1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: U six games.

2
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,959
Speaker 2: Get it All, Johnny, Obviously, you have a unique perspective

3
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 2: on this story, having you know, really been a part

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,640
Speaker 2: of it in terms of being a guy who went

5
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,239
Speaker 2: through you know, high school around the same time in

6
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 2: the DC area, with Land playing against him for four years,

7
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 2: you know, Duke Maryland, you know Duke Maryland games, and

8
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 2: then being.

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 1: A part of that eighty six draft.

10
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: Class, and and when you look back at at at

11
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 2: what happened and what you know, how great a player

12
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 2: he could have been.

13
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:41,480
Speaker 1: Are there are there.

14
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,920
Speaker 2: Any times where you're watching something that will remind you,

15
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,960
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, I know, they last summer at

16
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 2: ESPN did a whole three hour segment on remembering Len

17
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 2: Bias or they thought, you know, or the Last Dance.

18
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you know when you when you're

19
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,840
Speaker 2: now thirty five years thirty five years later, when you're

20
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 2: watching something reminds you of when when all that transpired,

21
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 2: whether it was the.

22
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,400
Speaker 1: High school years, the college years, or or or or

23
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 1: the draft.

24
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, there's always something that's going

25
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 3: to remind you of many, uh, you know, in today's

26
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 3: sport of course, just whether it's watching some you know,

27
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,639
Speaker 3: elite player out there excelling at the sport. You think about,

28
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 3: you know, what could have been, you know, if he

29
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,960
Speaker 3: had was able to continue his career. You think about,

30
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 3: of course the tragedies that happened, you know, in society,

31
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 3: and you know unfortunately with with drugs and so forth.

32
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 3: You know, you see that happen, and that may pop

33
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 3: into your mind again about just how sad a story

34
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 3: that was that he that that he passed away, you

35
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 3: know because of a drug you know, overdose or a

36
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 3: drug situation.

37
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 1: So uh, you.

38
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 3: Know, so whenever those things pop up, So it's not

39
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 3: a time I think any year that goes by if

40
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 3: you don't think of many and just he stays with.

41
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: You right now. You played in d c U.

42
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know how much there was intercompetition between

43
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 2: you know, it was a strictly summer summer pickup games

44
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 2: where you first saw Lan, uh five Star camp. Whe

45
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,679
Speaker 2: was the first time you really saw Lan played against them,

46
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 2: you know, got an known well.

47
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 4: The first time.

48
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 3: You know, of course, you know I ended up you

49
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 3: know five Star basketball campus one and then two would

50
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 3: be you know, we were on the we were on

51
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 3: the Capitol Classic team together, you know, so we played

52
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 3: on that team together actually came out with co MVPs

53
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,799
Speaker 3: and it was a great celebration because that's where they

54
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,240
Speaker 3: take the DC area's best basketball players and they play

55
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 3: against the All Americans from all over the country. And

56
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 3: so of course to win that game against all the

57
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,399
Speaker 3: All Americans from all over the country is a big

58
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 3: deal in our city.

59
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 4: And we were able to win that game, and we

60
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 4: shared the MVP, and so that was something that was special.

61
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 3: We were supposed to play each other that same season,

62
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,240
Speaker 3: but the game got canceled because the snow, and so

63
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 3: we didn't get a chance to.

64
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 4: Play against each other and during our senior year, which

65
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 4: is unfortunate. But but definitely those are some of us,

66
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 4: some some real fond mary, some good times.

67
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: Right.

68
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 2: Any play in particular in the you know, against any

69
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 2: big name player in the uh Capitol Classic that you

70
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,359
Speaker 2: remember when making uh not to.

71
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 3: Me big time plays, I mean he just I mean,

72
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 3: like See's VP of the game. So uh, he definitely

73
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 3: made a number of plays.

74
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,960
Speaker 4: I can't particularly think of one of this age of

75
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 4: about careers, but he uh, you know, he was phenomenal.

76
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 4: I mean I'm sure he you know, he was just more.

77
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 3: Than an athlete out there, and he had such a

78
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 3: good touch of good feel, you know, such a soft

79
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 3: jump shot for a guy that was that explosive.

80
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 4: And so he was a unique player.

81
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you made an immediate impact that duke, and

82
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 2: Duke was a I think you it was more of

83
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,119
Speaker 2: a rebuilding situation when you went there with with with

84
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,120
Speaker 2: Tommy and and and and I think Jay was in

85
00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 2: that class.

86
00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 1: Allery, I think was in that class.

87
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 2: He went to a team more veteran team. When when

88
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,320
Speaker 2: you saw him as a freshman, you know, maybe early

89
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 2: sophomore as at Maryland, did you did you think, well,

90
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 2: he's deferring to you know, the Ben Colemans and the

91
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 2: Adrian Branches and wait, wait till he really shows what

92
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 2: he can do. What was your thought early on? And

93
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 2: then when did you say, oh, okay, that's the guy

94
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,680
Speaker 2: I remember from the cap Classic and from DC.

95
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 4: Well, I knew he was going to emerge and I

96
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 4: saw him in a Capitol Classic.

