Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Tour comes to these following
Speaker 1: places this very week. November Skokie, Illinois, November the fourth, Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: two shows that night, and I'm shooting a special nice
Speaker 1: November the fifth, Madison, Wisconsin. November the sixth, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: For a full list of dates, please go to my website,
Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash Tour. My name
Speaker 1: is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.
Speaker 1: I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Speaker 2: Today we're chatting with Pete Holmes.
Speaker 1: He's a stand up comedian, he's a philosopher, and he's
Speaker 1: a friend of mine.
Speaker 2: His new comedy.
Speaker 1: Specialist on Netflix.
Speaker 2: It's called I'm Not.
Speaker 1: For Everyone, and I like it because I'm also not
Speaker 1: for everyone.
Speaker 2: Here's Pete. Here's the thing. Well, I don't think I
Speaker 2: think time is an imposition on reality. Explain death. I
Speaker 2: don't think time exists. It's a vehicle. It's like we've
Speaker 2: landed on the moon and the way that we can
Speaker 2: move and interact with the moon is driving that little
Speaker 2: rover thing. I think that little rover thing is time.
Speaker 2: It's merciful. If everything happened to you all at once,
Speaker 2: it would be like like you know, two thousand and
Speaker 2: one a space on it would be overwhelming. So graciously
Speaker 2: we're given this kind of like slow pace. But I
Speaker 2: think death isn't so much the end of you as
Speaker 2: the end of time and the end of your identity
Speaker 2: as yourself. But I think it expands into what it
Speaker 2: always was, which is a still point of infinite potential.
Speaker 1: You know the astrophysicsien, No, no, the astrophysics of what
Speaker 1: you saying it are actually surprisingly is that right?
Speaker 2: Contemporary thinking?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that everything exists all the time, and that the
Speaker 1: humans we narrative eze it right, we've turned it into
Speaker 1: something to help us cope, right, But it's it doesn't
Speaker 1: exist like that.
Speaker 2: Well as a cart tole trobloon, car to lone said,
Speaker 2: ask a ask an eagle what time it is before
Speaker 2: people were on the planet. Like, just ask a fucking
Speaker 2: fish what time it is. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. I watch myself teach that
Speaker 2: to my daughter. My daughter's five, and it's kind of sad,
Speaker 2: but I kind of have to. I'll go, like, what
Speaker 2: was your favorite part of your day, and I'm teaching
Speaker 2: her to build a meaning system of past, present future.
Speaker 2: I think that's a fair thing to do, is you
Speaker 2: know you have to do it. Yeah, yeah, we have
Speaker 2: to do it. Yeah, but we don't have to do
Speaker 2: it as much as we do it. But you know,
Speaker 2: you can get in touch with it. That's one of
Speaker 2: the See, these aren't just interesting thought experiments. They're the
Speaker 2: cessation of your worries. Like if you can really experienceuly
Speaker 2: no like capital k no that it's all now, it's
Speaker 2: all sort of so hard to talk about. No, it
Speaker 2: vanish and with all that vanishing, all your pain and
Speaker 2: fear goes away.
Speaker 1: You know that the early Christian theologians, in particular Origin
Speaker 1: of Alexandria.
Speaker 2: They that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: The early Christian theologians easy they would explain the virgin
Speaker 1: birth away in that particular has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: morality or sex. It was to do with the fact
Speaker 1: that there was a young woman and then there was
Speaker 1: a young woman who had a baby, and it just
Speaker 1: happened just like that, because that's how the universe is,
Speaker 1: and there was no time. That's that was the intellectual
Speaker 1: and theological thinking behind the concept of the virgin.
Speaker 2: Birth metaphorical stuff. Yeah, it's interesting. I used to say,
Speaker 2: I didn't put this in my book, but I wanted
Speaker 2: to put in my book. It was like I used
Speaker 2: to think, when I would write another book, I'll read
Speaker 2: another book. Just give me five minutes. Okay, chat GPT,
Speaker 2: write a book in the voice of Pete Holmes, does it?
Speaker 2: It's terrible? Well, it's a start, a first draft. The
Speaker 2: first draft is always the hardest. Chat GPT.
Speaker 1: I'd like an hour and a half of Craig Artis material. Okay,
Speaker 1: now I'll rewrite it.
Speaker 2: Make it good. I think it's hilarious that comedians make
Speaker 2: fun of chat GPT. It's like they're like, and it
Speaker 2: said said strawberry was a fruit or whatever. I'm like, guys,
Speaker 2: it's incredible that it said anything. Yeah, it's amazing, And
Speaker 2: these jokes won't last very long. Any who. I was saying,
Speaker 2: when I was a fundamentalist growing up, you were yeah,
Speaker 2: just meaning a literalist, just meaning I believe that the
Speaker 2: Bible was a literal like a historical like a science book,
Speaker 2: worse than a historical document, right, because I do think
Speaker 2: the Bible is history. Interwoven with metaphor, but which makes
Speaker 2: it very confusing.
Speaker 1: It's also it's allegorical in its style, so that's very difficult.
Speaker 2: And it's amitic in its style too. You know who
Speaker 2: explain it to me? There were Alexander Shaia, who is
Speaker 2: like an expert in metaphor and mythology. He explained it
Speaker 2: to me like this. He goes in Semitic storytelling, which
Speaker 2: is what the New Testament is, or at the Old
Speaker 2: Testament as well. If somebody is talking to a poor person,
Speaker 2: you tell them a story about losing five dollars. If
Speaker 2: you're talking to him Ted Serranos, you tell a story
Speaker 2: about losing ten million dollars like that detail doesn't matter
Speaker 2: at fucking all. The other point I tried to make
Speaker 2: in my book is like, ah, fuck, I can't remember it,
Speaker 2: but we know this in music, Like in music, we're
Speaker 2: using like poetry and things to help us understand a feeling.
Speaker 2: Can you hear the drums Fermando that the learn Yeah,
Speaker 2: there you go, right?
Speaker 1: It was that.
Speaker 2: Actually it was a Ray Charles lyric about the weather
Speaker 2: and it was something about it it's raining when she's
Speaker 2: gone or something, and we were like, we know he
Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's raining right, They had just a different understanding.
Speaker 1: When I was writing one of my books, I said
Speaker 1: that in Scotland all women were called margaret until nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy four. Nah, I didn't mean that in Scotland all
Speaker 1: women were called margaret until nineteen seventy four. What I
Speaker 1: meant was, yeah, in nineteen seventy four I began to
Speaker 1: think about sex. That's really funny and so yeah, that's
Speaker 1: exactly right, and that's what it is, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would they make of Harry Potter? You know,
Speaker 2: like a future civilization looking at our time would also
Speaker 2: have to sit through similar degrees of you know, bullshit
Speaker 2: if you're looking at it scientifically, and that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2: So anyway, there was a time when I believed that
Speaker 2: the Bible, the point of the Bible was like the
Speaker 2: facts and seven days and physical death and resurrect I
Speaker 2: actually had the list. It was virgin birth, sinless life,
Speaker 2: physical death, and resurrection. That sort of like those were
Speaker 2: non negotiables, things like you couldn't be a part of
Speaker 2: this group and not believe in those things. I don't
Speaker 2: feel that way anymore, but my fantasy when I was
Speaker 2: in high school was like I wish there had been
Speaker 2: video cameras and recording devices when Jesus was right alive.
