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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Very happy to be joined this morning by a longtime

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, additional MSNBC refugee here, Torre, who is

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Speaker 2: doing all kinds of cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: You are blowing up on TikTok, been covering the Diddy

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Speaker 2: trial really closely, among other things. You've got a substack,

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Speaker 2: You've got a new show, Truth Talks Live on YouTube

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Speaker 2: that people should go ahead and check out. How are you,

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Speaker 2: my friends, I'm good.

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Speaker 4: I'm good.

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Speaker 5: I'm upset about the situation that's going on in Gaza,

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Speaker 5: and I've been doing a lot of CNN a lot

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Speaker 5: of Abby Phillips show where you get arguing with the right.

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Speaker 5: I don't usually talk to people from the right in

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Speaker 5: my real life because usually they're I don't know, they're

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Speaker 5: often in space. There was a segment that really bothered

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Speaker 5: me about the rise of anti Semitism in America, and

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Speaker 5: I think that that is real. Although we can talk

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Speaker 5: about that because I saw another segment that talked about

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Speaker 5: how the ADL is inflating those numbers.

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Speaker 4: But I think that.

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Speaker 5: Israel is making the world less safe for American Jews

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Speaker 5: by destroying the image of Israel through this genocide.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I insisting that Israel and Judaism are one

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Speaker 2: and the same by erasing any sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: anti Zionist Jewish voices who have been incredibly influential and

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Speaker 2: instrumental in the pro Palestine, you know, protest movement.

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Speaker 4: Here, we have.

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Speaker 5: Definitely seen more Jewish people in the pro Palestine movement

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Speaker 5: over the last year, year and a half, you know.

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Speaker 5: And it's also it's really discussing the way that a

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Speaker 5: lot of folks who are on that side try to

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Speaker 5: reduce Palestinian people, many of whom are fifty percent of

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Speaker 5: that population are children, but they want to talk about

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Speaker 5: them as if they are all hamas and they are

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Speaker 5: all terrorists. And the dehumanization that you mentioned last segment

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Speaker 5: is absolutely real, as if they are not real people

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Speaker 5: and we can kill them. They are all animals, even

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Speaker 5: if they are young, even if they are children. And

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Speaker 5: I think the world sees the way that Israel is

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Speaker 5: approaching Palestine, and many people are responding in an appropriate way.

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Speaker 5: The encampments, the college protests have been a very appropriate

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Speaker 5: and aggressive way to protest. Now we've also seen horrific,

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Speaker 5: violent anti semitism that is obviously not appropriate. But when

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Speaker 5: a country sets its image on fire in the world,

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Speaker 5: what do you think is going to happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know it's funny. Ken Klebnstein actually got the

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Speaker 2: Intel report on the guy here who murdered the two

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Speaker 2: Israeli embassy officials, and in it they say, in this

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Speaker 2: report they don't talk about anti Semitism, and they talk

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Speaker 2: He is motivated by the horrors that he's seeing unfolding

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Speaker 2: in Gaza and the fact that he feels there is

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Speaker 2: no democratic way in order to effectuate change. And so

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Speaker 2: it's important to understand that even while obviously saying this

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Speaker 2: violence against civilians is exactly the reason why we're opposed

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Speaker 2: to the genocide occurring in Palestine and Gaza. But you know,

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Speaker 2: that is the administration's assessment that this was not actually

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Speaker 2: quote unquote anti Semitism, that this is a direct result

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Speaker 2: of the horrors that we are all watching in our

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Speaker 2: feeds every day. So appreciate you offering your perspective editory,

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Speaker 2: especially since you are on CNN all the time and

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Speaker 2: sort of inside these rooms. Still also wanted to get

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Speaker 2: your wanted to get your thoughts today on a couple things.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about the Diddy trial, which

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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to, but I also wanted to get

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Speaker 2: your thoughts and Ryan's thoughts on this effort among Democrats

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Speaker 2: to figure out what's going on with the men.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: There's this big, significant conversation I think is important about

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Speaker 2: the way that men and young men in particular have

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Speaker 2: been moving to the right, you know, coming on the

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Speaker 2: heels of a Bernie Sanders coalition that was smeared as

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Speaker 2: being too male and too young and whatever. And then

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Speaker 2: once they you know, trashed that part of the coalition,

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Speaker 2: it started to shift away from them. So there's this

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Speaker 2: evert you know, official multimillion dollar effort to talk to

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Speaker 2: the men and figure out what's going on. And let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and start with the ladies of the view

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Speaker 2: and Joy Behart in particular and her take on this

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Speaker 2: this study and what the Democratic Party should really be

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Speaker 2: doing in terms of men.

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Speaker 6: Look, I don't know that you learn how to talk

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Speaker 6: to men by being in a conference center at a

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Speaker 6: New York hotel up with strategists and experts in suits.

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Speaker 6: I think people need to go into the barrios and

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Speaker 6: the neighborhoods and the barbershops and the and the.

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Speaker 4: Places where real people are.

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Speaker 6: And I think one of the problems that the Democrats

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Speaker 6: have several of them, but one of the things is

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Speaker 6: that they keep talking about how weak their brand is

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Speaker 6: and how bad their team is. I never met a man,

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Speaker 6: I never met a woman. I never met a human

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Speaker 6: who wants to join a losing team. So maybe start

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Speaker 6: projecting some you know.

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Speaker 4: Winning attitude.

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Speaker 7: And I think I think it's a waste of money.

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Speaker 6: Maybe these guys should spend their money on teaching men

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Speaker 6: to not be such sexist.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's the stats don't bear that out. Now that

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Speaker 2: thank you now be seen the eleven.

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Speaker 8: Years old, Donald Trump performed better with than the previous

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Speaker 8: several Republicans with most every people group. He did better

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Speaker 8: with black men, better with Latino men, better with white

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Speaker 8: men and white women. Like, it's just a fact that

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Speaker 8: he has tapped into something and what I think that

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Speaker 8: it was running against a woman, but I'm saying that

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Speaker 8: men showed up more for him. Oh so you think

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Speaker 8: that Democrats who were with Biden in twenty twenty left

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Speaker 8: to be with Trump because they're sexist.

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Speaker 7: I don't know the reason, but it's very much so, Tore.

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Speaker 2: Do we need Democrats to spend more time lecturing men

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Speaker 2: about how they're to sexist? Is that going to bring

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Speaker 2: them back into the party fold?

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Speaker 9: No?

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Speaker 5: I mean, apparently they feel like we have been lecturing

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Speaker 5: them and telling them that they are too masculine, they

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Speaker 5: are too toxic, they are too disgusting. I understand what

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Speaker 5: these young guys are saying that the democratic world, not

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Speaker 5: necessarily just the politicians, but all the people around them

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Speaker 5: who are liberal in public or progressive in public, are

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Speaker 5: making them feel like being masculine is inherently a bad thing,

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Speaker 5: and like being Republican means being strong and being Democrat

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Speaker 5: means being weak, and we've been dealing with that, I

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Speaker 5: think stereotyped for a long time, right, I mean, the

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Speaker 5: Democrat has been the Democrats have been the mommy party

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Speaker 5: for a long time, and the Republicans have been the

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Speaker 5: tough on foreign policy daddy party. You know, we have

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Speaker 5: all these sneaky conservative outlets.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 5: Joe Rogan is not overtly conservative, but he keeps giving

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Speaker 5: you conservative ideas right aiden ross these others who are

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Speaker 5: not overtly conservative. There's definitely an image problem among men

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Speaker 5: and Democrats who used to be we used to be

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Speaker 5: the party of unions, so clearly working guys thought the

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Speaker 5: Dems were they are for them at one point in

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Speaker 5: our lifetimes. I'm not quite sure quite how you get

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Speaker 5: back to that. When we love the intellectual dem right,

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Speaker 5: I mean thinking about like Barack from Harvard and Bill

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Speaker 5: for you know the way I mean, we love the intellectuals,

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Speaker 5: even Bernie as much we love him, he's an intellectual. Like,

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Speaker 5: there's got to be a different way of communicating with people.

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Speaker 10: I don't know, although Bernie worked like Bernie had the

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Speaker 10: young guys across the you know, across you know the

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Speaker 10: board that clip though, to me was so revealing that

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Speaker 10: that view clip. First of all, Annonavarro is kind of

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Speaker 10: misunderstanding what's going on here. It's like she's like, you're

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Speaker 10: not gonna, you know, win over men in luxury hotels. No,

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Speaker 10: they're not going to luxury hotels to win over men. Uh,

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Speaker 10: they're going to luxury hotels to shake down rich people

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Speaker 10: for a bunch of money, and then they're going to

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Speaker 10: use that money to like, you know, do content and

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Speaker 10: stuff that tries to reach what the barbershop and the

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Speaker 10: and the borrows and all that like that, that's that's

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Speaker 10: how that pipeline works. But the joy behar one was

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Speaker 10: even more revealing, like she's like, why would you do

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Speaker 10: this because men suck?

