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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust for trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived. To you

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Speaker 3: never a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults explain

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Speaker 2: believe and manipulation from two fake doctors who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I'm low Lablanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today, our guest is Alison Miller, actress, filmmaker, and former

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Speaker 2: client of a culty health clinic run by a couple

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Speaker 2: who claim to know how to heal her chronic bladder

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Speaker 2: condition called interstitial sostiis also known as I SEE, also

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Speaker 2: now known as painful bladder syndrome. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about when the pain began for her, how all three

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Speaker 2: of us and so many more people we know I've

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Speaker 2: experienced recurring health issues in the Pelvic region, and how

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Speaker 2: little studied women's conditions are leaving an opening for people

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Speaker 2: searching for answers to be preyed upon by those who

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Speaker 2: claim to have them.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us how she first met the couple we'll

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Speaker 1: call Teresa and Bell, how at first their treatments seemed

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Speaker 1: to help, and how over time they put her on

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Speaker 1: a regiment that had her stop her antidepressants, restrict her

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Speaker 1: diet to the point where she was only eating three foods,

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Speaker 1: and limit her activities to where she was no longer

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Speaker 1: engaging with life. Plus how she stepped away from the

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Speaker 1: couple and their message boards, and how much better she's

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Speaker 1: feeling now.

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Speaker 2: All that and more coming right after. Megan tells me

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Speaker 2: her culdiest thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, I guess a little like warning,

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Speaker 1: we do talk a lot about the vagina today.

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Speaker 2: We talk a lot about the vagina today in the

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Speaker 2: vaginal region. If there's any squeamish listeners listening, you know

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Speaker 2: you can skip it. Lots of vagina talk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, my cultiest thing does involve pussy, but it's cats.

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with cults. I'm in the cult of cat.

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Speaker 1: I got a cat ten years ago. She's my entire life.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't love her anymore. Now I live in a

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Speaker 1: house where my boyfriend also has a cat. Then we

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Speaker 1: took in a cat that was going to be put

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Speaker 1: down at the pound to foster it for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days, but of course we kept it, and now

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Speaker 1: we have three cats. Of course, now my roommate brought

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Speaker 1: home to more cats, kittens that he found at a

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Speaker 1: Vaughn's parking lot that are kept in our garden room

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Speaker 1: that we're trying to put up for adoption. Please somebody

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Speaker 1: adopt these two twin adorable kittens. Anyway, the other day,

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Speaker 1: I wake up, I think I'm coming downstairs to a

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Speaker 1: normal world. Instead it's my romate and his friend, and

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Speaker 1: his friend's like, yo, we brought my cat over last

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Speaker 1: night to meet the kittens, and it got out and

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Speaker 1: it ran away, and it's like outside in your yard.

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Speaker 1: We live up in a hill. Our yard is giant.

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Speaker 1: There's coyotes out there. Oh no, it's not even his cat.

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Speaker 1: It's his girlfriend's cat. Okay. So I'm like, well, we

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Speaker 1: have to find it. So I spend an entire saturday.

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Speaker 1: I'm like searching the hills for this cat I fall down,

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Speaker 1: he'll land on a cactus. I'm like losing my shit

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Speaker 1: finding this cat.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Finally I find the cat. Okay, it's under a tree,

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Speaker 1: like under a bush, mar is the word. So I like,

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Speaker 1: finally coax it out. It's on our property. It's where

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Speaker 1: our cat head when it got away. I get it

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Speaker 1: in a little bag. It scratches the shit out of me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like bleeding all of it. But it's fine because

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Speaker 1: I'm in the cult of cats. I'll do anything for them.

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Speaker 1: I bring it into this guy and I'm like, here,

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Speaker 1: I found your cat, and he's like, that's not my cat.

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Speaker 1: So then I had to look this cat in the

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Speaker 1: eye that I just kidnapped and be like I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: You're free to go. And I did end up finding

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Speaker 1: the cat.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank god.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyway, I'll do anything for a cat.

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Speaker 2: Listen, not really a cult, but I'll take it.

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Speaker 1: It is kind of when every TikTok video, Instagram video,

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Speaker 1: everything is just me looking at cats.

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Speaker 2: Mine are pugs. Yeah, I saw any husky I saw.

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Speaker 1: The other day on Milrose a pug Pomeranian.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I want that.

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Speaker 1: Our producer I just heard let out of like an

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Speaker 1: exclamation of glee. He was so excited.

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Speaker 2: Would you call it a Puggerini?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I asked the guy what kind

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Speaker 1: of dog is that?

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Speaker 2: I go, what's that called?

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Speaker 1: And he was like pleasy, Like he gave me the

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Speaker 1: name of the dog. I'm like, I don't want the

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Speaker 1: name of your dog, I want what kind of dog

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Speaker 1: it is?

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Speaker 2: Pleasy, I just made Okay, good name? Is that why?

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, what kind? What is this ridiculous creature? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: That that's my cultistory?

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Speaker 2: Adorable?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well the dog was the cat missing wasn't. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I please adopt these two kittens and join the cult

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Speaker 1: of cats. What's your cultist thing?

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Speaker 2: In the week, I've been auditioning actors from a project

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Speaker 2: I'm about to film and they have to play a

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Speaker 2: cult leader like figure, and I love it so fun.

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Speaker 2: I feel like so like grateful when anyone on conditions

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Speaker 2: for me, because I'm like, you took time to.

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Speaker 3: Learn these lines to be in my little short film

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Speaker 3: music video. That's so nice.

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Speaker 2: But I was doing zoom callbacks the past couple of days,

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Speaker 2: and dude, some of these actors, there's one I was like,

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Speaker 2: I am afraid of you. He's so good. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think I have to cast him. But I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm like feeling like I like, I have to do

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Speaker 2: whatever this man says, and like if I don't, I'll

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Speaker 2: be in very big trouble. But if I do, I'll

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Speaker 2: get totally rewarded.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really.

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Speaker 2: Just fascinating to like see I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, with the normal personality.

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Speaker 2: He was so nice, he was so chill, he was

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Speaker 2: so such a normal guy. But he told me that

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Speaker 2: he grew up in a cult, so he knows. Yes,

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Speaker 2: isn't that fascinating. He's Norwegian. These are Norwegian actors we're

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Speaker 2: talking about here.

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Speaker 1: The last of us had the best cult leader I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen him TV.

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Speaker 2: We talked about him. He was such a good actor.

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Speaker 2: I've been looking for an actor like that, but I

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Speaker 2: have to look in Norway and the pool is much smaller.

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Speaker 2: But of course, the one that happened to be like,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, just like very like this is a

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Speaker 2: visceral performance is the guy who was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I actually grew up in a very extreme evangelical sect.

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Speaker 2: There was a fuse that happened. Now, yeah, it happens everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Norway just seems so free. Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: Switzerland and Norway? I just imagine them being like cults.

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Speaker 1: We're too busy.

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Speaker 2: Do you mean Sweden? No, Okay, it's a different part

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Speaker 2: of Europe, but you know, no, I just mean these places.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, have you seen Midsommer? Of course there are

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Speaker 2: cults everywhere. You can imagine as in Switzerland because it's neutral.

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Speaker 1: No, there's just none there.

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Speaker 2: Because they wear those cute little outfits.

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Speaker 1: I've just I'm I just I'm convinced. If you know

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Speaker 1: somebody in Switzerland and a cult, give us.

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Speaker 2: I cannot wait to get our Swiss cult DMS.

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Speaker 1: I can't either. I need it.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm excited to probably work with.

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Speaker 1: This actor on the shoot and oh way, I cannot wait. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's exciting.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, speaking of actors, Yeah, cuts, should we talk to Alison?

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Speaker 1: Let's do it all right. This show is sponsored by

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Speaker 1: Better Help.

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Speaker 2: One of the things we like to advocate for people

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Speaker 2: to do is to see a therapist. Talk to someone.

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Speaker 2: And if that's something you're interested in, you might want

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Speaker 2: to give better Help a.

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Speaker 1: Try visit betterhelp dot com. Slash Trust to get ten

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Speaker 1: percent off your first month.

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Speaker 2: We go through our weeks. We're trying to get work done.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to spend time with our families and our partners.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to get the house cleaned. We're trying to

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Speaker 2: do so much stuff all at the same time, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes we forget to take care of our brains and

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Speaker 2: our feelings and our mental health, and then we wonder

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Speaker 2: why we are stressed or depressed or just really needing

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Speaker 2: to talk to someone.

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Speaker 1: If you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try.

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Speaker 1: It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited

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Speaker 2: Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with

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Speaker 1: It's Better Help h e lp dot com slash Trust.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Alison Miller.

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Speaker 1: To trust me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here, and thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for reaching out. I'm very, very excited to hear your

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Speaker 2: story today. I feel like it's highly relatable and a

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Speaker 2: lot of our listeners will have experienced something akin to this,

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Speaker 2: even if it didn't go on as deeply. First of all,

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Speaker 2: you're an actor, I am. Where do people see you

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Speaker 2: on the television right now?

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Speaker 3: I was on five seasons of a show called A

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Speaker 3: Million Little Things, which is always hard to say, and

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Speaker 3: that is on Hulu. I think all the seasons are

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Speaker 3: up there. That's the most recent one.

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Speaker 2: So watch that cool Thirteen Reasons.

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Speaker 3: Why Thirteen Reasons on Netflix?

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Speaker 2: Yes, amazing. So before you were cast on these shows, though,

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Speaker 2: you had an experience one might call culty. Starts from

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Speaker 2: the beginning, what year did you discover that you had

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Speaker 2: this health issue?

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Speaker 3: This is basically the ten year anniversary of me being diagnosed,

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Speaker 3: or not even being diagnosed, but starting to come down

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Speaker 3: with symptoms which happened overnight. It was like, I'm fine

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Speaker 3: one day. The next day I wake up and I

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Speaker 3: think I have a uti. I go to a doctor.