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, what in real and fucking ruin it?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, I know it's weird
Speaker 2: to kind of equate Batman and Jesus, but I'm about,
Speaker 2: you'll always find a friend here, Pete. If you do that, well,
Speaker 2: remember and Batman begins, sure you do. Where they're where
Speaker 2: they're telling him he can be a symbol. Symbols are powerful.
Speaker 2: Carl Jung pretension alert. No, no, no, very important. He's right,
Speaker 2: very importantly transformed by symbols. We think it's the you
Speaker 2: know what I was just talking to my wife about
Speaker 2: by watching things online Instagram, TikTok, YouTube even that summarize
Speaker 2: things to their point, where actually I'm learning that the
Speaker 2: point isn't the point. The point isn't the resurrection or
Speaker 2: the or the virgin birth even correct. The point is
Speaker 2: It's like thinking Alan Watts said this, he goes, the
Speaker 2: point of your life is life, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like it's this moment, it's today, it's what you're
Speaker 2: doing now. It's like a piece of music. It's like
Speaker 2: we think the end of the life is like the
Speaker 2: last note, that's like the point or or the summation
Speaker 2: or something. No, it's it's the whole flow of the symphony.
Speaker 2: In the same way, you could summarize this podcast to
Speaker 2: the points. Maybe we'll make some interesting points, maybe we'll oh,
Speaker 2: we learned that thing about Harry Potter and reduce it
Speaker 2: into a three minute thing. But the point was actually
Speaker 2: like being lulled into our space. That's what art is
Speaker 2: come in. This is what it was like when Craig
Speaker 2: and Pete started talking, and it's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're they're looking for jokes. What's this cancel? And it's
Speaker 2: about the point? Isn't the point? Is my point? I agree?
Speaker 1: And I actually think it was quite interesting about it
Speaker 1: is that when people want to do that, I have
Speaker 1: I have a theory of when it began mm and
Speaker 1: it's crib notes.
Speaker 2: Crib notes.
Speaker 1: Oh like rib notes, yes, cliff notes for MTV, cribs,
Speaker 1: crib notes. This is my house, this is where the
Speaker 1: action happens.
Speaker 2: These sneakers. But you can get through an episod of
Speaker 2: cribs in like three seconds with and you with crib notes,
Speaker 2: You're fine.
Speaker 1: They call them crib notes in my country, I think,
Speaker 1: although my country, to be honest, is Manhattan, but still
Speaker 1: they call it crib notes or cliff notes wherever it
Speaker 1: is to summarize, to take something like I don't know,
Speaker 1: let's go with great expectations. Sure, which is a book
Speaker 1: which I didn't write it, I will admit it would
Speaker 1: have been vastly.
Speaker 2: Improved with the line.
Speaker 1: In France, all women were called mid gray until yes,
Speaker 1: seventeen seventeen.
Speaker 2: Yeah gray.
Speaker 1: But I think that trying to boil down things and
Speaker 1: to make them accessible, to put them into bite sized chunks,
Speaker 1: is to miss the point of them completely.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And life is the same that I used to
Speaker 2: skip introductions to books because I was like, just fucking
Speaker 2: get to get on with the book. And now it's like,
Speaker 2: I think it's something to do with getting older, hopefully
Speaker 2: a little bit wiser. You're like, it's actual. The foyer
Speaker 2: of the house is like.
Speaker 1: Just as important as the dining room, in many ways
Speaker 1: more important because you know, the foye is a little
Speaker 1: bit of individuality and strangeness and welcome to my world.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal stand up Tour continues this fall.
Speaker 1: For tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash.
Speaker 2: Tour see you on the Road.
Speaker 1: I used to love and I still do actually, and
Speaker 1: I wrestle with this. The first lines of books very important,
Speaker 1: I agree, just to create, to let you know what's coming, right,
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's not It doesn't sum up
Speaker 1: the book. But my favorite one was always the start
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four. It was a bright, cold day
Speaker 1: in April and the clocks were striking thirteen.
Speaker 2: That's great. What the fuck is something is deeply wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great. I love the idea.
Speaker 1: And people always say call me Ishmael and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that one, I don't really. I mean it's it's a
Speaker 1: great book and I love it. It's a fucking masterpiece.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the first line, I don't understand why it's
Speaker 1: so great. Yeah, but when there are lines in you
Speaker 1: know it was the best of times, it was the
Speaker 1: worst of times. Okay, it was life. Yeah, life was
Speaker 1: was was unfolding as it always does, and here's what
Speaker 1: was happening at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, in the ever expanding universe. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way about stand up specials. In fact,
Speaker 2: that's my number one criticism is me going, that's how
Speaker 2: you started. Yeah, yeah, And I know this sounds stupid.
Speaker 2: I'm going to use myself as an example, but I
Speaker 2: miss this opener one of my specials I'm really thinking about.
Speaker 2: I think it was it was called Faces and Sounds.
Speaker 2: I open by smiling, I look at the audience, I
Speaker 2: let the applause down, and I go sometimes I get scared,
Speaker 2: and I'm like that that was it. That's a great beginning.
Speaker 2: I love that. That's a great start to a book.
Speaker 2: I miss. I know sometimes I get scared. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: had a fake opening to a book about my life,
Speaker 2: which I've used in other things. But it's my father
Speaker 2: was an oil man, but our house was always cold,
Speaker 2: which I thought. I thought that while I was in
Speaker 2: our freezing ass house, and I was like, my dad
Speaker 2: delivers home heating oil. And there's there's a real that's
Speaker 2: you get it right, like you see a disconnect.
Speaker 1: The last one that I booked that I completed, I'm
Speaker 1: still note right in another one. But the last one
Speaker 1: that I completed, I woke up with the first light
Speaker 1: in my head and the book came from that.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I woke up in the morning. I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's a book. And it was in the
Speaker 1: time before I loved you. I never thought of the
Speaker 1: world as precious.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that needs a warning. You need a warning. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know it was crazy. And what's crazy about that, Craig,
Speaker 2: was that before you said? I just thought of the
Speaker 2: line in the book came from that. I thought, well,
Speaker 2: that's like Cormick McCarthy, who he didn't say that he
Speaker 2: channeled his books. I'm not saying he's channeled his books.
Speaker 2: I am saying he wrote them like he didn't know
Speaker 2: what was happening. Stephen King's talked about that too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think that's a real thing. I think I
Speaker 2: would use the word channeling like he's tapping into a
Speaker 2: pure creative space that is kind of available to us.
Speaker 2: His antenna was just very, very precise and found the story.
Speaker 2: But he's writing it and he doesn't know what's going
Speaker 2: to happen. But in the book The Road, there's a
Speaker 2: similar line about the boy his son. It's not it.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, oh, it's too much. It's not that.
Speaker 2: I'm saying it's something like something like if the boy
Speaker 2: wasn't precious, then preciousness didn't exist, or something very beautiful
Speaker 2: in a similar way, beautiful channeled from And you're also
Speaker 2: in the same oasis or something.
Speaker 1: We're talking about your friend Carl Jung, the theory of
Speaker 1: the collective unconscious. So that's right, and I think that
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I've written three books. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you the third opening line, or this was
Speaker 1: from the first. The first book I wrote was the novel,
Speaker 1: and the opening line of the book, which I was
Speaker 1: very proud of, was cloven hoofed creature walked this way.