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Speaker 2: It made sympathetic to this study?

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Speaker 11: Actually yes, it's like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: It definitely seemed like she had not prepared for the segment,

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Speaker 5: because if she had read the notes about the studies,

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Speaker 5: she would know you're doing the exact opposite of what

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Speaker 5: devs need to.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know the audience ate it up, which

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Speaker 2: was the other revealing part of what happened there. Let's

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Speaker 2: go and put go ahead and put D two up

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Speaker 2: on the screen just so we can see a little

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Speaker 2: bit of what the study is revealing so far. So

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Speaker 2: the focus groups found young men feel there in crisis,

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Speaker 2: stressed a shame, and confused over what it means to

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Speaker 2: be a man. In twenty twenty five, they vented about

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Speaker 2: conflicting cultural messages of masculinity that put them in a

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Speaker 2: no win situation around the meaning of a man. According

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Speaker 2: to the SAM what is it? What does SAM stand for? Again?

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Speaker 10: Speaking speaking about men's about that?

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Speaker 2: Put the next piece up on the screen. This speaks

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Speaker 2: to some of what, you know, what we've been saying

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Speaker 2: for a while. They describe how the COVID pandemic left

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Speaker 2: them isolated, socially disconnected. They said they now feel overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: by economic anxiety, making traditional milestones like buying a home

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Speaker 2: or saving for kids college feel impossible. One analysis of

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Speaker 2: the research said, and so and we've got I think

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Speaker 2: one more quote we can put up here too. Democrats

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Speaker 2: are seen as weak, you were saying, some of this

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Speaker 2: tore whereas Republicans are seen as strong. According to Alice

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Speaker 2: Hoag who's involved with this, young men also being invisible

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Speaker 2: to the Democratic coalition. And so you've got this weak problem.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got this, I don't think they care

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Speaker 2: about me problem, and I think the combination is kind

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Speaker 2: of a killer. And to be honest with you, I

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Speaker 2: don't really disagree with any of that. I think the

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Speaker 2: part that's a little like lol is that you needed

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Speaker 2: to pay millions of dollars to come to these conclusions,

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Speaker 2: which you know, to me are fairly straightforward and obvious.

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Speaker 2: That when the traditional definition of what it means to

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Speaker 2: be a man is to be a provider, you know,

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Speaker 2: to be able to have the job and make the

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Speaker 2: money and support the family and support the wife and

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Speaker 2: the kids in the house of the picket fence and whatever.

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Speaker 2: And over decades we've stripped that ability away. That that

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Speaker 2: is going to create some you know, some upset, some dislocation,

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Speaker 2: and some searching for answers.

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Speaker 5: It does, it also represents the fundamental problem the Democratic

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Speaker 5: Party has right now and then for so long we

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Speaker 5: have been about uplifting people who are not traditionally at

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Speaker 5: the table, right, black, brown, female working class through unions.

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Speaker 5: That's healthcare, right, that's what we you know, we're about

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Speaker 5: affirmative action. We're about lifting up the working class, right,

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Speaker 5: and so that means we are not here for the

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Speaker 5: people in power. And I remember, I think it's like

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Speaker 5: fifteen years ago now, Harvard did a study that said

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Speaker 5: white people see race as a zero sum game that

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Speaker 5: they are losing, which is just the notion of the

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Speaker 5: people in power. When we start to try to add

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Speaker 5: some equity, they feel like they are losing. They are

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Speaker 5: the victims, they are losing something in society. And here

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Speaker 5: we are, again, straight white men as Democrats try to say, hey,

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Speaker 5: can we also give some power and some piece and

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Speaker 5: some justice to trans people, gay people, women, black and

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Speaker 5: brown people.

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Speaker 4: And they're like, oh my god, you're taking away all

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Speaker 4: my rights. We are literally not, But that's how you feel.

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Speaker 10: I think it's a question of whether or not there's

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Speaker 10: a play a welcome place in the coalition for an

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Speaker 10: were white guys, And you know, I grew up a

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Speaker 10: poor white guy, and in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 10: the place for those people and the place where I

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Speaker 10: would feel at home was within the Democratic Party. There

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Speaker 10: wasn't any question like the Republicans were the party of Reagan,

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Speaker 10: the party of George H. W.

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Speaker 11: Bush. They were the party for.

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Speaker 2: Rich country club.

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Speaker 11: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: Now I'm an upper middle class white guy, and the

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Speaker 10: Democrats are still the party you know that where you're

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Speaker 10: you know, a white upper middle class guy is going

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Speaker 10: to be well welcomed in welcome also in the Republican Party.

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Speaker 10: White middle class guys there, I mean upper middle class guys, they're.

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Speaker 11: Welcome every everywhere, right, well, welcome everywhere.

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Speaker 10: But if you're a poor white guy, now, like, it

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Speaker 10: doesn't it does not feel like the Democratic Party kind

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Speaker 10: of wants you in there. And Joy Behar is saying, like,

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Speaker 10: right there, and I don't think it's just white either anymore.

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Speaker 10: Democratic Party, Joey bayhar men or sexist, like stop being

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Speaker 10: so sexist, Like do we really want these men in

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Speaker 10: here who are going to be sex.

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Speaker 4: We're going to need some of them if we're going

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Speaker 4: to win an.

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Speaker 10: Election, Yes, exactly. And so I think this uproar about

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Speaker 10: this study. I think it's worth unpacking where it comes from,

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Speaker 10: because if you think about it, it's of course it's

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Speaker 10: the Republicans. When they were losing with women, they went

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Speaker 10: out and studied women, tried to figure out how to

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Speaker 10: win them back.

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Speaker 11: And that was comical. But what was comical about.

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Speaker 10: It was not that they were trying to win them back,

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Speaker 10: but it was that they had to study them in

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Speaker 10: the first place, that they had gone so far around

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Speaker 10: the bend that they had lost women so badly that

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Speaker 10: they needed to hire people to explain to how to

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Speaker 10: talk to these mysterious creatures. And so now the Democrats

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Speaker 10: are stuck in the exact same place. So it's obvious

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Speaker 10: they do need to do this. And apparently the only

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Speaker 10: way that democratic elites will listen to anything is if

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Speaker 10: it comes through a multimillion dollar focus groups rather than

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Speaker 10: just you know, like would be a preferable way of

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Speaker 10: doing is just naturally attracting people into your coalition.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, the other thing that drivesing you crazy ran

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Speaker 2: about that too is like you did have an example

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Speaker 2: with Bernie Sanders where it works so like, and that

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Speaker 2: seems to me much better data and research than your

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Speaker 2: sort of inorganic focus groups. You have a very recent

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Speaker 2: example that was very successful with this group and did

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Speaker 2: not require you to like abandon your principles or like,

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Speaker 2: you know, become sexist. So go ahead to RAI No,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I.

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Speaker 4: Think, I mean obviously that's right.

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Speaker 5: I think Dems are still speaking to young men and

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Speaker 5: to most people in an intellectual, logical way. I will

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Speaker 5: help you with this policy, this program that you should

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Speaker 5: intellectually understand is going to be beneficial for you. And

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Speaker 5: then Republicans Trump does this even better. But most Republicans

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Speaker 5: come with an emotional thing that grabs you, you know,

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Speaker 5: and makes you feel like, yes, this is a team

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Speaker 5: that gets me that, that is a thing that bothers

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Speaker 5: me that And they understand thosetional triggers much better than

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Speaker 5: the Democratic Party does.

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Speaker 10: And I wanted to underline one of the things that

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Speaker 10: was in that political article, which is their use of

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Speaker 10: the term economic anxiety. So the people who did these

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Speaker 10: focused groups and did these studies, you said, you know,

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Speaker 10: we now understand that men have genuine economic anxiety about

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Speaker 10: their place in the world. In twenty fifteen, if you remember,

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Speaker 10: if you ever used the term economic anxiety, you would

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Speaker 10: get piled on on Twitter and say stop talking about

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Speaker 10: economic anxiety when you're not using the terms that you

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Speaker 10: really mean, which is these are people who are racist

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Speaker 10: and sexist. Yes, and so it's belated, but ten years

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Speaker 10: later they're like, Okay, they actually are feeling economic anxiety and.

