Speaker 1: If you don't have a spiritual life, you're never going
Speaker 1: to stop and ask any questions. You're just going to
Speaker 1: plow through life, and you're going to see everything that
Speaker 1: happens to you as just a random event. I don't
Speaker 1: believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens
Speaker 1: to us is meant to happen to us to teach
Speaker 1: us some kind of a lesson.
Speaker 2: Number one Health and Wellness podcast.
Speaker 3: Jay Shetty, Jay shettyly Madonad Welcome to On Purpose. I
Speaker 3: am so grateful to be here with you today. Thank
Speaker 3: you for the honor and the opportunity.
Speaker 1: And thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: I'm really really happy to be with you. After lots
Speaker 3: of FaceTime calls, yeah, and discussions about this conversation with.
Speaker 1: Fine definitely be in person.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, And I wanted to start off by asking
Speaker 3: you don't do a lot of interviews. We don't see
Speaker 3: you doing interviews, maybe even for the last nine ten years,
Speaker 3: and give or take, what's your intention for being here today?
Speaker 3: Why now? Why today?
Speaker 1: Well, in the past I've usually done I used to
Speaker 1: promote my work, whether that's music or a tour or film.
Speaker 1: But today I would like to talk about my spiritual
Speaker 1: life and the spiritual path that I've been on for
Speaker 1: over twenty eight years. This wisdom has helped me navigate
Speaker 1: them the ups and downs of life. For lack of
Speaker 1: a better expression, people ask me a lot through the years,
Speaker 1: like what is the reason you're still saying? What is
Speaker 1: the reason you keep going? Why have you not fallen
Speaker 1: by the wayside like other people. Definitely a lot of
Speaker 1: my peers who who are no longer with us like,
Speaker 1: what would you say is the key? And I would
Speaker 1: say that is my spiritual life. I absolutely would not
Speaker 1: be where I am or who I am if I
Speaker 1: did not have that. It's helped me enormously, as I said,
Speaker 1: navigate the ups and downs of life. So I feel
Speaker 1: like I would like to share that with people. So
Speaker 1: that's really the point of I'm not here to promote
Speaker 1: a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything.
Speaker 1: I just I want to share something with people that
Speaker 1: has pretty much saved my life. It sounds dramatic, but
Speaker 1: it's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to
Speaker 3: you and a deep part of your life that often
Speaker 3: I feel you don't get to share in other spaces.
Speaker 3: So even though it's been a part of your life
Speaker 3: for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of
Speaker 3: it before. What would you have life look like if
Speaker 3: you didn't find it.
Speaker 1: I would believe that the physical world is all there is.
Speaker 1: I would believe all the illusions, and that would be
Speaker 1: my downfall, and that is most people's downfall.
Speaker 3: What does spirituality mean to you? Because I think that
Speaker 3: word itself means so many things to so many people.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean a spiritual life, A spiritual path could
Speaker 1: could be mean a lot of things. I know that
Speaker 1: you have a spiritual path, and for me, it's not
Speaker 1: really about like who's is the best or you know,
Speaker 1: it's whatever works for you. I've been studying Kabbala for
Speaker 1: twenty nine years, so since nineteen ninety six. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a long time.
Speaker 3: It's a long time, and.
Speaker 1: I'm not a frivolous person. I don't suffer fools gladly.
Speaker 1: If something if I think there's something false about it
Speaker 1: or corrupt or not authentic, I wouldn't have stuck around
Speaker 1: for so long. I've had the same teacher for all
Speaker 1: this time. I feel like, almost like it's my responsibility
Speaker 1: to share with people because I feel like, I feel
Speaker 1: like people need guidance, people need enlightenment, And for me,
Speaker 1: a spiritual life is having an internal life because you
Speaker 1: know this, I'm sure you know. If we get caught
Speaker 1: up in the belief system that our value in the
Speaker 1: world is based on people loving us or other people's
Speaker 1: approval or how much money you have, or how many
Speaker 1: fabulous outfits you have or how many follows you have
Speaker 1: on Instagram, those things don't make us happy. Those things
Speaker 1: don't bring us peace. So having an internal life and
Speaker 1: being able to look internally and having some kind of
Speaker 1: practice whatever that might look like your prayer, your meditations,
Speaker 1: that the time you take out of every day to
Speaker 1: stop and take stock, like contemplate, we live in a
Speaker 1: very busy, chaotic world, lots of noise, lots of distraction.
Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, social media and like all the you know,
Speaker 1: people can't walk down the street without listening to music.
Speaker 1: Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's no peace, there's no quiet. We're not comfortable being
Speaker 1: quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves why
Speaker 1: am I here or what am I doing? Or what
Speaker 1: is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now,
Speaker 1: whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising
Speaker 1: my children, decisions that I make about everything, Really, I
Speaker 1: have to ask myself. And if you don't have a
Speaker 1: spiritual life, you're never going to stop and ask any questions.
Speaker 1: You're just going to plow through life. And if you
Speaker 1: just and you're going to see everything that happens to
Speaker 1: you as just a random event. And I don't believe
Speaker 1: that anything is random. I think everything that happens to
Speaker 1: us is meant to happen to us to teach us
Speaker 1: some kind of a lesson. But the question is are
Speaker 1: you aware enough, are you awake enough? Are you interested
Speaker 1: enough to find out what that reason is?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Why did this happen to me? What is my lesson?
Speaker 1: I don't want to go through life seeing everything that
Speaker 1: happens to me is random. But I also don't want
Speaker 1: to go through life as a victim. And I've had
Speaker 1: a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall into
Speaker 1: the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being
Speaker 1: a victim, or you know, why isn't this happening to
Speaker 1: other people? Why is it happening to me, why don't
Speaker 1: I have what that person has. I'm sure you know
Speaker 1: the expression comparison is the killer of joy, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, you got to get out of that game.
Speaker 1: You have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.
Speaker 3: You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across
Speaker 3: called the third space theory. Have you heard of it.
Speaker 3: It's this idea that as humans around fifty years ago,
Speaker 3: we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home,
Speaker 3: and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church,
Speaker 3: a community center, or a third space. And the point
Speaker 3: of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying,
Speaker 3: was a place that you could look back at work
Speaker 3: and home and you could reflect on your life, you
Speaker 3: could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on,
Speaker 3: what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped
Speaker 3: going to temple, church, community, whatever place of self reflection,
Speaker 3: a place of self reflection, and we ended up with
Speaker 3: working home, and then after the pandemic, we lost work,
Speaker 3: and so now we're in one space and we don't
Speaker 3: have a different advantage point to where we are anymore,
Speaker 3: which is what I think you're saying.
Speaker 1: Go back on even one more step. That to me
Speaker 1: is like a prison. Get if you get, if you
Speaker 1: remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace,
Speaker 1: then you're in the home, and then removed once more
Speaker 1: from home. Is you're looking at your phone, which is
Speaker 1: even takes you out of home.
Speaker 3: It's a great point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so where are you aware?
Speaker 3: You're living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in
Speaker 3: the virtual world, not even in the material world.
Speaker 1: Yes, but in virtual and a virtual world is not
Speaker 1: a bad world. But if you don't have consciousness, there's
Speaker 1: really no point to living.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah. So it's interesting to think about that
Speaker 3: because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea
Speaker 3: that if we all had we need physical spaces to
Speaker 3: sometimes make us do internal things.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.
Speaker 3: What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued what I'm curious?
Speaker 3: What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been
Speaker 3: so supportive and emblematic of your journey, that have kept
Speaker 3: you going at the times. As you said, there were
Speaker 3: so many times you could give up, or things could
Speaker 3: go wrong, or you kept pushing and they kept you locked?
Speaker 3: What were they? What are they? Well?
Speaker 1: One really important thing is studying, making time every week
Speaker 1: to sit down and study. I mean, you can study
Speaker 1: the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahil Gibran,
Speaker 1: or you can study the Vedas you you know.
Speaker 3: And you did that right. You actually studied different traditions.
Speaker 1: And I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbala,
Speaker 1: I was looking for answers.
Speaker 3: And why do you think that was? Why were you
Speaker 3: looking for answers?
Speaker 1: Because I had everything that people would assume would give
Speaker 1: you happiness. I had successful career, I had fame, fortune,
Speaker 1: monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy, and I
Speaker 1: naturally sought out well. When I was a dancer, I
Speaker 1: had a roommate. She was a Buddhist and she would
Speaker 1: get up and chant every day, and so I was
Speaker 1: very intrigued by that, Like nothing bothered her, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Everything bothers me, Everything bothers me. I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a Leo, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but
Speaker 1: I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness
Speaker 1: that everything was happening for a reason. She never got
Speaker 1: upset about things. And this is in the beginning of
Speaker 1: my career when I was living in New York and
Speaker 1: I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened
Speaker 1: to me. It's really scary, traumatic things. And I would
Speaker 1: always ask her her name is Marianne. I would always
Speaker 1: say what, like why are you like never upset? So
Speaker 1: I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't
Speaker 1: speak to me. And then later on I started practicing
Speaker 1: yoga Ashtanga yoga and my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still
Speaker 1: has a you know Eddie, Yeah, he's amazing. I got
Speaker 1: quite caught up in and competitive about like first series,
Speaker 1: second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is
Speaker 1: that a lot of people would come into his practice,
Speaker 1: his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do
Speaker 1: the posts. They would just go and sit in front
Speaker 1: of the statue of ganesh or light candles or prayer.
Speaker 1: And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me
Speaker 1: because sometimes I would have injuries, I would or I
Speaker 1: would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga, and he say,
Speaker 1: look are you breathing, And I'd say yes, and he said,
Speaker 1: you're practicing yoga. So I realized that I was too, still,
Speaker 1: too caught up in the physical poses. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. The poses
Speaker 1: are just something that you do to breathe through, to
Speaker 1: calm your nervous system down and to bring you back
Speaker 1: to your center. And that really spoke to me. There
Speaker 1: was a big now it was a painting on the
Speaker 1: wall of the yoga studio. It says desire and detachment.
Speaker 1: And I said, what does that mean? And he said, well,
Speaker 1: of course we want. We want all the beautiful things
Speaker 1: in life. We want all the pleasures, we want, all
Speaker 1: the happiness, we want every we want it all. There's
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that which can't be attached to it,
Speaker 1: because then if you're attached to it and you don't
Speaker 1: have it, what's going to happen to you? So I
Speaker 1: studied that for a while, and I studied Sanskrit. I
Speaker 1: had a teacher, and you know, I learned that the
Speaker 1: vibrations of the letters, you know, had a calming effect
Speaker 1: on your nervous system and centered you and placed you
Speaker 1: firmly rooted in the earth. And all of that made
Speaker 1: sense to me. But then again, nothing happens by accident.
Speaker 1: But I was pregnant with my daughter, Lola, my oldest daughter,
Speaker 1: and I suddenly realized I was living in la I
Speaker 1: suddenly realized, I'm going to be responsible for an other
Speaker 1: human being. What am I going to teach her? I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm like a meteor like making my way through
Speaker 1: the you know, the on this planet. Like you know,
Speaker 1: I have great survival instincts, I have a great work ethic. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm very ambitious all of those things. But I was
Speaker 1: never like I was just knocking him down, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, and not like looking back like I'm
Speaker 1: going to be somebody, because that's you know, that's why
Speaker 1: I came to New York in the first place. I
Speaker 1: will never go back to the nobody life I had
Speaker 1: when I was a child growing up. So I definitely
Speaker 1: was fueled by an inner drive, but I would not
Speaker 1: say that I was spiritual or conscious. When I was pregnant,
Speaker 1: I suddenly realized I knew nothing and I was a
Speaker 1: slave or a victim of other people's opinions of me.
Speaker 1: And I didn't have really even though it looks like
Speaker 1: and looked like I was confident, brave, audacious, whatever you know, I,
Speaker 1: deep down inside it was not.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: I was at a dinner.
Speaker 3: Party while you were pregnant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was at a dinner party at my friends
Speaker 1: in La and there was a woman sitting next to
Speaker 1: me and I knew her vaguely. She's a costume designer.
Speaker 1: She was a costume designer. Her husband's a director. And
Speaker 1: she said, oh, you should come with me to class.
Speaker 1: And I said, what class. I'm open to classes, by
Speaker 1: the way, I love being a student. So what's the
Speaker 1: class all about. She said, there's a teacher there. It's
Speaker 1: something called Kabbala. It's next to a synagogue. And I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, so he's Jewish and she said yeah,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have anything to do with being Jewish.
Speaker 1: It's just a belief system, not a belief system, like
Speaker 1: a philosophy about life that you know, you could learn
Speaker 1: a lot from. And I said, okay, I'll go. So
Speaker 1: I did, and that's how I met my teacher. And
Speaker 1: I literally would sit in the back of class for years.
Speaker 1: Mostly men were in the class at the time. It was,
Speaker 1: but everything that he said seemed to make so much
Speaker 1: sense to me and gave me courage to be who
Speaker 1: I am and who I meant to be, and made
Speaker 1: me actually think about intention and a real sense of purpose,
Speaker 1: because my sense of purpose can't just be I want
Speaker 1: to be rich and famous, or I want to be popular,
Speaker 1: or I want to sell a lot of records, because
Speaker 1: none of that lasts. But it wasn't until I went
Speaker 1: to class that I actually started thinking about those things.
Speaker 1: So I just kept going and here I am today.
Speaker 1: But you know, motherhood are being a parent is really
Speaker 1: what made me start asking questions that I most likely
Speaker 1: I should have asked them sooner, but I didn't because
Speaker 1: I was just caught up in my self.
Speaker 3: I love that story for so many reasons, one of
Speaker 3: them being that my journey to my spirituality had certain
Speaker 3: similarities in that. Not that I was pregnant, so definitely
Speaker 3: not that one. But I had a friend and friends
Speaker 3: who were starting to get interested in spirituality, and they
Speaker 3: invited me to hear a monk speak. And I'd seen
Speaker 3: monks while I was growing up, but i'd never really
Speaker 3: engaged with one or really understood what they did or meant.
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad I said yes to going along.
Speaker 3: And I was very young. I was eighteen nineteen years old.
Speaker 3: I wasn't even seeking. I was open and I was curious, right,
Speaker 3: And to be honest, I was doing what everyone else
Speaker 3: was doing at that time when you're eighteen nineteen year
Speaker 3: old kid like you experimenting, experimenting and doing everything else
Speaker 3: under the sun. But I'm so glad I went because now,
Speaker 3: looking back, I find that after meeting the monks that
Speaker 3: I met, it gave my life a compass at a
Speaker 3: very early age that I'm so grateful for because it
Speaker 3: changed the entire trajectory of my life. I can't imagine
Speaker 3: what I would have ended up doing in the same
Speaker 3: way as you did. And it sounds dramatic, but it's
Speaker 3: true that without the group of friends that invited me
Speaker 3: to go along and meet my teachers who would become
Speaker 3: my future teachers, I can't imagine what life could be like.
