Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: On March first, nineteen oh eight, local Las Crusees, New
Speaker 2: Mexico newspapers reported quote Pat F. Garrett fulfilled his own
Speaker 2: prophecy that he would die with his boots on. Garrett
Speaker 2: was killed between ten and eleven o'clock on the road
Speaker 2: to his Bear Canyon ranch at a point five miles
Speaker 2: from Las Cruses, best known as a lawman and the
Speaker 2: slayer of Billy the Kid. Let's meet Pat and talk
Speaker 2: about the events of his unexpected death. Was it self
Speaker 2: defense or maybe a conspiracy. Pat was a high profile
Speaker 2: guy and people had thoughts about what happened, and I
Speaker 2: still do. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Marian Tremarqui and.
Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frye. In the Chihuahuan Desert outside of Las Cruces,
Speaker 1: New Mexico, is the site where famous law man Pat
Speaker 1: Garrett was killed on February twenty ninth, nineteen oh eight.
Speaker 1: You'll find a plaque under a kreosote bush noting the
Speaker 1: scene of the crime. Pat had a big life on
Speaker 1: the American frontier. He was sheriff of two different counties
Speaker 1: in New Mexico and one of the first collectors of customs.
Speaker 1: He knew President Theodore Roosevelt well and had been to
Speaker 1: the White House on multiple occasions. And as we said,
Speaker 1: he is best known for being the guy who killed
Speaker 1: Billy the Kid. We know his impressive resume, but what
Speaker 1: we don't know is who precisely killed him on the
Speaker 1: side of the road that morning in February.
Speaker 2: Let's dive into Pat's life before we talk about his death.
Speaker 2: Born in Alabama on June fifth, eighteen fifty, Patrick Floyd
Speaker 2: Jarvis Garrett was raised on a cotton plantation his father
Speaker 2: had purchased in Louisiana. He left home at about the
Speaker 2: age of seventeen or eighteen, give or take on that.
Speaker 2: With his sites on Texas, Pat wanted to be a
Speaker 2: cowboy and a buffalo hunter. Garrett's whereabouts over his first
Speaker 2: several years away from home are I mean, honestly, they're
Speaker 2: pretty vague, but historians believe he did go to Texas,
Speaker 2: where he did hunt buffalo and was probably a cattle rancher.
Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy nine, he married Juanita Martinez, but tragedy
Speaker 1: struck when his bride collapsed at their wedding ceremony, and
Speaker 1: she died of unknown causes the next day. Pat then
Speaker 1: settled into a job as sheriff of Lincoln County, New Mexico,
Speaker 1: at a time when the Lincoln County Wars were happening
Speaker 1: that was primarily a conflict between rival cattle ranchers in
Speaker 1: the territory, And then on January fourteenth, eighteen eighty, he
Speaker 1: remarried to a Pollinaria Gutierrez, known to friends as Pauline.
Speaker 1: The couple had eight children together, Ada, Dudley, Elizabeth, Annie, Patrick, Paula, Oscar,
Speaker 1: and Jarvis.
Speaker 2: July fourteenth, eighteen eighty one is the day for which
Speaker 2: Pat Garrett will always be known. It's the day he
Speaker 2: led a posse to Fort Sumner, where he had tracked
Speaker 2: the infamous outlaw William H. Bonnie, best known as Billy
Speaker 2: the Kid, and fatally shot him. Despite his successes in
Speaker 2: fame in Lincoln County, Pat didn't seek reelection as sheriff
Speaker 2: the next year and instead moved to Texas, where he
Speaker 2: ran unsuccessfully for a seat in the state Senate. There
Speaker 2: he became a captain with the Texas Rangers, but he
Speaker 2: stayed for less than a month before heading to Roswell,
Speaker 2: New Mexico. In Roswell, Pat became more of a businessman
Speaker 2: than a lawman, having partnerships with three different irrigation companies
Speaker 2: over the next few years.
Speaker 1: But in April of eighteen ninety six, Garrett was once
Speaker 1: again a lawman. He was sheriff of Donia Anna County,
Speaker 1: New Mexico, appointed to take over the investigation of the
Speaker 1: disappearance or possible double murder of Colonel Albert Fountain, a
Speaker 1: prominent attorney and politician, and Albert's eight year old son Henry.