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Speaker 5: That yes, there is genuine economic anxiety because the economy

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Speaker 5: does not allow people in their twenties to reach the

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Speaker 5: benchmarks that they did when the previous generations. Yeah, fine,

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Speaker 5: but they are also being racist. They are also being

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Speaker 5: white peop are. They are also in love with white

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Speaker 5: privilege and seeing it seep away.

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Speaker 4: So both those things.

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Speaker 2: But sorry, how do you then grapple with that? You

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Speaker 2: have not just white men moving into the Trump coalition,

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Speaker 2: but you have black and brown men moving into the

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Speaker 2: Trump coalition. And I mean, I'll tell you my view

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Speaker 2: is when you have these heightened levels of economic anxiety

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Speaker 2: and people feeling like they don't know how they're going

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Speaker 2: to find their place, they don't know how they're going

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Speaker 2: to achieve the things that their father and grandfather were

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Speaker 2: able to achieve, that opens them up for you know,

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Speaker 2: the Trumpian explanations, the far right explanations of scapegoating this

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Speaker 2: group and that group words trand people are immigrants or

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Speaker 2: college educated women or whoever the villain of the day

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Speaker 2: happens to be. And so to me, I don't think

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Speaker 2: you could ever truly disentangle those two things, because I

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Speaker 2: think they are connected, and I think there is a

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Speaker 2: relationship there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, I think that the black movement there is perhaps

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Speaker 5: less significant than we've been talking about.

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Speaker 4: It was not a gigantic coalition.

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Speaker 5: He was not statistically way out of line with what

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Speaker 5: Republicans have gotten. I think some black men responded to

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Speaker 5: some of the same things that white men responded to,

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Speaker 5: as far as masculinity, as as far as misogyny against Kamala,

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Speaker 5: as far as the sense that I clearly understand what

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Speaker 5: this candidate wants, and I don't understand clearly what that

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Speaker 5: candidate wants, So some of them may have come to

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Speaker 5: it with you know, that sort of math. I think

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Speaker 5: that when we think about Latino voters, we have wrongly

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Speaker 5: thought that they would think of themselves politically as people

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Speaker 5: of color, and many of them do not, and they

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Speaker 5: vote as if they were white people, and we are

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Speaker 5: as dams. We are like thrown off by, like, oh,

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Speaker 5: we thought this would become our coalition, and they're like, no,

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Speaker 5: we want to assimilate, we want a big money. Even

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Speaker 5: if he says anti Hispanic things, we are still rolling

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Speaker 5: with him. It's it's a tricky position for the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 5: We see right as unpopular as Trump is, the Democrats.

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Speaker 4: Are even less popular.

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Speaker 5: Yea, And I'm not even sure who is the person

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Speaker 5: who will be the leader to get us out of this.

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Speaker 5: We both love Bernie, but we need somebody. I assume

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Speaker 5: he's too old to actually be the savior himself.

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Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, So the question then I have is things

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Speaker 10: are getting objectively worse for men across the board in America.

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Speaker 10: Things are getting objectively worse for women across the board

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Speaker 10: in America. This is this is true. Things are getting

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Speaker 10: probably relatively a little worse for men than for women

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Speaker 10: to buy all the all those standards, but they're getting

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Speaker 10: worse for everybody. So then what is the acceptable way

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Speaker 10: for men to express that anxiety politically? They tried in

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Speaker 10: twenty fifteen and sixteen with Bernie Sanders, and we're told

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Speaker 10: that that's not an acceptable way of doing it because

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Speaker 10: you're actually just racist and sexist and you're afraid of

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Speaker 10: having a Hillary Clinton as the nominee. Obviously it's not

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Speaker 10: acceptable to do with Trump. It's deplorable, and uh, you

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Speaker 10: know he's he's racist and sexist, so you can't you know,

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Speaker 10: express it through him either. So then how like, what

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Speaker 10: what vehicle do men have to say I think the

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Speaker 10: world is getting worse and I want it to change

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Speaker 10: without being dumped on it's a great question.

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Speaker 4: Do you do you really not understand the question? Are

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Speaker 4: you just throwing me a question?

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Speaker 11: Yeah? What's what?

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Speaker 10: What's how can they what is an acceptable way for

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Speaker 10: I think who feels that way.

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Speaker 11: To express themselves?

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Speaker 5: I think with Trump the message has been quite muddy

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Speaker 5: with racism, and the notion that you are not getting

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Speaker 5: what you deserve.

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Speaker 4: Is wrapped up in racism.

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Speaker 5: I would love to hear a genuine conversation with a

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Speaker 5: politician who I don't believe is racist, who is not

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Speaker 5: playing on white fragility and white victimhood to make the

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Speaker 5: case of like, I can do better for you economically.

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Speaker 5: We haven't yet seen that we've come into this moment

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Speaker 5: where we have this economic crisis and we have this

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Speaker 5: population crisis because a lot of white people are afraid

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Speaker 5: that they are about to become the minority versus people

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Speaker 5: of color in this country, and so those two things

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Speaker 5: and globalization are happening at the same time. If we

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Speaker 5: could have just a conversation about the economy without it

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Speaker 5: being wrapped up in racism, I would welcome that conversation.

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Speaker 5: But I think that the racism has been cloaked in

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Speaker 5: the economic argument. I think quite I mean, we understand

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Speaker 5: quite often these people are blaming immigrants for things that

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Speaker 5: are actually economic problems that are actually not their issue. Right,

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Speaker 5: They are not bringing crime, they're not taking away American jobs,

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Speaker 5: so they are an avatar for something that's not happening.

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Speaker 5: So that's not that that's not a quality argument for men.

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Speaker 5: So I would want to have the just let's start

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Speaker 5: to have the conversation without tiling in the racism, because

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Speaker 5: quite often it is just a way of hiding the racism.

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Speaker 2: Last thing I was saying then we'll move to Diddy

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Speaker 2: is I think you were onto something And I've been

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Speaker 2: thinking about this recently when you were tired, and I

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Speaker 2: think this is somewhere with the left needs to work on.

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Speaker 2: Speaking as a leftist when you say, yes, it's about

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Speaker 2: the material concerns. But the other thing that the right

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Speaker 2: has done is provided this sort of like hero story

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Speaker 2: and like a sense of belong and like there's more

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Speaker 2: than just we're going to you know, check the box

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Speaker 2: that you're going to get healthcare and you're going to

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Speaker 2: get minimum wage. Yes, those things are good. I think

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Speaker 2: that would be a better, certainly a better political and

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Speaker 2: policy path to go on et cetera. But I think

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Speaker 2: part of the appeal of Bernie movement wasn't just those

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Speaker 2: material concerns being addressed. There was a sense of like belonging.

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Speaker 2: We're on a team together and we're doing a thing,

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Speaker 2: and here's our goal and here's our mission, and we're

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Speaker 2: in this together. And you know, I think to Ryan's question,

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Speaker 2: like right now and what the Democratic Party is like

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Speaker 2: having these struggle sessions about is figuring out how to like, ultimately,

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Speaker 2: they need to figure out you need an organic movement,

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Speaker 2: You need a program that people believe in. You need

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Speaker 2: a leader that's charismatic that gets people buy and into

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Speaker 2: that program. You know, that's not just about then, but

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Speaker 2: that's about everybody succeeding and it not being some zero

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Speaker 2: sum game. And you know, to circle back to joy Bay,

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Speaker 2: are you probably not going to get there by being

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Speaker 2: like you're bad? And here's why.

441
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 5: There's some psychosocial scholars who talk about you know, left

442
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 5: and right, conservative and liberal, progressive, And one of the

443
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 5: things that keeps coming up is that conservatives and.

444
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 4: The right they like hierarchy.

445
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 5: They understand he is at the top and we are below.

446
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: And I think.

447
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 5: Dems innately understand a more flattened.

448
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 4: Society sort of situation.

449
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 5: Where like, you know, we're a group without a strong hierarchy,

450
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 5: and I think young men respond to that this sort

451
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 5: of notion of like, here's this big, strong, tough guy

452
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 5: who's going to be our leader, and they're like, yeah.

453
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: That's great.

454
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 5: And somebody who's like, you know, dem who's like, you know,

455
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 5: let's work together and have a coalition and like figure

456
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 5: things out together.

457
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 4: It's a little too kumbaya for them.

458
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

459
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 10: I think an interesting flip of that is Bernie's slogan

460
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 10: of not me us, and that appeals to that flat

461
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 10: lateral element. But he's also a guy who's been saying

462
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 10: the same stuff for thirty forty fifty years, and so

463
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 10: people believed, Okay, it's yes, not me us, but also

464
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 10: it's him because he has integrity and we're going to

465
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 10: follow him.

466
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 11: But it's all of us doing it together.

