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Speaker 1: Is there anything you learned about David after going through this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're still in it.

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Speaker 2: You're versed in this world.

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Speaker 3: It's not until you dramatize the events that you realize, Oh,

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Speaker 3: he never had to write any of this stuff, and

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Speaker 3: the fact that he did is a huge part of

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Speaker 3: what makes him relatable and great. And so it just

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Speaker 3: reminds me of like God can use it all. And

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Speaker 3: I think that that is the hero's journey. And I

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Speaker 3: think we all have a hero's journey to live, and

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Speaker 3: I think our fear keeps us from living that hero's journey.

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Speaker 1: I'm Raven Arroyo. Welcome to Arroyo Grande. All of us

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Speaker 1: want to live a hero's journey, but how do you

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Speaker 1: do that? The hero's journey is really derived from that

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Speaker 1: story of David and Goliath in the West. Every classic

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Speaker 1: story proceeds from there. Henry the Fifth facing the French,

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Speaker 1: Peter Pan versus Hook, and you versus whoever you're fighting.

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Speaker 1: This week, director John Irwin has created an epic new series,

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Speaker 1: The House of David, covering the life of King David

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime. And they'll tell us in moments how

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Speaker 1: he discovered the hero's journey in his own life and

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Speaker 1: how you can too. By the way, go subscribe to

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Speaker 1: the show right now, Go to YouTube or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcast. Turn on notifications. I don't want you

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Speaker 1: missing an episode. Okay, first, a little free flow. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about heroes this week. What makes a hero?

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Speaker 1: Certainly not spandex and a cape, I mean military veterans

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Speaker 1: come to mind. There are political heroes and of course

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Speaker 1: Madam Webb, though that's barely a hero. And to me,

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Speaker 1: heroes are the people who fulfill their duty and don't

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Speaker 1: yearn for credit. There was a story this week that

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Speaker 1: I'll bet most of you missed. You remember the Matrix

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Speaker 1: series actress Carrie Ann Moss. She played Trinity opposite Keanu

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Speaker 1: Reeves in all of those films. She told The Independent

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Speaker 1: quote after the Matrix was such a big deal. I

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Speaker 1: took a big, big break to have children and to

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Speaker 1: be with them now. It's easy to make that kind

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Speaker 1: of decision when nothing's happening, But when big, worldly offers

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Speaker 1: are being thrust upon you, it's hard to turn away.

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Speaker 1: It's like Lizo at an ozempic house party, hard to

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Speaker 1: turn away, Like Blake Lively at her lawyer's office. Let's

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Speaker 1: file one more complaint against that Baldoni guy. Very hard

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Speaker 1: to turn away. The truth is, I can tell you

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Speaker 1: there is no more heroic path than starting a family

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Speaker 1: and nourishing the young lives and trusted to you, you

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Speaker 1: can't do more important work. Well, how do you know that, Raymond?

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Speaker 1: I do have three grown kids, and I know it

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Speaker 1: because I've lived with one of those heroes for thirty years.

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Speaker 1: My wife gave up her career to be fully present

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Speaker 1: to our kids, and now they're grown. Her investment is obvious.

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Speaker 1: If you want to know why society is in trouble,

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Speaker 1: why illiteracy is on the rise, why kids are less connected,

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Speaker 1: less communicative, today, take me to the homes of those kids,

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Speaker 1: and I'll show you the reason. Time spent with parents.

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Speaker 1: It is hugely determinative in the life of a child.

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Speaker 1: The Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, in a twenty

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Speaker 1: fourteen study, found that an attached parent helped kids regulate

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Speaker 1: their emotions and form healthy relationships later in life. The

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Speaker 1: National Institute of Health and Human Development tracked kids from

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Speaker 1: birth to adolescents. Guess what, The kids with more involved

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Speaker 1: parents were less likely to engage in drug use. Or

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Speaker 1: skip school, and an engaged parent affects a child's ability

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Speaker 1: to read, healthy outcomes, empathy, and so much more time

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Speaker 1: spent with parents, Heroic moms and dads who take the

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Speaker 1: time not only to make a new life, but love

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Speaker 1: that life enough to show up and raise it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's hugely important. Carrie Anne Moss said something else here.

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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to this. She said, I

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Speaker 1: remember were being torn, having a little twinge like, gosh,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting offered such great things, that would be such

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Speaker 1: a huge deal. And I was holding my baby in

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Speaker 1: my arms, thinking at the end of my life, will

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Speaker 1: it matter to me that I have another movie on

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Speaker 1: my resume or will it matter to me that I

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Speaker 1: held my baby? I instantly thought, no, it was a

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Speaker 1: no brainer, and I'm so glad I did that. I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad I don't have that regret. Boy, is that

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Speaker 1: a loaded sentence. Listen to that. There are so many

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Speaker 1: parents I know, and when you're a parent looking back,

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Speaker 1: you can say that sort of thing. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: resist the allure of the world, and those allurements are

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Speaker 1: a hell of a lot easier than walking the floors

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Speaker 1: at night. Doctor visits up, parent teachers conferences, weekend practices.

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Speaker 1: That is hard work working out of the home a

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Speaker 1: heck of a lot easier with breaks and vacation time.

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Speaker 1: Moss is right, at the end of your life, no

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Speaker 1: one will care about another movie on your resume, but

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Speaker 1: your kids might, especially if no one was there for them.

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Speaker 1: I've met so many people who have regrets. Incredible careers, fame,

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Speaker 1: all the attention, but they're riddled with regrets. The hero's

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Speaker 1: path is not the easy or the glitzy one, but

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Speaker 1: the sacrificial one, and it's the most long lasting because

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Speaker 1: you are literally shaping the future of your own family

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Speaker 1: and countless others. How many alleged heroes can say that.

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Speaker 1: There's a movie opening this weekend that desperately wants to

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Speaker 1: cash in on its venerable heritage while running from it.

