1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: I'm joying my Ram Emmanuel. He's the US Ambassador to Japan. 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: We last spoke at the G seven in Hiroshima. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 2: You were also. It was so memorable. It was memorable. 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: You got a lot done on that trip when it 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: comes to countering China, and that's where I want to start, 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: because this was warming of ties. The relationship almost couldn't 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: get any worse than where it was. But you've been 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: quite critical of China. In one of your tweets, you 9 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: talked about the rumors of the disappearance of top officials, 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: and you said, Who's going to win this unemployment race, 11 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: China's youth or She's cabinet. Given that criticism, and the 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: White House was trying to pave a way for this visit, 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: did they tell you to tone down some of your 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: social media? 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: I look like I'm towed down. 16 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I've been very clear about Fukushima, that China 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 3: continues to fish in Japan's water even though they're banning 18 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 3: that fish in clear violation of trade agreements. I mean, 19 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: to me, the big point here, and I think that 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 3: the most important point is nobody's under any illusion. I 21 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: thought it was very interesting in the meeting is After 22 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: the meeting, President G decided to have a meet at 23 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 3: dinner with a bunch of American. 24 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: CEOs who gave him a standing ovation. 25 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: I was with President by last night where he had 26 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: a reception and there were world leaders from the entire region, 27 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 3: number of country heads of states. Prime Minister Kashida was there, 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 3: as was President Marcos the Philippines was there, And I 29 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: think that is a telling sign the split screen. President 30 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 3: G is desperate for American investment because he has made 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: a series of economic decisions and political decisions arresting people 32 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: where capital is fleeing. 33 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 2: The coin of the realm. 34 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: For the United States, we have allies, we have friends, 35 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: and they want to be aligned with us. The fact 36 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 3: that there were foreign leaders with the President here at 37 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 3: the APEC conference, and American business CEOs who literally have 38 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: their R and D, their intellectual property stolen from them, 39 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: has decided to give it President G a standing ovation, 40 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: And I think that is a telling sign, that split screen. 41 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 3: Because I tell you who's got strength and who's got abilities. 42 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Well, this is another criticism you pointed to China on 43 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: your social media post. You're very prolific. On Twitter, you 44 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: said I. 45 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: Can only type so many words you said. 46 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: You said, lying and cheating is the modus operendi when 47 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: it comes to doing business in China. Was it wrong 48 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: for these executives to show up last night and some 49 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: of them paying? As Mark Mike Gallagher of the Republican 50 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: Chair of the China Selected me, he says, forty thousand 51 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: dollars to sit in a Sijing Ping's team. 52 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 3: Mad you just say, well, then may be a telling 53 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: sign of how desperate China is for investments. Let me 54 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: say this on that point one, I cannot tell you, 55 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: as a chief of staff, how many times the CEO 56 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: came in to my office and said, I have to 57 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 3: give away all my research and development. There's intellectual property theft, 58 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: there's you know, there's basically IP theft going on, and 59 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: there's spying going on. And then you say, okay, let's 60 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: file a wto World Trade Organization complaint. 61 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: They I don't want to do that. 62 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 3: So to me, we as taxpayers fund that research and development. 63 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 3: We have a say in that research and development. The 64 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 3: fact that you're giving away America's future and you just 65 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: have to give it away, that's not in our interests. 66 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: It wasn't wrong for them to show but you should 67 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: have no rose colored glasses. 68 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: Number two over the last thirty years. 69 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: Definitely, in the last twenty years, too much of America's 70 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 3: security or relationship with China was dominated by commercial interests 71 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 3: and not by our national security. 72 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: Has to be brought into balance. And number two West 73 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: learned its lesson from Russia. 74 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: Well, I think under present Bien absolutely clear eyed about it. 75 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 3: And number three let me take one other point. It's 76 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 3: ambassadored for the United States Japan. There are three major 77 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: companies in the world that produce machines that are essential 78 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: for semiconductors, Canon, Tokyo Electron ASML in Holland. Three months 79 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: ago it was identified that it was a spy stealing 80 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: trade secrets and economic secrets, patent secrets from ASML, not Canon, 81 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: not Tokyo Electron, not another country except for China. Now, 82 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: we can't allow an economic system based on trust and 83 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: a rule of law to operate where one country is 84 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: stealing intellectual property constantly. 85 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: That it has happening across the United across Should this 86 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: administration be doing more? No, No, they are doing more. 87 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: You and I aren't having this in the past, all 88 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: those problems. 89 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 3: This is a mistake by part of a mistake. Those 90 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 3: problems got swept under the rug. You're gonna have the 91 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 3: dialogue the President established yesterday. We're gonna be honest with 92 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: each other. We're gonna tell each other where they're they're lines. 