WEBVTT - Part Two: King Leopold II: The First Modern Bastard

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<v Speaker 1>Hello friends, I'm Robert Evans, and this is Behind the Bastards,

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<v Speaker 1>the show where we tell you everything you don't know

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<v Speaker 1>about the very worst people in history. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>part two of our episode on Leopold, the second King

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<v Speaker 1>of Belgium. In part one we sort of went over

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<v Speaker 1>how Leopold conned his way into becoming king of the Congo,

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<v Speaker 1>how he tricked the locals into signing over their rights

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<v Speaker 1>to their land, and how he conscripted thousands of them

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<v Speaker 1>into a slave army. Uh So, now we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>get back into all that and the rest of the terrible,

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<v Speaker 1>terrible story of the Belgian Congo. So the first five

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<v Speaker 1>or so years of the Congo project or great for Leopold.

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<v Speaker 1>He's in total control, richer than God, and most of

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<v Speaker 1>Europe still believes he's improving a lot of the Congolese people.

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<v Speaker 1>But in around eighteen ninety, a black journalist named Colonel

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<v Speaker 1>and he's not really a colonel, George Washington Williams saw

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<v Speaker 1>the actual Congo. So he didn't like take the tour

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<v Speaker 1>where you get led through the nice parts of the

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<v Speaker 1>Congo like he He went on foot and he got

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<v Speaker 1>in there and he saw the fucking nightmare that Leopold

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<v Speaker 1>had built. And he wrote an article called an open

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<v Speaker 1>Letter to King Leopold uh and it was the first

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<v Speaker 1>expos of Leopold's blood soak rubber regime. UM William's document

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<v Speaker 1>is remarkable because he's basically the only person up to

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<v Speaker 1>that point who actually sat down with African people and

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<v Speaker 1>asked them what was going on in the Congo. He

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<v Speaker 1>retraced a lot of Stanley's right along the Congo and

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<v Speaker 1>actually talked to some of the people who had signed

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<v Speaker 1>treaties giving their land to Leopold. He learned that a

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<v Speaker 1>great number of chiefs had been tricked into signing things

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<v Speaker 1>with magic tricks. Um. One of the tricks was that,

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<v Speaker 1>like Stanley, had bought a bunch of electric batteries in London,

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<v Speaker 1>and when quote when attached to the arm under the coat,

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<v Speaker 1>communicated with a band of ribbon which passed over the

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<v Speaker 1>palm of the white brother's hand, And when he gave

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<v Speaker 1>the black brother a cordial grasp of the hand, the

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<v Speaker 1>black brother was greatly surprised to find his white brother

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<v Speaker 1>was so strong that he nearly knocked him off his feet.

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<v Speaker 1>When the native inquired about the disparity of strength between

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<v Speaker 1>himself and his white brother. He was told that the

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<v Speaker 1>white man could pull up trees and performing the most

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<v Speaker 1>prodigious feats of strength. So he did a hand buzzer.

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<v Speaker 1>He did a hand buzzer and these like if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what electricity is. Yeah, he's just some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of superman. Let's sign the peace treaty. Yeah yeah, holy ship. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Another trick was to use a magnifying glass to light

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<v Speaker 1>a cigar and then claim that white people had sun powers. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and he'll burn up your villain, basically like I have

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<v Speaker 1>power over the sun and I'll plage on fire. Yeah

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<v Speaker 1>ye god, what a bluff. Yeah yeah yeah. So um

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<v Speaker 1>Williams writes this open letter. Um. He frames it as

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<v Speaker 1>like presuming Leopold doesn't know how terrible things are. He

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<v Speaker 1>writes about the taking of hands and like all of

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<v Speaker 1>the death and the people who are being like starved

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<v Speaker 1>to death as porters, carrying this sort of like modest

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<v Speaker 1>proposal style like of course, you know, but it's an

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<v Speaker 1>indictment or think there's a little bit of a satirical

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<v Speaker 1>bit um And yeah, so Williams publishes this that, but

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately he dies not long after writing the letter, and

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<v Speaker 1>Leopold's able to clamp down on any kind of outrage

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<v Speaker 1>after for a little while. But seven or eight years later,

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<v Speaker 1>another guy who's an amateur journalist named Morrell stumbles upon

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<v Speaker 1>the conspiracy. So he was working as a mid level

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<v Speaker 1>employee for a shipping line that had the contract to

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<v Speaker 1>handle all shipping into the Congo Free State, and so

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<v Speaker 1>every so often Morrell would get sent over to Belgium

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<v Speaker 1>and he would report on what's going into and out

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<v Speaker 1>of the port of Antwerp. And so he realizes that

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<v Speaker 1>the only thing coming out of the Congo into Europe

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<v Speaker 1>is rubber, just shiploads of rubber, impossible quantities of it,

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<v Speaker 1>larger quantities than have been reported in fact. And the

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<v Speaker 1>only thing that's going being sent out to the Congo

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<v Speaker 1>rather than trade are just guns and money, and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more guns than you'd need for any kind of

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<v Speaker 1>philanthropic enterprise. Um Man, Yeah, so exactly, exactly. So he starts,

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<v Speaker 1>he never actually goes to the Congo, but he just

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<v Speaker 1>starts digging, and he starts talking to other people who

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<v Speaker 1>have worked there, and basically, um he starts a newspaper

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<v Speaker 1>that is focused entirely on exposing King Leopold's crimes to

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<v Speaker 1>the world and starts publishing it all throughout Europe. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>He's active all over the world and basically becomes like

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo equivalent of Wiki leaks. So all the guys

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<v Speaker 1>who had worked in Leopold's Congo and felt bad kind

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<v Speaker 1>to him and be like, I saw this, this is

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<v Speaker 1>what happened. Here's some documents I managed to smug. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's also like you're like, yeah, this is what wikilliks

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<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be, Like, this is what it could be.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is also why people like that have legitimacy,

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<v Speaker 1>because and why conspiracies have legitimacy because guess what there

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<v Speaker 1>have been Yeah, big complex conspiracy gigantic conspiracies. So Morrel

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<v Speaker 1>starts this newspaper and he winds up creating was probably

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<v Speaker 1>the first modern human rights organization, the Congo Reform Association,

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<v Speaker 1>which is dedicated to stopping this fi nightmare in the Congo. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>King Leopold responded by inventing the first modern international pr campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>He bought a shipload of journalists of his own, and

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<v Speaker 1>he had them all right puff pieces about how great

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo actually was. He would pay for journalists to

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<v Speaker 1>go on lavish, carefully controlled trips through the Congo. He'd

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<v Speaker 1>give them exclusive interviews when they got back, and he'd

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<v Speaker 1>use his network of agents to help them place their

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<v Speaker 1>articles in newspapers. He got journalists in the New York

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<v Speaker 1>Times to write quotes like I have witnessed more atrocities

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<v Speaker 1>in London streets than I have ever seen in the Congo.