Speaker 1: And are those teachers still your teachers?
Speaker 3: Yes? Absolutely, still since that time, so it's been nearly
Speaker 3: twenty years now. That's meaningful, yeah, very meaningful.
Speaker 1: And are your friends that came with you still also studying.
Speaker 3: Or one of those one of those yes? Absolutely. One
Speaker 3: of those friends was my best man at my wedding
Speaker 3: and he studies under the same teachers.
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, what about the woman who took me
Speaker 1: to class? No, okay, no, sho stick with it.
Speaker 3: Are you still there at all or not? Yes?
Speaker 1: I am sometimes.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's amazing to hear that you had this ambition
Speaker 3: and this drive to become successful and at the same
Speaker 3: time there was this spiritual calling. Yes, that was almost
Speaker 3: happening simultaneously. How did you reconcile the two when to
Speaker 3: the external lie they could look very opposite. How did
Speaker 3: you actually right look weird?
Speaker 1: You mean, not weird in.
Speaker 3: The sense of I think a lot of people assume
Speaker 3: that spirituality and success don't go together. A lot of
Speaker 3: people would.
Speaker 1: Think that's absurd. Those are narrow minded people. I mean,
Speaker 1: you need to be spiritual to be successful. Success is
Speaker 1: having a spiritual life period. It's interesting because I had
Speaker 1: this boyfriend some time ago, and after we broke up,
Speaker 1: we saw each other years later, and I was telling
Speaker 1: him about Cabal. He's like, oh, yeah, that makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense because you grew up as a Catholic.
Speaker 1: I know how religious your mother was. And I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not what it is at all. It's got nothing
Speaker 1: to do with religion. Everybody has to find the path
Speaker 1: that speaks to them and resonates with them. But I
Speaker 1: do think it's important to have one. And I dare
Speaker 1: say if you didn't have a spiritual path, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: be as successful as you are today. I will make
Speaker 1: that assumption in your work, in your marriage, in your friendships,
Speaker 1: all your relationships. It honestly, it sounds like a really
Speaker 1: like a cliche your spiritual life. Even I was like
Speaker 1: the reason, but it's just got a bad rap. You know, you,
Speaker 1: like one hundred percent can have a spiritual life and
Speaker 1: be successful. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have one.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about how your spiritual life has impacted your
Speaker 3: different roles, because you played so many roles in life,
Speaker 3: and let's start with artists, because that's what the majority
Speaker 3: of our viewers and our audience will connect with you
Speaker 3: on your spiritual life has directly impacted your art. When
Speaker 3: did you feel it was first introduced to your art?
Speaker 3: How was it introduced? How would you use it to
Speaker 3: inspire your art?
Speaker 1: About a year after I started studying, I made my
Speaker 1: Ray of Light album and that is one hundred percent
Speaker 1: influenced by my study with spiritual practice, like a door
Speaker 1: opened for me and I certainly and maybe I was
Speaker 1: spiritual without knowing it unconsciously. But and some things happened.
Speaker 1: I mean often things would happen where I would have
Speaker 1: visions or I would get ideas and I would manifest them.
Speaker 1: And if you're too busy to sit for a moment
Speaker 1: and think, Wow, that's so amazing what just happened? I
Speaker 1: channeled that, Like you don't actually know that you're tapping
Speaker 1: into another dimension until you start paying attention to the other,
Speaker 1: to the idea that there is more to life than
Speaker 1: you and I sitting in this room on a chair,
Speaker 1: Like if you believe in energy, and you believe in
Speaker 1: universal laws, and you believe in quantum physics, like the
Speaker 1: possibilities are endless, and miracles, the idea of miracles is
Speaker 1: not a foreign concept. It's not a lucky strike, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It definitely affected my work. I
Speaker 1: became conscious of the fact that I was and am
Speaker 1: I am channeling, Like that's what I'm doing. I don't
Speaker 1: own it. It's not mine. I am a vessel for it.
Speaker 1: I'm a vessel for this light, which in turn, my
Speaker 1: goal is to share with other people now that I
Speaker 1: can do that through my work. I can do that
Speaker 1: through my music, I can do that through my relationships
Speaker 1: with people. I can do that as a friend, I
Speaker 1: can do that as a mother, as a parent. So
Speaker 1: you realize that it can. It informs every part of
Speaker 1: your life. But the one really important thing, well, one
Speaker 1: of the many important things that my teacher taught me
Speaker 1: was that I am not the owner of my talent.
Speaker 1: I am the manager. As long as you keep that
Speaker 1: consciousness and you're aware like people who run to say
Speaker 1: I did that, that was my idea. I mean, you
Speaker 1: created an opportunity for yourself by allowing yourself to be
Speaker 1: a vessel for this. Call it what you like magic.
Speaker 1: I think it's magic. I think when you channel artistic
Speaker 1: ideas and you have creative visions, it's magic. And when
Speaker 1: you think it overthink it, or you start thinking about
Speaker 1: how much of that you own, you stop it. That's
Speaker 1: why a lot of I would say, this is my
Speaker 1: observation that a lot of people have these great kind
Speaker 1: of meteoric careers and they rise up and they take
Speaker 1: the world by storm, and they influence the masses, and
Speaker 1: they and then they just something happens and they can't
Speaker 1: handle the light and they're not even aware of it,
Speaker 1: and in a way they fly too close to the
Speaker 1: light and it burns them. Yeah, and I would say
Speaker 1: that's really true about many of my peers that I had.
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to know them, whether that's Prince
Speaker 1: or Michael Jackson or Jean michelle boskiat the painter like
Speaker 1: the these are like people who had just were channeling, channeling,
Speaker 1: But I also don't think they understood like the concept
Speaker 1: of their their what they were channeling, and that you know,
Speaker 1: there has to be some kind of restriction. There has
Speaker 1: to be some kind of filament. There has to be,
Speaker 1: you know, like people like to take drugs, right why
Speaker 1: because it makes they're they're actually channeling light where there
Speaker 1: you know, tripping on acid, but it's light with no restriction,
Speaker 1: and then that's what kills you or burns you out
Speaker 1: to the light. No, no, no, thank God.
Speaker 3: Because everybody was when everyone else was doing.
Speaker 1: The universe God, Honestly, people ask me that all the
Speaker 1: time because I grew up when I came to New York,
Speaker 1: when I was broke and I had no friends, know
Speaker 1: where to live, no nothing, Really what protected me from
Speaker 1: you know I was held a bit gunpoint, I was robbed,
Speaker 1: like I was raped. I like, always horrendous things up
Speaker 1: to me, But I just feel like I've always had
Speaker 1: a guardian angel. It just it took me a minute
Speaker 1: to figure out that how blessed I was and that
Speaker 1: the universe was protecting me and looking out for me.
Speaker 3: Was that a realization that came after because I mean
Speaker 3: when you talk, well, when you talk about the events
Speaker 3: of I mean getting raped, being held at gunpoint, these
Speaker 3: are extremely traumatic, stressful, I mean the most extreme tragic
Speaker 3: events people could go through in their life. The realization
Speaker 3: you're sharing today, How long talk to me about the
Speaker 3: journey of having that experience and then getting to the
Speaker 3: realization you just mentioned, because I'm assuming it's not immediate
Speaker 3: and no.
Speaker 1: Through that first there was just my determination that I
Speaker 1: think I was so I had such an unhappy childhood
Speaker 1: that whatever happened to me in New York City, I
Speaker 1: was like, whatever happens to me is better than what
Speaker 1: my life was. So I'm gonna I'm sticking around. I'm
Speaker 1: not going back. But you see, the worst things that
Speaker 1: happened to you are the best things that happened to you.
Speaker 1: Because if that had if my childhood hadn't been what
Speaker 1: it had been, if I had lost my mother, if
Speaker 1: I hadn't had all of these challenges as a child,
Speaker 1: I would have thought of my home as a place
Speaker 1: of comfort and I would have gone back. But I didn't.
Speaker 1: So that's what kept me going. And then you know,
Speaker 1: there are challenges in my career though. Even though I
Speaker 1: was very successful, I went through many periods of time
Speaker 1: where the press was beeeding up on me. I was demonized.
Speaker 1: What kept me going? I don't I don't know, like
Speaker 1: I said Guardian Angels, But again I wasn't conscious of
Speaker 1: it until I was pregnant. Then I start to see,
Speaker 1: like everything started to like come into focus for me.
Speaker 1: But it's not. I make it sound like it's an
Speaker 1: easy thing, like studying, Like the more you know, the
Speaker 1: harder everything is, and the more enlightened you try to become,
Speaker 1: the more conscious you try to become, the more tests
Speaker 1: you have, the more you know. It's like why, Like
Speaker 1: the more you know, the more you realize you don't know,
Speaker 1: and the more you aspire to be conscious, the more
Speaker 1: you feel like everyone's trying to drag you down and
Speaker 1: take you out of it and convince you that it's
Speaker 1: not true or you know the tests, Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: know life is a test, let's face it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about, as you were saying that a
Speaker 3: bit earlier, of managing that balance between recognizing you are
Speaker 3: a manager of the light and you are not the
Speaker 3: light itself. I was thinking of this story about Marcus
Speaker 3: Aurelius where he was followed around the Roman town square
Speaker 3: by an assistant, and the assistant's only job was to
Speaker 3: whisper in his ear, You're just a man, You're just
Speaker 3: a man, because people would praise him, and people would
Speaker 3: shower him with accolades and compliments, and the assistant would
Speaker 3: remind him. And it said that that was done so
Speaker 3: that he could always remain grounded. I can imagine for
Speaker 3: you to not fall into the trap of believing you're
Speaker 3: the light is extremely difficult when you're one of the
Speaker 3: best selling artists of all time, when, like you said,
Speaker 3: you name the company, there's only the Beatles, yourself, Michael Jackson,
Speaker 3: that sit in this esteemed group of individuals who've achieved
Speaker 3: incredible things. How did you hold on to that beautiful
Speaker 3: belief that you're not the light and your manager of
Speaker 3: the light when anyone else could easily believe they were.
Speaker 1: By continuing to have a spiritual practice spiritual life, by
Speaker 1: continuing to study like always pulls you back two center.
Speaker 3: Were you able to keep it up when you were
Speaker 3: like on tour or when you're building you albums? Wow?
Speaker 1: Everyone crazy? My manager's like, why can't we have shows
Speaker 1: on this night? Or why are you late? Because I'm
Speaker 1: because I'm praying? Like what you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, would you.
Speaker 1: People who are only focused on absolutely pray before every show,
Speaker 1: But people are focused on making money are definitely not
Speaker 1: focused on spiritual life. You have to have your feet
Speaker 1: in both worlds.
Speaker 3: And I literally wouldn't do a show on a day
Speaker 3: because that that was your study day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or I would be late. Yeah, I get a
Speaker 1: lot of shit for being late.
Speaker 3: Walk me through.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's really hard to balance being a parent, having work,
Speaker 1: having a spiritual life. You're you're constantly juggling. You know,
Speaker 1: there's it's not there's not a lot of time to rest.
Speaker 1: And if people don't recognize that, then they're just going
Speaker 1: to look at you in a very one percent, like
Speaker 1: superficial way and go you're late. It's like but you
Speaker 1: don't understand what I was doing before I got I
Speaker 1: became late.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about how spirituality affected you your
Speaker 3: role as a mother. Obviously you said that becoming a
Speaker 3: mother yourself is actually what even began that enlightenment. It
Speaker 3: kind of began that journey. It felt like a responsibility,
Speaker 3: It felt like a moment of change.
Speaker 1: How is well, my mother died after giving birth to
Speaker 1: all my brothers and sisters, so literally, like the year
Speaker 1: after my youngest sister was born, my mother died. So
Speaker 1: I always equated motherhood with death. So and I also
Speaker 1: equated it with I could see she was not happy.
Speaker 1: I could see she wasn't living the life she wanted
Speaker 1: to live. I equated it with death, or I equated
Speaker 1: it with no freedom, or I equated it with no
Speaker 1: life except taking care of other people. And so when
Speaker 1: I started, when I came to New York and I
Speaker 1: started my career, I was like, no, this is not
Speaker 1: for me. I don't want to be a mother. I
Speaker 1: don't want that. I wasn't saying it out loud, but
Speaker 1: I was thinking that, like, why would I give all
Speaker 1: of this up? I worked so hard for it. Well,
Speaker 1: one day I found that I was pregnant and I
Speaker 1: and I had been running away from it for so long.
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't say I was in a stable relationship,
Speaker 1: but I loved her father, so I wasn't really thinking
Speaker 1: it through. But I was like, Okay, this happened. This
Speaker 1: happened to me, so it's meant to happen to me.
Speaker 1: But honestly, what the hell am I going to teach
Speaker 1: my daughter? Like, how am I going to guide her?
Speaker 1: I've just been living this, you know, completely selfish life
Speaker 1: really that you know turned out good in many ways,
Speaker 1: but in reality, I was doing everything for my own self.
Speaker 1: And I also kind of thought, well, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm pregnant, so I'm going to be a mother, so
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out. I'll work it out. But honestly,
Speaker 1: I was scared shitless and I wasn't in a traditional relationship.
Speaker 1: And once again, like this is the story of my life.
Speaker 1: I keep finding myself in unconventional or untraditional or unusual
Speaker 1: or unfamiliar places, and I have to keep adjusting. And
Speaker 1: I say that, I would say that that is also
Speaker 1: the reason that I'm still here and still going and
Speaker 1: have the strength to fight things or just to survive
Speaker 1: because being too comfortable in life, I would say, is
Speaker 1: the downfall of a lot of people who started off
Speaker 1: taking chances, taking risks.
Speaker 3: Is that something success does to you? Do you think
Speaker 3: where in the beginning you take risks and you get it.
Speaker 1: I feel like that happens to other people, not me.
Speaker 1: I think I've always been felt like an outsider in life.
Speaker 1: I felt like an outsider growing up in Michigan. I
Speaker 1: felt like an outsider when I came to New York.
Speaker 1: I felt like an outsider when I moved to LA
Speaker 1: and had my Hollywood life. You know, I always felt
Speaker 1: like I did when I was in high school. I
Speaker 1: don't fit in, and not fitting in is what saves you,
Speaker 1: and that you know studying Kabala, No nobody else was
Speaker 1: interested in it, not my friend group, And if I
Speaker 1: would speak about it to people, they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Having a spiritual life isn't necessarily going
Speaker 1: to make you popular, but if you're a conscious person
Speaker 1: searching for truth, then it's going to be interesting. Like
Speaker 1: I'm interested in your spiritual path, your spiritual life. I
Speaker 1: want to know what you do, what it does for you.
