1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Ol is not here today, 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: but we'll be returning shortly. They called me Ben. We're 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission control decond. 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: Stute listeners, you may hear a bit of something almost 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: like oceanic tides on my end of the recording today. 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: That is because it is a wonderfully emo day here 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. You could look outside and swear you 14 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: were in c attle. As a result, the street near 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: me has turned into a river, so always Ponts is 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: always a river when it rains bad. So it's it's 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: kind of soothing, you know, and maybe that's something people 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: need nowadays. I think just occasionally moments of self reflection, quietness, 19 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: getting away from the screens, something soothing. And it's good 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: that we're starting off that way because for a lot 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: of sports fans in the audience today, this episode is 22 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: going to piss you off. And you know about some 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: of it, but you may not know about all of it. Uh, Matt, 24 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Mr Frederick, would you consider yourself a fan of sports? 25 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: All the sports? Huge? Everyone face painting every day pretty 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: much because there's so many sports that I gotta paint 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: my face for boxing, chess, you know, that's a real 28 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: thing where people alternate chess and boxing all the sports 29 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 1: without exception. So I only like boxing before they started 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: wearing gloves, you know, where it was pretty much focused 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: on body lows. You couldn't really punch the face because 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: it would break your your fist. That's that's really where 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: my boxing excitement lies. And I can see when you 34 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: square up your old school you know, definitely your you 35 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: cover your your chest right because you don't want to 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: get livershot break those ribs exactly. Well, that's the thing, 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: you know, whether or not you are a die hard 38 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: sports fan in general, whether or not you like our 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: good pal Max, have one specific sport you like. Max 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: Williams is a baseball fan. Uh. You have definitely heard 41 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: about something called the World Cup. As we record and 42 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: as this episode releases, the twenty twenty two World Cup 43 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: is reaching a culmination in the Middle Eastern nation of 44 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: cutter or Qatar. Uh. It's this World Cup is the 45 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: top competition for the most popular sport on the planet. 46 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: Americans call it soccer literally, really everyone else calls it 47 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: some version of football. Uh. And that's that's where we 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: start today. We're gonna talk about sports, but we're quickly 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: going to go to some strange, sinister places today, as 50 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: the world waits to see which country will win the Cup, 51 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: we're here to explore the stuff FIFA doesn't want you 52 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: to know. Here are the facts. Yes, as we record today, 53 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: Japan and Croatia are battling it out in Brazil and 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: South Korea are also engaged in Mortal Kombat a ka 55 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: football ump up on a pump, pump up on up 56 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: on up. Yes. Yes, And so let us just talk 57 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: about the World Cup in general. Let's let's set the table, 58 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: shall we. It's this thing called FIFA that maybe you 59 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: only know because you're a gamer and you like video 60 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: games and so do your friends, and you play a 61 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: game called FIFA and it has to do with soccer. 62 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: They're also known as the or actually they're known for 63 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: real as the Federation International. Now their football or football 64 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: association also is on there. Yeah, they're very old. I 65 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: was not aware of this for for some time, but FIFA, 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: being founded on May oh four four is one of 67 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: the world's biggest non governmental organizations or in g os. 68 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: It's also one of the oldest ones that still exist today. 69 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: And if you look at the history, it makes sense 70 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: somebody needed to organize this stuff. At the dawn of 71 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, seven different national associations, associations that governed 72 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: football in their own countries, came together did a vultron thing, 73 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: assembled their avengers and so Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland. 74 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: They all said, Okay, we're going to make an even 75 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: bigger band, and we're gonna make a supergroup, and we're 76 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: going to do some important things. We're gonna like uniform 77 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: We're gonna uniformize these things. If I if I could 78 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: style on American English for a second, Yeah, it'll be 79 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: like the Olympics. It'll be worldwide, but it will only 80 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: be for football, and we'll control I like how you 81 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: said the dawn of the century, because the way I 82 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: see this instead of d A W N. I I 83 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: read it d O N of the twentieth century because 84 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: it is this massive organization and somebody's got to lead 85 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: it and be the dawn of FIFA. What a great setup. 86 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: And I like that organized crime reference to you'll see why, folks. So, 87 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: no matter how you feel about FIFA today, if you 88 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: think they're the worst thing ever, or you're such a 89 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: fan boy that you sing FIFA Las Vegas to yourself 90 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: in the shower, the point is the organization had to exist. 91 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: Something like this would have arisen due to necessity. You know, 92 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: as as the twentieth centuries going on, more and more 93 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: international games are being played, right, people are absolute fanatics 94 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: for their chosen team, right, and they said, okay, we 95 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: need somebody to organize everything. We need some group making 96 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: sure that all competitions have the same rules, have the 97 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: same processes in place. We need to do stuff like 98 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: agree that if a player is suspended, that suspension is 99 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: recognized by everybody, right, so another country doesn't just go 100 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 1: snap this person up, you know. And then of course 101 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: their main thing was to ensure the games were fair. 102 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: That is um still officially a big concern. Objectively, this 103 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: was a fantastic idea. And if you look at the 104 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: dawn d o n of FIFA, you've got to look 105 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: at the very first president. Who wasn't you know, criminal kingpin? 106 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: He was He was just he was a French guy. 107 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: Is a very smart French guy. Yes, named Bob Robert Queren. 