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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to stuff. I'll never

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Speaker 1: told your protection of I Heart Radio's house Stuff works.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about clown you know how to suck

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Speaker 1: of song in my head? Now everything we were going

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Speaker 1: to say, it's every time I read it us right here. Well,

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Speaker 1: then that's a very effective song. It is, and we're

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Speaker 1: specifically looking at female clowns. And this episode is inspired

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Speaker 1: in part by the release of it chapter two. I

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Speaker 1: just watched the first one like a week ago, did you, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the mini series or the new one? The new one

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Speaker 1: mini series I watched as a child, and I'm traumatized

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Speaker 1: by that one. Yeah, but the new one I just

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Speaker 1: finally watched it or newer earlier. Yeah. That was the

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Speaker 1: worst theater experience I've ever had because somebody in front

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Speaker 1: of me was using it as an upportunity to try

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Speaker 1: out his set. He thought he was a comedian, and

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Speaker 1: so he was. He was making jokes very loudly, and

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Speaker 1: then when the movie ended, he got up in front

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Speaker 1: of everybody and said, you can follow me on Instagram

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Speaker 1: or see me at the see me at whatever show.

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Speaker 1: And we were all like, get out of here, right,

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Speaker 1: what I mean, it's if you've got your venue. They're

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Speaker 1: trapping their trapped, but they're gonna be angry and suppressed.

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Speaker 1: One got him kicked out. Somebody did report him, but

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Speaker 1: when the theater person came in, the guy was like,

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Speaker 1: come on, man, I'm just having fun. I'm just having fun.

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Speaker 1: And I guess that was enough. Shut up man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I had to rewatch it. Yes, and I do

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Speaker 1: want to apologize in advance to any clowns that are listening.

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Speaker 1: Who hates that this is the association that a lot

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Speaker 1: of us have. Yes, I'm sure you're good people, but

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Speaker 1: I'm still scared of you. I don't have a fear

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Speaker 1: of clowns. Um. I don't think I've ever actually seen one.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure in real life. In real life. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: I did notoriously push a man dressed as the Joker

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Speaker 1: into a pool when I was four years old because

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Speaker 1: he got my face and he was laughing at me.

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Speaker 1: That and uh my brother he was having a Batman

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Speaker 1: themed party that I was not allowed at that I

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Speaker 1: snuck into. He was very very upset with me. There's

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Speaker 1: a video of it somewhere. I wanted of you pushing

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Speaker 1: the clown because I want I want to see those joker.

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Speaker 1: I need to see this joker. Yeah, I've been to

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Speaker 1: a circus or two in um no offense, like we said,

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Speaker 1: but we've already discussed my irrational fears did to my

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Speaker 1: young exposure to horror movies and the origin of it

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Speaker 1: of one of the first films, of course, is what

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Speaker 1: we were talking about, just the IT mini series and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, come on, it's Tim Curry hiding in the sewer,

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Speaker 1: threatening like no, not threatening, tearing off a kid's arm,

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Speaker 1: talking about fluting. I will say no, I rewatched it

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Speaker 1: recently and I thought it was quite humorous. But look

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Speaker 1: when you see it as a child, and then you

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Speaker 1: go back and you're well, because I don't think I

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Speaker 1: actually finished it because I couldn't because I was so

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Speaker 1: scared of it, and I should have. That's I think

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Speaker 1: that's when I learned my lesson to finish out all

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Speaker 1: the movies because you'll be less scared when you finish

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Speaker 1: it out typically, But yeah, this is one of those

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And then when I did finally see clips

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Speaker 1: at the ending, I was like, oh, yeah, that's dumb.

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Speaker 1: No spoilers hashtag grows spoilers. Yeah, but it don't, don't.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely an eighties well and the main character his

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Speaker 1: the mullet, not in mullet, and I hit the ponytail.