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Speaker 3: I go through nine rounds of antibiotics and this is

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Speaker 3: a nightmare, yeah, truly, and it just doesn't go away.

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Speaker 3: And that's when eventually a doctor tells me, oh, you

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Speaker 3: have interstitial cystitis, which is sort of a blanket term

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Speaker 3: for there's something wrong with your bladder, and we the

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Speaker 3: medical community don't know what it is, and so we

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Speaker 3: call it this. Yeah, it's sort of a diagnosis of exclusion. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it just feels like you have a UTI all the time.

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Speaker 1: Does it happen to men as well?

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Speaker 3: It does happen to men. It's a lot less common.

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Speaker 3: I think it's something like ninety eight percent women. But

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Speaker 3: I did meet one man over the last ten years,

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Speaker 3: randomly at a coffee shop who overheard me talking about

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Speaker 3: it with a friend and said, oh, I had that. Crazy.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I've never heard of a man having it.

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Speaker 3: It's very uncommon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have an unusual amount of girlfriends who have

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Speaker 2: been diagnosed with this like overarching term for us. Something's

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Speaker 2: wrong that makes you feel like you need to pee

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Speaker 2: all the time and we don't know why. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I thought that I had it. But then I saw

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Speaker 2: eurogynecologist who was like the only person I could find

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Speaker 2: in southern California who seemed to specialize and actually know

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Speaker 2: what she was talking about. She said, I had a

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Speaker 2: different thing called overactive bladder, which is apparently had to

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Speaker 2: feel a lot without paint regardless. Yeah, there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of people just sharing all my letter info.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny to talk about publicly.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of women who have this extremely painful,

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Speaker 2: extremely uncomfortable thing that's going on, and we all think

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Speaker 2: it's a UTI at first and get like just pumped

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Speaker 2: with antibiotics that don't work, and it's awful, awful. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like you had an even more extreme experience

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Speaker 2: and it became like.

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Speaker 3: The absolute worst thing that's ever happened to me. And

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Speaker 3: I would never wish on my worst enemy. But I'm

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Speaker 3: in a place now where I can talk about it

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Speaker 3: because it is so much better and I have sort

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Speaker 3: of figured it out for myself. And I think that

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Speaker 3: is the hardest thing about it is that it's not

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Speaker 3: one cause it's not one condition, and so there's not

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Speaker 3: one cure. Like there's not a pill you can take.

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Speaker 3: I mean there's a pill they give you, but it

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Speaker 3: ruins your liver and now causes eye damage and costs

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Speaker 3: like five hundred dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: So which a pill is that.

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Speaker 3: It's called Elmeron. It's I did it for a year

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Speaker 3: and then my liver was like no more, thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that is the problem, and that is why I ended

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Speaker 3: up in something that I considered and have been told

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Speaker 3: it was very cult like is because all of these

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Speaker 3: doctors you go to and all of the research that's

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Speaker 3: being done, there's not enough research. There's not enough information.

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Speaker 3: And I think it is because it affects mostly women exactly,

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Speaker 3: and we just walk around with pain all the time

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Speaker 3: because it's like we bleed every month, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: if your pelvisharsts, that's normal, it's fine. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's really really destructive and things need to change and

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Speaker 3: more research needs to be done.

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Speaker 1: That's why I asked if men had it too, because

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Speaker 1: what I've found is that I had a condition called BV.

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Speaker 1: Have you guys ever had BV before?

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Speaker 2: It's horrible.

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Speaker 1: It's horrible, right, oh about it? Okay, so I got

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Speaker 1: it once. It's not sexually been listeners. I transmitted disease

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Speaker 1: enjoy but it's like it's yeah, so it's just something

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Speaker 1: that happens. And the doctor was like, here's some anthibiotics.

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Speaker 1: It wouldn't go away. Every time I like made out

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Speaker 1: with a man, I would get it again. So I

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Speaker 1: just became celibate for like seven years because I was

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Speaker 1: just like, I don't I would rather not have sex

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Speaker 1: than deal with this. Yeah, and every time you go

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Speaker 1: to a doctor, there's no research being done. Some women

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Speaker 1: who were like married or like, I'm suicidal. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to do. I can't have Like I was

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Speaker 1: able to just not have sex and not have it,

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Speaker 1: but like other people are in relationships and they couldn't.

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Speaker 2: But there was no research there.

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Speaker 1: And there was the craziest ideas on the internet that

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Speaker 1: I would try because I was like, what, like some

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Speaker 1: were put bleach in your vagina and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I will, like exactly what are you going

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Speaker 1: to do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the home remedies are extensive, and most of them

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Speaker 2: are like very questionable.

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Speaker 3: So much weird garlic going in places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: I read that I was lucky, no whatever. I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's like a lot of people are like their baby

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Speaker 1: smells really bad, and mine smelled like a peppermint oh stop.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah I ever heard, but I would just

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Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, I smell peppermint. Why So

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Speaker 2: you know that was lucky.

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Speaker 3: But it's like, but you stay lucky and you're still

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Speaker 3: like not able to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it really sucked. And I tried everything and

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Speaker 1: It was so frustrating because I'm also a spiritual person

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Speaker 1: who believes in like, I must believe something wrong about myself?

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Speaker 1: Am I not saying the right affirmation? Like I just

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Speaker 1: got deep into different holes?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so apropos No, I definitely have been down that

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Speaker 3: road too, where you're reading like Carolyn Mace or I

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Speaker 3: don't know how to pronounce her name, where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: if there's something wrong with your for me bladder, it

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Speaker 3: means that you're rageful against something. I was just like,

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Speaker 3: where's the rage? I don't feel it. Yeah, I'm rageful

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Speaker 3: because this is happening right right?

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Speaker 2: So how did you find this couple that purported to

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Speaker 2: have the answer.

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Speaker 3: So after finally kind of reaching the end of the

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Speaker 3: road with Western medicine because I didn't want to do

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Speaker 3: these very invasive, sort of archaic things that they wanted

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Speaker 3: me to do, the options that are available are like

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Speaker 3: just horrible. So one urologist I spoke to who I

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Speaker 3: had seen before because I had kidney stones as a kid.

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Speaker 3: He said that he had a patient who had a

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Speaker 3: lot of luck with fibromyalgia. Seeing this their sort of osteopath.

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Speaker 3: So I went to this woman and started working with

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Speaker 3: her and nothing was changing. And as we do, you

329
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Speaker 3: go online and start searching what's wrong with me? And

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Speaker 3: found this clinic in LA that specialized in interstitial cystiitis

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Speaker 3: I'll just call it icy because it's too hard to

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Speaker 3: say all of that. And I found their information and

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Speaker 3: it was like they had message boards, they had a community,

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Speaker 3: they had a list of foods that you should avoid.

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Speaker 3: And so before I even made an appointment with them,

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Speaker 3: I started on this diet and it's basically a five

337
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 3: tier thing where you start at level one. If your

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Speaker 3: symptoms calmed down enough, you can move on to level two,

339
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Speaker 3: but it takes months. And this treatment they tell you

340
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Speaker 3: upfront takes years.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh.

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Speaker 3: So I started the diet and suddenly it felt like

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Speaker 3: things were calming down, and I thought, okay, well this

344
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Speaker 3: is this is different and this is an answer that

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Speaker 3: I haven't found yet.

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Speaker 1: Before you go on, what was the diet to treat

347
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Speaker 1: the first level of icy?

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Speaker 3: So there is a traditional icy diet that's on all

349
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Speaker 3: of the websites that deal with it, and it's generally

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Speaker 3: no acid, like you stay away from tomatoes, lemon, coffee,

351
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Speaker 3: just very bland icy thing. Yes, spicy things these people

352
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 3: had a very different idea of what it should be.

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Speaker 3: And it was truly like, there are ten foods on

354
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Speaker 3: this list you can have. Also, I was a vegetarian

355
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Speaker 3: at the time. They would not treat me, so I

356
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 3: had to eat meat. Wow to be able to see.

357
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Speaker 3: I was also on an antidepressant that they made me

358
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Speaker 3: get off of, so crazy, and I was taking a

359
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Speaker 3: lot of advil at the time because I was in

360
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Speaker 3: a lot of pain. None of that not allowed.

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Speaker 1: Also, this just seems like the perfect dress of pa

362
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Speaker 1: for an eating disorder.

363
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Speaker 3: Oh, let me tell you, it got so bad. So

364
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Speaker 3: the list itself is restrictive eating. It creates orthorexia in

365
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Speaker 3: every single person who I know who has been through this,

366
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Speaker 3: and you become afraid of everything. But the foods were

367
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Speaker 3: very basic. It was like, you can have organic meat, fish,

368
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Speaker 3: and eggs. There were like six vegetables that you could have,

369
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Speaker 3: but no carrots, no almonds, no lentils like things that

370
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 3: lent to think, No no fruit, no fruit at all

371
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Speaker 3: until maybe level four or five in the diet.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: And so I did not eat fruit or like even

374
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 3: a grain of sugar for almost three years. Who even

375
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 3: after I had left treatment, I was still so in

376
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 3: that eating disorder that I could not force myself to

377
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 3: do it until I finally saw a woman who was like,

378
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Speaker 3: I'm going to give you valium and you have to

379
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,199
Speaker 3: sit down at a table and confront of food that

380
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 3: you want to try while on valium. And so I

381
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,439
Speaker 3: did that for a while, but I would take she

382
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 3: gave me the smallest dose. I was afraid of medication

383
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 3: at this point because I truly, yeah, I'd just been

384
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 3: fully brainwashed. And it's so strange to look back on

385
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 3: it and realize that, but yeah, I would like cut

386
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 3: it into four pieces and take the tiniest little bit

387
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 3: and try to eat like kale. Wow.

388
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Speaker 2: Can y'all define orthorexia if anyone doesn't know, Yeah, it's an.