467
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 10: And I think, Torri, I'm curious for your Tori, I'm

468
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 10: cures for your take on this. I think the answer

469
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 10: would be if democrats and the reason it's not going

470
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 10: to come out of these luxury hotels, uh, if democrats

471
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 10: fight powerful corporate and oligarch interests there's a masculine energy

472
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 10: to that, like it's and what Bernie Sanders, despite not

473
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 10: being you know, a man's man like he was, he

474
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 10: was fighting against the one percent and the millionaires and

475
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 10: the billionaires and.

476
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: So and casting you in a role as hero, what

477
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: you're doing for others?

478
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, right, we're going to all collectively fight for a

479
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 10: better world. And so we're gonna it's not the toxic

480
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 10: masculinity it's going to be but it, but it is

481
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 10: going to be a masculine aggressive effort against the people

482
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 10: who are robby.

483
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 4: That would be amazing. Uh, the corporate Democratic Party.

484
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 10: Right, exactly best, exactly, That's why I'd be like, they

485
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 10: have to do just a care. They just do a care.

486
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 10: We're going to take care of everybody. But we're not

487
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 10: gonna fight anybody because and it's not because they're mommy's.

488
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 10: It's because they're sellouts and they're bought off.

489
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's basically what Welcome Fest is all because like,

490
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: let's make sure that challenging corporate powers was actually.

491
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 11: A party of mom's. Like moms fight hard, that's true,

492
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 11: they fight.

493
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, but mom takes care of you, mom nurtures you.

494
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 5: It's not sexy right, dad goes out to fight and

495
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 5: these are obviously ancient stereotypes, but like that's is the

496
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 5: daddy party will attack the barbarians.

497
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 10: In Iran, but if a mom'sammy party will, like if

498
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 10: the family.

499
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: Felt them, the Mama bear, the Sarah Palin Mama bear trope.

500
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: Let's move on to what's going on with with Diddy here,

501
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: because you've been you know, blown up on TikTok talking

502
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: about this trial. What are we now? Are two weeks in?

503
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: Three weeks in?

504
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: This is the end of the third week.

505
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's put this Business Insider tear sheet up

506
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: on the screen that had some of the key details here.

507
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: And you know, I think most people be familiar with

508
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: the horrific hotel video of Cassie being beaten and dragged

509
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: by Diddy, and this is they played this pretty early

510
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 2: in the trial to sort of set the stage that

511
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: the prosecution did, and it is also critical to their

512
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: case about Hey, this was an act that was taking

513
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: place in the context of sex trafficking, which is one

514
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: of the charges here. So just take us through sort

515
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 2: of the broad strokes of where we are right now.

516
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 5: We have heard the government is still putting on their case.

517
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 5: They have produced many many witnesses who have said, did

518
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 5: he was violent? Did he was controlling? Did he was

519
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 5: using his organization to control Cassie. We've heard so many

520
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 5: insane stories. Just yesterday, this woman who's a friend of

521
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 5: Cassie's out on the stand and talked about did he

522
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 5: dangling her over a seventeenth story balcony and then dropping

523
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 5: her onto the furniture of the balcony. The one hundred

524
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 5: thousand dollars thing you mentioned is an incredible moment because

525
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 5: it brings in multiple predicate crimes that the government needs

526
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: to prove in order to prove racketeering. Long stories or

527
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 5: did he beat up Cassie? It was videotaped. His chief

528
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 5: of staff and did he himself? Both went to the

529
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 5: hotel personally multiple times saying we need that tape. Finally

530
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 5: the hotel. The hotel first said we can't give it

531
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 5: to you, we don't have access to that room. And

532
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 5: then they kept pressing the issue and the guy's boss says, okay,

533
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 5: give us fifty K.

534
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: And I'm I didn't know.

535
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 5: That this sort of a bribe would happen that easily, Like, well,

536
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 5: if you just pony up fifty k, then you can

537
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 5: get whatever security it takes you want. So Diddy shows

538
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: up with cash and a money counter. They give him

539
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 5: the tape and then he counts out one hundred thousand,

540
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 5: even though the fee was only fifty thousand, and they're like,

541
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 5: what this is for the other guys. So he's proactively

542
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,959
Speaker 5: bribing the other people in the situation. So this is

543
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 5: multiple bribes. This is obstruction of justice, this is witness tampering.

544
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 5: That's three separate predicate crimes.

545
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 4: In one story.

546
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: He's also committed kidnapping, which is also that extortion. We

547
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 5: just saw that extortion proved because the CFO a Bad

548
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 5: Boy came up for very briefly and said, yes, we

549
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 5: did receive twenty thousand dollars from Cassie's father, which happened

550
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 5: after Puffy said I'm mad at you and I'm gonna

551
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 5: put out this sex tape if you don't give me

552
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 5: twenty k. And so they took out a home equity

553
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 5: load so that they could access twenty k and sent

554
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 5: it to Ditty.

555
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 4: But the other part of that.

556
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 5: Story that I noticed she was a recording artist at

557
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 5: Bad Boy for at least four years when the twenty

558
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 5: thousand dollars. Extortion request was made and her mom takes

559
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: out a home equity loan. She was not liquid enough

560
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 5: to come up with twenty thousand dollars in an absolute emergency.

561
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 5: As a recording clearly she's kept with no money. So

562
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: this is how he's coercing her, because you get as

563
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 5: a recording artist, you're gonna get money when your album

564
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 5: comes out, right, Like generally they give you an advance

565
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 5: to go make the album, and then when you come

566
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 5: back for the next album, they give you another check.

567
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 5: So if you're not putting out albums and you're not touring,

568
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: you're not getting any money. So he's keeping her in

569
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 5: this economic prison.

570
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 10: It sounds like you don't need the freak Offs to

571
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 10: make the case here, like that, is that right? It's

572
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 10: because a lot of this stuff.

573
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 5: The freak off is the center of the whole thing.

574
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 5: The government's case is that the whole operation is to

575
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 5: get the freak Offs to happen, and to facilitate them,

576
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 5: to make them happen, to control Cassie so she stays

577
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 5: in the organization, and then to clean up after them,

578
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 5: like in this situation when we needed to get that

579
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 5: tape Okay, the chief of staff and Diddy and Diddy's

580
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 5: corporate money are getting that back for him. I think

581
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 5: we started with Cassie, and yesterday the government put ten

582
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 5: sex tapes, including Cassie, into evidence under seal, And I

583
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 5: think that what they're doing is they're preparing for the

584
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: end of their case to be them showing these videos

585
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 5: to the jury. The public and the gallery will not

586
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 5: see them, but the jury will see them, I think,

587
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 5: and that I assume will be quite devastating for the defense.

588
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: Because my understanding is that, I mean, they have him

589
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: dead to rights on all kinds of I mean, beat

590
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: the show on her on multiple occasions. They've got all

591
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: kinds of witnesses. They have another woman who came forward

592
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: and said he raped me too. You have a kid

593
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: cutting incident where he you know, reportedly like bombed his

594
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: car out of jealousy and was in his house and

595
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, messing with his the Christmas presence that he

596
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: had wrapped up to give his family, like just total insane,

597
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: unhinged violent behavior. My understanding of what did hey side

598
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: is prepared to argue is basically like that's domestic violence,

599
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: that's not sex trafficking and so is that where they're headed.

600
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: And is that why the the freak Offs which entailed,

601
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: you know, bringing these male sex workers in and coercing

602
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: Cassie and all of these things, Is that why that

603
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: becomes so central?

604
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 5: Well, yes, the freak Offs are the central sex trafficking

605
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 5: act that all of this is built to construct. The

606
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 5: kid cutting story is actually quite devastating for Diddy because

607
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: arson is also a predicate offense that proves racketeering that

608
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 5: you use to build toward a racketeering case.

609
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: So there's a criminal enterprise, not just individual acts of violence,

610
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: which is not what this case is fundamentally about, right.

611
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 5: Right, And people keep going back to the notion of like, well,

612
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 5: it's not a criminal enterprise like the Sopranos, which overtly

613
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: tries to commit crime as its main job.

614
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 11: Right.

615
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 5: Lawyers have said to be well, the money's going the

616
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 5: wrong way. They're not making any money from the crimes

617
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 5: they're committing. Fine, But like the sex trafficking, Cassie is

618
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 5: coerced and controlled by violence, by blackmail, I'll release the tape,

619
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 5: by economic means, if you don't do what I say,

620
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: I will not put out your album, And by violence

621
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 5: that Diddy has bodyguards who act like soldiers who go

622
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 5: and retrieve her from wherever she is if he doesn't

623
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 5: know where she is in any given moment, So she's

624
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 5: stuck in this world. She tells one of his assistants,

625
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 5: I can't get out, so she's trapped in this thing

626
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 5: and thus used for sex trafficking, or she is sex

627
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 5: trafficked and you sexually week after week after week. She says,

628
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 5: the freak offs are like two to three four days

629
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 5: every week for like nine ten years. Like, I don't

630
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 5: even know how a person could function in that way

631
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 5: when you're having that much every week. And it's like

632
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 5: she's like, we're not sleeping, we're just doing drugs and

633
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 5: staying up for forty eight, you know, seventy two hours.