Speaker 1: I want to know how you do it because I'm curious,
Speaker 1: and curiosity and being an outsider, and those are the
Speaker 1: things that actually save you, even though it's not supported
Speaker 1: in our society to think outside the box, to take
Speaker 1: the road less traveled by, to not be so concerned
Speaker 1: with approval public approval. And now we live in a
Speaker 1: world where everyone follows algorithms, and algorithms are the opposite
Speaker 1: of taking chances. They are the opposite of being unique.
Speaker 1: They're the opposite of spiritual life. They're the opposite of consciousness.
Speaker 1: That's why artificial intelligence cannot duplicate consciousness. It can duplicate
Speaker 1: doing things following formulas, but it can't duplicate consciousness. So
Speaker 1: now have we gotten really?
Speaker 3: After that, I love it, thought it's great to be
Speaker 3: in your stream of consciousness, and that on that point
Speaker 3: I will get back. But I often get asked the
Speaker 3: question right now when I'm on panels of do I
Speaker 3: ever believe that AI will have a soul? And my
Speaker 3: response is always I just hope that the people who
Speaker 3: are building AI have a soul, because yeah, ultimately it's
Speaker 3: becoming a reflection of whatever is inside of us. But
Speaker 3: I digress, going back to going back to how gone
Speaker 3: you're going to say no.
Speaker 1: You're you're right, yep, the people who make it, but are.
Speaker 3: They Yeah, that's the most important part.
Speaker 1: That's the scariest part.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the intention and the purity and consciousness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just repeat that like a mantra. Consciousness
Speaker 1: is everything. Consciousness is everything, but a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't even know what that is.
Speaker 3: Became a mom and you're trying to teach your children
Speaker 3: about I guess I'm assuming you will. Yeah, you wanted
Speaker 3: to pause some of these teachings on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they grew up learning it and studying it,
Speaker 1: studying or listening to me, study with my teachers, or
Speaker 1: listening to other people, and they would bounce back and
Speaker 1: forth between thinking it was silly or something weird that
Speaker 1: mom does, or but I see that it has impacted
Speaker 1: all of them.
Speaker 3: What makes you see that because they study.
Speaker 1: Not all of them. But I feel like my children
Speaker 1: who have a spiritual life are happier than the ones
Speaker 1: who do not.
Speaker 3: But obviously they could start at any time. It could happen.
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, there's no cohercion and spirituality like
Speaker 1: if you either it speaks to you or it doesn't.
Speaker 3: I remember my dad was trying to get us to
Speaker 3: do things for so long, and you rejected it so hard, because.
Speaker 1: Yes, well that's the other thing. Children always reject their
Speaker 1: parents the path they followed, their belief systems. They think
Speaker 1: it's stupid, and then they are they come back around
Speaker 1: a little bit totally. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that famous quote that says, the day you
Speaker 3: realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you
Speaker 3: that you're wrong. And I think it's en often when
Speaker 3: experienced that people have. Yeah, how did kabbala impact your
Speaker 3: and your spiritual practice impact your role as a daughter, because,
Speaker 3: like you said, you lost your mother when you were five.
Speaker 1: To a certain extent, I resented my father growing up
Speaker 1: because I felt like he wasn't present for us emotionally.
Speaker 1: He did have a lot of responsibilities, and I's a
Speaker 1: deeply Catholic person, but I don't I felt like he
Speaker 1: followed his spiritual path or he followed Catholicism because that's
Speaker 1: how it was, that's how he was raised, that's how
Speaker 1: it was done when I was growing up. If I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask a question about why do we do this,
Speaker 1: why are we genuflecting, why are we receiving the body
Speaker 1: and blood, of Christ. Why is my father didn't have
Speaker 1: an answer, He'd just say that's what is written. And
Speaker 1: what drew me to Kabala was that I could ask
Speaker 1: questions and there were answers and questions were invited, which
Speaker 1: is the opposite of how it was brought up. So
Speaker 1: I thought I looked at my father as kind of
Speaker 1: like a religious robot, you know what I mean. Not
Speaker 1: that he's not a good person, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be a robot, and especially having a spiritual life,
Speaker 1: I started to see my father as a human being
Speaker 1: and see that he was a human that made mistakes
Speaker 1: and that he did the best with what he was
Speaker 1: taught he was given. When those cylinders start clicking in
Speaker 1: your head, you start to have a lot more compassion,
Speaker 1: not just for your parents, but for all people who
Speaker 1: don't see life the way you see it, that you
Speaker 1: don't agree with. It brought me to a place where
Speaker 1: I could have more compassion for him.
Speaker 3: I mean that seems like a really big gift, yeah,
Speaker 3: to have the understanding, and I could agree. I think
Speaker 3: spiritual context create so much compassion when you are able
Speaker 3: to zoom out and look at someone's life like I
Speaker 3: remember the moment I really had compassion for my dad
Speaker 3: was when I visited the home he grew up in,
Speaker 3: which was this room. I mean, I can't even compare
Speaker 3: it to this. His home was like probably just from
Speaker 3: here to here, like his entire home and they shared
Speaker 3: a bathroom with twenty thirty families. Yeah, and we went outside.
Speaker 3: I was nine years old. We're in India and there's
Speaker 3: cockroaches around us in Pune, and there's cockroaches around his home.
Speaker 3: There's bats in the you know, and it's just like
Speaker 3: and inside. And I was nine years old and I
Speaker 3: couldn't believe that. You know, that's when my dad grew up.
Speaker 3: And it was almost like something clicked where I was
Speaker 3: like I, unless I saw that, I wouldn't have had
Speaker 3: that experience because it was always easier to assume that
Speaker 3: their life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well that's the thing, like I say to my
Speaker 1: kids all the time, like you're judging me by the
Speaker 1: chapter you arrived in, Like this is not how my
Speaker 1: life has been, and it's really hard for kids to
Speaker 1: see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, going there was probably one of the best
Speaker 3: things that ever happened to me, because it's what you're saying.
Speaker 3: I was able to go to a previous chapter in
Speaker 3: someone's life. And even though my childhood we went well
Speaker 3: to do or we didn't have anything, but we didn't
Speaker 3: have a lot. Going to see that, I was like,
Speaker 3: oh gosh, my life is a million times better than this,
Speaker 3: and having that context was huge for me. I want
Speaker 3: to hear about how you were able to apply these
Speaker 3: principles in the difficulty of the big things you're talking about,
Speaker 3: because whether it's reconnecting with our parents, whether it's recovering
Speaker 3: from being raped, whether it's dealing with these challenges you've
Speaker 3: dealt with. As you said, it doesn't up and overnight.
Speaker 3: It's not easy. It is the level of study and work.
Speaker 3: But talk to me about the emotional journey of shifting
Speaker 3: from a victim to whatever you would call this on
Speaker 3: the other side, because it would be very natural for
Speaker 3: anyone to feel that way. I want to hear about
Speaker 3: the emotional journey and the spiritual journey you went on.
Speaker 3: What were some of the steps or stages that you
Speaker 3: saw that if anyone is listening or watching, can recognize
Speaker 3: and potentially well.
Speaker 1: The first thing is you're suffering all the time if
Speaker 1: you don't have a spiritual life, like you're just suffering
Speaker 1: all the time, and you really think that whatever is
Speaker 1: happening to is like something that's never going to end,
Speaker 1: and you drew the wrong.
Speaker 3: Card, you know, That's how you feel.
Speaker 1: That's how I used to think. And even now since
Speaker 1: I've been studying, there's been times where I've been really
Speaker 1: challenged and really suffered in certain situations, and I if
Speaker 1: I didn't have a spiritual life, I don't know how
Speaker 1: I wanted. You know, there were moments in my life
Speaker 1: where I wanted to cut my arms off. I wanted
Speaker 1: I actually contemplated suicide. And that probably sounds really weird
Speaker 1: coming from me, because I'm not that I'm not emo,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't take this pain anymore. But as soon as you
Speaker 1: understand that what's happening to you is a challenge that
Speaker 1: you are karmically meant to experience and learn from and
Speaker 1: evolve to a higher level of consciousness, then you can
Speaker 1: look at that event, that experience as a lesson and
Speaker 1: not punishment.
Speaker 3: What pain at the time pushed you to that place
Speaker 3: of potentially wanting to take your own life.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't. I'm not
Speaker 1: in the blame game. That's the thing. I used to
Speaker 1: be that way, and I used to always want to
Speaker 1: seek a and you know, somebody did did me wrong,
Speaker 1: or I would pronounce loudly, oh well, you know, they'll
Speaker 1: get their own karma. Well whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And even knowing about karma doesn't mean you're a grown up,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you're not being a victim. But I
Speaker 1: would say probably one of the most painful moments in
Speaker 1: my life where I honestly couldn't see the forest through
Speaker 1: the trees for the trees, was when I went through
Speaker 1: a custody battle with my son and I you know,
Speaker 1: even though my marriage didn't work out. I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of people marriages don't work out. They marry their
Speaker 1: own people. They're not aligned, they're not meant for each other.
Speaker 1: Someone taking trying to take my child away from me
Speaker 1: was like they might as well just kill me. That's
Speaker 1: really how I was thinking. And I was on tour
Speaker 1: at the time, so I had to go on stage
Speaker 1: every night. I would just be lying on the floor
Speaker 1: of my dressing room sobbing. I really thought it was
Speaker 1: like it was the end of the world. I couldn't
Speaker 1: take it. I just couldn't take it. But thank god,
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way anymore. And I had to
Speaker 1: keep you know, studying, Like, continuing my studies and continuing
Speaker 1: on my spiritual path like helped me to understand that,
Speaker 1: you know, the enemy is within. You know, lots of
Speaker 1: people do lots of bad things and make a lot
Speaker 1: of bad choices, or make choices that cause other people pain,
Speaker 1: suffering or chaos or whatever. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I needed to learn some lessons. And I
Speaker 1: can see that with the benefit of hindsight, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't see it at the time. And also I was
Speaker 1: abandoned as a child by my own mother, and so
Speaker 1: losing a child like it was like life repeating itself.
Speaker 1: I couldn't accept it, and so it caused me a
Speaker 1: lot of suffering, and not being able to accept things
Speaker 1: causes all of us a lot of suffering. So yes,
Speaker 1: and now you know, I'm happy to say that I'm
Speaker 1: really good friends with my son. But I couldn't see
Speaker 1: it then. I really thought it was the end of
Speaker 1: the world. So, you know, thank god I had a
Speaker 1: spiritual life.
Speaker 3: Was the lesson radical acceptance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It took me a long time, actually several years.
Speaker 1: Radical acceptance is just accepting that what is happening to
Speaker 1: you is meant to happen to you, and that you're
Speaker 1: going to be okay. I mean, it's not an instant thing.
Speaker 1: There's no such thing as an instant thing. There's no
Speaker 1: way we're going to escape suffering. Even if we grow
Speaker 1: up with wealth privilege, and you know it didn't grow
Speaker 1: up in a small room. You know, our challenges and
Speaker 1: our suffering is going to come to us in a
Speaker 1: different way. I can give you another example of radical acceptance,
Speaker 1: and that is and this is something that my teacher
Speaker 1: shared with me about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1: I was rehearsing for my tour, a tour and I
Speaker 1: I got a bacterial infection and I one minute I
Speaker 1: was alive and dancing around, and the next minute I
Speaker 1: was in the ICU unit of a hospital. And I
Speaker 1: woke up from being unconscious for four days, I got
Speaker 1: out of the hospital. They took me off of you know,
Speaker 1: the ventil Later, I started to breathe on my own,
Speaker 1: and I had something that's something it's called sepsis, and
Speaker 1: it's like it can kill you and everybody recovers at
Speaker 1: a different rate, and so you know, I've always seen
Speaker 1: myself as superwoman. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, this is gonna I'm gonna kick this. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be good. I'm getting back into rehearsals. And
Speaker 1: I had no strength, I had no energy. I couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of bed, and I didn't know when it
Speaker 1: was going to end. And I used to talk to
Speaker 1: my teacher all the time, and he's like, the sooner
Speaker 1: you accept what's happening to you, and that you don't
Speaker 1: know when it's going to end, the sooner it's going
Speaker 1: to end. That made so much sense to me, and
Speaker 1: of course it did. But I mean I've heard some
Speaker 1: people never recover from it completely, never recover and have
Speaker 1: their like full health again. So again, it's the same idea,
Speaker 1: same concept, like if you sit around feeling sorry for yourself,
Speaker 1: oh well, woe is me? Or poor me? Or this
Speaker 1: is like I don't accept it, I will not accept it. Well,
Speaker 1: then you're just going to be swimming and suffering.
Speaker 3: You're reminding me of something I read in a it's
Speaker 3: not a spiritual book, but it has a similar message.
Speaker 3: It's called Culture Code by Daniel Coyle, and he talks
Speaker 3: in this book about how when soldiers were out a war,
Speaker 3: a lot of them wanted to believe they'd be back
Speaker 3: by Christmas, and there were the others that accepted that
Speaker 3: they had no idea when they were going to get home.
Speaker 3: And he talks about that those who accepted that they
Speaker 3: had no idea when they were going to get home
Speaker 3: were actually happier and were able to endure what they
Speaker 3: were going through a lot easier than those who hoped
Speaker 3: they'd get back on Christmas and then yeah, didn't.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like the Victor Frankel book.
Speaker 3: Yes and Such for me, Yeah, yeah, exactly, And it's
Speaker 3: such it's when when I hear it from those really
Speaker 3: extreme scenarios, you're like, wow, if Victor Frankel can think that,
Speaker 3: you know, in the experience that he had, you go okay, well,
Speaker 3: and Edith eager with the gift and you go wow,
Speaker 3: like yeah, if you can have that experience there, then
Speaker 3: then there must be some truth to that, because how
Speaker 3: could you accept that when it was when you were
Speaker 3: going through the worst. Yeah, yeah, it's really really tough
Speaker 3: going back to your experience of that, What would you say,
Speaker 3: because you mentioned karma there and this idea of choices
Speaker 3: we make and lessons we need to learn, and karma
Speaker 3: almost being this experience of learning the lessons. How do
Speaker 3: you see karma? How do you define karma from your
Speaker 3: learnings and studies? And let's stop there, and then I'll
Speaker 3: ask the second question after that.
Speaker 1: My personal understanding is that our souls choose the lives
Speaker 1: that we are born into the circumstances we are born into,
Speaker 1: that our souls are perfect, but then we're born into
Speaker 1: a life which is one challenge after an next after
Speaker 1: the next, and that our journey is to navigate and
Speaker 1: to see that each challenge that happens to us is
Speaker 1: our karmic destiny. It's energy, the law of its quantum physics,
Speaker 1: it's caused and effect. Whatever's happening to me that might
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable is obviously meant to happen to me to
Speaker 1: teach me a lesson. And if I don't learn that
Speaker 1: lesson at that point, it's going to come up again
Speaker 1: and again and again until I learn it and accept
Speaker 1: then it's a lesson, not a punishment. So that's how
Speaker 1: you get out of victim mentality.