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Speaker 1: He's rocking. You know what. When I was looking back

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Speaker 1: on the clips, Jonathan Brandis was in it, Seth Greene.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Brandis was a ninety nineties heart throb and I

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Speaker 1: loved him. And he was dating Tatiana Ali Fresh, Prince

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Speaker 1: of bel Air. That was very jealous. Wow, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a serious crush. I think, probably my first crush ever. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll have to go back and we watch it with

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Speaker 1: new eyes. Okay, Well, we're not just gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: it scary clowns today. Um. We wanted to start with

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Speaker 1: the definition, as we like to do from dictionary dot com,

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Speaker 1: a comic performer, as in a circus, theatrical production or

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Speaker 1: the like, who wears an outlandish costume and makeup and

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Speaker 1: entertains by pantomizing common situations or actions in exaggerated or

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Speaker 1: ridiculous fashion, by juggling or tumbling, et cetera. And what

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Speaker 1: we view as traditional clowning at circuses has long been

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Speaker 1: dominated by men, but that doesn't mean there aren't any

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Speaker 1: female clowns um or that there haven't been from Russian

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Speaker 1: critic Mikhail Bochton, Clowns are quote, life's maskers, right to

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Speaker 1: be other in this world, the right not to make

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Speaker 1: common calls with any single one of the existing categories

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Speaker 1: that life makes available. And so clowning has a long history.

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Speaker 1: It goes all the way back to ancient Greece, ancient Egypt,

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Speaker 1: and ancient China. In seventh century BC, the Dorian mimes

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Speaker 1: was a troop that included female clowns. The name came

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Speaker 1: from the performer's ability to mimic others. So they weren't

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Speaker 1: mimes like we we think of them today, but they were.

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Speaker 1: They could mimic people we may mimic really well, real

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Speaker 1: life things like lambing upstairs. It's true. It just didn't

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Speaker 1: mean they were silent, I guess. In ancient Rome, a

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Speaker 1: valued position was that of the funeral clown, a juster

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Speaker 1: that would dress as the recently deceased, typically a rich person,

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Speaker 1: if you could afford this and make fun of their habits.

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Speaker 1: I want one of those, Well you could, well, who

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Speaker 1: makes it? Well, we'll get a professional clown for you.

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know whatever I kind of want

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Speaker 1: this to happen. Yeah, and clowns in a Belanese theater

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Speaker 1: were viewed as servants of the gods. Famous and mythical

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Speaker 1: Indian gesture to Nali Rama's summon, the Hindu goddess Collie

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Speaker 1: stole from her and then joked about it. Now, Collie

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Speaker 1: is scary. She's often depicted with skulls on her necklace.

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Speaker 1: But she thought he was funny, so she allowed him

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Speaker 1: to live. Yeah, you should look up the pictures of

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Speaker 1: Colie in this story is pretty good. Yeah, just in general.

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Speaker 1: And though she's the goddess of like torment Or, she's

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Speaker 1: she's like multi We did an episode kind of about her.

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Speaker 1: She's kind of like both death and life and yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she's a frightening fiction. She'll get you. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the point we're trying to make. Um. During medieval times,

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Speaker 1: clowns called glee men often worked in partnership with a

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Speaker 1: glee maiden. This glee maiden was multitalented, a dancer and acrobat,

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Speaker 1: a musician. Sometimes these glee maidens worked alone and sometimes

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Speaker 1: as assistants for men in burlesque. And this is when

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Speaker 1: we saw Mother Fowley, an elderly woman who led medieval

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Speaker 1: carnival celebrations, which were appropriately wild. She had a full

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Speaker 1: moon mask to represent the fickleness of woman, their power,

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Speaker 1: and how dangerous they could be. According to one historian,

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Speaker 1: she quote allows for the expression of aspects of the

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Speaker 1: feminine that are normally repressed. Then, if we look at

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Speaker 1: jesters from Dana Frauden's book King's Fool Quote. In medieval days,

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Speaker 1: buffoonery was one of the few professions open to women.

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Speaker 1: Royal courts and nobility often would have jesters on retainer,

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Speaker 1: and some of those were women. Jesters had more freedom

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Speaker 1: of speech than the average commoner, which gave them the

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Speaker 1: power to speak out against their rulers in a way

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Speaker 1: most could not, sometimes even impacting policy, like when Emperor

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Speaker 1: shahuang Ti commissioned for the building of the Great Wall

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Speaker 1: of China. He also ordered it to be painted, which

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Speaker 1: could have led to thousands more deaths, but his jester

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Speaker 1: was able to make fun of the proposal and the

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Speaker 1: emperor decided against it. So that's pretty powerful stuff. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Roman philosopher Seneca, his wife had a female full

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Speaker 1: own retainer. One of history's most famous female jesters was

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Speaker 1: working during the seventeenth century in France, her name was

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Speaker 1: matthe Reen. Mathe Reen ruled over the courts of kings

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Speaker 1: Henry the Third, Henry the Four's, and Louis. She dressed

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Speaker 1: as an Amazon warrior, armor shilled sword in robes. She

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Speaker 1: was also well known, and her name came to be

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Speaker 1: used for other satius. In particular type of burlesque writing

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Speaker 1: that was similar to her comedy was dubbed Mathra ren Nod.