97
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,560
Speaker 3: To have that kind of performance on that stage, you know,

98
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 3: told him everything I need to know about him and

99
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 3: how good he could become.

100
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,040
Speaker 4: So it was just a matter of time before he

101
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 4: started to excel at Maryland.

102
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,840
Speaker 3: I mean, the thing about Lenny is the thing I

103
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,359
Speaker 3: knew about him was he put a lot of time

104
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 3: on getting better physically and on his skill, on his

105
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 3: game and shooting.

106
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 4: I mean, he he was a guy. He went to

107
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 4: the gym, He wanted to work.

108
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,760
Speaker 3: You know, I'd always knew that about him, even though

109
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 3: I didn't always see him, because you can always tell

110
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 3: the players that put that kind of time in you

111
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 3: could watch their game grow and develop. So like I

112
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,720
Speaker 3: saw it grow and develop from where he came from

113
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 3: high school, all sudden he's sharing an m v P

114
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 3: of the Capitol Classic. I do the same thing was

115
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 3: going to apply. He kept that same work in.

116
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 4: College for.

117
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 1: You know, everybody talks about the game against Carolina.

118
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:12,839
Speaker 2: That was the first year I was on the beat

119
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 2: at the Sun covering him, and and in one of

120
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 2: the other games I remember is the game against Duke.

121
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 2: He had forty one I think at Cameron and and

122
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 2: and I think Keith was even his point guard was

123
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,600
Speaker 2: sick that night or back injury or something. And I

124
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 2: remember Coach k saying that was the best performance ever

125
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 2: by a visiting player at Cameron at that time. What

126
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,840
Speaker 2: do you have any memories of that night? And I

127
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,840
Speaker 2: know Jay talked about it, like, you know, coming back

128
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: to the huddle. Basically all the huddle, all the defensive

129
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 2: huddles were about like, Okay, are we going to stop

130
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 2: this guy?

131
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 1: You know what, what what are we going to do?

132
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 3: Well, Jay, as institutional memories, he can remember those things

133
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 3: bad than I am, for sure, But you know I

134
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 3: do remember him just having a phenomenal night.

135
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 4: He was, uh, he was unguardable. I mean, when you

136
00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 4: get it going like he got it going, you know,

137
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 4: you know, going to slow him down. I remember that.

138
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 3: You know, it's very competitive, all being from the same

139
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 3: area of course, you know, so you definitely you definitely,

140
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 3: you know, we.

141
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 4: Beating him up there.

142
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,280
Speaker 3: Of course they coming back to have a chance to

143
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,599
Speaker 3: play us at our place, and so not one to

144
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 3: lose back to back games.

145
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,160
Speaker 4: And so he put on a great performance and I'll

146
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 4: never forget that. Just you know, we we sent everything out,

147
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640
Speaker 4: a number of guys starting him. But you know, as far.

148
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 3: As his abilities, I mean, like I said, he was

149
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 3: at a stage in his career in his game where

150
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 3: he was he was at he was at the top.

151
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,279
Speaker 3: I mean, so he was definitely, uh playing some really

152
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:32,560
Speaker 3: good basketball.

153
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 2: And what do you remember about the ACA. Yeah, it's

154
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 2: probably something you don't want to remember. But the ACC

155
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,840
Speaker 2: championship game in eighty four, Uh, any any any memories

156
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 2: of that? That game and uh, you know obviously that

157
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,400
Speaker 2: was almost like, you know, his coming out as a star.

158
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: You know, at ACC tournament.

159
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,320
Speaker 3: I would say exactly what you said that to me.

160
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 3: In the ACC that was his coming out party. I

161
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 3: thought he he played really, really well. He started to

162
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 3: play a way as I mentioned before, you so coming

163
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,920
Speaker 3: to Capitol Classic, how I started to just you know

164
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 3: develop and then you see him, you know, having a

165
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 3: year's freshman year of course, like a lot of freshmen

166
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 3: a lot of places, he's figuring it out. And then

167
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 3: he's working hard, he's figuring it out. And then his

168
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 3: sophomore year again he started to excel. And uh, I

169
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 3: think that that game.

170
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,840
Speaker 4: If the championship was, was his coming out party.

171
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 3: As you just mentioned, I don't think you can put any

172
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 3: better than that. He was terrific. Again, you know, he

173
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 3: started just making play after play. He just like I said,

174
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 3: it was very difficult to guard because he did so

175
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,360
Speaker 3: many things, whether it's shooting the ball from the perimeter,

176
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, finishing around the basket, offensive rebounds,

177
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 3: getting out in the lane and running.

178
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 4: I mean, he just was like I said, he was.

179
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 3: He was so well rounded as a player and can't

180
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 3: find too many faults in his game.

181
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 4: And those guys are the hardest ones to defend.

182
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, do you have it?

183
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 2: I mean you were a part of that eighty sixth class.

184
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 2: You were a first round pick of the Spurs. Do

185
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: you have any memories of that night? How excited you

186
00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 2: guys were, you know, two guys from d see being

187
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,679
Speaker 2: tramp picks together and and and and then two days

188
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 2: later hearing the news about you Land had passed.