Speaker 1: Within two years, Pat had gathered sufficient evidence to get
Speaker 1: warrants to arrest four men, Oliver M Lee, William mcnewe,
Speaker 1: Bill Carr, and James Gilliland. The outlaws he implicated for
Speaker 1: those murders were tried, but they were all acquitted, similar
Speaker 1: to Pat's own story. The disappearance of the Fountains has
Speaker 1: puzzled lawmen and historians for more than a century.
Speaker 2: On December sixteenth, nineteen oh one, President Theodore Roosevelt appointed
Speaker 2: Pat to the post of El Paso Customs Agent. He
Speaker 2: was also named one of Roosevelt's so called White House
Speaker 2: gunfighters that was along with former sheriff of Dodge City
Speaker 2: and US Marshal bat Masterson and Ben Daniels, who perhaps
Speaker 2: is best known for serving as a lawman in some
Speaker 2: of the roughest towns in the wild West. He's about
Speaker 2: replaced Garrett with a new collector of customs the following
Speaker 2: term on January second, nineteen oh six.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a break here for a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. No longer a customs agent, we will
Speaker 1: talk about how when Pat went back to work not
Speaker 1: as a lawman but as a rancher, he may have
Speaker 1: kicked off the first event that would ultimately lead to
Speaker 1: his death.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about the death of
Speaker 2: Pat Garrett.
Speaker 1: Following his dismissal from his position in Texas, Pat returned
Speaker 1: to New Mexico to his Bear Canyon ranch, located on
Speaker 1: the east side of the Oregon Mountains. He was broke.
Speaker 1: He owed back taxes and he was in considerable debt,
Speaker 1: and the county had auctioned off his personal possessions to
Speaker 1: satisfy judgments against him. He borrowed a few thousand dollars
Speaker 1: from rancher William bill Cox, who owned San Augustine Springs ranch.
Speaker 1: Cox was Garrett's neighbor. Garrett also agreed to rent some
Speaker 1: of his land to ranch hand Wayne Brazil, who worked
Speaker 1: for Cox.
Speaker 2: Cox had a criminal history and has always been considered
Speaker 2: one of the possible individuals who was either directly or
Speaker 2: indirectly involved in the murder of Pat Garrett, but his
Speaker 2: involvement is at best unclear. Of course, there are theories
Speaker 2: about Garrett and Cox. One possible motive here is that
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety nine, Cox had become angry when he
Speaker 2: returned to his ranch one day and found that then
Speaker 2: sheriff Garrett and his deputy had entered his home and
Speaker 2: killed an unarmed man. Another theory regarding Cox and Garrett
Speaker 2: goes like this Garrett was killed because Cox wanted his ranch.
Speaker 1: Pat leased his cattle ranch for a five year term
Speaker 1: to Wayne Brazil and Archie Road, who was Bill Cox's
Speaker 1: brother in law. Wayne and Archie raised sheep, although we
Speaker 1: should note that there are a number of conflicting reports
Speaker 1: that suggest that it was actually goats they were raising,
Speaker 1: But regardless sheeper goats, it did not take long before
Speaker 1: the men were involved in a hot dispute over that lease.
Speaker 1: After signing with Garrett, Brazil then entered into an agreement
Speaker 1: for ranchers JP Turner of Fort Worth, Texas and Carl
Speaker 1: Adamson of Roswell, New Mexico to sublet Garrett's property, and
Speaker 1: it was also agreed that Turner and Adamson would buy
Speaker 1: the sheep or goats. Garrett, though, had not been involved
Speaker 1: in this new agreement, and he objected and stated that
Speaker 1: he believed that Brazil had forfeited his lease in making
Speaker 1: this sublet deal and that he was going to see
Speaker 1: him in court. Spoiler alert, they do not work this out.