389
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 3: Eating disorder where it is really more about the quality

390
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 3: of the food than the quantity, and so everything has

391
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 3: to be a lot of people are, you know, only raw.

392
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 3: And that's not to say that everyone who follows raw

393
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 3: diet has orthorexia, but if you are in any way

394
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: inclined to that, like myself, it can become an issue

395
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 3: of oh I can't eat that because it wasn't grown organically.

396
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 3: Oh I can't eat that because it has processed sugar

397
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 3: or an echo chamber of this.

398
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,199
Speaker 2: Like you're yeah, you're not.

399
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: People aren't like, hey, I'm a little worried about you.

400
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: They're like, how do you do itactly?

401
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 3: Now, I am so allergic to all of that conversation,

402
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 3: but at the same time, I still like to go

403
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 3: into Airwan and have a.

404
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah.

405
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 3: So that was kind of how that began, and I

406
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 3: did get relief from my pain for the first three months.

407
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 3: They do acupuncture treatments there. They have you get on

408
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 3: their supplements that you buy from them, and they're probiotics

409
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 3: that I think that they have a deal with the

410
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 3: company I don't even remember. I mean, it's it could

411
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 3: be thirty to sixty dollars a bottle of whatever you're taking,

412
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 3: so not ridiculous, but you were paying them one hundred

413
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,959
Speaker 3: and fifty dollars a visit out of pocket, out of pocket,

414
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,159
Speaker 3: not covered by insurance. And I know a lot of people,

415
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 3: a lot of women came in from other countries, other

416
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 3: cities to treat with them, so they would be spending

417
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 3: so much money just to be seen. I mean, it's

418
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 3: not the most exorbitant prices when you look at it, but.

419
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 2: You need to keep coming back exactly.

420
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 3: You have to talk to them once a week, or

421
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 3: you know, at the very least once every two weeks.

422
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 3: And it's the same cost whether you talk to them

423
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: on the phone or go into their office. So for

424
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 3: three months things were going really well, and I thought

425
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 3: this was going to be an answer. I knew another

426
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 3: woman who had gotten who had truly gotten better working

427
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 3: with them, but it took her a year, and then

428
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 3: something happened. I had when it all began, I was

429
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 3: going through some traumatic stuff emotionally, and then I had

430
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 3: to take a trip by myself for a week, and

431
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 3: suddenly the week before that, everything flared up again, and

432
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 3: I just thought, oh, it's because I'm nervous about traveling,

433
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 3: because I'm just still in a really fragile state. But

434
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 3: then after that it didn't calm down again, and it

435
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 3: didn't calm down again ever, and I kept getting progressively

436
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 3: worse and kept becoming more and more restrictive because these

437
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 3: people were telling me, well, you must have done something

438
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 3: to cause this.

439
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: What did you do?

440
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,640
Speaker 3: What did you talk much like chemical wise cleaning products,

441
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 3: shampoo conditioner, Oh no, yes, And then it just continued

442
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 3: that way to the point where I was literally eating

443
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 3: three foods. There were only three things that I wasn't

444
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 3: afraid of touching and eating, and I was home bound.

445
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't leave my house because first of all, I

446
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: was like having to pee every ten minutes, and second

447
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,479
Speaker 3: of all, they had me on this regimen of things

448
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 3: that you had to be close to your house to

449
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 3: be able to do. Like I couldn't even drink. I

450
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: couldn't drink water from anything but this glass jug from

451
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,880
Speaker 3: Mountain Valley, because if you drink bottled water or something

452
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 3: from the sink, you're gonna set yourself back up.

453
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So what were the three foods that

454
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: you were eating?

455
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: Oh that's the worst, that's the worst part. It was cabbage.

456
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: I knew it was gonna be cabbage for and I

457
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: hate cabbage.

458
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 3: I don't mind it now. But the other one was lamb,

459
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: because that was the only meat that it felt like

460
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 3: didn't make things worse for me. It's so like looking,

461
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: it's so crazy. And potatoes, so I ate that breakfast, lunch,

462
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 3: and dinner like.

463
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: More lamb cabbage potatoes And these don't make you sick.

464
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: Now I cannot even smell lamb.

465
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

466
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, I don't want to eat

467
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: that anyway because more vegetarians.

468
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that was so tough.

469
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was very very harmful.

470
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: Time and getting off of your antidepressants as well like.

471
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: That that I cannot. I do understand why they're doing it,

472
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 3: sort of from I don't think that these people were

473
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 3: meaning to cause harm to people, but I think that

474
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 3: they did not have any idea what they were doing,

475
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: and they were very strict about that, and so it

476
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: meant that they were enforcing these rules that didn't make

477
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: any sense. And so many of these other women I

478
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 3: spoke to because we were on these message boards, we're

479
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 3: having similar issues to the point where finally, after many

480
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 3: years and my mom and one of my closest friends,

481
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: who is a like a one of the most legit

482
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: doctors you can imagine, she works in the Mayo Clinic.

483
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 3: Now was like, you were in a cult and you

484
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 3: have to stop, but I didn't know how to do that.

485
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: There's nothing worse than going to a doctor's appointment expecting

486
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, and then your doctor

487
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: seems like they have better things to do and better

488
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: places to be.

489
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 2: Instead of listening to you, intently, asking how you feel,

490
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: and helping you along. The doctor is checking the clock.

491
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: On ZocDoc, you'll find quality doctors who focus on you,

492
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: listen to you, and prioritize your care.

493
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: ZocDoc is the only free app that lets you find

494
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 2: and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance,

495
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: are available when you need them, and treat almost every

496
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 2: condition under the sun.

497
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: Surprise twists might work for podcasts, but maybe not for

498
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: medical care.

499
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: With zoctoc, there are no alarms and no surprises.

500
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: She's from thousands of patient reviewed doctors and specialists. Brows

501
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: doctor profiles, upload and verify your insurance information, and get

502
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: the care you need.

503
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: Go to ZocDoc dot com, slash trust me and download

504
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a

505
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: top rated doctor today. Many are available within twenty four hours.

506
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: That's z ocdoc dot com, slash trust me, zochdoc dot

507
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: com slash trust me. Why do you think that they

508
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: thought you were an a cult?

509
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 3: I was crying and in pain, and I would try

510
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: to go to any sort of Western doctor, and I

511
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: would have panic attacks in the office because I had

512
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: been told by these people and the other women in

513
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 3: treatment that that will make you worse, that'll just sort

514
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 3: of anecdotal stories of people going to the doctor having

515
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: a sistoscopy done, which is a very standard way of

516
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: diagnosing this symptom of the condition, and they said, I

517
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 3: have that done and then everything got so much worse

518
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: and I've never recovered. These kinds of things were being

519
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: told to me daily. Wow. So I was terrified of everything.

520
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: I was in so much pain, but I was unwilling

521
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 3: to try anything outside of that. You know, my mom

522
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 3: was saying, why don't you go get a massage and

523
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: try to calm down a little bit, And I was like,

524
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: I can't because that's not allowed.

525
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: That's a massage is a trigger.

526
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 3: No massage, no chiropractic, no body treatments of any kind,

527
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: no energy work, no therapy. What don't go talk to

528
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: a therapist.

529
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: So they're like they're like trying not to get you

530
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: emotionally triggered or like to have anything move in your body.

531
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: How is there reasoning on this?

532
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: I think it was based in there. In one of

533
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: their study, one of them was had a PhD and

534
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: referred to themselves as a doctor, but it was a PhD.

535
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 3: In philosophy.

536
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: It's not a classic, yeah, hilarious.

537
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: And so it was about traditional Chinese medicine idea of

538
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: energy in the body and their acupuncture in their herbs.

539
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 3: Were working on this very intimate, deep level, and if

540
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 3: you did anything to sort of set that in a

541
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 3: different direction, it wouldn't work, got it. So of course

542
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: you're just on edge, Like, am I energetically doing something wrong?

543
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: Though I hate that. I hate that line of thinking

544
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: so much, Like so many people end up blaming themselves

545
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: for really normal things that like probably are not the problem.

546
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard because there is that fine line,

547
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: like there is this like Chinese medicine acupuncture factor to

548
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: life that is just equally as valid as Western medicine

549
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: and all of those things. And you can get yourself

550
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: stuck in holes again, oh god, again, you can get

551
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: your yourself stuck in cycles.

552
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 2: Many people, I think, think of science as this thing

553
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: that's like done, we like understand the body. There's so

554
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: much we don't understand, and that leaves a vacuum and

555
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: it leaves room for I think a lot of women

556
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: in particular, probably especially women of color, to not get

557
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: the help that they need and then to go searching

558
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: for it wherever they can find it.

559
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: If you're not taken seriously in your doctor's office and

560
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: you're in pain or suffering some kind you're going to

561
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: find an answer somewhere, then maybe it's you know, chugging

562
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 3: celery juice. Okay, So what what year was this that

563
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: you It was twenty thirteen when everything started, Okay, and

564
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: it started. I was in New Orleans working and I

565
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 3: then left came back to LA. I started getting better,

566
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: I had to go back to New Orleans and that's

567
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 3: when things got really crazy. And so, of course I

568
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: was afraid of New Orleans for many years as well.

569
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 3: Had to do some healing around that. And actually, my

570
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: friend just had her bachelorette party there last month, on

571
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 3: almost the exact anniversary when it happened, and so I

572
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 3: went and had a very helpful, healing, beautiful girls trip. Yeah,

573
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: it was really special.

574
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yes fuck yeah yeah, So tell us about

575
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: can we give them fake names the man and the woman.

576
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's call them Teresa and Bill. That's very funny

577
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: because those are my parents friends names.

578
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: And Teresa Bill Yeah, sorry.

579
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: That's adorable, but we'll use them for the name. They're

580
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: actually wonderful people.

581
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: OK, so what were they like in person?

