1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio hits the Big Take. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm West Kasova. Each weekday we dig into one important story, 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: and today Egypt. It's hosting this year's UN Climate Summit, 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: and rising temperatures there show what will happen everywhere if 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: we don't get serious about global warming. Leaders around the 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: globe getting together starting November six for the annual U 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: n Climate Change Conference. It's known this year as COP 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: seven because it's the one since the first one back 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: in the idea, of course, to try to slow the 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: warming of the world, and that is a tall challenge 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: at the moment. With inflation and energy prices staring, some 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: countries are putting climate promises on hold and leaning back 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: into dirty fuel like coal and gas. One of the 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: country's hardest hit by rising temperatures is Egypt. It's getting 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: harder at twice the pace of some other nations. Mike 16 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Hallig Lava Milan in Madrid joins me. Now she reades 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: about climate and she's covering the conference. Laura, thanks for 18 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: being here, Thanks so much for having me. Can you 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: give us just a little refreshing course exactly what is 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: capped and what are they going to try to accomplish 21 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: their cop Tent seven is the most important climate gathering 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: of the year. It's sponsored by the United Nations and 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: during this meeting, climate negotiators from all the countries in 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: the world meet. The ultimate goal for all of them 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: is to avoid catastrophic climate change. So at the moment, 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: the planet is warming at a very fast pace, and 27 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: if it continues like that, at the end of the century, 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: we will have reached a level of warming of three 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: degrees celsius compared to pre industrial times, so that will 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: make some parts of the world unlivable. The mission of 31 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: these negotiators is to find measures to cut greenhouse gas 32 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: emissions in order to lower the level of warming. So 33 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: in when the Paris Climate Treaty was signed, which set big, 34 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: ambitious goals for all the world to follow to do 35 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying, slow the rate of climate change, 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: they set this goal of to degrees celsius. They were 37 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: gonna try to keep the warming to that rate, and 38 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: yet we're seeing it kind of creep above that already 39 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: in some countries. Is it cynical of me to ask? 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: Every year they come together, politicians and scientists and activists 41 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: all have this conversation. It's all very serious, and they 42 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: come forward with pleasures that they signed, and there's big 43 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: photos taken and not a lot really happens after that. Well, 44 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: that's one way to see it. Science tells us that 45 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: warming below to the Greek Celsius by the end of 46 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: the century is possible if we got the missions fast. 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: Science also tells us that we have the technologies we 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: need to lower the level of worming. And what would 49 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: some of those be, those technologies that exists if we 50 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: would just use them. Things that we are all familiar 51 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: with today, like renewable energy, like better installation of homes 52 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: or electric vehicles. All those sorts of things would help 53 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: us lower emissions a long way. All these talks help. 54 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: You have to imagine it in a way. You can 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: imagine like COP is the top of a very long process, 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: and at the end of that process are things like, 57 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: for example, if you get in your country tax rebates 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: for buying an e bike or an electric vehicle. It 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: all starts at COPS. These big, big objectives are set 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: at the COP meetings every year. We all must speed 61 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: up our race to net zero. The United States are 62 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: not only back at the table, but hopefully leading by 63 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: the power of our example fronts. But broadly, the Open 64 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: Union as well as the United Kingdom are today ready 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: to meet their commitment. India the only big economy in 66 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: the world that has delivered both in letter and spirit 67 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: on its Paris commitments. Last year, the Cup Climates was 68 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: in Glasgow and at the end of it, the big 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: goal that they set there was each country was going 70 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: to go home and do some homework. They were going 71 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: to set new goals for each of their countries on 72 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: what they could do to limit the you know, increase 73 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: in the Earth's temperature coming into copy. Have those countries 74 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: actually all submitted those plans? No, they haven't. Between Copton 75 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: T six last year and Coptain seven this year, a 76 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: lot has happened in the world. I mean, let's just 77 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: name them. We have Russia invading Ukraine, which has put 78 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: a huge pressure on energy and cause energy spikes, had 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: huge heat spikes. What else, We've got food shortages, We've 80 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: got inflation. So governments across the world have been super 81 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: busy trying to deal with the immediate problems. Maybe they 82 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: haven't been as busy thinking about the problems of what 83 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: happens at the end of the century or in ten 84 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: twenty fifty years time, So that's part of the reason 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: why many of them haven't submitted new climate plants. Also, 86 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: the language for the decision for at COP ten to 87 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: six was a bit vague. It wasn't super clear that 88 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: every country in the world had to submit new targets. 