Speaker 3: Also, what was the lesson that kept repeating for you
Speaker 3: and took you a bit longer than you would have
Speaker 3: liked to learn. What was the one that kept showing up?
Speaker 1: Betrayal or abandonment Sometimes they go hand in hand, but
Speaker 1: it really kept me like I saw a lot of
Speaker 1: people or I felt and experienced it. I was constantly
Speaker 1: being either abandoned or betrayed. So that kept me in
Speaker 1: a state sometimes off, often like feeling sorry for myself,
Speaker 1: stuck in a place of blaming others and not taking
Speaker 1: responsibilities for well, how did I bring this upon myself?
Speaker 1: Or why asking the question well, why is this happening
Speaker 1: to me? Over and over again? Obviously I need to
Speaker 1: learn something. I think everybody if they think about it,
Speaker 1: like what is the thing that always comes back to you?
Speaker 1: Or like for everybody it's something different. Obviously, I think
Speaker 1: the abandonment thing was the greatest lesson to that I
Speaker 1: could teach me that I could stop being destroyed by
Speaker 1: it or paralyzed by it. Was to think of all
Speaker 1: like how am I not showing up for other people?
Speaker 1: How am I abandoning other people?
Speaker 3: How am I abandoning myself?
Speaker 1: How long have I been not listening to myself, my
Speaker 1: inner truth, my inner voice. Yes, and we all say
Speaker 1: goodbye to our inner selves at some point or another
Speaker 1: until something wakes us up. Push has to come to
Speaker 1: shop for everybody, there's just no way to escape it.
Speaker 1: So that's something that as a concept that you have
Speaker 1: to get your head around. There's no running away from
Speaker 1: being tested. There's no running away from experiencing pain, suffering,
Speaker 1: whether it's physical or emotional. I mean, and that obviously
Speaker 1: that takes life experience and living and you know, going
Speaker 1: everything's going well for me, I'm so happy, everything's great.
Speaker 1: Oh no, this is like, this is a failure. People
Speaker 1: are writing negative shit about me, like you know, or
Speaker 1: this relationship ended, or this person cheated on me or this,
Speaker 1: you know, like all these things that happened to you.
Speaker 1: Rejection like and then you go and you go, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not happy. If you're going to go through life
Speaker 1: like being a slave to these like ups and downs,
Speaker 1: you're just going to be like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you can last, obviously, I mean it's obvious to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's obvious to you or anybody
Speaker 1: who's watching this, But I don't know how we can
Speaker 1: maintain our sanity, and especially now. I mean when people
Speaker 1: lived simpler lives and we didn't see what was going
Speaker 1: on in the world, and we didn't like we weren't
Speaker 1: so connected like we are because of technology and the
Speaker 1: end of the internet whatever, it's hard not to get
Speaker 1: like anxious or start blaming or taking sides or feeling
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I loved I loved what you said. This one
Speaker 3: line will stay with me for a long time. I
Speaker 3: really really thought it was beautiful. You said we all
Speaker 3: say goodbye to our in ourselves at some point, and
Speaker 3: that really landed because that's why it feels like we're
Speaker 3: coming home to ourselves when you and I think everyone
Speaker 3: who's listening and watching can if they've started their spiritual journey,
Speaker 3: they've started their reconnection journey. They know what that feeling's like,
Speaker 3: where it's like, yeah, wait, when I left myself and
Speaker 3: now I'm coming back to myself.
Speaker 1: Yes, I always say, what was I thinking before? I
Speaker 1: was thinking? Right, I don't even know, So I was
Speaker 1: just thinking about myself. But ironically and paradoxically, when you're
Speaker 1: just thinking about yourself and consume with yourself, you're actually
Speaker 1: not connected to yourself at all, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, how did it change now when you go through
Speaker 3: betrayal or you go through rejection, or any of those
Speaker 3: things that you talked about. How do you process it
Speaker 3: differently now with your spiritual practices than you did before.
Speaker 3: What's the different experience you have of it?
Speaker 1: Well? I spend less time feeling sorry for myself, being
Speaker 1: a victim blaming, and more time thinking, okay, why did
Speaker 1: this happen to me? What's the lesson? I mean, I
Speaker 1: go to that sooner well than I did before.
Speaker 3: What's the difference between self blame and accountability? Because I
Speaker 3: feel a lot of people fall into the trap of
Speaker 3: now you don't go and blame other people, but you
Speaker 3: blame yourself and you go, I messed up. I should
Speaker 3: have chosen right, I should have done that.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, self reflection and acknowledging and being accountable for
Speaker 1: your behavior. It's not the same as feeling guilty. That
Speaker 1: feeling guilty is just you're consumer with your.
Speaker 3: Ego flaming yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're not going to get anywhere with that.
Speaker 1: That just stops any kind of growth from happening.
Speaker 3: It's pretty amazing to say that you can speed up
Speaker 3: to that point of asking yourself that question of what
Speaker 3: can I learn from this? I mean, that's the ultimate question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And believe me, it's not something that stays with
Speaker 1: me all the time. So sometimes I forget and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm doing this again. I'm doing it again. I'm falling
Speaker 1: back into a familiar pattern. Yeah. But if you don't know,
Speaker 1: then you're not like it's important to know again, not
Speaker 1: beat up on yourself. Well, okay, I made a mistake.
Speaker 1: What can I learn from it? Swallow your pride? How
Speaker 1: your eager to shut up?
Speaker 3: Basically, you mentioned the word manifesting earlier and channeling and
Speaker 3: being a vessel, and I wanted to ask you because
Speaker 3: manifesting becomes very popular in the world today as a concept.
Speaker 3: It's at least out there people understand the word. Now.
Speaker 3: When people would look at your career, they would assume
Speaker 3: you've manifested incredible amounts of successful yourself, incredible amounts of
Speaker 3: wins and all the rest of it. Talk to us
Speaker 3: about your process of manifestation. What does it actually look like.
Speaker 1: If you're manifesting things and you're not conscious that it's
Speaker 1: a gift from the universe, from the life from the creator,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. If you're not aware
Speaker 1: of that and you're not conscious, then okay, you you
Speaker 1: invented something great, you created this thing that now is
Speaker 1: selling billions. But everything becomes finite when you're not manifesting
Speaker 1: with the with the consciousness that you are channeling something.
Speaker 1: You don't own it. So that's a big thing.
Speaker 3: Sure, So whatever.
Speaker 1: So if I have a successful show, if I have
Speaker 1: successful if anything happens to me successfully like it is
Speaker 1: perceived as a success in the outside world, I just say,
Speaker 1: you know, that's how blessed am I. I manifested that
Speaker 1: with the help of God. I didn't do it on
Speaker 1: my own. I do nothing on my own. And if
Speaker 1: if you think you're manifesting on your own in your
Speaker 1: you're like an ostrich with your head in the sand,
Speaker 1: and there will be an end to whatever you're manifesting.
Speaker 3: So if someone desires something, they've got to recognize that
Speaker 3: it's not their hand, it's something that they're willing to become.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, it requires work to be conscious, It requires
Speaker 1: work to see that you're channeling something and being a
Speaker 1: vessel for something. So you do have your part in it,
Speaker 1: but you're not on your own. That's the point.
Speaker 3: And a lot of us feel like, I'm going to
Speaker 3: do this. When I do this, I'll get this, and
Speaker 3: when I get this, then I will be this person that's.
Speaker 1: Desire for selfish reasons. You're you know, manifesting success is
Speaker 1: whenever you want something for the sake of sharing, when
Speaker 1: you want something just for yourself, Like I'll be happy
Speaker 1: when I have ten bugattis and a mansion in every
Speaker 1: major city and I'm the brand ambassador of Louis Vuitton.
Speaker 1: No sense to Louis Vuitton, just throwing that out there,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, Like those things like
Speaker 1: really make people happy, but it's short lived and sooner
Speaker 1: or later. Everybody comes to that realization anyways. It's just
Speaker 1: whether it's sooner or later. And these are the things.
Speaker 1: I talk about this in our studies. You know, let's
Speaker 1: get back to why I'm here, and my intention is
Speaker 1: to share my spiritual life with people. We talk about
Speaker 1: in our studies, we talk about manifesting, and we talk
Speaker 1: about being a channel, and you know, I share in
Speaker 1: one of the studies, I talk about writing my first song,
Speaker 1: for example, and how I taught myself how to play
Speaker 1: the drums, and I my friend, my boyfriend at the time,
Speaker 1: was in a band, and he taught me how to
Speaker 1: play guitar, like just simple chords, and when nobody was around,
Speaker 1: I would start playing with all the instruments and start
Speaker 1: without thinking, without any like I'm going to be this
Speaker 1: or I'm going to be that. Let me just I
Speaker 1: just sat down and wrote a song for the first time,
Speaker 1: and I was and I was very conscious at that
Speaker 1: moment after it happened, where did that come from? Well?
Speaker 1: How did that happen? I didn't grow up with musicians.
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with songwriters, no one. I didn't
Speaker 1: have a goal to be that. Where did it come from?
Speaker 1: And so when you start like opening your eyes to that,
Speaker 1: where did how did that happen? Where did that come from?
Speaker 1: Then you see you see the possibilities, You see the
Speaker 1: magic of the universe of life, and you see that
Speaker 1: you know that was that was a gift. Some angels
Speaker 1: showed up in my room and you know what am
Speaker 1: I going to do with that gift? So these moments
Speaker 1: happened to you throughout life. They happen to everybody, whether
Speaker 1: you're saving someone's life or you have this incredible idea
Speaker 1: for some life saving invention. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We're all blessed with those moments, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's really the important thing is to acknowledge where that
Speaker 1: came from. That's really manifesting.
Speaker 3: I love that. That's my favorite explanation and manifestation I've
Speaker 3: ever heard. Truly, it really is, because I think what
Speaker 3: often happens in substitute of what you said is we
Speaker 3: have an idea and then we try and manufacture that
Speaker 3: set of inputs and outputs again to get that again,
Speaker 3: and then it doesn't work, and then we're confused because like,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, last time I did this and did
Speaker 3: this and did this, then I got this, and now
Speaker 3: I'm trying to do it again, and then you get
Speaker 3: stuck because now you think you can't do it. But
Speaker 3: the reality is that's just a very functional way of
Speaker 3: looking at something that's far beyond input output and manufacturing.
Speaker 3: You can't manufacture to manifest it doesn't make sense. No, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I really really like that. I really really appreciate that definition,
Speaker 3: and I think that's going to help a lot of
Speaker 3: people because I think the way it's being talked about
Speaker 3: right now is just being be clear about your goals
Speaker 3: and be really clear about what you want. And I
Speaker 3: mean that's important too.
Speaker 1: Say out loud what you want out of life. That
Speaker 1: is important, but it's it's you're in a partnership that
Speaker 1: that's really what's important to remember. Yeah, and we become
Speaker 1: our environments as well, So we want to surround ourselves
Speaker 1: with people who with like minded individuals. And if you
Speaker 1: are around people who also are attaining to reach a
Speaker 1: higher level of consciousness or want to know the deeper
Speaker 1: meanings of life, or want to look inward and figure
Speaker 1: out why what their karmic destiny is, or even taken
Speaker 1: to consideration the idea of karma. I mean you need
Speaker 1: that also because if you don't have that support system,
Speaker 1: then you can also fall back into the trap of
Speaker 1: recreating formulas at work or trying to capture some magical
Speaker 1: moment and make it magic again. And that's just our
Speaker 1: ego taking over and telling.
Speaker 3: Us, you know, I did that, I did that, I
Speaker 3: can do it again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: One of my favorite ways of thinking about it, especially
Speaker 3: when you said it's a partnership, is when we look
Speaker 3: at the universe, everything's always said, so the sun's providing
Speaker 3: light and heat. Waters obviously giving us life, oxygen exists,
Speaker 3: trees are giving us shade and fruits and flowers, and
Speaker 3: so in order to really be in partnership with the universe,
Speaker 3: one has to want to serve because everything is designed
Speaker 3: to serve and give, and everything's designed to give and
Speaker 3: serve and provide. And so when we're not serving, we're
Speaker 3: actually acting against the universe because everything in the universe
Speaker 3: is designed simply to give. We're wired for generosity but
Speaker 3: educated for greed, and when that juxtaposition comes up against itself,
Speaker 3: it just creates friction. It's like, we all feel better
Speaker 3: when we do something for someone else. Absolutely, we all
Speaker 3: feel more joy when you take care of someone in need,
Speaker 3: more than if you did it for yourself. And the
Speaker 3: science and the research backs up as well. This isn't
Speaker 3: some woo woo spiritual idea.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely the truth.
Speaker 3: But it's amazing how our conditioning and education is so
Speaker 3: the oppos it that we will believe.
Speaker 1: That every man for himself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the statement. No, how much unconditioning does
Speaker 3: it take for us to lose the every man for
Speaker 3: himself mindset? What does that look like in your spiritual practice?
Speaker 1: And journey especially and not fall back into that trapuing
Speaker 1: to continue to have a spiritual life, spiritual practice, to study,
Speaker 1: to stop every you know, whether every day, once a
Speaker 1: week you people don't have some kind of ritualistic moment
Speaker 1: in their life, like I said, whether it's every day
Speaker 1: or a few times a week, that like, what's going
Speaker 1: to stop you? You know what I mean? You have
Speaker 1: to have that moment where you're thinking about what you've done,
Speaker 1: thinking about what you'd like to do, thinking about what
Speaker 1: you know. Have I capitalized on the opportunities that have
Speaker 1: come my way, not monetarily spiritually like what did I
Speaker 1: do to help someone? What have I done for others?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the only way you can be
Speaker 1: successful in life.
Speaker 3: What were you trying to channel when you were creating
Speaker 3: in your music and what were you trying to do
Speaker 3: to help people? What was well?
Speaker 1: In the beginning, I just wanted to be somebody. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be somebody like I wanted to have
Speaker 1: a voice. I wanted to make a difference in the world.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't clear about what that meant. Now I'm
Speaker 1: clear about what it means.
Speaker 3: What does it mean today that.
Speaker 1: Everything I say has weight and gravity, and that words
Speaker 1: are powerful and actions are powerful. And I always ask
Speaker 1: myself like why am I doing this? Why do I
Speaker 1: want to? Why is this song important to me? Why
Speaker 1: is this performance important to me? Why is this conversation
Speaker 1: we're having right now important to me? That's really the
Speaker 1: difference is like having intention and conscious we're really like
Speaker 1: I'm repeating myself over and over again. I can't think
Speaker 1: of other words that capture that, but self awareness. Self
Speaker 1: awareness doesn't really do it because self awareness kind of
Speaker 1: implies like selfishness, you know what I mean, a day
Speaker 1: at the spa, not that that's not something to be enjoyed.
