WEBVTT - Mirror Mirror

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<v Speaker 1>We meet again, listener, connecting across time and space to

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<v Speaker 1>share a story and to think, I'm Dessa. This is

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<v Speaker 1>deeply human and we're headed into the beating heart of symmetry.

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<v Speaker 1>Why are we particularly attracted to faces that look the

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<v Speaker 1>same on both sides? How and why is symmetry tied

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<v Speaker 1>into our ideas of what's beautiful. We'll start by speaking

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<v Speaker 1>with a woman named Mafi. Although she's an effervescent grown up,

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<v Speaker 1>as a kid, Marfi was acutely and uncomfortably aware of

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<v Speaker 1>our preference for symmetrical faces because hers wasn't remember being

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<v Speaker 1>asleepover once at this girl's house this guy went to

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<v Speaker 1>school with, and she was like really rich, and she

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<v Speaker 1>had like you know these like white carpets and like

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<v Speaker 1>mini tobler own bars and the company. I know. She

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<v Speaker 1>had this blonde brat stole and I like looking at

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<v Speaker 1>it and like saying a prayer to God and being

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<v Speaker 1>like please, please, God, Like, can I look try this

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<v Speaker 1>one day. If you're not familiar with the Brad's brand,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a line of dolls with big heads and tiny waists,

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<v Speaker 1>wearing nightclub fashions and runaway makeup. They've got exaggerated potty lips,

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<v Speaker 1>enormous almond eyes, and almost no nose because you don't

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<v Speaker 1>need a nose to be sexy, and they are, of

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<v Speaker 1>course perfectly symmetrical, as you might have already gleaned. I

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<v Speaker 1>am not a huge fan of hyper sexualized dolls with

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<v Speaker 1>alien proportions marketed as playthings for young girls. I've had

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<v Speaker 1>this aversion since I myself was a small girl and

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<v Speaker 1>was once discovered lecturing on the topic while standing at

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<v Speaker 1>a box in the middle of my day care center.

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<v Speaker 1>I digress back to Mafi, who was painfully aware of

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<v Speaker 1>her own facial asymmetry. Mafi's mom was awesome, always telling

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<v Speaker 1>Mafi how beautiful she was. But moms are so easy

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<v Speaker 1>to write off, like they have to say that right.

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<v Speaker 1>I had such a kind of fixed idea of myself

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<v Speaker 1>as someone that wasn't physically beautiful at all. I wore

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<v Speaker 1>really serious, full long glasses, and I also wore an

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<v Speaker 1>eye patch on my stronger eye to make my weaker

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<v Speaker 1>I have to work harder for years, and they try

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of kind of sex it up for me

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<v Speaker 1>with stickers and stuff to kind of compensate in some

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<v Speaker 1>way for the humiliation at school. Mafi has stra business

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<v Speaker 1>a lazy eye, and that's sometimes made eye contact difficult

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<v Speaker 1>because the other kids weren't sure where she was looking,

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<v Speaker 1>so she spent a lot of time looking down at

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<v Speaker 1>her hands. Although mafia is asymmetry is obvious, none of

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<v Speaker 1>us are quite the same on both sides. Chris mcmannus

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<v Speaker 1>is a medic and a psychologist who wrote a book

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<v Speaker 1>called Right Hand, Left Hand that splits us open to

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<v Speaker 1>study both halves, how they're built, while we use them

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<v Speaker 1>the way we do, and even our attitudes about each side.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris is a professor at the University of London. We

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<v Speaker 1>met at the BBC Studios to sit down for a

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<v Speaker 1>serious intellectual exchange. Can you lift an eyebrow? One? Which one? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure. I didn't even I need some feedback.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got no idea what I'm doing. Do you do

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<v Speaker 1>your best to lift your left eyebrow and I'll tell you, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not happening. Do your best to lift your right eyebrow. God,

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<v Speaker 1>this isn't video. Now there is a movement that is

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<v Speaker 1>not okay. Chris is not likely to be cast as

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<v Speaker 1>an arch villain in the next blockbuster. When I asked