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Speaker 1: It's the live action snow White, and it has more

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Speaker 1: identity problems than a malfunctioning magic mirror. Rachel Zegler, who

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Speaker 1: plays snow White in the movie, is a Latina, and

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Speaker 1: she said years ago that she's playing the role as

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Speaker 1: a Latina princess. The new movie explains snow White's name

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Speaker 1: away by mentioning that the lead character survived a snowstorm.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad it wasn't a power failure. But with this

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Speaker 1: new backstory, we are suddenly in an entirely new fairy tale,

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Speaker 1: and it's neither the Brothers Grims nor Disney's Why not

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Speaker 1: just tell a story with a Latina heroin? Was the

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Speaker 1: Encountrascript not available? Surely Lynn Manuel Miranda could append a

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Speaker 1: new song or two.

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Speaker 2: Or did they.

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Speaker 1: Fear that no one would come to a live action

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Speaker 1: version of that movie? I guess it's easier to sell

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Speaker 1: snow White the brand since it goes back to nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty seven, even as the filmmakers try to escape What

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Speaker 1: made the story so compelling and enduring? What do kids

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Speaker 1: love about the original movie? What is it the dwarves, sleepy, dopey,

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Speaker 1: Doc and Tito? Well, this new live action version originally

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Speaker 1: featured snow White and the Seven Multicultural People, a diverse

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Speaker 1: collection of actors living in the woods together. I guess

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Speaker 1: whatever it took to get away from mentioning those dwarves.

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Speaker 1: But following an angry reaction from the public and protests

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Speaker 1: from actors who were members of the Dwarfism community, Disney backtracked.

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Speaker 1: They opted for CGI dwarves and they're animated in a

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Speaker 1: live action movie. Hi Ho, Hi ho. We're still faith

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Speaker 1: you know. But don't worry. The dwarves are still not

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Speaker 1: referenced in the title. Just Noo White or Blanca Nieves

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Speaker 1: or whoever the character is now. Rachel Zegler ran into

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Speaker 1: trouble when she gave her gen z opinion of the musty,

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Speaker 1: outdated character that she was contracted by Disney to play

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Speaker 1: a few years ago.

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Speaker 2: Watch this. It's no longer nineteen thirty seven. That is

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Speaker 2: not going to be vived by the Prince. He's not

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Speaker 2: going to be.

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Speaker 1: Saved for the Prince.

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Speaker 2: And she's not going to be dreaming about true love.

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Speaker 3: She's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be.

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Speaker 1: So if she's not dreaming of true love and she's

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Speaker 1: not going to be saved by the prince, why the

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Speaker 1: hell are they doing a live action movie called Disney's

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Speaker 1: snow White. It's a double lie. The story does not

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Speaker 1: conform to the Disney masterpiece. And you have a new

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Speaker 1: character called snow White who bears no trace of the

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Speaker 1: brothers grim snow White except for the costume that was Disney's.

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Speaker 1: And since the Prince isn't going to savor. They've cut

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Speaker 1: that old Someday My Prince will Come song, replacing it

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Speaker 1: with something called waiting on a Wish. Like most people,

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Speaker 1: I'll be waiting for the credits, or maybe for a refund.

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Speaker 1: The movie is expected to be one of the worst

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Speaker 1: openings for Disney this year. And as I've said many times,

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Speaker 1: when the main plot point is that the evil Queen

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Speaker 1: is jealous because snow White is the fairest of them all,

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Speaker 1: it's best not to cast wonder Woman as that envious queen.

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Speaker 1: You may as well invert the whole storyline and have

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Speaker 1: snow White try to kill the knockout queen, because Galgadot

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Speaker 1: is definitely the fairest of this duo, and it's pain

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Speaker 1: fully obvious to anyone watching that magic Mirror is lying

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Speaker 1: to your Gal. Go get a refund. The other day,

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Speaker 1: Disney hosted a scaled back premiere, trying to cut their

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Speaker 1: losses by keeping the press off the red carpet. They

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Speaker 1: didn't want bothersome media asking the stars uncomfortable questions like

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Speaker 1: why did you destroy the storyline and why do you

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Speaker 1: hate half the audience? Zegler made some political comments earlier

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Speaker 1: this year, saying that half of America should have no

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Speaker 1: peace go figure. So they staged these painful shots of

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Speaker 1: little girls dressed as snow White meeting with the stars

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Speaker 1: while the Disney cameras recorded the forced cuteness. It all

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Speaker 1: went down like a poisoned apple. I love the pr

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Speaker 1: lady during her own rendition of the evil Queen, barking

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Speaker 1: out orders to the kids and Zegler here, look, Disney

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Speaker 1: needs to retire this whole live action routine. Whether The

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Speaker 1: Lion King, Pinocchio, Beauty and the Beast, these live action

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Speaker 1: movies are mostly CGI, which is digital animation with a

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Speaker 1: handful of actors in front of green screens. With the

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Speaker 1: unmatchable original animated classic, this new film feels like the others,

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Speaker 1: another money grabbed by a company that has run out

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Speaker 1: of ideas. The live action snow White belongs not in

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Speaker 1: a cineplex but in a nice, contemporary glass coffin. And

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Speaker 1: let's hope Zegler is right and no print shows up

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Speaker 1: to save this snow Show. Now to our deep dive.

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Speaker 1: John Irwin is the director and producer responsible for films

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Speaker 1: like I Can Only Imagine, Jesus Revolution and American Underdog.

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Speaker 1: His latest project is House of David and epicrytelling of

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Speaker 1: King David's life. It's been topping the viewing charts at

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime. And I talked to him about the series

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Speaker 1: and how he found the hero's journey in his own life.

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Speaker 1: Here's John over One. Tell me how being a cameraman

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Speaker 1: in Birmingham.

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Speaker 2: I lived at Birmingham, Alabama. I know it well.

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Speaker 1: And I also know the red wave obsession will Auburn,

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Speaker 1: the Auburn Alabama thing, which I'm not getting into.

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Speaker 2: Roletide. I know you're a boy, true.

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Speaker 1: True, How did that? Your father was also a broadcaster.

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Speaker 1: But tell me about how being homeschooled. Yeah, and a

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Speaker 1: cameraman for sports.

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Speaker 2: Events trained you for this. Well.