89 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: So given what you just said, does it seemed to you, 90 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: as someone who covers this all the time, that climate 91 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: is always this very urgent important thing until anything else happens, 92 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: and then it's one of the first things to be 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of pushed aside for more immediate concerns, and everybody says, well, yeah, 94 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: it's important that we had to deal with this first. 95 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: I think it used to be like that, but it 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: isn't like that anymore. There is a tendency to do 97 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: that when you have the immediate word in Ukraine, the 98 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: risk of blackouts in Europe this winter. But it's also 99 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: true that because the world swarming at such a fast space, 100 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: we are seeing already the effects of climate change in 101 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: the form of extreme weather events everywhere right now. So 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: this is forcing politicians who might have the temptation to 103 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: just walk away from this and focus on the problems 104 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: of today. It's forcing them to realize that climate change 105 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: is actually a problem of today. And one of the 106 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: places where we are seeing the real results of climate 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: change right now is Egypt, where this year's conference is 108 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: being held. And I mean, I guess you could say 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: that Egypt is sort of the case study of what 110 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: happens if the world doesn't get serious about climate change. 111 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,239 Speaker 1: Can you describe what is happening with Egyptian Wyatt's become 112 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: such an urgent problem there. Egypt is a country that's 113 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: already covered by desert. The part that's not covered by 114 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: desert is the Nile River. Flows from the Nile River 115 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: are diminishing because it's raining less upstreme and also because 116 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: country is like Ethiopia, while Ethiopia basically is building a 117 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: giant dam upstream denial, so that means less water for Egypt. 118 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: At the same time, Egypt is being impacted by sea 119 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: level rice from the Mediterranean which is flooding the Delta 120 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: and wreaking crops from cotton to all sorts of of 121 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: grains essential to feed Egypt. Basically, because the country is 122 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: desert itself, a lot of it it's affected by increasing heat, 123 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: especially in cities which are becoming bigger because life in 124 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: the countryside is becoming difficult. What we're seeing in Egypt 125 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: is that it is warming at twice the rate of 126 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: the rest of the planet. Yes, so we know that 127 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: Egypt is warming about twice as fast as the rest 128 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: of the planet. And we know that if temperatures keep 129 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: increasing globally at this space, some parts of Egypt with 130 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: the temperatures as high as fifty degrees celsius, for example, 131 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: during heat waves, we know the average temperature in the 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: country will rise by almost five degrees. This will mean 133 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: that life in many places in Egypt will become almost 134 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: impossible or really challenging. So I should say for those 135 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: people listening in the US, we're talking about two degrees celsius, 136 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: but we're talking about is three point six series in fahrenheaving. 137 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: So if we're looking at the potential for five degrees 138 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: celsius increased, that's nine degrees fahrenheit, So a very large 139 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: leap and one that would have absolutely devastating effects. What 140 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: do you think, given all of this, we can expect 141 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: from the CAP twenty seven conference or what are the 142 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: goals that they're trying to accomplish. So this Compton to 143 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: seven will not end with one big agreement like we 144 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: saw in Paris in twenty fifteen, for example. What the 145 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: organizers are saying is that this is an implementation COP. 146 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: What that means is that all the agreements that have 147 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: been signed over the years they need to advance. They 148 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: want to make sure all these little agreements or big 149 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: agreements that have been signed through the years advanced. We 150 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: will not have possibly a big headline coming out from COP, 151 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: but it also means that implementation, that the actually how 152 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: this becomes a reality will advance. And this is actually 153 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: them almost as important as one big headline statement. My 154 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: conversation with Laura will continue, but first I'd like to 155 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: bring in my colleagues Salma l or Dainy for a 156 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: view from Egypt. That's just after the break. We're going 157 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: to continue our conversation now with Sama l our Dainy, 158 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: energy reporter based in Cairo, someone we've been hearing all 159 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: about how politicians are talking at a very high level 160 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: about what nations can do working together to slow climate change. 