Speaker 2: That's the opening line of the book.
Speaker 1: And then I became convinced that it was also the
Speaker 1: opening line of Stings Autobiography. I don't know why, so
Speaker 1: I had to go and find a copy of Stings Autobio.
Speaker 2: What do you think that just occurred to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I became obsessed that it was the opening line
Speaker 1: of Stings out of Nowhere, out of Nowhere, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't rest until I found out I didn't
Speaker 1: have a copy at home. This is before you could
Speaker 1: just find it on the internet. So I had to
Speaker 1: go to a bookstore and find a copy of Stings
Speaker 1: autobiography and see if it was there. It wasn't, thank god,
Speaker 1: But I can't convince the first line was.
Speaker 2: Molliady or or rock sand Did you like the Police? No? No,
Speaker 2: I never did either. In fact, it's kind of funny
Speaker 2: that you ask when I'm stressed, which isn't often. But
Speaker 2: if I go if the Dark Dog is visiting, I
Speaker 2: hear you. I fucking hate music and my heart just
Speaker 2: just repetitive pop music. Right, So if you I remember
Speaker 2: being in the car with my mom, I'm in the
Speaker 2: back seat and the police are on and they're sending
Speaker 2: out and SSS song and I'm in the back and
Speaker 2: I must say it's a terrible song, and I must
Speaker 2: say sending out in SOS. I want to guess conservatively
Speaker 2: three hundred and seventy two times like it just oh yeah,
Speaker 2: it could just repeats it over And I don't even
Speaker 2: know that I'm having a generalized anxiety disorder, right, but
Speaker 2: I am. I'm a child, and I'm fucking stressed out,
Speaker 2: and I'm harping on that they won't stop saying it,
Speaker 2: and every time they say it, I'm like, that's got
Speaker 2: to be the last time, and then they say it again,
Speaker 2: and at some point I just go ah, and my
Speaker 2: mom goes what because she's having a generalized anxiety disorder
Speaker 2: of her own, and I'm like, they just won't stop
Speaker 2: saying send it out, ASA's I learned a profound lesson
Speaker 2: that day that like, not everyone's having your experience. Some
Speaker 2: people it's just background music. I hear you in the
Speaker 2: music thing, though it's quite interesting.
Speaker 1: There's never a point where I could say I don't
Speaker 1: like music, but there's definitely been a point where I
Speaker 1: kind oft listen to contemp prouty music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is just is just garbage? Oh no,
Speaker 2: if I'm having a generalized anxiety disorder and you put
Speaker 2: on the national In fact, that's why I listen to
Speaker 2: there's music that like saves me from that feeling. But
Speaker 2: my daughter is five and I love her to death,
Speaker 2: and I will listen to whatever she wants to listen to,
Speaker 2: and she wants to listen to, like fucking ice cream?
Speaker 2: What is it? Man and men and men? Menanda to
Speaker 2: buy me? I myself myself And if you're having a
Speaker 2: rough day, that sounds scary. That music makes me want
Speaker 2: to die.
Speaker 1: It's it's funny because both my boys, and particularly the
Speaker 1: youngest one, he wouldn't listen to kids music and I
Speaker 1: put it on and be like no, no, no, really,
Speaker 1: and then his mother, Megan would do on joy division
Speaker 1: because he's like even relax. He'd be like, yeah, well, sir.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you that my one of my daughter's
Speaker 2: favorite songs. And here's the weirdest part. I like it too.
Speaker 2: There is some pop music I like and it really
Speaker 2: burrows into my brain and it's almost like I like
Speaker 2: music too much, if that makes sense, And sometimes I go,
Speaker 2: I don't like music, But really it's because.
Speaker 1: What's too big a subject to see music? Because it's
Speaker 1: like saying Basquier, right, who said art is how we
Speaker 1: decorate space. Music is how we decorate time. So it's
Speaker 1: as big as a word is art? You can you know,
Speaker 1: so you can't say, really music, you have to be
Speaker 1: more specific.
Speaker 2: That's fair. Do you want to hear my quote about art? Yes,
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy it. I go art is highly
Speaker 2: sensitive people reporting back to the group what reality is
Speaker 2: like for them. And that's how I feel. That's really good.
Speaker 2: I like that. I do like that. Just kidding it
Speaker 2: should be it should be. It's a good line. What
Speaker 2: kind of book are you going to write? I have
Speaker 2: notes for another book about spirituality. I like writing books
Speaker 2: that only a handful of people would like to read.
Speaker 1: May I recommend literary fiction because I've written one and
Speaker 1: I'm halfway through another. Nobody reads that shit, so you
Speaker 1: like yet I read it.
Speaker 2: It's very important. And no, I mean you like the
Speaker 2: process of writing it like I.
Speaker 1: Do, because it's only way you're going to find out
Speaker 1: what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, McCarthy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but but look, I'm not comparing myself
Speaker 1: to Courmite McCarthy.
Speaker 2: But he's dead. He won't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he has acolytes. Oh that's right, and they
Speaker 1: on mind droves. Yeah, yeah, no, we won't.
Speaker 2: I won't compare myself. You did compare yourself to Herman
Speaker 2: Melville on my podcast, but.
Speaker 1: I said my book was better. Go on, go on,
Speaker 1: then I did. I only compared myself to Herman Melville, know, in.
Speaker 2: The literary just because he was overlooked. Yeah, well he
Speaker 2: was a bit, to be fair. Yeh yeah, in his lifetime.
Speaker 1: In his lifetime. But here's an interesting thing, because I
Speaker 1: was thinking about that. Only did I talk to you
Speaker 1: about this on the on your podcast that I went
Speaker 1: to the van Go exhibition and yes she did and
Speaker 1: talking about medication.
Speaker 2: No you didn't. You talked about the Andy Warhol and
Speaker 2: you love the gift shop. I did love the idea.
Speaker 2: Tell me about the Van Go.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at the van Go exhibition and the
Speaker 1: and it is transcendent.
Speaker 2: The art is unbelievably beautiful and it's.
Speaker 1: Heartbreaking, league gorgeous, wonderful art, Ben Gogous van Gogius. But
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I wonder because clearly von Go
Speaker 1: if he had left now, it could have been helped
Speaker 1: with contemporary medications. Yes, and I wonder what he would
Speaker 1: I think he would have preferred the medication.
Speaker 2: I always think about this poem. There was an irishman,
Speaker 2: an Irish poet who came on my podcast over ten
Speaker 2: years ago. So I forgive myself for not remembering. But
Speaker 2: he's like, asking a poet for another poem is to
Speaker 2: ask for his heart to be broken, basically, And that's
Speaker 2: kind of what you're saying. Yeah, it's a very interesting topic.
Speaker 2: I have some friends people that I know that went
Speaker 2: on like very strong anti anxiety medication and I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to put that down. I'm saying we need to
Speaker 2: get the dose right because some of these people I
Speaker 2: missed them, you know what I mean. I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 2: it turns out like my friend Joe called me this
Speaker 2: week and he was just open for groceries in Manhattan
Speaker 2: and we just talk fucking nothing, just making each other laugh,
Speaker 2: and the subtitles on for that conversation, We're like, I'm here,
Speaker 2: are you here? I'm a little afraid. Are you afraid? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm afraid? And if I wasn't afraid. Look, mental illness
Speaker 2: is a real thing. I'm just gonna say that one
Speaker 2: more time. And we need help, and we need all
Speaker 2: the help we can get. Sure. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 2: dial it in and everybody would agree with that if
Speaker 2: there gets a point where like if I can't, you're
Speaker 2: docking on me. Now. We're bonding now over anxiety. We're
Speaker 2: helping each other with our anxiety. And if I was
Speaker 2: completely flat, nobody wants to be flat.