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Speaker 3: The reason I say rollside is because when I was

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Speaker 3: fifteen years old at the University of Alabama, which I

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Speaker 3: lived about forty five minutes away from, a cameraman got

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Speaker 3: sick about three hours before the kickoff to a game

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Speaker 3: and I was apprenticing for a cameraman in my church

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Speaker 3: Carriers Tripod and he called me and he said, get

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Speaker 3: over here right now. Don't tell anybody you've never done

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Speaker 3: this before. But I told him I knew a guy,

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Speaker 3: they're desperate, get over here right now. And that was

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Speaker 3: my way into Filmington. And I had the time of

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Speaker 3: my life. I was a homeschooled kid, and I had

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Speaker 3: never even seen a camera that big. I could zoom

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Speaker 3: into a quarter of the moon. So I'm just zooming

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Speaker 3: the camera in and.

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Speaker 2: Out of the moon.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they were thinking of in the

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Speaker 3: truck and I and I legitimately had the time of

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Speaker 3: my life and knew that I had sort of met

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Speaker 3: my my career obsession. And and you know, I had

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Speaker 3: the great privilege of a year later, my dad bought

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Speaker 3: me a camera with money he didn't quite have.

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Speaker 2: We went to Israel with.

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Speaker 3: A camera I had no idea how to use to

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Speaker 3: do a little walk and talk documentary, and these stories

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Speaker 3: just came to life in a whole new way.

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Speaker 2: It was my first time to really travel internationally.

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Speaker 3: And when you're when you're in the States, you don't

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Speaker 3: realize that, you know, the America is an experiment, and

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Speaker 3: it's relatively young on the on the global stage. And

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Speaker 3: so when you go to a place like Jerusalem, right

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Speaker 3: you just feel the energy of thousands of years of

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Speaker 3: story and and I felt that, and I went to

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Speaker 3: King David's tomb, and the obsession with what would become

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Speaker 3: House of David started right there.

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Speaker 2: But what I had was the ability.

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Speaker 3: And what I would recommend to anyone is is uh.

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Speaker 3: You know, Malcolm Gladwell calls it the ten thousand hour

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Speaker 3: rule of just the time it takes to hone your

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Speaker 3: craft and celebrating that time of learning and and.

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Speaker 2: UH and learning to do what you do.

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Speaker 3: And I was, I just had the privilege of starting

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Speaker 3: that journey very very early.

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Speaker 2: And H and I'm grateful. And what was your father's influence.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he was a broadcaster, broadcaster, he was a

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Speaker 3: radio host it and then a two time state senator at Alabama.

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Speaker 3: But he was a fifty thousand watt station called WDJC.

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Speaker 2: He was in talk radio.

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Speaker 3: So before I was ten years old, I would I

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Speaker 3: was sitting behind a mixer at his radio station helping

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Speaker 3: and H and and he's you know what I love

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Speaker 3: about my dad first and foremost is he's a He's

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Speaker 3: a just a dreamer. And he said when he bought

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Speaker 3: me that camera, he said, dream bowld, dream big, dream

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Speaker 3: of the impossible.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes you know, you just have to you.

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Speaker 3: Have to have the audacity to believe in what's possible.

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Speaker 3: And and I learned that from him, and I love

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Speaker 3: him and and he's he's our biggest fan and and

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Speaker 3: uh and in the beginning of my journey.

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Speaker 1: And then and then you worked for a time with

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Speaker 1: Alex Kendrick Courageous.

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Speaker 2: So I did. I.

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Speaker 3: We were My brother and I were music video directors

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Speaker 3: at the time, and we were winning in Nashville.

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Speaker 2: And you do a bunch of them. Yeah, I started

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Speaker 2: with my.

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Speaker 3: W Smith and Amy Grant and uh and but it

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Speaker 3: was a it was a career at that point. And

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Speaker 3: I went to direct second unit on a movie for

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Speaker 3: Alex Kendrick Stephen and Alex, who are wonderful guys uh

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Speaker 3: called courageous. I went into help them with a camera

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Speaker 3: they wanted to use, called the Red One, and then

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Speaker 3: also to direct their action sequences. They were making movies

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Speaker 3: primarily with church volunteers.

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Speaker 2: It was a real Cinderella story.

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Speaker 3: Well, they wanted to do a police drama with action

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Speaker 3: sequences evolving cars. You should never combine this ever with

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Speaker 3: church volunteers. People will die and I'll be a bummer

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Speaker 3: of a Sunday and so uh and so I went

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Speaker 3: in with a smaller team of professionals to do the

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Speaker 3: stunt work and action sequences in that movie.

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Speaker 2: And Alex asked me, he.

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Speaker 3: Said, right off the bat, as Southern Baptist as he is,

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Speaker 3: he said, you know what's your purpose and the purpose

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Speaker 3: of your work? And I could not answer the question,

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Speaker 3: couldn't stop thinking about the question. So that was really

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Speaker 3: a moment where my career fused with a life's calling.

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Speaker 2: And how did you answer it?

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Speaker 3: He started, I mean, yeah, it's a great question of like,

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Speaker 3: I'm an entertainer first and foremost, that's my job, but

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Speaker 3: the idea to tell stories that that that could be

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Speaker 3: life changing to other people and to jump off the

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Speaker 3: cliff of instead of being like I joked around at

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Speaker 3: the time, I was like the Han Solo of Christianity,

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Speaker 3: like if you have a ship or if you if

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Speaker 3: you have money, I've got a ship off liue somewhere.

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Speaker 2: The rest is your problem.

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Speaker 3: And that led to to making independent films and raising

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Speaker 3: money for them, very scary transition, and and then you know,

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Speaker 3: each film built on the last, and then it was

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Speaker 3: I can only imagine was the breakout, and.