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Speaker 1: While accompanying a woman of the court for an audience

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Speaker 1: with the king, the woman told Matheine something like I

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Speaker 1: don't like having a fool to my right, and without

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Speaker 1: missing a step, Matheine switched side and said, I don't

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Speaker 1: mind at all. I love it, love it. Matheen also

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Speaker 1: was very religious and dedicated her justicres want to God,

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Speaker 1: and allegedly she helped capture a potential assassin of Henry

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Speaker 1: the Fourth by blocking the door of his escape. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I read that, and I was like, what it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a cool lady. All these women are pretty badass.

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Speaker 1: In Europe during the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries, the it

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Speaker 1: entertainment at the theater was Comedia del arte and it

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Speaker 1: included female clowns. The performers were divided into three groups,

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Speaker 1: master's servants and the young lovers, and the masters and

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Speaker 1: servants were played by clowns. The servants, who usually drove

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Speaker 1: the plot, had three main characters, the smart male rogue,

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Speaker 1: his foolish male companion, and the female. Usually the female

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Speaker 1: served as the roman take interest for one of the men,

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Speaker 1: of course, but she was involved in other story elements too.

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Speaker 1: There were three servant characters only played by women, Columbine,

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Speaker 1: Francistina and smell real Dina. Lots of threes in this

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Speaker 1: three by three three rule of threes. Funnily enough, the

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Speaker 1: female version of Harlequin is Harlequina. So Harley Quinn not

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Speaker 1: so much. I don't know um. From Comedia Delarte came

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Speaker 1: English pantomime during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. This is

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Speaker 1: the time the quote father of modern clowning, Joseph Grimaldi,

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Speaker 1: started working first dawning white faced clown makeup, and he

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Speaker 1: worked with female clowns. The circus got its start three

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Speaker 1: years ago in Western Europe. While a few female clowns

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Speaker 1: were recorded these early days, it was mostly men working

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Speaker 1: at the circus. Of the few mentioned of female clowns.

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Speaker 1: Some were painted as publicity stunts as opposed to serious performers.

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Speaker 1: In fifty eight is a year a lot of historian's

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Speaker 1: point to the first modern female clown, Amelia Butler. And

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Speaker 1: we there are a lot more clown clown details history

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Speaker 1: facts for you, but first we're gonna paustre quickick for

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Speaker 1: words more sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So

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Speaker 1: from eighteen eighties six, the New Veil Sook in Paris

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Speaker 1: became the circus capital of the world. It was owned

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Speaker 1: by the co founder of the Mulan Rouge. Clown Nesses,

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Speaker 1: as female clowns were known, weren't all that rare, but

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Speaker 1: they were often Mulan Rouge dancers dressed as clowns, so

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Speaker 1: a little bit different. One of the most well known

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Speaker 1: of these dancers was chat Cow, which was the name

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Speaker 1: inspired by a wild dance similar to the can can.

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Speaker 1: The only way we know about her is because of

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Speaker 1: a series of paintings done by Andre de Toulouse Lautrec.

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Speaker 1: Aside from dancing, she was also a contortionist and an acrobat.

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Speaker 1: The Check applauded her bravery and working in a male

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Speaker 1: dominated industry and being open about being a lesbian. Well

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Speaker 1: there's miss Lulu born in eighty two and she married

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Speaker 1: a famous male clown and they worked together. She was

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Speaker 1: a contortionist and a wile walker. There's a wire walk

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Speaker 1: with me pun in there, but I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is. Maybe it's give me that. Then there's Lulu Adams,

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Speaker 1: the daughter of famous British clown Joe Crafton, and her

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Speaker 1: grandmother was the first tightrope artist to perform at the

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Speaker 1: Brighton Hippodrome. So she kind of had a family family business.