582
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: Very intimidating. I never really spoke to the woman, and

583
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 3: she was the person who was sort of in charge

584
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 3: of everything, but because she was too busy, the man

585
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: started seeing patients and I shouldn't even call them pay

586
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: like clients. I don't know. Yeah, uh, and very stern.

587
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: They were in communication a lot with me and with

588
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: all of the people they saw. It was very open,

589
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: like email us anytime you need and we'll talk to

590
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: you and we'll adjust your supplements or your herbs or

591
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: do something different. And so I would be emailing and

592
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: being like I'm screaming on the floor. Should we change something? Yeah,

593
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: add a sprinkle of X and the dash of Y

594
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: and call me later. And so that went on. That

595
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: went on for a long time. How long I was

596
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: in treatment with them for two years until I finally

597
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: said enough and had to do the work of kind

598
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: of unraveling all of the damage that had been done

599
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: to me mentally and emotionally, I know, physically.

600
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: Well, before we get to that, what was the most

601
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: intense moment of this where you started to be like, wait,

602
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: this might not be right.

603
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 3: With them? I started telling them that I was suicidal,

604
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: and the sort of options that were presented to me were, well,

605
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: just keep going through it and it'll get better eventually.

606
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: Like there wasn't any like, hey, maybe this isn't working out,

607
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: Maybe you should try something else, Maybe you should talk

608
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: to a professional. It was it was just like, well,

609
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: start coming in twice a week and we'll do more.

610
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: And at this point they have so like they're telling

611
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 2: you what you can can't eat, they're telling you what

612
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: you can and can't do therapeutically. What else are they

613
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: like controlling in your life by that point.

614
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if there's a whole lot more that

615
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: they were controlling, but it made it so that I

616
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: was unable to I was no longer socializing.

617
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like what else is there?

618
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: Right? I mean I couldn't go anywhere. I couldn't go

619
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: to restaurants. At one point, I tried to go to

620
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: a restaurant for someone's birthday, and I was bringing my

621
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: own food everywhere in tupperware.

622
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: You brought a cabbage lamb oh hell yeah.

623
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: To a like an Italian place where everyone's eating pizza.

624
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 3: I just remember looking around and like everyone's having cocktails

625
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: or glasses of wine and I'm like, have my own

626
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: water that I've brought with me because I don't trust

627
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: the restaurant's water. Oh my gosh, I sound like the

628
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: crazy person, but I really was. I was so I

629
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: was so deeply, deeply stuck in this mentality.

630
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: I just perfect, it makes perfect sense. And I just

631
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: feel like I really just know so many people who

632
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 2: were like so close to that.

633
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: I would have been a perfect candidate.

634
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: I would so easy. It's very easy to fall into that.

635
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: And I know because I don't think of myself as

636
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 3: like someone who's gullible or I mean, I listened to

637
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: your podcast and so every guest you have on says

638
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: the same thing, and they are all really intelligent people.

639
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: You just this stuff is so tricky and it's so

640
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 3: much easier to fall into than you think it is

641
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 3: until it happens. I also, I have this very key

642
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: memory of being at a wedding in Palm Springs and

643
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: it was the most wonderful, beautiful thing that you could

644
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: have imagined, like the most fun wedding possible. And I

645
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: was miserable and I was in so much pain, and

646
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: I'm like emailing them from the bathroom floor and they're

647
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: telling me at a little bit more of this certain

648
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: kind of probiotic and then let us know. And everyone's

649
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: swimming because it's home Springs and the wedding is like

650
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 3: the wedding party is happening. Everyone's dancing, having a great time,

651
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 3: and then suddenly somebody jumps in the pool with like

652
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 3: their full suit on, and then the whole party ends

653
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: up in the pool. Everyone's in their clothes, are all laughing,

654
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: and like my my ex husband and I are just

655
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: sitting on the side watching them, and he's not going

656
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: in because he's being kind to me. And I'm just

657
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: like watching people having the time of their lives and

658
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: just being like, oh, this is over for me, Like

659
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: there is no more joy, there is no more fun.

660
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 3: I've I've had my fill and now this is my life.

661
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: And it was so sad, extremely.

662
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: Dark as chlorine would have been.

663
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: I thought you lad going because you couldn't know.

664
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: It was the chemical makeup of the water. That's what

665
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: they've disturbed my delicate system.

666
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: You peete in the pool other people are in.

667
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't normally, but if I were her at that part.

668
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: I do I just have Yeah, I have.

669
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: I okay, I've done it before.

670
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: Why the chlorine is there? I'm sorry everyone.

671
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: It's not like common okay, but like, oh my god,

672
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm never going in a.

673
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: Pool again, not with us.

674
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: Together. Syl chlorine. The chlorine did.

675
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: And so you're if you're you were married at the time,

676
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: So were they telling you not to have sex?

677
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god.

678
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: Yes, And and they I mean, this is someone else's story,

679
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: but they did tell one person that I knew that

680
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: she needed to leave her husband because she had an

681
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: allergy clearly to his sperm. No.

682
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: No, So so did they successfully break up that marriage?

683
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: I don't know, because I had that was at the

684
00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: end where I was like, oh, this is fucking bonkers. Yeah.

685
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

686
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: There was all kinds of stuff. He couldn't eat certain

687
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: things either, and he couldn't use certain body washes and

688
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: shampoos because if I touched him and he kissed and

689
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: I got like sugar that he had eaten.

690
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: We just did an episode of somebody who's like keeping

691
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: all these women separated from their families and saying, if

692
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: like somebody got the vaccine, they can shut it onto you.

693
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: And so that's breaking up people that and like very

694
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: smart people are joining Yes, so yeah, it's terrifying.

695
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, these people are very anti vax too. I discovered

696
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: by you know, latter day internet searches, which was not

697
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: surprising at all.

698
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,680
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699
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,560
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700
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 4: or Minari and Nate of Honor.

701
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702
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703
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704
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Speaker 4: all your favorite devices for free.

705
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 3: Pluto TV.

706
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: Stream now.

707
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: Pain never.

708
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 2: There was a peer where I was getting chronic East infection. Yeah,

709
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: and then the chronic ut eyes, which a lot of

710
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: them turned out to not be UTI's, which is why

711
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: I fell down, you know, the blood a rabbit hole. Yeah,

712
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: And a lot of women when you talk to each other,

713
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: are like, could it be the semen of your partner

714
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: and that you're not reacting well to that, which who

715
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: knows if that's true, But like I can see how close,

716
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: like how quickly it can turn into that.

717
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: It's a very fine line from like I'm a little

718
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: worried about something too well, now I'm obsessively thinking about it,

719
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 3: and I have to take action, right.

720
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, right in my you know again, like this is

721
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: all still like not completely studied and we don't know

722
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: that much about it. But I saw a couple of

723
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 2: women specialists, and one of the theories was that like, okay,

724
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: so you had a UTI that was especially persistent because

725
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 2: you were given the wrong antibiotic at first that irritated

726
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: the liner the lining of your bladder. So now anything

727
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: that like is you know a city in areas are

728
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: spicy and irritant, yeah, is going to make you uncomfortable

729
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: and make you feel like you still have And then

730
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: also for me, that was sex. So it makes sense

731
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 2: that like, yeah, it's logical to you know, yeah.

732
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: Woman, it's so fun, it's great, it's just so great.

733
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: Is such a like picky ticky, picky thing.

734
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's really and if you want to have

735
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: a relationship, like.

736
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's really hard. And then yes, I we divorced,

737
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 3: and then trying to think, oh, is there anyone else

738
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: in the world who is going to even put up

739
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: with this station you're yeah, yeah, it's it's awful, awful,

740
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: And yes, so many people I know, so many women

741
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: and who deal with this, and my own mom included

742
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: after it was happening to me, started happening to her

743
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: for different reasons, and she's doing all right now too.

744
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 3: After me like forcing her to try different things. It

745
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 3: became this sort of full circle story. But yeah, it's

746
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: just that is part of the reason I wanted to

747
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: come and talk about this, because it's really uncomfortable for

748
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 3: me to talk about it. But I think it's necessary

749
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 3: because in the same way that people feel really let

750
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: down by Western medicine and the options that are available

751
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 3: for them, I think it's you have to be really

752
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 3: careful about who you go to in the alternative world

753
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: or the Eastern medicine or natural paths, because there are

754
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: really really wonderful, helpful people who I have found, and

755
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 3: then there are also people who will take advantage of

756
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: the fact that you feel lost and abandoned. So I

757
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: just happened to find those people first.

758
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think this is falls under the umbrella

759
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: of when we find like, never just go to one person,

760
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: because that can like you need an acupuncturist and somebody

761
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: else who also does this and.

762
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: It's not a legitimate doctor and like, you know, just

763
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: a group of a team.

764
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 3: The best doctor that I have had in this entire

765
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: thing is someone who is a eurogynecologist. She specializes in it,

766
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 3: and she does all of the treatments. She never pushes

767
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: anything on you. And she also I'll shout her out

768
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: because she's so cool. Doctor Rebecca Nelkin, big fan. She said, yes,

769
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 3: it is a It is something you have to come

770
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: at from a physical standpoint, like doing these Western treatments,

771
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: and a mental and emotional standpoint. Whatether that means for you,

772
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: taking like an antidepressdant like I do, which does actually

773
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 3: help the condition, or getting acupuncture, talking, doing talk therapy,

774
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: any sort of therapy, whatever it is that makes you

775
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: feel again. It could be the placebo effect, or it

776
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: could be something really happening. It's just she was so

777
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: accepting of the.

778
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 5: Full picture, and I think it's amazing exactly what we need.

779
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 2: That is how it should be. Yeah, yeah, because one

780
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: thing that's like, you know, one thing I noticed in

781
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 2: myself was that like the more stressed I'd become, the

782
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: more tense my body would become. And that would be

783
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: a trigger because I would notice I'm like holding all

784
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: of my tension in my lower abdomen and like not breathing. Yeah,

785
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: like not to say that that's the answer, but like it.

