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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's us Josh and Chuck, and we want

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Speaker 1: you to know we are coming somewhere near you. We're

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Speaker 1: sure if you live in North America this year.

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Speaker 2: That's right, We're going on tour, and uh, why don't

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Speaker 2: we just rattle through these dates?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Toronto August eighth at the dan Forth Music Hall.

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Speaker 1: Chicago August ninth, the next day at Harris Theater.

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Speaker 2: Then we are taking some time off to recover after

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Speaker 2: that two day grind. We're hitting Vancouver the Vogue Theater

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Speaker 2: September twenty sixth, followed by Minneapolis.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be at the Pantagious Theater again on

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Speaker 1: September twenty seventh, that is correct, yep. And then Austin

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Speaker 1: Chuck on October tenth at the Paramount Theater.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and very special show in Lawrence, Kansas at Liberty

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Speaker 2: Hall on October eleventh, yep.

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Speaker 1: And then we're going to do a three night stand

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Speaker 1: October twenty second, twenty third, and twenty fourth at the

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Speaker 1: Bellhouse in Brooklyn, New York. And then Chuck, take it.

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Speaker 2: Home, well take it home literally, because we are finishing

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Speaker 2: up November fourth right here in Atlanta the Bucket Theater

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Speaker 2: and this is a very special benefit show and all

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Speaker 2: the proceeds we'll be going to Lifeline Animal Project of

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Speaker 2: Atlanta and the National Down Syndrome Society YEP.

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Speaker 1: And for more information in Dubai tickets, just go to

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Speaker 1: s y SK live dot com. Welcome to Stuff you

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Speaker 1: Should Know from HowStuffWorks dot com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, Charles W. Chuck, Bryant Tudy.

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Speaker 1: His middle names Wayne, middle names Malcolm. There we have.

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Speaker 2: I always forget about that Malcolm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Wayne named after Wayne Cooin.

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Speaker 2: Right, Uh no, John, Wayne, and you were named after

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Speaker 2: Malcolm in the Middle.

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Speaker 1: That's right, right. Frankie Munis is my namesake. I hope

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Speaker 1: he's okay. Early.

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Speaker 2: Brian Kranston too. I used to love that show.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's a great show. I watched it like within

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Speaker 1: the last couple of months. I was cleaning the house

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Speaker 1: and put it on Netflix and still great. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really it is a good show.

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Speaker 2: So you clean your house, you put on your VR

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Speaker 2: goggles and just cue up Malcolm in the Middle.

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Speaker 1: No, I did walk around and bump into things and

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Speaker 1: right exactly, but I put on like a huge feather

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Speaker 1: duster suit. Yeah, so you're just cleaning and bumping into things.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's how I do it. Wow, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: works kind of Well, someone's going to take that idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they like the Sharknado.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they should just they should sell that suit

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Speaker 2: with a purple drink.

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Speaker 1: I think you just get one spot on the floor,

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Speaker 1: really really clean.

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Speaker 2: What are you going to title this one, by the way,

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Speaker 2: because this was your pick, and we title our own shows.

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Speaker 1: Some horror films that change the genre?

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Speaker 2: All right, and you should add this aka how could

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Speaker 2: you guys forget blank?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, we should say like this. First of all,

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Speaker 1: this is a Grabster article, So it's Grabster's list. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and he knows what he's talking about. If you look

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Speaker 1: at some of the entries, some don't even have source tags.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, he's just like, I just know he should just

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Speaker 2: trust Grabster.

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Speaker 1: But we even took his list and carve some out

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Speaker 1: and put some in. So this is how about this?

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Speaker 1: This is Josh and Chuck's idea of some horror films

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Speaker 1: that change the genre, featuring the mind of the Grabster.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in other words, it is not a complete list

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Speaker 2: of every horror film that changed the genre, yes, because

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Speaker 2: I would argue that well, and actually I see Grabster

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Speaker 2: put Texas Chainsaw Masaker in there.

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Speaker 1: He said that if this were a top fifteen list,

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Speaker 1: that would be in there. So would Alien.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he has that Alien ring and the US remake ring,

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Speaker 2: and I would lobby for Well, Psycho didn't make it

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Speaker 2: onto his list, which but we're going to put that in.

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Speaker 1: And there was one more.

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Speaker 2: Oh, even though I didn't really think it was that great,

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Speaker 2: the movie Saw, I think kind of changed horror films,

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Speaker 2: and that's what this list is, not best horror films,

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Speaker 2: but things that kind of changed the game. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: seems like Saw kind of kicked off.

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Speaker 1: That that torture porn, Yeah, didn't it. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: if it was that or Hostile, one of the two.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely one of the two. For a subgenre, well,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty accurate, actually it is. But most of these

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Speaker 1: are movies that either.

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Speaker 2: Were the first of its kind and maybe did start

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Speaker 2: a subgenre, or movies that were so popular that they

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Speaker 2: just you know, kind of rewrote how people view horror movies.

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Speaker 2: Some of them because of marketing, some because they were

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Speaker 2: really good movies, some because of box office but all

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Speaker 2: of these, I don't think anyone could argue did not

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Speaker 2: change the genre.

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Speaker 1: How about that? Yeah, I think that's well put, dude.

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Speaker 1: And before we get started speaking of horror, I want

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Speaker 1: to give a plug to my friend Toby's movie that's

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Speaker 1: coming out. He's a producer on a movie coming out

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Speaker 1: call The Ghost Story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Toby, when we met Toby, well you knew Toby

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Speaker 2: before me, of course, because he's your friend and I

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Speaker 2: know him through you me, so really yeah, but he

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Speaker 2: was he was small time doing short films and stuff.

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Speaker 2: And since that time, and this has been within the

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Speaker 2: last like since we've been doing this podcast, he's now

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Speaker 2: big time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They did Pete's Dragon, Yeah, and then yeah they

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Speaker 1: have this this they did Ain't Them? Bodied Saints was

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Speaker 1: I think the one that they kind of broke out with,

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Speaker 1: which I love that movie, and then this one is

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Speaker 1: definitely kind of falls into that same look and mood

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Speaker 1: and feel. It's called The Ghost Story, and I think

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Speaker 1: it comes out in July, and I think it's labeled

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Speaker 1: a drama rather than horror or even supernatural or thriller.

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Speaker 1: But the reason I tie it into horror is because

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Speaker 1: A twenty four is releasing it and A twenty four

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Speaker 1: is killing it with horror movies lately. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: good that's a good outfit. They did The Witch, they

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Speaker 1: did The Black Coat's Daughter. Have you seen that? No,

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Speaker 1: it's on Amazon Prime. It's on Amazon Prime right now, dude.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the best horror movies I've seen in

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Speaker 1: a while. I think The Witch is probably my favorite

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Speaker 1: right now. Black Coat Starter is a close second. And

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Speaker 1: then last night I saw it Comes at Night in

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Speaker 1: the theater and it comes at night. Actually upset my

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Speaker 1: stomach that ending? Did it?

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Speaker 2: Was?

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Speaker 1: It was that rough? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we were at a place with horror movies

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Speaker 2: that we haven't been in a long time, like a

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Speaker 2: really genuine good spot. Yeah, Like the whole torture porn

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Speaker 2: sort of era is over and the found footage thing

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Speaker 2: is so played.

