WEBVTT - Fed’s Daly Sets High Bar for Slowing Policy Pace 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.760 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, so much for the 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.360 recent upbeat change in the stock market sentiment that two 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.000 day equity rallies we just talked about here in the 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.760 United States with Abigail really coming to an handle, though 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:41.640 we're definitely off our loads of this session thanks to 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.760 hot economic data pouring cold water on investor thinking that 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.800 the global monetary tightening cycle was close to peaking, and 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.400 we did feel like pigpiling on that thinking was the 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.720 president of San Francisco fed Mary Daily, who stopped by 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.560 Bloomberg headquarters. She caught up with our own Bloomberg News 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.720 International Economics and Policy correspondent Michael McKee, who joins us 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.560 here in our Interactive Brokers studio. And so we are 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.960 all talking pivot and yet well we had to ask 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:15.399 her about pivot because that's what's the main topic in 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.880 the markets. It's interesting because we've seen markets get very 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.240 schizophrenic about this. One week, they think the FED is 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.560 going to cut back. Just last week, the FED was 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.520 not going to cut rates at all. And now you've 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.720 got a rate cut priced in starting in March. And hey, 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.119 so I asked Mary Daily about that and uh, and 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.600 the graph you can see on the w I r 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.160 P function, the bar chart that shows these rate cuts, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.520 and she said, I'm not going to happen. Well, she's 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.480 one of these classic data dependent FED non voting member 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.320 this year voting member. But she's basically saying, look at 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.720 core inflation, core inflation, it's pointing the wrong way. We're 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.680 accelerating July to August, and we will get September a 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.480 later date. That's a point where, isn't it. Yeah, here's 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.480 what you said. I don't see that happening at all. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.480 I see us as raising to a level that we 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.079 believe is restrictive enough to bring inflation down and then 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.680 holding it there until we see inflation truly get close 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.720 to two percent and and demonstrate that price stability is restored. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.079 So basically, Mary Dale, president of San Francisco, FETs so basically, 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:29.080 stop it, right, everybody. Yeah, I've actually been warning us. 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.880 Every time we've said it. You're like, no, there's no pivot. Yeah, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:36.080 there's no pivot. And I asked her if we debate 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:41.600 constantly for what they're gonna do with the next meeting. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:43.079 And I asked her about that, and she said, it's 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.920 not how much we do at each meeting, it's where 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.880 we get to and then how long it stays there. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.680 She wants the the terminal FED funds rate. She thinks 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.680 it's gonna be somewhere between four and a half and 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.720 five percent, and that they're going to try to get 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.639 to percent by the end of this year and then 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.760 they leave it there until they see significant progress. Uh, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.520 if inflation should collapse, then maybe we do get a pivot. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:17.960 She talks about being nimble. I think, yeah, nimble, but resolute. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.519 And she said, you know, people, I go out to Boise, Idaho, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.560 and people don't know what I mean. By that, and 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.600 she said, we are focused on bringing inflation down. That 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.000 is what we're going to do. But how we do it. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.760 We can be nimble and we can react. You know, 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.040 if there's some issue in the economy, we don't have 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.000 to raise rates as fast, or we don't have to 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.560 raise rates that month or whatever. It's just going to 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.480 be a question of keeping an eye on the economy, 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.240 but also keeping your eye on the main goal, which 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:45.400 is bringing down inflation. So we know you had to 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.680 ask about the pivot because of the rally that you've seen, 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.840 certainly in the equity markets. But what was top of 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.080 mind for you, Mike, who follows this day in and 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.559 day out. Well, I think that was the biggest Uh. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.760 The idea that she communicated, the idea that no, we're 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.840 not we're not watching the markets for signals for what 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.920 we're going to do, We're watching inflation. Uh. She said, Basically, 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.600 what the Fed wants to see, and this is something 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.440 to keep in mind for Friday, is the economy moderating. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:19.760 That we see jobs, job gains start to slow down, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.640 and we see inflation, particularly core inflation, start to slow down. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:30.000 It doesn't go away immediately, but you see a process underway, 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.760 and then they'll know they're doing the right thing and 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:37.039 then they can um sort of stop where they are 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.120 and leave it where they are until they see there's 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.720 enough restraint on the economy to get this inflation problem 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.320 out of the way. So today's economic data, how does 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.560 that play into the thought? Uh, you know, it kind 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.800 of goes against the idea that she was talking about 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.120 the the I S M Services numbers today, but she 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.480 did point out the Jolts numbers yesterday. She said she's 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.039 been talking to corporations all over the West Big District 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.039 and they've been saying that they are cutting back on 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.039 their hiring and in many cases and ed you know 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.920 this better than anybody, the tech companies are just they're 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.080 not gonna hire anymore this year. They're done, and some 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.120 of them are actually talking about some layoffs. Uh. She said. 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.640 What happens is the companies go to these online firms 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:27.080 with resident post resumes and job openings, and they signed 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.840 a three month contract and they don't say, all right, 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.360 call the firm up and cancel a contract a month early. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.520 They just let it run out, which is why job 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.240 postings have remained high. And she said she thinks they've 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.120 been telling her for months that this is going to happen. 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.839 She thinks that's what we saw in yesterday's data, that 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.760 the companies are seriously starting to slow down on their hiring. Uh. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.040 And concomminately, she said, don't look at jobless claims because 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.800 that's the last thing that's going to happen in this economy. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.120 There's still so many openings that nobody's talking about layoffs. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.800 They're just talking about not hiring. You've been very kind 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:04.680 over the is to take me to meet Mary Daily, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.360 and she's one of these sort of Fed Inaction type figures. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.640 She goes out into the real world and she seems 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.360 to be saying, here, we recognize the pain of everyday Americans, 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.560 but they also need to know that the FED is, 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.120 as you said, resolute in fighting inflation, not necessarily listening 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.479 to their pain and how they decided to take action. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.600 She talks about going to a Walmart in the San 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.240 Francisco Bay area, um, just just in a sweatshirt and jeans. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.280 She told them she was an economist, but she didn't 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.880 tell them who she was, and she walked around interviewing 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:39.359 customers and they all said they're much more worried about 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.080 inflation than they are about jobs. More worried about inflation 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.240 rather than jobs. All right, great reporting has always in 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.520 a great interview Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy Correspondent 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:53.479 Michael McKee on Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.640 with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stenovic on 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.599 Bloomberg Radio. We mentioned as headlines that the judge in 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.320 the Elon Musk Twitter trial saying she hasn't received any 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.479 filing yet to halt the case. Uh, and that's that 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.320 October seventeenth trial is still on for now. So I 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.520 feel like Ed La Loow, you've been covering this story. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.240 You're here the editor Bloomberg Business Week, also in our studio. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.040 It's a story that keeps on giving, just when we 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.240 think we're getting to an end. Yeah. I mean, as 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:22.840 it stands, I'm still off to Delaware. But what I 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.440 would say is language is important. Right, So must said, 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.560 you know what, I will buy Twitter for fifty four 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.320 dollars twenty cents to share? What did Twitter say? Twitter said, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.040 we're committed to closing the deal at fifty four dollars 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.160 twenty cents to share nowhere did they say we accept 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.000 your re offer, Mr Musk. You know, so we've been 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.360 waiting to see what they'll do, whether they drop proceedings 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.560 against him, and now we know they are yet to 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.120 do so. All right, we also want to bring in 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:47.640 and we mentioned to Ael Webber is with us the 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.840 editor of Bloomberg Business Week. So too is Bloomberg Sarah Fryer, 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.240 who's writing about Elan's turnabout as well. She's Bloomberg News 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.960 Big Tech team leader, author of No Filter, the inside 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.160 story of of Instagram. Excuse me, she joins us on 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.720 the phone from San Francisco. But Uh, Jill, I mean, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:04.960 if you had to put this story to bed, what 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.800 would you do right now? You call, you call Sarah, 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.520 you say, what's going on? Um? Uh, there's a piece 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.040 of art that we commissioned to go with Sarah's story 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.440 that is the art of the moment. It's a tesla 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.400 covered in bird poop. Um and uh, it's awesome and 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.760 it's perfect. In the headline. My headline for it is 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.240 Twitter's turn And I think you know, and I think 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.040 this is also, um what what Sarah ultimately rights here is. 