108 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: He ran things from oh four, nineteen o four to 109 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: nineteen o six. And uh, there have been a lot 110 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: of people who have held that title the president of FIFA, 111 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of people have held it for a 112 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: long time. Some people have only held it for a 113 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: wee little bit of time, like Rodolf the seed Dreyers, 114 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: Sidre Sildreers, seal Dreer's so how you would say it, 115 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: Rodolf Seldreers of Germany, This guy only served for a year. 116 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: He got in and then he went, oh all those 117 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: doors opened that were you know, secret before becoming president 118 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: and he went, nope, how about I'm just kidding. We 119 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: don't know what happened. He just had one heck of 120 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: a year. But because of the way the terms for 121 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: the president work, it is possible to serve for much longer, 122 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: like dr Aling out of Brazil served for more than 123 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: two decades from seventy four all the way up until Yeah. Yeah, 124 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: he put his time and he's got his stripes. UH. 125 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: The current president there's a guy named Giotni Infantino out 126 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: of Switzerland. He took office in sixteen. Presidents are elected 127 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: for a four year term. UH, and now they can 128 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, they can have they can be re elected 129 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: multiple times. So FIFA experiences a lot of ups and 130 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: downs over the decades. UH is similar to the modern Olympics. Right. 131 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: This has struggled through world wars, numerous economic downturns. Let 132 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: us not forget the world is ending for someone somewhere 133 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: every single day. So they almost collapsed in eighteen. There's 134 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: some pretty inspiring stories about the people who kept it going, 135 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: but really the love of the sport across across human experience, 136 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: across so many demographics kept the World Cup alive and 137 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: the real like the official inaugural World Cup by FIFA 138 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: was actually not held until nineteen thirty. It was in 139 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: Uruguay from July nineteen thirty. UH. Uruguay paid out the 140 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: nose for this. By the way they paid UH, they 141 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: paid all the travel expenses. They had to split ticket 142 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: sales with FIFA. It's the money was already getting crazy. 143 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: I think about the tourism dollars been sure, yes, sure, 144 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: the tourism dollars. And hey, maybe all the people who 145 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: work in the service industry or at those hotels and restaurants, 146 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: maybe their wages increased to spoiler, we'll see. But the 147 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: thing and the thing is it wasn't it wasn't exactly simulcast, right, 148 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: They didn't get to see it the world over. You 149 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: had to be there to watch the World Cup in Yeah, yeah, 150 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: you absolutely had to be there. And now the idea 151 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: of marketing, right, the idea of broadcast rights, all that 152 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: stuff is another huge revenue stream because obviously, folks, way 153 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: more people are watching this remotely than kind of afford 154 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: to actually go across the planet to watch these games 155 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: in person. And some people, as we'll see uh this year, 156 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: even if they could afford to go, they were a 157 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: little too concerned maybe about their personal safety to make 158 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: the journey. So, yeah, the competition only expands over time. 159 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: The popularity of the World Cup only grows because it's 160 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: an awesome thing, especially if you like football, And as 161 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: it grew, the money grew as well. The money metastasized 162 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: today of all sports fans globally have their finger on 163 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: the pulse of the World Cup. They know what's going 164 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: to happen. They know it's happening every four years. They're 165 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: stoked about it. Billions of yours are watching, which is 166 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: nuts when you think about it. There are eight billion 167 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: people in the world, and a huge percentage of them 168 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: time zones be damned, are watching this stuff live across 169 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of nations. You know, even some of 170 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: the U n doesn't recognize snap. That's true, you know been. 171 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: I wonder if those five percent of people that don't 172 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: know what the World Cup is. I wonder if there's 173 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: a higher likelihood that they are Americans, simply because soccer 174 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: in this country isn't as popular as it is in 175 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: almost every other country on the planet. I wonder if, 176 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: like most of that five percent is somewhere in the US. 177 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: But surely they'd be at least aware of it, because otherwise, 178 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: what what would the phrase World Cup mean to you? 179 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: Or five percent of Americans going I've got my own cups. 180 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: I don't need to share one with the world. That's 181 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: a stupid idea. You'd never be able to build a 182 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: big enough cup. They also don't have friends, and they 183 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: don't have a television or internet because and they've never 184 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: played a video game or heard of them or the 185 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: margin of error is five percent, so like here, So 186 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: here's the issue. When you get this many people involved 187 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: in literally anything, because of the way people work, opportunities 188 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: for corruption are going to grow exponentially. And that's why, 189 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, nobody is really surprised that FIFA has become 190 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: the subject of numerous allegations over the decades. Uh And 191 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: in fact, you know, under the auspices of previous FIFA presidents, 192 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: it's been accepted as an open secret that there was 193 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: at least some degree of corruption. And when we ask 194 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: about conspiracies, not theories, but actual conspiracies, corruption and crime 195 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to FIFA, you know, well we have 196 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: to Well, the answer, simply put is, if you ask 197 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: how much corruption exists in FIFA, the answer is way 198 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: more than you might think, way, way way more. Ted right, yes, way, 199 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy, all right, honestly, it's Uh, 200 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: we spent some time going into the weeds of the 201 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: Byzantine process for getting your country to host the World Cup. 202 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: We're not going to go all the way into it. 203 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: You can definitely you may already know the ins and 204 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: outs at least the official explanations um you could probably make. 205 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are multiple fantastic sports podcast probably on 206 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: our network that talk about the FIFA selection process. But 207 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: it's the thing is, it's a huge win for that 208 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: host competition. It's not hyperbole to say it's as nostigious 209 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: as hosting the Olympic Games. In fact, it's a bigger 210 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: deal than hosting the Olympics. Sorry, IOC well, and the 211 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: way to imagine it for me is if you somehow 212 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: convince the International Olympic Committee to get the Olympics in 213 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: your country, Uh, somehow you do it, and it's not easy. 214 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: It's usually about what kind of infrastructure do you currently 215 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: have and what new stuff are you gonna build for it? 216 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: And it's not dissimilar to what happens with countries working 217 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: with FIFA to get the World Cup in their town 218 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: or in their city or their country, because it's not 219 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: cheap to either build a brand new stadium or maybe 220 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: two stadiums, or to retrofit your old stadium so that 221 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: it can you know, have that many people inside of 222 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: it to even host a single game, let alone the 223 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: entire tournament. Um, it is very expensive to get the 224 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: World Cup of the Olympics in your country. Yeah, I 225 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: mean why stop at stadiums. Some countries have built cities 226 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: for the World Cup, right. Uh that's where that's where 227 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: cutter comes in. Uh, you know, you make a great 228 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: point about the infrastructure. I would also add that part 229 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: of the argument to win hosting rights for the Olympics 230 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: or the World Cup goes down to the question of 231 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: what sort of message do we as FIFA want to 232 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: give to the world. Right. There's a lot of uh, 233 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: geopolitical stuff at play here, a lot of tremendous opportunity 234 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: for good and bad things. Uh. Yeah, So you nailed 235 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: it though, because most countries just they're not going to 236 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: have that. They're not gonna say, hey, we got eight 237 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: stadiums at an empty, brand new city as new car smell. 