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Speaker 1: Then and Jesus Revolution and on and on and on

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Speaker 1: and you work with your brother Andrew. Yeah, what does

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Speaker 1: Andrew bring to the game.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a oh man, a lot. It's it's

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Speaker 3: it's a great question. And you know it started with

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Speaker 3: Andy and I as brothers, and then it's now grown

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Speaker 3: to this group of filmmakers, uh that you know. John Gunn,

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Speaker 3: who's here direct co directed this, has written. We we

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Speaker 3: co wrote five movies together, including Jesus Revolution and H

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Speaker 3: and obviously Dallas Jenkins with the Chosen. Brit McCorkle, who

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Speaker 3: co directed Jesus Revolution with me, is now co directing,

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Speaker 3: uh the sequel that I can only imagine with my

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Speaker 3: brother right now. So it's become this group of filmmakers

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Speaker 3: at this cool moment, unprecedented moment in time in our industry.

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Speaker 3: And Andy is He's great with the human element, as

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Speaker 3: is John Gunn. He's great with actors, He's great with

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Speaker 3: the emotion of a scene. And I'm I'm both a

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Speaker 3: writer and then also a very sort of technical filmmaker,

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Speaker 3: and so I think a lot of times, you know,

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Speaker 3: film at it's in its nature is it's a symphony

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Speaker 3: of art, and it's all these art forms bundled together.

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Speaker 3: So it really is collaborative at its heart, and when

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Speaker 3: you embrace that, you can do so much more than

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Speaker 3: you could ever do alone. And so that collaboration started

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Speaker 3: with Andy and I and has now grown out to

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Speaker 3: this group of filmmakers. It's a really cool moment.

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Speaker 2: You've got all these Irwin adoptees.

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Speaker 3: Right, I don't know whose name would be on the

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Speaker 3: on the mask, but we've all done great work independently.

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Speaker 3: But when we do it together, there's just a magic

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Speaker 3: to what we can achieve.

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Speaker 2: And so if you think.

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Speaker 3: About you know, right now I'm busy making House of David.

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Speaker 2: My brother's working on the sequel to to.

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Speaker 3: I can only imagine Dallas Jenkins is going into the big,

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Speaker 3: the big season six of The Chosen, and it's just

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Speaker 3: amazing to see all that's happening. It really feels like

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Speaker 3: an unprecedented moment in an industry.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about David.

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Speaker 1: David is obviously an archetype.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: For I know you're a big fan of the hero patology,

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the hero's jury.

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Speaker 1: Which you know he went off the here and there,

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Speaker 1: but of course the core idea a good one. Tell

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Speaker 1: me how David is the archetype for that reliant and

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Speaker 1: the chos.

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Speaker 3: I feel like David is the origin of the origin

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Speaker 3: stories in the sense that I love I'm a sucker

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Speaker 3: for Lord of the Rings Star Wars.

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Speaker 2: One of George Lucas's.

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Speaker 3: Great influences when he made Star Wars was this book

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Speaker 3: Here with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. The concept

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Speaker 3: of that book is that there's these mythic archetypes that

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Speaker 3: are common in a bunch of stories. I've thought a

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Speaker 3: lot about why do we need these stories, these heroes, journeys,

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Speaker 3: these destiny stories.

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Speaker 2: Why do it?

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Speaker 3: And I think it's we're wired to need a savior,

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Speaker 3: Like in our soul we are wired for a savior.

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Speaker 2: And I think we're also wired to crave.

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Speaker 3: Purpose and meaning to life in a way that we

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Speaker 3: have a destiny and a role to play in something

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Speaker 3: meaningful that's bigger than we are.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's why we're drawn to these stories.

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Speaker 3: And so, which George Lucas credits the success of Star

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Speaker 3: Wars to a lot of the archetypes in Star Wars

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Speaker 3: are those mythic archetypes tapping into those And so if

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Speaker 3: you watch House of David, you know David himself. This

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Speaker 3: is the one of the original or one of the

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Speaker 3: original hero's journeys boy chosen to be king. And if

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Speaker 3: you look at like the Prophet Samuel played by the

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Speaker 3: Great Stephen Lange, he's very much in the Gandolf.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was an archetype thing. And he's even got.

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Speaker 1: The beard, flowing white rocks, and the routine and the

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Speaker 1: sword play, which I don't want to ruin for.

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Speaker 2: Any of you, but it's all there. It's all there.

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Speaker 3: And so if you love these type of stories, I

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Speaker 3: think whether or not you really know much of the

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Speaker 3: Bible or not, I think a lot of people know

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Speaker 3: the term David and Goliath as synonymous with the underdog,

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Speaker 3: but they don't know the story. And so I think

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Speaker 3: you'll find it very familiar. Even if you don't know

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Speaker 3: anything about the story.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of the backstory that you didn't know, the origin,

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Speaker 1: stuff you've forgotten about or didn't never knew.

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Speaker 2: Correct, tell me what Drew.

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Speaker 1: John Irwin to this David character. He's a complex character character.

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Speaker 1: You know, the boy David's an easy one.

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Speaker 2: Embrace some love. Yeah, he becomes king.

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Speaker 3: I think that's you know, well, here's what I find

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Speaker 3: interesting about it. There's a line where Stephen Lang says

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Speaker 3: to Michael in the series Your who plays David.

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Speaker 2: He says, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, there's great passions that rage in you, and you're

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Speaker 3: this will be your blessing and this will be your

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Speaker 3: curse and basically the greatest war will be within So David,

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Speaker 3: I find these personalities that can accomplish great things. They

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Speaker 3: are equal into the mistakes that they can make. You know,

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Speaker 3: and this is trapped and in a person. So I,

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Speaker 3: as a filmmaker, I find that very interesting.

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Speaker 2: Why is this David different?

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Speaker 1: And why should people care about a king that lived

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars of years ago.

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Speaker 3: We know what's interesting is they say, first of all,

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Speaker 3: the stories are relatable and incredible.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason I tell the story.

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Speaker 3: I remember when Amazon executives first read the scripts, They're like,

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Speaker 3: these scripts are really good.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, it's based off a best seller. You should

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Speaker 2: check it out.

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Speaker 3: And so there's a reason that these stories echo through

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Speaker 3: time and the idea the timelessness of this person's one

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Speaker 3: of my favorite bands for King and Country. They just

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Speaker 3: did a cover of the U two song Psalm forty

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Speaker 3: year old song three thousand year old lyrics, and it

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Speaker 3: just shows you how enduring this character. You know, one

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Speaker 3: of the most famous kings who ever lived. His one

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Speaker 3: square mile city Jerusalem has has defined much of human history.

