1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: At the time the sand Hills came along, most of 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: the courses being built in the world were demographically driven. 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: The principle was you had to have population to support 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: the courses, and the courses went where people wanted to go. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Dick flipped that eighty degrees built a course where the 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: average population is two people per square a mile. He 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: was doing the well the proverbial field of dreams with 8 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: another logo five nobody getting to this is the fire 9 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: pit with Matt Toonella Welcome Back, Settle in episode seven 10 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: is more on the partnership that I considered the best 11 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: in the era of modern minimalist golf course architecture. Bill 12 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Core and Ben Crenshaw are currently building their thirtieth course 13 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: in thirty five years of working together. The two stories 14 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: we tell today are about the Capitaloo Plantation course on 15 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: Maui and sand Hills in Nebraska. Both have had significant 16 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: impact on their careers as well as golf in America. 17 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: In episode six, Part one of Core and Crenshaw, we 18 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: told the story of Bill and Ben's early influences as 19 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: it relates to course design, how they met, who was involved, 20 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: and why they decided to team up. We left off 21 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: in Bill Core of a small town in North Carolina, 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: already had worked for Pete die and had worked on 23 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: or built three courses, all in Texas, Waterwood, National, King's 24 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: Crossing and Rockport Country Club. I knew I like certain 25 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: courses and certain things, and I tried to figure out why, 26 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: but I really wasn't that much into it. And when 27 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: I saw what Pete was doing, a little public course 28 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: called Okolo in high Point, I gee, this is different. 29 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: I wonder how you do this. Meanwhile, Ben Crenshaw was 30 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: the Master's Champion in eighty four, and in nineteen eighty 31 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: five Ben had married Julie. He had started working with 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: Scotty Says, a lifetime friend who became his business manager, 33 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: and physically he had health issues which was causing problems 34 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: both on and off the course. And yet after meeting 35 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: Bill and walking Rockport Country Club, he had decided he 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: found a guy who shared the same design philosophies. Bill 37 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: Corp was the partner Ben needed to build golf courses. 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: It was it was just unbelabeled how this happened. Eighty 39 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: five is when Wade decided to make a go at this, 40 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: and that was the year I married Julie. So I 41 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: made two really good decisions. But it was Bill who 42 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: resisted the idea of partnering with someone for the sake 43 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: of a name. He wasn't really interested, you know, I 44 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: can understand that, and were not. It sound like he 45 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: came around and he said, you know, maybe maybe maybe 46 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: we could give this a go, which brings us back 47 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: to the end of Bill. Ben and Scotty were in 48 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: on this partnership. Julie Crenshaw still had her doubts, and 49 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: I was like, are you sure you want to do this? 50 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: You know, because what he was struggling with his health, 51 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: struggling with this game. We just got married. We weren't 52 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: even certain he was ever going to play competitive golf again, 53 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: having been told for a few years and by several 54 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: potential clients that they liked his work, but that if 55 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: he partnered with a recognizable name, it would help sell 56 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: the finished product. Core was already noticing that Crenshaw was 57 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: getting their team seats at bigger and better meetings, and 58 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: there was even some interest from national media. Ben, you 59 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: and I knew Ron Winton, whom you've known for so 60 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: many years, who was the architectural editor and golf Digest. 61 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: Ron Winton came to Austin to interview us for a 62 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: story to do about uh, this partnership we had found. 63 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: Now obviously that story, the whole foundation of is Ben's 64 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: reputation and background and playing career. And here he is, 65 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: he's getting involved in this, in this design partnership. But 66 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: Ron Witton comes in with a tape recorder and we're 67 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: going to have this interview. He turns the tape recorder on, 68 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: he lays it on the table and the first question 69 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: he asked is, so you've formed this design partnership. What's 70 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: the name of the company. And there's just silence. We 71 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: had never talked about it. I'm not sure I've ever 72 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: thought at about it. Ben is the one who spoke 73 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: up and he said the name of the company is 74 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: Koor and Crenshaw. There was no reason not to put 75 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: Bill up front. He's the he's the man. And you know, 76 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Even to this day, Uh, Bill 77 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: the leads our table. He's the leader. When I asked later, 78 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: I remember asking him afterwards, how did you come up 79 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:33,559 Speaker 1: with that? And it's an alphabetic order, but it sounds better. 