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<v Speaker 1>He would pay for journalists to give public speeches, and

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<v Speaker 1>he would lobby politicians. Leopold's regime was heavily criticized for

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<v Speaker 1>its widespread use of something called the jacote, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a hippo hyde whip which was used to punish laborers.

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<v Speaker 1>Prisoners were often lashed to death by it, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>possible that like literally several million people were killed with

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<v Speaker 1>his whip. Um So Leopold starts catching flak for this,

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<v Speaker 1>and he decides to distract attention from his whipping millions

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<v Speaker 1>of people to death by sending journalists to British colonies

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<v Speaker 1>and having them write lurished expose of abuses in British colonies.

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<v Speaker 1>So his pet reporters would write stories about like how

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<v Speaker 1>the British were using whips on prisoners in South Africa

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<v Speaker 1>or something terrible they've done to people in India. And

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<v Speaker 1>then exactly what about Hillary style? That's exactly it. Like

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<v Speaker 1>I said, he invented the modern art of being shitty,

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<v Speaker 1>like he's he's doing what about is um on a

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<v Speaker 1>massive scale? Did he did he have like an anti

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<v Speaker 1>sdent for like the media, like playing the media or

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<v Speaker 1>did he just make all of I think he invented

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<v Speaker 1>this playbook because other people had. Obviously, every the media's

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<v Speaker 1>existed for a while. Other people have used the media

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<v Speaker 1>one degree or another. But he is the first person

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<v Speaker 1>that I've ever run across who's using it in the

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<v Speaker 1>same way politicians use it today, in the same way

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<v Speaker 1>world leaders use it today, Like this is a very

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<v Speaker 1>modern pr campaign. Um he buys he uses his Congo

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<v Speaker 1>earnings to buy the editors of a bunch of newspapers,

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<v Speaker 1>including the London Times. So he's spending like thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>dollars on just owning editors. UM, so that number one,

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<v Speaker 1>they'll kill stories that are negative to with the Congo

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<v Speaker 1>free state, and so that he can place his positive

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<v Speaker 1>stories once he gets like positive journalists to go, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>have a tour of the Congo and then come and

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<v Speaker 1>write about it. Um. And this is all basically a

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<v Speaker 1>delaying action. Leopold knows eventually the truth is going to

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<v Speaker 1>get out, but he's playing for time. He's got twenty

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<v Speaker 1>years before rubber stops being his problem. He doesn't need

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<v Speaker 1>to do this forever. He just needs to do it

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<v Speaker 1>for a little while. He just wants to as much

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<v Speaker 1>money as he can out of the situation. Um. And

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<v Speaker 1>eventually the sheer weight of facts did change public opinion

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<v Speaker 1>against him, but it took like twenty years. At one point,

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<v Speaker 1>Leopold has said to have seen a cartoon of himself

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<v Speaker 1>in a German newspaper. UM. And in the cartoon, he's

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<v Speaker 1>cutting the hands off of Africans and he reportedly laughed

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<v Speaker 1>at that and said, cut off hands. That's idiotic. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>cut off all the rest of them, but not the hands.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the thing I need in the congo. So he's

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<v Speaker 1>a real piece of work. Um. Now in Leopold had

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<v Speaker 1>started dating a sixteen year old prostitute named Caroline um.

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<v Speaker 1>This is when the congo is at the height of

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<v Speaker 1>its rubber production. UM. So he'd been hooked up to

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<v Speaker 1>her via a pimp named Duro, who was a former

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<v Speaker 1>officer in the French army. We know now that Caroline's

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<v Speaker 1>whole relationship with Leopold was likely a con game, an

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly successful scheme to snatch his inheritance. But at the time, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>King Leopold, blood drenched, absolute ruler of the Congo, was

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<v Speaker 1>smitten with this teenage prostitute. Adam hoss Child writes that

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<v Speaker 1>quote to the extent that someone like Leopold was capable

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<v Speaker 1>of love, this teenage prostitute proved to be the love

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<v Speaker 1>of his life. Um so he's really got it for

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<v Speaker 1>this girl hard. He names her the barrenness of Vaughan. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And the unseemliness of their relationship isn't really acknowledged in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen ten biography. It just calls her one of

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<v Speaker 1>the king's quote favorites. Uh, and it dances around the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that they got together while the Queen was still alive. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>In general, it refers to the King's constant parade of

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<v Speaker 1>mistresses as distractions. Um so yeah. Caroline went on to

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<v Speaker 1>write a bit about their life together, and she gives

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<v Speaker 1>this additional insight into the kind of man Leopold was. Quote.