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<v Speaker 1>him why we're generally symmetrical in the first place. The

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<v Speaker 1>answer was pretty forthright. It's easier to navigate through the

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<v Speaker 1>world on legs that are roughly the same length and

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<v Speaker 1>with ears that work in pretty much the same way

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<v Speaker 1>and are in the same position on our head. But

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<v Speaker 1>growing into a symmetrical organism might be harder than it

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<v Speaker 1>seems on first glance. Think think about a fetus in

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<v Speaker 1>the womb, all its individual parts forming separately. How his

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<v Speaker 1>fingers are he is or its knees get to be

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<v Speaker 1>the same on both sides. Well, the answer is that

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<v Speaker 1>they both take the same set of instructions, the same DNA,

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<v Speaker 1>But by the time the knees, the ears, and the

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<v Speaker 1>fingers are developing, they're stuck out miles away from each other.

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<v Speaker 1>So they both read the same instructions and they try

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<v Speaker 1>and produce the same organ by using that codebook. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>same pattern book. But if stuff goes wrong during that process,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's noise, there's interference, stuff happens. I mean literal noise,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean biological noise, but it might be physical noise

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Stresses stresses anything, some radioactivity, the old cosmic

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<v Speaker 1>ray coming through, perhaps some drugs or something, but anything

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<v Speaker 1>can happen, then the two sides get slightly different. You

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<v Speaker 1>and I are both making duck allourage and separate kitchens. I, however,

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<v Speaker 1>have had three martinis, so we have the same recipe,

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<v Speaker 1>but an intervening factor that means that I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>burn the duck. Yeah, that's what we call biological noise.

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<v Speaker 1>But normally, for most of us, there's what we call buffering.

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<v Speaker 1>There's enough control over it to make sure the two

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<v Speaker 1>things stay the same. So if that goes wrong, then

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<v Speaker 1>of course the two sides become slightly different, but it

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<v Speaker 1>means actually other things are going wrong in development as well.

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<v Speaker 1>If an organism's symmetry has been thrown off, there might

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<v Speaker 1>be other problems beneath the surface too, And that's probably

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<v Speaker 1>why we look for symmetry and faces and that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. People with symmetric faces, it's probably they've got

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<v Speaker 1>good genes, they're well buffered, they can respond to stress

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<v Speaker 1>and survive it. And that's why we think that symmetry

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<v Speaker 1>is beauty in faces in particular. So we have this

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<v Speaker 1>idea that seeing someone and appraising their faces symmetrical and beautiful,

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<v Speaker 1>is that sort of shorthand for appraising their reproductive health

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<v Speaker 1>in biological terms, yes, all organisms are looking for somebody

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<v Speaker 1>to mate with in order to produce offspring, probably having

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<v Speaker 1>a symmetric faces part of that story. So far, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>and I have been discussing the symmetries that we can

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<v Speaker 1>see in one another are external appearances, but inside we're

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<v Speaker 1>not so symmetrical at all. So, for instance, our heart

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<v Speaker 1>is asymmetric, and what it's like that is interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>if you go to more primitive animals earth worms or insects,

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<v Speaker 1>or even some primitive vertebrates, then they have a small

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<v Speaker 1>heart which is in the middle of the body and

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<v Speaker 1>it's not at all asymmetric. We seem to get large

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<v Speaker 1>hearts when we have a lot of muscles, and when

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<v Speaker 1>you start to pump a lot of blood through a

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<v Speaker 1>symmetric heart, you get turbulence. And what seems to have

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<v Speaker 1>happened is that the heart is evolved so that the

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<v Speaker 1>blood spirals through it and stops the turbulence. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to open up the chest, you'll find

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<v Speaker 1>that if you look at the lungs, then the right

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<v Speaker 1>lung has three lobes and the left lung has too.