80 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Ben makes a good point, Core and Crenshaw sounds better 81 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: than Crenshaw and Core. But I asked Ben when he 82 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: says Bill is the leader, what exactly does that mean? 83 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: Interest supersedes Linked? And yeah, the whole world is enamored 84 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: with Link. But interest is what I saw in Rockport 85 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: Country Club. Pete Die Roy, Die Rod Whitman, Jack Nicholas, 86 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: Dave Kerry, Charlie Bellair, Mike McKay and Jerry Scrooge Clark 87 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: were all key to this match, which one developer predicted 88 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: would be a quote disaster, had to start. He actually 89 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: looked smart. We started two projects. That was our goal, 90 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: to try to two courses at once, you know, at 91 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: the same time if anyone would ever hire us. We 92 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: weren't sure that was ever going to happen, but it did. 93 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: We began two projects. Uh neither one of them were completed. 94 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Both of them we actually had holes rushed and ready 95 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: for irrigation, and they both fell by the way, uh 96 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 1: during the savings and loan crisis of the late nineteen eighties. 97 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: And UH, in the process of that, we we committed 98 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: to two other projects, and lo and behold, the same 99 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: thing happened. It. So we spent the first two years 100 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: of our partnership, producing zero nothing. I guess it was 101 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: maybe a year and a half, or could have been 102 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: two years after. He wrote the initial piece for Golf Digest, 103 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: and he's in it. He said that we were the 104 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: only two people that ever formed a design partnership and 105 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: then immediately retired because that's what it looked like we 106 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: had done. We produced nothing. The cupboard was a little bear. 107 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: Of the four courses they started, the first was in Austin, 108 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: which was called Uplands, the second in Magnolia. They had 109 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: shaped eleven greens before they stopped the project. Almost thirty 110 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: years later, that property became blue Jack National and Tiger 111 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: Woods designed the third corn crunch On Misfire, was in Baltimore, 112 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: and the fourth was in Colorado, two miles from where 113 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: they'd eventually build the Colorado Golf Club. I asked Bill 114 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: if the start stops were important to getting them where 115 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: they needed to go as a team. I can't, truthfully, 116 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: so I've ever given it thought about it in that way, 117 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: But instantly my reaction is yes, it was a very 118 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: in spite of this fact to have frustrating and difficult, 119 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: it was. Uh. It gave us the opportunity to spend 120 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: time together on sites with the guys with um uh, 121 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the process of shaping in holes and 122 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 1: going from concepts to own the ground, um you know, reality. 123 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: And it was invaluable, you know, looking back on it, 124 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: it was it was. It's in some ways it could 125 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: very well have been the best thing that could have happened. 126 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Back in the late eighties, Ben had a full time 127 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: job on the PGA Tour. He had ten top tens, 128 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: he won draw finished top twenty in all four majors, 129 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: which included a fourth at the mass RS bills on 130 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: the income was building golf courses and he needed to win. 131 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: He found one doing a solo project in France. The 132 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: company had to do alone. And I will assure you 133 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: that loan was underwritten not by my financial statement. There 134 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: was by bands and and so that we could stay 135 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: in business and and the other part of that, Matt, 136 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: you're correct. We went to went to France. We did 137 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: a golf course in Bordeaux, golf may doc for a 138 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: guy who became such a good friend through the years, 139 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Bernard Pascacio, and built perception of golf is totally. And 140 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: then man we mine I both like traditional golf course 141 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: you know in the like field in Scotland or Pine 142 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Valley or say prest band Uh which the same time 143 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: appromichable for the for the amateur and competitive for the 144 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: professional player. Bernard Pascascio dipped in and out of the 145 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: European Tour from nineteen seventy one to nine. He won 146 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: fifteen tournaments in France and played in nine World Cups. 147 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: The Chateau course at Golf dem Doc opened in nine 148 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: and is considered one of the best courses in France 149 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: to this day. It remains the only Core or Core 150 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and Crenshaw design in Europe. Bill is a real strategy 151 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: genius and respective through of Natia. Bill is honest and 152 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: I have the respect him very much. I am proud 153 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: and happy to know him and the best in friends. 