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Speaker 3: We count time by events that happen in that region,

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Speaker 3: and I think that the story is just incredibly relatable

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Speaker 3: and epic in every way. And the thing I find

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Speaker 3: most about that I was probably drawn to is the

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Speaker 3: authenticity and honesty of the Psalms. Like history is written

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Speaker 3: by the victor. David was a king. We never had

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Speaker 3: to know about his mistakes, he could have cleansed his

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Speaker 3: never had to know that Bathsheba was your eyes wife.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that this king was writing these authentically

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Speaker 3: honest human songs and saying sing this to.

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Speaker 2: The people is unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's his quest for the heart of

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Speaker 3: God that I find most interesting.

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Speaker 2: Despite his flaws. I think the further you go in life,

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Speaker 2: you know, you.

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Speaker 3: Just make mistakes and you and I think so many

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Speaker 3: of us identify with the idea that either I'm I'm

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Speaker 3: unqualified to serve God because I'm not good enough, or

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Speaker 3: I'm disqualified because it's something that I've done. Like we

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Speaker 3: wrestle with those things. I know, those are relatable to me,

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Speaker 3: and I love telling the story of this person who

437
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 3: made some epic accomplishments and epic blunders, but found his

438
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 3: way back to God every time and kept singing through

439
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: it all.

440
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: What people don't realize I was in the theater before this,

441
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: and when you play a role, when you're immersed in

442
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,959
Speaker 1: a character that existed like this, you usually learn something

443
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: from them that you did nix you didn't see at

444
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: first reading or even after an obsession. Is there anything

445
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: you learned about David after going through this? I mean,

446
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: I know you're still in it. You're a worst in

447
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: this world.

448
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 3: I think the idea of his almost fearless honesty.

449
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: Is the reason why.

450
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 3: I mean, only about fifteen percent of the psalms are

451
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: God is great and life is great. The rest are

452
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: I am struggling, you know, help me? And the range

453
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 3: of human emotions are represented in this person's writings, and

454
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: I think it's not until you dramatize the events that

455
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 3: you realize, Oh, he never had to write any of

456
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 3: this stuff, and the fact that he did is a

457
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: huge part of what makes him.

458
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: Relatable and great.

459
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 3: And so it just reminds me of like God can

460
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: use it all. You know, Solomon, who dedicated to always

461
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: see the bookkends out of the whole saga. If I

462
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: were to be able to tell the whole saga of

463
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 3: these two you know kids basically teenagers crying out to God,

464
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: one obscure in the hills of Bethlehem, the other on

465
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: the Temple mount, you know, doing what his father couldn't

466
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: do and beckoning God to earth at the Temple. And

467
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 3: and and you know, Solomon was best Shiva's son, son

468
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: of David's worst mistake. And yet God can use it

469
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 3: all and redeem it all. And David kept singing through

470
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: it all. And that is a lesson for me.

471
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: You know, what's the difference between doing and I know,

472
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: there's a big difference between doing a feature, oh man,

473
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: and doing this television full immersion. And I imagine you

474
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: want to go through the whole saga. I mean, it

475
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: is the house of David, not the child Again, I I.

476
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: The power of our unified voice as believers is what

477
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: affords us this moment to do an Amazon Prime Global

478
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: original and have creative control. And so my hope is

479
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 3: that the series does well enough that we can tell

480
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 3: the whole story, because which would be a multi season

481
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: epic that we've already mapped out. But I think that

482
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: television is my first first foray into television.

483
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: You know, I do future films.

484
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: It is I would say five times the work, but

485
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: probably ten times is fulfilling. Like it's just the amount

486
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: of story that you can tell is so unbelievable. It's

487
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: also tons of work. But I think that's the reason

488
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: why there's not been a definitive David movie. It's too

489
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: his life is an odyssey. It's too much story to

490
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: be crammed into a movie. This is the treatment the

491
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: story deserves, I think, which is a is a you know,

492
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: hours and hours of exploration keeping epic.

493
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 2: I mean, this is big and very intimate.

494
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you a full That's.

495
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: Why I wanted that. I'm glad you said that.

496
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: I that's why I wanted to partner with John Gunn

497
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 3: primarily on the project, because he's so human in his storytelling,

498
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,959
Speaker 3: and he strived for that level of authenticity.

499
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: I love scope and scale, so I.

500
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 3: Sort of wanted that fusion and the balance, and it is.

501
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: It's it's epic, authentic, intimate stories and and and it's

502
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: everything I love about a great TV series, or you know,

503
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: it's really a love letter to like the original Fellowship

504
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: of the Ring movie in the way they made it

505
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: and they went out on the land and did it

506
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 3: for real and or braveheart, I think, and so like

507
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 3: an older.

508
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: Way of making it.

509
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought I was going to ask you

510
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: this later. What's the contribution of Mel Gibson in this

511
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: faith space opening this up and kind of setting the benchmark.

512
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: You know, I did the first interview on the set

513
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: of The Passion you were.

514
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: Seeing a rough.

515
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: With three thousand pastors in Florida and being just blown away.

516
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 3: I think Mel is one of the great masters of

517
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: the craft of film masters. Any interaction I've had with him,

518
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: he will talk your ear off about the craft of film,

519
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: and I find it to be immediately applicable and deeply helpful.

520
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 3: And I find him to be one of the most candid,

521
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 3: authentic creators I've ever had the privilege of interacting with.

522
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: And I think The Passion is one of the great

523
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 3: works of art in the in the history of our business,

524
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: and the leap he took for that movie was an

525
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 3: extraordinary act of faith. And what do they say if

526
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 3: you stand on the shoulders if you see clearly, you

527
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 3: stand on the shoulders of giants. One of these I

528
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: love about film history overall is it's like layer upon

529
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: layer upon layer of filmmaker reacting to another filmmaker's work,

530
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 3: or given an opportunity because of the success of another filmmaker.

531
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: And I just I love his movies, and I love

532
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: it the most when he partners with Randa Wallace, which

533
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: is another wonderful friend, wonderful.