Speaker 2: According to Carl Adamson's account, as he the Rio Grand
Speaker 2: Republican a few days after Garrett's death, and we're going
Speaker 2: to paraphrase him a bit here. He's long winded. He
Speaker 2: had stayed the night at Bear Canyon Ranch and the
Speaker 2: two left in the morning of February twenty ninth, and
Speaker 2: Garrett's buggy they were headed for Las Cruses, only a
Speaker 2: few miles away, to work out a new deal with Brazil.
Speaker 1: This is the account of the tragic ride when pat
Speaker 1: was fatally shot next to his buggy on the side
Speaker 1: of the road, as told by Adamson quote, Garrett was
Speaker 1: dressed carefully when we set out for Los Cruses. He
Speaker 1: placed his Winchester pump gun in the bottom of the
Speaker 1: buggy before we started, and then about a mile from Oregon,
Speaker 1: they overtook Brazil, who was riding alone on a horseback.
Speaker 1: Garrett and Brazil began arguing immediately upon seeing each other,
Speaker 1: and they continued to argue as they kept going for miles.
Speaker 1: When Adamson and Garrett pulled over to answer the call
Speaker 1: of nature, Brazil stopped too, who recalled Adamson quote, while
Speaker 1: I was standing there, why I heard mister Garrett said, well,
Speaker 1: damn you. If I can't get you off my ranch
Speaker 1: that way, I will another and I will do it now,
Speaker 1: or something like that. After those words passed, I heard
Speaker 1: a racket and I just turned my head like that,
Speaker 1: and when I turned it, Garrett was on the ground.
Speaker 1: Pat's shotgun was also on the ground. Brazil had drawn
Speaker 1: his forty four caliber Colt revolver and fired twice. The
Speaker 1: press reported that quote. Garrett was standing on the ground
Speaker 1: by the buggy when he made the grab for the shotgun,
Speaker 1: which cost him his life. His death was practically instantaneous.
Speaker 2: According to Adamson's eyewitness account. After the shooting, Brazil turned
Speaker 2: to him and said, quote, this is hell, ain't it.
Speaker 2: I Am going to town and give myself up to
Speaker 2: the sheriff. An alternate account was published in local papers, stating,
Speaker 2: quote Brazil at once turned the six shooter on Adamson
Speaker 2: demand that he'd take him at once to Los Cruses
Speaker 2: and tell the story of the killing exactly as it happened,
Speaker 2: whether Brazil demanded it or not. The two men left
Speaker 2: to see Sheriff Filippe Lucero in Las Cruzes. There, Brazil
Speaker 2: didn't just confess to the killing. He also told the
Speaker 2: sheriff he feared Pat Garrett was going to kill him,
Speaker 2: and stated he had acted out of self defense. So
Speaker 2: that seems like an open and shutcase, but and you know,
Speaker 2: our butts, it wasn't. The sheriff didn't really believe Brazil
Speaker 2: was capable of carrying out such a crime and didn't
Speaker 2: think the confession was true. He wanted more evidence.
Speaker 1: A coroner's jury convened composed of B. F. Baker, Hugh Clary,
Speaker 1: Vincent May C. S. Pedrigan, at Satterley, Face Sperry, and
Speaker 1: Justice of the Peace and Coroner Manuel Lopez. They viewed
Speaker 1: Pat's body where he had been killed. They reported that
Speaker 1: one bullet had passed through the head, entering from behind
Speaker 1: and exiting over the left eye. A second bullet had
Speaker 1: entered the left breast at about the seventh rib and
Speaker 1: had exited between the shoulder blades. Pat's body was lying
Speaker 1: on its back and his arms were outspread. His shotgun,
Speaker 1: loaded with number eight shot, was on the ground about
Speaker 1: three feet away. The report also noted that his trousers
Speaker 1: were unbuttoned. Within the results of the inquest, it's written
Speaker 1: that Pat Garrett was reported dead in Dounia, Anna County,
Speaker 1: about five miles northeast of Las Cruces, on February twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: nineteen oh eight, and that quote the deceased came to
Speaker 1: his death by gunshot wounds inflicted by one Wayne Brazil.
Speaker 2: We're going to take a break for a word from
Speaker 2: our sponsors. When we're back, we'll talk about Wayne Brazil
Speaker 2: and why he wasn't the only suspect in this murder.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about the trial that
Speaker 1: barely was.