93 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: In the past, those type of things by CEOs in 94 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: America got swept under the rug because of the lure 95 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 3: of a size of the market of China. That will 96 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: not happen anymore. The enforcement of the rules of law 97 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: will happen, and it's gonna be clear. There will be 98 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: commercial trade, but it will not be one where you 99 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: get to steal and we all get to or get 100 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: to subsidize and destroy a market of the United States 101 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: or a market of a Japan or a market of 102 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 3: the EU, and we actually turn the other cheat. You're 103 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: gonna if you're gonna be part of the international system, 104 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: you're gonna abide by the international system. And the President 105 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 3: has been clear, which is why again I go back 106 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 3: to this. We have eyellies and friends because everybody knows 107 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 3: between rules or raw exercise power. Rules have a seductive lore, 108 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: because that is fear, and people do not want to 109 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 3: live in a system where intellectual property, the subsidizing of 110 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: industries get to destroy other countries' economic independence and sovereignty. 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: What do you make of the president though, ending his 112 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: press conference on the way out, gets this shouted question, 113 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: He says, SHEI shimping is a dictator. 114 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: Well, he's stuck by what his view is. 115 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: I think the evidence is pretty clear based on what's 116 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 3: going on in China, and I think that that doesn't 117 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: mean you don't have a conversation as he did. And 118 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: I do think one other thing that I think is 119 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 3: really really important. When you look at Russia's war in 120 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: and on Ukraine, you look at Hamas's terrorism and the 121 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: conflict in the Middle East, yesterday was a day for 122 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: diplomacy and dialogue. 123 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: Now in all though conflicts. 124 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 3: Are around, it's better to have conversations. And why because 125 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: you and I don't know. Nobody knows where does deterrence 126 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: and and provocation begin. So it's better to have a 127 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: meeting of the minds, better to have a dialogue, better 128 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: to have established. 129 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: With lines of communication. You'll have differences. 130 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: Doesn't mean you were not going to have differences, but 131 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: you know who to talk to each other, You know 132 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: whether you can trust the other person's work. That has 133 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: always been the case. So in the context of right now, 134 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: better that that happened, better that we have a way 135 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 3: of knowing who's on the other line, and better that 136 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: they know each other and have some history so they 137 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: can when conflicts do emerge, they don't go forward President, 138 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 3: they don't inspire a lot of controller right President Biden, THO. 139 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: Was obviously going to be focused the next year, really 140 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: putting foreign policy to the backseat because he has to 141 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: focus on a reelection campaign. And I want to read 142 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: to you a little bit of what Jonathan Martin, Political's 143 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: senior political political correspondent said. He said, the best service 144 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: you can do, mister rama Manuel is come back to 145 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: the United States and chair Biden's re election campaign. He 146 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: actually said that George hw Bush too long to bring 147 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: James Baker back to do this. Is that in your 148 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: future do you cat them potentially leaving Tokyo and coming 149 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: help Biden get reelected. 150 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: I was honored by President Biden to serve as US ambassador. 151 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: I want to see my mission through. 152 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: I'm very happy thanks for Jonathan Martin to make me 153 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 3: to literally have to answer this question that said I'm 154 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: doing I enjoy this job. I've enjoyed all the jobs. 155 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: I serve at the behest of the President of the 156 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: United States. But I am very much committed intellectually, politically, emotionally. 157 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: I really enjoy what the work that we're doing. And 158 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: we're making history as you saw in Camp David when 159 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: the Japan and ire Okay got together, as you saw 160 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: as Japan's now I'm going to go from the nine 161 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: largest defense budget to the third largest. They're getting capabilities 162 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: like tomahawks and counter strike capable police. 163 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: So to me, this is very important. 164 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: Work, and I serve at the behest of the president, 165 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: and I sinue to serve it. 166 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: So you're staying put and no one has told you 167 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: to tone down your tweets. 168 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,679 Speaker 3: You take a look at it time I continue. Nobody 169 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 3: has told me to turn down. It wouldn't be successful 170 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: to tell me to tone down. And the continuation like 171 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: our deal, we're dealing real live now. Classic example of 172 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 3: what I think is a real problem. China has banned 173 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: all the fish from Japan, which they have a lot 174 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 3: of fish. 175 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: That comes from Japan. It goes to China. 176 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: Yet having banned it, China continues to fish in Japan's 177 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: easy and use that same fish, so that hypocrisy does 178 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: not have a place in the international economic says could 179 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 3: need to be responsible, or you can use raw power 180 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: for we're going to enforce rule a law. 181 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: Rama Manuel, thank you so much for your time US 182 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: Ambassador Japan. Rama Manuel. Also, I'm a mayor of Chicago 183 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: and chief of staff to President Obama