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<v Speaker 1>Every evening a steam launch took the King to appear

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<v Speaker 1>leading to my villa through a subterranean passage. Speaking about this,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't help remarking on the extraordinary taste of the

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<v Speaker 1>king for everything which had a secret and mysterious character.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyone who could sell him any house, so long as

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<v Speaker 1>it was built on the side of an abandoned quarry,

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<v Speaker 1>or if it had a secret staircase. So basically, he's

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<v Speaker 1>gone from being too cheap to like rinse his like

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<v Speaker 1>a handkerchief. He's like a cartoon villain. Yeah, to like

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<v Speaker 1>a cartoon villed with like layers built into mountain sides

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<v Speaker 1>and hidden boat like grottos and stuff. Yeah. But Caroline

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have his number. Um. So she's both got

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<v Speaker 1>him on madly in love with her. But she also

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<v Speaker 1>like she takes advantage of his hypochondriasm or whatever you

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<v Speaker 1>call that, Like whenever she wanted him to leave her alone,

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<v Speaker 1>she'd pretend to have a cough and then he'd hide

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<v Speaker 1>for days, um because he was scared of So she's

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<v Speaker 1>she's my favorite person in this story. She's lockdown. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So the king is sort of the nineteen hundreds come around,

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<v Speaker 1>is in his late sixties, um, and he takes to

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<v Speaker 1>visiting his teenage mistress in a large tricycle. Um, because again, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's getting more and more Yeah for the genocidal murderer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah righting a big tricycle to hang out with his

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<v Speaker 1>teenage girlfriend. Um, just as bad everyone who every white

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<v Speaker 1>guy riding a tricycle with the big old mustache, you

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<v Speaker 1>are all as bad as king. Yeah. So he's writing

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<v Speaker 1>a big tricycle. He drinks nothing but hot water. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And he starts referring to himself in the third person

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<v Speaker 1>at this point in time. Um, so yeah, he's a weirdo. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>he's not entirely past his old ways at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>There's like a story of the time his mistress bought

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<v Speaker 1>a new hat for him, um, and gives it to him,

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<v Speaker 1>and he like flies into a rage. Uh. And he

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<v Speaker 1>only calms down when she explains him that she got

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<v Speaker 1>it for a bargain and it was like a deal

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<v Speaker 1>that she bought it a quarter of its value. So

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<v Speaker 1>like he's still he's just he's just a weirdo. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a weird guy. He's like a weird old rich letcher

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<v Speaker 1>who's just knows what's going on in the congo but

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't like I mean Look, here's the other part. The

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<v Speaker 1>other way to look at that, I suppose is maybe

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<v Speaker 1>not in such a direct degree, but as Americans, we

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<v Speaker 1>all have similar types of blood on our hands that

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<v Speaker 1>we are electing to not think about. Yeah, but we're

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<v Speaker 1>not we're not driving it in the same way. But

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<v Speaker 1>we absolutely like we all have these phones that we

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<v Speaker 1>know are made by people who hate the work that

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<v Speaker 1>they're doing. And they're like including minerals that are mined

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<v Speaker 1>from like conflict written nations and often use slave labor

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<v Speaker 1>in one. And we know that, like the fabric in

0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.640
<v Speaker 1>our clothes is often their slave labor. At some point

0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:21.079
<v Speaker 1>in the production line. Leopold knows that because he's signing

0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.839
<v Speaker 1>the orders and saying cut off more hands, cut off

0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.040
<v Speaker 1>more hands, and he's just it's just amazing to me

0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.400
<v Speaker 1>that he's able to do that all day every day

0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and then write a tricycle to his teenage girlfriend's house. Um,

0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.800
<v Speaker 1>but that's it's amazing what you're saying. But to me,

0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, it's a little bit just degrees. I mean, look,

0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.080
<v Speaker 1>we're all able to it is degrees. We're all able

0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 1>to compartmentalize the misery that's necessary for our comfort. Um,

0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.520
<v Speaker 1>but this guy, this guy. Uh. One of the things

0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.160
<v Speaker 1>that was interesting to me reading that pro Leopold biography

0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>is that, well, it does talk about nineteen ten, the

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.920
<v Speaker 1>air after he died spoiler. Um. So this biography of him,

0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.600
<v Speaker 1>it's very positive. It talks about how there's atrocities, but

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.400
<v Speaker 1>it always kind of doesn't talk about the detail. It

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 1>just said he definitely committed atrocities. But look at this

0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.079
<v Speaker 1>or look at how, look at how and everyone did

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.600
<v Speaker 1>is like everyone did, and we'll get to that in

0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.520
<v Speaker 1>a little. Um. What is interesting to me is that

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:29.000
<v Speaker 1>this biography does condemn his mistress for capitalizing on the congo.

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>It notes that she was called the Queen of the

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Congo by the people of Belgium for she was to

0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.680
<v Speaker 1>benefit largely by the atrocities committed in the Free State.

0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.920
<v Speaker 1>We're sweating and bleeding natives labored so as to accumulate

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 1>millions for the royal favorite. So like he again, he

0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.520
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really attack Leopold ever, like he's like, yeah, he

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.480
<v Speaker 1>did some bad stuff, But this biographer goes off on

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>her mistress for like taking money from him. That's that's

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 1>blood money, which it is blood money, but like she's

0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the least objectionable person situation. Um so, yeah, yeah, she

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.559
<v Speaker 1>has a little Melannia asked, I suppose she is, and

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.240
<v Speaker 1>she maybe knew more what she was getting into at

0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 1>the top. Yeah, she probably knew less about them because,

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 1>like I doubt, just a rich guy. Yeah, she just

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.599
<v Speaker 1>wanted to marry a rich guy, Like I doubt. He

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:20.560
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem like the kind of guy who have talked

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>to his mistress about the hands or that they were

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 1>murdering people with. And it's at the time especially quite

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 1>easy to ignore you forget about. You don't share a

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of that stuff with you, Yeah, especially not your

0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 1>teenage child bride. And as a teenage child bride to

0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:38.800
<v Speaker 1>just feel like, I don't read those books. Yeah, I

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>don't read that article. Yeah yeah. Um So. In the

0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 1>early nineteen hundreds, more and more stories of abuse in

0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.760
<v Speaker 1>the Congo hit the world press. People actually started to

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.080
<v Speaker 1>take notice and care. They read about things like an

0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.319
<v Speaker 1>entire towns worth of boys being giving fifty lashes each,

0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 1>which is a fatal sentence for laughing in the presence

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of a white man. Uh. In nineteen o four, one

0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 1>of the rubber companies in the Congo put one of

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.560
<v Speaker 1>its own men on trial, mostly to show that they

0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>were trying to do something about all of the horrible crimes.