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<v Speaker 1>If you look inside the abdomen, you'll find that there's

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<v Speaker 1>the liver on one side, the spleen on the other,

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<v Speaker 1>the stomach, the intestines, all of them are asymmetric. Famously,

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<v Speaker 1>the testicles even are asymmetric, and they're larger on one

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<v Speaker 1>side than the other, and higher on one side and

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<v Speaker 1>the other and so on, and all of those asymmetries

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<v Speaker 1>seem to really follow on from the fact that the

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<v Speaker 1>heart is asymmetric. So if you find the rare people

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<v Speaker 1>it's about one in ten thousand people in the world

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<v Speaker 1>who have their heart on the right side, then they

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<v Speaker 1>will tend to have their liver, their stomach, their spleen,

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<v Speaker 1>even their testicles reversed, so they're a mirror image. They're

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<v Speaker 1>flipped over. We're not at all behaviorally symmetrical either. Somebody

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<v Speaker 1>parts are stronger or more flexible, more nimble than their

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<v Speaker 1>partners on the other side. About nine out of ten

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<v Speaker 1>of us favor our right hands, though men are more

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<v Speaker 1>likely to be left handed than women, and there's evidence

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<v Speaker 1>that handedness actually starts in utero. So if you spy

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<v Speaker 1>on babies with an ultrasound while they are in the

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<v Speaker 1>presumed privacy of their mother's stomachs, you'll see that they

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<v Speaker 1>often suck the thumb of the preferred hand. And sitting

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<v Speaker 1>here watching you interview me, I noticed you've just clasped

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<v Speaker 1>your hands together. And hand clasping where you grip the

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<v Speaker 1>hands together, then there's usually one thumb on top. In

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<v Speaker 1>my case, it's the right thumb on top right for

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<v Speaker 1>me to write, but half the population it's the other

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<v Speaker 1>way around. And if if I force myself to the

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<v Speaker 1>other way around, it feels so disgusting I want to

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<v Speaker 1>leave my own company. What are the other behavioral asymmetries

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<v Speaker 1>besides right handed dominants? Like what are the part of

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<v Speaker 1>our bodies are asymmetrically used? Almost all of them. Although

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<v Speaker 1>about ten percent of people are left handed, about twenty

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<v Speaker 1>percent of people who left footed. What about like for

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<v Speaker 1>our sense organs? Even the eyes are the obvious one.

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<v Speaker 1>Eyes are slightly tricky about people are right eye the

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<v Speaker 1>other left died. But it's in the sense of which

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<v Speaker 1>I we choose to look with. So it's a strange question.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you had to look through a keyhole, which

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<v Speaker 1>I would you view? In some ways eyes themselves or

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<v Speaker 1>keyholes through which our brain peers out at the world

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<v Speaker 1>from inside its skull. I asked Matthew what it was

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<v Speaker 1>like to see the world through her eyes. I only

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<v Speaker 1>really focus with one eye at a time. I've got

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<v Speaker 1>one that I use for far away, and I've got

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<v Speaker 1>one that I I used to close up. The interesting thing

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<v Speaker 1>about it, though, is that I can look at two

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<v Speaker 1>things at once. Um, it's just yeah, it's just that one.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just that one is kind of performs a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of peripheral function in the sense that I don't focus

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<v Speaker 1>on it, so I'm able to kind of shut one

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<v Speaker 1>of them off. But it's it's probably quote. I think

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<v Speaker 1>you'd probably been pretty freaked out, like if we could,

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<v Speaker 1>if we could trade little feed for a second. But

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<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, you'd probably be pretty freaked out

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<v Speaker 1>to like, why could this girl only see like four

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<v Speaker 1>degrees in front of her? She's going to pop down.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll be glad to learn that Marphy had a much

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<v Speaker 1>better time of it as a teenager than as a

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<v Speaker 1>grade schooler. I remember when I got to secondary school

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<v Speaker 1>and suddenly boys fancied me and I just could not

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<v Speaker 1>believe my love. I was like, oh my god, I've

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<v Speaker 1>got all this sexual power and I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>to do with that, as it happens, marfy did find

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<v Speaker 1>something to do with all that sexual power. When you're

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<v Speaker 1>at a caffeh shop or or if you're at a bar,

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<v Speaker 1>do you ever get the sense that maybe people recognize you? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it does happen a bit. Now, will you tell me