154 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: You know. Back in Texas and still in the eighties 155 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: they had another bike. Scotty says stepfather was helping develop 156 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: Barton Creek in Austin. The first course went to Tom Fasio, 157 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: cor and Crenshaw were on deck. It was an average 158 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: piece of property and I think Ben and Bill did 159 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: a great job. And there were environmental concerns all along 160 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: the way that slowed that project down. And and really 161 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: delayed that job where it actually opened after caple of it, 162 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: a couple no resort on Maui's north shore was building 163 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: more golf. Mark Rolfing, affectionately known as Mr Hawaii and 164 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: prior to working for NBC and the Golf Channel was 165 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: put in charge. I got involved in the plantation development 166 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: and kind of took the lead role in putting together 167 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: the golf part of the Colin Cameron, who was the 168 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: chairman mallue Land Pineapple Company, they put in the land. 169 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: We did a joint venture and he said, you're responsible 170 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: for the golf, you figure out how to do it. 171 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: So off I went interviewing golf course architects and had 172 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: no idea what I was wanting from them, because I 173 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: had no idea really what I wanted. It was. It 174 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: was kind of a blind leading the blind in a 175 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: little bit of a way, and uh, you know, somehow 176 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: I started talking to Ben Frendshaw. It was a seminal 177 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: uh golf course in our in our career, and you know, 178 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: and just making it happened to coincide with my marriage 179 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: as well. It's got all these other dimensions and it 180 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: was the piece of property that I saw first, and 181 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: he told me about this relationship that he had developed 182 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: with Bill. Core said, you've got to meet this man. 183 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: You have got to meet this man. Ben was was 184 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: that Coppola, He and Julie and he called and he said, Bill, 185 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: there's a there's a site here. I think we should consider, uh, 186 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, working with And I remember asking him on 187 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: the phone, I said, what does it look like? Ben? 188 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: I saw it at some plantation fields out there with 189 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: pineapple everywhere, absolutely gorgeous. And he and Bill said what 190 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: does it look like? And I said, well, it looks 191 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: like land gently rising from the sea. I've never been there. 192 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: I didn't, I hadn't seen it. I but somehow rising 193 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: gently from the sea conjured up images in my mind 194 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: that didn't quite match what I saw when I first 195 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: got there and went out with Mark rofing. We're standing 196 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: out there, we're now the clubhouse, basically where the clubhouses now. 197 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: I was looking backward up the hill where at the 198 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: eighteen toll is now, looking down the hill, you know, 199 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: as well, towards where the first hole is, and I'm 200 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: just I'm speechless. I I just God, it's got at 201 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: elevation changers slope and it's beautiful. It's stunningly beautiful. But 202 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: I just I really he didn't know quite what to 203 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: say other than I Finally I looked at Mark and 204 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: I said, Mark, when you and Ben were here? And 205 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: he called me. I said, what were you doing? And 206 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: he said, we brought a couple of coronas and we 207 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: watched the sunset. And I couldn't help it, man, I 208 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: just said, well, Mark, I hate to ask this question, 209 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: but how many coronas did you go? Hey? It took 210 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: me about ten minutes before I fell in love with 211 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: Bill Core and uh. And from that day on it 212 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: was like, you know, talking to the same person. I 213 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: remember asking Bill, you know, what's gonna happen if you 214 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: had been are here at the same time, And he said, 215 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. When you're talking to me, you're talking 216 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: to him. When you're talking to him, you're talking to me. 217 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: And boy was he right. And when you get on 218 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: the upper parts of the property, there's there's just the 219 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: most beautiful sites and and place. It's a big part 220 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: of the dimension of how how the property climbs and 221 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: then goes back down towards the clubhouse. You know, for 222 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: anyone who's been there five hundred ft elevation change between 223 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: the seventeen tea and the like the second green, and 224 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: so we would we'd be out there working and I 225 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: just couldn't help it. But almost every opportunity I got 226 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: when Ben was there, I would just somehow say, you know, 227 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: this is so so good. It's so easy to work with. 228 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: It just rises gently from the sea. They made you 229 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: believe that they were going to come up with something 230 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: that really fit the place, and they did. You got 231 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: to remember, too, there was a big tournament going on 232 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: here then. So for their first real project, not only 233 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: did they have an elevation should change of over four 234 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: hundred feet seven acres, they had to play a PGA 235 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: Tour event on it. That is a very difficult combination 236 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: of elements and and sort of ingredients and what had 237 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: to be cooked up. But it never faced him, and uh, 238 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, every time Bill would scratch his head, Ben 239 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: would smile and laugh and and I knew they would 240 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: figure it out. Couple of a plantation opened in and 241 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: has been the host of the PGA Tours Century Tournament 242 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: of Champions since it had to be a golf course 243 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: with the enormous scale in terms of the size of 244 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: the features, the fairways, the greens um to be just 245 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: to be playable. We look back and just go, you know, 246 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: it's different. It's a very different type of golf course. 