Speaker 2: Pat Garrett's friends were convinced that his murder was the
Speaker 2: result of a ruthless and cold blooded conspiracy and when
Speaker 2: Garrett's brothers arrived by train from Louisiana, they told the
Speaker 2: press they had the same theory. Though the coroner's jury
Speaker 2: found that the first bullet that struck Pat was the
Speaker 2: one that hit his head, many of Pat's friends and
Speaker 2: supporters argued no way. They believed he fell after the
Speaker 2: shot to the chest, pointing out that that wound was
Speaker 2: found to have been made by a bullet that ranged
Speaker 2: upward from, like we said, the seventh rib, to its
Speaker 2: exit between the shoulder blades. Some believed that the bullet
Speaker 2: that entered the left chest was fired after Garrett had
Speaker 2: fallen to the ground, because if Pat had intended to
Speaker 2: shoot Brazil, he never would have turned his back to him.
Speaker 1: There was a great deal of discussion in the newspapers
Speaker 1: about an alleged conspiracy to kill Pat Garrett. Many people
Speaker 1: believe there was and is more about the circumstances of
Speaker 1: the killing yet to be shared or yet to be discovered.
Speaker 1: Said one local resident to the press at the time, quote,
Speaker 1: I can't understand how Pat Garrett would be reaching over
Speaker 1: into a buggy for a gun, jumping out with a
Speaker 1: gun in his hand, or otherwise giving his opponent first
Speaker 1: chance to shoot. There is something queer about it, and
Speaker 1: the story of the killing does not fit in with
Speaker 1: Garrett's lifelong methods of fighting. Furthermore, it was not like
Speaker 1: Garrett to loose his head and make a bum play
Speaker 1: like that, no matter what the dispute was about.
Speaker 2: The case went to trial about a year after Pat's death. Brazil,
Speaker 2: the defendant, was represented by A. T. Jerney and future
Speaker 2: Secretary of the Interior Albert Bacon Fall. The single witness
Speaker 2: to the shooting, Carl Adamson, never testified. He was under
Speaker 2: arrest for allegedly illegally smuggling Chinese workers into the United
Speaker 2: States at the time. In his own defense, Brazil claimed
Speaker 2: that he did not draw his gun until he'd seen
Speaker 2: Garrett had reached for his shotgun first. Those who knew
Speaker 2: Brazil as a ranch hand testified to his character that
Speaker 2: he'd quote always borne a good reputation and never sought trouble.
Speaker 2: Brazil's trial, which was a one day event, concluded on
Speaker 2: May fourth, nineteen oh nine, and court records show that
Speaker 2: without the star witness Carl Adamson, Brazil was acquitted.
Speaker 1: Pat was killed in nineteen oh eight, and to this day,
Speaker 1: there are theories of conspiracy and a murderous revenge, none
Speaker 1: of which have been substantiated. Sentiment on this is divided.
Speaker 1: Some believed and believe that the killing was done by
Speaker 1: Brasil in self defense, and others just don't buy that story.
Speaker 1: Some theories consider that if Wayne Brazil wasn't actually the killer,
Speaker 1: someone still conspired to execute Garrett, a lawman with the
Speaker 1: kinds of wild West enemies that lawmen have in their
Speaker 1: line of work.
Speaker 2: Beginning the day after Garrett's murder, newspapers began publishing conspiracy
Speaker 2: theories about the incident. Some figured it was a revenge
Speaker 2: killing for the death of Billy the Kid, but that's
Speaker 2: highly unlikely. The men's deaths were nearly thirty years apart.
Speaker 2: That's an awfully long time to hold a grudge, and frankly,
Speaker 2: it's also an awfully long time to stay alive as
Speaker 2: an outlaw in the wild West, it would seem. There
Speaker 2: are also theories regarding cold hard cash. One suggests Garrett's
Speaker 2: death happened because of a land dispute, specifically the sale
Speaker 2: or lease of his Bear Canyon ranch. Another idea suggests
Speaker 2: that maybe he was killed after a financial dispute about
Speaker 2: sheep or goats, and yet still another theory considers nothing
Speaker 2: more than this. Pat Garrett just didn't think he could lose.