534
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: Writer and director, and I.

535
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: Am in their wake and in their shadow and grateful

536
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 3: to be doing any of this and would not be

537
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: here without the success.

538
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: Why did it take Hollywood all this time? That was

539
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, the past? Yeah, he opened up this

540
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: enormous audience. I mean hundreds of millions of dollars that

541
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: movie made. Why Why did Holly Wood not jump on

542
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: the bandwagon and just say look at this audience.

543
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: It's taken all this time.

544
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: The Wonder Project, YEA, Well, that's the goal and dream

545
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: of the Wonder Project is an independent studio that could

546
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: endure the test of time.

547
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: To solve that problem.

548
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: I think the core problem is we call it the gap,

549
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: and it's a gap between the craft and of filmmaking

550
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 3: and the authenticity of the audience the content. So you typically,

551
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 3: except for Mel Gibson, and I think he made the passion,

552
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: then he wanted to.

553
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: Go and do other things.

554
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 3: You know, Thank god he didn't want to do David,

555
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: because I wouldn't be here. But you know, I think

556
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: that that that other than Mel, you get this thing

557
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: of you either get things that are authentic to the

558
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: audience but poorly made, or you get things that are

559
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: very well made but inauthentic and in some ways of

560
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: betrayal to the audience exactly. And so there's been this

561
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: gap that we've been trying to close where you, on

562
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: the one hand, can make the content excellent but also authentic.

563
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: And that has been a problem really that there just

564
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: has not been enough Christians inside the industry that are

565
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 3: that are trying to discipline themselves and master the craft

566
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: film as much as they can. And that's a lifelong quest.

567
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: That's something that you'll ever far achieve. Art has built

568
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: over time. But I would say that you know, for me,

569
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: David is sort of like the Mount Everest of storytelling,

570
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: and it took all the films that I've made to

571
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 3: try to work up to a level of craftsmanship that

572
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: I think the story deserved.

573
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: It's not that it's perfect, but I.

574
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 3: Think that that that I should have done this story

575
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: five years ago or ten years ago.

576
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: It took that much time.

577
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: I said, exhausted you more than your thought. Oh yeah,

578
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: I would say that. But it's a great exhaustion. I

579
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: mean that there's nothing like, you know, being exhausted on

580
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: the field battle and a worthy cause, you know, And

581
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: so it's a meaningful exhaustion which I find less than.

582
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,239
Speaker 3: I would rather be thoroughly exhausted in something that I

583
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: believe in than sort of tired in something mediocre.

584
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: There was a great quote I came across from you

585
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: that I just loved it, where you mentioned Walt Disney. Yeah,

586
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: and I bet you can come up with a quote.

587
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: But it was trying to entertain the critics.

588
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: I'd rather take take my chances with the people. I mean,

589
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: first of I love that.

590
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: Was the king of quotes and uh and one of

591
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: the great entertainers in the history of entertainment obviously, and

592
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: one of the great inspirations. And he was not only

593
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: a great creator, he was a great entrepreneur and so

594
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: much of the the inventions of technology that drive our

595
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: industry came from the Walt Disney Company back to like

596
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: the multiplaying camera that iworks made for him. But I

597
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 3: loved his perspective on the audience and and some of

598
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: the you know, he had the way of of of

599
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: distilling things down to a line, and oftentimes I just

600
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: want to make sure, like am I serving and entertaining

601
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: the right group of people.

602
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: Of course I love it if there's a.

603
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: Good critic review or when you know, American Underdog was

604
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: certified fresh and I'm grateful, and but I but I

605
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: you know, I've got four A plus cinema scores and

606
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: that's that's from the audience, which I love. And at

607
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 3: the end of the day, what we say is it

608
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 3: is not about us. It's about the people in the

609
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: seats and the experience they're having with the content, and

610
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: that's it, and we are there. It is such an

611
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: incredible thing to me to think that people are going

612
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: to enter a theater or gather around a television set

613
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: and they're going to watch something that I made instead

614
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: of something that James Cameron or George Lukisman or whoever.

615
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: And so you try to honor that and at the

616
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: very first goal is to relentlessly entertain the audience.

617
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: In multiple languages across the world, across the whole world.

618
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: And so that's the quest. And so as great as it.

619
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: Is to be celebrated in any other form or to

620
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 3: any other group by like critics, Yeah, my relationship is

621
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: with the audience first and foremost.

622
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: Tell me about Michael Iskander, who is your David?

623
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: Is incredible?

624
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: Now? I saw him in Kimberly a Kimbo on broad

625
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: his son in New York. And when I saw the

626
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: picture them.

627
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: I said, where do I know this kid from that? Look?

628
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: How did you find him?

629
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: What was the here's a better question, what's the quality

630
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: in him that you needed in your David?

631
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: You know, it really comes down to one word, and

632
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: that word conviction.

633
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: A conviction. But okay, also that but I needed.

634
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: I needed a depth of soul, I needed a gravitas,

635
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: and I needed a conviction in his eyes. And I

636
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: had the privilege of directing Jonathan Roumy, who obviously the

637
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: plased Christ for Dallas and the Chosen and just understanding

638
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: the depth of soul and conviction that Jonathan had that

639
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: really was the what I was looking for. But then

640
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: also you think about the practicality of the role. It's

641
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: like a bullseye with and a bulls eye. I had

642
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: to have a musician, I had to have an athlete.

643
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: I had to have somebody that that that looked, that

644
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: was from the region, that that that had that that favored.

645
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: He's an Egyptian, right, He's an Egyptian, And so I

646
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: felt proud of that.

647
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: By the way, yesterday I got he and Jonathan Rumy

648
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: together for a one on one interview, and I'm like,

649
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: they look they look like family.

650
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 2: I mean fourteen generations, but they look like family.

651
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: And and so I, uh so, we looked at thousands

652
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: of people for House of David.

653
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: We looked hundreds of people for the role of David itself.

654
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: And and his audition came.

655
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: In, and you know those moments that you just know,

656
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: you just like the ten seconds into his audition, I'm like,

657
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: having looked at hundreds of people, that's him.