238 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: You know, all the hotels you could possibly need, Like 239 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: we're talking a hundred forty empty hotels ready to rock. 240 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: It's really be glad you guys came along because you know, 241 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: we were sort of freestyling this one. You know, we 242 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: build cities the way people play jazz. Right, just we 243 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: just we get a general theme and then I don't 244 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: figure itself out. But that's exactly Uh what happened when 245 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the most recent country to host has built a city. Uh. 246 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: And it's costs two hundred billion dollars US or the equivalent. Uh. 247 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: And this is not this spending tens and tens of 248 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: billions of dollars. It's not especially unusual. But here's the 249 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: question met your earlier point, is that a solid investment 250 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: for the for the country's like a local example here 251 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: for us in Atlanta would be when's the last time 252 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: you went to Centennial Park for a free concert years ago? 253 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, how are they making money? It's a park. 254 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: I guess you can have more other events there. That's 255 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: one way to recoup some money, right, But what do 256 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: you do with all those hotels you built, or you know, 257 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: the streets and the street lights and all the things 258 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: you build when you create an entire city, How does 259 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: that recoup money for you? I guess by having other 260 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: big events. That's one of the only ways to do it. Yeah, 261 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: now you might have experienced. Now you might have created 262 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: a path dependence situation where you have to continually figure 263 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: out how to pack those stadiums now to get people 264 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: to pay to see whatever show or spectacle is occurring. 265 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 1: If really, if you ask yourself whether the World Cup 266 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: is a salid investment for a country, it depends on 267 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: how you define success. I mean, we can walk through 268 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: the obvious revenue right TV rights um for the last 269 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: Cup in Russia, those were sold to broadcasters around the 270 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: world for billions of dollars, like four point six billion 271 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: dollars US and that was all kept by FIFA. So Russia, 272 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: Russia didn't make money off that. Oh yeah, because FIFA 273 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: sold it sold the rights to show it. That's odd. 274 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: That's very odd. So like this year and Cutter, how 275 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: much money did you say they spent building that city? 276 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: Two billion? Around two that's what's been projected by CNN. 277 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: Good golly, imagine that's how much you spend on the 278 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: city right to get the World Cup there, and then 279 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: the rights to show the thing to the world go 280 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: to somebody else and that money gets kept by the 281 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: company that's showing up in your country using all your 282 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: facilities you just built and ticket sales. They're owned by 283 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: a subsidiary company which is owned by FIFA. Wait, okay, 284 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: and they just give that money to the host country, right. 285 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: Uh no, even if like how this operates in the past, 286 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: there have been splits, right, like in Uruguay the first 287 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: World Cup, that country was able to walk with like 288 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: half of the ticket sales revenue. That's something, but marketing, 289 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: if they want to market it, they have to pay FIFA. Again, 290 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: FIFA also has the marketing rights. That alone was worth 291 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: more than one billion dollars US and FIFA is making 292 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: a lot of money. And again, uh, you know you 293 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: could say, well, they have to write they own the brand, 294 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: they owned the thing. You know, Uh, you will get 295 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: sued into oblivion if you just got a bunch of 296 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: your buddies from some other countries to say, hey, we're 297 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: doing our We're gonna call it the Globe goblet, you 298 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: know what I mean, the globe chalice or something. They 299 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: will not play, do not pass, go, do not collect 300 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars. You're going straight to like the the 301 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: kind of jail that rich people said to other rich 302 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: people too. Okay, yes, exactly, So okay, I'm trying to 303 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: write my head around this. Ben. Let's say your cutter, 304 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: the country hosting the World Cup. Right now, you're spelling 305 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 1: that money. You're not making money on any of these ways. 306 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: Why the heck would you do this to yourself? Ah? Yeah, 307 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: why would you? Indeed, to answer that question, I think 308 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: we need to pause for a word from our sponsor 309 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: and then uh dive in. Are the rights to these 310 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: commercials owned by wait? I guess it's I heeart, No, 311 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: it's all FIFA. FIFA also owns I hear because we're talking. Yeah, yeah, 312 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: all right, we're back now. Before anybody accuses us being 313 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: biased against the good folks at FIFA. Obviously, the actions 314 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: of folks at the top of an organization are not 315 00:20:54,680 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: representative of what everybody in an organization believes. Obviously. Uh. Secondly, yes, 316 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: I do have a World Cup bracket, and yes it 317 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: is in the tank. I named it Fortune Favors the Foolish. 