Speaker 1: No, But if you are writing to kind of extend
Speaker 1: the mit for a rather clumsy way. But if you're
Speaker 1: on a very bumpy airplane and it gets smooths out
Speaker 1: for a while, it's fucking relief.
Speaker 2: I know I probably shouldn't even be talking about this
Speaker 2: because I don't know, right.
Speaker 1: You know, well, look I think people should lacks a
Speaker 1: little bit. You're allowed to have an opinion. The only
Speaker 1: thing is just because you have an opinion doesn't don't
Speaker 1: have to hold on to it. And also it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be it's not right. Yeah, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not claiming. I'm just saying, look, this is what I think.
Speaker 1: But I will preface it with I'm not a doctor,
Speaker 1: I'm not a priest, I'm not you, and I'm not.
Speaker 2: In your situation. I'm in my situation.
Speaker 1: And I think that the danger with the current orthodox
Speaker 1: drive for everyone to agree is that but if everyone agrees,
Speaker 1: or if you only are comfortable talking to people you
Speaker 1: agree with, you'ren't going to expand your experience, right, And
Speaker 1: if you can't expand your experience, is it really are
Speaker 1: you really going to learn anything?
Speaker 2: Well, we're not They're not good example. There's examples of
Speaker 2: haters who hate everything, and then there is like kind
Speaker 2: of I do see a trend where you're not even
Speaker 2: allowed to not like something. Have you seen less? Like
Speaker 2: something comes out and you're like, well, we're not allowed
Speaker 2: to not like that. I feel that way about cannabis. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we talked about that, so you can't talk
Speaker 2: about weed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like everybody's we is the fucking savior of
Speaker 1: the earth. Weed, you know, get a fucking job heavy.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. It's like I've gotta love weed.
Speaker 1: I never liked weed. When I was doing drugs, I
Speaker 1: didn't like weed. No, I don't do drugs gonna like weed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, that's a very good example. You're not.
Speaker 2: But I thought you were gonna say that Van Goh,
Speaker 2: had he been medicated, wouldn't have made the art. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if he would have.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't, but I feel like but I would wager
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't. I think you're probably right, made or
Speaker 1: different art. I don't know it's different art. It's inconceivable
Speaker 1: he would have done Anthon ber but but it's it
Speaker 1: would have been different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would to that. I would say my best
Speaker 2: stuff comes from a clear, spacious place in me, not
Speaker 2: an agitated, angry place. I might write something agitated and angry,
Speaker 2: but my best jokes come from a place of you know,
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think, you know, because well that's fair.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I wasn't depressed when I came up
Speaker 2: with the best.
Speaker 1: Right, you weren't depressed when you came up with it,
Speaker 1: but the process and getting to the joke it may may.
Speaker 2: Have cooked it up earlier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that to discount see my secret feeling.
Speaker 1: I even hesitate to say this because I know, get
Speaker 1: into trouble for saying it, but because the role of
Speaker 1: being a victim is now fetishized a little bit that
Speaker 1: there seems to be an urge to pathologize every single
Speaker 1: emotion or opinion.
Speaker 2: Or beat of your life.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's necessary to do that. Like
Speaker 1: if you say I really didn't like that thing, well, okay,
Speaker 1: you didn't like it. It's you know, comedy is a
Speaker 1: great example for this, because people will say that's not funny,
Speaker 1: that's not comedy. You go, well, it clearly is, because
Speaker 1: look there's ten thousand people laughing at.
Speaker 2: It, so clearly it is comedy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wouldn't you say, you say I don't like
Speaker 1: classical music, Well, it doesn't mean it's not music.
Speaker 2: It's just not music that you like.
Speaker 1: And the whole idea of saying something isn't a thing
Speaker 1: unless you endorse it you personally, one has to either
Speaker 1: it's binary thinking.
Speaker 2: Is that one or zero?
Speaker 1: It's the is thinking like a machine, it's on or
Speaker 1: it's off.
Speaker 2: And I don't.
Speaker 1: Understand that's that's the last thing we should be fucking doing.
Speaker 1: We have machines to do that for us.
Speaker 2: We don't need to do that, right. Yeah, No, it's
Speaker 2: it's I completely agree. And it is sort of an
Speaker 2: addictdy and it's a narcissistic yistic.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you use the word, and I use
Speaker 1: it myself too, and I want to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about it.
Speaker 2: No, narcissist.
Speaker 1: Narcissist is an interesting one because people it's a very
Speaker 1: hot ticket word to use right now, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's a narcissist, you know, he's kind of just a
Speaker 1: deck Sure.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts about this. Well, there's
Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disorder. Now I sound like I am a doctor. No,
Speaker 2: that that is a real thing. It's absolutely and then
Speaker 2: there are narcissistic tendencies. But I think we could would
Speaker 2: all do well. What's interesting about that is experts in
Speaker 2: the field from the books that I've read would say
Speaker 2: that it's good to have some characteristics of narcissistic tendencies,
Speaker 2: meaning sure some of them are. There's like healthy levels
Speaker 2: of narcissism that I like this where this is going.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is that these conditions are unhealthy
Speaker 1: levels of something that's right, all right. So if you
Speaker 1: can get if you have some fat in your food,
Speaker 1: it's good.
Speaker 2: That's if you have too much then yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Once it gets to a point and I forget what
Speaker 2: the list is, but this, this will make you laugh.
Speaker 2: I was reading a book to see if people are
Speaker 2: the judge of that. I was reading a book to
Speaker 2: see if people in my family were narcissistic. And then
Speaker 2: it's listing the qualities of a narcissist and I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: really for me, but anyone being honest, maybe that's not true.
Speaker 2: I can't speak to any other people. But I was like,
Speaker 2: I have a lot of Like one of them was.
Speaker 1: I understand up, comedian, how can you not have some
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? But then my beloved Valerie, my beloved Valerie, but
Speaker 2: she was like, I.
Speaker 1: Must talk to you off, my beloved valid She was like,
Speaker 1: I take.
Speaker 2: A lot of comfort in No, No one with narcissistic
Speaker 2: personality disorder goes, Oh, no, am I a narcissist? Like
Speaker 2: that's that's right, that's it's almost twenty two. It's a
Speaker 2: good thing. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: It's Catch twenty two is like, yeah, if you visit
Speaker 1: the in Catch twenty two, if you want to not
Speaker 1: fly these missions, you can't be crazy because you don't
Speaker 1: want to be crazy to.
Speaker 2: Want to fly these missions. Well, can I say I'm
Speaker 2: watching as we all are? I'm assuming every single person
Speaker 2: in America is watching the Office at some point in
Speaker 2: their life. Maybe not you, you wild boys, But I'm
Speaker 2: just saying. Angela Kinsey is a close personal friend, my Angela.
Speaker 2: I call her Angela, the Angela from the show. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh she's lovely. Oh she's she's just the greatest girl.