161 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: You've gone out into Egypt where the CAP twenty seven 162 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: conferences being held to talk to people who are experiencing 163 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: it right now. And Egypt, which is warming faster than 164 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: the rest of the planet, UH is seeing the effects 165 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: that everyone is talking about in these rooms, UH, in 166 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: their everyday lives. Can you tell us what you saw 167 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: and what people told you. So farmers, especially in the 168 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: area where I did my story and where most of 169 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: egypt food production and agriculture has been and has been historically, 170 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: that's the delta. Egypt farmers have lived their whole lives 171 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: and the lives of the grand grandparents on these lands, 172 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: and now the nile is shrinking and the water doesn't 173 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: reach them anymore, especially in the case of bal Team, 174 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: the village where my story is. That's the top point 175 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: in the delta strip, which means that it's almost touching 176 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean Sea, which also means it's vulnerable to the 177 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: soil southernization because of the rise of the sea levels. 178 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Some of you spoke to one farmer and let's hear 179 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: just a bit of what he said. The water quality 180 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: is not helping and it's affecting the soil. I can't 181 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: give it enough water, so it affects the crops, rice, cotton, 182 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: in the all produce. In the past, we could farm 183 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: with less water. It was good water. It was a 184 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: fresh nile water. Now we're drinking treated wastewater in this 185 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: whole area of around five thou dens. Everyone's drinking wastewater, 186 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: not fresh water. We've been suffering from this water for 187 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: more than twenty years. So yes, this is one of 188 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: the farmers that I spoke with during my trip. His 189 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: name is Shoklem Hamadad the Salem, and what he's talking 190 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: about is a very is an everyday problem, and it's 191 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: not just related to agriculture. Is actually related like what 192 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: he's saying to even like the drinking water, the consumption 193 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: of water. So while team is on the last line 194 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: of it's it's part of delta, but it's it's pouring 195 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: into the Mediterranean. So there's there's actually a beach there. 196 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: But at the same time there are farmers. The main 197 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: the main activity is farming there. And because it's very 198 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: close to the Mediterranean, that's the water is very salty 199 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: and the soil is very salty, and there's very scarce 200 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: water resources, whether it's for irrigation or for consumption, and 201 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: it's not fit for human consumption. For it to be 202 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: to be fit for consumption, even they have to do 203 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: a lot of treatment and which they not all of 204 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: them can necessarily afford. And one of the big problems 205 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: seems to be is salonization. That the water is becoming 206 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: just extremely salty, yes, correct, And for that it means 207 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: the water, unlike other places, maybe in Egypt, the water 208 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: is very very high in salt, which means it needs 209 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: a lot of treatment, and it needs a lot of 210 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: chemicals to you know, to to make it barely you know, 211 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: fits for agriculture, let alone drinking. Now you spoke to 212 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: the same farm her son who is also working the land, 213 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: and he talked about this problem with salt, which is 214 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: essentially poisoning the water and making it unfit. The salionization 215 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: is what's harming us the most. It makes us want 216 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: to live here and go farm elsewhere, like in the 217 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: desert where there aren't high salt levels. Here the salt 218 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: concentration is high both in the soil and in the water. 219 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: This farming water, as you can see here, is not 220 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: fit for irrigation or agriculture. When you were there, were 221 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: you able to see salt just sitting on top of 222 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: the land that had essentially been left from the water. Yes, 223 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: I it was very very visibility. You can see the 224 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: white crust all over the crops. It's it's it's very 225 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: alarming to see. And it's even for them, like for 226 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: the farmers there, even for them, it's it's like a 227 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: new phenomena um. And that's after they spent you know, 228 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: the very little savings and the very little money they 229 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: spent a lot of money on on treatment. And you know, 230 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: I'm getting the water almost look like you know, fresh 231 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: water that you would use for irrigation of mr. We 232 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: take matters into our own hands. Our group of farmers 233 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: living around this irrigation canal, collect money from each other, 234 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: clean the canal and remove the drainage from it. Then 235 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: we use the water to grow acrops. Do people like 236 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: him have faith in the Egyptian government to address this? 237 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: Obviously the country is suffering quite a bit, so it 238 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: is unauthorized. You have to get up an an authorization 239 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: to be able to protest. And at the same time, 240 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: especially in marginalized areas like bald Team. Weald Team is, 241 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: like I said, the furthest point of the delta line, 242 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: so the services is not as good as further down 243 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: on the delta line. So these people. They lack government services, 244 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: and the government at the same time is railing from 245 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: the effect of the war in Ukraine and before the pandemic, 246 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: and there's not enough finances. And that's why you see 247 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: you here all the time, the calls to get finances. 