786
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: Really can come part of the answer.

787
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: Spral and Snowball.

788
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's like panic attacks too. You're like, don't

789
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: have one, don't have right have one? It causes one.

790
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: Or to go back to women trying to get pregnant,

791
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: it's like a lot of times somebody will adopt a

792
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: baby and then they'll all of a sudden get pregnant

793
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: because the pressure has been taken off there a little

794
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: bit more relaxed, and like, you know, it's but not

795
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: to say that there wasn't something also wrong with them

796
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, it's all.

797
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: It's all just very confusing. And yeah, I can't wait

798
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: for signs to advance, and.

799
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: There needs to be more research going into these things

800
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: that affect when in those bodies.

801
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, that is really important.

802
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: Tell us about the message board, Yeah, it was again.

803
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 3: I went back and looked at it recently because I

804
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 3: was like, am I was I so distraught and in

805
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: such a bad place that the things I was reading

806
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: seemed bigger and more terrifying then And I looked at

807
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: it again now with a clearer headspace, and no, it's people,

808
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: it's just people who are also desperate and also scared

809
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: going searching for answers, and when they can't find them,

810
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 3: we all end up in the same place and we're

811
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: trying to support each other, but you can't because you

812
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: don't have the tools at that time. So I was

813
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 3: rereading these desperate messages that I was putting out into

814
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 3: the world and these people responding to me like I'm

815
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: so sorry. Have you tried X, Y, and Z, You'll

816
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: get there, and it's like, that's that's nice. But then

817
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 3: they turn around the next day and post something like

818
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: I accidentally touched some soap and now I'm flaring and Lama.

819
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: Oh, flaring. That is such a like scary term.

820
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: That is the word that is always like, I'm in

821
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: a flare, I'm flaring up. And I have actually experienced,

822
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: over the last few years moments of that, some heightened sensation,

823
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 3: which I like to call it now and it's awful.

824
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: And the first couple of times it happened, it was

825
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: full PTSD trigger mode, just instant panic attacks, instant freaking

826
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: out and catastrophizing. Now when it happens, I know, like, oh,

827
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 3: this is happening because I'm stressed about something. They're very

828
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: particular triggers that bring it up in me now, and

829
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: I know what I can do to kind of calm

830
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: it down, and I did end up going down. It

831
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 3: is a scientific based mind body thing that I did

832
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: with a therapist in LA who kind of trains people

833
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 3: all over the place. He was doing a study at

834
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 3: UC Boulder about back pain at the same time that

835
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: we were working together, and the results that they had

836
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 3: are it is really incredible and it is the thing

837
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 3: that helped me. Again, not the thing that could just

838
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: solve it for everyone, but it was a huge piece

839
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 3: of the puzzle for me. What was thought, Yeah, it's

840
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 3: this guy runs a place called the Pain Psychology Institute.

841
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 3: It's like right down the street, and it is. It's

842
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: using talk therapy and somatic tracking to identify sensations in

843
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: your bodies and kind of turn the volume knob down.

844
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: It's basically the sort of brain science that they're doing

845
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: now where neuropathways are built. And if it's a neuropathway

846
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: that is telling you that you are in pain at

847
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 3: a level ten, how can we sort of reprogram your

848
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: actual brain chemistry and the wires to turn the volume

849
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 3: knob down on the pain and say, Okay, this is

850
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: a normal sensation and my body is interpreting it as

851
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 3: a danger signal, which is a lot easier said than that.

852
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: I was going to say, that's really hard work.

853
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 3: It's hard, and it took It's taken years, and it's

854
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 3: something that I continue to do all the time. And

855
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 3: I've had to make, you know, lifestyle changes to accommodate

856
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,479
Speaker 3: the fact that I am. I'm just like older and

857
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 3: more sensitive now than I was before all of this started.

858
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: But that just means like I have stronger boundaries around things,

859
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: and I know, like when I travel, I need to

860
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: have a bathtub so that I can have my safety net,

861
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: which is just knowing like if I'm feeling bad, I

862
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: get in the bathtub, it helps me feel better. And

863
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 3: knowing like if I get on an airplane, anytime I

864
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: feel trapped anywhere, it's a surefire trigger for me.

865
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: To I mean, it seems like so much of what

866
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 2: we talk about is like I well, outside of the

867
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 2: cult stuff in terms of like health stuff, just like

868
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: learning what your triggers are, identifying them and learning how

869
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: to respond differently to them. Yeah, and like protect and

870
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: that's the problem.

871
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: Cults. They give a basic overarching solution to everyone.

872
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: This is it for all of you. Yes, this is

873
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 3: the answer.

874
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: So can I ask you about when you guys started

875
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: a separate group chat Yes, and started talking amongst yourselves

876
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: about what was happening.

877
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us were feeling like we

878
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: had been doing this for years and nothing was shifting,

879
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 3: and we got a little uncomfortable with some of the

880
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: other people on the message boards who just seemed to

881
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: be living in desperation and not not wanting to make

882
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: any sort of move, and we all were ready to

883
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 3: make a move. So we started a Facebook group and

884
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 3: started talking about, well, has anyone tried whatever, Like someone

885
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: discovered that they had chronic lyme disease, which is a

886
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: whole other thing that doctors don't believe is real. You

887
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 3: have to find someone who is not a total quack

888
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,479
Speaker 3: to help you with it. And other people were like, well,

889
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: I actually have been eating all these other things and

890
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 3: I'm fine. A few people have actually started their own

891
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 3: like essentially like neuro reprogramming services for other people because

892
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 3: they were able to do like meditation and all kinds

893
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: of stuff that I have like dabbled in, but that

894
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 3: got them better. Other people, I think just kind of

895
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 3: went full Western Route and we're like, this is actually

896
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 3: not that bad and it's HELPEDINGE me, I did that.

897
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 3: I actually still have a weird to get this taken out.

898
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 3: But I have this like neuromodulator that was wow. Yeah

899
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: that was placed next to my spinal cord. Wow. Didn't

900
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 3: do anything, but I feel like a robot and that's fun.

901
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: Why is that crazy? Were you going to do the

902
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: same thing?

903
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: No? No, I just remember reading about it because I

904
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 2: was just desperate for anything, and I tried to get

905
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: botox in my bladder and my eurogynocologist said that that

906
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 2: was that had to be after I tried all these medications. Yeah,

907
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: but the medications interfered with the antidepressant I was on

908
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 2: at the times. I couldn't take those anyway.

909
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just yeah, yeah, it's such a pain in

910
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: the ass, I mean pain in the vagina vagina ladder. Yeah,

911
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 3: I all love it. I love this.

912
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love those puns that we two things one

913
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: the first level of the diet. If that was working,

914
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 2: then just let them just do that diet, right, Why

915
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: do you have to then go deeper and do more

916
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: stuff if it's working.

917
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, it was like, oh, it'll be

918
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: faster and better and that's a great sign, and now

919
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: just got to get you on the real path.

920
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: And then the second thing is like all of you

921
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: are not getting better, and then you're relying more on

922
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: these people, and then you're all more stressed because you're

923
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: your lives are being limited, and then you're spending more

924
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: and more money to get the answers from them, and

925
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: it seems like it just becomes us like total money

926
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: suck cycle.

927
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: It is.

928
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: It's a vicious cycle. And we all started spending more

929
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: time online with each other talking about it, and I

930
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 3: think that is something that happens to so many people

931
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 3: when you're not well, you're looking for answers and that

932
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 3: ends up being like such a stress inducer and it

933
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 3: creates more of a cycle. This is what I made,

934
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 3: Actually made a short film about all of this in

935
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 3: sort of an allegorical way, and I was reaching out

936
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 3: to ICEE groups to see if they wanted to, you know,

937
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: help raise some awareness for the cause and their research

938
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: by you know, giving them credit at the end of

939
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 3: the short or something. And I sent out the script

940
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: all of them and I never heard back because I

941
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: think it's like very dark.

942
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: I see it.

943
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did.

944
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 3: I made it, and it's called growth. It was really wonderful,

945
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: and it was sort of the combination of someone searching

946
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 3: for answers through all these different medical specialists.

947
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: Or therapists amazing.

948
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 3: And taking her anger out on strangers on the Internet

949
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 3: and controlling them.

950
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: Basically, did you become a troll?

951
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 3: Yes? I wasn't trolling anyone online. I never did that,

952
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 3: but I wanted to. I wanted to all these people

953
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: who were just like, you'll never get better. I wanted

954
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 3: to like find them and be ate okay, say terrible,

955
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 3: terrible things. Okay, but I felt like I needed I

956
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 3: needed a place for my rage to go, and I

957
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 3: didn't know where it was because it was start Like

958
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: I wasn't rageful before, but this pain. I mean I

959
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 3: was truly in my car screaming all the time because

960
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: I just was like, I don't I can't contain this much.

961
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 3: It's too big and it's too much.

962
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is that would be really easy to become

963
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: suicidal about, especially I mean, I'm on prozac and you

964
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: take that love for me while I'm going through that's.

965
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: Oh, bab, I already had, you know, my own mental

966
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: health issues were depression anxiety, and they they it really

967
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: I wasn't sleeping either, which is.

968
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: My favorite thing.

969
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so great. It makes everything better.

970
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: The level of ther responsibility to tell people to not

971
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: see Western doctors, to get off of the antidepressants that

972
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: they probably need and that's why they're on them, and

973
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: then also to limit their lives in all of these ways,

974
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: like I am surprised no one has killed themselves under

975
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: their care.

976
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: To be honest, I know that people. I know that

977
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: people with ICEE have a very high rate of suicide,

978
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: and I don't know about people who have seen them

979
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: because I completely cut all of that out once I

980
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 3: finally left. I just felt like I needed to have

981
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: a clean slate and not have any communication with these

982
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 3: people that I had been talking to. And some of

983
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 3: them are really lovely and I really like them, but

984
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: we were just.