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Speaker 1: Oh man.

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Speaker 2: But I think we like with movies like The Witch,

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Speaker 2: I think we've really like there are some really creative

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Speaker 2: uh it follows Did you see that one? Yeah, Like

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Speaker 2: some just really creative ways of bringing scares that I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen before.

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Speaker 1: Get Out. That was amazing to get Out, Man, I

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Speaker 1: still I haven't seen it. You're gonna love it. I'm

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Speaker 1: envious of you. It's really it's great movie chucking. I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't get to the movies much anymore, and

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Speaker 2: the only time I could was a couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: ago and I liketed to see Wonder Woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not a good choice.

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Speaker 2: So a long way of saying congratulations to Toby and

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Speaker 2: his new film.

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Speaker 1: Well it's funny. We also need to congratulate Toby too,

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Speaker 1: because Toby just got married. Toby and Nell are now married,

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Speaker 1: so congratulations to them as well.

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Speaker 2: So this is this new movie with a his directing

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Speaker 2: partner David.

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Speaker 1: Lowry yeah yeah, and Rooney Mara going yeah, they definitely do.

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna be good. I'm looking forward to it. Awesome. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's get started. Thanks for indulging that. Thank you everybody.

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Speaker 1: So the first, the first movie on our list is

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Speaker 1: what's widely considered the first horror movie, and it's a

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty movie out of Germany that basically was the

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Speaker 1: first film that undertook what's the artistic movement known as

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Speaker 1: German Expressionism. Yeah, it's called The Cabinet of Doctor Kalighari.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean some say, like you said, it was

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Speaker 2: the first horror movie. Some say it was the first

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Speaker 2: cult film. It well, just you may not be able

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Speaker 2: to get tough the whole thing if you're not into

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Speaker 2: silent movies, but you should queue up a little bit

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Speaker 2: of it and watch a little bit of it because

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Speaker 2: it's hugely impactful and still to this day like very

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Speaker 2: disconcerting to look at because of it how ominous and

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Speaker 2: weird it looked, Yeah, just physically looked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Like the sets that they built are obviously constructive manufactured.

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Speaker 1: They were not in any way, shape or form, going

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Speaker 1: for realism. They were going for surrealism for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so like the staircases are at crazy weird curves

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Speaker 1: and angles, and like everything from the house, the house's

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Speaker 1: rooftops to the blades of grass are super pointy and sharp,

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Speaker 1: and the shadows that they employed were just perfect. You've

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Speaker 1: never seen a better use of shadows than this. They

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Speaker 1: didn't get in the way, They just created this mood.

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Speaker 1: And it was the first movie to really kind of

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Speaker 1: do that, to just take to use the camera for

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Speaker 1: something other than capturing realism. And for that reason, it's

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Speaker 1: considered the first horror movie because that that's such a

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Speaker 1: standard part of horror, whether large like in large part

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Speaker 1: like in a Tim Burton movie, or in small part.

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Speaker 1: You know where you're you're using small spaces to create claustrophobia.

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Speaker 1: The idea of using the set to mess with the

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Speaker 1: viewer's mind, I think is born in doctor Kaligary's cabinet. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like they took a child and gave them

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Speaker 2: construction paper and said cut out scary things, right, and

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Speaker 2: then like like that movie The Baba Duke, I think

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Speaker 2: the actual book within The Baba Duke was hugely inspired

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Speaker 2: by this. The actual movie itself. The plot is about

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Speaker 2: a side show operator, a hypnotist who has a patient

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Speaker 2: that he takes around to the side shows with a

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Speaker 2: sleep disorder. Supposedly he's been asleep his entire life, and

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Speaker 2: he uses this patient to commit murder.

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Speaker 1: Right, he's like a sleepwalker, yeah, somnambulist.

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Speaker 2: So that in itself is a pretty frightening plot. And

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Speaker 2: to think about that being cooked up in nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: when there were really not such things that you think

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Speaker 2: of as horror movies is pretty impressive.

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Speaker 1: And then some of the deeper critiques I've seen of

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Speaker 1: it was like the explanation for why the filmmakers chose

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Speaker 1: like these weird odd angles to kind of depict insanity

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Speaker 1: or that kind of thing. Yeah, was rooted in World

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Speaker 1: War One. The horrors of World War One had just

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Speaker 1: been seen and revealed and recently taken place, and it

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Speaker 1: upended Europe in general and especially Germany as well. And

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Speaker 1: that the idea is that they might not have had

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Speaker 1: this idea, They might not have had this desire, this

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Speaker 1: drive to create this this weird set and in fact,

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Speaker 1: this weird movie had World War One not happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this writer, Jeff Saparito, who kind of put

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Speaker 2: it this way about German expressionism because that wasn't exactly

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Speaker 2: sure how to define it, but you're kind of rite

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Speaker 2: on the money.

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Speaker 1: He said.

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Speaker 2: Germany was largely isolated from the rest of the world

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Speaker 2: following World War One, so expressionism therefore became confined to

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Speaker 2: the country. Refers to a number of creative movements from

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Speaker 2: World War One through the nineteen twenties. Expressionist works examined

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Speaker 2: the current and future state of the culture through bold

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Speaker 2: and artistic creations of creativity, and often explored topics of madness, betrayal,

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Speaker 2: and other intellectual concepts. And nothing encapsulates these ideas more

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Speaker 2: than the cabinet.

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Speaker 1: Of Doctor That's basically what I said. Yeah, you did

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Speaker 1: you read that or were you just that? I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I read that one or not. It sounded

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Speaker 1: kind of familiar. Yeah, no, just say you came up

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Speaker 1: with that. So the idea of the set just creating

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Speaker 1: like a creepy tone and texture to everything that was

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Speaker 1: Doctor Calgary. That's how it changed the genre.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Tim Burton say thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you seen Coraline? No? But I know it.

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Speaker 1: It's they did that to very good effect.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think Hodgman does a voice in that, doesn't.

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Speaker 1: He he does, He does the dad. He did a

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Speaker 1: spectacular job because you actually forget it's Hodgman while you're

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Speaker 1: watching it. That's impossible. All right, Chuck, Moving on, that

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Speaker 1: was nineteen twenty. We're going to fast forward all the

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Speaker 1: way to what nineteen sixty nineteen sixty three. If you're

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Speaker 1: talking about Blood Feast, Well I wasn't, but.

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Speaker 2: Lets Simon Abrams of Roger Ebert dot Com says, this

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Speaker 2: Blood Feast is a terrible film, and a historically important

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Speaker 2: one too. Yep, And I think that's sort of the

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Speaker 2: deal with Blood Feast. It is not good by any accounts.

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Speaker 1: Did you watch any of it? Yeah, sure, it's not good. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not good. It's terrible.

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Speaker 2: It was written basis on a fourteenth page outline, didn't

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Speaker 2: even have a script.