248 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: And for even farmers that I spoke to in this 249 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: very distant village, they were saying they hope that COP 250 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: seven they will be able to get like finance and 251 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: funding for the lands because they need it and because 252 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: the government cannot afford that. So even these farmers who 253 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: live far away from where government leaders around the world, 254 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: they're discussing this question. Even they are aware of CAP 255 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: twenty seven, are actually looking to it to see if 256 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: something will be done. Yes, yes, I was fascinated. Like 257 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: they're following the news. They know about it very well. 258 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: Some of them are obviously cynical, but a lot of 259 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: them is following it and they hope that it's going 260 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: to affect their lives and it's going to avail funds 261 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: that they need, the urgently need to save the lands 262 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: and save the and feed them basically feed the kids. 263 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: If you look down the road five years or ten 264 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: years from now, Um, what will happen to agriculture if 265 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: nothing is done to can slow the pace of climate 266 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: change on the Nile. So again the problem in ease 267 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: of is that the countries is very dependent on the 268 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: Nine River and the farming and irrigation is about fresh 269 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: water comes from the river rather than the rainfall as 270 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: the case in other countries. So this is now contributing 271 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: to make an age of even more vulnerable to climate 272 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: change due to its primary in the dependence on the Nile, 273 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: and that's effecting everything. Yields for for food crops are 274 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: projected to decline due to higher temperature and water stress 275 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: and increased salinity of irrigation water, which means more exports, 276 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: which means more pressure on the country's finances and budgets. 277 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me, Sugar. 278 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: Thank you. After the break, my conversation with Laura Milan 279 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: continues and we're going to explore some possible solutions to 280 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: the climb the crisis Lavera. So we're just listening to 281 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: some people in Egypt who are suffering the effects of 282 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: what's happening from climate change right now, seeing what's happening 283 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: when the Nile is greatly affected and makes it harder 284 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: to plant crops and just harder to go about daily life. 285 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: When you look at what's happening in a country like Egypt, 286 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: which is not a big contributor to climate change, but 287 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: is suffering the results from other nations. Really, what are 288 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: we seeing in the cop Climate Conference world among these 289 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: people who study this all the time about the responsibility 290 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: of larger nations too smaller nations to try to reduce 291 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: the effects. Well, that's actually going to be one of 292 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: the main themes at coptal TO seventh conference this year, 293 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: partly because, like you say, it's a big issue, but 294 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: also because the conference is happening in Africa for the 295 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: first time in a few years, and that always means 296 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: that these sort of issues have a bigger presence. What's 297 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: happening and what the ve it is about is that 298 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: developing nations have not emitted historically as many emissions, nearly 299 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: as many emissions as developed nations as rich nations, so 300 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: they have contributed comparatively very little to the warming of 301 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: the planet, and yet they're bearing the consequences of that 302 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: warming disproportionately. These countries are seeking compensation from return nations 303 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: and help when it comes to facing these terrible consequences, 304 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: will those nations actually pay out? Because there was supposed 305 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: to be a big payout from return nations to less 306 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: wealthy nations for exactly this purpose, and they can never 307 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: paid right. I think what you're referring to is the 308 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: a promise of hundred billion dollar per year of climate 309 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: finance to the developing nations, and that PLEDs that was 310 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: signed at the copy in Copenhagen has never been fulfilled. 311 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: Developing countries are asking that that is fulfilled. That as 312 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: a starting point, but actually calculations from experts and scientists 313 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: say that developing nations actually need much more money to 314 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: recover from the extreme weather events that are suffering because 315 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: of climate change. It is unlikely that developed nations come 316 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: out of this cop happy. Hopefully some sort of agreements, 317 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: some sort of mechanism will be agreed upon. And what 318 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: are some of those things? I mean you talked about 319 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: mechanisms that they can put in place. What would they 320 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: be that developing nations would get from the more developed 321 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: countries more than around figure what developing nations would be 322 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: looking for this time is what they call a mechanism, 323 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: so that means a system by which every time there 324 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: is an extreme weather event that HiT's a country let's 325 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: say Pakistan, for examt people, which has terrible slots, then 326 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: there is a system by which funding can flow very 327 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: quickly into the country, because it's been studies say that 328 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: the faster you react to one of these extreme weather events, 329 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: the faster you can recover from it. What kind of 330 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: like we were talking before that you know, climate is 331 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: at the forefront until immediate concerns wind up superseding them. 332 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: There's always this kind of tension there between trying to 333 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: ultimately save the planet from overheating and trying to keep 334 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: immediate economic pain from hurting people. And so if you 335 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: have very high prices for fuel and you have inflation 336 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: everywhere and people are having a hard time, politicians around 337 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: the world they're saying, well, I don't know, maybe just temporarily, 338 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to using coal. We're seeing that 339 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: certainly in China. We're even seeing some politicians in the 340 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: US saying, no, this is not the time to be 341 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: talking about renewable fuels. We need to get people back 342 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: to work and be able to you know, heat homes. 