247 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: And I have to say, even today, thirty years later 248 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, I don't think we would have done it differently. 249 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: I asked Mark Rolfing, what would have happened to corn 250 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: crunchhap if they didn't beat out guys like Palmer, Nicholas 251 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: and Fasio for the plantation job. Ben and Bill's business 252 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: was a fledgling business at the time. As you say, 253 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: they've been at it a couple of times. I think 254 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: this was a critical time for them and had the 255 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: plantation project fallen through for whatever reasons, you know, a 256 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: recession or you know, the Gulf War, if we hadn't 257 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: got in ahead of that, who knows. I think their 258 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: careers could have been uh, decidedly different. The funny thing 259 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: about that is early in the company's history, as we 260 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: were doing the course for Mark Rolfing, Mark offered us, 261 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, our fee I think was 262 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: two fifty thou dollars and Mark said, well, we'll either 263 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: give you your fear or you can have a lot here. Well, 264 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: we had a bank loan to pay off and been 265 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: in Bill and I wanted to take a salary and 266 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: we had some employees to pay at that time, so 267 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: we took the money and I think that lot so 268 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: for about five million dollars. That was one of the 269 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: most enjoyable times of my entire career, broadcast or anything else. 270 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: I just loved working with Ben and Bill. And you 271 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: know when when they came in and started this, Matt 272 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: there was no Core and Crunshaw style, you know, there 273 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: there was no sand Hills, there was no Friar said, 274 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: there was no Old Sandwich, so you didn't know what 275 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: the style was gonna be. And the thing I loved 276 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: about him was I think part of their theories evolved 277 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: through the plantation force. So that's sort of landmark number 278 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: one of the of the Core Crunshaw events, Cappelu really 279 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: brought attention to us. The phone started ringing in the office. 280 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: People were talking about golf courses. And I'm not sure 281 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: where Dick Young's kepp actually heard about us or what 282 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: we were doing, but he started coming around in about 283 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, and yeah, we were just wondering, what, 284 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, what is this guy thinking about doing a 285 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: course up in the middle of Nebraska. Dick Young's Cap 286 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: was a developer from Lincoln, Nebraska who in nine was 287 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: offered a deal on eight thousand acres of land in Mullen, 288 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: population four hundred and sixty three. Young's cap had a 289 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: hunch and a vision. Now he needed money and someone 290 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: to build a golf course. Core and Crenshaw weren't a 291 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: hard sell. Others had their doubts. Ben and Scottie and 292 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: I were all in the office. That doesn't happen very often, 293 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: but we were all there. Uh. Dick gets on the phone, 294 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: he introduces himself and and he's, uh, he's talking about 295 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: this property that's he's looking at in in Nebraska. And 296 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: instantly he says Nebraska. I'm thinking, you know, flat probably 297 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: maybe maybe not the most interesting property in the world. 298 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: Uh likely, And then Dick very quickly says, it's in 299 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: an area called the Sandhills in Nebraska. Lightbulbs gone mad 300 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: for me and for bed. I had a magazine that 301 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: I had subscribed to and it was it was a 302 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: it was an artist it was a Texas artist magazine. 303 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: And in in this thing and it did a layout 304 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: on the cattle ranches of Nebraska. I kept looking at 305 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: these old photos and I got it looked at just 306 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: like Britain and Ireland and Scotland rolling sandhills, sand Hills 307 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: of Nebraska. As for Bill, he first met ron Woton 308 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: in the late seventies back in Huntsville, Texas. Went Still, 309 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: an assistant district attorney, was writing a book about golf 310 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: course architecture and stopped in at Waterwood. I said something about, 311 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: what's the best land for golf you've ever seen? He's said, 312 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: in Nebraska, Nebraska. What are you talking about? He said, Bill, 313 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: There's a place called sand Hills in Nebraska. He said, 314 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: it's just some of the most magnificent land for golf 315 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: I have ever seen anywhere in the world. And then 316 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: in the late eighties, Bill was at Prairie Dunes in 317 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: Kansas walking