189
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 3: Just you know, definitely, you know, I remember us getting

190
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 3: drafted and and and congratulating each other, you know, very happy,

191
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 3: And these are something that you've worked on pretty much.

192
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 4: It feels like your entire life.

193
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,040
Speaker 3: So to see that dream come true and you be

194
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 3: selected amongst those few players have an opportunity to play

195
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 3: at that level, Uh, it's a cost of celebrations. So

196
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 3: we were very excited, very happy sharing that with each other.

197
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 3: Just the fact that man, congratulations, congratulations, man, good luck

198
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 3: and uh I remember it being that type of conversation.

199
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 3: And then uh, like I said, and two days later.

200
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 3: Now everyone kind of can remember where they were during

201
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 3: that time, and uh, you know, I'm down back in

202
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 3: Carolina at that point in time. I'm actually out fishing,

203
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,679
Speaker 3: and uh have a little little radio while I'm out

204
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,200
Speaker 3: there fishing, and it comes across the radio that that

205
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,439
Speaker 3: Lenny Lenny passed.

206
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 4: And then first you listen to you like, that can't

207
00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,600
Speaker 4: be true. I just saw him, you know, forty eight

208
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 4: hours ago or so.

209
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 3: And uh, they repeating it and they're just everyone's in

210
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 3: shock on the radio talking about it. And I just

211
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 3: got up, of course, you just got up and left

212
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 3: and went back to uh went back home and followed

213
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 3: up with people and you know, it wasn't cell phones

214
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:17,559
Speaker 3: back then.

215
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 4: Stuff.

216
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 3: Went back and followed up with people and everyone confirmed that, yeah,

217
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,560
Speaker 3: he had passed, and just you know, just remember just being.

218
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 4: Really in shock. Just how you know, how how life is.

219
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,720
Speaker 3: That's how life works, you know, all of a sudden,

220
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,439
Speaker 3: she got in the prime of his you know, with

221
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 3: his abilities and everything in the world ahead of him

222
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 3: to play for and to become a great player at

223
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,960
Speaker 3: the next level, and the next day is just gone

224
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 3: and they just you know, feel was shocking.

225
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 2: We talked about you played with him on the ACC

226
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 2: Barnstorming Tour that earlier that that spring.

227
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,199
Speaker 1: Uh what was that like? What was the Barnstorming Tour like?

228
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,720
Speaker 2: And what was it being a teammate again to bring

229
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 2: back memories of the CAP Classic or obviously that's a

230
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 2: much differ you know format, it's much looser and everything

231
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 2: like that.

232
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 4: Well, Barmstone was fun.

233
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 1: It was.

234
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 3: It was always a great event in the Carolinas where

235
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,880
Speaker 3: you'd go play and you play in different different towns

236
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 3: and play against the local you know, fire department, you

237
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 3: know police department, you know, faculty.

238
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 4: From the high schools and schools and just it was

239
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 4: a fun, fun time.

240
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 3: It's kind of a celebration of all the ACC players

241
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,680
Speaker 3: and so yeah, when he decided to come down and play,

242
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,959
Speaker 3: it just made it that much more special to be

243
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 3: able to unite with him in that type of environment

244
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 3: and not.

245
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 4: Just be competing against them, which we had done before

246
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,960
Speaker 4: straight years. So it was a lot of fun.

247
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 3: Just uh, you know, of course, to show me that

248
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,080
Speaker 3: he is, he would you know, he'd go out there

249
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,840
Speaker 3: and you know do some amazing things of course during

250
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 3: the games or in the layup lines, and uh, just

251
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 3: you know, just fond memories and but he, like I said,

252
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 3: those are those were just like I said, memories I

253
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 3: throw a j probably can elaborate on them some more

254
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,839
Speaker 3: as well, but just just fun times where you know,

255
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 3: your chance to celebrate each other other, celebrate the moment.

256
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 4: You know, college is winding down.

257
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,199
Speaker 3: For us, a new chapter is about to begin, and

258
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 3: we're kind of having fun, you know, kind of that

259
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 3: in between college and the NBA.

260
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,760
Speaker 2: In terms of you, you got to see through your eyes,

261
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 2: you know, the seasons you played in the NBA, you

262
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,080
Speaker 2: saw Michael obviously developed pretty quickly into the player that

263
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 2: legend that he became. You know, when did you ever

264
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,320
Speaker 2: think about, you know, man, Len would have been right there.

265
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,560
Speaker 2: Lenn would have been right not I say right there

266
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 2: with Michael, but right there as one of the top,

267
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,600
Speaker 2: you know, eventually as one of the top players in

268
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 2: the league. Had he gotten that chance, knowing his skills,

269
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,960
Speaker 2: knowing his game, is there any doubt that he would

270
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 2: have been considered one of the best players of his era.

271
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 3: It's no doubt in my mind that he would have been.