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<v Speaker 1>what you do for a living? I am a I

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<v Speaker 1>suppose model, and that's the idea. It was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>an accident. Really, I got scouted at a festival when

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<v Speaker 1>I was fourteen or fifteen and did a test shoot

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<v Speaker 1>and really, like I thought it was intolerable. She tried modeling,

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<v Speaker 1>hated it and built completely and then essentially gets discovered

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<v Speaker 1>again a few years later, like modeling will only roll on.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone introduced me to this photographer called Tyrone Nabon, who

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<v Speaker 1>now is a really good friend of mine, and he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted someone that wasn't kind of fashion e and he

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<v Speaker 1>took some photos of me and they ended up on

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<v Speaker 1>the cover of Pop So what did that mean? Like?

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<v Speaker 1>How big a deal is that? I suppose? Maybe? Still

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<v Speaker 1>do I really know? I mean, they've had lots of

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<v Speaker 1>other kind of big celebs. Um uh much? You hate this?

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<v Speaker 1>You hate name dropping? Like you really hate this? Part?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that right. I find it quite embarrassing. Yeah, okay, stop,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna take over. Pop is a UK fashion and

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<v Speaker 1>culture magazine that's featured people like Naomi Campbell and Britney

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<v Speaker 1>Spears on its covers, and Storm, the modeling agency that

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<v Speaker 1>signed Mafi, discovered people like Kate Moss. Mafi is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of crushing it and I ended up being her calling card.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if this is easy to answer from

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<v Speaker 1>the inside, but do you have a sense of how

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<v Speaker 1>much the lazy eye defines your career? Oh? No, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it, it is my career. Basically, a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of asymmetry might have an attraction all its own. To

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<v Speaker 1>talk aesthetics more generally, for a moment, I have wrangled

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<v Speaker 1>my design friend Vance Wallenstein. Vance and I met in

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<v Speaker 1>our early twenties, having crossed paths in the Minneapolis indie

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<v Speaker 1>music scene and conveniently for future podcasting me, He ended

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<v Speaker 1>up the head of design at Moment PS one, a

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<v Speaker 1>branch of the Museum of Modern Art, New York. I

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<v Speaker 1>asked Vance to explain how symmetry is understood and treated

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<v Speaker 1>in his field. I think historically, you know, symmetry represented

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<v Speaker 1>the ideal perfection the most beautiful. It was the most elegant,

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<v Speaker 1>it was the most you know, wealthy. You know, you

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<v Speaker 1>think of places of worship, religious texts, even tombstones for example,

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<v Speaker 1>you rarely see you know, a name left justified or

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<v Speaker 1>right justified. It's going to be centered. It's the most

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<v Speaker 1>kind of respectful, maybe precious way to present information. Symmetry

0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 1>also had class connotations. It was refined. Vance who has

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.959
<v Speaker 1>a special expertise and typography can see those class connotations

0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.160
<v Speaker 1>play out in our type treatments. At least in the

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Western world. You have, you know, the emergence of data

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>to still Russian constructivism, you know, bau House, all of

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 1>these sorts of movements in Europe that are advocating for

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 1>an asymmetrical approach to typography and reading as a way

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 1>to kind of socialize the experience of reading and advertising,

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 1>to make it for the people in a way. It

0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 1>wasn't absolute perfect. Symmetry is also like totally impossible to

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 1>find in nature. Absolutely it's the ideal, but as we

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 1>all know, the ideal with regards to anything doesn't exist,

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 1>which does not stop us from trying to find it.