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Speaker 1: It's got the same cold, cloying technic color of like

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Speaker 1: an early Hawaii five zero episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, directed by Herschel Gordon Lewis and producer

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Speaker 2: David F. Friedman, And basically the idea was this, these

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Speaker 2: guys did not see films as art. They saw them

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Speaker 2: as a business and thought you were foolish if you

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Speaker 2: thought it was anything else. So they sat around they

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Speaker 2: brainstormed movies that they thought no one else would make.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Because they started out making like Porky's esque type movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they were doing fine with that. But apparently they

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Speaker 1: were successful enough with it that there started to be

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Speaker 1: imitators and the market was crowded. So they said, where

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Speaker 1: can we go make movies that no one else is

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Speaker 1: gonna make?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we want to shock people, essentially. So a

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Speaker 2: couple of ideas they had that did not make the

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Speaker 2: list was con Man evangelists and Nazi torture, which were

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Speaker 2: later made exactly and they finally said, you know what

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Speaker 2: no one's really done yet is hardcore gore yep, Like

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Speaker 2: everyone always cuts away when the knife come and you're like,

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Speaker 2: what if we showed the grossest glorious stuff imaginable on screen?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even still they didn't show so like one

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Speaker 1: of the first murder woman stabbed through the eye and

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Speaker 1: then the murder hacked her legs off of the machete, right,

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Speaker 1: And they didn't show the knife penetrate the eye. They

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Speaker 1: didn't show the machete making contact with the skin. But

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Speaker 1: what they did in blood Feasts and what made blood

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Speaker 1: Feasts the first of its kind was they would show

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Speaker 1: the what came after that. They would show the brains

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Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, they would show the entrails like

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Speaker 1: on the knife. They would show the leg being you know,

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Speaker 1: that had been dismembered, being put into a bag, and

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Speaker 1: like the wound that was left by Yeah, like that.

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Speaker 1: This was huge. No one had ever done anything like

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Speaker 1: that on film before. No, and it paid off.

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Speaker 2: They depending on who you asked, the budget was anywhere

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Speaker 2: from like twenty to thirty grand, and it made between

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Speaker 2: seven and thirty million dollars. Like I said, depending on

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Speaker 2: where you get your info, but by all accounts, it

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Speaker 2: was a huge financial success, yeah, compared to what they

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Speaker 2: paid to make it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And they shot it in I think six days

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Speaker 1: or something down in Miami. Yeah, based on a fourteen

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Speaker 1: page outline. There wasn't even a scripted as an outline,

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Speaker 1: and basically it was like, murderer goes and kills this girl. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: next girl, murderer comes in, kills girl, cuts off leg

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if it matters the movies about a

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Speaker 2: serial killer caterer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. There's your plot right there. Yep. But

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Speaker 1: the the it was just such a revolutionary movie that

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Speaker 1: the censors at the time there wasn't such a thing

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Speaker 1: as the MPAA hadn't been formed yet, and there was

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Speaker 1: basically no one except for local censors overseeing movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you know, you could be playing in one town

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Speaker 1: all audiences, and then the next town over it could

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Speaker 1: be banned. But the censors had never seen anything like

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Speaker 1: it and they didn't know what to do with it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it was hugely successful commercially too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And another big impact it had was it inspired a

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Speaker 2: generation of special effects. But basically, let's be honest, young

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Speaker 2: boys who were doing this on their own Super eight

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Speaker 2: films right, and said, wait, I can get a job

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Speaker 2: doing this.

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Speaker 1: Yep. So including Tom SAVIGNI I think was inspired by it,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he? Or was he inspired by? Yeah? I think

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Speaker 1: he was inspired by Blood Feast? Oh wow? And then

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Speaker 1: we should also give a mention to the Granguin, y'all?

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Speaker 1: Is that how you think it's pronounced? Sure? Grand Guien y'all.

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Speaker 1: It was a theater in Paris, I believe, from the

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Speaker 1: late nineteenth century onto I think nineteen sixty two, so

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Speaker 1: the year before Blood Feast came out it had closed up.

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Speaker 1: But it used to do this stuff on stage. It

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Speaker 1: was like a gore fest and there was lots of

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Speaker 1: like blood and sex and like depraved themes in the

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Speaker 1: plays that were put on at this theater. People loved it.

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Speaker 1: They were crazy for it. And this was kind of

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Speaker 1: like the Grand Guignol tradition put onto film for the

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Speaker 1: first time and hoooray for that. You want to take

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Speaker 1: a break, Yeah, let's do it, all right, Charles, we're back.

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Speaker 1: So nineteen sixty or nineteen sixty, not eight.

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Speaker 2: I've got nineteen sixty eight in front of My Face

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Speaker 2: and that could be no other movie. The Night of

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Speaker 2: the Living Dead classic George Romero film. Romero was a

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Speaker 2: TV director, making TV commercials commercial director.

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Speaker 1: Rather, he was also making short films for Mister Rogers

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Speaker 1: neighborhood at the time. Yeah, and he was young. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how old he was, but he was

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Speaker 1: pretty young guy still, I guess.

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Speaker 2: I think when he made Shot and Not of the

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Speaker 2: Living Dead, he was like twenty six or twenty seven. Wow,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, by any standard, that's still pretty young, unless

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Speaker 2: you're twenty three.

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Speaker 1: So he had he and his buddies were like, let's

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Speaker 1: make a horror movie, but let's not make a stupid

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Speaker 1: horror movie. Let's make one with like an actual plot

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Speaker 1: that explores like deep themes too, like a good movie.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's make the first good horror movie.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, so, and we'll delve into that little more.

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Speaker 2: But that was definitely a different thing at the time.

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Speaker 2: And the other different thing was that all the horror

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Speaker 2: movies up to that point they were called the Universal

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Speaker 2: monsters from Universal Studios, you know, all the kind of

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Speaker 2: the classic Frankenstein and Dracula and Creature from the Black

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Speaker 2: Lagoon and the Werewolf, and that was where that was

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Speaker 2: mainstream horror. And George Romero comes along and says, how

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Speaker 2: about zombies? And everyone said, what in the world is

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Speaker 2: a zombie? And he said, well, let me define that

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Speaker 2: for every future generation of movie and TV goers and love.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And there had been zombie movies before, but they

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Speaker 1: had been things like like doctor Kaligari's Cabinet, somebody who

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Speaker 1: was under the control of something someone else or something

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Speaker 1: like that, there was a hypnotist or this was like

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Speaker 1: the first time what we think of as zombies. Wherever

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Speaker 1: introduced like flesh eating ghouls who were dead and come

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Speaker 1: back to life. Yeah, just what you think of as

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Speaker 1: a zombie. This guy started that genre, like you said. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They shot it outside in Pittsburgh on about one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifteen thousand dollars budget, ended up grossing twelve million

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Speaker 2: domestic not bad, and I think close to twenty worldwide,

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Speaker 2: and was eventually selected by the Library of Congress for

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Speaker 2: preservation in the National Film Registry.

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Speaker 1: It's a good movie. It's a very good movie.

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Speaker 2: He shot it in black and white to save on cost,

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Speaker 2: even though color was the standard by that point, and

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Speaker 2: black and white is also a little more forgiving for

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Speaker 2: rudimentary special effects. And one of the revolutionary things he

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Speaker 2: did was cast a black actor as the lead and

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Speaker 2: for no other reason than hey, this guy Dwayne Jones

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Speaker 2: is really.

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Speaker 1: Good, exactly right. Like, he didn't go back and go, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, our hero is black, so we need to

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Speaker 1: make the whole thing of meditation on race and have

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Speaker 1: him confront racism. It was just here's the script, and

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Speaker 1: then the guy playing the lead just happens.