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>The guy Charles Couldron was accused of murdering at least

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>a hundred and twenty two Africans. The case wound up

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.800
<v Speaker 1>revealing a bunch of fun up details about like how

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 1>all the hostage taking and the hand taking and stuff

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 1>actually worked. Um. But Caldrone was released due to quote

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 1>extenuating circumstances. The court said that he'd had to contend

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 1>with quote great difficulties under which could Drone found himself

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>accomplishing his mission in the midst of a population absolutely

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 1>resistant to any idea of work, and which respects no

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 1>other law than force, and knows no other means of

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>persuasion than terror. Um. So yeah, they were asking for

0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 1>it defense. They were asking for it works it that

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 1>also still works today kind it does, but it was

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 1>it was stopping. This is at the point where it

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 1>was working less and less in the congo um and

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 1>in the early nineteen hundreds, Leopold starts dealing with more

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 1>and more resistance to his ideas um, both in the

0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.440
<v Speaker 1>congo end at home. So this is also kind of

0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the point of where socialism is starting to rise, and

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 1>socialists obviously are a big fans of kings. Um. Leopold

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 1>declared himself a mortal enemy of socialism. He fought against

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the universal right to vote for all Belgians. Still in

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the playbook, both of those things. In nine two, the

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Belgian Labor Party called a general strike and Leopold called

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 1>for it to be brutally stopped. The strikers were fired

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760
<v Speaker 1>upon by city guards and eight people were killed. The

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 1>massacre was a calculated message to the socialists, don't funk

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 1>with the money trained. Leopold was willing to kill a

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 1>hell of a lot more than eight people to keep

0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 1>the money coming. In has Child's book relates one six

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.520
<v Speaker 1>week campaign in the Congo that killed quote over nine

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 1>hundred natives, men, women, and children in order to add

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.840
<v Speaker 1>twenty tons of rubber a month to one region's productivity.

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>They gives you an idea of the kind of calculus

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>he's making. Yeah, Yeah, that's how I mean. Right, it's

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 1>just lives for rubber. Yeah, it's just lives for rubber

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 1>has a commodity price. Yeah. Um. I have to point

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 1>out that none of the revelations brutality did much to

0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 1>hurt Leopold's popularity at home in Belgium. He was growing

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.800
<v Speaker 1>less popular and even hated in a lot of Europe.

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 1>But even today are Belgian museums that proudly talk about

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>his anti slavery campaigns that ignore the whole genocide thing.

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 1>The crimes against humanity didn't hurt Leopold's legacy. The only

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.240
<v Speaker 1>thing Belgium couldn't forgive him for was being a shitty

0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 1>dad and having a mistress. In nineteen o four, Leopold's

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 1>daughter Stephanie sued her father, the king, for keeping her

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 1>chunk of her mother's inheritance. Leopold fought in court for

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 1>the right to deny his children their inheritance, and in

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 1>fact denied them any wealth or property even after his death.

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Around this time, a Belgian cabinet minister noted that quote,

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 1>the king has but two dreams, to die a billionaire

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 1>and to disinherit his daughters. I mean, what father doesn't

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>want that? A lot of ways kind of cool, A

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>lot always kind of cool. Uh So in nineteen o six,

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.880
<v Speaker 1>King Leopold finally marries the Baroness. They have two sons.

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 1>His second son was born with a malformed arm, that

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.040
<v Speaker 1>just sort of ended in a stump with no hand. Obviously,

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 1>some people suggested this might be a judgment from God

0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 1>for all the millions of hands that Leopold ordered severed,

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.200
<v Speaker 1>which is almost more fucked up if you think about

0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the morality behind, Like this guy cut off millions of

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.399
<v Speaker 1>people's hands, let's funk off his innocent baby's hand. Yeah,

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 1>that's not how you do that, if you got first

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.919
<v Speaker 1>of all, that is definitely how God do that. God

0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 1>is punchy on the messages. Yeah, God, God ain't great

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.880
<v Speaker 1>with making sure these people get their just desserts. Yeah, yeah,

0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.680
<v Speaker 1>because right, because it's so funny. It's like all these

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.919
<v Speaker 1>like just so kind of stories where God is just

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.879
<v Speaker 1>a little like tricky metaphor man, like, Oh, you didn't

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>expect this, didn't You didn't think God would do that?

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Just God, get it right, man? Yeah, Hey, speaking of hands,

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 1>why don't you use both of them to order the

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.439
<v Speaker 1>products that we are about to advertise. Here they go

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.439
<v Speaker 1>and we're back. So the general and seemliness of the

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.200
<v Speaker 1>king's young bride and the disinheritance of his daughters meant

0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 1>the public sort of deserted Leopold. Once the Human rights

0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>campaign against his atrocities really took off. In nineteen o eight,

0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.760
<v Speaker 1>King Leopold was forced to bequeath his control of the

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Congo to the Belgian government. In exchange, they paid for

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the colonies hundred and ten million francs worth of debt,

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.639
<v Speaker 1>most of which had been accrued because Leopold used the

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Free State as a bank to buy gifts for his mistresses.

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Before he hands over control of the colony, he'd ruled

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 1>with an iron fist for more than twenty years. Leopold

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.080
<v Speaker 1>has all of the Congo state records burned. I will

0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 1>give them my Congo, he said. But they have no

0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 1>right to know what I did there. Oh what fun

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.159
<v Speaker 1>such a piece of ship. So the thing that I

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.880
<v Speaker 1>say all the time or think about, it's like, yes,

0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:50.200
<v Speaker 1>of course there have been massive conspiracies in history, and

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure today, but like oftentimes, like there isn't like

0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 1>the basic human competency to pull off some of the

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>more far fetched, you know, like a pizza gate style thing.

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 1>You're like, how could everyone cover this up? And then

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>it's like just hearing a story of nineteenth century to

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 1>twentieth century like attention to detail. Because he's a genius

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.919
<v Speaker 1>like he really is like a genius in the sense

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.640
<v Speaker 1>that like if you saw a character execute a plan

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.360
<v Speaker 1>like this in a movie, it would be like, that's

0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>a little far fext that he get away with it,

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.440
<v Speaker 1>But he did, and he's he is an evil genius. Yeah,

0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.160
<v Speaker 1>And I guess you know what, and it's I guess

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.080
<v Speaker 1>it was from a time when little people were less

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 1>empowered to speak up, yes, because that's the real thing.