Speaker 1: I could I could use sure my roof has been
Speaker 1: leaking for a month. Yeah, I want to go to
Speaker 1: the spot. That's okay, But that's not going to bring
Speaker 1: me lasting happiness.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's the reality of it, right, Like
Speaker 3: when you look at your experience, there's this everyone's experience
Speaker 3: is this paradox where it's like you have the highest
Speaker 3: highs the lowest lows. You have a life that of
Speaker 3: course you need everyday self care, but there's also what
Speaker 3: is lasting happiness and these bigger questions we all live
Speaker 3: in this world, but we're not of this world. It's
Speaker 3: it's almost like everything that it makes more sense to
Speaker 3: recognize it's both and as opposed to either.
Speaker 1: Raw well, you have have to live in the paradox. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like the greatest amount of light is where there's darkness,
Speaker 1: and you can reveal the most amount of light when
Speaker 1: you're in a dark room. You turn on the light.
Speaker 1: When you're in a room that's already light, what do
Speaker 1: you There's no effort made, So should we look for darkness?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Should be but no, But
Speaker 1: when we are in that space where we're feeling dark,
Speaker 1: where we're feeling an absence of light, an absence of hope,
Speaker 1: an absence of inspiration of vision, then you have to
Speaker 1: Those are the moments, the challenging moments, where you say,
Speaker 1: you have to say to yourself, this is my opportunity
Speaker 1: to bring light to a dark place. You know, spiritual
Speaker 1: wisdom is not helpful when everything's going your way. It's
Speaker 1: helpful when you're challenged and when you're happy. It's it's
Speaker 1: helpful to remember that at any given time, in any moment,
Speaker 1: it could be gone. So don't take it for granted.
Speaker 1: Have humility, be grateful when things are going your way,
Speaker 1: and when you're being tested, also be grateful. That's a
Speaker 1: hard one. That was a hard one for me. It
Speaker 1: still is, but I'm glad that I know what I know.
Speaker 3: One of the key aspects of this beautiful study series
Speaker 3: that you've created is we've talked about some of the
Speaker 3: themes today. We've talked about karma, there's manifestation, there's desire,
Speaker 3: there's all of these themes that exist, and one of
Speaker 3: the big ones that really stood out to me was forgiveness.
Speaker 3: Because you know, when I listened to you today and
Speaker 3: I even watched the studies that you created that I'm
Speaker 3: hoping our audience will go and watch and appreciate and
Speaker 3: learn from as well. You've conquered and continue to try
Speaker 3: to conquer some really difficult emotions, like really really difficult things.
Speaker 3: And I feel like forgiven for us in the world
Speaker 3: today is probably one of the hardest things for us.
Speaker 3: Whether we've been betrayed, whether we've been lied to, whether
Speaker 3: we've been exploited, whether we've been taken advantage of. And
Speaker 3: we always hear the age old phrase of forgiveness is
Speaker 3: for you, it's not for them. And you hear these things,
Speaker 3: but it's my wait who says that it's I mean,
Speaker 3: it's common like verbiage that exists in the world at
Speaker 3: least of this idea that you know, don't hold on
Speaker 3: to grudges.
Speaker 1: Well, you shouldn't, We shouldn't, and it is ultimately liberating
Speaker 1: for us to forgive. But obviously the world benefits from
Speaker 1: our empathy, our ability to forgive.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about that conditioning.
Speaker 1: I'm a fighter. You know, if somebody messes with me,
Speaker 1: they're going to get it.
Speaker 3: That's I've always been like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, but you know, when things happen to you and
Speaker 1: there's not a tangible enemy that you can like put
Speaker 1: your finger on, like what are you going to do?
Speaker 1: You absolutely into radical exceptions, but you know there's there
Speaker 1: are things, you know, there are things that have happened
Speaker 1: to me in my life that I just thought I
Speaker 1: will never I will never forgive this person. I will
Speaker 1: never Now, I just don't. I don't want to have
Speaker 1: those feelings anymore because they're really it's a prison, and
Speaker 1: it's poison to not be able to forgive and to
Speaker 1: live in a state of like holding a grudge or
Speaker 1: hating someone or wanting them to suffer. It's like a
Speaker 1: kind of poison. It's like a kind of cancer. And
Speaker 1: that's why it's important to find a way to forgive,
Speaker 1: even people that you perceive as your biggest enemies for
Speaker 1: a really long time. It was my brother who died recently,
Speaker 1: because I think the hardest ones are the people that
Speaker 1: you feel like you're the like, they're you're the closest to,
Speaker 1: they're your greatest ally, and they turn on you. The
Speaker 1: people that hurt you the most are the people that
Speaker 1: you love the most. And when life doesn't go the
Speaker 1: way that you expected it to go, that you suddenly
Speaker 1: that this pain is unbearable and that you think what's
Speaker 1: going to save you is to think vengeful thoughts or
Speaker 1: to never forgive, like that's going to give you some
Speaker 1: kind of power, magical power. It doesn't just weighs you
Speaker 1: down and eats away at you and is poisonous. So
Speaker 1: having to forgive my brother, knowing that I had to
Speaker 1: forgive my brother, it was you know, it's like your
Speaker 1: ego dances around it like yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get
Speaker 1: to it. I'll get to calling him up or talking
Speaker 1: to him or being his friend or helping him. But
Speaker 1: eventually I did. And I know I'm being mysterious. If
Speaker 1: someone you love deeply betrays you and does something that
Speaker 1: shows that they have no consciousness in that moment that
Speaker 1: they made that choice to do that, it's really it's
Speaker 1: a bitter pill for me to swallow. I can't speak
Speaker 1: for everyone, but I imagine that lots of people feel
Speaker 1: this way. For my brother, I didn't speak to him
Speaker 1: for you know, for years, years and years, and it
Speaker 1: was him being ill and reaching out to me and
Speaker 1: saying I need your help, and me having that moment
Speaker 1: like am I going to help my enemy? You know?
Speaker 3: That's how it fell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just did, and I ended up and
Speaker 1: I felt so relieved, and it was such a load
Speaker 1: off my back, such a weight that was removed, baggage
Speaker 1: that I could put down to finally be able to
Speaker 1: be in a room with him and holding his hand
Speaker 1: even if he was dying, and saying I love you
Speaker 1: and I forgive you. That was really important. And that
Speaker 1: was another thing that I realized when I woke up
Speaker 1: in the hospital, forgiveness. That word came to my mind,
Speaker 1: like I have to forgive people because I was there,
Speaker 1: I was almost there on the other side, and I
Speaker 1: had a conscious moment and my mother appeared to me
Speaker 1: and she said, do you want to come with me?
Speaker 1: And I said no. My assistant was in the room
Speaker 1: with me, but I was still unconscious, but she heard
Speaker 1: me say no. And then when I did eventually wake up,
Speaker 1: I realized that the no was about me needing to
Speaker 1: forgive and make good with people that I still held
Speaker 1: grudges against. So and interestingly well, I wrote a song
Speaker 1: about him. I'm working on new music and I wrote
Speaker 1: a song called Fragile, which is about my brother. And
Speaker 1: then I wrote another song, and this is again just channeling.
Speaker 1: It's called forgive Yourself, but the repeating phrase the chorus
Speaker 1: of the song is if you can't forgive me, forgive
Speaker 1: your which is something we all have to do. We
Speaker 1: have to forgive others, but we also have to figure
Speaker 1: forgive ourselves and stop beating up on ourselves about things
Speaker 1: choices we've made in the past that haven't worked out
Speaker 1: for ourselves or other people. Taking responsibility again, we come
Speaker 1: back to that concept also, or that idea of being
Speaker 1: accountable and being responsible. Taking responsibility as a very big
Speaker 1: lesson that I learned studying Cabala is that I am responsible.
Speaker 1: I am responsible and every and I believe in personal accountability,
Speaker 1: personal karma, and I believe in global karma. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of the things that are happening in the world
Speaker 1: is as a result of our selfishness as people, as humans,
Speaker 1: as a society, we are responsible. You can't just sit
Speaker 1: in your room or your house or the safety of
Speaker 1: your home and go people are you know, they deserve
Speaker 1: it whatever to be aware and conscious that you're contributed
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: if we have collectively unconsciously evolved to a higher state
Speaker 1: of consciousness, we can change the world. But that also
Speaker 1: sounds like a cliche, but make the world a better place.
Speaker 1: Tip the balance, so to speak. But that's why I'm here,
Speaker 1: and that's why I'm talking to you, and that's why
Speaker 1: I made these This is why I documented my studies
Speaker 1: with my teacher, because I really believe that this wisdom
Speaker 1: can help other people in a very practical way, not
Speaker 1: in an esthetic way. And that's why I'm here.
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that and that journey you went
Speaker 3: on of forgiveness, because yeah, for you to be that
Speaker 3: honest and vulnerable and explain that that was someone that
Speaker 3: you felt was an enemy at that point, but the
Speaker 3: relief you felt from helping someone, I mean, that's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm thinking about the people that are listening
Speaker 3: and watching right now and the experience that they're having
Speaker 3: where they're really struggling to forgive themselves or forgive someone else,
Speaker 3: and looking at it from the point of view of
Speaker 3: what would that look like if you never got that opportunity.
Speaker 3: I know so many people who regret the last thing
Speaker 3: they said to their parents, or the last thing they
Speaker 3: said to a loved one, or whoever it may be,
Speaker 3: and it seems that vengeance and spite doesn't seem to
Speaker 3: heal the soul.
Speaker 1: Well, harsh words and harsh behavior is energy, and you
Speaker 1: can never take it back, but you can change your destiny,
Speaker 1: your karmic destiny, and one of those ways is to
Speaker 1: forgive others and forgive yourself.
Speaker 3: Oh No, You've been so gracious with your time, your energy,
Speaker 3: and vulnerability today. I feel like I've learned so much
Speaker 3: about you. I've very grateful to get and you said
Speaker 3: you repeated yourself, but I'd honestly say that I enjoyed
Speaker 3: that because it shows to me the good training is
Speaker 3: good repetition, And so if you have the same, if
Speaker 3: you have a similar mindset towards something, it's not in
Speaker 3: the material world.
Speaker 1: You only get good at something if you do it
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the material world we know that, but we
Speaker 3: often look at repeating as I have heard that before.
Speaker 3: I know that. But actually the thing we think we
Speaker 3: know the most is the thing we need to hear
Speaker 3: more often. And when I think about the detailed the vaders,
Speaker 3: you're the soul, not the body, is the most repeated lesson.
Speaker 3: It's the first lesson, but the most repeating. You're the soul,
Speaker 3: your consciousness, not the body. Yes, is repeated more than
Speaker 3: any other teaching, even though it's the most obvious, and
Speaker 3: it's the first teaching.
Speaker 1: Very obvious. But so look how attached we are psicicy.
Speaker 3: Exactly, so you need to repeat it. But I was
Speaker 3: thinking that this might be a perfect time because you've
Speaker 3: been referencing in this conversation. You've referenced your teachers so
Speaker 3: many times, and we're fortunate enough today to actually have
Speaker 3: the opportunity to invite him onto the show. And if
Speaker 3: you're open to it, I think this may be there
Speaker 3: would love shoure do it? Yeah, do it perfect a Don.
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that we actually get to speak to you.
Speaker 3: Madonna's been talking about you the whole interview, and I
Speaker 3: want our audience to know. Of course, you were sitting
Speaker 3: in on our conversation as well, and so you have
Speaker 3: context of everything we talked about, and of course you
Speaker 3: have twenty nine years of context of everything Madonna shared
Speaker 3: with us over the last couple of hours. But thank
Speaker 3: you so much for doing this, and thank you for
Speaker 3: being here.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having the honor of being here and
Speaker 4: being part of really sharing these teachings.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I was sharing with you earlier that my
Speaker 3: vision when I started my platform was to make wisdom
Speaker 3: go viral, especially ancient wisdom, and so this is truly
Speaker 3: my heart's work, and so thank you for the opportunity back.
Speaker 3: I want to dive in because we've heard about my
Speaker 3: daughter's journey and her journey to Kabbalah, but I would
Speaker 3: love to hear how you came to it, because I'm
Speaker 3: assuming everyone has their own spiritual journey of awakening or connecting,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure many of our listeners today are either
Speaker 3: on their spiritual journey want to start one, but I'd
Speaker 3: love to hear how did you come to this practice yourself.
Speaker 4: I started in a young age. I grew up in
Speaker 4: Israel in a non religious family, and from a young
Speaker 4: age I was asking questions about life. I think it
Speaker 4: came from the depth of my soul. It's beyond because
Speaker 4: someone taught me or anything. And when I was seventeen,
Speaker 4: my brother introduced me to Kabbala. I went to the
Speaker 4: Kabbala Center and I met my teacher for many years,
Speaker 4: the rough Berg, And after hearing one hour of a
Speaker 4: lesson of how the universe began and why are we here,
Speaker 4: it resonated in such a deep level. Literally I couldn't
Speaker 4: sleep for three nights and I felt I'm home. I
Speaker 4: felt I'm reconnecting to really my purpose, what life is about.
Speaker 4: And it took few years, and by the age of
Speaker 4: twenty one, I knew that's my mission in life. So basically,
Speaker 4: in the last forty years, that's what I'm doing all
Speaker 4: day long, student and a teacher. In the last forty years.
Speaker 4: That's beautiful. Like I was saying earlier, I felt like
Speaker 4: I came to my work when I was eighteen, and
Speaker 4: so I'm a couple of decades behind you in my journey,
Speaker 4: but that idea of discovering something earlier and it resonating
Speaker 4: so strongly with your heart and comming in your life
Speaker 4: to it. What was it like when you first met Madonna?
Speaker 4: What was that first interaction like?
Speaker 3: From your from your vantages, from your perspective, tell us about.
Speaker 4: I don't think she knows. But when Madonna's friend, which
Speaker 4: studied with me, called me and told me, I'm bringing
Speaker 4: Madonna to a class tonight forty people, so told her,
Speaker 4: you know, I never saw a picture of Madonna. I
Speaker 4: heard her name, so yeah, so don't worry, She'll sit
Speaker 4: in the back with me. So that's actually the first time.
Speaker 3: So you had no idea. You looked like no idea.
Speaker 4: I did have a clue those days.
Speaker 3: I was pretty NiFe you you were planned in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was totally innision and I didn't I heard
Speaker 4: the name Madonna, but didn't actually recognized.
Speaker 3: And then did you connect that evening? Was that well?