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Speaker 2: To be right, and he was the best guy in

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Speaker 2: the auditions. And you know, in nineteen sixty eight, this

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Speaker 2: didn't really happen. You didn't just cast a black guy

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Speaker 2: as a lead actor for no with no like ulterior motive,

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Speaker 2: basically right.

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Speaker 1: So I read this review from the time from nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine, the year after it came out, Young Roger

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Speaker 1: Ebert went and watched it and made a review, and

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Speaker 1: he wrote a pretty pretty interesting review, which is basically

397
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Speaker 1: it was about the reaction of the audience. And he

398
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Speaker 1: went to a Saturday matinee that was populated almost entirely

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Speaker 1: by ten eleven year olds. Oh wow, and they were

400
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Speaker 1: used to seeing the creature from the black Lagoon or

401
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Speaker 1: Frankenstein or you know, just movies that any kid could

402
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Speaker 1: handle and could enjoy watching and you know, fun, scary

403
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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Yeah, and he said, that's how that

404
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Speaker 1: was how the crowd reacted for the first half of

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Speaker 1: the movie. But then about the point where and here's

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Speaker 1: here comes spoilers. Everybody, if you haven't seen Night of

407
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Speaker 1: the Living Dead, to set yourself in the knee with

408
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Speaker 1: a hammer. You the the teenage couple go to get

409
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Speaker 1: gas and when their car blows up and is engulf

410
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Speaker 1: and flames, they die. They're burned to death. He said.

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Speaker 1: Right about that time, the tone, the mood of the

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Speaker 1: theater changed and there was no like gleeful screaming anymore.

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Speaker 1: Kids were starting to like not move and we're afraid

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Speaker 1: to like move in their seats, and some were quietly

415
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Speaker 1: crying to themselves. And from that the whole, the whole

416
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Speaker 1: point on, it just got worse and worse for these

417
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Speaker 1: little kids watching this movie.

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Speaker 2: So it was a huge impact on horror movies a it.

419
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Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, it was kind of the first

420
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Speaker 2: one to really sort of delve into other issues like

421
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Speaker 2: if you look up like significance of neither the living

422
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Speaker 2: dead or meaning of nighted living dead or something like that.

423
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Speaker 2: There score of articles that have been written over the

424
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Speaker 2: years of how it was a metaphor for the Vietnam War,

425
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Speaker 2: or an allegory about distrust of authority or the collapse

426
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Speaker 2: of traditional family. And I think Romero said, like, I

427
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Speaker 2: didn't necessarily mean all these things, but you can certainly

428
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Speaker 2: find it in the movie.

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Speaker 1: That is art. Like, one of the great revelations of

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Speaker 1: my adult life is that the artist, the writer, the songwriter,

431
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Speaker 1: the author rarely intends to imbue as much meaning into

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Speaker 1: their work as people take from it. That that's part

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Speaker 1: of art is interpretation, isn't that neat? Like you don't

434
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Speaker 1: if you're a writer, If you're a young writer right now,

435
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Speaker 1: who's just sitting there racking your brain for how to

436
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: insert metaphor and meaning into this, Just write your story

437
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: and people are going to find it for themselves. Yeah, agreed.

438
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: I wish somebody had told me that. When I was younger, I.

439
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: Had teachers that said stuff like that. Oh I did,

440
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: like good college professors in English that would when students

441
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: would argue like I think he means this, he would say, like,

442
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, he may or she may not have meant anything.

443
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: Right, that's the revelation I had teachers that would just

444
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: go wrong.

445
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: The other thing about Night Living Dead is it spawned, obviously,

446
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: the the zombie genre and sequels, Don of the Dead,

447
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 2: Day of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead, the

448
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: Walking Dead remakes.

449
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: Shout out Stephen Yune. Yeah right, why not? I'm still

450
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: into the Walking Dead. You Yeah, we talked about this, Yes, yes,

451
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: O listens.

452
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, zombies are I think still hot and we can

453
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 2: so hot. We owe that all to mister Romero, master

454
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: of the genre.

455
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: Yep. Took one more thing too, that that Nia Living

456
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: Dead did that they weren't the first, but very famously

457
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: Romero did was kill off his hero senselessly and shockingly.

458
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah at the end, good point, thanks man. Okay, so

459
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: let's move on. Like I said nineteen seventy three, yes

460
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: day after Christmas, if you've ever.

461
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: Been in Washington, d C. At the end of M Street,

462
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: you might have noticed very during the daytime, ordinary set

463
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: of stairs. At nighttime, maybe they look creepy to you

464
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: because those are the Exorcist stairs.

465
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm trying to conjure the music in my head,

466
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: but all I'm coming up with is the Unsolved Mysteries music.

467
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't quite right so close, but it's not it.

468
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm so unsatisfied right now.

469
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 2: So The Exorcist was based on a book by William

470
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: Peter Bladdie who wrote this in nineteen seventy one, and

471
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: then in seventy three the movie was made. And there's

472
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: I think I referenced not too long ago a great

473
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: Mark Maron interview with William Friedkin where he talks about

474
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: the audition process for Linda Blair. So you should go

475
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: listen to that because it was pretty insightful. But The

476
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: Exorcist really kind of changed the game in that it

477
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: was a it spawned a bit of a subgenre of.

478
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: Demonic movies. Sure I were like religious based, yeah.

479
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: Even though I guess Rosemary's Baby was before that. But

480
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: the Exorcist was such a mega hit and it was

481
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 2: nominated for Best Picture, the first horror movie to be

482
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: nominated for that.

483
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: And so it was just like it was a big deal.

484
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: It was. It sold six million tickets in about two months. Yeah,

485
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: it's amazing. This is a horror movie, right, and it

486
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere. Apparently the effect they had on

487
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: audiences was extremely pronounced. There was a woman in Boston

488
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: who had to be carried from the theater and she

489
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: goes it cost me four dollars, but I only lasted

490
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. So we're like, that's the stories of that

491
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: got around and people wanted to see you know, this

492
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: movie can't be that scary, and they went and they

493
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: were like, oh my god, that movie is that scary. Yeah,

494
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: and it holds up too.

495
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: I mean, special effects are they'd never quite hold up.

496
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: But it's still a very creepy movie. Very famously, Linda

497
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 2: Blair played the little girl who was possessed by a demon,

498
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: and the the heavy hitters were called in to exercise

499
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: this demon, including a Max van Seadao who was only

500
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: forty four when he played this guy in his easily

501
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: in his seventies.

502
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, is he Benjamin Button? Well, no, they made him up. Wow,

503
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: they did a great job.

504
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I don't see why they felt the need

505
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: to do that, I know they God, who else did

506
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: they almost cast? Oh? Brando? They almost cast Brando, but.

507
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: That would have been a colossal mistake.

508
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: Well Friedkin said, you know, as soon as you do that,

509
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: it's a Marlon Brando movie.

510
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's a picture, a Brando picture. Sure,

511
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: that's what they said.

512
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: And he'd wanted to be a Brando picture. He wanted

513
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: to be the Exorcist, so you said.

514
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: It was based on a book from two years before

515
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: by William Peter Bladdie. He apparently was known as a

516
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: comedy writer and he wanted to do something different.

517
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: He said, Hey, wouldn't it be funny if the little

518
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: girls had spun around? And she keeped green.