634
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 2: And like, well, and there's a horrible scene where I

635
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: believe they're on a plane and he's beating the shit

636
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: on a cassie in the bedroom and there's all these

637
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: people around, and she says, don't you all see what's happening,

638
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: And one of the other you know, yeah, he was

639
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: young at the time of twenty three years old or something.

640
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: Assistance who was on the plane, who then goes on

641
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: to you know, ultimately resign, but he watches all this happening,

642
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: and nobody does a thing. Nobody does a thing to

643
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: try to intervene and protect her from this ongoing violence

644
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: and horrific abuse.

645
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 5: It's not and you're not saying this, it's not domestic violence.

646
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 5: Domestic violence is happening in this situation, but this is

647
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 5: not a domestic violence case. He is using his power

648
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: and his resources as a person with who controls some

649
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 5: massive corporation to control her, and that is why he

650
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 5: is able to have her sexually every week and to

651
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 5: beat her up and she cannot leave. So already the

652
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 5: ten album deal and the refusal to release any of

653
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: your music already controls her. Plus I beat you up

654
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 5: all the time. I pay for your apartments. So if

655
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 5: you know I will extort you, I am blackmailing you,

656
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 5: because early on he's like, if you don't do everything

657
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 5: that I say, I will release these tapes.

658
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: I mean.

659
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 5: One of the most horrific moments in the trial to

660
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 5: me was when no No Capricorn said that they were arguing.

661
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 5: She was arguing with Ditty about why she didn't have

662
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 5: a boyfriend, and Diddy summoned Cassie into the room and

663
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 5: said sit down and she did, and stand up and

664
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 5: she did. And then he said turn around and she did.

665
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: And he said, y'all, bitches don't want to do that.

666
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 5: That's why you don't have a man. But this is

667
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 5: the level of control and humiliation that he's willing to

668
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 5: dole out to her at any given moment.

669
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: And Toy, what did they do in cross with Cassie

670
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: to try to undermine her character? And you know, there's

671
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: always this question of the perfect victim and the attempt

672
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: to say, you know, she was into it and she

673
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 2: liked it, and she was participating, and all of these

674
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: sorts of what did they do on that front?

675
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, they they exposed the complexity of

676
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 5: trying to adjudicate what happened in a domestic violence situation.

677
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 5: They talked about Cassie doing a lot of drugs. They

678
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 5: talked about Diddy being jealous and being bipolar, and they

679
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 5: talked about Cassie suggesting that she actually liked it. And

680
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 5: they showed text messages of her based saying I can't

681
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 5: wait to freak off, lol, I'm always down for a

682
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: freak off. Now she's consistently saying in general, ways, Yes,

683
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 5: I want to do this.

684
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: I'm so happy about doing this.

685
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 5: She's not saying it in very specific ways, like if

686
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 5: we really wanted to go have dinner, we would be

687
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 5: talking about like, yes, I can't wait to eat the

688
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 5: sushi or whatever it is.

689
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 4: She's not discussing it like that, but you.

690
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 5: Can take it like does he know that she doesn't

691
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 5: want to do this, because when he asks her she

692
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 5: says yes, but she also says if you keep if

693
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 5: you read it critically, she'll be like, yes, but I

694
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 5: want to spend alone time with you, or I can't

695
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 5: wait to be with you. So she wants the alone time.

696
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 5: She loves him, and I think that's another way that

697
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 5: he's coercing and controlling her through love. And she keeps

698
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 5: trying to get to the good part of their relationship,

699
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 5: which is very typical in a DV situation that you

700
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 5: think maybe we can erase or get away from the

701
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 5: bad part and get back to the good part, which

702
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 5: of course is impossible.

703
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 10: And that's why I was asking about the centrality of

704
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 10: the freak offs to the actual charges, because if a

705
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 10: jury comes away and says, all right, look, we've got

706
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 10: these text messages, we think they're weird, but she seemed

707
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 10: to not object, so he didn't like, you know, physically

708
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 10: force her to participate in them. Would there still be

709
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 10: enough evidence of all these other crimes that even if

710
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 10: a jury wants to be like, you know what, she

711
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 10: participated in these willingly she's an adult, that's on her.

712
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 10: But there's all these other obvious crimes. It's extortion and violence.

713
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 10: And it's a great lawyer question. I haven't passed the

714
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 10: bar yet. That's the one thing Kim Kardashian has over me.

715
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 5: But like, here's the thing that the government has to

716
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 5: prove that he conspired.

717
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 4: It's a conspiracy to Rico, it's not a Rico charge.

718
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 5: They have to prove that he conspired to commit two

719
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 5: of this long list of offenses. And we have heard

720
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 5: like eight or nine or ten of them in this trial.

721
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 5: So when they go to sumasion, they're going to be like, look,

722
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: we have proven this, we need two and there's already

723
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 5: a ton and I you know, I named three in

724
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 5: one story.

725
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 4: There's two or three.

726
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 5: There's three alone in the kid Cutty story because he

727
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 5: kidnaps Capricorn within that. So I mean like there's multiple

728
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 5: moments when the jury can be like, ooh, he's hitting

729
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 5: a lot of the predicate offenses that prove that this

730
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 5: is a criminal. Somebody made the point. People keep saying,

731
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 5: how can it be a rico if there's only one person?

732
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 5: Imagine a mobster with no lieutenants. He doesn't trust anybody else,

733
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 5: so he just has underlings. But also, you can unwittingly

734
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 5: participate in a conspiracy.

735
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 4: You don't have to know.

736
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 5: The person who sets up the hotel room for the

737
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 5: freak offs does not have to know what's going to

738
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 5: happen there? Did he does? So he's creating this whole situation,

739
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 5: so he can't have the freak off. He's the planner

740
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 5: that all they have to do. They don't have to

741
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 5: prove that he did it. They just have to prove

742
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 5: that he planned they planned it.

743
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 10: One question I've had, and maybe this hasn't even come

744
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 10: up in the trial, is it seemed like he knew

745
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 10: these charges were coming and made some kind of efforts

746
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 10: to get out of here, get out of dodge. How

747
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 10: did Biddy end up with these charges taking so long

748
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 10: to land? How was it that he didn't flee to

749
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 10: somewhere that doesn't have extradition and has that come up

750
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 10: at all as consciousness of guilt, like attempts that he

751
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 10: he made.

752
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 5: It's a great question they we haven't gotten to the

753
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 5: defense's part of the trial. Perhaps they'll mention that I

754
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 5: suspect that he was unable to leave the country. I

755
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 5: suspect that that the once they raid you and and

756
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 5: they make it clear that they're going to arrest you,

757
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 5: like I believe that his attorneys were negotiating from a

758
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 5: while ago and saying, please don't tell him in the custody. Now,

759
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 5: we promise we won't leave, and like different assurances that

760
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 5: they would not leave, you know, the whole when he

761
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 5: was in prison on bail, he was saying, I'll sell

762
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: my plane. I'm I'm proving to you. But like, look,

763
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 5: when he is arrested, he has gone to New York City,

764
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 5: where he does not live anymore, to effectuate the arrest,

765
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 5: to be there to make it, you know, more more amenable.

766
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 5: Let's say, now, the thing we have learned is that

767
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 5: while he was in New York to allow himself to

768
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 5: be arrested, he was also planning, it seems, on another

769
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 5: freak off the hotel that after they picked him up

770
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 5: and he was surprised that they picked him up when

771
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 5: they did. They thought it was going to be the

772
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: next day or something like that. They go, of course,

773
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 5: they go up in the hotel room like there's a

774
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 5: lot of baby oil and astro glide up in.

775
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 2: Here, like and a bunch of like ecstasy or something

776
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 2: too or.

777
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 4: Do it again like right now like the road.

778
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: Last question for you, tore So Trump has floated he

779
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: might be open to a party, a party part in

780
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: you never know for did he has You know, we've

781
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 2: seen this play on so many times of suddenly, you know, uh,

782
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: someone who's in trouble with the law, suddenly they love

783
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump and they're the biggest Maga fan ever and

784
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: this is the deep state coming to get them or whatever.

785
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Has he made any of those attempts to kind of

786
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 2: appeal directly to Trump in order to you know, try

787
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 2: to be able to get this this pardon.