Speaker 2: Is she really? Yeah, she's no fairy chair podcasting. Hell,
Speaker 2: guess who's gonna poach your guests?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's the she's the greatest. Doesn't mean Scotland
Speaker 1: and Josh and the kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. Well she knows that. I'm sure people
Speaker 2: tell her all the time. It's almost like a disorder
Speaker 2: we all have, like we all kind of have to
Speaker 2: be watching the office. Here's my point, though, Michael Scott
Speaker 2: has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and they delight us.
Speaker 2: We like it. I was trying to say to somebody,
Speaker 2: like comedy is a little bit like you go to
Speaker 2: a restaurant so they'll deep fry a twinkie for you.
Speaker 2: It's not good for you, but you wouldn't do it
Speaker 2: if you had to batter up a twinkie and deep
Speaker 2: fry it in oil and you can see the ingredients
Speaker 2: and the fucking nutrition, but you want it and you
Speaker 2: like it. So Michael Scott is like a deeply narcissistic
Speaker 2: person and we love laughing at him. So to your point,
Speaker 2: cleaning everything up and making everybody agree isn't even what
Speaker 2: we really want. And we're back to our friend young.
Speaker 2: We actually want what we don't want a lot of
Speaker 2: the time. It is the duality problem, isn't it. It's
Speaker 2: that book.
Speaker 1: I wonder if what we're doing is falling into the trap.
Speaker 1: Certainly I've fallen into this trap and I might be
Speaker 1: doing it right now. Is that Because I've talked to
Speaker 1: my oldest son about this. He's twenty two and he's very,
Speaker 1: very clever, and he said that, he said, Dad, you're
Speaker 1: talking about forty people on Twitter.
Speaker 2: I don't even fucking know what you're worried about.
Speaker 1: You know what these opinions are, so that like, if
Speaker 1: you focus on that group of people, you're going to
Speaker 1: hear that good thing.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: He seems to not be as incensed by opinions that
Speaker 1: fly them from social media, and I think young people
Speaker 1: are less bothered by it.
Speaker 2: They grew up with it.
Speaker 1: They grew up with it, so it's I see, I
Speaker 1: grew up with the notion of the power of the
Speaker 1: written word, that if something was written down, it had
Speaker 1: an inherent value.
Speaker 2: Now clearly that's totally gone.
Speaker 1: But I believed that anything that was written down was
Speaker 1: worth at least your attention. Yeah, and of course it's
Speaker 1: not anymore because everyone raised everything down and a lot
Speaker 1: of its garbage.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's just like talking now, right.
Speaker 1: Some people can talk very well and they say a
Speaker 1: lot of interesting things, and some people just are me
Speaker 1: talking now.
Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, I mean that's the classic. It doesn't really work.
Speaker 2: But you're like, if you could see the person who
Speaker 2: said something you didn't like, I'm talking about like a hater.
Speaker 2: He could not only I don't mean to judge their life.
Speaker 2: I just mean if you could see how thoughtlessly and
Speaker 2: how like it's just something they do. It's like each
Speaker 2: ship Craig Ferguson, you suck like it was nothing. It
Speaker 2: was just a fart. I look at social media. It's
Speaker 2: like you're opening the window to the like Times Square,
Speaker 2: and it's just filled the noise.
Speaker 1: And why are you listening to this? Why it goes
Speaker 1: against your instincts, particularly if you're a stand up, because
Speaker 1: you wouldn't Heckler do that.
Speaker 2: It goes Seinfeld goes. He comes up a lot. We
Speaker 2: don't comedy doesn't really need to be reviewed. It was
Speaker 2: reviewed that night we did it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I love that and that what That's what keeps
Speaker 2: it pure, and that's what keeps its said about social
Speaker 2: media put down that breadon no trace.
Speaker 1: Atkins, who is a country singer of some repute.
Speaker 2: He's a very growth gentleman. That's the dude. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: was the guy. He's a hilarious guy.
Speaker 1: He's lovely, and he's wrestled with alcoholic demons. He did
Speaker 1: one of the most alcoholic things I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: In my life.
Speaker 1: He he had a fight with his own lookalike. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I don't want to trace Atkins cruise.
Speaker 2: That is, that's about. That's about. That's beautiful. If you
Speaker 2: pitch that though in a writer's room for a movie,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, I don't know. He's fighting with himself.
Speaker 2: He's his own worst enemy. Yeah, I mean all of it.
Speaker 1: But Tray said, I asked him if if he had
Speaker 1: social media and he's said, no, one don't. I said,
Speaker 1: because he said, I said, you don't need to pay
Speaker 1: attention to all these people and him saying bad things,
Speaker 1: and he said, I see it.
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you mean? He said, it takes
Speaker 2: one turd and pool for me not to get in.
Speaker 2: Do you know this story. I'll be embarrassed if I
Speaker 2: told you this when you're on my podcast. But father
Speaker 2: Greg Boyle, I think you told me this. Father Greg Boyle,
Speaker 2: who is a hero of mine and a friend and
Speaker 2: a friend. One am I a fucking spiritual name dropper
Speaker 2: and a friend? But he I mean he's a friend
Speaker 2: of the world. Really. He started Homeboy Industries here in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Anyway. He wrote three books and there must lessens.
Speaker 2: One's called tattoos on the heart. One's called Bargain to
Speaker 2: the choir, and one's called the whole Language. They're all masterpieces.
Speaker 2: He tells this story that Larry David went to Yankee
Speaker 2: Stadium and it was his birthday and they announced it,
Speaker 2: and however, many tens of thousands of people are Yankee
Speaker 2: Stadium sold out game. They all stand up and sing
Speaker 2: Happy Birthday to Larry David. He's on the jumbo tron
Speaker 2: and he's waving. I'm sure you didn't love it, but also,
Speaker 2: you know, it's got to feel pretty good. Sure to
Speaker 2: have the entire like it seems like the entire city
Speaker 2: is singing Happy Birthday. And then he goes out after
Speaker 2: the game. As Larry tells it, he's walking to his
Speaker 2: car and someone drives by and goes, hey, Larry, you suck. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And that's all he got from that night. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: there's actually some neuroscience to this. Shout out to Richard Rohrer,
Speaker 2: another beloved friend of mine and a spiritual. He's a
Speaker 2: brilliant theologian. He talks about the velcro Teflon theory. If
Speaker 2: I say, Craig, and I mean this, you're a You're
Speaker 2: a generational talent. You're one of a kind. Who else
Speaker 2: is like you? These fucking improvised monologues your interview Scott
Speaker 2: even right here, right now, and you're writing it's incredible,
Speaker 2: like you're you're something unique and sparkly and special. We
Speaker 2: see you. If you want to hold onto that, that's teflon.
Speaker 2: You have to think about it and hold it and
Speaker 2: focus on it. I think the time is thirty seconds,
Speaker 2: which is way longer. Yeah, you're not going and I'm
Speaker 2: not even asking you to. But if I say, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to say the mean things, because the way
Speaker 2: the mean things work is even if I don't mean them,
Speaker 2: they stink velcro. Yeah, that's fucked up.
Speaker 1: I've heard it described as narcissism in reverse, like oh,
Speaker 1: you can to see the nag at.