519
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: Bile, Wait, wall you hear what I ever do with

520
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: a crucifix? So he actually wrote the book because he

521
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: wanted to scare America back to church. That was his

522
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: aim with the book. He believed that there was real

523
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: evil going on in the world and that part of

524
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: it was because of a loss of faith or a

525
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: loss of religion, I guess, And that's what he wanted

526
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: to do with it. And when the movie came out,

527
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: there was a huge pushback from religious authority. He's like

528
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: Billy Graham said, he believed the movie itself was possessed

529
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: by a demon. I'm not sure how that would happen,

530
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: but that was like a huge thing at the time,

531
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of a lot of other religious establishment

532
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: types were like, don't go see that movie. It's evil.

533
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: But there were some who who were part of part

534
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: of religion, major organized religion, who kind of saw through

535
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: it and said, no, no, this is it's good that

536
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: we're talking about this. That there were telling people, you know,

537
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: or people are seeing that there there's such a thing

538
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: as like good versus evil literally combating on earth, you know,

539
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: when people are talking about this and thinking about it.

540
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: And so in that sense, the Exorcist like really kind

541
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: of went to bat for organized religion. Oh interesting. I

542
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: saw another criticism of it though, that that said one

543
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: of the themes of the movie that the book hadn't really intended,

544
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: but the movie picked up on and expounded on, was

545
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: intergenerational conflict. That it was Reagan the child represented the

546
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: younger generation who was at war with the establishment, and

547
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: that it even goes so far as to where her mother,

548
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: the actress the movie that she's working on is about

549
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: campus takeover by young radicals. Uh So that's kind of

550
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: a theme that was apparently part of the subtext, but

551
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: was a major part of it in the movie at least. Interesting. Yeah,

552
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: I thought so too, because apparently, I mean, you think

553
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: of intergenerational conflict. Now. Apparently in the late sixties and

554
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: early seventies it was sharper than it probably ever has

555
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: been before or since.

556
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only other thing I got is that the

557
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: green stuff that she projectiles was Anderson's pea soup and

558
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: a little bit of oatmeal, Dexter.

559
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Anderson's pece soup. We'll bet you can't get that anymore, Chuck.

560
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: Let's do Jaws and then we'll take a break. I

561
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: love talking about Jaws. Yeah, I mean, Jaws is on.

562
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: You know, I did my top favorite movies list at

563
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: one point on our website, and I listed Jaws is

564
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: my favorite.

565
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: Movie favorite of all time.

566
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that list changes, but it's Jaws is

567
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: always in my top five. I can watch it anytime

568
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: it's on. It is one of the I've often said

569
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 2: it's a perfect movie, and what I mean by that

570
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: is there's just not a misstep. Like the casting was perfect,

571
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: the acting was great, the script was great. It played

572
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: out just perfectly throughout the film. He, like Spielberg, was

573
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: just a master storyteller with that movie.

574
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: You were talking about how young George Romero was in

575
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: Night of the Living Dead. Spielberg was twenty six when

576
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: he made Jaws. He was thirteen years old. He and

577
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: he was apparently scared to death when he finished filming.

578
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: The schedule had been for fifty five days. It went

579
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: to one hundred and fifty. Yeah. He had I think

580
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: been allotted four million dollars. He ended up spending twelve

581
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: million on it.

582
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, largely because a shooting on water is notoriously difficult,

583
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: and b the shark, mechanical shark they use was legendarily wonky,

584
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: and how it are not wonky but wanky wonky.

585
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: It didn't work. It rarely worked.

586
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: So they spent a lot of time and burnt a

587
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: lot of hours trying to get this shark to do

588
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: its thing, and so much so that it didn't even

589
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: make that many appearances in the movie. I think they

590
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: even kind of scaled it back, and that ended up

591
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: being better for the movie because you didn't get.

592
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: As much shark. I looked up the urban legend about

593
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: the shark being named after Spielberg's lawyer, Bruce, and apparently

594
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: it's true. Really, Yeah, Bruce Reiner was the name of

595
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: Spielberg's lawyer, and that was the nickname for the mechanical

596
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: shark on the set was Bruce, that's pretty funny. So

597
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: with Jaws, right, we're talking about horror movies that changed

598
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: the genre. Jaws not only changed the horror genre, it

599
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: changed movie making to this day. Yeah, and in multiple ways,

600
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 1: multiple massive ways. It changed the entire film industry almost

601
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: single handedly. Yeah, it was at the time.

602
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: There was no such thing. You take it for granted now,

603
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: but there was no such thing as a quote unquote

604
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: summer release.

605
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: No, a lot of theaters close down because ac wasn't

606
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: in every theater and people didn't want to sit around

607
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: in a hot movie theater for two hours.

608
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, a summer release or a tent pole film or

609
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: a blockbuster feature like Jaws was the first one of

610
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: all those.

611
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: At the time, when Jaws came out, they used to

612
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: release a movie on maybe one two screens in say

613
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: New York or LA for a week, and then it'd

614
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: make its way to you know, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago for

615
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: a few weeks, and then eventually it'd make it to

616
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: your small town six eight weeks later. Yeah, that was

617
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: how movies were released, not Jaws. Jaws was released on

618
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty five screens across the country, which

619
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: is huge, which is part of the part of the

620
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: summer blockbuster release playbook now.

621
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was also the first movie to spend

622
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: lots and lots of money on marketing, and so I

623
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: think the studios were like, wait a minute, you spend

624
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: some dough on marketing, you release this thing wide. You

625
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: can make a ton of money in the first month

626
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: that a movie's out, and you're kind of set like

627
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: after that, it's anything else is gravy. Yeah, and that's

628
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: after the first week or two probably, Yeah, it was.

629
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole the whole point of blockbuster now is

630
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: to get that opening weekend, to make all your money

631
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: back in the opening weekend, and then everything else is

632
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: gravy on top of it. Right, Jaws was it didn't

633
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: make its I don't know. Maybe it did make its

634
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: money back in the first weekend because it hit one

635
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in like seventy eight days or something

636
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: incredible like that, because it was the first movie to

637
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: hit one hundred million dollars and it did it in

638
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: just a couple months. Even.

639
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it eventually went on to make to about two

640
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty million dollars domestically, which is I mean,

641
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 2: that's a great take. Now, yeah, you know, much less

642
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen seventies.

643
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: Sure, for a twelve million dollars spend, for sure.

644
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: My only beef here is that I would not consider

645
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 2: Jaws a horror movie.

646
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

647
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: I think it's an adventure film. Yeah, I guess you're right,

648
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: with a scary antagonist. Yeah, but it's amazing how much

649
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: I quote that movie in my day to day life.

650
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Just just just Shark. That's a great that's a classic.

651
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: All Right, let's take a break.

652
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to meditate on that line, and we'll talk

653
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: about a few other scary movies, including one that was

654
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: originally titled scary movie.

655
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: Okay, moving on to Halloween. Halloween Chuck nineteen seventy eight.

656
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: I believe Halloween.

657
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: Yes, John Carpenter, the youngish John Carpenter, who originally titled

658
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: this movie The Babysitter Murders.

659
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: No, A little on the nose.

660
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, a pretty terrifying title, I guess. Young Jamie Lee

661
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 2: Curtis her very first movie.