Speaker 4: That evening actually was said, Yeah, we sat in the
Speaker 4: conference room because we said it invents that will meet
Speaker 4: and Madonna was very suspicious of me.
Speaker 3: I can relate to that.
Speaker 4: What's the agenda here? What's happening. But listen, she had
Speaker 4: many students. But one of the amazing qualities of Madonna
Speaker 4: is perseverance, tenacities in the ups and downs. And trust me,
Speaker 4: I've experienced and seen a lot of ups and downs.
Speaker 4: But I always say, when you constantly nurturing your soul,
Speaker 4: your soul will guide you. Our soul is the part
Speaker 4: within us which knows all the all the answers that
Speaker 4: connected to the higher force twenty four to seven. It
Speaker 4: is our body, our logic, our ego, the layers in
Speaker 4: our hearts that's blocking us to see and to feel
Speaker 4: the truth. When you just agree with some spiritual concept
Speaker 4: and once in a while learning so wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 4: It's not enough. You need to nurture the soul that
Speaker 4: that light of the soul and that wisdom of the
Speaker 4: soul and that intuition that comes from the soul will
Speaker 4: channel back its energy to your life. Because the source
Speaker 4: of all protection and the source of all true joy
Speaker 4: come from the soul. So she has that an amazing
Speaker 4: and amazing attribute of tenacity and persecuting, not giving up
Speaker 4: no matter what.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I liked going there is because
Speaker 1: it's like it was the only place where people didn't
Speaker 1: bother me about who I was. I literally sat in
Speaker 1: the back of a room with folding chairs. As I said,
Speaker 1: there was mostly men, and no one said a word
Speaker 1: to me, No one bothered me, no one said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, aren't you ma Donna? Can I have your
Speaker 1: autograph for like whatever? Like I just felt like I
Speaker 1: could be anonymous.
Speaker 3: There was that the first time you'd experienced that a
Speaker 3: new career that well.
Speaker 1: For a long time. Yeah, so with a large group
Speaker 1: of people and strangers. So I liked the anonymity of
Speaker 1: just being a student and going there and learning and
Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with my career or work
Speaker 1: or yeah, so that it was inviting. So I wanted
Speaker 1: to go back. And then I would always bring my
Speaker 1: notebook and take notes. And I have a zillion journals
Speaker 1: from all of my classes and studies. And I loved
Speaker 1: to be a student and learn, and I was learning
Speaker 1: so much, And I also was so what I loved
Speaker 1: so much about Kabal and studying Cabal, it was how
Speaker 1: in tune it was with science and quantum physics. And
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't just just because you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like everything made sense to me, and I
Speaker 1: could see how you know, even the idea of you know,
Speaker 1: how the world was created, or the beginning of life,
Speaker 1: the idea of you know, Genesis, for instance, or the
Speaker 1: idea of Adam and Eve. I learned that nothing in
Speaker 1: life can be taken literally. You have to study the
Speaker 1: deeper meanings of everything. And that is true for a
Speaker 1: spiritual practice as well as science, as well as everything
Speaker 1: we do in life. You can't judge a book by
Speaker 1: its cover. You can't take things literally. And I was like, oh, Like,
Speaker 1: when I was growing up as a Catholic, I would
Speaker 1: always say to my father, well, why do we have
Speaker 1: to you know, why do we have to address this
Speaker 1: to church? Why does the you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: wear a hat, cavery your hat what like? There was
Speaker 1: no explanation for anything, and that really bugged me. So
Speaker 1: if you can't find a reason, if you can't explain
Speaker 1: something to me, I'm not interested. So he did explain
Speaker 1: things to me, and they all everything made sense. Nothing
Speaker 1: was silly. What we do study when we study Kabala
Speaker 1: is the we study the Zohar, and in within the
Speaker 1: Zohar is everything about life, about medicine, about science, about nature,
Speaker 1: about relationships, and that was really comforting to me to see.
Speaker 1: That's what helped me see life is not a series
Speaker 1: of random events.
Speaker 3: And you mentioned I mean as I'm listening to Madonna
Speaker 3: speak about this as well. You mentioned obviously you know
Speaker 3: this tradition is four thousand years old. How first book
Speaker 3: the difference?
Speaker 4: But it was before, it was before.
Speaker 3: Right, right ya? So it spread put into writing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it was put into the technology books four thousand years ago.
Speaker 3: How did it come to be? Like, tell us a
Speaker 3: bit about the history of it so that we get
Speaker 3: some context of the tradition.
Speaker 4: Actually, the first book that was ever written in Kabbalah
Speaker 4: was three pages long. It's called the Book of Formation
Speaker 4: that was written by Love the Patriot, and it's reading
Speaker 4: in such a coded way and will not get any
Speaker 4: understand the secret of life and the wise ofe pages
Speaker 4: three pages. Yes, it's a lot of commentary, but yes,
Speaker 4: three pages. And then the main book of Kabbalah, after
Speaker 4: many kabalists teaching from one to another, was the Book
Speaker 4: of the Zoror or the Book of Splendor, that was
Speaker 4: revealed two thousand years ago. And the zor is actually
Speaker 4: decdified Torah codified the Bible and helping us to understand
Speaker 4: the Bible is not a book of stories or laws
Speaker 4: or religiosity or dogma. It's the secrets of life are
Speaker 4: hidden there, and the so haard the main book of
Speaker 4: which we have it today translated to English and to
Speaker 4: other languages. It's actually helping us to understand that everything
Speaker 4: in this world has a purpose and a reason. And
Speaker 4: if asking what really kabbale is about, Kabbala is about
Speaker 4: understanding the wise of life of the universe and why
Speaker 4: I'm here and what is my purpose? And why are
Speaker 4: we struggling? And what is the journey of our soul
Speaker 4: and where we came from? And if the Creator is
Speaker 4: such an infinite force of good and love out come,
Speaker 4: we all struggling either with pain, with doubts, with negativity,
Speaker 4: with selfishness. So that is the main book of Cabala,
Speaker 4: and of course was many Kabbalists throughout his story since then,
Speaker 4: that was we're able to bring Kabbalah down to us.
Speaker 4: And in nineteen seventy that's when the Cabbala Center started,
Speaker 4: which is opening the gates and the doors of Kabbala
Speaker 4: to all mankind.
Speaker 3: You're talking about the whys of life and that's the
Speaker 3: questions and the Sea King. Do you remember one of
Speaker 3: the first questions that Madonna enquired about our one of
Speaker 3: the first things that she was grappling with. What do
Speaker 3: you remember?
Speaker 4: I don't even remember, So I just I don't remember
Speaker 4: in what specific context.
Speaker 1: Also, I didn't study with him like this, Like I
Speaker 1: was just a student in the back of a class.
Speaker 3: It took a while got it.
Speaker 1: For us to like have one on one conversations.
Speaker 4: It took a year or two until we started, right
Speaker 4: to meet regularly once a week, right as well? Yeah,
Speaker 4: well so, but I think one of the one of
Speaker 4: the things that I remember speaking to Madonna, and this
Speaker 4: is a struggles that everybody have. So we get there's
Speaker 4: a higher power, call it God, call it the light,
Speaker 4: call it inself, endless energy of love, of giving, that
Speaker 4: is beyond time and space, and it's within us. Okay,
Speaker 4: So why does evil forget about outside even inside? Why
Speaker 4: do we have constantly destructive forces within each one of us?
Speaker 4: There's a constant chatter you wake up and gravity pulls
Speaker 4: you down. Why a lot of people study today how
Speaker 4: to overcome that negative force, But why there is a
Speaker 4: negative force within us? So one of the one of
Speaker 4: the basic understanding we're talking about it, it's as understanding
Speaker 4: that the greatest gift, the greatest gift the Creator gave us,
Speaker 4: is the opportunity to overcome the opponent within, because when
Speaker 4: you overcome, you become co creator. The reason why we
Speaker 4: do experience enough peace, enough light, enough fulfillment, It's very simple,
Speaker 4: Like trucks, like you want to experience the light, be
Speaker 4: like the light, be a being of sharing. But part
Speaker 4: of what the light is about, it's a creator. So
Speaker 4: the gift to overcome negativity within is the gift of
Speaker 4: being the creator. Imagine you were given everything. You're bond
Speaker 4: with talents, you're bonn with love, You're bone with just
Speaker 4: helping people all day long. That's your natural tendency. No
Speaker 4: negative force try to pull you down, no selfishness. Do
Speaker 4: you think you really will be able to actually experience
Speaker 4: and appreciate the force of the Creator, the force of love,
Speaker 4: the force of light, the force of true fulfillment. The
Speaker 4: answer is no. So while sometime we all upset, why
Speaker 4: I have this particular negative voice in my mind, and
Speaker 4: why do I have to struggle with abandonmenttissue? And why
Speaker 4: do I have to struggle with moments of sadness, at
Speaker 4: the moment you realize one second, this is the greatest
Speaker 4: gift to create. To give you doesn't mean you're right
Speaker 4: away or how to overcome it. Maybe we'll share some
Speaker 4: tools how to do it. But the fact that you
Speaker 4: accept the greatest gift in this world is the gift
Speaker 4: of overcoming. And it doesn't mean it has to be
Speaker 4: with suffering. Actually it doesn't mean. But the fact that
Speaker 4: you accept that opponent within you, it's actually was created
Speaker 4: by the light, by the universe, by the force of
Speaker 4: good to help us to grow. Imagine you bring spoke
Speaker 4: about soccer a little bit before. Imagine imagine you bring
Speaker 4: your kid to play soccer and you bring them in
Speaker 4: front of a goal and with the ball and say,
Speaker 4: now score. Will it be fun?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 4: In its an opponent in either goalie, he needs to
Speaker 4: overcome simpthing. Without overcoming anything, will never have a sense
Speaker 4: of true fulfillment. And we're not talking about overcoming the
Speaker 4: external challenges which is part of life, but recognizing the
Speaker 4: unique challenges each one of us needs to overcome. We
Speaker 4: call it karma, we call it cabalistically tikoun. Each one
Speaker 4: of us have own unique areas of transformation, and everything
Speaker 4: that life presenting to us is to present these opportunities
Speaker 4: of overcoming and as a result, allow my soul to shine,
Speaker 4: my gifts to shine, my true purpose to shine.
Speaker 3: That's beautiful. I love hearing that. It's it's so interesting
Speaker 3: to hear how that which we believe to be the
Speaker 3: obstacle is actually the path. And it reminds me of
Speaker 3: and I know, Madonna, you studied the Geeta as well.
Speaker 3: Origins dilemma in the first chapter. So origins a warrior.
Speaker 3: He's an archer, to be specific. And he's in the
Speaker 3: middle of a battlefield and on one side is his brothers,
Speaker 3: and on the other side is his cousins, so it's
Speaker 3: all family, the opposing side and his side. And he's
Speaker 3: on his chariot in the middle of the battlefield, and
Speaker 3: he's talking to God and God is serving him as
Speaker 3: his charioteer. And what he's expressing to God is his doubt,
Speaker 3: his anxiety, and his insecurity. And that's how it begins.
Speaker 3: It begins from a place of doubt, stress, fear, pressure,
Speaker 3: which is what engages him to ask the question. And
Speaker 3: it's so interesting that we often think that doubt and
Speaker 3: anxiety and the problem, but often they are the seed
Speaker 3: of where the question comes from and why we even
Speaker 3: look up or look around and question what's happening in
Speaker 3: our lives. And it's almost like doubt is the direction
Speaker 3: and anxiety is beautiful, right, Like there's that's it's It's
Speaker 3: similar as I'm.
Speaker 1: Something else to wake you up, whether you need some
Speaker 1: kind of pressure, whether you're standing in front of a
Speaker 1: goal or you're, you know, trying to win a war.
Speaker 3: Well, your pressure was becoming a mom.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's yes, it was, you know, and coming to
Speaker 1: terms with you know is also you know, is my
Speaker 1: life is my life as as in my careers, you know,
Speaker 1: as an entertainer is going to change? Is it kind
Speaker 1: of is going to be over? Like I said, I
Speaker 1: associate motherhood with death, so it's like, what's going to
Speaker 1: happen to me? Like I needed to be rooted somewhere
Speaker 1: and I needed to have certainty. But you can't have
Speaker 1: certainty unless you start with doubt.
Speaker 4: Exactly like she mentioned before. We Donna mentioned before that
Speaker 4: the greatest light hiding beyond the greatest perception of darkness.
Speaker 4: So if darkness manifests it as fear or the unknown
Speaker 4: doubt or the uncertainty or the doubt or the weakness.
Speaker 4: So one of the practices is actually ability to pause
Speaker 4: and allow yourself to feel it for a second, because
Speaker 4: there's a great light hidden there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you help? What do you remember helping
Speaker 3: or what advice would you have given to Madonna at
Speaker 3: that time to help her connect the dots. I think
Speaker 3: the phrase that she's repeated a few times in this
Speaker 3: conversation of seeing motherhood as death is such a strong statement,
Speaker 3: but it makes so much sense from your experience when
Speaker 3: you connect the dots. How would you encourage How did
Speaker 3: you encourage her to reflect on that?
Speaker 4: So we didn't necessarily speak about that concept, but about
Speaker 4: other challenges and fears and perceived.
Speaker 1: Pain, abandonment. We talked about that a lot.
Speaker 4: Abandonment absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think, well, so you don't want to love or
Speaker 1: be in love or be attached, feel attachment because then
Speaker 1: you could get hurt. So that was a big issue
Speaker 1: for me, Like I'm good on my own, because a
Speaker 1: warrior surviving, like, don't with me, I don't need help,
Speaker 1: I don't need any help, Like I'm good, but then
Speaker 1: you need help and then it's hard, like to say
Speaker 1: it and say I I I'm doubting myself. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I don't feel it like a warrior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah, it's it's it's argentous dilemma. He's the
Speaker 3: greatest archer of his time, yet his bow is slipping
Speaker 3: from his hands because he's like, I can't shoot an
Speaker 3: arrow and he's the best. And that feeling of I
Speaker 3: think we all have that, Like you so beautifully talked
Speaker 3: about Aytown, this idea that we've been given so many gifts,
Speaker 3: with so many talents, and I think a lot of
Speaker 3: our audience today in the world people have forgotten the
Speaker 3: gifts that they have, and then we often get into
Speaker 3: this feeling of low self esteem. You know, we don't
Speaker 3: feel worthy, we don't feel we have a purpose. And
Speaker 3: I feel like that's what the world is today. A
Speaker 3: lot of people who are listening and watching today probably
Speaker 3: feel like they don't have something to offer, or maybe
Speaker 3: they know kind of what they have to offer, but
Speaker 3: they don't feel confident enough. What would your teachings, in
Speaker 3: some of your guidance say to those kind of people
Speaker 3: who are sitting there thinking, I kind of you know,
Speaker 3: I don't have that confidence in myself I don't I
Speaker 3: don't really know what I'm going to do, and they're
Speaker 3: feeling stuck.