318 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: Oh boy, Matt, was I wrong? I was wrong on 319 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: so many important games. I there were a lot of 320 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: wins I did not see coming. Yeah mm hmm, yeah. 321 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: I was actually really hoping for Japan there until today. Yeah. Yeah, same, 322 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: it's just the one. I think one of the ones 323 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: that really really knocked me was Saudi Arabia. Yeah, that 324 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: was that was my bad. But you know, it's already 325 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: suckered me. I'm talking as though I was playing. Oh man, Ben, 326 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: it makes so much sense now you're speaking to me. 327 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the black market for World Cup, all 328 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: the betting, or the gray market, or maybe it's a 329 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: white market. I don't know what. If you would describe 330 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: it as it's the legal bedding and the under the 331 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: table bedding, I bet there's so much. Oh gosh, can 332 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: you imagine honestly what Vegas must be looking like right now? Now. 333 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm not personally a gambler. I don't have the whatever 334 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: brain mechanism makes up fun, but no ding on it 335 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: because it's a huge business. A lot of people like 336 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: doing it. It's just I literally went through and randomly 337 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: picked countries. Yeah, I was like, because you know, the 338 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: way those brackets often work is everybody puts in twenty 339 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: bucks or something and first places you get the pots, 340 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: second place you get your money back. And I it 341 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: was something like that. You know, so I'm not in 342 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: an intense thing. I just wanted to try it out, 343 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: and turns out there's a learning curve a little bit 344 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: you can't just I thought I could be like the 345 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: the old stereotype of the horse or chicken just randomly 346 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: picking stuff off a racing sheet. That was not this 347 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: time that you still play the lottery? All right, Okay, 348 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: that was great. That was great. That's gonna be on everybody. 349 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: Check out our YouTube to see that your missus nuance 350 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: here visually. But to your question, why why do this? 351 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: Why go through this huge headache? Well, there's a tourism spike. 352 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: We talked about that. So if you are a local 353 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: business owner. Let's say you own a restaurant that's near 354 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: a stadium where the World Cup is happening, You're probably 355 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: gonna pop your prices up a little bit, right, You're 356 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: definitely gonna have to hire more people. You might want 357 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: to stay open later to uh and that'll in hotels 358 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: will raise their rates they know they know they'll be 359 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: at capacity regardless. But the expense of handling all that 360 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: extra capacity as a country, that kind of that that 361 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: expense is bigger than the increase in revenue, you know 362 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: what I mean. I think about the expense on security, 363 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: Like over the entire area. You don't even know how 364 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: many miles out you'd have to go our kilometers out 365 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: from the major stadium, but you'd have to have increased 366 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: security for a single restaurant just in case. We you know, 367 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: football matches and nothing against them, but people get rowdy 368 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: and after a match, you know, some some bad things 369 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: go down every once in a while, not all the time, 370 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: but every once in a while. You're gonna want to 371 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 1: have somebody watching that stuff. Oh yeah, of course, especially 372 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: if there is a heated rivalry between some teams or 373 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: a hotly contested game. I mean most games are in 374 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: some level hotly contested. But additionally, those security guards might 375 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: not necessarily be getting paid more than their average wage 376 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: people work in this service industry. To answer our spoiler 377 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: question earlier, they're not getting more money maybe if they 378 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: work in tips. But tipping the way we understand it 379 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: in the United States is not not the way the 380 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: rest of the world largely understands it. Uh. Also, countries 381 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: are typically giving out tax breaks right all all across 382 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: the board to make themselves look more attractive to FIFA 383 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: and its partners, but those to cut into the country's 384 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: bottom line. Al Jazeera had this great article where they 385 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: talked about who makes money in in the World Cup, 386 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: and they said, people with money make money here, people 387 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: without it don't. So if you already are, if you're 388 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: already well healed, the World Cup is going to be 389 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: awesome for you. If you own the land where the 390 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: stadium is being built, you know what I mean. If 391 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: you own some logistics or supply company, if you're in 392 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: an industry that gets touched, then you're going to walk 393 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: away with a likelihood of making some some hefty coin. Uh. 394 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: I think the big winner, no matter which team takes 395 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: the Cup, the big winner of the World Cup is 396 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: always FIFA. That's how the system is built. Uh. I 397 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: don't know, man like Okay, When when we think of 398 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the idea of whether or not it's worth it for 399 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: a company or a country to host FIFA, we're talking 400 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: in terms of money. There's much more there. There are 401 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: many more ways to think of success or profit than 402 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: just financial. But I think when most people think of 403 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: corruption in FIFA, they're thinking of the of the numbers, right, 404 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: They're thinking of the cash, the scratch, the cheddar. That's right, 405 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: that's right. And part of that has to do with 406 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,959 Speaker 1: which country you end up hosting your event in, and 407 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: that's why we should talk about that. So how did 408 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: the World Cup end up in Cutter this year? Qatar Um. 409 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: It's because there's this extensive process to sell act the 410 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: host country, right. We know that there's a bidding process 411 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: that countries, just like the Olympics. It's very similar to 412 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: the Olympics process where a host country says, hey, you 413 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: should you should do the World Cup in my country 414 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: because of X Y Z all the way to like 415 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: triple Z and I love saying triples said that. I 416 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: don't know why that's fun. It sounds good when you 417 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: say that. Those English roots somewhere deep inside me. Uh 418 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: so they bid, They put their hand up and say 419 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: this is why you should host it here. Then FIFA 420 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: as an organization votes on those you know, the different 421 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: people who have made that bid. And the crazy thing 422 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: is that they're so backed up. Basically in this process, 423 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: there's split seven to ten years out in choosing host 424 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: countries at this point. Yeah, yeah, this you're exactly right, 425 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: seven years in advance. And it was a little bit 426 00:27:53,640 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: unusual recently because the host of the tournament were chosen 427 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: at the same time as the host for the eighteen tournament. 