662
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: Was it really? Yeah? Well, she went on to become

663
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: known as the scream Queen for all the horror movies

664
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: she was in.

665
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: Totally and this was shot in twenty days in South

666
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: Pasadena as the Midwest, and it's credited as being birthing

667
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: the slasher genre.

668
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did, so there were slasher films before it.

669
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: The Town That Dreaded Sundown. It was like based on

670
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: a true crime story actually in Texas, one called Black

671
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: Christmas The Grabster Sites from nineteen seventy four. I haven't

672
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: heard of that one, but the idea of a faceless

673
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: almost a like non entity entity coming at you and

674
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: relentlessly stalking you, being impervious to harm, as the rabster

675
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: puts it, and just coming at you again and again

676
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: trying to kill you. That was that was all established

677
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: by Halloween and it was done like too great effect

678
00:38:59,200 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: as well.

679
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it holds up. It's still scary. Michael Myers,

680
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: of course, was the Killer. The music that John Carpenter scored.

681
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: I mean he scores most of his movies himself, but yeah,

682
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: very iconic, basic thing. I think he only took a

683
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: couple of days to come up with it. But like

684
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: the Michael Myers character and the mask are so iconic.

685
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 2: The music is so iconic. You know about the mask,

686
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 2: right Chatner? Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

687
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: I went and check that one out too to verify

688
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: that it was true, and it definitely is true that

689
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: Michael Meyer's mask is actually a Captain Kirk star Trek

690
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: mask painted white. Yep. That is history. Yep.

691
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: The in the script when it came to the mask,

692
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 2: it just said pale, neutral features of a man.

693
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, which makes the whole thing even creepier because he's

694
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: an implacid or is that the right word. I don't know.

695
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: He's just it's just almost like a just a an

696
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: emotionless killer. Oh yeah. It made the fact that he

697
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: was merciless, ruthless, pitiless, and arbitrarily killing people almost all

698
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: the more pronounced because his expression never changes.

699
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: Well, to me, the two things that were creepiest about

700
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: Halloween was the expression never changed because of that mask,

701
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 2: and he did not run, like oh yeah, he would

702
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: just walk, and you still got the feeling like you

703
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: can't outrun this guy even though he's walking.

704
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: That was another creepy part about it. It follows with the

705
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: walking aspect of it, Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah yeah,

706
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: in the same way that like twenty eight Days Later

707
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: was freaky in that it took zombies and made him run. Yeah.

708
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: Or I remember when I saw Friday the thirteenth, I'm sorry,

709
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: Nightmare on Elm Street for the first time, and Freddy

710
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: Krueger was running around. I was like, that's not what

711
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: scary dudes do.

712
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: Yes, scary dudes don't try now.

713
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: They walk very creepily towards you and still somehow gain

714
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: speed on you even though you're running for speed.

715
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: Well, Freddy scared me to death the first time I

716
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: saw that movie. Yeah. No, first one was a pretty

717
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: good one. But Halloween established this, Like you said, it

718
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: established the slasher genre, and everything about slasher films still

719
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: today all rooted in Halloween John Carpenter's tropes.

720
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, like you said, there were a couple

721
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: of other slasher films before, but none of them grossed

722
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: close to fifty million bucks.

723
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: Wow, is that how much Halloween made?

724
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty seven million domestic about a three hundred thousand

725
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 2: dollars budget, so it you know, it's sort of like

726
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: with The Exorcists, like there were other movies that sort

727
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: of did this thing before, But when you have a

728
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: huge hit that does it is when it sort of

729
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: redefines the genre because if it's money, yeah, and that's

730
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: all there is.

731
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: Everyone starts paying attention after that. All Right, what's next?

732
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: What's next, my friend, is a movie that came out

733
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: when I don't know, were you still in college. No,

734
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: you must have just been out then I was out

735
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: a few years. Okay, well, card, let's around our college era.

736
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: This movie came out, because up to this point, everything's

737
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: come out either when we were little or before we

738
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: were born. This one was right in our wheelhouse. It

739
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: was the Blair Witch Project, which came out in nineteen

740
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: ninety eight. Yeah.

741
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: And one of the big things that Blair Witch Project

742
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 2: did well two things, really, It established the found footage

743
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: genre or subgenre that is so overplayed now in the

744
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: viral marketing campaign. And that's how I came upon it.

745
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 2: I remember very specifically being in the apartment of Scott

746
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: at Pallito, who you know, sure he shot our TV show,

747
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: one of my oldest friends, and I was sitting in

748
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 2: his apartment on Claremont Avenue Indicator and I happened upon this.

749
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: And this was pre Facebook. I don't know how I

750
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: found it, you know, before things were being shared around, right,

751
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: And it happened upon this website, the very first Blair

752
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: Witch Project website, and I was like, dude, come over

753
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: here and check this out. This is the scariest thing

754
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Yeah, And I remember the website set

755
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: it up as if it was real, and that this

756
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: found footage thing. It's so overdone now it's hard to

757
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: go back in time and remember when it was fresh.

758
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: But I remember looking at it and being like, did

759
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,399
Speaker 2: this happen? Did they really find this footage of this

760
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: murder in the woods? Like well, I got to see this.

761
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: That was the rumor that this was actually real, man.

762
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: And this is like you said, I mean, this is

763
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 1: before the found footage genre, So people were being exposed

764
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 1: to this concept for the first time, and we're kind

765
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: of falling for it. I mean, first all, you're either

766
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: in college or you're just recently out of college, so

767
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 1: you're maybe slightly more gullible than you are ten years old.

768
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 1: You're ready to believe it. You want to believe, right,

769
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, the idea that this was actual found footage

770
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 1: it just made it all the more enjoyable and people

771
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: were buying into it. Then. I think the other part

772
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: of it, too, was that the filmmakers, partly because they

773
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: didn't have the budget for actual effects, left a lot

774
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: of the scariest parts to your imagination.

775
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, nor did they have the talent to make a

776
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: good narrative film?

777
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean they worked on a sixty four

778
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: page script, which I was surprised that it was that

779
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: that big. But they shot it for eight days, and

780
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: originally they were going to make it like a documentary

781
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: about the found footage, right, and then one of them

782
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: had a flash of perspective. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait,

783
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: let's just release it like it's found footage. And that

784
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: was that. The rest was history.

785
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm poking fun. That was not very nice

786
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: at all. Eduardo Sanchez and Daniel Myrick or Mirrick, the

787
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 2: co directors, they they should be credited with a truly

788
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: ingenious campaign and invention that.

789
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: Well, they weren't the first to come up with found footage, right,

790
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: there were some films before. I've never known how to

791
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: pronounce it, Mondo Kanye or Mondo Kine. I think, Connie,

792
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: it's from nineteen sixty two and it was supposedly a

793
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: documentary about like some like weird tribal rituals. I think

794
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: there's head shrinking maybe involved, and it purported to be

795
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: like real footage. Yeah, same with Cannibal Holocaust. Man, if

796
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: you've never seen Cannibell Holocaust. Go out and watch it

797
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: right now. Very disturbing, and it's so disturbing that the

798
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: director of the movie was charged with murder because they

799
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: believed that the actual murders depicted they were so realistic.

800
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: They thought that it was a snuff film basically, but

801
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a documentary as well, so

802
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: there was an idea of like found footage or documentary

803
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: style horror movies that had come before, but nothing like

804
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: The Blair Witch where it was just straight up these people.