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.199
<v Speaker 1>It's like it would be hard to pull off a

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 1>pizza Gate because it's not like the top conspirators would

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.359
<v Speaker 1>go to jail, but it's like there's gonna be a

0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 1>janitor who's like, what the fund is this? What is

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.439
<v Speaker 1>going on? Kids in this basement? Yeah, and that's like

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.399
<v Speaker 1>less likely to happen. That was more controllable back in

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.240
<v Speaker 1>the day, clearly. Yeah. And and even when that it

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 1>started coming out, Um, there's a lot less of a

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.640
<v Speaker 1>media landscape. You only get the news from your newspapers.

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.879
<v Speaker 1>You read every newspaper. Most people don't read much of

0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 1>one newspaper. So if you're a guy like Leopold, you've

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 1>got the money to make the press do what you want.

0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 1>And if I if I understand my history correctly, which

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I probably don't. That was a time when the public

0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>had more of an expectation that media was biased. It

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>was just the right. Well, yeah, this is like a

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of this is right around the time when America

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 1>gets involved in a war with Spain. That's essentially pushed

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.400
<v Speaker 1>by two different newspaper magnets wanting to sell more papers.

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.400
<v Speaker 1>So like, yeah, the press, he doesn't have a great

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 1>reputation now, yeah, but even it still didn't have a

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>great reputation then. Um, so yeah, it's like a perfect storm,

0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.919
<v Speaker 1>but it also is it was a legitimately brilliant scheme,

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.399
<v Speaker 1>and he did his best to cover his tracks. Uh.

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.080
<v Speaker 1>And he died in December of nineteen nine at the

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 1>age of eighty four. Uh super rich. Uh did you

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:03.320
<v Speaker 1>make that billion? Well we'll get to that in a minute. Um.

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.480
<v Speaker 1>The biography published the next year said that quote, were

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 1>it not for his private life, his domestic affairs, and

0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>his avarice, he would have retained his popularity to the

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.119
<v Speaker 1>very last. Belgium as a nation, with the exception of

0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.760
<v Speaker 1>the socialists, would have forgiven him the Congo atrocities. Indeed,

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.160
<v Speaker 1>she has forgiven him, for after all, she is destined

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.639
<v Speaker 1>to benefit by them, and she will not grudge her

0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 1>king the Royal commission he pocketed on the enterprise. And

0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 1>this is where again I want to point out that

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.600
<v Speaker 1>in some total there's no percent agreed upon death toll

0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 1>for Leopold's regime in the Congo, but the likely numbers

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.199
<v Speaker 1>are between ten and thirteen million, possibly as high as

0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>fifteen million people um. And the Congo was definitely the

0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.119
<v Speaker 1>bloodiest of any of the colonists in Africa by a

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.960
<v Speaker 1>substantial margin. But they all killed a lot of people,

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of them killed a lot of people

0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.560
<v Speaker 1>making rubber. And one of the things that was found

0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:00.719
<v Speaker 1>out after Leopold's death is that in the bloody French

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and German colonies that were producing rubber, Leopold owned a

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 1>majority of several of the large rubber making corporations and

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.679
<v Speaker 1>those colonies too, so he was also the first like

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>pan multinational. Right, the corporations can be the conduits for

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.919
<v Speaker 1>the scumbags, because the corporations are the scumbags, of course.

0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 1>But Jesus Christ, yeah, so he's he's he's a real monster.

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 1>The late king achieved his ambition of disinheriting his daughters.

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 1>He left them only fifteen million francs, the exact amount

0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.359
<v Speaker 1>he'd inherited from his father. His entire fortune went to

0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Baroness Devon, the prostitute courts On that he fell in

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.320
<v Speaker 1>love with and married. After his death, she immediately married drou,

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.160
<v Speaker 1>her pimp, and spent the rest of her life living

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.680
<v Speaker 1>lavishly off the gold made by the blood of Congolese labor.

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Which she doesn't come out as good as I don't know.

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I kind of like that his inheritance got stolen by

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a scheming prostitute and her pimp friend. Yeah, that's better

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:02.040
<v Speaker 1>than I can us. If she had murdered him, that

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 1>would have if she'd strangled him with his own beard

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 1>job al Yeah, or poison him. Maybe she did poison him.

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she had poisoned him. I can't hope, so I

0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:16.200
<v Speaker 1>certainly don't know. Um oh what a grim mass tail. Fuck. Yeah.

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>His biography, the nineteen ten biography, summed up Leopold's life

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.080
<v Speaker 1>this way Leopold the second New Belgium, New Europe and

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 1>new humanity. And like a strong man, he had a

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 1>deep contempt for everything and everybody. He loved his country

0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:36.280
<v Speaker 1>and his own interests for all. Love is after all selfish.

0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.400
<v Speaker 1>It's the Victorian Age is a bleak gas period. There's

0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:42.800
<v Speaker 1>also you know, speaking of although it's not exactly the

0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 1>same players, but it's the same types of institutions every

0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.119
<v Speaker 1>one of y'all who whenever this comes out, you'll have

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:52.639
<v Speaker 1>just enjoyed the royal wedding. Yeah, that ship has built

0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.240
<v Speaker 1>off the back of ship, like exactly like this, well,

0:23:55.560 --> 0:24:00.159
<v Speaker 1>less artful than this a lot not even good was

0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 1>because this is if you can like the it's it's

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 1>up there with the Holocaust in terms of like the

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 1>greatest crimes in human history. But as a scheme, his

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 1>planned is it's like almost artwork. It's like watching The

0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Joker and The Good Christinal and Batman. Yeah, but also

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.119
<v Speaker 1>that one too, where you're like it has similar moments

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 1>of like I feel like some of these lives are

0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:30.120
<v Speaker 1>just to do the lie. Yeah, it's not even about

0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 1>achieving the aid need to do this yeah yeah, yeah,

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:34.679
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of like the funk you do that

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.440
<v Speaker 1>for well, it's crazy and so one of the more

0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:40.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's so many fund up things about this.