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Speaker 1: Literally worked in some of her dad's routines and at

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Speaker 1: the age of seventeen, she convinced her dad to buy

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Speaker 1: her a set of bagpipes and that's what she became

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Speaker 1: known for. Her favorite song was Laugh Clown Laugh, I

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Speaker 1: was her favorite song play. She was multitalented, especially when

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Speaker 1: it came to playing instruments, and could speak five languages.

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Speaker 1: She was the first female clown to perform at many

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Speaker 1: of the most to just British circuses. She also worked

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Speaker 1: at America's Barnum and Bailey's, the Tom Arnold's Christmas Circuit

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Speaker 1: and at the Ringling Circus. Before his untimely death, her

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Speaker 1: and her husband worked as a clown duo. She once

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Speaker 1: told a reporter, I was born into the circus. Mother

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Speaker 1: was a writer and a high wire performer. Dad was

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Speaker 1: an acrobat, and all sorts of things. I shall go

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Speaker 1: on clowning till I die. That's the power of the circus.

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Speaker 1: You can never leave it. In the early United States

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Speaker 1: there are more records of female clowns than in Europe.

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Speaker 1: In the New York Times called a Vetta Matthews, misattributed

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Speaker 1: as a Miss Williams, the only lady clown on Earth.

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Speaker 1: The woman's rights movement was taking off in Europe and

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Speaker 1: the US at this time, and Barnum and Bailey had

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Speaker 1: a new woman's segment that featured Matthews. Some of their

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Speaker 1: advertisements read A Vetta the only lady clown from Adams.

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Speaker 1: There were plenty of women trupeze performers, bar performers, and

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Speaker 1: tight rope performers, and even strong women who could hold

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Speaker 1: half a dozen full on their shoulders. These fields seemed

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Speaker 1: to be pretty well occupied, so Miss Matthews got advanced

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Speaker 1: notions of emancipation and determined to invade a new field

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Speaker 1: and become clown. There never had been women clowns, so

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Speaker 1: this This is from a work, a piece on the

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Speaker 1: history of clowning um and she chafed at the strict

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Speaker 1: rules handed down to her about what she could and

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Speaker 1: couldn't do as a woman. Like Tumble, they were very

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Speaker 1: specific about certain physical things that women could perform. Pop

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Speaker 1: their mechanics referred to Loretta la Pearl as a fair

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Speaker 1: young woman with luminous eyes and as the only circus clown,

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Speaker 1: the only woman circus clown nineteen twenty seven, So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of the only of these women clowns. Female

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Speaker 1: clowns at the time did usually wear outfits that were

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Speaker 1: at the intersection of sexy and ridiculous. Felix Adler and

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Speaker 1: Amelia Irwin or the King and Queen of clowning during

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Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century. In nineteen sixty eight, when the

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Speaker 1: Ringing Brothers opened their clown College, female clowns became more common.

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Speaker 1: Their first female clow own graduated in nineteen seventy, Peggy Williams.

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Speaker 1: Then they got Annie Fredalini. She was a film actress

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Speaker 1: before she got into clowning, and she worked with her

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Speaker 1: husband as well, director Pierre Ette. She went on to

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Speaker 1: start her own circus in nineteen seventy four in her

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Speaker 1: own circus school in France, and this led to the

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Speaker 1: birth of nouveau cirque in that country. When interviewed in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, she said, circus people didn't believe that

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Speaker 1: a woman could take pratfalls, get slapped and kicked and

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Speaker 1: be ridiculous. But women have more sensitivity, the essential quality.

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Speaker 1: It's not a question of gayety or humor. A clown

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Speaker 1: isn't a comedian. To be a good clown, you must

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Speaker 1: have lived. To be a clown means more than just

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Speaker 1: putting on a costume and making funny faces at the audience.

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Speaker 1: The clown must take the audience on a unique adventure

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Speaker 1: in a strange dimension, which I love. Then there's Nina Krasavina,

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Speaker 1: the star of the Moscow Circus, who also got in conning.

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Speaker 1: Thinks to her husband, she was the first clown in

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Speaker 1: the Moscow ring. Yeah. So. According to one list that

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Speaker 1: ranks clowns, there were only three women listed within the

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Speaker 1: top one hundred most famous clowns. Arrissa a. K A

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Speaker 1: Resolva or Arissa or Risolba Pippa she was at four,

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Speaker 1: Annette Fredlini at forty one, and Camilla Grisky at seventy.