Speaker 1: Brazil was the obvious suspect, after all, he turned himself
Speaker 1: in immediately after the incident happened. But once he was acquitted,
Speaker 1: the case went cold and it was fair game at
Speaker 1: pointing fingers at the possibilities. Four other suspects have been
Speaker 1: seriously proposed and or considered. The first three you'll recognize
Speaker 1: from their involvement in Garrett's ranch deal Carl Adamson, Bill Cox,
Speaker 1: and Archie Road. Historian and author Leon Metz wrote of
Speaker 1: Garrett that quote, Bill Cox himself ambushed and killed Garrett,
Speaker 1: and interestingly, Metz also wrote that quote, The Garrett family
Speaker 1: believes that Carl Adamson pulled the trigger. Mark Lee Gardner,
Speaker 1: in his twenty ten book about Billy the Kid and
Speaker 1: Pat Garrett to Hell on a Fast Horse, suggests that
Speaker 1: Archie Road was the killer.
Speaker 2: So that doesn't help us at all. But we said
Speaker 2: four suspects, and the fourth isn't a name we've mentioned
Speaker 2: at all. He's an interesting character in this though. He's
Speaker 2: James Miller, a cowboy and hired killer known as killing
Speaker 2: Jim and Killer Miller. The theory around Miller's involvement is
Speaker 2: that though Brazil confessed, Miller is believed by some to
Speaker 2: have actually committed the murder and was paid to do it.
Speaker 2: But then who paid him? That's just another rabbit hole
Speaker 2: for us to go down.
Speaker 1: So many open ends.
Speaker 2: So many, so many, and wow, I'm I'm not surprised
Speaker 2: to see the three names that popped up as other possibilities.
Speaker 1: I don't know. No, would you like to step into
Speaker 1: the cooler as we consider this mess?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Let us Okay, So this is one of those things
Speaker 1: where my brain is like, it was obviously Brasil right,
Speaker 1: like why would he confess if he didn't, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? But apparently not at least on the
Speaker 1: official finding.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I found myself invoking the phrase that I kind of
Speaker 1: associate with kind of you know, men of Pat Garrett's type. Yes,
Speaker 1: that this whole thing is clear as mud, and so
Speaker 1: that is the name of the drink. And then that
Speaker 1: gave me an idea where I was like, so I
Speaker 1: wanted to make a drink that looks like a thing
Speaker 1: that is obvious and easy to anticipate, and it is
Speaker 1: not that thing. And it's different than anything we've done before.
Speaker 1: I also realized rum has yet to be used this season,
Speaker 1: so it's a rum based drink.
Speaker 2: So we're fixing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're fixing that. Leggety split, And this one is
Speaker 1: very interesting. You're gonna you may initially have a weird
Speaker 1: but come with me, I promise. So the clearest mud
Speaker 1: is very easy. You are going to start with a
Speaker 1: half ounce of the jew from a mandarin orange like
Speaker 1: snack thing, you know what I'm talking about, those little, yeah,
Speaker 1: rather canned mandarin oranges or the little like single serving
Speaker 1: packs that have the little like a plastic film on
Speaker 1: them that you can peel off. Just a half ounce
Speaker 1: of that and then you can eat yummy mandarin oranges,
Speaker 1: hope you like them. And then a half ounce of
Speaker 1: chocolate syrup. And you're actually gonna mix these two things
Speaker 1: together to make sure you get like a smooth consistency
Speaker 1: that the chocolate syrup isn't like clumped.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm excited so far because I really like a
Speaker 2: chocolate orange combination.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: You're like, you just hang on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So to this, you're gonna add two dashes of
Speaker 1: Angustura bitters. If you really want to go harder with orange,
Speaker 1: use orange bitters. Both are good. And then you're gonna
Speaker 1: do an ounce and a half of rum and two
Speaker 1: barspoons of water because you really want to make sure
Speaker 1: that chocolate syrup is thinned out, which it will be
Speaker 1: all ready with the rum, but just it. It's a
Speaker 1: better consistency if you had a little bit of water.