272
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 3: I mean, he was, he was. He had the skill

273
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,480
Speaker 3: set to be very successful. He shot the ball with

274
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 3: good range. You know, I had a great touch, I

275
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,320
Speaker 3: mean around the basket. Nobody could jep with him. I

276
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 3: mean I played prolls some for a decade. He was

277
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 3: still you know.

278
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,839
Speaker 4: Top one percentile of athlete at that level, so that

279
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,840
Speaker 4: wouldn't have been an issue for him. He could finish

280
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,560
Speaker 4: in the low post. You know, he could defend. I mean,

281
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 4: he was long, he was competitive, He had all the

282
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 4: attributes to be very successful. So I had you know, Mom,

283
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 4: I had no doubt that he'd have been one of

284
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 4: one of the greatest players to play. You had he

285
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 4: had that opportunity.

286
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 2: Did when you watch the NBA and you know, you

287
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,320
Speaker 2: coach college prou so so long, is there any player

288
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,080
Speaker 2: in all the time since then that reminds you reminded

289
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 2: you of Len at all, whether it's Zion or I

290
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 2: mean Lebron maybe more passing skills, and I don't want

291
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 2: to put him in that category if he's not, But

292
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 2: any anybody remind you of the Wayland played in his

293
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,559
Speaker 2: ear compared to guys now or over the year.

294
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,920
Speaker 3: That's that's a difficult question for me because the game

295
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 3: has evolved so much. I mean, Lenny wasn't you know,

296
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 3: really put it on the floor and do a lot

297
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 3: of dribbles to create his offense. So and a lot

298
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 3: of the players you see nowadays, you know, they had

299
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 3: the ball in their hands for you know, a large

300
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 3: percentage of the time, and they can make whatever plays

301
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 3: they want to make when they want to make it.

302
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 3: You know, Lenny played off of people. You know, he

303
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,079
Speaker 3: played off of the guards and played off of guys.

304
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 3: He received it, he shot it, you know, he received

305
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,559
Speaker 3: it and you close out, you know, improperly.

306
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 4: He drove, he ripped him into the basket right away.

307
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 3: He'd go down going the low post, which they don't

308
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,320
Speaker 3: even play down there anymore.

309
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 4: So if they don't even play up back to the

310
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 4: basket too much anymore.

311
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,439
Speaker 3: So, No, it isn't not anyone that really comes to mind,

312
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 3: Like no, Zion doesn't come to mind.

313
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 4: Lebron doesn't come to mind. You know, he was unique

314
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 4: in who he was.

315
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 3: I mean, just like I said, they have that type

316
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 3: of athleticism and they had that type of shooting stroke.

317
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,080
Speaker 4: That combination. I think he would have been successful on

318
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,760
Speaker 4: any level he played on. It would he be very

319
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 4: successful now absolutely, because his skill sets will allow him

320
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 4: to do that.

321
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 3: He could walk out there now because of his ability

322
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 3: to shoot the basketball still with that athleticism then play

323
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 3: making at the basket, he would have a lot of success.

324
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 4: And it's like he would have done the same thing

325
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 4: during that time.

326
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, at Tapscott was talking about his hit for calling back.

327
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 2: You know, when when you and Franklin Frank Ross would

328
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 2: come up to the gym and work out. Len occasionally,

329
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 2: I guess came and played up there. And Agan Branch.

330
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: He said there was a point in time, probably you know,

331
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: maybe a.

332
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 2: Year before he passed away, that that you guys not

333
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 2: not necessarily expressed concern about him, but he would show

334
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 2: up with guys you didn't know, and and and you like,

335
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 2: you know about the guy. Maybe he was just okay guy,

336
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 2: he didn't know, You didn't know what his intentions were

337
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,600
Speaker 2: or whatever, whether he was really a friend or just

338
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 2: trying to sort of feed off of Len's celebrity. Was

339
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: there every concern in your part that you know, maybe

340
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 2: he was widening the circle too much?

341
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 5: Uh?

342
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 3: Well, you know, typically, you know, in our sport, and

343
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 3: we used to go to America and play, and then

344
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: he would occasionally come down and.

345
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 4: Play, that's for sure.

346
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 3: And uh, you know that was times again because you

347
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,640
Speaker 3: get a chance to work out and pete against each

348
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 3: other and pick up ball, which is a total different

349
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 3: type of game than you would during the course of

350
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 3: the season. So that was a lot of fun times

351
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,800
Speaker 3: working on skills and trying to get better.

352
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 4: But ye, absolutely, you know, usually you know, you know,

353
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 4: you know, usually.

354
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 3: You know, the basketball players kind of you know, hang

355
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 3: with the basketball players, and so you just kind of

356
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 3: just kind of saw that during our time that's kind

357
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 3: of been expanded. Now you watch the players as they've

358
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 3: kind of come up through the nineties and into the

359
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 3: two thousands, you see bigger i won't say lack of

360
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,600
Speaker 3: a better world entouragists, but you see bigger groups of

361
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 3: people together ranging from all kind of you know, different

362
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 3: things that they're into, whether it's business, whether it's basketball,

363
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, whatever the you know they choose

364
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,160
Speaker 3: to do.

365
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,000
Speaker 4: But yeah, so Lenny would.