428 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: So it's it's not always a constant rule, but if 429 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: you are one of the committees, uh, they're trying to 430 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: get your country recognized as the next host country. Well, 431 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: it's a full time job, and it's a arduous, murderous 432 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: job because you have the lobby for you have to 433 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: lobby hard. Each of the member states of FIFA get 434 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: one vote. That's to make things fair and equitable. So 435 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: if you want to be the host country for the 436 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 1: next World Cup, you have to get the majority vote. 437 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: That sounds simple enough, right, I mean that's how people 438 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: get elected to political positions in democracies. Yeah, no, it's true. 439 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: And there's only two hundred and eleven member states, so 440 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: to get a majority of that and well, and everybody's 441 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: got one vote, so maybe you only have to get 442 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: countries to vote for you thirty I don't know. Yeah, okay, Yeah, 443 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Um, if you if it comes down 444 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: to just like two countries, then it's whomever has more 445 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: than fifty, because I'm assuming you would get so many 446 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: there would probably be several dozen countries in the running 447 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: after that first vote. I'm assuming, right, they make a 448 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: short list, right, and then the yeah, and then the 449 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: song and dance of glad handing begins. The next World Cup, 450 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: by the way, folks has already been decided. It is 451 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: the United to bid. Uh. It is gonna take place 452 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: in the US, Canada, and Mexico, and it beat out Morocco. Yeah. 453 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: Pretty interesting. Huh yeah, that's very different. Kind of like it. 454 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: I kind of like it to. I mean, obviously it's 455 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: gonna be a little easier for folks like you or 456 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: me to get there. Uh. It's going to be the 457 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: first time World Cup has been hosted by three countries 458 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: at once. Wow. Wait, what was the name of that 459 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: currency that was going to be Canadian, American and Mexican? 460 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: The Amaro? Is that right? The Amaro, the Amero Cup. 461 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: It's the globalist they're coming soccer ball. Yeah. Uh so, Okay, 462 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: there's another big reason. It's not all the weird stuff 463 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: we're about to get into uh in our third act here, 464 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: But there's a there's another neat just off the top 465 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: reason that you would want your country to host the 466 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: World's Cup. It is this, if you get to host it, 467 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: then your country's team automatically qualifies to compete. So if 468 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: you feel like your gang doesn't have a chance of 469 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: getting into the competition normally, then when you host, that 470 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: question goes out the window. They're already it do you 471 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: win like a trillion dollars when you win the World Cup? 472 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: Just like all the team members get a billion apiece? 473 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: Is that what you get? That would make sense. We'll 474 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: drop two billion, you know, and then each team member 475 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 1: can get a cool bill. The way they put it is, 476 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: the total prize pool works out to four d forty 477 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: million this time around. And that's uh, that includes a 478 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: forty two million dollar prize for the winning team. That's 479 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: not too shabby. It seems like a big investment though 480 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: for that amount of cash. Right, Well, it's not just 481 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: about the money, right It's sending a message. So this 482 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: is where things get very very strange. So over the years, 483 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: a lot of critics, when you say over the years, 484 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: we mean decades, a lot of critics have been saying 485 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: there are countries out there who are not just lobby 486 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: not just trying to make a good presentation about their infrastructure, 487 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: their potential, their outright buying votes. These accusations surface when 488 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: Russia hosted They resurfaced again when Cutter got back in 489 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: the news leading up to this World Cup in We're 490 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: gonna jump around in time here, okay, in the Department 491 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: of Justice in the US said representatives working for Russia 492 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: and Qatar had outright provably dribed FIFA officials, just just 493 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: paid them to vote this way, get get the cup 494 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: in Okay, fine, you can put them in Russia this year, 495 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: but take them to our side of town, you know. Yeah, 496 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: oh yeah. And there's a New York Times piece that 497 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: you can read right now if you can gain access 498 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: to it through whatever means necessary. Uh. It was written 499 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: by Tarik Punja and Kevin Draper, and it really does 500 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: break down the allegations that are set out here about 501 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: specific think FIFA officials, reps, let's say, who were paid 502 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: lots of money, millions of dollars. And this money was 503 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: not just you know, going across a table. You don't 504 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: really do that with millions of dollars. Generally, it's a 505 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: little more difficult to just push across the table. They 506 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: were going through shell companies, like from foreign countries to 507 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: FIFA officials. Yeah. And that story in particular dates back 508 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: to US prosecutor Yeah. Right. US prosecutors say Russia and 509 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: Cutter paid five members of FIFA's top board uh to 510 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: choose their countries. I had of time, right, and these 511 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: folks can influence each other. But the weird thing is 512 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: for at least two of the individuals named, this was 513 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: old beans. You know, they were like that meme of 514 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: James Franco getting hanged and saying first time because Nicholas 515 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: Leo's and Ricardo Texilera, Uh, we're both indicted in on 516 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: charges related to selling soccer rights to sports broadcasters for 517 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: a kickback. So I think we need to talk about 518 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: the biggest issue. When people talk about FIFA and corruption, 519 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: they're often talking about the scandal. H. This is not 520 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: good to four FIFA because the FBI is involved. That's 521 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: never good. Yeah. So back in the day, there were 522 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: a number of people, I think fourteen people indicted in 523 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: connection with an investigation the FBI was doing. Also, guess 524 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: what the I R s uh, oh tax man, it's 525 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: their Criminal Investigation division. They were looking into wire fraud 526 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: and racketeering and good old fashioned money laundering. And uh, 527 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: you know that's not great, right, not a good look 528 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: for that to be going around the news cycle back Uh. 529 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: What was going on been, oh, fourteen people in all 530 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: got indicted, uh, charged with wire fraud, racketeering, and good 531 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: old money laundering. The U S A. G. Attorney General 532 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: also said we're gonna unseal these indictments, meaning the you 533 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: know the public can learn about them. Uh. And we're 534 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: gonna show you the prior guilty please by two corporations 535 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: and four football executives. The whole thing was the idea 536 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: what that people were playing fast and loose in a 537 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: dirty profitable way with media and marketing rights for FIFA 538 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: games in the America's h and at least there were 539 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: at least ten million dollars in bribes. Uh. And that's 540 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: just touching the surface, right. Uh. And there were at 541 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: least a hundred and ten million dollars in brais in 542 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: just one case, and that's scratching the surface. Yeah. There's 543 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: a FIFA official named Chuck Blazer who said who admitted, Yeah, 544 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: I took bribes uh. And it was a quick pro quo. 545 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: I got paid to give the World Cup to France 546 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: and give it to South Africa. In this bribery appeared 547 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: to be a long running grift. This was like a 548 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: the way business was done. At least that's what the 549 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: critics were alleging. Uh. So the voting turned out to 550 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: be a lot more like a who can pay the 551 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: most kind of kind of situation. Well, yeah, because Chuck 552 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: Blazer admitted freely admitted, well, I'm not the only one 553 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: doing this. We all accept this kind of thing. I mean, 554 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: what this is broad We're talking FIFA broadcast, right, so 555 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: you know how much money that is. He didn't say 556 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: it just like that, but it was similar. Yeah, he 557 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: didn't sound as cool as you just did, but he 558 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: did say it. He did basically say that, and uh, 559 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: this dated back to at least ten two. That's when 560 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: Blazer said he would quote facilitate the acceptance of a 561 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: bribe in that selection process. So handshakes, getting people, um, 562 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: getting people connected. And then okay, so this this thing 563 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: is catastrophic for FIFA's public image, and somebody, several people 564 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: have to fall on their swords. Right, they're looking for scapegoats, 565 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: which is what large organizations almost always will do. So 566 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: the president of FIFA, guy named sept Bladder, announces his 567 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: resignation very shortly thereafter. Um Blatter was uh. In the 568 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: eyes of some journalists, Bladder was portrayed as a guy 569 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: who knew bribes were going on but accepted it because 570 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: he needed internal support to allow him to retain power 571 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: as president of FIFA. You know, Ben, this reminds me 572 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: of the Black Monday Murders. What's the name of the 573 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: the position within the inner circle that is this sacrifice. 574 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: It's like the chair, No, what is it? Stone chair, 575 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: the stone chair. That dude said, bladder was on the 576 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: stone chair. He was on the stone chair. Just I 577 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: was thinking the same thing to um. Oh gosh, that 578 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: book is just great. Uh the end is supposed to 579 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: be coming out finally. I keep hearing years That's what 580 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: I keep hearing too. I bet you I said I 581 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: didn't gamble, but now I've got the bug. I would 582 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: bet you um a night out on the town that 583 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: Black Monday Murders still comes out before the next George R. R. 584 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: Martin Song of Ice and Fire Book. I probably wouldn't 585 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: take that back because I think I think it might 586 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: be right not to try. But but yeah, so the 587 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 1: damage is done and again not we're not saying everybody 588 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: working in FIFA is some kind of criminal or uh 589 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: m master uh, financial supervillain. No, but in the eyes 590 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: of the public, where a lot of people have been 591 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: very suspicious of shady dealings and conspiracies within FIFA for generations, 592 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: this scandal proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that 593 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: parts of the story were true. Factions in the organization 594 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: were committed pretty serious crimes, and there's a lot more 595 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: to the story, enough to make an entire podcast series 596 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: at which boy one shout out our powel miles over 597 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: at Daily Zeitgeist. I think the EPD a show called 598 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: Lords of Soccer, which is about this kind of crime 599 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: and corruption. Oh yes, good old miles of gray. And Okay, 600 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: so we've got what seems to be a systemic process 601 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: of buying votes occurring multiple times, and still financial corruption is, 602 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: believe it or not, only a piece of the conspiracy puzzle. Yeah, 603 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: if there's more, it's going to get unsettling. After the break, 604 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: we'll be right back, and we're back a little conspiracy realist. 605 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: Remember how Matt and I were talking about the billions 606 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,439 Speaker 1: of dollars host countries spend to get everything in line 607 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: for the World's Cup. Well, someone has to build all 608 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: that stuff. They're paying for, stadium's facilities, you name it. 609 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: Countries don't have that. A lot of them don't have 610 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: that stuff just laying around already or lying around. Somebody 611 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: has to physically make it happen. And you gotta keep 612 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: costs down. Guys. You know you gotta keep costs down. 613 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: And how do you do that? Oh? Yeah, you just 614 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: don't pay people. Uh, this is this is a huge problem. Uh. 615 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:51,439 Speaker 1: There is a particular kind of sponsorship. It roughly translates 616 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: to um Cutter, which we'll get into it, but if 617 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: you you'll see why a lot of people say this. 618 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 1: Calling it sponsorship is kind of a euphemism for something 619 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: much nastier. Critics have said Cutter has this longstanding record 620 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: of numerous human rights violations, especially when it comes to 621 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: their treatment of foreign workers of LG, T, b Q, 622 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: people of folks who identify as women. As far back 623 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: as ten international sources of note we're saying, hey, the 624 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: World Cup and Cutter might be supporting slavery. In fact, 625 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: I believe it was Amnesty Internationals started calling it the 626 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: Slave Cup. Uh because for a while foreign workers, a 627 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: lot of whom came from Nepal, the Philippines in India. 628 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: There was an investigation the Guardian did and they did 629 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: great work with it that seemed to prove Nepalese workers 630 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: were dying at a rate of almost one per day, 631 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: and Cutter under pretty vague circumstances to like a heart 632 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: attack heart failure, which as you know, can be caused 633 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: by any number of things, folks. It can be overworking 634 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: the heck out of somebody could cause that probably, um, 635 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: And we would say go ahead and pull up your 636 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: old HBO MACS subscription if you've got one, or YouTube. 637 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: You can find it on YouTube. That's the way I 638 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: would do. Actually, check out last week tonight from back 639 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: in the day years ago when John Oliver talked about 640 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: this very thing and then talked about it again pretty 641 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: recently with Cutter. So the Nepalese workers, the people of 642 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,720 Speaker 1: Nepalese origin there were they or are the single largest 643 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: group of laborers in the country. And if you look 644 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: at the way the International Labor Organization define slavery, then 645 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: the circumstances under which they are laboring fit that definition. 