WEBVTT - Murdered Maiden 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.760 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.559 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.680 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:39.800 This is buried Bones. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.760 Hey, Paul, Hi, Kate, how are you. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.640 I'm doing well. I have a question because every once 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.440 in a while I get very down about true crime. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.039 It's hard to work in this space all the time. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.320 It can be very sad, of course, and I think 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.400 the more that I allow myself to be affected by it, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.039 the more I'm sort of like, oh, my gosh, I 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.360 need the inspirational stuff. So, since you were in the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.280 field and you worked for so long, what were the 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.000 things that you saw, or maybe it's cases that you 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.120 worked where they could have been awful but you were 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.800 inspired by something. I don't know if it's the family 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.400 or a survivor or anything like that, where you just 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.040 kind of thought, Wow, this is a new perspective and 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.600 one that I would not think somebody would be able 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.560 to muster this up, but they have. Can you think 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:51.360 of anything like that? 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:57.040 Well, I can think of multiple examples of I guess, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:02.800 surprising resilience. Most notably, there's a case. This is the 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.680 Zianna Fairchild case. Seven year old girl. She goes missing 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:11.239 and she's missing for a long time. Her great biological 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.160 great aunt Stephanie, but she was one who actually raised 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.680 Theianna because Sianna's bio mom was in prison at the 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.600 time Zianna was born. Stephanie raised Theanna believe it or not, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.320 out here in Colorado Springs before moving when bio mom 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:33.320 wanted her daughter back, Ziana went to Valleeo, California with 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:38.240 bio mom and the boyfriend, and Stephanie ultimately moved out 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.880 to Valleo. When Zianna went missing after having to walk 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.440 alone to her bus stop. She was a missing girl. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.440 I forget exactly how long, like a year, and then 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.679 her skull was found in the Los g Ados mountains, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.240 a dog brought her skull back. Stephanie reached out to 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.359 me when she found out about who I was and 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.960 asked if I could help on Zianna's case, which I did, 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.120 and I became friends with Stephanie. And here is a mother, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.320 you know, when like I'm trying to find Ziana, the 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.640 rest is Sanna. That was part of my goal is 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:19.680 to get Stephanie Siana back. And I distinctly remember I 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.840 was so crushed when I found out that where Ziana 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.440 had been dumped, this is where you have wild boar 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.120 and wild boar eat carry on bones and all. And 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.880 I had to tell Stephanie, you know, I was like, oh, 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.840 I don't think you're going to get you're going to 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.200 find Ziana. I don't think she's out there anymore. And 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:45.119 I so dreaded that conversation and I kind of led 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:49.880 into this going it's going to be hard, and Stephanie just, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.120 you know, straight up looked me in the eye and 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.800 said I need to hear it. And I told her, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.360 you know, and you could see her eyes waver but 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.440 she just became even more resolute after that, and then ultimately, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.320 you know, she's confronting Zianna's killer, who was Kurtistine Anderson. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.760 She's literally going into jail confronting him. She's having to 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:15.280 correspond with him. And I know she has a book 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:19.919 out about her correspondence with her daughter's killer, you know, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.600 and you could see through the letters, the exchange of 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.800 these letters, the torment that he was putting her through, 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.720 because this is when she didn't know Sianna was dead 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.160 before the skull had been found. But in many ways 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.359 she was. She was inspiring because even with such a 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:45.880 horrific tragedy, she really showed kind of perseverance. And you know, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.160 there's so many aspects to her story that you know, 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.560 it's just it is one of those things where you go, yes, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.640 this is she she suffered through so much, but she 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.680 really sets the bar in turn terms of showing a 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.000 level of strength and optimistic outlook in the face of 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.479 the worst thing imaginable. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.720 Well, and I know that you've experienced that with Golden 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.320 State Killer, you know, survivors and families and stuff, and 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.400 you know, I think, what an awful way to see 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.120 that to get you have to be able to get 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.440 an inspiration from it. But I think about that too 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.640 when we talk about our cases and the way that people, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:31.000 particularly in the eighteen hundreds just tracked down killers, and 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.200 the you know, the detectives with the magnets on the 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.480 fishing line trying to find desperately find a weapon that's 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.120 been thrown in the river, and you know, Spillsbury, I 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.320 think pulling off some like these amazing things in the 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.520 nineteen thirties and forties in England. I think, you know, 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.320 I always am trying to pick out the things that 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.400 are not the things that I think people find entertaining. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.600 I think it's the things that are for me, are 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.760 touching and that really do show character. And I tell 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.760 my it's that when you see whether you have grit 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.400 and what your character is oftentimes is when terrible things 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.360 are happening, and hopefully terrible things don't happen, but at 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.760 the same time, it's like, wow, who would have thought 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.320 that the person could have gotten through that? So I 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.640 was thinking that you've witnessed so many of those types 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.960 of stories that you must run into families where you 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.520 just go, man, I don't know how somebody can do 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.320 all this, And then it's inspirational. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.080 It is, you know, because I think about, you know, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.800 what if it happened to somebody that was close to me, 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.240 you know, how would I respond? Yeah, you know, so 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.680 to see Stephanie, to see some of these other victims 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:40.480 that I've interacted with and how they've used these negative 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.920 experiences and these tragedies in order to do good afterwards, 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:46.600 you know, that's very inspiring. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.960 Good. Well, I'm glad to hear some of those. And 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.400 I wanted to start with that question for you because 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.640 the story we're going to talk about is one of those, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.400 for me, very hard stories. And this is graphic, for 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.520 even for me graphic. There's a sexual assault, so we're 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.320 going to do you know, a trigger warning for that. 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.640 But but particularly some of the details that we'll talk 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.760 about with the injuries in the murder are difficult, and 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:15.680 I just want to tell people that we're going to 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.680 do a really good job I think of making sure 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.080 we only include the stuff we need to include. I 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.040 just really I cannot stand it when I either read 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.560 or hear or watch something in the true crime space 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.080 where it's so graphic and there's no point because now 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:29.560 I can pick out the things that you would want 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.480 to hear, and if it's not something that's going to 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.640 add and it feels gratuitous. I don't think it's good 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:35.520 to add you know. 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.560 Sure, that's that's part of the struggle. Like if I'm 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.720 listening to a case or being asked about a case. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.640 You know, for me, I need to know all no, right, 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.880 And I'm used to having all you know and and 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:54.520 trying to, you know, juggle the true crime aspect versus 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.160 me doing what I know I can do if I 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.600 have all the information. That's always been struggle. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.240 Yeah, and I give you all the information, but I 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.480 really try to think about it as making it not 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.920 gratuitous because it, boy, it bugs me. Anyway, we are 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.440 going back to the eighteen hundreds, which makes me very happy. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.920 We're going to Pembrook, New Hampshire. So let's go ahead 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.840 and set the scene. So this is relatively rural New Hampshire. 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.640 It's eighteen seventy five, and most of the people who 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.280 live in this area are farmers or they work for 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.920 one of several nearby mills. And this town is about 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.960 seven miles away from the city of Concord, which is 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.960 New Hampshire's capital. So small area. And we're talking about 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.559 a couple of different towns, and I'll explain why in 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.000 a little bit. So here's the main family. It's the 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.920 Langmade family and they live on a farm about two 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.720 miles outside of Pembrook, so even more rural, and they're 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.199 in a village called Suncook. They have two kids. One's 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.000 a girl named Josie who's seventeen, and they have a 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.559 boy named Waldo love that name, who is sixteen. And 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.480 both of these kids attend school at the Pembrooke Academy, 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.440 which is in Pembrooke, in the town. Their normal schedule 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.400 would be that they would walk together, the sister and 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.240 the brother, and then they would meet up with one 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.760 of Josie's friends, who is a girl her age called 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.000 Lilia Fowler on the way, who is a neighbor. So 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.000 here's what happens on the day that we need to 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.800 focus on the morning of October fourth, Josie is running 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.240 late and her brother Waldo is ahead of her. He says, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:35.839 I've got to go to school. I don't want to 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.800 be late to school, and she says fine. Lilia waits 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:43.400 for Josie. She's there. Josie's there, but Lilia says, I've 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.319 got to go. I can't be late for school. So 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.840 she catches a ride into town on a passing wagon, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.040 which I guess was the thing. I mean, you just 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.760 hitch a ride with somebody who's you probably a neighbor. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.520 These are small areas. They probably knew each other, so, 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.600 you know, her brother and her friend had seen her, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.280 and obviously Josie's going to be the focus here, and 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.360 she was at home trying to get out the door. 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.440 So the path that these kids would normally take would 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.400 be past all the neighbors' houses and then there's this 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:18.040 stretch that goes through some woods. By the afternoon, Josie's 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.080 parents learn that she never made it to school. So 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.880 Waldo made it to school, and then Lilia, who caught 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.400 a ride on a wagon, made it to school. Josie didn't. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.760 So this is in the afternoon. The question was once 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.560 the parents found out, who do they talk to? They 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.720 talked to the people along the pathway where Josie would 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.880 have gone by herself, including through the woods, so they said, 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.000 where's our daughter? Have you seen her this morning? Witnesses 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.680 in several of these houses, including the one that is 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.640 the last house before you enter the woods, say they 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.240 saw her walking that morning when she was, you know, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.600 just running a little bit late, she was walking briskly 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.920 in the direction of the school. The parents find out 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.640 that she never made it to school. They were talking 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.320 to the neighbors. The neighbors spread the word. Investigations back 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.960 then were primarily handled by local constables and city marshals. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.000 I wanted to find out because I was thinking, Okay, 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.959 when are they going to sound the alarm to investigators? 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.240 But these are you know, these investigators were far flung, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.319 especially in these little rural towns, so it looks like 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.400 they were doing their own investigation. First, the officers worked 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.840 part time, so they were like tax collectors and officers 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.439 at the same time. And obviously, you know, they had 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.880 investigated cases, but this might have been outside their range. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.679 So within a half an hour of the parents finding 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.800 out that their daughter's missing, there's a search party, and 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.320 over that afternoon and into the evening, one hundred men 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.360 accumulate to search Josie's route to school, and as the 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.760 night falls, they used torches to light the way. Before 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.880 I get to you know the next part of this, 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.319 I'll say, they're looking at her last movements, and then 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.640 they do. They form a line by torchlight and sweep 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.640 the woods, which as somebody who loves sort of darker, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.720 kind of creepy things must have been an incredible sight. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.760 It's like nighttime grid search. I guess it would depend 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.560 on the conditions. But would they do grid searches and 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.720 overnight searches in the middle of the night even today? 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.040 I mean, is this usually in all if there's somebody 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.120 who's missing, who's at risk, would it be bad weather 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.520 or what would stop them from doing something a search 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:29.960 at night like this all night? 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.960 Well, it really is down to the exigency, you know, 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.280 and here you have a missing girl that's at risk. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.400 The people that are in charge of search and rescue 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.400 will make the decision as to whether the conditions are 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.360 not viable for the search. But most certainly you see 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.400 at night, you'll see these types of searches, not with fire, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:58.440 with flashlights, you know, but you have a grid search 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.240 where everybody is within arm's length of each other, if 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.480 not a little bit wider spaced, and they are told 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.720 they have to overlap, you know, they're what they're searching, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.679 so everybody's looking. You know, there's multiple eyes on each 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.360 spot of land that they're walking through. And there's other 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.040 types of search patterns that can be done, so, you know, 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.080 back in eighteen seventy five. To be frank, I'm quite 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.360 impressed that they are doing a grid search. The order 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.680 of magnitude of how tough it is at night to 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.200 see versus during the day is huge. You know, you're 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.640 so much better during the day to see things. But 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.480 when you have an at risk youth, you do what 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:40.920 you can. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.360 Well, let me set this scene. They're in these woods. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.160 I have a picture of the woods, eighteen seventy five picture, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.959 maybe a little bit older, but I know they find 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.640 our body at nine o'clock, so it's pitch black outside. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.600 It's just them with moonlight and starlight and the storches, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.440 and they find her about half a mile into the 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.240 woods from the road. This is twelve hours later. So 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.400 if you look at your little packet, only look at 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.760 page one. For me, this to me looks like the 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.520 road that would be, you know, Academy Road, I believe 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.880 is where the road that she took to go through 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:19.520 these woods. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.520 Yeah, so this picture is showing God, it's maybe half 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:29.120 the width of a standard road today, but it looks 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:38.360 like it's dirt. It's going through very dense brush, trees, bushes, 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.840 you know, it's on both sides of this road, so 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.400 I can see the road kind of turn to the 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.920 left in the background and just disappear from sight. You know. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:54.720 So this obviously there's limited visibility, you know, these kids 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.360 walking down this path, and they would be doing this 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.040 on a routine basis, you know. So that comes into 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:07.680 my mind as whoever killed Josie? You know, is this 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.600 somebody that knew the pattern and when he saw that 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.680 she was isolated, which is unusual considering she's normally with 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.920 her brother and her friend that just was happened to 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:25.360 station themselves at a location and sees Josie alone, fully 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.320 expecting kids to be walking through at this roughly this 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.480 period of time, you know, or is there somebody that 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.120 just happens you know, this was Josie a victim of 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.000 opportunity right now, can't say either way, but most certainly 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.960 an offender could easily hide along this route and there'd 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.160 be no witnesses to see that there's somebody there. Yeah. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.920 Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the investigators say 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.040 about was this a crime of opportunity or what happened. 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.320 Let me give you the details about what happened with 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.560 Josie so she's seventeen, and when they come up on her, 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.760 they immediately note many things. She's been decapitated. Her clothes 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.880 are badly torn and covered in blood. Her body appears 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.440 to be badly mutilated, though the full extent is not 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.160 immediately clear, and they're not touching her. So once they 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.600 locate her, I'm assuming they have people sit there all 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.280 night until the next day. The searchers show up, and 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.800 then we'll have a corner investigator show up too. The 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.200 next day, they find her head deeper in the woods. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.400 It's wrapped in a blue oilcloth cape that she had 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.440 been wearing when she left the house. Oil Cloth is 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.280 a fabric that's been coated to make it water repellent, 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.360 probably like lindseed or something lindseed oil. We're going to 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.040 have three doctors do the autopsy, which is good. I'm 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.160 actually impressed with some of the stuff that happens in 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.440 this case. We talk about investigators all the time, but 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.360 just at first Blush, they said that her face has 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.200 been cut, there's a mark on her cheek that resembles 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.360 a boot heel, other things. Close to the road, the 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.320 searchers find a broken three foot club. It sounds like 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.760 it's cracked, but it didn't break into two pieces. The 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.560 club is made of red oak and an inch and 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.480 a half thick. It appears to have been cut recently. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.680 One side of the club seems to have been whittled 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.760 to form a handle. They also find her schoolwork near 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.800 this club, and an apple which everybody said she had 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.600 been carrying earlier that morning. What do you think so far? 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.879 You raise your eyebrows when it was very clear that 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.119 someone had actually carried her head somewhere, not let it 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.560 roll down the hill or something. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:42.720 Well, I think right now. Absent other behavioral indicators, identification 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.160 of the body would often be done by taking a look, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.320 having people who know the victim, by taking a look 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.840 at the victim, and obviously the faces the primary feature 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.719 that people will use to identify who the victim is. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.840 The decapitation may have been a way to just delay 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.120 the identification of the body, but I can't say that 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.920 with confidence without really knowing more of what happened to her, 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:18.000 because there may be some very sick reasons that the 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:23.159 offender decapitated her. The initial thought, you know, her clothes 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:28.320 are torn, of course they're bloody, her body is mutilated, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.200 and I can extrapolate in terms of the types of mutilation. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.200 This is sounding like a type of offender that I've 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:42.080 seen at work with other victims, both in real life 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.159 as well in my own cases as well as textbook examples. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.520 The presence of this three foot club that has a 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.960 handle already whittled into it, I think one of the 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.359 questions that I have about that is this, is this 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:02.520 an object that has some sort of purpose in you know, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.720 for whatever could be happening in this particular area, or 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.800 was this an object that the offender made in order 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.439 to hurt somebody? And if that's the case and the 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.520 offender has that with him, that's showing pre planning. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.919 I can tell you this is not the kind of 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.360 object that would have been produced in these two towns 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.600 that are next to each other, Primbrook, where you know 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.520 she goes to school, and then where she's from. So 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.600 this is a this appears to be custom made. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.760 Okay, So you know this This sounds like the offender 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:41.280 is in this location and is armed with a pre 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.800 manufactured weapon. Could suggest that the offender was lying in 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.560 wait for the right opportunity, and Josie was the right opportunity, 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:56.080 Because I imagine that it's not just Josie, Lilia and 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.040 Waldo walking to school through this route. There's probably we 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.679 had waves of children that are walking through and so 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:11.119 here is a source of victim pool and now you 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.680 have a predator going to where the praise at and 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.320 just happens at that particular day. Josie, because she was late, 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.080 was the child that was isolated and the predator pounced. 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.600 Well, I was going to save this for a later 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.919 but because you've been talking about it and you've gotten 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.879 so good at mentioning things that I am going to 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.440 tell you about. Like literally, I'll say, oh, I need 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.160 to tell Paul this, and then you'll say it. It's 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.399 like we're right here, Paul, you and me right here. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.560 I'm going to go ahead and tell you now. So, yes, 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.360 you're right, this is a route that other kids would 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.960 have used. This is an interesting part once the investigation 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.760 really gets going into her murder. A classmate of Josie's 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.960 said that on the day that she was murdered, that 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.520 morning he was walking to school on that same road 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:00.320 and at the point right before there's a hill that 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.080 you climb and you could see the school and then 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.760 it's literally all downhill. After that, at the point right 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.600 before the final hill, he heard a rustling in the 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:13.240 bushes by the road. Kids. They liked to hide in 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.720 these bushes and jump out at each other, which is 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:17.920 sure a good way to get punched in the face 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.200 as far as I'm concerned. They love to scare each other. 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.000 And that's what the classmate thought it was happening. When 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.800 he heard the wrestling, he said, I know who did this, 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.800 Tom or whoever? Some kid and he said, you know, 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.399 he didn't jump out at him. So he just went 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.160 on to school and said, well, he's going to scare 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.040 the crap out of somebody. But then he got to 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.280 school and that kid was already there, so it wasn't 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.800 Tom or whoever. That kid was Okay. So there's a 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.479 witness who said he heard a rustling and it clearly 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.840 wasn't a classmate, and they had talked to everybody and said, 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:47.439 now it wasn't me. 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:49.600 And you said that this was at the top of 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:50.320 the hill. 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.119 He said, at the point right before the final hill, 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.399 So at the bottom of the hill, and there were bushes. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.159 Well you saw the bushes, I mean. 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.280 Yeah, so this is where if this is the offender. 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:05.320 And I think you know, it's likely it could have been. 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.320 You know, part of the evaluation of this location and 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:11.760 you put yourself in the offender's mind, is that the 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.399 offender is not going to choose, let's say, a switchback 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.240 location where you have no visibility down either stretch of 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.960 the road. You don't know who's coming, you know, so 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:26.280 you're going to position yourself where you can see victims approaching, 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.840 so you can evaluate the circumstances. Plus you can determine 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.320 further off in the distance, are there other people coming, 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:40.159 and then start plotting. If you see somebody that's isolated, 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.520 like Josie, and you look past Josie, because you've purposely 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:46.880 chosen a location where you can see down the road, 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.960 you see nobody is coming from that direction. I now 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:55.000 have my opportunity and the wrestling this classmate, who is 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:59.280 a male classmate. You know, I'm wondering if the offender 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:04.280 considered this classmate a victim and decided, for one reason 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.080 or another not to attack. And it may have been 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:09.920 because this was a male and that's not this offender's 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:14.600 preferred victim. It may be that he saw other kids 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.639 starting to approach and backed away. Who knows, you know, 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.439 but this location tends to suggest that, yes, you have 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.480 an offender who knows these kids are flowing through this 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:28.640