Speaker 2: The kick of what's cutting. Yeah, But I actually think
Speaker 2: there's there's theological implications here as well. I'm interested the
Speaker 2: Garden of Eden. I think all you need is the
Speaker 2: Garden of Eden, the Prodigal Son. I think you can
Speaker 2: summarize the whole thing with the Garden of Ening and
Speaker 2: the Prodigal Sun. But the Garden of Eden is really
Speaker 2: I think it's a masterpiece. Especially when you consider it's
Speaker 2: probably written in like dragonfly blood on the back of
Speaker 2: a dead deer. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: Right in Scotland, that's kind of you know, that's what
Speaker 1: they sells tables, that's that's final draft.
Speaker 2: But the Garden of Eden to me, and I've talked
Speaker 2: about this a lot, so forgive me if no.
Speaker 1: Explain to me, because i haven't heard your theories on this,
Speaker 1: and I'm interested.
Speaker 2: I think it's saying that we would rather So we're
Speaker 2: in the garden. What is that? That's unit of consciousness.
Speaker 2: That's oneness. And what's the problem with oneness? It's identity, Liss,
Speaker 2: there's no Craig in the oneness. It's perfect oneness. So God,
Speaker 2: perfect oneness, perfect wholeness, perfect peace. Not a lot of
Speaker 2: specialness going around. So there we were. Now this the
Speaker 2: story falls apart because it's told in dualistic terms. But
Speaker 2: let's say in dualistic terms, I'm a naked man, naked
Speaker 2: meaning not dress, naked without shame, without shame, but also
Speaker 2: without identity. I don't have my red shirt, I don't
Speaker 2: have my job, I don't have my car, I don't
Speaker 2: have my opinions, my thoughts, my beliefs. It's all God,
Speaker 2: I'm naked. Then there's a woman. Then a snake comes.
Speaker 2: The snake is the ego, and the snake says, fuck this,
Speaker 2: fuck this shit. You want to be in a fucking garden,
Speaker 2: just humming and whist the sucks eat from the tree
Speaker 2: of what good and evil? Yes and no one in
Speaker 2: zero binary duality. Let's leave oneness. And what I like
Speaker 2: about it is that we chose it. What I like
Speaker 2: about the myth is that it's not saying God didn't
Speaker 2: do it to us. He didn't kick us out. We
Speaker 2: wanted it. I think this is interesting. We as an
Speaker 2: aspect of God decided to play a little game. Let's
Speaker 2: eat the apple. Let's have a dream, a dream of
Speaker 2: what suffering, yes, but also glory, pain, separation, but also specialness, shininess.
Speaker 2: You can be Craig Ferguson. Oh there it causes tynis.
Speaker 2: Fucking I did that to make you laugh, to be
Speaker 2: bad at the voice. But so when I say, when
Speaker 2: we're looking for that hit, we would rather be miserable
Speaker 2: and special than blissed out and vanish. This is what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yes, And the thing that I have because
Speaker 1: I think you're right in what you're saying. But what
Speaker 1: I think is quite interesting for me is that I
Speaker 1: have changed my opinion on a lot of things in
Speaker 1: the time that I have been traveling through since my
Speaker 1: inception and birth.
Speaker 2: So like, for example, me.
Speaker 1: Ten years ago even says to you that is perfect,
Speaker 1: and me now says to you it is.
Speaker 2: But I also add to you something else.
Speaker 1: And what it is is this is that we choose
Speaker 1: it to relinquish it, to return to oz was always there, Dorothy,
Speaker 1: the return to Eden.
Speaker 2: Can I say that's the prodigal Sun part?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, that which is great. I mean, you're right,
Speaker 1: and I cut you off before the bo you didn't. No,
Speaker 1: I'm delighted you're saying the second same thing, yeah, which
Speaker 1: is the you gotta come back after Rumspringer. It's not
Speaker 1: rum Springer. If you don't go home, that's right. If
Speaker 1: it's if you stay out there, you're just a fucking junkie.
Speaker 2: But if you go back, it was. There's the part
Speaker 2: of the Garden of Eden story I think is completely
Speaker 2: ego driven, meaning we made a God like us instead
Speaker 2: of the other way around. We made God in our image,
Speaker 2: We made him angry, We put angels with flaming swords,
Speaker 2: and we said, get the fuck out of here, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna punish you. That's all just our own guilt.
Speaker 2: I think you could say for having left. Who knows
Speaker 2: where the guilt comes from? Original sin, isn't it? The
Speaker 2: original sin would be like an original misunderstanding. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's harmless. But even the word sin
Speaker 2: is misunderstood in contemporary usage. I agree.
Speaker 1: You know that the idea that sin is some moral component. No,
Speaker 1: the sin is what separates you from God.
Speaker 2: Sin, you could say, it's separation, it's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: it's sort of benign. Are you a student of Evagris
Speaker 2: of Pontus? Pardon me?
Speaker 1: Evagriates of Pontis, a desert theologian in the third century, right,
Speaker 1: one of the Egyptian.
Speaker 2: How did I miss them? I'm just kidding. Fabulous?
Speaker 1: He is fabulous, a genius. He extrapolated from the theology
Speaker 1: of origin of Alexandria. He came up with what was
Speaker 1: called the eight thoughts, first characterized by the eight thoughts,
Speaker 1: and the eight thoughts were you recognize.
Speaker 2: Them avarice, gluttony, lost right.
Speaker 1: They became the seven deadly sins. And I think sadness
Speaker 1: was folded into sloth. But sadness was one of the
Speaker 1: eight thoughts, and the thoughts that separate you, that are
Speaker 1: they characterized them as they used to talk about them,
Speaker 1: as being demons that would separate you from God or
Speaker 1: wellness or the universe their separations, right, And the idea
Speaker 1: of the idea of sin having like you're naughty, you're
Speaker 1: or you're not naughty is much later in theology.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's much later on. It's you know, it's
Speaker 2: the idea of See.
Speaker 1: I think what happened to Christianity and this is my
Speaker 1: recent theory without Christianity. I'm a big fan of Christianity
Speaker 1: up until about Constantine. Then I think it starts to
Speaker 1: go south when Constantine co ops Christianity as the the
Speaker 1: official religion of the Roman Empire at that point. The
Speaker 1: equivalent today would be Starbucks opening at burning Man that
Speaker 1: you take something which is and it's already happened. It
Speaker 1: isn't Starbucks, but it's already co opted. It's already gone
Speaker 1: because I know about it, right, So it's a I'm
Speaker 1: not saying I know about things. I mean, if I
Speaker 1: know about it. It means it's already gone. I'm the
Speaker 1: sign that it's over right.
Speaker 2: If you see me at burning men, I guess it's
Speaker 2: the last one.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's you know, something that was
Speaker 1: all about a thing became all about something else.
Speaker 2: It was cool op to do it was.
Speaker 1: And it was when there's a great line you know
Speaker 1: the movie The Great Rock and Roll Swindle. It's a
Speaker 1: kind of mock documentary Julian Temple made about the sex Pistols,
Speaker 1: and in it, Julian says to Malcolm McLaren before he
Speaker 1: gets where did you get the idea for the sex
Speaker 1: Pistols the Great Swindle?
Speaker 2: Where did you get the idea?