985
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: To each other. So, yeah, did you have a moment

986
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: where the shelf broke where you saw through it or

987
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: was it a process that happened gradually.

988
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 3: It was a process. I think. I started with like

989
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to get a massage, What a revolutionary idea,

990
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 3: And then I did that and it was like, well,

991
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to be in pain no matter what I do,

992
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: and that I think it was just a matter of

993
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 3: living through so many years of that and being like,

994
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 3: this is clearly not working and it's not going to work.

995
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: I've given it enough time. I got on elmeron and

996
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: tried that for a year, and then I did all

997
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 3: these other crazy things where I was like, I wrote

998
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: down one of them because this guy. I'll never forget

999
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: this man. He's an actual MD. Someone in the group

1000
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 3: had recommended I go see him. He's like, I think

1001
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: went to USC has a degree win in philosophy. No,

1002
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 3: it's a real doctor. It's a real doctor, which makes

1003
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: it carrier. He was like, Okay, I know what you

1004
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: need to do the next full moon.

1005
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh my god.

1006
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: I need you to go out into your garden when

1007
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: you have your period and bleed into your garden.

1008
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: No, he did not. This is advice I would give you.

1009
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 3: He also told me that I needed to call this

1010
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 3: woman in San Francisco who would do a sole retrieval

1011
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 3: for me, and it would be seven hundred dollars, but

1012
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 3: it would definitely.

1013
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: I hope you left this person a YELP review.

1014
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: I think I did. I think I did because it

1015
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 3: was so outrageous. Oh my god. There were a few

1016
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 3: different I.

1017
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: Mean that sounds fun. The first one.

1018
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: Leading bleeding just doesn't have any expectations of what's going

1019
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: that I have a garden, yeah, really nice, Like let

1020
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: me find my window box, just like cover outside of

1021
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 3: a wind, like just.

1022
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: Illiminated the whole neighbors.

1023
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: Holy you said that your mom and your sister were

1024
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: trying to get you out for a year.

1025
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 3: My mom and yeah, my friend, my friend. Yes, they

1026
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 3: they were gently guiding me out, and they were not

1027
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 3: being forceful because I think they realized that wasn't going

1028
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 3: to work.

1029
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: Smart.

1030
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even my mom was so supportive. At different times,

1031
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: my mom and my dad both flew out to kind

1032
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: of like keep an eye on me basically, and also

1033
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: you know, cook and sweep the floor sometimes, which is

1034
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: just so sweet. I Mean, at one point my dad

1035
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: was literally sitting at the foot of my bed just

1036
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 3: making sure that I wasn't gonna hurt myself. It was horrible,

1037
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 3: and so they saw me through all of that, and

1038
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 3: I think they just felt really helpless, and so my

1039
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: mom just kept gently encouraging me to try something else,

1040
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 3: and eventually she and I went to Colorado and saw

1041
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 3: the specialist who is really great, and I finally did

1042
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: this sistoscopy where they stick a camera inside your bladder,

1043
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 3: so great, and they looked around and they were like, yeah,

1044
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: there's some inflammation here, which could be just because I'm

1045
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: so stressed out, and like, of course there's inflammation. It

1046
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 3: feels like I'm on fire. And after that, I was

1047
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, I've done the scariest part of this,

1048
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: the thing I was the most afraid of because I

1049
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 3: was told that if I did it, I would be

1050
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 3: worse forever. And once that happened, I realized, oh, I

1051
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: can actually handle a lot more than I thought I could, and.

1052
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe all of their advice wasn't right exactly.

1053
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: And that was when that was kind of the beginning.

1054
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 3: And I also had not been able to work for

1055
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 3: a long time because you can't go on.

1056
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: Set and be like this, you can't audition.

1057
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: No, no, god no. And I had done one guest

1058
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 3: star and I just remember sitting there with David Alan

1059
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 3: Greer sitting next to me and like explaining this all

1060
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 3: to him and him being like, okay, help me. Yeah.

1061
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 3: I did not get.

1062
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 5: Asked, BacT, what show is that it was a show.

1063
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 5: It was called Bad Teacher. Oh yeah, Oh it was

1064
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 5: cute and it was really fun. I would have liked

1065
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 5: to have done more, but I couldn't. I mean, I

1066
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 5: was like running laps in the garage outside because I

1067
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 5: found that, like getting my just exercising helped the pain,

1068
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 5: which also was verboten, like no exercise allowed. When you're

1069
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 5: exercise you could walk, but not too far because it

1070
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 5: like cousts problems, just like.

1071
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: The one on one most basic thing we know that

1072
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: exercise is good for like pretty much everything.

1073
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, are these people still treating I don't know, and

1074
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 3: I don't think so, thank God. Yeah, I hope not.

1075
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: But you know, there's still all these people on I

1076
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: mean I looked today because I thought, oh, I wonder

1077
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 3: if there's been any sort of advancement in research, because

1078
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 3: I I've been completely avoiding looking at any of this

1079
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 3: stuff and on Facebook it's just still very sad and awful.

1080
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 3: And No, there isn't new research except for the fact

1081
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 3: that that drug causes vision loss. Now gees, I.

1082
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: Mean there whatever, just to there will be things. I

1083
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: feel like there are. There are studies that are being done,

1084
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: including for recurring infections that are like bladder vaccines and

1085
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: you can get injected into your bladder if you have

1086
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: are having recurring UTIs wow, which and that can be

1087
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: a major contributor to having conditions like this. Yes, I like,

1088
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 2: I have hope that more will come, but we really

1089
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 2: do need more people talking about these issues exactly, reminding

1090
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: people that women's bodies need to be studied.

1091
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's it's high time.

1092
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1093
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 3: I mean, just looking at like the maternal mortality rate

1094
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 3: when people are giving birth in hospitals, the fact that

1095
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 3: we have the highest mortality rate is insane. We are

1096
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 3: sonically advanced, and I didn't realized that. Oh it's nuts.

1097
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 3: Our rates are so much higher than so many other countries, and.

1098
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: The rates for black women are.

1099
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: Like exponentially higher. Yes, so yes, the research needs to

1100
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 3: be done. Attention needs to be paid, and I don't

1101
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 3: know how we get that to happen other than talking.

1102
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 2: Other than on podcast out to the clouds. So, how

1103
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: has your journey been after this experience? I mean did

1104
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 2: it take sounds like it took a really long time

1105
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 2: to like start to be able to like touch chemicals

1106
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: and eat normal foods, Like what's that?

1107
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 3: Like long? Slow, gradual. The first thing that I that

1108
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 3: really helped me was I realized that I had just

1109
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 3: kind of given up on everything that brought me joy

1110
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: and was just sitting at home doing nothing. And I

1111
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: needed to distract myself because I had no I had

1112
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 3: no avoidant behaviors like I couldn't I wasn't drinking, I

1113
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 3: wasn't doing any sort of drugs. I wasn't taking advil.

1114
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 3: I couldn't do anything that kind of took my brain

1115
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 3: away from pain.

1116
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm glitching. You had no Oh you

1117
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: had no avoiding escape routes, positive avoidance.

1118
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 3: Positive avoidance.

1119
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: Oh, I got it, got it.

1120
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 3: And so I started doing the I Dreams a basketball team,

1121
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 3: which ended up being maybe one of the best things

1122
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 3: that I've ever heard in my life. Yes, and I

1123
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 3: recognized that when I was playing basketball and after our games,

1124
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 3: I would not have as much pain. I started doing

1125
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 3: pottery because my mom does it, and I would have

1126
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 3: like a two hour long podcast and just be sitting

1127
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: there and doing it in a flow and realize, oh,

1128
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 3: my pain is lower now. Cool. I went to a

1129
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 3: meditation group with Inside La and Inside Dreamy, and that

1130
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 3: was another turning point where I recognize, Oh, I need

1131
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 3: to put more of my attention on things that I love,

1132
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 3: even if I'm in an enormous amount of pain that day,

1133
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 3: because I can't do it with the expectation that it's

1134
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 3: going to help the pain. But I I need to

1135
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 3: have something that is bringing me joy. And slowly that

1136
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: kind of started shifting things the meditation aspect too. I

1137
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: started doing a breathwork class like holotropic basically psychedelic breathwork,

1138
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 3: breath work, and it's that has been profound in helping

1139
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: I do wim Hoff all the time.

1140
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: Me too. Yay, every morning, I got a nice bath.

1141
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: That's great.

1142
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just I was in Minnesota for the

1143
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 3: last month. Our producers like, it's great. You feel so good.

1144
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: Trying his voice makes me feel like God himself, not

1145
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: the God, said Yeah, wim Hoff, that's your cult.

1146
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: Eaterer, Megan.

1147
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: He's a little bit of one, just like a big

1148
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: bear that holds your soul.

1149
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah again, you know, I'm kind of part of that.

1150
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 2: As long as you're not committing your life.

1151
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 5: Yeah to whim I haven't given him any money.

1152
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: We're good, We're good.

1153
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: You got other sources.

1154
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: It's fine.

1155
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool.

1156
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: So like, what would you say your pain is now

1157
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: on the scale of one to ten.

1158
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: Right now today and for the last six months zero

1159
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: wo Yeah. Over the holidays, I had a quote unquote

1160
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 3: flare up. I traveled all over the place. I went

1161
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 3: to Europe, I went to Texas and Kentucky and just

1162
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 3: too many places, and I wore myself out. And the

1163
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 3: stress of travel is a very clear trigger for me.

1164
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 3: I'm about to go on another trip this weekend and

1165
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, well, we'll see what happens.

1166
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 2: But even with all that said.

1167
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 3: The normal things in the last six months that would

1168
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 3: have triggered pain have not. And I've been talking to

1169
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 3: I work with another therapist now just to like check in,

1170
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 3: and she specializes in chronic pain and managing that. And

1171
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 3: like this job that I was on for five years

1172
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: shooting in Vancouver ended and now I'm back in LA

1173
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 3: and we're talking about moving to New York. And so

1174
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 3: it's these huge transitions that normally I would be in

1175
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: a flarer in pain for like the month before anything happens.