366
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 3: Have a different type of you know, a combination of

367
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 3: players as well as people that maybe weren't you know, players.

368
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, was there ever a concern about who he was

369
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 2: hanging out with or were they they were just guys

370
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 2: that you met, h.

371
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 4: Uh, guys that he knew, guys that he was friends with.

372
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 3: I mean we didn't know him as well, so I

373
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 3: might have, you know, one way or another, uh to

374
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 3: kind of you know, for me, just guys that he knew,

375
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 3: we didn't really know as well. So uh, but they

376
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 3: were they were his friends and so I know they

377
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been with him if he didn't you know,

378
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 3: he wasn't comfortable around him, right, Okay, Dave, you have some.

379
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 6: Questions, Yes I do. Thanks again Johnny for taking the time.

380
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 6: Can you go back a little when you were playing

381
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 6: basketball in high school and uh what you were hearing

382
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 6: or thinking seeing or were or were thinking about lenn

383
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 6: at that time? He was he a level above target.

384
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 6: I mean there's a lot of good players. What what

385
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 6: separated him, if anything from other players?

386
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 4: Uh?

387
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 3: You know one the thing the thing that I admired,

388
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 3: like like I'm sure you know, Coach TAP's gotta say

389
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 3: this about We were in the gym all the time,

390
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 3: we were working and trying to get better all the time,

391
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:05,720
Speaker 3: and the thing I knew about him, even though I

392
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 3: didn't see him every day, was that's how he was.

393
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,679
Speaker 3: And I just always respected guys who really worked on

394
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 3: their craft. I mean, you know when you love the

395
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 3: game and you're passionate about it, you know you're gonna

396
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,440
Speaker 3: put whatever time it takes to become.

397
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 4: Great at it.

398
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 3: And and I could tell he was doing that because

399
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 3: there wasn't a time I didn't see him getting better

400
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 3: and better.

401
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 4: You can't improve in this game without the reps about

402
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,440
Speaker 4: putting in the time. And so that's the.

403
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 3: Thing I knew about Lenny was that he had to

404
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 3: have a heck of a work ethic. And you look

405
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,640
Speaker 3: at him physically, I mean, you know, looking at him physically,

406
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,399
Speaker 3: you know, you could tell that he was now spending

407
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 3: time work on his ball skills, but also you know,

408
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 3: in the weight room and so forth. You could just

409
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 3: tell that he had committed to wanting to be a

410
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 3: great player. And I have a great deal of respect

411
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 3: for guys who, whatever profession they choose, when they, you know,

412
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 3: attack it that way because they attacking it with a passion.

413
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 1: Because he was cool, quick, and he was so old

414
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 1: or from because.

415
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 6: Even Don made a reference a little earlier to some

416
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 6: of the people he may have been hanging out with

417
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,719
Speaker 6: more basketball players. Do you remember meeting Brian Tribble, and

418
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,359
Speaker 6: if so, did you have any thoughts about Brian or

419
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 6: what was there any concern that he was hanging out

420
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 6: with this guy?

421
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 4: Well, of course I'm sure that, Madam.

422
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 3: Before you know, probably between pick up ball down America

423
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 3: University or barnstorming somewhere, I'm sure we'd probably run across

424
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 3: each other.

425
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 4: I would venture to say we had.

426
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 6: Did you remember having anybody having any concerns about him?

427
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 3: I don't remember anybody really discussing that. You know that

428
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 3: they didn't come out. No one came to me and

429
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 3: said they had a concern about him at that time.

430
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 6: Okay, there was a We talked a bit about barnstorming.

431
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,400
Speaker 6: I write this in the book. I talked with Chris Washburn.

432
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 6: You remember who Chris was, obviously, absolutely yeah, And Chris

433
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 6: tells me the story and I write in the book,

434
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,159
Speaker 6: and he recounted that story for the podcast series. In

435
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 6: the interview last week, how Lynn introduced him to cocaine

436
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 6: on the barn Storming tour in eighty six. He was

437
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 6: with a guy named Charles Logan and they locked on

438
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 6: his door to bet one in the morning, and Chris

439
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 6: said he was in bed and he had never used

440
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 6: cocaine before, but it was len bias. He looked up

441
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 6: to lend like an idol, and he said, I'm not

442
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 6: going to turned Lend down.

443
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,160
Speaker 5: This went on for four hours.

444
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 6: He said he missed his class the next morning and

445
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 6: he never either. You're probably aware of what happened to

446
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 6: Chris with cocaine. Do you remember Charles Logan? Do you

447
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 6: remember hearing anything about him? Because he's passed away, he

448
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 6: can't confirm it. Uh, And that's was there any indication

449
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 6: at that time that you saw Lens sorta even on

450
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 6: the trip, if you saw him enough that there was something,

451
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 6: you know, where's he going or what's he doing kind

452
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 6: of stuff?

453
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 3: No, not at all, you know, unlike you know Chris,

454
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,160
Speaker 3: we never stayed in the places we bonsed on him,

455
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 3: so we would always drive in, play the game, and

456
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,479
Speaker 3: then drive right out. So I never like stayed around

457
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 3: hung out at the hotel we played. I'm headed right back.