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.240 For a while, it's been sort of like, who's actually 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.719 in charge right here? Who who's Who's who got the 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.760 high ground? And I think what this shows is that 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.200 Twitter now officially has the high ground. Um. So Sarah 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.680 talked to us about how you expressed that idea. Well, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.800 I think about what Elon Musk is offering here is 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.880 what he's already offered. He's already said that he would 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.000 the company for ford for a billion. This doesn't give 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.240 Twitter anything that they didn't already have. So they have 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.040 no reason to take him out as a word, because 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.800 let's look at how his word has has happened, you 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.160 know how, It's how it's resulted in prior occasions. Right, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.520 he said he would join Twitter's board, and then he 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.000 reneged on that shortly thereafter, um, when he got in 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.880 an argument, and and then he said he would buy 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.600 the company, and then a couple of weeks later he 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.439 said he wouldn't. So I think that Twitter really has 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.600 no reason to trust him. And I don't see a 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.440 scenario where they are going to, um just take take 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.800 this new offer and call it a day. I think 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.640 that they're they're going to be really careful and and 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.800 and um, you know, if they're wise that keep keep 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.839 the lawyers involved. So the alternative headline doesn't go quite 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.720 as well with the image that I proposed. But show 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:57.600 me the money, right, absolutely, I mean I think that 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.760 that is that's really the ticket here. I mean, we 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:05.280 know the funding is in place. Um, we know that 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.600 that everything is is as it should be. Um to 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.240 close the deal. Um, nothing has really changed on that front. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.600 What has changed. It's been a you know, particularly embarrassing 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.160 a few weeks for Elon Musk. Is private text messages 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:26.120 have become public. Um, he's he's a table read of 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.559 all of those text messages. There are just for like 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.360 go through a mall, but anyway, go ahead. Oh my goodness, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.720 there's so many gems. But but yeah, I think I 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.760 think there's that. But you know, he he is is. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.560 I talked to a lawyer today who said the most 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.400 cynical view of this, this move from Elon Musk is 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.960 that he is maybe trying to trying to pressure Twitter 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.920 publicly into dropping the suit and then he might still 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.200 not buy Twitter, and it might um, you know, find 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.200 another another reason to like one of these stories, Joel, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.680 where you're like, this cannot get any more weird, and 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.280 you walk into work on a Tuesday, and suddenly it 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.320 gets more weird. But it is Sarah's point. We learned 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.520 a lot from the discovery process. The text messages you 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.800 wonder what we didn't learn, And this is part of 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.320 our Bloomberg reporting what we we have found. If that 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.520 deposition goes ahead and then it's filed as evidence, Joel 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.959 later in the week, if the trial happens, perhaps you'd 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:24.960 like to go to Delaware for us and find out 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:26.640 well as its stands. As I say, I am going 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.280 to Delaware. But I mean, and look like this. This 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.160 is why it's like the best business story of the year. 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.480 I mean, you think about where this started. I mean 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.160 think about and you know, Matt Levine wrote this in 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.240 his newsletter today, money stuff that you know, just from 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.800 a money standpoint, like Morgan Stanley, this does not look 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.920 good for Morgan Stanley the and you know, when when 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.920 all this was proposed, it all sounded great and like 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.600 we were in a completely different economic environment. Now he's 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.559 in terms of the financing talking about the debt here right, 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.680 that must lined up as part of his funding for 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.679 the deer. And and so I think the conversation is 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.959 um and how much bashing, you know, Twitter hasn't has 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.920 endured here and you know, ultimately, Sarah, I thought the 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.640 most interesting thing of that you had in the remarks 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.160 ultimately is this scene that you you culminate with, which 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.520 is this conversation that's happening at Twitter. Well, when this 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:25.160 news happens, right, we'll take us there. So at Twitter, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.400 in my colleague Kurt Wagner, UM has many sources, sources 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.840 of the company, and he found that they were listening 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.800 of all things, to presentations from teams on our plan, 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:41.880 which if this deal goes through, a total waste of time, UM, 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.559 because Elon Musk has very different ideas about how to 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:49.200 run Twitter. And what's interesting was you nobody really stopped 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.240 to acknowledge that this news had just gone by. And 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.480 I think that this is just a company that's used 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.040 to being in limbo. This is this is UM you know, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.360 always they're always finding themselves at the center of some 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.320 dramma or other. They have they've had activists on their board, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:10.679 they've shuffled through leaders, they've they've been in UM you know, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.600 acquisition flirtations in the past. So I think that these 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:19.000 employees they're they're also UM. You think they can they 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.840 can complain on slack or or make means of the situation. 