Speaker 1: And he said, when Elvis Presley joined the army. And
Speaker 1: I thought it's such a cool kind of framing of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it just says Elvis was who he was the
Speaker 1: whole time. It's just that you projected at me joint
Speaker 1: in one thing. You make it a thing, yes, and
Speaker 1: then it becomes something and you that's right.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna Richard Rhorer can explain this much better
Speaker 2: than me, but I think it's ten thirty two is
Speaker 2: when we get like atonement theory, We start thinking of
Speaker 2: Jesus as this like I'm going to pay your check
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. It's like, oh, you're you're evil and
Speaker 2: you're twisted when you know, as father Greg Boyle points
Speaker 2: out that Jesus says you're the light of the world.
Speaker 2: He doesn't say you're the light of the world. If
Speaker 2: you could just get fewer tattoos. Craig, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Or stop saying fuck and shit and yes and stop
Speaker 2: playing with your dingling and all. That's like we want
Speaker 2: that though. That's what we're doing here. I have this joke.
Speaker 2: I'm working on it. It's like, my God is love.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean the emotion love. I mean like
Speaker 2: an ununderstandable yes, a spacious and simultaneously whole oneness that
Speaker 2: is beyondwards right, yes, yes, and brilliant. We can touch
Speaker 2: on it, we can reflect it here, but we can't
Speaker 2: really do much else. But I miss and I do.
Speaker 2: When I thought God was mad at me, I really do.
Speaker 2: It was pretty fun, like thinking. I equate it to
Speaker 2: the Bourne movies, the Jason Bourne movies, like God's in
Speaker 2: the room with the computers and they're like he just
Speaker 2: he's gone rogue. He had sex send the agent swarm swarm,
Speaker 2: and I think we love that. Look at what we do.
Speaker 2: We make up teams and we fight them and we
Speaker 2: gamble and we make up money and we love it.
Speaker 2: So we don't even have to be mad at it.
Speaker 2: But that's the prodigal son. Is your inheritance. So the
Speaker 2: prodigal son asks for his inheritance is consciousness, is awareness,
Speaker 2: is your God nature, which is looking out your eyes
Speaker 2: right now. It's it's how you're hearing me. It's everything.
Speaker 2: It's how you know reality. We can do an experiment
Speaker 2: after this. It's so fun. Anyway, He says, I'm bored
Speaker 2: at the kingdom, same as the Garden of Eden. I'm
Speaker 2: bored Basically, I want my rump shpringer. It's nice that
Speaker 2: you're a king. I want to go and do stuff.
Speaker 2: And God says okay. The king says okay, gives him
Speaker 2: his inheritance, and then he goes in these squanders. Squanders
Speaker 2: isn't quotes, there's no judgment in the story. He just
Speaker 2: goes and kind of implies that he has some sex and.
Speaker 1: Flesh pots of Egypt, I believe it, says.
Speaker 2: Does it? Yeah? And he has some sex and then
Speaker 2: he ends up working with the pigs, which for a
Speaker 2: Jewish Man means the lowest of the love. That's rock bottom.
Speaker 2: But what happens was unlike the Garden of En, there
Speaker 2: are no flaming angels guard it. Flaming angels, angels with
Speaker 2: flaming stories guarding it. Spare the riff, save your career,
Speaker 2: Save your career. We all know it. Let them think it.
Speaker 2: You can't get canceled for what you let them think. Oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. But what the prodigal son
Speaker 2: does that we're all here to do. And it's not sexy.
Speaker 2: It's not that interesting. It's not achieving enlightenment, it's not
Speaker 2: washing away your sins. He just remembers he's free to
Speaker 2: go home. He remembers that Dad isn't mad. And it's
Speaker 2: the greatest story in the world. And it's not that
Speaker 2: great of a story because we would rather he goes
Speaker 2: and like an old testament's not to put down the
Speaker 2: Old Testament, but like the Father's like you can come back,
Speaker 2: we have to work for seven years in the field,
Speaker 2: like that sort of thing. We don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2: He slaughters the fat and calf, he gives them new shoes,
Speaker 2: he gives them the best row, he puts rings on
Speaker 2: his finger. That's the story. We don't like that story. God,
Speaker 2: My God doesn't talk shit, and that's all I'm here
Speaker 2: to do. Craig you see, as fucking dumbass or whatever.
Speaker 2: And he's like, he doesn't even know who Craig is.
Speaker 2: And I mean that in the best possible one. I'm
Speaker 2: very happy with that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when you stop being scared that God, we're talking about
Speaker 2: the untalkable. I can say God loves Craig in a
Speaker 2: certain way. And I can say and in the ultimate reality,
Speaker 2: God is so busy loving you and being love he
Speaker 2: doesn't even know what you are. Like, that's not exactly right,
Speaker 2: but it's so ah that it's almost offensive to us.
Speaker 2: We would rather he loved Craig, but he just it
Speaker 2: just is.
Speaker 1: It's very, very wide and very difficult because the drive
Speaker 1: in contemporary society and does for as Americans in particular,
Speaker 1: is for the individual. Yeah, and we think of the
Speaker 1: oppice of the individual as being the hive mind or
Speaker 1: communism or occultism. And it's not that either, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: I think this is Moses talking about God is none
Speaker 1: shall God says to Moses, none, she'll see my face
Speaker 1: and the live.
Speaker 2: It's not that you see me, you die. It's you
Speaker 2: can't come. It's you can't see Craig can't come, which
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just so excited. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: say this all the time. Pete can't come. In fact,
Speaker 2: you're talking to Pete. That's one of the frustrations. In
Speaker 2: my book. I write Pete isn't enlightened, but I am,
Speaker 2: and that I thought. When I wrote that, I was like,
Speaker 2: I've done it. That's it. That's how I feel. Pete's
Speaker 2: not enlightened. I'm going around just like everybody. Whatever you
Speaker 2: think unenlightened is. I get angry, I get horny, I
Speaker 2: get angry, all that stuff. But there is a spacious,
Speaker 2: quiet place that I can tap into and do. This
Speaker 2: is the example. Round Us says, like, if Craig Ferguson
Speaker 2: comes and sits at the right hand of God, you
Speaker 2: know what that is. Schizophrenia can't come. Craig can't come.
Speaker 2: If you think I am Jesus Christ, that's you're now unstable, right,
Speaker 2: unless you're Jesus Christ, unless you're just But if you
Speaker 2: find the part of you that isn't you, that is Jesus.
Speaker 2: But it's hard to talk about. Here's the example. So
Speaker 2: Rupert Spiro, who's I've never met him, but he's my homeboy.
Speaker 2: He teaches non duality, which is at the core of
Speaker 2: all of this. I think is sort of what we're
Speaker 2: talking about, God being one this thing and you being
Speaker 2: that at its core. And he explains it way better
Speaker 2: than I can for those of you listening, and if
Speaker 2: I can't quite explain this. He had wrote a book
Speaker 2: called Being Aware of Being Aware, which he'll take you
Speaker 2: about twenty minutes to read, but it'll just blow your mind.
Speaker 2: And every chapter is the same thing. He just says
Speaker 2: it a different way. It's incredible. He's also on YouTube.
Speaker 2: It's all just given away for free on YouTube. He's
Speaker 2: amazing British guy, not what you would expect to be
Speaker 2: like a teacher. He's like he looks like you know
Speaker 2: something from Wind in the Willows. But anyway, he's incredible. Well,
Speaker 2: this isn't going to be like a massive point, but
Speaker 2: he talks about like who or what is it that
Speaker 2: is aware of your experience? That is the question when
Speaker 2: we say who am I and I heard that my
Speaker 2: whole life. The most important question you can ask is
Speaker 2: who am I? But I thought that meant like figure
Speaker 2: out Craig's peccadillos. I like coffee, I don't like tea.