458
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 3: All the games in Carolina.

459
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 5: Oh, let's be the point.

460
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 4: Longest drive is going to be the probably.

461
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 3: The longest drive would be askedal it was going to

462
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: be three and a half hours right after games.

463
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 4: Oh, I just head back and go sleep them on bed.

464
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

465
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

466
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 6: The the the gentleman who who ran the the tournament.

467
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 5: We interad him last week.

468
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 6: He telling great stories about how interactive Lynn was with

469
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 6: people down there, and how he how he was so

470
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 6: engaging with the people, how he would stay longer than

471
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,439
Speaker 6: anybody else to sign autographs and and and did you

472
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 6: see some of that? And if you did, what what

473
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 6: do you recall from those after those games? If he

474
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 6: was doing anything that sort of set him apart from

475
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 6: anyone else.

476
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 4: So he was, That's who he is. I mean, you

477
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 4: know he you know he was.

478
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 3: I mean he was, like I said, he had gotten

479
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 3: to a point in his career where he developed and

480
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 3: worked really hard to become a great, great player. And

481
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 3: the thing that that did you admire about him is

482
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 3: that he always stayed the same from the standpoint of

483
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 3: you know, with people. You know, he was always it

484
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 3: doesn't surprise, but he was good with people that that

485
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 3: he signed autographs as long as they wanted, or he

486
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 3: would talk to people, you know, if they came by

487
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 3: him and they wanted to, you know, ask a question

488
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 3: or something.

489
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 4: I don't I would never see him.

490
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 3: I could never see him saying no to an autograph,

491
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: and I could never see him.

492
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 4: Not giving one some time that that may have come

493
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 4: by and wanted to speak to him. This is not

494
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 4: who he was. And uh and and yet I don't

495
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 4: I didn't see him change that as as he was

496
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 4: continuing to move forward with success.

497
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 6: How did you see his death affect a couple perspectives

498
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 6: young basketball players in the DC area?

499
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 5: Is where you grew up? You grew up in d C. Correct?

500
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 6: Ye, yes, young players in the area after he died. Also,

501
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 6: you went under play pro ball after he died. Did

502
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 6: you see any impact on players within the NBA? Well,

503
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 6: this happened to Lend. We have to be careful it

504
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 6: could happen to us. And was there sort of was

505
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 6: there more of an emotional impact, a personal kind of

506
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 6: sadness that you saw within the DC community from it?

507
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 5: Then?

508
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 3: Definitely a sadness in the DMV. There was definitely a

509
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 3: sadness in that community. Uh, you know, probably still is

510
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 3: to be quite frank, I mean just you know, just

511
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: think about who he would have become. I think everyone

512
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 3: carries that, you know with them and just said that

513
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: that it ends in such a tragedy, so his life.

514
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, same thing with being the NBA. I think

515
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: it was something that people thought about. I can't recall

516
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 3: any particular stories, but for sure. I mean, you know,

517
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: every year of the anniversary of what happened comes up,

518
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 3: whenever year it's the draft, you know, that story comes

519
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 3: up and relive it. So definitely everyone you know, as

520
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 3: I think had an effect on everyone. And I will say,

521
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 3: you know, I think it goes you know, unknown, or

522
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 3: maybe it doesn't. But I mean, how many lives do

523
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 3: we think he saved by would happen? I mean, I

524
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 3: think sometimes we overlook the fact that, you know, a

525
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 3: generation of players that have come behind him. I mean,

526
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 3: who knows that that would have happened to one or

527
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 3: more of those players if it hadn't been for the

528
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: story of len Bias.

529
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 4: So, you know, talking.

530
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 3: About leaving the legacy, I mean is like you said,

531
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 3: it's a broad legacy.

532
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 4: And that's part of this legacy too.

533
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: I think he saved a lot more lives that will

534
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 3: never know because of history and the fact that we

535
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 3: kept his story alive, the way that Desbon kept alive.

536
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 6: We in that thought patem we present the title of

537
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 6: the book is born ready a mixed legacy of lend

538
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 6: biased because it is there are people whose lives were saved,

539
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 6: There are peoples whose lives were greatly altered, and that's

540
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 6: you're putting.

541
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 5: That, you're really capturing that very well. Uh left to

542
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 5: Grissel told me a story about how when he came

543
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 5: out of when I.

544
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 6: Talked to him for the book a year or so

545
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 6: before the book came out, he was coming out of

546
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 6: a church in Virginia Beach and a man walked up

547
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 6: to him who he didn't know, and said, you coached

548
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 6: Grisel And he said yes, Diam. He said, did you

549
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 6: coach Len Bias? He said yes, I did. And he said, well,

550
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 6: Len Bias saved my life. He said, what do you mean?

551
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 6: He said, when Len died, I was addicted to cocaine.

552
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 6: I lost my job, I lost my family, all that.

553
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 6: And he said, I stopped using when Len died.

554
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: Did you? Uh?