805
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: We found their old camera and this is what was

806
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: on it.

807
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: Well, and they were smart enough to kind of dig

808
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: up an old thing that never went huge.

809
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: You know.

810
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: They're like, hey, man, like these other movies, they never

811
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: really hit it big, and they it was a timing thing.

812
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: They they I mean, hats off for them to them, Yeah,

813
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: good for them, and to them.

814
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: Nice going, all right, chuck scream.

815
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, scream. I teased that it was originally titled scary movie.

816
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm glad it wasn't because scary movie is awesome. Well,

817
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: it's scary movie ever would have been called, maybe it

818
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: would have never been made, or maybe they would have

819
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: called that Scream. Oh yeah, I guess so.

820
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: So Scream was a very big deal when it came out.

821
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: The writer Kevin Williamson, and this is still the highest

822
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: growing slasher film of all time, basically Scream one.

823
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: It was huge. I got Nev Campbell's haircut as a

824
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: result of it. Like it was a big, big pop

825
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: culture watermark. It was.

826
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 2: And one of the big things about it, aside from

827
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: the boatloads of money that it made, was it spawned

828
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: a subgenre called meta horror, which is even though it

829
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: had been done by no less than its own director

830
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: Wes Craven with Wes Craven's New Nightmare two years before Scream,

831
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't nearly as popular. But meta horror is this

832
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 2: idea and if you've ever seen Scream, you know they're

833
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: constantly just referencing horror movies, like this is where you know,

834
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: you don't go out and make out in the car

835
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,959
Speaker 2: because that's where you get killed. And then they would

836
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: do that and get killed, right, although I don't think

837
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: that specifically happened.

838
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: Like don't go back into the house.

839
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like all the tropes of horror movies are addressed

840
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: in the movie.

841
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: And they're talking about them as the horror movie tropes. Yes, yeah, exactly,

842
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: meta horror. Yeah, and there are plenty of other things

843
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: that came along meta horror examples like have you seen

844
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: Tucker and Dale Versus Evil? No, it's good. Oh check

845
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: it out man, all right, that's a good movie. Zombie Land. Yeah,

846
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: to see that where he's rattling off all of the

847
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: things that you need to notice survive a zombie apocalypse

848
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: that he learned from zombie movies. Right. And then Cabin

849
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: in the Woods. Did you see that? One? Great movie?

850
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: It was a great movie though, it was really good.

851
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean from beginning to end, it was a great movie.

852
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: Did you like Scream? Yeah? I love Scream. I liked

853
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: all the Screams. I only saw the first two.

854
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: The second one I think might have been even better

855
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: than the first.

856
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: To me.

857
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: And that the second one was shot Emily worked on

858
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 2: that it was shot here at Agna Scott College partial right, Yeah,

859
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: you have to.

860
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: Go back and watch it. Knowing that now I'll be like, oh,

861
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: I've driven past that place, so I got a few tidbits.

862
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: Like I said. Initial title was Scary Movie Number two.

863
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: The Weinstein brothers initially offered it to George ra Merrow

864
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: and Sam Raimi, what else do I have here? Drew

865
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: Barrymore was originally supposed to play Sydney, the lead character,

866
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: and then she said, no, how about if I just

867
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: played that girl at the beginning, which kind of was

868
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: a big thing because you see Drew Barrymore And it

869
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: was a big shock when she died in the first scene.

870
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: Right, you know you can't kill off your heroin right away.

871
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like I remember, I remember that first

872
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: scene really really scaring me when I saw it the

873
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: first time in the theater.

874
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's a scary, gruesome, gory heart Yeah,

875
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: very well played.

876
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 2: And then before he went to Neph Campbell, he went

877
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: out to Alicia Witz, Britney Murphy and Reese Witherspoon, and

878
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: then Neph Campbell.

879
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: I was your christ choice, right.

880
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: And then the mask, the iconic screen mask apparently wasn't

881
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: off the shelf mask.

882
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: Wow that made that company's money. Yeah, No, Weinstein didn't

883
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: like it. They were like, I hate that mask.

884
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: Everything else is fine, huh, but Wes craven sord, No,

885
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 2: it's got to be that mask.

886
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: Don't be stupid, Bob.

887
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna finish up with our own edition.

888
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: Here finally nineteen sixty. Yes, It'sycho. I can't believe this

889
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: wasn't in the list. I think ed I kept this

890
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: off the list to toy with somebody he doesn't like specifically,

891
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: that's the only explanation.

892
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Psycho changed everything.

893
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really did. I mean it was the you

894
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: could say that it was one of the first slasher flicks.

895
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: It was an early psychological thriller. Yeah. It was based

896
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: on the real life story of ed Gean. Yeah, I

897
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: mean it doesn't exactly mirror ed Dean's life, but the

898
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: idea of being obsessed with your mother so much that

899
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: you will commit murder was definitely rooted in Agen's story. Yeah.

900
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with ed Geen, he not only

901
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: he was a I don't even know if he was

902
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: a serial killer. I think he only I think he

903
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: murdered one, maybe two people. But more than anything, he

904
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: was a grave robber. But he likes to dress up

905
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: in people's skin, women's skin and pretend he was his

906
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: own mother. Which, man, that's a lot of years on

907
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: the couchworking that one out. Yeah, or you can just

908
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: die at the hands of cops. One of the two.

909
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: And he also inspired leather Face from Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

910
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Buffalo Bill of course. Oh yeah, yeah, Signs

911
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 2: of the Lamps.

912
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. One guy inspired all those, all those guys.

913
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 2: So I found this article Psycho colon the Horror Movie

914
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: that Changed the Genre by Owen Glieberman or is it

915
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: Gliberman Glieber Gleiber. I think he wrote for a legendary critic,

916
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: wrote for aw for years and years, and now writes

917
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: for a variety. Oh he does, yeah, but he he

918
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: put it best. He said, well, you know, the iconic

919
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 2: shower scene, first of all, is hugely important because it

920
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: was Hitchcock really kind of ripped up the script, not literally,

921
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: but the horror movie script when he kills off Janet

922
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: Lee halfway.

923
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: Through the movie.

924
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: It was you just didn't do that at the time,

925
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: and we came out of nowhere.

926
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: And we've seen that come up later on, like at

927
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: the end of Night of Living Dead or Drew Barrymore

928
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: in Scream. Hitchcock was the first one to do that.

929
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And Glieberman puts it this way. He said he

930
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: was also slicing through years, decades, centuries, even of audience

931
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: expectation that the hero or heroine of a fictional work

932
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: would be shielded and protected or would at least die,

933
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 2: usually the end in a way that made some sort

934
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: of moral dramatic sense. And Psycho the Murder made no

935
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: sense at all, right, And he really kind of hits

936
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: it on the head there. It was like, if you've

937
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: never seen Psycho or heard of it, the movie's just

938
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: going along about this woman who steals some money from

939
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 2: her work and she's kind of on the lamb and

940
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 2: checks into this hotel, and you don't even know it's

941
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: a horror movie. You're thinking it's a movie about a

942
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: lady who steals money and is trying to get away

943
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 2: from getting caught, right, And then just out of nowhere,

944
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: she's hacked up in a shower and at the time,

945
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: audiences and still if you haven't seen it shocking, The

946
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: audiences were just like they didn't know what they'd seen.