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.720
<v Speaker 1>I really recommend reading King Leopold's Ghost by Adam host Child.

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.399
<v Speaker 1>It's a great book. And it really delves into the

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.960
<v Speaker 1>human misery caused by this regime. But you know, you're

0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:54.920
<v Speaker 1>you're talking ten to fifteen million people killed, millions more

0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 1>left without hands, left maimed, starved, like whose villages were

0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 1>destroyed the go Today, it's still probably the least stable

0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 1>state in Africa, or at least one of them, because

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:08.760
<v Speaker 1>all social order was destroyed. He swats the party like that.

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:15.199
<v Speaker 1>It continues to this day. Leopold's profits, Yeah, roughly a

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:20.199
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars in modern currency. That's bonkers, that's I feel like,

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 1>that's fucking nothing for what he did in terms of right.

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Not a billion dollars in nineteen o nine money. Billion

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:32.080
<v Speaker 1>dollars in today's money is what he got for killing

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 1>ten to fifteen million people and destroying Central Africa. That's Jesus. Yeah,

0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 1>he's not even extracting enough wealth, like you could do

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.719
<v Speaker 1>that just by closing up bookshops. Yeah, And I think

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that is because he had to spend

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:49.680
<v Speaker 1>so much money on an army, on policing the state

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>of fighting, because there were a bunch of rebellions, people

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.240
<v Speaker 1>who thought back. He had to he had to suppress

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 1>those rebellions, and he had to pay all these journalists

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>and like, yeah, there you go, fucking capitalists, and he's

0:25:59.880 --> 0:26:03.359
<v Speaker 1>like and profitable to be the worst person. Although I

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.560
<v Speaker 1>guess that was the second lesson that everyone turned is like, oh,

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 1>the real prophets in pr and making people think they

0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:11.119
<v Speaker 1>want to do this now. I want to ask you

0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:13.600
<v Speaker 1>a question that occurred to me when I finished researching this,

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 1>and I wonder about this, like is Leopold a worse

0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.919
<v Speaker 1>person than Hitler? Because I can't not think about that

0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:26.959
<v Speaker 1>line in The Big Lebowski where what's his name Walter's like,

0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>say what you will about national socialism. At least it's

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:34.480
<v Speaker 1>an ethos. Hitler committed crimes on a on a similar,

0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:37.000
<v Speaker 1>if not much greater scale if you include all of

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 1>the war dead, but he had like an ideology behind it,

0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.960
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to Leopold, who this was never anything but money.

0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 1>There was no hatred, there was no goal, there was

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.479
<v Speaker 1>no view of the world. It was purely if I

0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.040
<v Speaker 1>can make money, and killing these people is the fastest

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>way to get it. I don't care what happens to

0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:58.680
<v Speaker 1>them because I want money. And it was also like separate.

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:04.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously, I guess it's just different things. They

0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:07.800
<v Speaker 1>are very different things. Although, like when you look at

0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the Holocaust, and this is something that's often glossed over

0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.520
<v Speaker 1>when people talk about the Holocaust is how much of

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:15.119
<v Speaker 1>it was a money making endeavor from the German state

0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 1>because they were literally mining people to death in terms

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>of like taking their hair, taking the gold fillings out

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:24.160
<v Speaker 1>of them, taking their businesses beforehand, and taking their property.

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:26.199
<v Speaker 1>So I mean you have with most of like and

0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 1>with really with every great genocide, because like if you

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.440
<v Speaker 1>look at the Rwandan genocide, there was a lot of

0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>financial motivation. There are people wanting each other's farms and one, yeah,

0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 1>I I have to imagine like those are the things

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.040
<v Speaker 1>that allow I mean, like all look but like all

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:42.600
<v Speaker 1>conflict to It's like like especially anything sectarian or religious,

0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:45.640
<v Speaker 1>like the Crusades. You know, you can make an economic

0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:49.359
<v Speaker 1>case for the Crusades or or or colonialism or at large,

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:52.359
<v Speaker 1>like all that is sort of possible. I think the

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 1>thing with Leopold's evil is as as we've discussed already.

0:27:56.080 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like, though not in the same degree, anyone listening

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:07.119
<v Speaker 1>to this on a podcast thing and on exactly is

0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 1>complicit in something along Leopold's vector whereas it's fewer of

0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:19.359
<v Speaker 1>us listening to this podcast are complicit in some type

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.840
<v Speaker 1>of thing that Hitler has involved in. So I think

0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:24.640
<v Speaker 1>it behooves us to say Hitler is more evil because

0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:28.320
<v Speaker 1>we don't want to be part you know. Yeah, the

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 1>banality that I mean, look, not banality, but the you know,

0:28:31.400 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 1>the it's in the direction of banality. I think you're

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 1>onto something that's great there. And I think that's why

0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the idea of the banality of evil is so important

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 1>is because Hitler is it's so easy to see the

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.560
<v Speaker 1>evil and Hitler because he was he was showy with

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 1>like he's the most showy villain in all of history.

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Leopold was a weird old man who had a stupid

0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>beard and sat in his office and never shot anybody

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 1>in RhoD of tricycle to his mistress and was just

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:01.600
<v Speaker 1>this weird old dude who was happy to orchestrate one

0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 1>of like the great crimes in human history just for

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>some cash in his pocket. And that's scarier. Yeah, and

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:09.080
<v Speaker 1>you can imagine that he doesn't come up with the

0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 1>hands for bullets scheme. No, he's just doesn't need to.