1176
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 3: Just the anticipatory, anticipatory anxiety is so intense. But the

1177
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 3: fact that it has been okay for these last six

1178
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 3: months gives me like so much comfort and wonderful excitement.

1179
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: Yes, well you said something Lola always says, which is

1180
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: a specialist who a like therapist, who specializes in the

1181
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: exact thing that you're experiencing.

1182
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I saw so many therapists who did not,

1183
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 3: and they're great, but they just don't have the tools.

1184
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I really really, you know, there was a

1185
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: New York Times article the other day about how like

1186
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: a lot of therapy isn't working, and I my personal

1187
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: belief about that, or my hypothesis, I should say, it's

1188
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 2: not a belief, it's a hypothesis, is that so many

1189
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 2: people have really specific things that they're experiencing and they

1190
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: are seeing people who are just general therapists or talk

1191
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: therapists or you know, don't know anything about that specific thing.

1192
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's true of doctors too, to be honest.

1193
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's even the first doctor I saw. The urologist

1194
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 3: specializes in, you know, kind of older men with kidney stones.

1195
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. All of the neurologists on my insurance

1196
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: were mainly treat men. Yes, I had to pay out

1197
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: of pocket a fuck ton of money to go see

1198
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 2: a eurogaynecologist who literally studies I see, and what's the

1199
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: one I said? I had overact and overactive but thank you. Yeah,

1200
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 2: and she's the only person who ever had an answer

1201
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: for me, Like why not answer, but just like ideas

1202
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: and understand anything.

1203
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is such a specific area of medicine that again,

1204
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 3: there's just not enough people doing it right.

1205
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: Well, what would you say to someone who is experiencing

1206
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 2: some kind of chronic discomfort and looking for help.

1207
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 3: You will find it, it will get better. You don't

1208
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 3: have to be stuck in this for even another year.

1209
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 3: And that can sound like a lot of time, but

1210
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 3: I think it is a very short amount of time

1211
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 3: for someone who's living with chronic discomfort because the fact

1212
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 3: that it's chronic means it's already you've been experiencing it

1213
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 3: for a while. So it's not going to take an

1214
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 3: overnight solution. But there are answers out there. I am

1215
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 3: happy to speak to people who have been going through

1216
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 3: what I went through and tell them what helped for me.

1217
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 3: It's just a matter of finding the path that actually

1218
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 3: works for you, and you don't have to go by

1219
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 3: anyone wrote like, it's it's just not wrote road. I

1220
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 3: was like anyone wrote thinking about like tradition wrote. I

1221
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: was like, she must't be, like, okay, I meant nothing,

1222
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 3: and things like you know they do like vaginal volumes repositories,

1223
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 3: which are weirdly helpful for people who have a lot

1224
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 3: of touch, and yeah, it's awesome. I try that and

1225
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 3: it did help a little bit. And things like hormonal treatments.

1226
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 3: There's some people, especially like postmenopausal women, get icy or

1227
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 3: chronic uties because of the imbalance of estrogen progesterone. So

1228
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 3: it's just a matter of finding the right people and

1229
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 3: the right techniques that help you.

1230
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, my last question is just what about the

1231
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: message boards, Like how much do you think people should

1232
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: interact with them? When do you think they should stop?

1233
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 3: I think stay off the internet entirely. Honestly. I had

1234
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 3: to make a deal with myself where I was like, Okay,

1235
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 3: I can look at this in the morning, but if

1236
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 3: we get past it's like caffeine. Like if i get

1237
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 3: to three o'clock in the afternoon and I'm still looking

1238
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 3: at this message board, it's going to keep me up

1239
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: all night and I'm going to be spiraling because you

1240
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 3: can get some good information and then once you have

1241
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 3: that information, don't keep digging, because it really is psychological torture.

1242
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 3: It's self psychological torture because you don't see the people

1243
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 3: you're talking to. You don't know what they're going through,

1244
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 3: you don't know what their life is like. And again,

1245
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 3: they might have an answer that worked for them, and

1246
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: you could think, oh, well this, you know tincture is

1247
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 3: going to cure me as well. And when it doesn't,

1248
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 3: you become increasingly desperate and it just makes things worse.

1249
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 3: So for myself, I've had to cut off everything and

1250
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 3: I noticed that my research brain just wants to dig

1251
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 3: in same yeah, about anything and everything. Yeah, and it's

1252
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: I think, you know, set a time limit on yourself,

1253
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 3: like give yourself thirty minutes a day in the morning

1254
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 3: to do that and then leave it.

1255
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was finding and this is now something that

1256
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 2: I attribute to, you know, my obsessive brain that we

1257
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: all know I have now. But I was finding that

1258
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: I would be walking around anxious, feeling uncomfortable, anxious, feeling ncomfortable,

1259
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: so heightened, and the only thing that was making me

1260
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,479
Speaker 2: feel better was going online and looking and it would

1261
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 2: like soothe me. But that became an obsessive cycle where

1262
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 2: I felt like I had to be looking for answers

1263
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 2: and or I couldn't relax yep, and it didn't help.

1264
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 2: I doesn't.

1265
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 3: It's a temporary fix. Yeah, And that is a lot

1266
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 3: of the therapy that I went through, which was just

1267
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 3: like just focus on something else, like and it's so

1268
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 3: easy to say that, and it's so hard to do.

1269
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: Or like just sit with your body and like feel

1270
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 3: your heart beating in your chest and like what are

1271
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 3: the sensations in your hands. It's like basic anxiety somatic stuff.

1272
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: But it's it makes a huge, huge difference.

1273
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: So I just want to say though also of course

1274
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: there we all should be advocating for ourselves and our health.

1275
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 2: So like sometimes we do get dumb doctors who tell

1276
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: us the wrong thing, and we do need to like

1277
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 2: ask questions and have information. So obviously like do all

1278
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: the research articles.

1279
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: Maybe like you can be in a support group for

1280
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: like a month.

1281
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, find an in person support girls.

1282
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: Okay, I hear you now, yeah, and person.

1283
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 3: I mean even that can be troublesome because there's a

1284
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 3: certain amount of support and then there's a certain amount

1285
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 3: of like I don't even want to say, there's like

1286
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 3: a certain I see this more online. You see it

1287
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 3: more online where there are people who start identifying themselves

1288
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 3: by the diagnosis that they have. They yes, and so

1289
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,439
Speaker 3: that I think is important to notice and stay away from,

1290
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 3: because you can get sucked into that too, and then

1291
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 3: suddenly you're like, my whole life is me being sick,

1292
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 3: and that's how I get tension and love, and it's

1293
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 3: that's a that's a slippery slope.

1294
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's real.

1295
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 3: Yeah that exists. Yeah.

1296
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, that's the spoony community.

1297
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 3: So there's the spoon spoon theory. Have you heard of

1298
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 3: spoon theory? It's essentially, people with chronic pain or chronic

1299
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 3: conditions have so many spoons in the day, and if

1300
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: those spoons all get filled up, they have no spoons

1301
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 3: left and so they can't function anymore. I believe that

1302
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 3: I'm saying that correctly. I could be wrong, but it is.

1303
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people online who like their social

1304
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 3: media profile is diagnosis first, like I have X Y

1305
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 3: and Z, and then the entire social media presence is

1306
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 3: I feel terrible today, I can't do X Y and Z.

1307
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 3: I met the doctor again, and it's all it's just

1308
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 3: all pictures of them in doctor's offices, and I understand

1309
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 3: why that's happening, because these are the same people that

1310
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,680
Speaker 3: were in the position that I was. And I think

1311
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 3: it's a really strong way of keeping yourself unwell. And

1312
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 3: that's like, I think that's a very controversial thing to

1313
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 3: put out there that I'm fairly comfortable saying because I

1314
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 3: see it over and over and over again.

1315
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, it's dangerous, it depends it's kinds of

1316
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 2: the condition. It depends on what it is. But I remember,

1317
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 2: at the height of my anxiety, I started looking for

1318
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: other people who had experienced derealization because it was so

1319
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: foreign to me. And I would find these Twitter accounts

1320
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 2: that would be like dpdr sufferer, how this many years

1321
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 2: and then all their tweets, and I'd be like, this

1322
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 2: is one extremely triggering, and two the way to actually

1323
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 2: like get through that is to like not care about

1324
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 2: it anymore and to learn to again shift your attention

1325
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 2: on something else. Then you wouldn't have found them, No,

1326
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 2: but they're not.

1327
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 3: What they're not helping. They weren't helping.

1328
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 2: What was helping me was like I see articles from

1329
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 2: actual like psychologists and therapy.

1330
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,560
Speaker 1: I'll just say, like bringing it back to cults, I

1331
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: joined an X two by two group. That's what I

1332
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: grew up in, and it's a Facebook group that's just

1333
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: popping off every day with the craziest news you could

1334
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 1: ever see in your entire life. It's meant for XES only,

1335
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 1: so nobody tried to join it to get in on

1336
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: the other gospel, but it's highly addictive and we all

1337
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: have to talk to each other about like I'm going

1338
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: to take this week off, or like I can't look

1339
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,640
Speaker 1: at it because I'm starting. Before we started this podcast,

1340
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: I subconsciously knew, like there's a call it was really weird,

1341
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: but I didn't really identify as that. But now I'm

1342
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: just like looking at my life through a lens of

1343
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,719
Speaker 1: like I was raised in a cult that was interested

1344
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: I was a cult, and like trying to find the

1345
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: balance between not that being my identity and also really

1346
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: respecting that it's real and it did affect how I

1347
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: see the world, So that sounds.