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Speaker 1: Of course this is just one list, but with all

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Speaker 1: the people we mentioned above, I just I thought it

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Speaker 1: was interesting, um that it was just three that made

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Speaker 1: into that top one hundred list. Yeah. I mean, and

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Speaker 1: think about the uproar around podcast when it's like ten

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Speaker 1: and it only has three women one hundred and I

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Speaker 1: have three women. Um, yes, So clearly it has been

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Speaker 1: a lot of dudes in the clowning business, but there

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Speaker 1: have been women there and they have been doing great work.

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Speaker 1: And these are just a few examples that we were

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Speaker 1: able to find. So we do have a little bit

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Speaker 1: more in this episode for you, but first one more

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Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So nowadays, I mean we've all heard

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Speaker 1: about the problem of the horror clown the problem I

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Speaker 1: guess for clowning and specific I mean, it didn't will

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Speaker 1: help that we have, you know, serial killers who liked

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Speaker 1: dressing up as clowns as well, so kind of attached

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Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, yeah, it's unfortunate and several wasted something.

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Speaker 1: Um and the circus the circus closing, um, so well,

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Speaker 1: I have I found this quote from Real Smiley clown

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Speaker 1: we have to face facts and realize that, at least

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Speaker 1: in America, clowning is dying as an art form due

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Speaker 1: to negative attention, which has harmed the image of clowns.

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Speaker 1: And in this blog post, one of the things the

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Speaker 1: author says is we need to bring in more women.

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Speaker 1: We need to make it more diverse and more appealing

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Speaker 1: to people. And if you're listening to this, because it's

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Speaker 1: pretty easy to make fun of clowns. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: the butt of a lot of jokes about going to

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Speaker 1: clowning school or being a terrible frightening I don't joke

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Speaker 1: about it because I'm I'm still a fraid afraid that

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Speaker 1: Penny Wise is going to come for you something something

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Speaker 1: in that realm you right, But I think we forget this.

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Speaker 1: History has shown that clowning can be very powerful and

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Speaker 1: it is I even read articles about the difference in

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Speaker 1: how do we define how do we separate clowning from

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Speaker 1: comedians who are very physical in their acts, and um,

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Speaker 1: that's not really for us to say, but it is

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Speaker 1: conversations that are happening right now. And um, I when

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Speaker 1: I was talking about this episode with our coworker Lauren,

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Speaker 1: who is my co host over on saber Um. She

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Speaker 1: has friends who work in clowning, and I totally forgot

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Speaker 1: about this whole aspect of it. But they work for

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Speaker 1: something called Humorology Atlanta, and they visit places like children's

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Speaker 1: hospitals and senior communities, and they bring so much joy

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Speaker 1: when they go visit those places. And the way Lauren

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Speaker 1: described it was very heartbreaking and beautiful at once. Um,

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Speaker 1: she's telling stories of people who can't speak and being

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Speaker 1: able to interact with a clown who is also not

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Speaker 1: speaking on that level and feeling such like joy and

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Speaker 1: validation and happiness, and that's powerful. She can juggle, right, Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: she can do it. She's got a lot of talents.

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Speaker 1: She's got a very particular set of juggling. Um. So

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Speaker 1: I just feel like I clowning can do so much good,

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Speaker 1: and it would the industry itself would benefit from being

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Speaker 1: more diverse, right, Yes, And hopefully Lauren is reaching out

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Speaker 1: to her friends, her female friends who work in clowning,

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Speaker 1: so hopefully we can revisit. Yeah, bring someone on to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. I'm sorry, I just had a moment.

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Speaker 1: If they dressed up, I may I may have to

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Speaker 1: go to the corner. I don't think they'll tell okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I think you'll be okay, we need to get you

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Speaker 1: some No, I don't knowin therapy. I don't know. You're right,

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Speaker 1: you're right, You're right. That's how Samantha. But we would

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Speaker 1: love to hear from from you listeners. If you are,

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Speaker 1: if you happen to work in clowning or know someone

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Speaker 1: who does, or you have any stories you'd like to share,

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Speaker 1: please share them. You can email us at Stuff Media,

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Speaker 1: mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can

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Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on

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Speaker 1: Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always

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Speaker 1: to a superproducer, Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrews, and thanks to

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Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You his production

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Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For podcasts from I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit i heeart Radio, app, Apple podcast, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Zo