0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 1>We can't let them have bullets. We have to make

0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.200
<v Speaker 1>sure that, like we're accounting for all the bullets, that

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:20.600
<v Speaker 1>they're not saving them up for a rebellion. What can

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:22.560
<v Speaker 1>we do, Oh, well, we just make sure they prove

0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:24.600
<v Speaker 1>to us they're using the bullets for good reason when

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 1>they fire them. How about we have them bringing a hand. Great,

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:29.560
<v Speaker 1>and that's probably the end of the cons and then

0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:33.719
<v Speaker 1>the first person people lose hands, like, then a crime

0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 1>on an unspeakable scale happens. And he's just like sitting

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.360
<v Speaker 1>at home being like, boy, I wonder why productions down

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 1>this week. But he can also be like, I'm not

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>the one that came up with the hands thing. It's

0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:44.080
<v Speaker 1>a shame. He can even be like all the hand

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.720
<v Speaker 1>things are real shame. Yeah, that's a real shame. One

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 1>of my new guys, you know these you know the walloons. Yeah,

0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:51.720
<v Speaker 1>you put them in charge of something and they mess

0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:53.520
<v Speaker 1>it up. I hate that we have to do this,

0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 1>but of course we do need that rubber. Yeah, that's

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 1>that's the thing that you know. And look, that's a

0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 1>version of every one of us calls ourselves every fucking day. Yeah.

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>So that's why I think most people would say Hitler

0:30:05.800 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 1>is a worse, more evil person because we don't want

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 1>to be complicit in our own evil. Hey, everybody, this

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 1>is Robert Evans from the future. I realized that this

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.200
<v Speaker 1>podcast was a teeny bit incomplete. There was some more

0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 1>information I want to give out, so I gained access

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 1>to a time machine and went back in time to

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>to record it. It was either fixed the podcast or

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 1>stop nine eleven. Hopefully I made the right decision. But UM,

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:34.600
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to say a little bit more about the Chakote,

0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:36.720
<v Speaker 1>which we we talked about a little bit in this podcast.

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 1>That's the hippo hyde whip that was the primary disciplinary

0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>tool in the Congo Free State. UM. The book King

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Leopold's Ghost makes a big deal out of the Chakote,

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and it's probably true that the Belgians under Leopold whipped

0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 1>more people to death than any other regime in history. UM.

0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 1>But that book also points out that whipping people to

0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>death or nearly to death was basically the bedrock that

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 1>colonialism was founded upon. UM. It relates the story of

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Roger Casement. We didn't get to talk

0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:02.480
<v Speaker 1>to you in this podcast, but he's a very interesting dude.

0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:04.920
<v Speaker 1>He's one of the men who investigated atrocities in the Congo.

0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>He also wound up investigating a lot of atrocities in

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 1>the Amazon at a place called Puta Mayo, where the

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Peruvian Amazon Rubber Company had been caught basically enslaving and

0:31:14.040 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 1>murdering people to produce even more rubber. UM. And this

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 1>was for I think the British. It was mostly a

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:21.960
<v Speaker 1>British owned company, although it was like a corporation with

0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different sort of stockholders behind it. UM

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 1>and the Peruvian Amazon Rubber Company dealt out punishments with

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:31.000
<v Speaker 1>a whip of their own that was actually a two

0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>peer hide whip UM, but it was similar to the

0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:36.760
<v Speaker 1>jacote and its effect. Roughly thirty thousand indigenous people in

0:31:36.800 --> 0:31:40.640
<v Speaker 1>the Amazon died mining rubber for that company. UM whips.

0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>It turns out we're basically the glue that made colonialism

0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 1>UM possible. I found one book on slavery in the

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.560
<v Speaker 1>British West Indies published in eighteen twenty four, that admits

0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:51.840
<v Speaker 1>that whips were quote the main spring of the agricultural

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.560
<v Speaker 1>system in that region of the Empire. Whips were also

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.560
<v Speaker 1>critical to the French colonies as far back as the

0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 1>seventeen hundreds, when a visitor to the French Antilles noticed

0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.840
<v Speaker 1>that the use of whips was quote always excessive and barbarous,

0:32:02.840 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 1>with the potential of maiming the victim by assaulting his

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:08.040
<v Speaker 1>private parts or even killing him, if not instantly, as

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>has already been the case, in due course, as is

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 1>often the case. So whipping and slavery go hand in hand. Obviously.

0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't think most people are surprised by that, but

0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people would be surprised to

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 1>know that Europeans didn't stop whipping subject people once slavery

0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.200
<v Speaker 1>was over. The Congo and the Amazon are proof of that, um,

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 1>but the atomic bomb is actually even more proof. After

0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Leopold died, the Belgians continued to control the Congo region,

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 1>and they moved on from rubber farming to mining. In

0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 1>the first six months of nineteen twenty, a single gold

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:38.920
<v Speaker 1>mine is recorded as issuing over twenty six thousand lashes

0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 1>to his workers, more than eight lashes for every single

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 1>African quote employed there. I say, you know, employed in

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:50.000
<v Speaker 1>quotation marks. Because the Belgians kept right on using forced labor,

0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:51.960
<v Speaker 1>as did the British and Kenya up and into the

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 1>modern era. By World War Two, Belgium required a hundred

0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and twenty days per year of labor for each adult

0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>male inhabitant of the Congo reach. And it turns out

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 1>that of the uranium mind to make the bombs dropped

0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:07.680
<v Speaker 1>on Hiroshima and Nagasaki came from Congolese minds that used

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:10.479
<v Speaker 1>forced labor, which means we can thank the Jacote for

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the first atom bombs. The British are also famous for

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:16.080
<v Speaker 1>flogging their colonial subjects well into the middle of the

0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:18.640
<v Speaker 1>twentieth century. By the nineteen twenties, Kenya was the colony

0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:20.720
<v Speaker 1>where the British used the most corporal punishment, or as

0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>they called it, rough justice UH. Flogging was seen to

0:33:24.360 --> 0:33:27.000
<v Speaker 1>be necessary in order to deal with the quote raw

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:30.240
<v Speaker 1>native Africans, who were perhaps so raw because the British

0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.240
<v Speaker 1>regularly whipped them bloody uh. There were attempts in the

0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirties to alter British penal laws in the colony

0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.160
<v Speaker 1>to be less brutal, but they didn't exactly stop the

0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 1>problem of white colonists treating black natives like shit. Brutality

0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:44.000
<v Speaker 1>and the Kenyan colony eventually led to the Mau Mau Uprising,

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 1>which started in nineteen fifty two when a bunch of rebels,

0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 1>calling themselves the Mau Mau killed thirty two white people.