Speaker 4: Thing like Madonna mentioned, she felt weak, she didn't felt
Speaker 4: her personality of being a warrior. So there's a big
Speaker 4: difference between personality and soul strength.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about the difference. Yeah, what's the difference
Speaker 3: between personality.
Speaker 4: So Madonna always been a warrior, that's her personality that
Speaker 4: she grew, she did, that's part of her gifts. But
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily mean that she'll channel a warrior's attributes
Speaker 4: in a soulful way. But we identify with that. I'm
Speaker 4: a warrior. When i'm a warrior, I'm strong when i'm strong,
Speaker 4: I'm happy when i'm strong, I'm meaningful when i'm strong.
Speaker 4: I met her, and when suddenly you go through a
Speaker 4: situation that threatened that ability to be a warrior, to
Speaker 4: be strong, to be independent, suddenly you feel fear and emptiness.
Speaker 4: And what I would recommend, what I would share with Madonna,
Speaker 4: would recommend anybody, in order to find your strength, start
Speaker 4: with the challenges of today. It's not about finding my
Speaker 4: purpose in the future. And let's break it down to
Speaker 4: simple such a.
Speaker 3: Great points, such a great point it's brilliant.
Speaker 4: Simple four steps. How do I handle a challenge today?
Speaker 3: So step number one, I just want to before you
Speaker 3: driving the steps die is beautiful. I absolutely love that mindset.
Speaker 3: I think it's such a great hope everyone who's listening
Speaker 3: to watching right now. It's such great advice because we're
Speaker 3: so fixated on finding, discovering, looking for the answer at
Speaker 3: some point in the future, and it just keeps feeling
Speaker 3: postponed and further away. And I love what you're saying
Speaker 3: is that the challenge in front of you right now
Speaker 3: is the exactly It's beautiful.
Speaker 4: How do you connect to the light, with the energy,
Speaker 4: with your soul, with the blessing that available in this
Speaker 4: very moment?
Speaker 3: Good?
Speaker 4: Sorry, Yeah, And that will lead to other blessings that
Speaker 4: will open doors that will attract clarity. We face the
Speaker 4: challenge all of us. It can be challenge at work,
Speaker 4: it can be challenge at all. It can be just
Speaker 4: I start to compare myself to someone else and it
Speaker 4: triggers lack all of us. Doesn't matter how spiritual we are,
Speaker 4: and doesn't matter how successful are guilty, We'll have at
Speaker 4: least a hundred times a day lack will be triggered
Speaker 4: fear today even today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: So the comparison game at least hundred times a day.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the social media for really to make
Speaker 1: you feel bad about yourself unless you recognize that that
Speaker 1: is an illusion, that's not reality or doll an opportunity, right,
Speaker 1: an opportunity for me to not engage.
Speaker 4: Exactly and to actually find light in the moment.
Speaker 1: We just actually to conquer your fear in that moment,
Speaker 1: or to conquer your repetitive behavior of oh my god,
Speaker 1: I wish I had that. Oh my god, I wish
Speaker 1: I was that person. Oh my god, I wish that
Speaker 1: my life was like that person's life, Like if only
Speaker 1: I had dot dot dot. You know, it's like to
Speaker 1: stop yourself in that moment and conquer that moment, which
Speaker 1: is I'm good enough, I am everything that I need.
Speaker 1: I am I I I embody it. I just have
Speaker 1: to reveal it. But that's a that's a really hard one,
Speaker 1: I think, especially for women, you know, because we are
Speaker 1: a conditioned to like want to aspire to be this
Speaker 1: beautiful or this great of a mother or you know,
Speaker 1: this grade of a homemaker or this grade of a
Speaker 1: you know, it's a test every day to not judge
Speaker 1: yourself and to not like feel like you're lacking in
Speaker 1: some way, like you say, and when I say my prayers,
Speaker 1: part of my prayer is that I rise above my
Speaker 1: limitations and that I rise above my nature, and that
Speaker 1: I don't get sucked into the vortex of lack which
Speaker 1: can come in so many different forms and tune into you.
Speaker 1: Just you really have to be consciously like going like
Speaker 1: your head is a radio dial like going like like like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not that's not me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's constant. It's a constant conversation you're having with yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So true. So that's a really reliable problem.
Speaker 1: And it requires work, and it requires paying attention and
Speaker 1: being aware. And we also get caught up in wh
Speaker 1: We live in a world is distraction, right, so easy
Speaker 1: to get distracted. It doesn't mean you're not supposed to
Speaker 1: have fun, Like right now, I really want to have fun,
Speaker 1: but not that you're not fun.
Speaker 3: Oh we're not having fun. I think we're having fun.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just we live in a world of distraction,
Speaker 1: so it's so easy to get caught pulled off the
Speaker 1: track of you know what am I doing? What am
Speaker 1: I doing right now? What am I doing to myself?
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm I'm already there. I got caught, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean by the seed of doubt and
Speaker 1: self judgment and comparing and I'm not good enough. Therefore
Speaker 1: I'm going to be in a bad mood. I'm going
Speaker 1: to shout at my child or you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like takes so many different forms, and like the
Speaker 1: greatest thing in the world is to be able to
Speaker 1: stop yourself before that happens. But it does require constant vigilance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely amazing to hear you say that you still
Speaker 3: feel that way. Yeah, that's helpful and validating for all.
Speaker 4: Of that's part of the path of transformation.
Speaker 3: Sorry, back to the tool.
Speaker 4: Yes, so really because without what is lack is the
Speaker 4: illusion that there's no force of good, you're not protected,
Speaker 4: you're not loved, you alone, you're said, you're disconnected, and
Speaker 4: the practice to overcome that, not just in meditation throughout
Speaker 4: the day, which is very powerful. Step number one, as
Speaker 4: you face the challenge before you get as the reactive
Speaker 4: process of lack and negative thoughts, tell yourself say these words, pause,
Speaker 4: what an opportunity I don't know why. It's an opportunity,
Speaker 4: but I know every moment of flack it's a gift
Speaker 4: from the universe to help me to reveal greater light
Speaker 4: and a blessing in my life. Step number two, don't
Speaker 4: fix it yet. Embrace what is. Embrace the difficult feelings,
Speaker 4: because in order to find light in darkness, you need
Speaker 4: to be there with courage a little bit in darkness.
Speaker 4: We want to fix right away. We want to get
Speaker 4: rid of what bothers us. We want to get rid
Speaker 4: of the fear. We want to get rid of the insecurities.
Speaker 4: We can stand it. We don't like the discomfort, And
Speaker 4: how do we want to get rid of it? By
Speaker 4: being reactive, by blaming, by judging ourselves, by jumping after
Speaker 4: opportunity for insectifications, by being self destructive. Pause, Embrace It's okay,
Speaker 4: And part of the reason of study is developing trust.
Speaker 4: It's okay. Embrace first what is, and then go to
Speaker 4: the next level.
Speaker 3: And when you say embrace, do you mean to meet
Speaker 3: it positively? In that? To me as it is to
Speaker 3: allow it? Yeah, to allow it because it's in it.
Speaker 4: Allow it, not because I want to stay there. Because
Speaker 4: that's part of the process of revealing the great light
Speaker 4: of my soul.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it almost feels that. Often what happens is because
Speaker 3: we've tried to go to the light so much. Sorry,
Speaker 3: it often feels that because we've tried to go to
Speaker 3: the light so much, we don't know how to sit
Speaker 3: in the darkness. We want to go to the goods
Speaker 3: so quickly, we don't know how to sit in the bad.
Speaker 4: That's when you develop strength. And there's a concept cableist discomfort. Yeah,
Speaker 4: there's a concept cabalist call certainty beyond logic, explaining I'm
Speaker 4: trusting even though I don't feel it, and it doesn't
Speaker 4: make sense that actually I'm led towards anything positive, but
Speaker 4: I'm trusting beyond logic that this experience is for my
Speaker 4: best even if I'm guilty and feeling horrible about mistakes
Speaker 4: that I've done.
Speaker 3: It's okay.
Speaker 4: You're going to get to the part of learning the lesson.
Speaker 4: Don't fix it, don't erase it. Certainty beyond logic, so
Speaker 4: the part of embrace it, allow and then you're ready
Speaker 4: to the next step, which is telling yourself because our
Speaker 4: belief system tells us it's a moment of darkness, there's
Speaker 4: no light here, there's no good.
Speaker 3: Here, there's no there's no love here, there's no light here.
Speaker 4: So you need to tell yourself all the light that
Speaker 4: I need is within me. Now, just tell yourself doesn't
Speaker 4: make sense. Logic doesn't agree, the heart doesn't agree. But
Speaker 4: that's the job of this world to allow the thoughts,
Speaker 4: the stream of energy that come from the soul to
Speaker 4: influence gradually the mind and the heart and the body.
Speaker 4: And again and again again, tell yourself, all the light
Speaker 4: I need is within me in mouth, I'm certain beyond
Speaker 4: logic it's for my best. And then show me the
Speaker 4: way the light the universe. What's the when you feel
Speaker 4: less reactive? Because usually when we experience lack, we reactive.
Speaker 4: We want to get rid of the luck, we want
Speaker 4: to get rid of the fact. And that's what's caused,
Speaker 4: I think, what's caused evil behavior between people not knowing
Speaker 4: how to handle moments of luck. That's where it's art.
Speaker 4: So forget about others. Let's start with ourselves. And sometimes
Speaker 4: we'll fix the lack because someone will tell us, whow
Speaker 4: you're an amazing person and love you so much, and
Speaker 4: how we feel good? And I fixed it. I forgot
Speaker 4: about my lack. I forgot about my insecurity. Actually, I
Speaker 4: am amazing are you? By developing true muscles and skills
Speaker 4: to find the light within or you want to be
Speaker 4: attached to the external energy that will fix you will
Speaker 4: never work. And of course when you in that place,
Speaker 4: actions of giving, even if it doesn't make sense calling someone,
Speaker 4: adding value to someone, being kind to someone also help
Speaker 4: you to shift your energy towards the vibration of the soul,
Speaker 4: towards the vibration of the light. But we all need
Speaker 4: to go to this. Yeah, you know, some people would
Speaker 4: call it mental illness, but we all have that mental struggle.
Speaker 4: We all have that mental struggle in feelings and in
Speaker 4: our minds. So it's a it's actually it's a it's
Speaker 4: a daily perhaps transform, it's a daily practice and when
Speaker 4: you have the courage and you study enough depth that
Speaker 4: support the understanding that the light is never gone. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's my perception I see the light. I don't see
Speaker 4: the light that is causing me to feel the light
Speaker 4: is disappear. And I'm small and I'm not enough, and
Speaker 4: I'm not capable and I'm not confident.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that really resonates very strongly because I feel like
Speaker 3: when you're first reading this new script, you don't believe it.
Speaker 3: And that's why, as you're saying, the regular study is
Speaker 3: almost like reading a script consistently, a new script because
Speaker 3: already reading the old script of I'm not good enough,
Speaker 3: I'm not capable enough, I belong whatever it may be.
Speaker 3: But the online that I really loved that resonated with me,
Speaker 3: which I want to ask you about, Madonna, is the
Speaker 3: trust beyond logic, because I think that's the phase that
Speaker 3: most of us give up because we are living in
Speaker 3: a logical, functional, material world where if a train's not coming,
Speaker 3: you would leave this station. But here the trust beyond
Speaker 3: logic is now, I'm still going to wait here, or
Speaker 3: I'm going to act in a certain way, or I'm
Speaker 3: going to change these behaviors. Madonna, when did you have
Speaker 3: to practice trust beyond logic in your life? The most
Speaker 3: where you I.
Speaker 1: Mean, every challenge I've ever had, once I became aware
Speaker 1: that I had the power to do that, And like
Speaker 1: making art, creation is there's nothing to do with being logical,
Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with the logical part of
Speaker 1: your brain. You can't measure it, you can't predict it,
Speaker 1: you can't control it. You have to allow it. So
Speaker 1: I would say that Challenger is like happening on a
Speaker 1: daily basis, Like even now, like I told you, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a pipe that bursts in the middle of my
Speaker 1: house and it's like creating havoc and all I was
Speaker 1: so excited to come to London, to be in my
Speaker 1: house in London, and everything's gone wrong, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: So there has to be a reason for it. I
Speaker 1: can't just sit here and like be angry or upset,
Speaker 1: like there's a illogical wisdom to everything that's happening. If
Speaker 1: that's not being attached to material things, then that could
Speaker 1: be an option. If that's because all these things are broken,
Speaker 1: I need to spend more time doing something else it's
Speaker 1: more important, then that's you know what I mean. There's
Speaker 1: always a reason for something so and you can't logically
Speaker 1: figure it out. Like I wish that I could have
Speaker 1: seen ten years I had that my son was going
Speaker 1: to be my best friend. I was trying to make
Speaker 1: logical sense of everything, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: I wish that I knew then what I know now.
Speaker 1: So there's always Then there's big struggles in little struggles,
Speaker 1: like you can't logically explain things like especially like I
Speaker 1: always use art as a as an example, because I
Speaker 1: can tell you that ninety nine percent of the time
Speaker 1: when I'm writing lyrics or singing a melody, I'm not
Speaker 1: thinking about it logic. If I think it's gone or
Speaker 1: it doesn't come to me, I.
Speaker 3: Want to ask you a ton based on that. As
Speaker 3: Madonna said, she waited ten years to see that experience
Speaker 3: of you know, her son becoming her best friend. I
Speaker 3: think a lot of people wonder how is the reason
Speaker 3: revealed or received? How do we know? Because like you said,
Speaker 3: it's trust beyond logic, and logic is like if I
Speaker 3: do this, then this will happen. And this is like
Speaker 3: my pipe's a burst. If I call the guy, he'll
Speaker 3: come and fix it, right, Like, that's the kind of
Speaker 3: way our brain works when we're trusting beyond logic. It
Speaker 3: could take ten years to receive a reason, It could
Speaker 3: take twenty years. It could take fifty years to really
Speaker 3: have a revelation on something. How is it often revealed
Speaker 3: or received when it's not based on logic? So that
Speaker 3: makes sense, Yes, it makes sense.
Speaker 4: What you're asking. Number one is when things don't go
Speaker 4: your way, and of course, sometimes we need to do
Speaker 4: practical action to make things better and to fix things.