646 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: And we're being careful about it. But the accusations are 647 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:05,280 Speaker 1: incredibly terrifying things stuff like evidence of forced labor without compensation, 648 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,240 Speaker 1: or statements from employees who say they haven't been paid 649 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: for months, and sometimes their salaries are withheld to stop 650 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: them from just running away out of desperation. Their passports 651 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,800 Speaker 1: are confiscated. They can't get I D cards, which means 652 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: that the system itself is making you an illegal alien 653 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,439 Speaker 1: after it has taken you within its borders. And that's 654 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: not to mention an entire investigation that the Guardian, but 655 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: this UK outlet that also functions across the globe, they 656 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: found that there were atrocious conditions under which a lot 657 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: of men, these Nepalese men who were working there in Qatar. Uh, 658 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: they were held in these gross situations. We're talking like 659 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: twelve people to a room. We're talking of filthy conditions, 660 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: people getting really sick. It was not it, not at all, 661 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: and uh they you know, you can see footage of 662 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: this in numerous journalistic sources. Now it's it's not livable, right, 663 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 1: And and the heat there is in saying the environment 664 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: is pretty brutal too. That's another thing a lot of 665 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: journalists will bring up and a lot of critics will 666 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: bring up when they say, why did Cutter get chosen 667 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: for this right as such a hot place where you 668 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: can easily die of dehydration or exposure to the sun. Well, 669 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: and and all of that stuff sucks on a human 670 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: level so hard. It's terrible, right. But then when you 671 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: think about the amount of money that is being poured 672 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: into the buildings that are being created by folks who 673 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: are being exploited in this way, it just becomes that 674 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: much more disgusting. I think, yeah, yeah, there's just not 675 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: a good part to the story, you know. And how 676 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: we also consider we have to consider that this country 677 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: has the highest ratio of migrant workers to domestic population 678 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: on the planet. More of the workforce they're immigrants from 679 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 1: some somewhere else. That means that logically these practices are 680 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,760 Speaker 1: influencing the majority of workers in that country. And then 681 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, consider even if you're not working there, you 682 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: can still be affected by just visiting for the World Cup. 683 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: Cutter has laws that restrict and outright illegalize certain lifestyles. Uh. 684 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,319 Speaker 1: They have a sodomy law on the books. Uh so, 685 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: same sex contact between dudes can get you seven years 686 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 1: in in a jail in that country in prison, and 687 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: they're very specific about it. Things that are considered a 688 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: moral are not allowed. Originally, there was this big deal 689 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: about Budweiser, for instance, being one of the I think 690 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,320 Speaker 1: it was Budweis will be one of the sponsors of 691 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: the Cup, and there was going to be this deal 692 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: where you could drink beer in the stadium, or they 693 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: were gonna they were gonna relax some of the um 694 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: anti alcohol laws. Right true, of course, a big deal 695 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: in these countries. But then there was a brief stink 696 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: because Cutter went back and said, oh no, no, we're 697 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,479 Speaker 1: not doing that. Uh about of a concern of our 698 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: own citizens. We don't want them to be offended or 699 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: feel unsafe. So that was there reasoning for this, but 700 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: obviously some Western sponsors felt like they had been had 701 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: or swindled. Uh. And the thing gets me about it, man, 702 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: you have to remember anytime you go to another country, 703 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: you have to respect the laws of that land. Like 704 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: you can't go to a place that has the death 705 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 1: penalty for possession of certain drugs and say, oho, you guys, 706 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: calm down. I know it's Malaysia, but I'm from the 707 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: Netherlands where weed is fine. So just go find someone else, 708 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, and half a great day. Yeah yeah, and 709 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: the same with any other substance. Right, you can't just 710 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: step all over some other countries laws. I can't do that. 711 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,879 Speaker 1: But what happens when the laws in that country are 712 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: human rights and nature? Right? Do your existence as you 713 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: whoever you are, as you identify, is not okay here 714 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: and not allowed, right, Yeah, like a country says we 715 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: refuse to acknowledge your existence as an lgt b Q 716 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: person or something like that, Like it's not anything you did, 717 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,719 Speaker 1: it's who you are that is against the law. Your 718 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: existence is against the law. This is a question the 719 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: international community is wrestling with now. And the thing is 720 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 1: that FIFA is not a government. FIFA is a very 721 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: powerful organization, but it is not a government. So it 722 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: can pressure countries to change their laws or make exceptions, 723 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,720 Speaker 1: but it's only real carrot stick mechanism that can deploy 724 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: is letting you have the world's cup or not letting 725 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: you have the world's cup. Right, And so this is 726 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, that's a door you can only open and 727 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: close so many times. Since it's dealing with countries actual 728 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: sovereign powers, it can't really at this point make a 729 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: nation do anything. It just it can't. Um it can 730 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: exert economic pressure, right, But also FIFA is a traveling show. 731 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 1: Every four years, it's someplace different, right, So, so it's 732 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: not exactly the same as the kind of economic squeeze 733 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: like a UNI lever or a Nestley could exert on 734 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 1: a country just to just to show how those are 735 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: two different situations. All right, we'll explained a lot of 736 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: a lot of weird stuff. One thing we we should 737 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: probably hit before we get to the end is why 738 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: host it all? If it's such a headache and their backlashes. 739 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: You already have to spend billions of money above board, 740 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 1: probably several hundred million beneath board, right to grease the 741 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: right poems. Why are you doing this just because? No, 742 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: it's gotta be it's got to be something that just 743 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm not thinking about ben but something that just changes 744 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: the way other countries think about your country. Maybe I 745 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 1: don't know, Oh, you know, you know exactly. It's good 746 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: all soft power, it's the Confucius Institutes here in the US, 747 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 1: it's Voice of America. It's stuff like that. Diplomacy is 748 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: a hell of a drug, you know. In politics and 749 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: in geopolitics in particular, soft power is this ability to 750 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: co opt rather than coerce. Hard powers coercion, right, hard 751 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: power is send in the army. Soft power is because 752 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 1: you know, don't like us now, like uh, and self 753 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,640 Speaker 1: power happens everywhere right like uh. You will see organized 754 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: crime rings, doing public outreach during disasters, right or tough 755 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 1: economic times. We'll feed your family and make sure you 756 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: remember that it was us who did. So that's soft power. Oh. 757 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,399 Speaker 1: I just want everybody listening, and if there are any 758 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,719 Speaker 1: young people listening, go ahead and just uh turn it 759 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: off right now, parents going turn off? You turn it 760 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: back on in just a second. Um. I just I 761 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: want you to go back, go back a few seconds there. 