Speaker 2: I like it's like you know me? P. That's not
Speaker 2: what that means. What does it mean?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: Who am I? Behind? What is essential to your identity?
Speaker 2: Because when you were a child, maybe you didn't like coffee.
Speaker 2: Now you do. So everything's changing. You were talking about
Speaker 2: your opinions, changing your body, changes your location, change. All
Speaker 2: this stuff isn't essential to you. So what's essential to you?
Speaker 2: Not your thoughts or your feelings, but change.
Speaker 1: Change is the law of God's mind, and resistance to
Speaker 1: it is the source of all pain.
Speaker 2: I like that. Who said that me? When did you
Speaker 2: say it? Right? Now? That now is? It's a new
Speaker 2: now without explaining it. He talks about the knowing that
Speaker 2: you are. So when you I used to do a
Speaker 2: joke like this, I was like sing happy birthday in
Speaker 2: your head? How are you hearing that? That's your awareness?
Speaker 2: Are you your thoughts? Are you the spacious field in
Speaker 2: which they appear? You must never do acid? I love it? Really, no, no,
Speaker 2: I haven't done acid in a long time, but I
Speaker 2: have done it. I would think it would be bad
Speaker 2: for you. Really not in my experience.
Speaker 1: Did you do it combine it with guinness? No, No,
Speaker 1: that's what I did. That's probably where I ran along.
Speaker 1: Alcohol and acids are a very bad combination.
Speaker 2: He talks about the knowing part of you, the part
Speaker 2: that knows. So I see that and something we never
Speaker 2: talk about it. Something knows what it sees and interprets it.
Speaker 2: So he talks about that being like the screen of
Speaker 2: a movie that isn't colored or changed by what happens
Speaker 2: on the movie. So identify with the screen, with that
Speaker 2: knowing presence. So the thing that I was going to
Speaker 2: do with you is if you close your eyes. You
Speaker 2: just did. I just watched them both minds. If you
Speaker 2: close your eyes and get in touch with the like
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard for me to do because
Speaker 2: I'm talking, But if you get in touch with the
Speaker 2: tingly sensation, imagine that you're a newborn baby, okay, no past,
Speaker 2: this is your first moment, so you don't know you
Speaker 2: have a body. Okay, and now I'm going to talk
Speaker 2: to you like you have a body. Get in touch
Speaker 2: with the put your attention on the tingly sensation of
Speaker 2: your mouth, like that you have a mouth and just
Speaker 2: feel it. You can kind of m hmm. This is
Speaker 2: a phenomenon that we should be talking about all the time.
Speaker 2: You can kind of spotlight your awareness and put it
Speaker 2: on your lips, in your mouth, and because you have
Speaker 2: nerve endings there, you can feel it. H And you
Speaker 2: can ask yourself where does that sensation show up? And
Speaker 2: because you don't know anything, you'd go, well, it shows
Speaker 2: up here? Right, There's no place. It's just like I
Speaker 2: feel it here. But then if we say, now, feel
Speaker 2: your hands, you and I both know that your hands
Speaker 2: aren't near your eyes or open you. I mean you
Speaker 2: love it, I do. Your hands are far from your
Speaker 2: mouth right right. But when you close your eyes and
Speaker 2: you just point your awareness to the tingly sensation in
Speaker 2: your hands, where does that sensation show up? Also here
Speaker 2: there's no distance between your mouth and your hands. You
Speaker 2: could do with your feet as well. Also here a
Speaker 2: distant sound, where does that show up in you?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: It's like you're a piece of paper and everything's written
Speaker 2: on that piece of paper and you're the paper.
Speaker 1: I find that quite anxiety provoking.
Speaker 2: What you're tell me why.
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure, I think because it probably it
Speaker 1: feeds into me an idea of when I was struggling
Speaker 1: with alcohol and come out from, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: get off of it. I would experience disassociation, fair great
Speaker 1: amounts of panic and lack of physical context with where
Speaker 1: I was in the world.
Speaker 2: And it reminds me of that, Greg, You're not nuts.
Speaker 2: Most nights. If I get up to pee and I'm vulnerable,
Speaker 2: sometimes these thoughts occur to me as well. And what's
Speaker 2: happening I'm not saying to you. What's happening to me
Speaker 2: is this resistance again that goes back to like, no, no,
Speaker 2: I want to I want to be a body in
Speaker 2: hands and it helps me know and you start to
Speaker 2: freak out until and I haven't. I'm not fully cooked
Speaker 2: until you start to trust of what you are a
Speaker 2: part of and know that to be a loving and say, father,
Speaker 2: that's the prodigal son again. We're we're both prodigal sons.
Speaker 2: We're with the pigs, and we know that our hands
Speaker 2: and our lips are showing up here and everything is
Speaker 2: made of awareness. Touch the table and I feel that
Speaker 2: here it's all here and we're still not quite ready
Speaker 2: to go home. No, not yet. That's what we're doing here.
Speaker 2: Here's the good news, big fucking deal. It's okay. So
Speaker 2: do you have a special coming up? And it's filled
Speaker 2: with hand job jokes and Joe, you know what's so
Speaker 2: weird about v Van. I enjoyed talking about this with you,
Speaker 2: and I certainly don't have any of it figured out.
Speaker 2: But here we are promoting my Netflix ten twenty four
Speaker 2: on Netflix. It's called I Am Not for Everyone.
Speaker 1: You should have called it flesh Posts of Egypt.
Speaker 2: Flesh pots of Egypt. Yeah, as the prodigal son.
Speaker 1: No, it's flesh posts Vidu die I just as we
Speaker 1: talked about it, and I remember that line, flesh posts
Speaker 1: of Egypt.
Speaker 2: Does it mean vagina? Probably, yeah, but it could not
Speaker 2: mean that. Josea three to eight is my favorite Bible verse,
Speaker 2: and it's talking to the prophet Josea. I goes and
Speaker 2: he's talking to I don't know who he's talking to,
Speaker 2: but it's God and he says, go show love to
Speaker 2: your wife or something like the Lord your God shows
Speaker 2: love to the Israelites though they turned to false gods
Speaker 2: and love the sacred Raisin cakes. Oh wow, I'm like,
Speaker 2: what the fucker's sacred raising cakes? I give it a Google.
Speaker 2: I think it means anal doesn't some scholars say it
Speaker 2: means but stuff. Well, you know, there's a.
Speaker 1: Bit of that around even back then.
Speaker 2: There was there was, but people loved it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I like in the Bible is
Speaker 1: that Well there's quite a lot of it I like,
Speaker 1: and quite a lot of it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know where you're coming from with this.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but there's a line in it that I
Speaker 1: think Solomon said it, who was apparently a bit of
Speaker 1: a wise ass. He said none suffers like he who tarries.
Speaker 2: Too long at the wine.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, fuck, I hear you, Solomon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear you, buddy, you tarried a little too long, Sally,
Speaker 2: I hear you.
Speaker 1: All right, Uh, it's always a trip?
Speaker 2: Am I leaving you freaked out?
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to have this exact same con conversation
Speaker 1: with Jaylan on this afternoon's a that's the Bible?
Speaker 2: Are aware? The funny chin