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.680 But I do think that, um, you know, these really 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.240 big decisions are are probably gonna wait until we actually 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.800 know the rayon must in this company. Yeah. I was 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.800 told by a sore Sarah, as you know that in 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.920 the first fifteen minutes of that meeting, paragagrole, the CEO 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.200 of Twitter, made a presentation and then disappeared from the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.280 meeting and for two or three hours, employees sat there 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.360 while the news was breaking all around them and nothing, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.040 you know, there was silence, you know, Sarah, what happens 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.240 next very quickly? Well, I think we have to see 0:13:55.280 --> 0:14:00.000 what how Twitter respond. And the two sides were talking today. Um, 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.720 whether an agreement will come out of that, we might 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.920 hear today, we might not. Um. The judges says she 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.960 has not received the filing for a request to stay 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.719 in the case, So that means that, um, you know, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.240 things are not all settled. Um, we we still have 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.240 some Twitter clearly still have some some you know, discussions 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.400 they need to have to be to their satisfaction. It's 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.680 like an episode of Billions. Oh, I mean, let's have 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:32.280 our own show about Way Past the Fall. My my 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:38.560 most favorite thing here is Delaware. Yeah, Delaware, alright, Sarta Fire, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.280 thank you so much. As always big tech team leader 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.840 Bloomberg News, also author of No Filter, the inside story 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.800 of Instagram. These are the remarks this week Mars indeed 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.280 alright in upcoming issue of the magazine. Of course, that 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.760 was the voice of the editor of Blomberg Business Week, Weber. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:59.360 This is Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.200 Carol mat Sure and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.600 Bloomberg Radio. As we've talked about, I just got to 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.960 pull up actually Twitter because with the market turnaround, I 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:10.560 just want to see what Twitter is doing. Still down 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.880 about one percent because there's still some uncertainty whether or 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.560 not Elon Musk will cross the finish line when it 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.440 comes to buying the company. Meantime, I love this, Ellen, Ellen. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.200 I feel like um Ed is flashing that new shiny 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.840 thing which he is good about doing, and it's called 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.240 what X the everything app Yeah. I mean we always 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.040 talk about this in the context of Tesla, right, that 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.520 one of his skills is keeping everyone looking to the horizon, 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.240 forget what's happening right now, you know, look away, look away, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.200 from honestly X. What is X? I don't know? Do 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.960 you know? Does our next guests? No? I guess we 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.680 should find out. All right, Tom Giles, come on in, 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.560 an executive editor of Bloomberg Technology. He's with us from 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.320 our San Francisco beer. All right, Tom, it's so great 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.520 to have you here, the three of us. Uh, fun conversation. 0:15:55.600 --> 0:16:01.520 So what is X? Well, based on yesterday's tweet, he's 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.760 calling it X the everything app. It makes me think 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.800 of the everything store, right that Amazon wants to provide 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.640 all of these services and sell all of these items 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.200 to everybody in around the world. What he's talking about, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.840 what he's alluding to, is some kind of a super app. 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.040 It's a one stop shop where you can go and 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.920 do much more than what you can do on Twitter. Now. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.560 It's already a very useful tool for those of us 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:35.720 who are who are who are big Twitter users, know 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:41.360 what we're up to, um stuff we're reporting on. But 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.280 he wants to make it more useful. And one of 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.040 his one of his complaints, and he has many complaints 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.080 about Twitter, is that he wants it to be more 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.960 useful to people. And what he's what he's alluding to 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.960 is the way that companies like ten Cent in China 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.880 have used whee chat and turned it into something called 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.480 a super app. That's something like I said, at one 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.200 stop shop, where you can go and do much more 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.120 than communicate. You can you know, you can have your 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.840 your d ms with folks, you can have group chats, 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.280 but you can also do things like book cars. So 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.840 it plays plays the role of an uber. Or you 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.400 can use it to order in food. Uh so it's 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.359 your grub hub. You can use it for a whole 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.359 host of of of services. And this is something that 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.080 has taken off in parts of Asian certainly certainly gained 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.960 a lot of popularity in China where tent set is, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.640 where we chat is everywhere. And he would certainly, uh, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.200 he'd certainly love to have Twitter have that same kind 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.879 of usefulness. I mean, to me, this is logical because 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.840 I believe I'm right and saying must said he wanted 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.240 to grow twitters use a base from around two million 