788
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 5: We don't know, obviously, did he cannot speak publicly right now.

789
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 5: I saw a report that said that he was his group,

790
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 5: his team, his allies were trying to back channel to Trump,

791
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 5: and then of course Trump said he had not heard

792
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 5: anything about that. But you know, we take all of

793
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 5: Trump's words with a grain of salt. I imagine that

794
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 5: it could happen. Trump is a total wild card. He

795
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 5: pardoned NB A Young Boy and Kodak Black. Alice Johnson

796
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 5: may decide, oh, Diddy would be another good one to

797
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 5: bring in.

798
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 4: Some black voters, right.

799
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 5: I mean, it's this bizarre okie doke of like, you know,

800
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 5: we're going to pardon specific individuals while we're taking away

801
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 5: your rights over here. But that's that's the game we're playing.

802
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 5: Trump's a total wild card in this. I don't expect

803
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 5: him to look at it and say, oh, there were

804
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 5: actual problems here, actual miscarriagters of justice. It'll be like,

805
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 5: do you like Diddy or not?

806
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: Right? And how much are you willing to pay me?

807
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 2: And what do I think the political benefit will be?

808
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

809
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean, like the release of Diddy at

810
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 5: this point would be extremely dangerous for a lot of people.

811
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 5: A lot of people would be looking over their shoulder

812
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 5: for quite a long time, myself included. And I'm sure

813
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 5: I'm not top ninety nine on his list, but if

814
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 5: he's petty enough to be making a list, I'm probably

815
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 5: in the top hundred. But Cassie has a lot to

816
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 5: be afraid of. He knows who Nia is. She works

817
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 5: for him, She sat in front of him in the courtroom,

818
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 5: and so she has a lot to be afraid of.

819
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 5: I mean like there's a lot of people who would

820
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 5: be very afraid for.

821
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 11: A long time.

822
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Tori. Tell people where they can find

823
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 2: you and follow your work.

824
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm on a show called truth Talks.

825
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 5: You can find us on YouTube at truth talks dash Live.

826
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 5: I got a subseac culture Fries where we talk about

827
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 5: Diddy and other things.

828
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 4: Follow me on TikTok and yeah, I was on Instagram too.

829
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 10: I was just telling Torre I don't follow many people

830
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 10: on TikTok. He's one of the few that I do.

831
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 10: And so you're in my feet all the time. I

832
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 10: love you, allow you too. Right, you're killing it on there.

833
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 4: You got to get Crystal back.

834
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been slack and I'll get back in the game.

835
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 11: Guys, the chairman, she needs that content.

836
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: Tory. Good to see you, my friend.

837
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 11: Thanks guys, Love you, buddy.

838
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 10: Alexandria Ocazio Cortes has now endorsed a zorhand Mom Donnie

839
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 10: number one on her rank Choice ballot. This comes after

840
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 10: last night you can put up that form. It comes

841
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 10: after last night's New York City mayoral debate. This and

842
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 10: endorsement by Bernie Sanders have been much watched. There have

843
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 10: been a lot of pressure on AOC to get off

844
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 10: the sidelines and get in and endorse Dorehand as he

845
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 10: has been surging and closing to within about eight points

846
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 10: of Andrew Cuomo in the latest race.

847
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 11: Last night.

848
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 10: There probably were not an enormous number of people watching

849
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 10: this debate, so we can overstate its impact. But boy

850
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 10: was it fascinating and it is The entire conversation becomes

851
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 10: just much more interesting when you have a social democratic

852
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 10: voice in their debating pushes everybody else to be like, oh, yeah,

853
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 10: I'm going to do this good thing. I'm going to

854
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 10: do this good thing. I'll do this amazing thing as well.

855
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 10: So let's let's start with Cuomo getting piled on. Should

856
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 10: we do that first?

857
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 3: Yeah?

858
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, because Cuomo as the front runner, is just naturally

859
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 10: going to get piled on.

860
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: And there's plenty of ammunition to work with too.

861
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 10: Right, And also he's Cuomo, so you can pile on

862
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 10: them anyway. So you know, he's facing an investigation by

863
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 10: Trump's DOJ which on the one hand, is a boon

864
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 10: because it rallies Democrats in New York kind of behind him,

865
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 10: because if you're against Trump, then you're objectively a good

866
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 10: thing according to a lot of Democratic voters. On the

867
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 10: other hand, he did a lot of Congress and he

868
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 10: did cover up a bunch of deaths, so this was

869
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 10: a needle to thread for his opponents. Let's let's roll

870
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 10: f one here.

871
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 7: The question is whether or not it's political and whether

872
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 7: or not your congressional testimony was truthful. Were you, now

873
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 7: that you've had time to reflect, involved in producing that

874
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 7: report that under account of those nursing home deaths?

875
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 3: Oh, there was no doubt that my administration produced the

876
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: report and it did not undercount the deaths.

877
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 7: Okay, but you're still saying you were not.

878
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: It's very it's very clear that's the Trump line, the

879
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 3: Maga line, right, because this was during his the Trump reelection. Okay,

880
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 3: the New York reports always counted the number of deaths

881
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: where they occurred in a nursing home or in a hospital. Okay,

882
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 3: now that.

883
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 7: Okay, we have to move on that. We have to

884
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 7: give other people. We'll we'll, I'll have a lot more

885
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 7: time on other subjects.

886
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 9: All right, will you acknowledge the deaths? Okay, I mean

887
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 9: it's a it's a very black and white. Did you

888
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 9: apply to Congress or will you acknowledge the death Fifteen

889
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 9: people died and he still won't answer.

890
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 3: Your wells, all right, here, here's a chance to answer

891
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 3: the question as Melissa presented it. Yes, no, I told

892
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 3: Congress the truth. No, we did not undercount any deaths.

893
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 3: When they are all counted, we're number thirty eight out

894
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: of fifty, which I think shows that compared to what

895
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: other states went through, we had it first and worst,

896
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: and that only twelve states had a lower rate of death.

897
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: We should really be thanking the women and men who

898
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: worked in those.

899
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 7: Okay, very quick, Yes, we will follow up if I

900
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 7: just the question is were you involved in the producing

901
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 7: of that report? It's just he answered no question.

902
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: I was very aware of the report. I spoke to

903
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: it at fresh conferences.

904
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 7: Before answer question about the production of the report. We're

905
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 7: going to not getting an answer by the reports.

906
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 10: To whether or not you were so to refresh people's memory,

907
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 10: Cuomo had a policy where he forced nursing homes to

908
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 10: take COVID positive patients that led to outbreaks and nursing

909
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 10: homes that led to people dying.

910
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 11: When the New York.

911
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 10: State produced a report on that, he the report systematically

912
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 10: undercounted the deaths by saying, well, they didn't actually die

913
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 10: in the nursing home because they got taken out and

914
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 10: died either in an ambulance or in the hospital an

915
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 10: hour later or whatever. And then the question was, well,

916
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 10: were you involved in the fudging of this report? He

917
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 10: told Congress no, And then we get an email that says,

918
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 10: attached to are the governor's edits to this report?

919
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, And one of his staffers said.

920
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, this is Clomo's handwriting in the margins of the report.

921
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 10: The criminal question might turn on whether or not his

922
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 10: denial to Congress was you know, ironclad, or whether he

923
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 10: was saying, I don't as far as I remember, I don't.

924
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 11: I was not involved in that report.

925
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 10: And so there's a question like that you're lying you

926
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 10: do remember, but then how do you prove that somebody

927
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 10: has a memory, Like it's clearly he.

928
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: Lied, right, so I mean, which is like you can

929
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: very much tell in the way he I know, dancing

930
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 2: around and still doesn't have a good answer for this like.

931
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 11: That, were you involved in report. I was aware of

932
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 11: the report.

933
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: There's no question my team was involved in that's not

934
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 2: the question. That's not what we asked.

935
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 11: May be very clear and say nothing clear right.

936
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: And sore On's line on this, you know, when he

937
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: was asked about it, because, like you said, it is

938
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: a bit of a needle to thread for you know,

939
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 2: his opponents who all want to position themselves being vehemently

940
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: anti Trump, especially after Eric Adams's collusion with the Trump regime, etc.

941
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: He was like, listen, he did lie to Congress. That

942
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: being said, I totally Trump pursuing him has everything to

943
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: do with retribution, nothing to do with justice. But yeah,

944
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: he did commit a crime here. He did lie. He

945
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 2: did ultimately lie to Congress. I thought overall, Cuomo, you know,

946
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: he seemed like he seemed kind of rusty and complacent.