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 1>I do think that you know, the eye is trying

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 1>to make connections between forms, etcetera, and create lines. When

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 1>things are asymmetrical, the experience of viewing something from a

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.280
<v Speaker 1>visual standpoint becomes much more dynamic as a result, and

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 1>I would say charged exciting in a way because you

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>have to do more work and optically, once you've done

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 1>that work to actually figure out the alignments, the experience

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 1>just becomes so much more rewarding. What do you mean

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 1>when you say that we're doing more work, Does that

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 1>mean that, like, my eyes are literally moving all around

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.840
<v Speaker 1>the picture. Yes, because your eyes do want, just by nature,

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 1>to have things be balanced, to be symmetrical. So when

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 1>they're not, you have to create those visuals. Those you're

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>you're you're creating those points, You're finding those points to

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 1>create those lines for it to become symmetrical. Asymmetry being

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.520
<v Speaker 1>a much more I would argue, challenging but rewarding experience,

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And I think that can be applied to just about anything,

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 1>whether it's type setting, whether it's art, whether it's a human,

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>whether it's how they look, how they act. Part of

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 1>the reason that evolutionary biologists give for a general attraction

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 1>to symmetrical human faces is that human beings that were

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>able to develop one eye that looks pretty much like

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 1>the other eye, like grew up in an environment without

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 1>too many developmental strains, and they got some genes that

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 1>were able to express themselves evenly across the body, like

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>it might be an indicator for reproductive health. And then

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 1>to balance that against like every adolescent girls crush to

0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.120
<v Speaker 1>be real heteronormative on like the classic scar over just

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.280
<v Speaker 1>one eye, or the Monroe piercing on one side of

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the mouth, you know, or like if you imagine flappers,

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>like the parting your hair really far to one side.

0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>When you talk about like asymmetry being more of a

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 1>challenge and more interesting, fundamentally, there's also a limit to that. Right.

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 1>It's like at a certain point, if we're to asymmetrical,

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 1>generally we consider that's considered less beautiful. Like if one

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 1>side of your face is super different than the other, right, Like,

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 1>is there is there a sweet spot? Yeah? Absolutely, And

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I think with regards to any sort of whether it's

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 1>the human form or arch design, it's you know, finding

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>that point of tension and how does asymmetry kind of

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 1>react against symmetry and that kind of that liminal place

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 1>where things vibrate. The Monroe the piercing, the scar, the

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.200
<v Speaker 1>hair part, I think is where the experience becomes the

0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>most charged. So if it's everything is purely symmetrical, it's

0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>a very static experience. If it's completely asymmetrical, it's going

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 1>to be chaos. That sweet spot in between and finding

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 1>those moments of yeah, vibration, we respond in the most

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:25.000
<v Speaker 1>exciting kind of ways. Do you think that if you'd

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.119
<v Speaker 1>been born like ten or twenty years earlier, that you

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>would have still had a shot at a modeling career. No,

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. Like what's changed in the industry.

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:39.120
<v Speaker 1>I think generally attitudes have changed towards people that previously

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 1>would have been kind of mothered by society. Like there's

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.679
<v Speaker 1>lots of disabled models now, and transgender models and plus

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 1>sized models, and you know, it's much more of a

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 1>culture of tolerance. Do you think that you're asymmetry is

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.679
<v Speaker 1>like accepted by the industry because you're otherwise very beautiful

0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.159
<v Speaker 1>and symmetrical in a classic way? I think of like

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Cindy Crawford's more, you know, this kind of calling card

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:08.359
<v Speaker 1>against a backdrop of supermodel beauty. Um, yeah, I do

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 1>think so. It's funny. I mean, whenever I've been told

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to lose weight, which obviously has happened. I always think,

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of, you know, such a cheek, isn't it? Like

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm allowed to have a lazy eye as long as

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 1>I haven't got like back rolls or a fatass. But

0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.439
<v Speaker 1>I also think that the truth is that it's you know,

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>usually it's the imperfection that gives something its own kind

0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.560
<v Speaker 1>of sparkle. And also it's what kind of draws interest

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.680
<v Speaker 1>because the meaning is kind of closed, otherwise there's nowhere

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 1>to go with it, Like, what do you mean by that?

0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>How do you see the relationship generally between beauty and symmetry.

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.920
<v Speaker 1>I think that physical imperfections are suggestive of something internal,

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.760
<v Speaker 1>and they invite analysis in a way that perfection doesn't

0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:54.879
<v Speaker 1>really And that's what I mean when I say that

0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.639
<v Speaker 1>the meaning is closed. A perfection is that there's no

0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 1>past to read into it, and there's no kind of

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 1>future to extrapolate it. Just it doesn't suggest identity or individuality.