Speaker 4: But sometimes it's out of our control. Things don't go
Speaker 4: our way, like the situation with the experience of Madonna
Speaker 4: shared so certainty be on logic is that the struggle
Speaker 4: that I'm going through is for my best, but it
Speaker 4: doesn't allow me to be self destructive because if I
Speaker 4: want to speed up the process that I see the
Speaker 4: light at the end of the tunnel, I need to
Speaker 4: strengthen and we need friends, you need teachings, you need
Speaker 4: the right support to actually trust the universe loves you
Speaker 4: and it's for the good as difficult it is. But
Speaker 4: then you need to ask a second question when you're ready,
Speaker 4: when you're not as reactive, what's my lesson? Why is
Speaker 4: it in my movie? And sometimes the answer is simple.
Speaker 4: Every time we experience rejection, what is rejection? Things don't
Speaker 4: go our way? It purifies us because our mind and
Speaker 4: our heart it's so attached to happiness, is when this
Speaker 4: will happen, which is not necessarily the big picture happiness
Speaker 4: what really good for me? Yeah, So when you actually
Speaker 4: realize that actually that's a purification process and you open
Speaker 4: and you allow it to happen because all of us
Speaker 4: are not aligned with the true desire of the universe.
Speaker 4: If it would be aligned, we would be joyful every
Speaker 4: second and we will be giving unconditionally every second, and
Speaker 4: we'll think all day long, how can I add value
Speaker 4: to others? And because we are not there, and that's
Speaker 4: part of the gift of life gradual transformation. We need
Speaker 4: moments of rejection. But when you question, you said, where
Speaker 4: am I to attached? What's my lesson? What do I
Speaker 4: need to let go? That will support to speed up
Speaker 4: the process of seeing the light. Because every fruit in
Speaker 4: order to become sweet and ripe is first hour. There's
Speaker 4: a process. Actually, the bottomist would say that more sour
Speaker 4: the fruit in the process sweeter at the end. It's
Speaker 4: so easy to throw the sour fruit and to say
Speaker 4: it's a bad fruit. But if you're able to allow
Speaker 4: this process, and you need a lot of spiritual strength,
Speaker 4: because culture, society, our body, our mind is prone to
Speaker 4: react and to decide it's bad. That constant conversation in
Speaker 4: our mind, it's good, it's bad, I'm good, I'm bad.
Speaker 4: It's that reactive conversation we have within us that actually
Speaker 4: prolong in the process. So actually faster. We're embracing certainty,
Speaker 4: biologic fasting. We're asking questions because at the beginning you
Speaker 4: cannot ask because you're in pain, so you just try
Speaker 4: to at least trust and embrace and embrace and beg
Speaker 4: something and asking. But when you're ready to ask, well,
Speaker 4: what's my lessons? Because very often we are so touched.
Speaker 4: We spoke about forgiveness to what's wrong with them, and
Speaker 4: we forget that the true purpose of life is my
Speaker 4: own transformation and elevation. While I'm interacting with other people,
Speaker 4: So when the conversation is no longer about that good,
Speaker 4: that bad? How did they do it? And you bring
Speaker 4: it back to you, how can I elevate? How can
Speaker 4: I become better? How can I transform? Between me and
Speaker 4: my soul, between me and my perfected self? When you
Speaker 4: that's when you inject the energy, then things the light
Speaker 4: will be shown faster.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the question. That's the accelerator that we want.
Speaker 3: We want the pain to go away quicker that question is,
Speaker 3: and sitting with that question exactly is the thing that
Speaker 3: actually speeds it up. What are you trying to work
Speaker 3: on right now, Madonna? That you're working on in your
Speaker 3: studies I know you get together regularly. People are going
Speaker 3: to be able to watch your studies as well that
Speaker 3: you do together. What's something that you're trying to work
Speaker 3: on right now that seems very fresh as a challenge,
Speaker 3: something to overcome.
Speaker 1: As you said, the lessons that I learn and study
Speaker 1: are more applicable to things that are challenging me on
Speaker 1: a regular basis, which would be you know, my children,
Speaker 1: They're always challenging me in one way or another. And
Speaker 1: that's a bit like such a big lesson for me
Speaker 1: to let go of expectations and stop trying to control
Speaker 1: the outcome and over worrying. And you know, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: some days I wake up on this, I'm just relieved
Speaker 1: that they're all okay, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: I always say to people when you're when you have
Speaker 1: that many kids, you're you're you're not really a parent,
Speaker 1: You're a manager, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeh.
Speaker 4: And by the way, she has amazing kids and spiritual kids,
Speaker 4: and because of her tremendous effort to infuse not just
Speaker 4: with the teachings, with their behavior consciousness. Sometimes you don't
Speaker 4: see it right away, but we see kid of the
Speaker 4: kids that actually they're coming around in the own unique way.
Speaker 1: So and also infuriating me what kind of things. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have to stop thinking that, you know, my way
Speaker 1: of doing things are my way of approaching life, or
Speaker 1: my way of being an artist is going to be
Speaker 1: somebody else's my kids way of doing it. Everybody has
Speaker 1: their own journey and it's taken me a long time
Speaker 1: to accept that.
Speaker 4: And to let go of control.
Speaker 3: M Why is that so hard as a parent, because
Speaker 3: I feel like so many parents would be able to
Speaker 3: relate to that right now where we subconsciously or consciously
Speaker 3: are projecting living through our children, wanting them to, you know.
Speaker 1: Well, either to be successful or in not like, not
Speaker 1: even in a not like. I want them to be
Speaker 1: rich and famous. I just want them to be happy.
Speaker 1: I want them to be authentic. I want them to
Speaker 1: not compare the themselves to other people, not worry about
Speaker 1: what people think of them, because they're my children. Like
Speaker 1: we're you know, fearing judgment, letting that go, helping them
Speaker 1: to see their own unique gifts. It's a constant battle
Speaker 1: because also you don't want to come off as somebody
Speaker 1: who's trying to control the situation all the time. Either
Speaker 1: my weekly studies with Aton, or my daily prayers or
Speaker 1: whatever are often about you know, I don't want my
Speaker 1: children to do specific things. I want them to realize
Speaker 1: what they were put on this earth to do. I
Speaker 1: want them to elevate to their highest level of consciousness
Speaker 1: and how can I help that? That's it. But it's
Speaker 1: still hard not to be bothered by things things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a very relatable challenge for parents. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a real one. It's And I guess when you
Speaker 3: ask that question, then what is the lesson in this
Speaker 3: applying a TONS process? What what do you often come
Speaker 3: up with?
Speaker 1: Trying to control all the outcomes in life is and
Speaker 1: not getting the outcome you wanted is what makes you suffer.
Speaker 1: So if that lesson keeps coming back to me, then
Speaker 1: I guess I haven't learned it yet. And children are
Speaker 1: a perfect teacher for that, because they're never going to
Speaker 1: do what you want them to do way that you
Speaker 1: want them to do it. You know, just get them
Speaker 1: from here to there without hurting themselves or anybody else,
Speaker 1: you know what I.
Speaker 3: Mean, because they too have to overcome exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I did. I grew up with very
Speaker 1: little and that's so I have a huge desire, and
Speaker 1: then of course you give your children all the things
Speaker 1: you wanted to have, and then you realize that's killing
Speaker 1: their desire, and so you know, it's like it's just
Speaker 1: you're just constantly going, oh shit, oh shit, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: not okay, not just be counterintuitive. Just say nothing. That's
Speaker 1: that's a big one for me. Say nothing. But I'm
Speaker 1: getting good at it. I'm just really getting good at it.
Speaker 3: No. I appreciate you walkings through that though process because
Speaker 3: I think you've summed it up. That's exactly what we
Speaker 3: want to do. We want to take away someone's pain
Speaker 3: or the pain we thought they were going to have
Speaker 3: because of the pain we had, and then you provide
Speaker 3: something only to create a new pain and for them
Speaker 3: to never have the pain that you had, but have
Speaker 3: a completely different version of it. We do it for
Speaker 3: everyone we love. And I was going to ask you
Speaker 3: you like, what do you do when you don't like
Speaker 3: the answer? That question is so important, like what is
Speaker 3: the lesson I need to learn? But a lot of
Speaker 3: us subconsciously may not like the answer we gain. That's
Speaker 3: where we have to keep learning. Again, what happens when
Speaker 3: you don't like the truth that you're experiencing.
Speaker 4: So I think part of true spiritual transformation is craving truth.
Speaker 4: Is I want to know, really what's my lesson? Because
Speaker 4: what's the other option? More pain until I'm going to
Speaker 4: learn the lesson. So the reason why we're not listening
Speaker 4: to the voice that tell me let go of control?
Speaker 4: Or for kids, one of the biggest mistakes parents do
Speaker 4: is over giving to kids, which in Kubli scabilistic terminology
Speaker 4: we call it broad of shame. When you give to
Speaker 4: someone something without working, without earning, you're actually hurting them.
Speaker 4: And the parent might know I'm overgiving and it's not
Speaker 4: healthy for them, but I feel guilty to say no.
Speaker 1: And I'll be here if I say yes exactly.
Speaker 4: So here is the test guilty of saying no versus
Speaker 4: long term pain for the kid and for yourself. So
Speaker 4: actually pause and ask that question. That will help you
Speaker 4: to get closer to the truth and be less in
Speaker 4: denial and a fork short term long term saying yes
Speaker 4: just to fix the pain, to give them what they want,
Speaker 4: to let them play with the phone, or say no
Speaker 4: and it's difficult and they feel bad and the blaming you,
Speaker 4: but you're doing it from place of love, because yeah,
Speaker 4: because what's driving us true desire to share in a
Speaker 4: long term.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: If that's my true and that's the truth, Am I
Speaker 4: really coming from true desire to share for a long
Speaker 4: term share and not just temporary fix.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And when I'm coming from that place only blessings, you're
Speaker 4: planting a seed of light, a seed of blessing, a
Speaker 4: seed of miracles. When you're coming from another place pretending
Speaker 4: to be good or nice or kind only because you
Speaker 4: cannot handle the temporary pain, you're planting a seed of chaos,
Speaker 4: which cares also as intelligent to teach you lessons but
Speaker 4: in a longer path.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I can relate to that as a
Speaker 3: kid because I'm not a parent. But it was almost
Speaker 3: like during your team you just think everything your parents
Speaker 3: say is wrong. And then in my twenties I was
Speaker 3: like so grateful for the discipline and the rules and
Speaker 3: the you know, I was only allowed to play video
Speaker 3: games for like X amount of time or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, everything my parents did, I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, wow, there was actually a lot of
Speaker 3: good in it. But during my teenage years that you know,
Speaker 3: I obviously didn't agree with anything they said, and there's
Speaker 3: such a reality to that feeling of the long term
Speaker 3: point that you're making. The long term you realize, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm glad you actually didn't just let me eat rubbish,
Speaker 3: or I'm really glad you didn't just let me waste
Speaker 3: hours playing video games. I'm really glad that you didn't
Speaker 3: do X, Y Z or whatever it may be. And
Speaker 3: so it's hard though, because the parent or the person.
Speaker 3: This could be romance, it could be in any relationship.
Speaker 3: You've got to be unpopular in the moment. You have
Speaker 3: to put us at your ego and you have to.
Speaker 4: Go through that disconference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which applies at work, it applies everywhere anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially in the culture today when everything can be
Speaker 4: so instant app and ordering food and getting what you
Speaker 4: want and watching any program and in your phone. So
Speaker 4: that instant culture preventing a child or an individual to
Speaker 4: go through a real process of going through this comfort
Speaker 4: or earning the light as we're going saying caballistically, and
Speaker 4: people don't understand they can be bright, how come I'm depressed?
Speaker 4: Depression very often it's a consequence of instant gratification, not
Speaker 4: willing to go through difficult process.
Speaker 3: So hard, so hard. We don't want to go through
Speaker 3: the difficult process, and we don't want anyone we love
Speaker 3: to go through a difficult process. Although that is that
Speaker 3: is the any process that's going to benefit.
Speaker 1: Us, well, well we're going to anyway, so.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I have one last question to ask both of you.
Speaker 3: What is your soul's purpose? Why do you think you're here?
Speaker 3: And what personally was the becoming or the overcoming that
Speaker 3: you went through to really receive that soul's purpose that
Speaker 3: you're living by. What was it that birth that idea
Speaker 3: within you.
Speaker 1: My soul's purpose is to reveal light in the world
Speaker 1: through whatever I do, whatever that's being a parent or
Speaker 1: being an artist, being a friend, being a leader. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we are here to receive for the sake of sharing.
Speaker 1: So I have a huge desire. I have many desires.
Speaker 1: This is not a relief system or philosophy that's about
Speaker 1: no offense, being a monk and going up in the
Speaker 1: mountains and meditating for hours. I want it all, but
Speaker 1: I want it for the sake of sharing, not to
Speaker 1: keep it for myself. Hey wants more followers on Instagram.
Speaker 4: The personal relationship between me and the light between me
Speaker 4: and the Creator. I know that I don't anything less
Speaker 4: than connecting while I'm in this physical world to the
Speaker 4: soul that was given to me. And it means total transformation,
Speaker 4: total desire to receive for the sake of sharing, certainty
Speaker 4: beyond logic until it becomes second agor that's at a
Speaker 4: personal level. But one of the ways to giv it
Speaker 4: is to connect with our purpose of sharing. So I
Speaker 4: know in my gut, in my soul, and it was
Speaker 4: beyond knowing, it was beyond logic, that that's what I
Speaker 4: came to do in this world, which is to spread
Speaker 4: to be a teacher for the teachings of Cabbalah while
Speaker 4: I'm studying. One of them is about being too perfectionist spiritually,
Speaker 4: you know, taking spiritual lesson to an imbalanced place. Something
Speaker 4: is wrong with me. So and I know as long
Speaker 4: as we're in this world and if we're truly not
Speaker 4: settling for lesson, that's a message for everybody. I want
Speaker 4: to say, never settle for less wherever you are. This
Speaker 4: is just the beginning comparing to your next level potential.
Speaker 4: So those challenges were necessary to help me to evolve
Speaker 4: to where I'm at today. And of course this is
Speaker 4: just the beginning.
Speaker 3: What's that? Thank you so much for your time and energy. Again,
Speaker 3: learn so much from both of you today, and I
Speaker 3: really can't wait for people to watch the studies. I
Speaker 3: hope that it gives spiritual seekers a opportunity to ask
Speaker 3: better questions, deeper questions, and begins their quest for overcoming
Speaker 3: and becoming whatever their soul's purpose truly is. And I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful that you're both living yours truly and I'm
Speaker 3: really again thankful for the opportunity to have learned so
Speaker 3: much from both of you today. Thank you so much,
Speaker 3: oh honor, thank you too much.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
Speaker 3: you're trying to build more, I need you to listen
Speaker 3: to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
Speaker 3: into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
Speaker 3: that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
Speaker 3: what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
Speaker 3: and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.
Speaker 2: Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,
Speaker 2: Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
Speaker 2: of the value. That's the success comes when you say
Speaker 2: I like this and not for other people to see it,