658
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: So I got on a flight a red eye that night.

659
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: And I said, I want to have breakfast with him,

660
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: and I want you know, we were thinking about thirty

661
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: minutes to talk about the role. We talked about life

662
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: and just cameras and all kinds of for three hours Wow,

663
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: And I said, I'm not supposed to tell you this

664
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: because you never say this because it gives agents leverage.

665
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: This is your role.

666
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: I really do believe that I've got this is also

667
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: an Amazon Global original. I've got a lot of people

668
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: to on board. So what I need you to do

669
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: is just do the work at every level. Do the work,

670
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: and at every level. He has outworked and out learned,

671
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: whether it was the accent or whether it was the

672
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: slinging stone or the lyre or the music that he

673
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: sings live in the show.

674
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: And Hebrew, which was his idea. You know, I could not.

675
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: I feel like a coach that is so proud of

676
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: an athlete that is becoming a super star right in

677
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: front of you.

678
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 2: So I remember the third day of filming.

679
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: I think he came over and he's like, except for

680
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: Kimberly Kimbo. He's like, that was good, right, was that

681
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 3: what you wanted? I'm like yeah, he's like, because he's.

682
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: Like, I know, you know this, man, this is my

683
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: first job, and I just want to do a good job.

684
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: So he has this great sensibility about it, but also

685
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: a depth of soul that is far beyond his years.

686
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: What do you want people to wrestle with.

687
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: I think most filmmakers want audiences to wrestle with something

688
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: in the story they're telling.

689
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is such an epic. What do you want

690
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: audiences to wrestle?

691
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 3: I mean, I want people to wrestle and with the

692
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: idea that we have a destiny.

693
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Beyond the life we're living.

694
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 3: Typically like, there is something, there's a whisper that that

695
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: that that is, that is that is scary, that is

696
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 3: far beyond your comfort zone.

697
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: That that's the great adventure. I like that.

698
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: You know, obviously we're working with Amazon, the show and

699
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos, and you can live a life, but I

700
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 3: agree with this quote. You can live a life of

701
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: you can live a life of ease, or you can

702
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: live a life of service or adventure.

703
00:34:58,920 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: But you can't do both.

704
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: And and so you know, the idea of David stepping

705
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 3: beyond his fear is stepping into his destiny and all

706
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: that came with that, which a big theme of the

707
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: show is the cost of destiny.

708
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 2: There is a cost. Do you feel you've done that here?

709
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: But this project, I feel like, you know, I was

710
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: talking to John Gun about this. We jumped into television. Man,

711
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: this wasn't like we didn't do like network television or Hallmark,

712
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 3: or we just jumped in went deep in historical epic.

713
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: Why not?

714
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 3: So I do think that there's a there's a great

715
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 3: joy into jumping into something that is far beyond your

716
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 3: comfort zone or far beyond what you know how to do.

717
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: And it's like jumping out of an airplane with the

718
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 3: components of a parachute, you know, and just assembling them

719
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: on the way down. I'll figure this out, but I'm

720
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 3: telling you I learned way back working with Alex Kendrick

721
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 3: on the movie Courageous, Like there's no greater feeling vocationally

722
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: than when you unify your craft or with with a

723
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: life's calling and a life's purpose and suddenly you're doing

724
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: something that you're trying to get better at, but you're

725
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: doing it for a purpose beyond yourself. That's a magical thing,

726
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 3: and but it's often a scary thing. And I think

727
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: the most meaningful moments in my career have been when

728
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: I've jumped off the ledge of my comfort zone until endeavor. Yeah,

729
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: and uh, And I think that that is the that

730
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: is the hero's journey, and I think we all have

731
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 3: a hero's journey to live and uh, and I think

732
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 3: our fear keeps us from living that hero's journey. So

733
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: I hope that people watch the series. I hope people

734
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: watch the series and read the psalms because they're so relatable.

735
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 3: But then I hope they asked the question, Okay, what

736
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 3: am I supposed to do?

737
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: Like? What what?

738
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 3: What is that inner voice telling me to go do?

739
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: That might be scary and beyond my comfort zone.

740
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: Okay, but these are real quick question because I know

741
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: you've got to go and you've done it, and you've

742
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: got many more.

743
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: People a great conversation.

744
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: Roy I ask everybody these are royal. It's my royal

745
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: grande questions.

746
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 3: Okay, this is the what was the them? What's the

747
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 3: interga James?

748
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: That's right.

749
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: I won't ask you that the person you most.

750
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: Admire, who is the person I most admire?

751
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 3: You know, I would say that I admire many, many

752
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: people like I love a great biography, and I love

753
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 3: to learn from.

754
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: The stories of others.

755
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 3: So of course, you know, I think right now, in

756
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 3: the moment that I'm in, I would say David. Probably

757
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: six months from now, when I'm directing this movie, I

758
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: would say.

759
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 2: George Washington but Washington.

760
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's something about about gleaning from other people's stories,

761
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: and a lot of that is whatever story I'm presently telling,

762
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 3: or maybe a book I've read, but I'm fully immersed

763
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 3: in the story of David right now. What is your

764
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 3: best feature, my pest feature? You know, probably you know,

765
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: I'll tell you this. This is the under celebrated virtue, Okay, curiosity.

766
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: I think if you can combine curiosity with pain tolerance,

767
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: there is not much that you can't achieve if you

768
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 3: can just be constantly learning.

769
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: And so I think I live I.

770
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 3: Live my life curious a level of curiosity and learning

771
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 3: all the time. And I think when that is met

772
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: with a level of determination, there is there are a

773
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: few things that you can't achieve.

774
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: What's your worst feature?

775
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, my worst feature is probably just the

776
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: uncontrollable personality of the artist.

777
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: Like if you're like, I'm a I'm an ADHD nightmare.

778
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: But my my biggest battles are within not my biggest

779
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: battles are with myself. Sometimes I feel like I'm I'm

780
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 3: I'm the greatest villain to my own story, you know,

781
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: And uh, And that's I think one of the reasons

782
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: why I like telling stories, whether it's David or whether

783
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: it's Jesus Revolution. I like these stories of imperfect people

784
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: that are very flawed that God still uses because I.