947
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: You see this sometimes with politicians who've been in for

948
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: a long time, and you know, they sort of take

949
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: things for granted and maybe don't take their opponents as

950
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: seriously as they should. Like he clearly has a level

951
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: of contempt and derision towards Zoron in particular, and so

952
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: he seemed kind of rusty and off his game in

953
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 2: this debate, and I think that's evidence by that exchange

954
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: where the question that he gets asked is obviously going

955
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 2: to be asked of him, and he's doesn't have really

956
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: prepared a great response. We also had, you know, Cuomo's

957
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: running this very traditional playbook of I have the experience

958
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: and Zoran has. He says that, like you know, he's

959
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: been in government for twenty seven days and he doesn't

960
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 2: know what he's doing, which is this sort of throwback argument,

961
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: you know, play to expertise, although maybe in a may

962
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: oral race it has more salience. I'm not sure, but

963
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: I thought Zoron had a really good way of flipping

964
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 2: this on Cuomo in this debate. Let's go ahead and

965
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: take a listen to that.

966
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 9: The difference between myself and Andrew Cuomo is that my

967
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 9: campaign is not funded by the very billionaires who put

968
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 9: Donald Trump in DC. I don't have to pick up

969
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 9: the phone from Bill Ackman or Ken Langoing. I have

970
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 9: to pick up the phone for the more than twenty

971
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 9: thousand New Yorkers who contributed an average donation of about

972
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 9: eighty dollars to break fundraising records and put our campaign

973
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 9: in second place.

974
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 11: You want to spot that.

975
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Please. You know mister Mandami, he's very good on

976
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: Twitter and with videos, but he actually produces nothing for

977
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 3: him to accuse me of. Lyne's so called President Obama

978
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: a liar and said President Obama was evil. So take

979
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: everything with a grain of salt. Donald Trump would go

980
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 3: through mister Montdommie like a hot knife through butter. He's

981
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 3: been in government twenty seven minutes. He passed three bills.

982
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 3: That's all he's done. He has no experience with Washington,

983
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 3: no experience in New York City. He would be Trump's

984
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 3: the light.

985
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 11: All right, brief response with smam Donny, then we have

986
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 11: to move on.

987
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 9: Look, it's true that I don't have experience with corrupt

988
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 9: Trump billionaires who are funding my campaign. I don't have

989
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 9: experience with party politics and insider consultants. Or I do

990
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 9: have experience, however, with winning four hundred and fifty million

991
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 9: dollars in debt relief for thousands of working class taxi

992
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 9: drivers and actually delivering the working class people.

993
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 2: So I thought I thought he kind of crushed him

994
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: in that exchange.

995
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean it's going to be I guess is

996
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 10: a question partly of like do you want Andrew Cuomo back,

997
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 10: do you want him in your face for the next

998
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 10: four or eight years as mayor?

999
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 11: A lot? You know, is it a thing where Okay,

1000
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 11: a lot of people don't like Woma, but he is

1001
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 11: what you get. I don't know, Well, it's it's hard.

1002
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 11: It's hard to say.

1003
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 10: He's such a known quantity and his father, like his

1004
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 10: camp has been trying to call mom Donnie a NEPO baby,

1005
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 10: but he's a known quantity because his own father was governor,

1006
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 10: his wife was Kennedy. It's like, come on, like, who's

1007
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 10: the who's the He.

1008
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: Is no Mario Cuomo by the way. Yeah, Also, the

1009
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 2: Trump's Delight barn is just a funny way of phrasing that.

1010
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: And look, Clomo is running a playbook that I think,

1011
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: prior to this moment would have worked very easily in

1012
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: New York City, not only with regard to just like

1013
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: he's got the name, people know who he is. You know,

1014
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 2: there is a tendency in New York City politics to

1015
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 2: reach for someone who is sort of like the safe

1016
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: establishment Canadon's. However, Adams ends up winning. Deblasio was a

1017
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: little bit of a break from that, but he's not

1018
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 2: that far out of like the you know, the mold

1019
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 2: in the mainstream whatever. And so this playbook that he's running,

1020
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: I think in any other year would be guaranteed to

1021
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: win him like a thirty point victory. But we first

1022
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: of all, he you know, went through his own scandals

1023
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: and is sort of disgraced in trying to recover his

1024
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: reputation at this point. Second of all, there is a

1025
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: real disgust among Democrats with the establishment Democratic Party that

1026
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: helped to usher in Trump, that did capitulate to Trump

1027
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: in many ways, Eric Adams again being emblematic of that.

1028
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: And so it's more of a question mark now over

1029
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 2: whether or not this traditional playbook, which in any other

1030
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: year likely would have worked, is going to work for

1031
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 2: him this time. And that is also on display in

1032
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 2: the way that they are aggressively attacking Zoron over his

1033
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 2: position on Israel. Obviously, there's a significant Jewish population in

1034
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 2: New York City and they're you know, really important electorally,

1035
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 2: and there are various, you know, relatively organized voting blocks

1036
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 2: that you know, Cuomo in particular, but many other candidates

1037
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: have been trying to appeal to. So there was this

1038
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 2: extraordinary moment at the end where they're doing their quote

1039
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: unquote lightning round and they ask all the candidates, what

1040
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: is the first country you're going to visit once if

1041
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: you get elected mayor of New York City. And so

1042
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: you have them all going down the list, and Zorn

1043
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: gives us answer of I'm not going to visit another country.

1044
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to be here in New York working for

1045
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 2: the people. And unlike any other candidate, they decide to

1046
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: the moderate is to decide to jump in to say, okay, yeah,

1047
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: but would you visit Israel? And then go on this,

1048
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: you know, to dig into like and do you support

1049
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: israel right not only right to exist, but right to

1050
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: exist specifically as a Jewish state. Let's go ahead and

1051
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: take a listen to how that all went down.

1052
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 3: Given the hostility and the anti Semitism that has been

1053
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: shown in New York. I would go to Israel, mister Tilson,

1054
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: where would you go?

1055
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 10: I'd make my fourth trip to Israel, followed by my

1056
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 10: fifth trip to Ukraine, two of our greatest allies fighting

1057
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 10: on the front lines of the global war on terror.

1058
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 9: Mister mom Donnie, I would stay in New York City.

1059
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 9: My plans are to address New Yorkers across the five

1060
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 9: boroughs and focus on Uh.

1061
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 7: Mister mom, Donnie, can I just jump in? Would you

1062
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 7: visit Israel?

1063
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 2: Mayor?

1064
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 9: I will be doing as the mayor. I'll be standing

1065
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 9: up for Jewish New Yorkers, and I'll be meeting them

1066
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 9: wherever they are across the five boroughs, whether that's in

1067
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 9: their synagogues and temples, or at their homes or at

1068
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 9: the subway platform, because ultimately we need to focus on

1069
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 9: delivering on their concerns.

1070
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 7: Just yeso, no, do you believe in a Jewish state

1071
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 7: of Israel?

1072
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 9: I believe Israel has the right to exist as a

1073
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 9: Jewish state, as a state with equal rights.

1074
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 11: Right to exist as a Jewish state.

1075
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 3: And his answer was no, he won't visit Israel.

1076
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 9: I said that that's what he was trying to say. No, no, no,

1077
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 9: unlike unlike directly, I believe every state should be a

1078
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 9: state of equal rights.

1079
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 10: Ryan, your thoughts, well, first of all, the guy that

1080
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 10: wants to go to Israel and Ukraine.

1081
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: I like how they were competing big ever, former charter

1082
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: school guy, billionaire chargers.

1083
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 10: Competing for who could have bigger yellow ribbons, Like I'm

1084
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 10: going out of it. That's been so angry when he

1085
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 10: came out and saw us nobody had a bigger yellow

1086
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 10: ribbon than him.

1087
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: Outrageous. Some stafford got fired over that.

1088
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 10: But what is what's this guy going to Israel and Ukraine?

1089
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 10: Like I had to like check, this is a New

1090
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 10: York City mayoral election, right, what is he going to

1091
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 10: do in Ukraine? Are there are a lot of Ukrainians

1092
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 10: and Russians in New York City?

1093
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1094
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 2: Well, Zoran's answers part, Yeah, I will meet with voters here. Yeah,

1095
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 2: That's what I will do. And then the moderators need

1096
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 2: to jump in.

1097
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 11: What you're saying you won't go, but you go to Israel.

1098
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: It's like can you imagine them going through a checklist

1099
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 2: of every other four and well what about what about Russia?

1100
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 11: To chat?