555
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 6: We did it have any maybe not that dramatic, any

556
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 6: personal impact on you to stay away from drugs or

557
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 6: any of your friends say, whoa, hey, Len died. That's

558
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 6: the big red light to stop science. I got to

559
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 6: be more aware of this.

560
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 4: Uh no, not in my personal life. You know, that's

561
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: not something that I was really interested in.

562
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 3: But it did propel me to when I give like

563
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 3: speeches you know, you speak to a lot of basketball

564
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: camps and I always, you know, have a part about

565
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: drugs in there because of that.

566
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 4: I think that's there strictly because of Lenny.

567
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have used that story and different things of

568
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: that nature if it hadn't been for what happened to him.

569
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: So pretty much every time I'll give my you know,

570
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 3: so with COVID, we may not be able to have

571
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: a camp again this year, but if I had it,

572
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: you know, I speak to my kids again, and every

573
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: time I give my lecture, I always have a portion

574
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 3: of it about about staying away from drugs.

575
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 4: And I think it's a direct result of what happened

576
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 4: to Lenny.

577
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 6: Do you actually tell part of Len's story or make

578
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 6: a reference to lend or it's more of a general

579
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 6: kind of more of.

580
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 3: A general I don't really use I don't reference Lenny

581
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: in the stories, you know, I just kind of, you know,

582
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: tell tell my story. But it's I know it's because

583
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: of memory of my memory of Lenny is why I

584
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: do that. I probably, you know, doing a basketball camp

585
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: typically it's you know, about a lot of things you

586
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 3: can help young people growing. But I made a point

587
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: to always talk about drugs, and I think that's directly

588
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 3: related to Lenny.

589
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 6: Dave Dickerson, who was on the team when Lenn died.

590
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 6: You may remember Dave from being a Maryland player. Yes,

591
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 6: he later coached at Tulane, and he tells he was

592
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 6: a Tulane during Hurricane Katrina. And he tells me a

593
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 6: story that I write about in the book that if

594
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 6: you recalled Chulane had to go to I think it

595
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 6: was Texas, A and m They had to pretty much

596
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 6: uproot their lives.

597
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 5: Everything was very distorted and very unsettled.

598
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 6: And he told the story of Land and his connection

599
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 6: to being part of that story as a way to

600
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 6: inspire his players.

601
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 5: Look, this is a challenge. This is going to be hard.

602
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 5: I work through this. If I work through this, you

603
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 5: can work through this.

604
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 6: You your college coaching career, have you told his story

605
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 6: in that perspective?

606
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 5: Have you used him at all talking to some of

607
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 5: your players?

608
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 4: I definitely have, definitely with my teams.

609
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 3: You know, I can't say every team, but I definitely

610
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: have used this story about the important of staying away

611
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: from drugs, understanding that the harm it can cause, and

612
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 3: how this is what happened to one man in his life,

613
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: and so you know, most of them because of like

614
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: I said, it comes around every year right after the

615
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: draft that most of them have heard of them.

616
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: So when I start telling him that somebody I.

617
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 3: Played against, we played at the same time, you know,

618
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 3: pick up ball, and and so when I was telling

619
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: those stories, it kind of, I think, brings everything, you know,

620
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 3: you know, it kind of brings it kind of crystallizes

621
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: it for all of those guys because they realize, like that, hey,

622
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: you actually knew that guy that we kind of only

623
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: heard stories about.

624
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: So you know, you know, it gives me.

625
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: A little bit of credibility when it comes to like

626
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 3: trying to explain to those guys important that they need

627
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: to make sure that they don't you know, you know,

628
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 3: you know, going down the path that could put them

629
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 3: in a position where you know, you never know that

630
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 3: you don't you know, you can end up dying off

631
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 3: of something from something like that.

632
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 6: When you were playing against him in college, did you

633
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 6: ever step back and say, whoa man, how did he

634
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 6: do that? Was there any moments of marvel because you

635
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 6: were a player of the year, I mean, and you

636
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 6: were as established, if not more established, as a basketball

637
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 6: player as level but were there any moments when either

638
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 6: I wish I could do that, or or boy, look

639
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 6: what he just did.

640
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 5: I don't know if I could ever do that.

641
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 4: No, absolutely, I just think about times, you know.

642
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: I remember we were playing pickup ball, like a University

643
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: of Maryland one time when I was home, and uh,

644
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: you know, and they threw him a really really bad pass,

645
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: and like one of these passes that you really shouldn't

646
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: be able to catch him do anything with, he still

647
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 3: caught it and managed to take the.

648
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: Ball all the way to the room and dunket while

649
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: he was still in the air.

650
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: And I'm just looking around, and I think I was

651
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: telling them what I was talking to one of the players.

652
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: I forget it was man man Keith Gavin to one

653
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 3: of the guys, and I recall it correctly. It was like, well,

654
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 3: we like to throw him back, you know, bad passes,

655
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 3: because those make them, you know, the best you know

656
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: dumps for them, because he's able to still catch him

657
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 3: and do stuff that no one else could do with

658
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: the basketball and and that and that's right.

659
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 4: I mean, he was.