785
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: Feel like I fit right in.

786
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: We all do. Yeah, what is the thing you know

787
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: that authors don't know?

788
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 3: I know, boy, that's a great question and a loaded question.

789
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: It is I know that it you know what I think.

790
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: The thing that I can most that would be most

791
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: helpful to people listening is I know that it just

792
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: takes longer than you think, in the sense that I

793
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: wanted to I first the spark of curiosity for David

794
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: happened when I was sixteen years old. The first script

795
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: I wrote for a movie on David was in twenty twelve.

796
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: And success is long obedience in the same direction. If

797
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: you genuinely feel like your call to do something, just

798
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: keep going. It's going to take a lot longer than

799
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: you think, and then you're going to get to this

800
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: breakthrough moment. And I think there's not a lot of

801
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 3: failures in terms of stories. There's just a lot of

802
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 3: incomplete stories in the sense of there's not a lot

803
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 3: of bad films, there's just unfinished films. Sometimes we say,

804
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 3: and I think sometimes people give up and you never

805
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 3: know when that breakthrough moment where the fog clears was

806
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: right around the corner, and you stop too early, and

807
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 3: you stop too early. So if I can give any

808
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 3: advice to anybody is if you really feel like you're

809
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: supposed to do something, as long as you're learning, as

810
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 3: long as you're curious, don't give up. You just never

811
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 3: know when that moment is right around the court.

812
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: Final question, what happens when this is over? Oh, man,

813
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: I take a nap.

814
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 3: I think is But I'll tell you what I really

815
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: dream of, and this is the dream of the under project.

816
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 3: Is you think about the most profound outcome that could

817
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: come from all this. Somebody should make a documentary sometime

818
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: of the twenty five year mayhem that has led to

819
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: Fate film and the reemergence of this type content and

820
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 3: the yahoos that God has.

821
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 2: Used to do it.

822
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: But my hope the outcome that I would be most

823
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: like this made the journey worth it is. If you

824
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: watch the House of David Traylor, the first title card

825
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: that comes up is the MGM logo LEO the lionis

826
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 3: is one hundred years of entertainment. My hope is that

827
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: a lot of these successes for movies and television can

828
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 3: coalesce into an institution that can last one hundred years

829
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: and really allow us to tell these stories on a

830
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: global scale long after I'm not able. So I joke

831
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: around that I'd love to see a student last one

832
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: hundred years. I'd love to get it halfway. If Clint

833
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: Easwood can do it, I can do it, you know.

834
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: But the idea is that that would be a transcendent outcome.

835
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: That my hope and prayer and strong belief is that

836
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 3: there's now this group of creatives and we're willing each

837
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: other on to success. We're competing in the best sense

838
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: of the word, just trying to one up each other.

839
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 3: Like you know, I remember seeing every version of Dallas

840
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: Jenkins scene of Walking on the Water. I was shooting

841
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: the Jesus Revolution moved with the keys his DP, so

842
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: we were looking at every version on a Keith's phone

843
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: and I was called Dallason and but that was it's

844
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 3: a I feel that that's the best version of the

845
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: Walking on the Water that I've ever seen. It was

846
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: so well done, and that just makes me want to

847
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: like one up in with.

848
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: David and Goliath. I'm like, wait till you see David Goliath.

849
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: But that's happening.

850
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: And my hope is that the work that we're doing

851
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: as a group of friends and partners and collaborators right

852
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: now will sort of break the dam, as it were,

853
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: will allow creatives to come behind us and have their

854
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: voices heard, and that would be the most inspiring goal.

855
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: And to have any role in something that's emerging right

856
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: in front of you, like is a privilege. And to

857
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 3: bleed on the bleeding edge, to be in the arena

858
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 3: at all is a great privilege.

859
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: Well, John, I was not lost on me. Leo the

860
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: Lion opened the movie and David confronts Leo in the movie.

861
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: But I'm what happened? Isn't that amazing?

862
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 3: I just think that was actually one of the things

863
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 3: that that you know, you know, Samuel says to David

864
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: in the show, Uh, you know, God doesn't look on

865
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: the outward appearance. He looks in the heart. That's what's

866
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 3: in the Bible. And then we add and you have

867
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: the heart of a lion, you know, And what a

868
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: lions do?

869
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: They roar? He tells him.

870
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: And h and so the fact that the trailer opens

871
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: with the Lion. mGy is a good omen.

872
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: I think it's great, great interview. We could have talked

873
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: for hours.

874
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the whole house of David is on Amazon

875
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: Prime and it's worth watching with your family. But after

876
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: I spoke to John, I thought, why was David able

877
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: to whip Goliath so badly? Well, like every small person

878
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: who takes on a big entity, or a tiny hero

879
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: who takes on a huge villain, he flipped the script

880
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: on Goliath. The Philistine warrior thought he was fighting a

881
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: conventional enemy with swords and shields, a battle of strength,

882
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: But David brought a stone to the knife fight. His

883
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: surprising ingenuity, leaning into his own strength, gave him the victory.

884
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: He also had unflinching faith, a tested faith. At one point,

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00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: he says, the Lord has delivered me out of the

886
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: paw of the lion and out of the paw of

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00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: the bear. He will deliver me out of the hand

888
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: of this philistine. That determined faith, coupled with ingenuity made

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00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: him a hero. And the thing John said about jumping

890
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: off the edge of your comfort zone with faith, that

891
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: really is the hero's journey. I'm going to share the

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00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: story of some personal heroes in the weeks ahead. I

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00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: hope you won't miss that mother Angelica and a father

894
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: son team that we just interviewed that is so inspiring.

895
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: Moving anyway, I hope you'll come back to Arroyo Grande soon.

896
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: Why live a dry, narrow, constricted life when if you

897
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: fill it with good things, it can flow into a broad,

898
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: thriving Arroyo Grande. I'm riding the Arroyo. Make sure you

899
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: subscribe and like this episode. Thank you for diving in,

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00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced

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00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studios, and

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00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: is available on YouTube, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you

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00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.