known who was on the telephone before the phone started ringing,

755
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: or have had some synchronicities, or just or have had

756
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: a visitation and a dream from a loved one, or

757
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: maybe we're with a loved one when they passed away.

758
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: But there's something that's told them that life is more

759
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: than meets the eye. And unfortunately, and a lot of

760
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: our culture, we don't talk about it, so it's kind

761
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: of a taboo thing. But meanwhile, so many people believe,

762
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 1: and it's people like you and me and so many

763
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: of the others that are saying, hey, this is regular,

764
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: this is real, and it's allowing people to listen and

765
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: then to share. Penny. When when I first approached the

766
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: publisher that I wanted to write a book called We

767
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: Don't Die, I was scared to death that this man

768
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: would think I am crazy. And also when I told

769
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: my friends and family that this is the book, I

770
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: thought everybody would outcast me. I thought there'd be nobody

771
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: that wanted to buy it, and that I would live

772
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: a hermit for the rest of my life. And that's

773
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: how crippling fear can be. And then of course the

774
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: flip side happened. Everybody's interested and it's become easy for

775
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: me to share. I may not be something for everybody,

776
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: but that's okay, I say it, you know, with honoring

777
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: people who they are. But if more people could not

778
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: have the fear of what will people think if, you know,

779
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: if they knew that I believed in this and I

780
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: and I really applaud you for being someone who's acted

781
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: like studying and sharing making a difference with others. And

782
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: I think you probably live a good life, don't you. Yes,

783
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: certainly do, especially since doing this research. And it's interesting

784
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: that you should mention about fear because having done this

785
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: research has really made me overcome one of my biggest fears,

786
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: which is speaking publicly. And it was a huge fear

787
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: for me and I used to shake the first time.

788
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: As I used to do it, I'd be on stage

789
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: and I'd be physically shaken. I was that afraid of it.

790
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: And having done this research now it's made me so

791
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: passionate about the research that I'm not afraid of public

792
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 1: speaking anymore. Congratulations. But you know, there's, like Mary Anne

793
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: Williamson says, you know, we can live out of fear,

794
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: or you can live out of love. And when you

795
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: live out of love, everything kind of goes the right way,

796
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: then yes. And when you look at other people around

797
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: and you just know it's just another one of you

798
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: sitting over there, that we don't really have to be

799
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: afraid of others. Every single one of us has our

800
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: own hopes and dreams and fear years and so all

801
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: around you is just more people just like you, Penny.

802
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: Our time is coming to an end. But I want

803
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: to just ask, is there anything left unsaid or anything

804
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: just sprung to mind? Is that also as well? Something

805
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: that we don't really realize is that people have more

806
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: control over the time that they die than what we realized.

807
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: And I noticed this a lot when I worked in

808
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: the I c U, and that sometimes we had patients

809
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: who maybe would hang on until a relative had traveled

810
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: a great distance to come and meet them, had to

811
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: come and see them, and and then after the relative arrived,

812
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: they would die shortly afterwards. And some people as well,

813
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: what I found was they would even wait for the

814
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: family to leave the room before they died. So it's

815
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: a very unique experience. And there were many patients where

816
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: the family had just kind of gone to the canteen

817
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: for a quick coffee, and as soon as the family

818
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: had left, the patient rapidly deteriorated. Even many times I

819
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: had to run down to the canteen to get the

820
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: family back, and during that time the patient had actually died.

821
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 1: And so it's a very unique experience and it's down

822
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: to us as individuals, and I think we have more

823
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: control over that time than what we realize. As well.

824
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: That made me think about there was a nurse that

825
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: I had spoke to that she said she'd open a

826
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: window and often that that would make a difference with

827
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: someone suffering that it was okay to let go. Yes,

828
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: that's right, that's quite common. Really, we often do that,

829
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: and even when a patient had died, we swopen the

830
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: windows as well. It's almost like a tradition as well

831
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: amongst some nurses. That is so beautiful. I know you're

832
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: thousands of miles away, but just imagine that I'm giving

833
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: you a big virtual hug. Thank you, thank you, thank you,

834
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,720
Speaker 1: thank you really for just giving your life, for making

835
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: a difference, whether it's being a nursing or now being

836
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: one of the very few people that have taken the

837
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 1: time to do all of this research and to share

838
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: it so genuinely in a way that just makes a

839
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: difference for other people. Penny, it just extraordinary. You will

840
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: never ever well, no, let me take that back. What

841
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: I was going to say is you'll never see the

842
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: difference that you've made with so many lives. But I'm

843
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: taking that back because my prayer is that when you

844
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: have your life review, you see the ripple effect of

845
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: the difference that you've made with thousands and may then

846
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: it might be millions of people that they are able

847
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: to have a better life now and their family have

848
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: a better life, better relationships and just a wonderful you know,

849
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: create a little bit of heaven on earth. So thank you, oh,

850
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: thank you, Sandra. That's a beautiful thing to say. You're

851
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: You're welcome. And now to find out more about you,

852
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: you have the website Dr Penny sar Tory dot com.

853
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: That's correct, excellent, And I just ask if this interview

854
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: has made a difference for you today, would you take

855
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: one step and it might be in fear, and just

856
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: share it with someone that you know that might make

857
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: it might make a difference for And sometimes it's hard

858
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: to approach the subject if you believe in life after

859
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: death or this has inspired you, but just say, hey,

860
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: I listened to something really great today. I don't know

861
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: if you'd be interested in it, but have you heard

862
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: about near death experiences? This fabulous nurse Dr Penny star

863
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Tory has done all these studies and wow, I think

864
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: you might really be interested in that. And sometimes just

865
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: opening the door like that, somebody will say, yeah, that

866
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: sounds great or no, that's not really my thing. But

867
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: if you feel inspired to do so, I ask that

868
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 1: you share. I know I certainly will, so, Penny, thank

869
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: you again, thank you for taking the time to be here. Oh,

870
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: thank you, Sandra, and keep up the great way. I

871
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: definitely will. And for our listener, our home basis we

872
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: Don't Die dot com and there's so many things happening,

873
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, I said the beginning. Our movie premiere will

874
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: be coming out in February, so keep an eye on

875
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: the website. I'll be sure to let you know about that.

876
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: On the bottom of the main page, you can join

877
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: my email list and that will let you know everything

878
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: that's going on. We keep in touch every week with

879
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: a newsletter, and we have online courses and medium demonstrations.

880
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: Are world famous Sunday gathering that couldn't be more inspirational

881
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: and motivating. Plus there's a free medium, reading within each

882
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: and everyone, and remember it's tough being human. No matter

883
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: what we figure out or discover about the afterlife, our

884
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: minds our egos want to convince us that it's not real.

885
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: So that's why it's important to continue listening to empowering things,

886
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: talking to empowering people, reading empowering books, and trust that

887
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: there's so much of a bigger picture that you or

888
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: I can't possibly know. But our loved ones are around us,

889
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: They're cheering us on. We will see them again. Our

890
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: life is for a purpose, So dig deep into what

891
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: you're passionate about, start doing it, start sharing it. Ask

892
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: for support if you need it. So in closing, my

893
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: name is Sandra Champlain and I'm always so happy to

894
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: be your host. You've been listening to Shades of the

895
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast AM

896
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks again, and if you like this

897
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until you hear

898
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: the next one. Thank you for listening to the I

899
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m Paranormal Podcast Network.