947
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: Right exactly, So you're not not only is is the

948
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: hero no longer safe? That means maybe you're not either. Yeah,

949
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: so it has it had a really huge unsettling effect.

950
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: And then Owen Glieberman points out that Hitchcock was so

951
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: smart that he even he even made a nod to

952
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: the the type of pat expected horror that the audience

953
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: was used to. In the house that he used for Psycho,

954
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: the Bates House. Yeah, there was this huge, rambling Victorian

955
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: mansion on a hill and there's lots of taxidermy and

956
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: it was like over over decorated and just creepy. But

957
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: up to that point, like that was horror. That was

958
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: what a horror movie looked like and felt like. And

959
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: this was this was kind of Hitchcock's homage to that.

960
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: But at the same time he was also putting the

961
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: heel of his shoe on it as well.

962
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that house was I mean almost a character

963
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: in itself. Like, if you've ever seen the recreation of

964
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: it in Los Angeles, I think it's a universal.

965
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: Did you see it? Oh yeah, I never did. The

966
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: closest I came was I think when different Strokes went there.

967
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: That's the closest you got to it. Yeah.

968
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Man, if you've ever seen this thing in person

969
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: likes it sends a chill up your back just seeing

970
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 2: the thing in like a sunny Los Angeles day. Still,

971
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: that's awesome. It's such an iconic house. It's like, oh man,

972
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 2: there it is. That's where Norman Bates lives. He's the

973
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: most disturbed human of all time. Right, So in the movie,

974
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: of course, it was the mother character who is sort

975
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 2: of referenced throughout the movie. And it is not until

976
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 2: the end that you realize that there is no mother.

977
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 2: Mother's dead, right, there's just Norman Bates and all his

978
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 2: rage and hang ups.

979
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all the monster movies about giant ants and

980
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: or the creature from a Black Lagoon, monsters, things that

981
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: were and other that a normal person had to do

982
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: battle with that was gone. Now the monster had been

983
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: on screen the whole time, and you had noticed it.

984
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 1: And now what do you think about your neighbor who

985
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: has seemed a little weird from time to time before?

986
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,959
Speaker 1: Could he be a murderer who thinks he's his mother

987
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: who knows? Yeah, this is what Hitchcock did to everybody

988
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty. And you almost get like, I think,

989
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: Owen Gliberman points it out. Yeah, he does. At the beginning,

990
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: he basically says, like, we probably didn't see Psycho. If

991
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: you're reading this, you're probably too young to have seen

992
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 1: Psycho in nineteen sixty and we should all feel sad

993
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: that we didn't because it's so changed everything. Okay, we

994
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: can't do anything but take it for granted now, and

995
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: everything that's come since then has been trying to regain

996
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: that shock and horror that it instilled in audiences, and

997
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: thus far, no one's actually been able to do it.

998
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other thing, I remember when I saw

999
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: it when I was younger. I think I saw this

1000
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: when I was like fourteenish, and I think it had

1001
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: this impact on just about everyone. I don't think I

1002
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: took a shower for a month. I was straight up

1003
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: bathtub curtain, open, doors, open, windows open.

1004
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: Making your mom watch, she's keeping watch.

1005
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: No, that would have been full circle back to sud Oh.

1006
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, you didn't even want to

1007
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: have anything to do with your mom. No.

1008
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: Man Like it changed the shower curtain industry for a

1009
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 2: while after that.

1010
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, bet very good movie.

1011
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: And there were a couple of Hitchcock movies in the

1012
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: last few years, two different ones, one with Anthony Hopkins

1013
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: and one with Toby Jones that were both really good,

1014
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: and one was about the years that he was making Psycho.

1015
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:48,959
Speaker 2: The other was about the years when he was making

1016
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 2: The Birds, and they were both really, really good. Movies

1017
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 2: and you should check those out too.

1018
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: You should repeat that.

1019
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: We just got a rare interjection from Knowl, So go

1020
00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: ahead and say it again, Josh, in case it didn't

1021
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: come through.

1022
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: So Nol just said that the director of The Black

1023
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: Coach's Daughter is Anthony Perkins, who played Norman Bates in

1024
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: Psycho's Son. Wow. He also did another movie now that

1025
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: Noel says that, thanks Nol. It's called The Pretty Little

1026
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: Thing that Lives in the House, which is another horror movie,

1027
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: a ghost story. I think that was his first one,

1028
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: and I think that might be on Netflix. It's great.

1029
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: It's a really great movie too.

1030
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: Man, this has got me fired up to see some

1031
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: horror movies.

1032
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: It's a renaissance of horror. Yeah.

1033
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: It's tough though, because Emily doesn't really dig it, so

1034
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: I have to just find alone time to do that.

1035
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: Good to watch it in the bathroom. All right, Well,

1036
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about horror movies, go

1037
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: watch horror movies. Go forth and let him know what

1038
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: we missed. For God's sake. Yeah, if you want to

1039
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: check out Grabster's list, type in horror movies on the

1040
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: search bar House of Works dot com and it'll bring

1041
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: up this fine, fine list that you'll disagree with. And

1042
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: since I said disagree, time for listener mail.

1043
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 2: This from Eric, and I'm going to call it what

1044
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: he called it, Schoolhouse Rock nostalgia theory. All right, I

1045
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 2: think he's pretty right on this just came in. Actually,

1046
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: there's a hot take, hey, guys, in school House Rock.

1047
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 2: So Josh made the statement that gen xers are most

1048
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: nostalgic generation and attribute it to the success of Schoolhouse Rock.

1049
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to offer my own theory. I propose that

1050
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: gen X is nostalgic mostly for pop culture because of

1051
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: the prolifer that word of child targeted advertisements and marketing

1052
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: in the seventies and eighties. Hum certainly something we've talked about.

1053
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: This theories got legs.

1054
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 2: While our little impressionable brains were developing, were being taught

1055
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: by those who are steering pop culture to long for

1056
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: and find fulfillment in the toys and other products our

1057
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: cartoons were pushing on us. Now, as adults, those messages

1058
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 2: are still deep in our psyche. We can't shake the

1059
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 2: idea that we still really need those Star Wars action

1060
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: figures to be happy, not because the toys and the

1061
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 2: shows were so great because we had been tricked into

1062
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: believing we need them. I have nothing scientific about this up,

1063
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: just a hunch yet. What you mean there hasn't been

1064
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 2: a study from MIT right on Star Wars toys.

1065
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm kind of surprised by that as well. I thought

1066
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: you were being facetious at first one. It's just took

1067
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:14,919
Speaker 1: a turn.

1068
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know which way is up at this point. Yeah,

1069
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: nothing scientific to back this up, but I'd love to

1070
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 2: hear what you all think. See if anyone out there

1071
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 2: is any respectable and informed input you Eric, That is

1072
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: from Eric Lewin and Eric. I think that's super valid.

1073
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: Yeah I do too, Eric. I think you've really hit

1074
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: upon something here. And that's all I have to say

1075
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: about it. If you have a great theory, fan theory,

1076
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: real life theory, whatever, we want to hear them there,

1077
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: especially if it's interesting. You can tweet to us at

1078
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: SYSK podcast or josh am Clark. You can post it

1079
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