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.520 now to a billion, and you wonder how is he 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.400 going to get there? I mean, we use Twitter actively, 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.639 much of the press does, and the media, but you 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.520 wonder who the new audience for Twitter will be. I mean, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.520 what other concrete proposals that we have from Musk. Tom Well, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.760 he's talked about you know, he's talked about you know, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.840 he talked he's compared to TikTok and wanting there to 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.639 be more functionality in terms of the stuff that you 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:20.240 share on the blogging service. Right now, Twitter is still 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.240 very much a tool that we use for short, short 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.399 tweets that are you know, full of our words and 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.879 sometimes there's images and sometimes there's video. But it's not 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.960 a big video sharing site, um, you know, but there's 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.760 a lot of things. I mean, remember where Elon Musk 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.520 got his start, which was in payments, which is in 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.040 you know, revolutionizing the way people send and receive money. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.640 So imagine, if you will, if if he has his way, 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.000 and if he you know, can can can unleash his 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.359 engineers and get them to you know, make the products, 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.320 uh that that would make it more effective. Think about 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.200 what if what if Twitter was more of like a 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.760 pain it's company where you could use it to you know, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.040 to carry out transactions in the way that we currently 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.120 use Venmo or PayPal or some of these other services. 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.120 If you could do other you know, carry out other 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.120 financial transactions with it, Um, you know, and I mean 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.080 the other thing that the other thing that people you know, 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.280 whach tent spent is also a big entertainment purveyor of entertainment. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.840 We don't think of Twitter as being a platform for 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.240 that kind of thing. We think of that more, you know, 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.600 that's more YouTube, and to some degree even Facebook. But 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.959 uh and and obviously uh, you know, Apple and some 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.960 of the other some of the other sellers of devices 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.760 that we have. The problem that I have with this 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.119 concept of a super app is, while it has taken 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.760 off in parts of Asia, in the United States, we 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.840 become really really accustomed to having a whole slew of 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.679 apps on our phones. We're very comfortable with it. I 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.919 find it kind of clunky, and I love the idea 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.840 of something more like a super app. The problem is, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.680 we're really entrenched, and we've really become accustomed to having 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.439 you know, hundred apps on our phone and just you know, 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:10.840 scrolling right and left to get from app to app. 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.760 We've grown accustomed to it, even though it's clunky, even 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.440 though it's inconvenient. If he could revolutionize that, it would 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.320 certainly be a sea change in the way at least 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:27.639 people here in the United States use our smartphones. Yeah, 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:29.600 I mean, I agree with you. I'd love to have 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.119 like some streamlining have so many apps. But I do 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.520 wonder like, how do you move from where we are 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.199 today to kind of an aggregator to unless to some 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.760 extent where it's one stop shopping. Um, great stuff. Tom Giles, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.600 thank you so much. We always appreciate when you can 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.680 find time for us. He's Bloomberg Technology executive editor, joining 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.160 us from our San Francisco bureau. But I do kind 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.960 of a blown away again by Ellen and his ability 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.320 to get us to be having a conversation about something else. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.560 Tom leads our coverage of TACH. He leads the team, 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.560 and we're already looking to the what next. We're not 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.240 really you're what now? You know those headlines that the 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.239 trial is still going ahead. We're not done yet. We're 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:06.720 not done yet. I really want to know about that 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.920 white robot, that humanoid. Let's stick stick on topic, the 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.800 human in the body. Oh my gosh, you can't make 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.280 this stuff up. You are listening and watching Bluebirg Radio. 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:25.520 I'm bro journal now, but you let me drive? No, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:31.639 no, no no, no, please, I'll do the riding gravels. I 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:40.000 want to drive it's a good question. This is the 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:46.320 Drive to the Clothes on Bluebird Radio. All right, let's 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.240 get to it, everybody. Just about a little under ten 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.760 minutes left in today's trading session. You heard Charlie breakdown 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.879 the numbers. We're just off our highs. We're seeing a 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:55.639 little bit of selling in the last few minutes, but 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:57.800 we're definitely off our loads of the session. Call it 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.679 for the most part, unchanged, but slightly lower when it 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.320 comes to those major equity averages. So let's get to 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.680 the Drive to the clothes. Aaron Kennon is back. He's 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.320 co founder and chief executive officer at Clear Harbor Asset Management, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.320