343 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: So at what point do you think there's going to 344 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: be the feeling that when there's a crisis like the 345 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: one we're in now, politicians say, no, this is the 346 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: time where we have to say we're gonna take our 347 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: pain right now in order to invest in clean energy 348 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: that will get us through it from now. I think 349 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: we've already seen this with the coronavirus crisis. So in Europe, 350 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: all the lockdowns forced governments to basically spend lots of 351 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: money to try to revive the economy, and they pass 352 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: huge economic packages, and the European Union made very clear 353 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: that it wasn't growth or climate it was growth through 354 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: fighting climate change. What they made was all countries to 355 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: commit to spending at least a third of European recovery 356 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: funds in green policies. I think in a way, countries 357 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: and envisions are still keeping climate change in mind when 358 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: it comes to this recovery, to to this economic crisis. 359 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: The message is that yes, there is a turn to 360 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: call in some countries to cover these immediate needs. But 361 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: over the long term, the hope is that the past 362 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: towards the low emissions economy and towards net zero by 363 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: mid century continues. Are there countries in the world that 364 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: exert more pressure more effectively than others and countries to 365 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: meet these more ambitious goals. Yes, absolutely so. When we 366 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: talk about the talks that cop traditionally the US has 367 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: been obviously as as the world's beecause economy and as 368 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: the worlds also the world's bigguse emitter, they have had 369 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: huge weight in these talks. And this changed a bit 370 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: during a from a president from SPUNDAID because he had 371 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: a very different vision on climate. But the US has 372 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: come back as a leader of these negotiations under President Biden, 373 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: and we expect them to send a huge delegation to 374 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: COP and seven putting pressure on other nations to cut 375 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: coal use specifically, but also to cut greenhouse gas emissions 376 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: in general. Other key players are the European Union as well. 377 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: Another interesting player this year will be Australia, which changed 378 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: governments in the middle of the year. Other players to 379 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: watch that are not the typical ones on when we 380 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: talk about international discussions are the small island nations. So 381 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: these are really truly at the forefront that that you know, 382 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: they're battling climate change physically at their homes every day, 383 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: and we're talking about islands like Barbados and other nations 384 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: in the Pacific and in the Caribbean. Leaders from these 385 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: nations have traditionally been really, really vocal in this forum, 386 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: and they have compared to the relative size of their 387 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: economies and their countries, they have a huge weight in 388 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: these negotiations. Is there a point of no return that 389 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: the people who think about this study attend these conferences 390 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: have in mind, where if we don't do something about it, 391 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: it's just going to be too late. This is an 392 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: ongoing debate among scientists. Some scientists will say that we've 393 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: already reached that point of no return and that all 394 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: that we are doing now is just avoiding catastrophe. There 395 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: are people that will say, well, this is true, but 396 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: still not all is lost. There is time to make 397 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: things not that, But I personally would like to focus 398 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: on this glass huffle. Bill Blara, thanks so much for 399 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: taking the time talk to me. Thank you so much 400 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: for having me, Thanks for listening to us here at 401 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: the Big Take the Daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 402 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. From more shows from my Heart Radio, visit 403 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. 404 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: Read Today's story and described to our daily newsletter at 405 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take, and we'd love to 406 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: hear from you. Email us with questions or comments to 407 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of 408 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: The Big Take is Vicky Burgalina. Our senior producer is 409 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: Katherine Fink. Our producer is Frederica Romaniello. Our associate producer 410 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: is zenib Sidiki. Hilda Garcia is our engineer. Original music 411 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. If you want to hear more about 412 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: what's going on at Top, check out our sister podcast. 413 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: It's called Zero. They're heading to Egypt and they'll be 414 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: reporting all the latest from the conference. I'm West Kasova. 415 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take.