Speaker 1: And then you are gonna shake this in your shaker
Speaker 1: with tons of ice and pour it into like a
Speaker 1: ideally a highball glass with a big ice cube like
Speaker 1: you would use for an old fashion because we're kind
Speaker 1: of in those proportions and you don't want to water
Speaker 1: it down anymore. That's why you use the big ice cube.
Speaker 1: It's not going to melt as fast and do that.
Speaker 2: I'm always looking for an excuse to use my big
Speaker 2: ice cubes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. If you're an old fashioned drinker, you got this.
Speaker 1: You got all your equipment handy. This tastes like a
Speaker 1: it looks like it's gonna be a chocolate milky drink,
Speaker 1: but it's not because there's no dairy components. Because you know,
Speaker 1: most chocolate syrups that you would buy are chocolate flavor
Speaker 1: and sugar. If you have one that has some dairy
Speaker 1: in it. It's pretty minimal at that point, but it
Speaker 1: tastes like a chocolate orange. And what's really interesting is
Speaker 1: that it, at least on my palate, does the same
Speaker 1: thing that a chocolate orange does, where it's like the
Speaker 1: first thing you taste is chocolate, and then the orange
Speaker 1: is the subtle flavor, like the secondary kick in. And
Speaker 1: it's not hyper sweet because we're not doing a ton
Speaker 1: of syrup and we're adding some water, so you get
Speaker 1: the flavor without that heaviness, which I really like.
Speaker 2: I don't think Pat Garrett was that much of a
Speaker 2: sweet guy anyway.
Speaker 1: No, it didn't seem right to do like a mud
Speaker 1: slide or something.
Speaker 2: For it, right, I think you wo have been like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Order that, right, right, something is more appropriate, little more
Speaker 1: grown up. So that is the clearest mud. Now for
Speaker 1: the mock tail, we're gonna do something a little bit
Speaker 1: different because this is one where normally the kinds of
Speaker 1: things that I sub out for rum are things like
Speaker 1: low sugar, white grape juice or another juice, and that's
Speaker 1: too much sweet. So we're gonna instead make this kind
Speaker 1: of like an Italian soda so you're gonna bump up
Speaker 1: the amounts of your mandarin orange juice and your chocolate syrup,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna do an ounce of each will be
Speaker 1: a bit sweeter. But then, and it's this one's very simple.
Speaker 1: You're just gonna stir those two together, make sure they're
Speaker 1: nice and smooth, and then you are going to pour
Speaker 1: those over ice and top with two to three ounces
Speaker 1: of club soda. That two to three is to your taste,
Speaker 1: whatever you like most, and then you kind of have
Speaker 1: an odd chocolate orange soda.
Speaker 2: Which actually sounds just as yummy as the cocktail. Michel
Speaker 2: on this sound equally yummy. Out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're different, for sure, but they do have a
Speaker 1: similar landing point in terms of flavor on your palate,
Speaker 1: which is, I'm sort of fascinated by how this one worked.
Speaker 1: So that is the clearest mud. It seems obvious, but
Speaker 1: it's not much like Pat Garrett's case, because it seems obvious,
Speaker 1: but it's apparently not. It's very shady. I feel like
Speaker 1: the directions of those bullets are really where we get
Speaker 1: very very confused in all of this.
Speaker 2: I feel as Holly and I had a separate conversation
Speaker 2: about how the coroner's report differs from what Pats friends
Speaker 2: and family I think may have happened with those bullets,
Speaker 2: and it shows exactly what conspiracy brain can do to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just trying to trying to figure figure it out.
Speaker 1: But in any case, hopefully this beverage will not do
Speaker 1: anything bad to your brain. Please drink responsibly always. I
Speaker 1: love to drink, but I'm actually not a big fan
Speaker 1: of getting drunk. That's that's for when I was much younger. Now,
Speaker 1: I just like to experience a yummy drink. Yes, hope
Speaker 1: you do too. Yes, we hope you do too. We're
Speaker 1: so thankful that you've spent this time with us, and
Speaker 1: we will be right back here again next week with
Speaker 1: another cold case and a drink to go with it.
Speaker 1: Criminalia is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.