1101
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 2: What about that? Are you going to Mexico? I mean

1102
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: when when's your trip to Brazil? I mean it's just

1103
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,439
Speaker 2: only for the country. And then the other piece here

1104
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,720
Speaker 2: is Zoran says I think Israel has a right to exist,

1105
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: and well, but what about as a Jewish state? And

1106
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,919
Speaker 2: he refuses to back an explicitly ethno nationalist state and says,

1107
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: I think they should have equal rights. And again I

1108
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: think this playbook, it may well still be effective, right.

1109
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it won't be, But there is a

1110
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: completely frankly racist and caricaturish view of what Jewish voters

1111
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: actually think about Israel and Palestine. And many Jewish voters,

1112
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: by the way, a majority voted for Democrats, a majority

1113
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: are opposed to US continuing to endlessly fund this horrific genocide.

1114
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: Many have been involved in the protests against our government

1115
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: policy visa the Israel. And so you know, the tried

1116
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 2: and true playbook of saying he's not pro Israel enough.

1117
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it will work, maybe it's possible. I'm not saying

1118
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't have any power, but I do think it

1119
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: represents a completely outdated mode of politics that does not

1120
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 2: reckon with the fact that Zorn is getting at there

1121
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: that hey, I'll meet Jewish voters here wherever they are,

1122
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: because guess what, they are complete human beings who have

1123
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: interests separate and apart from whether or not I decide

1124
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: to make a trip to Israel and whatever statements I

1125
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: make about this one foreign country.

1126
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 10: And poll a couple of weeks ago, specifically of Jewish

1127
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 10: voters in New York that found that Cuomo was only

1128
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 10: leading him by eleven points among Jewish voters. Well, and

1129
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 10: that was happening at the time when overall Cuomo was

1130
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 10: leading him by something like sixteen points.

1131
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: Well, there was that poll recently that found AOC beating

1132
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: Schumer by a significant margin among Jewish voters. So this

1133
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: caricaturish view of what you need to say to appeal

1134
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: to this, I mean, it really is a racist view

1135
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: of what you need to say to appeal to this

1136
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: one demographic is completely you know, it is completely outdated

1137
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: and anachronistic.

1138
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 10: And one of those propagandists, a al I forget his

1139
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 10: last name, who always in my Twitter feed when he

1140
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 10: saw that poll showing that twenty percent of Jewish voters

1141
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 10: in New York were supporting Mom Donnie and thirty one

1142
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 10: percent supporting Cuomo, he said, not a single one of

1143
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 10: them is actually Jewish, just like it's an anti Semitic.

1144
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 11: What do you mean, they're not Jewish?

1145
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 10: They're only Jewish if they vote in a New York

1146
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 10: City mayoral election for the candidate that you believe they

1147
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 10: should vote for.

1148
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: Right, that thinking is very common, though, I feel, especially

1149
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: on the right, this thinking of like, well some of

1150
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: these well, Joe.

1151
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 11: Biden, you're not black. You don't support Biden, You're not.

1152
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: We're not black. But there is this view of like, oh, well,

1153
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 2: the you know, people who are culturally Jewish or who

1154
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: are more like secular Jewish or like reform Jewish, like

1155
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 2: they don't really count. That doesn't really count. The only

1156
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 2: ones that count are the ones that I say count

1157
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: or that uphold that you know, you know, lockstep zion

1158
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: is pro Israel view.

1159
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 10: But if you go too far right and it's an

1160
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 10: anti Zionist Orthodox, do they count.

1161
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: No county, they don't count either. So yeah, I mean

1162
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 2: it was really I think a fascinating debate all around,

1163
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: Like you said, Lisav Lursus about how many people are

1164
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 2: gonna watch it, although you will see that the Twitter

1165
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: clips floating around. But I think the dynamics were good

1166
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: for zarn and that he handled himself very well. Cuomo

1167
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: hand handled himself badly, and Cuomo was taken fire from

1168
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: from absolutely everybody on the stage, which is also you know,

1169
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 2: a difficult position to do, and that he did not

1170
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 2: handle all that well. So AOC's and now do you

1171
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: think that moves the needle? Do you think she got

1172
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 2: it at the right time? I know people are saying

1173
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: she should have come out earlier and really been there

1174
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 2: on the ground trying to build name recognition for him,

1175
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: and now basically he's sort of coalesced aled AOC voters,

1176
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: so it may not make that much of a difference.

1177
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:26,919
Speaker 11: Earlier is probably better.

1178
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 10: The best argument for this one is that it maximizes

1179
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 10: public attention to the endorsement. You know, if she does

1180
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 10: it right away, you know, we had him on the

1181
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 10: program very early.

1182
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: Right in the race, and it's like people didn't really care.

1183
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 11: So people didn't really care, whre's this guy?

1184
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 10: Right, Like, no, this guy's really cool. You're going to

1185
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 10: see him interesting. And so if she did it, then

1186
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 10: it's like, man, whenever he and then he would have

1187
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 10: been known as the AOC endorsed candidate. But he's already

1188
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 10: known as the DSA candidate. So there's a ton of

1189
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 10: media attention now around the fact that she just endorsed

1190
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 10: him and he did very well on that debate and

1191
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 10: Cuomo did poorly, so it's combining to create some energy.

1192
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 10: It may be a case I don't know, but it

1193
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 10: may be a case where Waiting ended up on net

1194
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 10: being better than going early, because it's almost never better

1195
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 10: now if she would start early and do a unified

1196
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 10: thing like We're going to raise enormous amounts of money

1197
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 10: from you for you from my email list, and I'm

1198
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 10: I'm going to rally with you everywhere.

1199
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 11: That's better.

1200
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 10: But that was probably never in the cards, although, which

1201
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 10: which is an interesting question in its own right why

1202
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 10: that wouldn't have.

1203
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 11: Been in the cards.

1204
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: She's very cause, I mean, I also think this is

1205
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: kind of an outdated mode of thinking. I'm being so

1206
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: cautious of like when you give your endorsement too.

1207
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 11: And from endorses any koop right away.

1208
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: Exactly right, and if they don't win, then he just

1209
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 2: wants someone else, you know.

1210
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 11: It's like, oh, it was there, fould if I didn't

1211
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 11: endorse her.

1212
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I do think that that is also kind

1213
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: of an outdated playbook. And then the other question is

1214
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: whether Bernie is going to ultimately get involved here as well.

1215
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 2: Is possible he was sort of waiting for AOC to

1216
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 2: jump in since she is actually in New York City

1217
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 2: and I don't know, So we'll see how all of

1218
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: those things play out. But you know, the polls have

1219
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 2: been tightening. He has definitely outperformed what anyone's I think,

1220
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: including his own team, potentially expectations of where this race

1221
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: would ultimately be. And you know, in the final stretch

1222
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 2: here as people who are lower information voters who weren't

1223
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: tuned in before start to tune in, what are the

1224
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: sort of messages that they're hearing and what is appealing

1225
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 2: to them at this point in time. It's I think

1226
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 2: important from a national Democratic Party conversation because there is

1227
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: this big question about where the Democratic base is in,

1228
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: how things are shifting within the coalition, what types of

1229
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: candidates they're looking for, what sorts of things may be

1230
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 2: on the table that previously weren't on the table, And

1231
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: this could be a kind of canary in the coal

1232
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 2: mine for where things are are hadding nationally as well.

1233
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 2: So that's why it's interesting not to mention it's a

1234
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: giant city and important and all that.

1235
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, Cuomo was still the odds on favorite. The ballots

1236
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 10: go out, I think you're fourteenth. The actual election is

1237
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 10: twenty fourth, twenty fourth or twenty six. Don't want to

1238
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 10: give any misinformation. Just google that you're yourself. Yeah, we'll

1239
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 10: see And anyway, don't forget that for the rest of

1240
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 10: this month, one month free if you go to Breakingpoints

1241
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 10: dot com.

1242
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: You're right.

1243
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 11: The twenty fourth BP free is the promo code ten dollars.

1244
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 11: This will this gets you into the.

1245
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 10: Ten dollars a month club, which you know, like I

1246
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 10: was saying yesterday, this is it's Breaking Points on layaway.

1247
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: That's right.

1248
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 11: I won't even notice it.

1249
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 10: You will notice it every time you're likeugh, ten more dollars.

1250
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 10: That's why I prefer to do the annual.

1251
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 2: Actually just get it done and that is not just

1252
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 2: like constantly.

1253
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 11: Reminding me of losing money.

1254
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 10: And we give most of this away for free, so

1255
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 10: we understand that you know, you don't have a lot

1256
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 10: of incentives to support it, but we appreciate it that

1257
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 10: you do. This is, you know, an expensive endeavor to

1258
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 10: put together.

1259
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, speaking of the expansion to the show, and

1260
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 2: your support will be here for the Friday show tomorrow.

1261
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 2: So everybody have a great day and we will see

1262
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 2: you then.