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.919
<v Speaker 1>Marphi says she has mixed feelings about the fact that

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.119
<v Speaker 1>her lazy eye receives so so much attention in her career.

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 1>None of us are reducible to just one feature, but

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, I think it's kind of wonderful.

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 1>And if it's, you know, managed to function as a

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of invitation for other people to exercise a bit

0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.640
<v Speaker 1>of self forgiveness for their flaws and all the rest

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 1>of it, then I feel, you know, really kind of

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 1>touched and quite humbled really to have anything to do

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 1>with that. The throngs of crazed fans camped outside my

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.920
<v Speaker 1>podcast mansion often tell me that I have a perfectly

0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.000
<v Speaker 1>symmetrical broadcast voice, so you may be surprised to learn

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 1>that my face is not particularly symmetrical at all. The

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:55.879
<v Speaker 1>left side of my mouth tilts up. It's always the

0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.359
<v Speaker 1>first to start smiling, which can make the right half

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>of my face look like it's just a it was

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.960
<v Speaker 1>disappointed in you, like there were staff cuts. So I

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.240
<v Speaker 1>am playing both good cop and bad cop at the

0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 1>same time. Why is symmetry beautiful? Symmetrical faces indicate good

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>genes and developmental resilience, strong reproductive stock. But we ask

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>more of faces than to be only beautiful. We want

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.639
<v Speaker 1>to connect, to see the flash of anger or delight,

0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the lust or tenderness as it breaks across the brow

0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>or ripples the muscles of the jaw. We want to

0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 1>know who the face belongs to and what she makes

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.160
<v Speaker 1>of us. We don't just look at faces. We look

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to them to reveal an inner life, fortified by past

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>triumphs and freighted with the old hurts. We want to

0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.560
<v Speaker 1>know how the pretty face on the magazine is related

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.480
<v Speaker 1>to the little girl at the sleeve bar with a

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 1>doll and a private prayer. Next time I'm deeply human,

0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.080
<v Speaker 1>we'll be asking why do you see faces and clouds?

0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 1>And why does the creaking of an old house freak

0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 1>you out, even though you are positive you're the only

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 1>one home. In short, why are we so eager to

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:18.119
<v Speaker 1>perceive other creatures everywhere and in everything? Within the human brain,

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 1>we have specialized systems for detecting other social animals, and

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.360
<v Speaker 1>we have, if you like, dedicated mechanisms for identifying others

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and their form and their shapes and their movements. I mean,

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.120
<v Speaker 1>I could hear his voice so clearly. I didn't feel

0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 1>a worn Somebody said, Oh, I feel like there was

0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.679
<v Speaker 1>somebody behind me touching me. He was not me, he

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:46.639
<v Speaker 1>felt creepy. Guy said, I felt like that there was

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:52.440
<v Speaker 1>a monkey replicating my movements on my back. Deeply Human

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 1>is a BBC World Service in American public media co

0:21:55.720 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>production with I Heart Media. Oh and if you want

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 1>to know what happens when you ask a very modest,

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.359
<v Speaker 1>self effacing model describe her own face, it's pretty cute.

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.560
<v Speaker 1>They are kind of thick at the bit where they

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of approach each other in between my um, you know,

0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:20.879
<v Speaker 1>upstairs with my nose? Did you say hold on? Did

0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.040
<v Speaker 1>you just say the upstairs of your nose? Is that

0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.080
<v Speaker 1>this phrase that you just said? And my cheeks are

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:34.520
<v Speaker 1>probably quite cheeky as well. Quite my mouth is kind

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 1>of medium size. I'd say stop, So I'm going to

0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 1>cut in. You know, I'm gonna cut in because like

0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.720
<v Speaker 1>as someone who's read about your face, like as other

0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 1>people are writing about it. Um, this is just hilarious

0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.399
<v Speaker 1>because I'm you know, other writers are like her lips

0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:02.520
<v Speaker 1>are pillowy, like I got a medium sized mouth, ask