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>This made England go batch it crazy. Uh. The English

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:55.080
<v Speaker 1>forces rounded up a hundred and fifty thousand Kenyans and

0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.360
<v Speaker 1>through them into concentration camps, where they were starved and

0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:01.000
<v Speaker 1>beaten regularly. One survivor recalled, we were forced to do

0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 1>work carrying bricks to build a school. We were beating

0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>if we moved too slowly. It was very hard work.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:07.720
<v Speaker 1>They would just flog everyone. At times, four or five

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.400
<v Speaker 1>guards with whips would come into the cell. So at

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.560
<v Speaker 1>least twelve thousand people were killed during the Mamou uprising,

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:15.239
<v Speaker 1>although it's hard to say how many of them died

0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 1>from being whipped. The brutalizing effect of whipping people certainly

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:19.759
<v Speaker 1>had an impact on the British men who did it.

0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 1>A Kenyan judge who investigated whipping, torture and murder at

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:25.760
<v Speaker 1>one British interrogation center compared it to a Nazi labor

0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 1>camp and said, quote from the brutalizing of flogging, it

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 1>is only a step to taking a life without qualm.

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.440
<v Speaker 1>So uh, I just thought this is a good information

0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:36.960
<v Speaker 1>to know. People talk about colonialism a lot and it

0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:40.279
<v Speaker 1>gets you know, a lot of well deserved harsh criticism

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:43.080
<v Speaker 1>these days. But I think that the people who rightly

0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:46.320
<v Speaker 1>view it as a as a horrible historical crime also

0:34:46.400 --> 0:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>tend to kind of push it further back in history

0:34:49.000 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>and sort of assume that most of the worst stuff

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 1>was done and you know, the seventeen and eighteen hundreds.

0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:57.799
<v Speaker 1>The reality is that colonialism was still exporting wealth from

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:03.360
<v Speaker 1>African nations, you know, into Europe well into the twentieth century,

0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:06.239
<v Speaker 1>and that the European nations were using brutal and in

0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways medieval justice measures in order to

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 1>keep the colonies compliant. So, uh, there's your happy little

0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:16.360
<v Speaker 1>reminder that not only was colonialism and nightmare, but it

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 1>is a nightmare that happened recently enough that a lot

0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of people are still alive to remember it today. Uh

0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.479
<v Speaker 1>So just keep that in mind, I guess. And now

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to use my magical time powers to go

0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 1>back to you know, when Andrew and I were sitting

0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>in the room. Yeah, and we don't wanna We also

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.200
<v Speaker 1>don't want to acknowledge like when you go to Belgium,

0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:40.520
<v Speaker 1>which I love Belgium, on there a couple of times

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:43.719
<v Speaker 1>beautiful country, best beer I've ever had in the world,

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 1>gorgeous giant buildings, many in like the cities and stuff

0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:50.960
<v Speaker 1>like ain't really old, beautiful museums and stuff, many of

0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:56.360
<v Speaker 1>which are built on congo money um, and so you

0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:00.600
<v Speaker 1>don't and in like we're shooting on Belgium here, but

0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:02.600
<v Speaker 1>that's like all of Europe you go to, you go

0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:07.560
<v Speaker 1>to uh, American South and they're American North. Yeah, like

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>that's everything was built on the backs of that ship.

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:16.239
<v Speaker 1>So and you know there's there were good people at

0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:19.000
<v Speaker 1>all times being like that sucks, this is really messed up.

0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but that's the same every you pick up

0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:23.120
<v Speaker 1>an iPhone, you're like, it sucks that someone had a

0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:25.680
<v Speaker 1>south from that. I do need it though, well, and

0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>there are and this is again the thing that Leopold's

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Ghost is a good job of going into. There are

0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:32.759
<v Speaker 1>the heroes in this story. There's the guy like Colonel Washington,

0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:34.800
<v Speaker 1>who I was there and right, there's guys like Morrell

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 1>who are who like who don't even see it firsthand,

0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 1>but put it together like this can't stand. I have

0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:43.359
<v Speaker 1>to do something and I hope that like like that's

0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the we got to focus on Leopold in this both

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:48.720
<v Speaker 1>because his story is the blueprint of every terrible person

0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:50.960
<v Speaker 1>who came after him. He really is the first modern

0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 1>monster world like head of State, the first one to

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.120
<v Speaker 1>use pr in a really modern way. But it's important.

0:36:58.120 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>It's just as important to think about the guys like Morrell,

0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:03.239
<v Speaker 1>who are probably more relevant to our own lives because

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.319
<v Speaker 1>they pointed like, well, you can do something. Yeah, and

0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:08.760
<v Speaker 1>you don't have to just say this it's a shame,

0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:13.799
<v Speaker 1>yeah exactly, and it might take fifteen years, but you can. Yeah, Like,

0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.799
<v Speaker 1>these guys will still win to some extent, but you

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:20.120
<v Speaker 1>can know where the margins by which they win you

0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:22.680
<v Speaker 1>can put into their profits. Well, right, it's a it's

0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 1>just a battle. All you can do is make it

0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 1>less profitable. The Capitalist Revolution. That is our podcast for

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:34.160
<v Speaker 1>the week. Uh, Andrew, you want to plug your plugables?

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, well just just please listen to you know,

0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:38.840
<v Speaker 1>is this racist? Uh? I used to think it was

0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the most depressing podcast on the internet, but not anymore.

0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 1>And I'm Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:48.080
<v Speaker 1>at at I right, okay, you can find this podcast

0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 1>on the internet at Behind the Bastards dot com. You

0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 1>can find us on social media at at Bastard's Pod.

0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I've got a book you can find on Amazon, Brief

0:37:57.000 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 1>History of Vice. Um, so yeah, check my stuff out,

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:03.040
<v Speaker 1>check us out. We will be back every single Tuesday

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:05.040
<v Speaker 1>from now until the heat death of the Universe with

0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:08.640
<v Speaker 1>a new Bastard. So check that us next. Yes, I

0:38:08.680 --> 0:38:19.200
<v Speaker 1>can't wait. Yep. Okay, m h m