660
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 3: So like I said, he was such a such a

661
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: gifted athlete to go along with his skill set that

662
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: I just made it was It was fun to watch

663
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 3: plays like that that you knew that no one else

664
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: could do.

665
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 6: When you think of your history with the theory of basketball,

666
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 6: as the college player of the year, as a professional player,

667
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 6: college coach, and you think of all the impactful stories

668
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 6: that have happened in basketball or in sports during your

669
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 6: lifetime and at the level that you competed in coach,

670
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 6: does any story have compared is it comparable an impact?

671
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 5: Uh? How he died? What is it the society?

672
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 6: The grong you said, you think it still had earlier,

673
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 6: It's still had some kind of an impact in the in.

674
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 5: The area today.

675
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: It really does.

676
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 5: Imagine.

677
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't think there's any story that has

678
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: as much impact as that story.

679
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

680
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: It was a tragedy.

681
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: I mean, what happened, no matter what some of the

682
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: other stories may possess, you know, the fact that this

683
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: man died from what happened in that story, Uh, you know,

684
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: just it's very rarely does that happen, and uh, you

685
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: know in my lifetime anyway, And so absolutely that's that's

686
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: the number one story. And uh, there's some great lessons

687
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: within that story. I think that, uh that we can

688
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: take from and that a lot of people have taken

689
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: from as you mentioned before, mhm.

690
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 6: And we can wrap it up with this un the

691
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 6: sun has something else you you make.

692
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: You mentioned a big.

693
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 6: Part of his legacy is it changed a lot of

694
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 6: lives in the positive way, kept them wasting drugs or whatever.

695
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 5: Is that his most important legacy? Do you think?

696
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: Uh?

697
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 4: I think it's right up there.

698
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: I think, you know when I when I think about him,

699
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: and I think about what could have happened during that time,

700
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: and and you know afterwards, you know, I just I

701
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: just had that that gut feeling, especially having played you know,

702
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: beyond college, that that he's that he saved a lot

703
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: of lives by what happened.

704
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 4: I think the fact that you.

705
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 3: Could see this strong, talented, you know, just personable man,

706
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: you know, succumb to drugs the way he did and

707
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: die from him, I think everyone came to realization that

708
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: none of us are you know, what's a good word

709
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: for we?

710
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: You know, we all aren't. None of us are basically invincible.

711
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: You know, we all are in a position where we

712
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: you know, we're not invincible. And I tell my players

713
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: that to this day, I say, you know, you guys

714
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: walk around you like your Superman, but you know, we

715
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: really aren't. We all are vulnerable and we all can

716
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: succumb to something. And again, you know, you think about

717
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: linear situation because it's no more powerful explosive person and

718
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: player than he was during his time, and he was

719
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: still in his early twenties, and so if that can

720
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: happen to him, it can happen to anybody.

721
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 5: I apologize. I did think of one more as you're talking.

722
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 6: When you were playing in the NBA was right after

723
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 6: Lynn died, and there's a lot of speculation, and I

724
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 6: think some of it's valid because we'll never know that

725
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 6: he could have been the rivalry to Jordan, that magic

726
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 6: was the bird, that that uh Wilt was to go Russell,

727
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 6: did you hear any talk in the NBA that man,

728
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 6: what would have been like if len Bias would have

729
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 6: been playing now? Did was there any kind of dreamy

730
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 6: dreamy what could have been kind of.

731
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 4: Discussion kind of like what you're saying now.

732
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: I mean everyone was, you know, wondering what type of

733
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: NBA player, what type of impact he would have had?

734
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: Uh And the same thing you said about the rivalry

735
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: with Jordan is you know, you know everyone.

736
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 4: Thought but that that could have been a great rivalry

737
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: that that never came to pass.

738
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: Uh, absolutely, that that kind of was floating around out there.

739
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: I can't say who and what, but that kind of

740
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 3: thing was floating around people and and uh and and

741
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: it's it makes sense to to think like that. And uh,

742
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: you know, because he was, you know, he was on

743
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: track to become a great, great player, and it was

744
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: just a function of you know, how far would he get?

745
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: But but you knew he was on the right path.

746
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: And uh and Jordan of course had already started. It

747
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: made that turn, and of course we see where he

748
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: is now the greatest player.

749
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 4: To ever play our game. And uh, so you know,

750
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 4: you know how good was that playing in college basketball

751
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 4: in the ACC back in the mid eighties and you

752
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: got Jordan, you got Lenny and the cast of other players.

753
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: So it was, uh, it was a phenomenal time. And unfortunately,

754
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 3: you know, we didn't get to see a carry on

755
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: to the NBA for for who you know, which which

756
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: had been some amazing you know decade or a decade

757
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: or so of those two guys, you know, being able

758
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: to play at an amazing level.

759
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 5: Johnny, thank you. Don Do you have any.

760
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: Follow up Good, Thanks Johnny Good, Sean.

761
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 7: Len bias A Mixed Legacy. The interviews was produced by

762
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 7: Daveon Grady and Don Marcus. Len bias A Mixed Legacy

763
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 7: is distributed by the Eighth Side Network.

764
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: It