1348
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 3: Healthy to me, Like that the balance of it is,

1349
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: and you know, talking to you for this long, clearly

1350
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 3: this is a podcast about cults and high control groups,

1351
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 3: but like that doesn't come up in your daily life,

1352
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 3: all the time. Right, Yeah, it's really it's hard to

1353
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 3: find that balance. Because I was there too, I was like,

1354
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 3: how much do I Most people I talked to don't

1355
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 3: know what I've gone through, and even like close friends

1356
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 3: who kind of dropped off during all of it, I

1357
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 3: think dropped off because they just assumed that I was

1358
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 3: not wanting to be friends anymore. But it was because

1359
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 3: I was suffering so much that I couldn't find any

1360
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 3: sort of space and couldn't like go get a glass

1361
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: of wine, which is what we always did. So there. Yeah,

1362
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 3: it's a really fine line of like owning what in

1363
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 3: your life has brought you to be who you are

1364
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 3: and how you are now and not letting that define

1365
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 3: you entirely, which you're not doing.

1366
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 2: It takes like yeah, I mean we're gonna do it.

1367
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: We're all so moderate. I was just gonna say, like

1368
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 2: that can take time, Like if you first are dealing

1369
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 2: with something and struggling with something like yeah, it's hard

1370
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 2: not to like have this like world breaking year or

1371
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 2: two where you're like.

1372
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this happened. Oh I absolutely did it.

1373
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,600
Speaker 3: It's all encompassing, and yes, it does take over you.

1374
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 1: That's a journey yes, I so wish we could have

1375
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: been friends at that time. I would have visited you

1376
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 1: all the time. I would have been like bleach from

1377
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: scrubbing the kitchen, which everyone's like, stop using that, like

1378
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: ambient Donalds, and you would have been like, no, but yeah,

1379
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: that's very long time.

1380
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you, uh, if you had any words for

1381
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 2: for what did we call them? What did we call them?

1382
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 2: Teresa and Bill?

1383
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 3: Teresa and Bill Bill?

1384
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:08,879
Speaker 2: Would you say anything?

1385
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 3: No? I think I don't blame them entirely for the

1386
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 3: experience that I had. It's very much a part of

1387
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 3: like my makeup that led me to them and kept

1388
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 3: me there. If I had been a different person, I

1389
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: could have probably just walked away or have been like

1390
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 3: red flags. But I hope you're not practicing anymore, and

1391
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 3: I hope you're having a very lovely time not treating people.

1392
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: And the kind of person that you that you mean

1393
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: is just somebody who likes to follow the rules or

1394
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: likes to do things all the way through, or kind

1395
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: of an intense personality, is the way you're.

1396
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 3: Saying, Yeah, I yes, I have a lot of intensity

1397
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 3: and perfectionism. And boy did that feed a lot of

1398
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:01,600
Speaker 3: my little A lot of my needs as an intense perfectionist.

1399
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 3: Gave me a place to focus all of it, right,

1400
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 3: totally see that.

1401
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for keeping here today.

1402
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

1403
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 2: Do you would you like to shout out your social media?

1404
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes, now that everyone's heard about my bladder,

1405
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 3: come like in my face, I'm Alison E. Miller on

1406
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,719
Speaker 3: anything on Instagram and Twitter? Is Twitter even a real

1407
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 3: place anymore?

1408
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 6: Was it?

1409
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: Ever? I don't know.

1410
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, thank you, thank you, And that concludes our

1411
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 2: Alison Miller interview. Love her, I love her too. I'm

1412
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 2: really glad that she came on because I feel like

1413
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 2: this is probably something that a lot of people are

1414
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: dealing with.

1415
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1416
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:55,879
Speaker 2: So do you think if you were in her position

1417
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 2: that you would join the couple run icy clinic?

1418
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: Absolutely? I would give it my best shot. I would

1419
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: describe myself as more you know, there's like, I'm not

1420
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: diagnosing her with anorexia at all, but there's more like

1421
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: anorexic and bliemic personalities. I'm more of a boulimic personality.

1422
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: I was bulliemic, So me trying to get off all

1423
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: of those foods and not take medication like I would

1424
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: snort an advil bottle if I felt discomfort, you know

1425
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm just much more of a like

1426
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: just do whatever. I just more extremes, So I'd give

1427
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: it my best shot. If I was in a really

1428
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: good place. Not good, but if you had me at

1429
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: the exact right time, maybe I could get on the

1430
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 1: regiment and keep it going. But I'm not quite the

1431
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 1: personality type to live off three foods without benching and peraching.

1432
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 2: I did cut out sugar from my life for a

1433
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 2: couple of months for one of the things I was

1434
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 2: dealing with. Yeah, it sucked, but when you're desperate, you're desperate, Yeah,

1435
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 2: do whatever.

1436
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:00,080
Speaker 1: You were so good about it.

1437
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 2: I was, yeah, you remember this, of course, wow.

1438
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: Because I felt bad because I'd always be eating shit

1439
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: and you'd be like, oh, I want somebody, I can't

1440
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: have any sugar. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I'm like, oh.

1441
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 2: I mean, and in retrospect, I don't think that was

1442
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: the thing that was actually helping me out.

1443
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 3: Oh.

1444
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: It was just like I have to try this because

1445
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 2: I because nothing. You know, what else am I going

1446
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 2: to do? But it is crazy how much of our

1447
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 2: sex lives are run by these things. That we experience

1448
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 2: that we like pretend don't happen in public because they're

1449
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 2: not sexy. One thing that really helped me, I'm just

1450
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 2: gonna say this because we're talking about UTIs. Again, things

1451
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 2: don't work for everyone. This isn't medical advice, but one

1452
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 2: thing that really helped me was when I was experiencing

1453
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 2: the chronic UTIs, my eurogynecologist prescribed me a medication called methnamine,

1454
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: which is not to be confused with methamphetaminethine.

1455
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 1: You're like, I had so much energy.

1456
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 2: Methetamine stops. It's not an antibiotic, but bacteria cannot grow.

1457
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 2: It goes into your bladder and basically turns your urine

1458
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 2: into formaldehyde and bacteria can't grow in that environment. And

1459
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 2: for some reason, I think it's like under prescribed in

1460
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 2: America but in Europhoic thing and it's like back from

1461
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 2: the seventies and people kind of just like forgot about it. Anyway.

1462
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 2: There are things that can be done, but again, like

1463
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 2: we have to be like studying them and talking about

1464
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 2: them and prioritizing our health blah bla blah blah blahah.

1465
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 2: The other thing I want to mention is that like yes,

1466
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 2: there can be flare ups of icy that have to

1467
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 2: do with your mental health, but that absolutely does not

1468
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 2: mean that these conditions are in your head. And like,

1469
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 2: it's such a common problem that women will come in

1470
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 2: and be like I'm in like excruciating pain and the

1471
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 2: doctor's like, you're anxious, go calm down, and then it

1472
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 2: will come out later that they had a very real

1473
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 2: physical condition that was happening. So I just also want

1474
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 2: to make note of that, because that's a huge piece

1475
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 2: of this puzzle, is like this certain, sure, certain things

1476
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 2: can be worse in to buy high levels of stress,

1477
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean that our problems are just in

1478
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 2: our heads.

1479
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: Right.

1480
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 2: For example, my friend who was told she had ICY

1481
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 2: for many years discovered on a fluke. They weren't even

1482
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 2: going to tell her. She just like saw it on

1483
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 2: a scan that she actually had a growth the size

1484
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 2: of an orange that was pressing into her bladder for

1485
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 2: years and she just never knew that, and they told

1486
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 2: her it was, you know, just this like general generic

1487
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 2: sort of condition. So that that is a very real

1488
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 2: element here too.

1489
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 1: Why weren't they going to tell her?

1490
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: Because my theory is that the doctor it didn't like

1491
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: fit in with their world diagnosis. Yeah, okay, so the

1492
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 2: technician is the one who was like, just so you know,

1493
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 2: got you, which is just also scary. It's also scary,

1494
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 2: you know, health is health is so important, and we

1495
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: put our lives in the hands of people who aren't

1496
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 2: always there with us to really help as best as

1497
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 2: they can.

1498
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's uh always goes back to what we

1499
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 1: always say, go to different people, multiple opinions, onions. All right,

1500
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: As always, thank you so much for listening. We can't

1501
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 1: wait to see you again next week, and as always,

1502
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 1: remembered to follow your gut watch out for red flads.

1503
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 3: I never ever true.

1504
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1505
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:19,520
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1506
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1507
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1508
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1509
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1510
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1511
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1512
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1513
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1514
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and.

1515
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 3: Spread the word. Let's be honest.

1516
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 7: History is full of Lucky for you, my new podcast

1517
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 7: is unpacking it for you over dinner and with a

1518
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 7: cocktail in hand. I'm Will Sterling, just a hack, actor

1519
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 7: and writer who's joined each week my seventy six year

1520
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 7: old former presidential speech writing doctor co host Craig Smith.

1521
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 7: He's the expert. I'm the idiot.

1522
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 6: So Jefferson went to his editors and said, while John

1523
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 6: Adams was ambassador to Russia in Moscow, he procured prostitutes

1524
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 6: for this.

1525
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 7: Are all my questions are. I like to think that

1526
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 7: the audience is just as dumb as me, but it's

1527
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 7: not possible.

1528
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:26,759
Speaker 6: They often spent the night sleeping under the same blanket

1529
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:29,120
Speaker 6: during the Revolutionary War. Bros.

1530
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 7: That's the real definition of bros.

1531
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1532
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 7: If you can't sleep under the same blanket with a

1533
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 7: dude who's helping you win and war, you're not a man.

1534
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 7: Join us each week to learn something about history you

1535
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 7: didn't know. We're not making America great again because it

1536
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 7: used to be fucked up. We're just trying to be

1537
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 7: better each day and have a laugh along the way.

1538
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 7: Listen to History rated R wherever you get your podcast.

1539
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 3: That's not appropriate. You're not allowed to say that.

1540
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to cut that out