762 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: Listen to the whole section of Ben explaining that, and 763 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: it makes all total sense. And it does and I agree, Ben, 764 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: but just think about it in the context of a 765 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: male sexual organ and then like think about to two 766 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: different types of power, because it totally matches up and 767 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: it freaks me out. It's creepy, but it's hilarious too, 768 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 1: it's really really funny. Okay, okay, come back, turn back on. 769 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:03,600 Speaker 1: All right, here we go. All right. So this is uh, 770 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: this is a real thing. It's what people are talking 771 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: about when when they say winning hearts and minds, and 772 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: there's nothing inherently wrong with it. That's I think there's 773 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing wrong with it. That's why it's a big 774 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,359 Speaker 1: part of civilization, I mean human civilization as well as 775 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,279 Speaker 1: the amazing game series Civilization. Matt, did you ever play 776 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: that game? So, I'm sure you have. I'm certain you have. 777 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: I did, But honestly, I'm not into it. I'm not 778 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: into it. It's just way too many. I got increased 779 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,160 Speaker 1: numbers here and there and do small actions, not enough, 780 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: not enough real action. You know. It was more of 781 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,359 Speaker 1: like a soft game for me than a hard game. 782 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Oh my god, you're not letting 783 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,959 Speaker 1: this go all right? Uh? Yeah, no, it makes sense. 784 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,600 Speaker 1: People who play Civilization, one of the things will notice 785 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 1: is that there are ways to win the game that 786 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,280 Speaker 1: are entirely cultural and nature. You can have a chosen religion, 787 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,400 Speaker 1: you can become a theocracy. You can achieve a cultural 788 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: victory with out deploying militaries. So there is, I feel 789 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,840 Speaker 1: we're saying it now, there is power to that soft 790 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: power stuff, right, Uh, but not all of it is ethical. 791 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 1: This is something. This leads us to something called sportswashing, 792 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: and there's not a real, like agreed upon definition, but 793 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,879 Speaker 1: most people think that it is a phenomenon defined by 794 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,239 Speaker 1: a couple of things. A big powerful entity, a state, 795 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: or maybe in a nonstate actor uses sports to make 796 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: themselves look better in the public eye, and they can. 797 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: This can be anything from uh, sponsoring sports teams. Right, 798 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: you know, a very wealthy person who needs the reputation 799 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: repaired buys a sports team. Then there are you know, 800 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 1: the idea of hosting sporting events and competitions. Right, the 801 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: the the Olympics in modern history have all always been 802 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: to a degree diplomatic in nature. Right, there's a lot 803 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: of soft power there. Okay, we're just start We're gonna 804 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: start calling it some different hard power for softwire. You 805 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: guys gotta see Matt, I just wish I do with 806 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,440 Speaker 1: the jokes that we're going through your head. I'm sorry, 807 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm like ten twelve years old. Today we're hard powering 808 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:30,719 Speaker 1: through it. It's we'll see no, Paul, keep it a uh. 809 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,759 Speaker 1: So both sides of the human rights argument, engage in 810 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,799 Speaker 1: sports is diplomacy, right, The United Nations does it, International 811 00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,640 Speaker 1: development agencies do it. Uh. Sports plays a role in 812 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,399 Speaker 1: the story of a country. Right In South Africa, when 813 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: President Mandela co signed the national rugby team during the 814 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: World Cup of then that was seen as an example 815 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,919 Speaker 1: of reconciliation. And that's why the world's most important sock 816 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,279 Speaker 1: games or football games, excuse us, are a lot more 817 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: than just some excellent athletes kicking a ball around that. 818 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,600 Speaker 1: And that's also why FIFA is not going to go away, 819 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,600 Speaker 1: just gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger. It's already 820 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: the most popular, it's already the biggest name in the 821 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,279 Speaker 1: most popular sport on the planet, which means I'll just 822 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: generate more and more money. Nott, my friend, I'm asking you, 823 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,360 Speaker 1: what does this mean? How do people even try to 824 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: fix this? Well? I mean, I don't see how you do. 825 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: Right now, I think we should consult with Miles and 826 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: get him on the show to like give us, ah, 827 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, some pointers. What does he think? How would 828 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: he change it? Let's put it on Miles instead of 829 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: on us. We'll pass that that well, we'll pass that buck, 830 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: We'll kick that ball over to over to Miles. I 831 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,040 Speaker 1: think having a I think having that conversation, right, how 832 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,479 Speaker 1: do you actually get a huge organization like this that does, 833 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, connect all of these different countries, all of 834 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,960 Speaker 1: the teams, all of the fans. How do you get 835 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,239 Speaker 1: that organization to play fairly? And what would that even 836 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,320 Speaker 1: look like? Because you know theoretically they've got the bidding 837 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: concept and the voting thing and all of that, And 838 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 1: I think that might be the crux of the problem, 839 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,799 Speaker 1: or at least the the biggest place where corruption can 840 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: begin is that bid that everybody has to put in. 841 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something about that. Yeah, I think 842 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: that's a good point too. And this is just an intro, uh, 843 00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:49,240 Speaker 1: an intro into again, a multigenerational, ongoing series of conspiracies. Folks, 844 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,879 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. What would you say 845 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:57,880 Speaker 1: are the solutions to this? Uh? Does FIFA have a 846 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: responsibility to be come more involved in controversies around human rights? 847 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:09,960 Speaker 1: Or are they simply a sports organization with no um 848 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,279 Speaker 1: Should that not affect their decision at all? We want 849 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,520 Speaker 1: to hear from you. All you have to do is 850 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: drop by our Facebook page or Instagram page or our 851 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: YouTube conspiracy stuff. And if you don't like the social meads, 852 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: well you can always give us a phone call. Yes, 853 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 1: our number is one eight three three std w y 854 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,360 Speaker 1: t K. It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes. 855 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,759 Speaker 1: Please give yourself a cool nickname. We don't care what 856 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,799 Speaker 1: it is. Let us know if we can use your 857 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,040 Speaker 1: name and voice on one of our listener mail episodes 858 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,680 Speaker 1: and say whatever you'd like. If you've got more to 859 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 1: say they can fit in that three minutes, why not 860 00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,440 Speaker 1: instead send us a good old fashioned email. We are 861 00:56:52,800 --> 00:57:04,160 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. M h M. 862 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production 863 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 864 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,520 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 865 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:23,920 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.