with Doug Peterson, who was the superintendent at 318 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: the time. I was walking down the eighth fairway with 319 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: Doug and looking at those heaving contours in the in 320 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: the dunes. That Perry mix will just lay that incredible 321 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: that hole on. And I said to Doug, I said, Doug, 322 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: can you imagine having a piece of progerity like this? 323 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: To work with. And I remember distinctly, Mad Doug looked 324 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: at me and he goes, Bill, I know where there's 325 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: land better than this. And I'm looking at him, go, 326 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: what what do you, Tom, cannything be better than this? 327 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: He said, well, maybe it's not better, it's just more 328 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: of it. And he said, in the sand Hills in Nebraska. Well, 329 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: needless to say, Bill was in, let's go see it. 330 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's go see it. So yeah, Ben and 331 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: Scotty and I uh all went up there to get 332 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: our first look at what would become sand Hills Golf Club. 333 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: We flew up and we could tell from North Platte. 334 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: We kind of cast our eyes up to the north 335 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: and the ny look at these dunes or dunes everywhere. 336 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: And so he took us up in this helicopter and 337 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: it was the damnedest site the rest of the day. 338 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: And looking at all this property, we're going, oh my god, 339 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: it's so vast. We had no idea, and Dick wanted 340 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: us to go up north, which was gotten forty five 341 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: miles up north of North Platte. And we're seeing great 342 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: ground wherever we look. So we couldn't figure that out, 343 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: but we had never seen anything like it. Man, the 344 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: everywhere you looked, you just felt like, this is just incredible. 345 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: It's incredible while on Earth is it's not become a 346 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: golf mecca. It wasn't exactly love at first sight for 347 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: all of Team Corn Crunshaw Scotty went with us up 348 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: there to meet Dick Young's capt to look at this 349 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: site where Scotty got they had a banan and admittedly, 350 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: as Ben said, there's a helicopter there. So Ben and 351 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: I'm getting this helicopter. Now we're flying all over. We're 352 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: not talking about a mile or two, We're talking many miles, 353 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: looking at all these different dunes. And we had the 354 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: land and then we'd get out. Dick Younger is in 355 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: the vand with Scotty in the back, and they're trying 356 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: to keep up with us in the helicopter. And so 357 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: about seven of us get back in this suburban and 358 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: Ben and Bill flow off and helicopter and we spent 359 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: the next six hours chasing Ben and Hell and the 360 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: helicopter going all over Nebraska, it seemed like. And in 361 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: the meantime, the picnic basket was in the back of 362 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: the van with me and about five flies had gotten 363 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: into the van, and I'm just thinking, boy, this day 364 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: has got to get over with pretty quick. You've been there, excited, 365 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: We're looking at all these dudes. Poor Scotti is trying 366 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: not to get sick in the back of the car, 367 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: going around, up and down over the field. So his 368 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: impressions when you talk to him of the introduction of 369 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: the sandyals would be quite different than ours. I'll never 370 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: forget if those are the big biggest menus flies have 371 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: ever say, poor Scotti, the best was yet to come. 372 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: I tormented Scotty. I said, look, Scotty said, we'll do 373 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: We'll do this for nothing. It just Scott He said, 374 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: oh no, we can't do that. Phil, Bill what we got? 375 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: Bill and I got there. Our minds started turnings And 376 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: how are we going to make this work where people 377 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: can think we're crazy going all the way up from 378 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: North plattet Is, Why isn't it closer to civilization? All 379 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: these questions. So Young's cap had his answer to who 380 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: was going to build the golf course, but the time 381 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: he had to raise the money to pay for both 382 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: the land and the golf had an expiration date. Meanwhile, 383 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: Mike Kaiser recycled greeting cards in Chicago was on a 384 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: similar path to remote, sand based minimalism. Kaiser had built 385 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: The Dunes Club, a nine whole private but non pretentious 386 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: hang in New Buffalo, Michigan, and he had found a 387 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: stretch of course choked dunes along the southwest coast of Oregon. 388 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: So around Witton from Golf that just said, Mike could 389 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: bet on mind, I'm gonna introduce you to Dick young 390 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Scale because I like what you've done here at the 391 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: Dunes Club, which is built down sand, and I've got 392 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: this guy who's got this great site and you should 393 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: talk to him. So I ended up talking to Dick 394 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: youngs cap and I remember if he called me, which 395 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: I think is the case, And Dick said, I need 396 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: a money guy, And I said, you know, I've already 397 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: bought land and abandoned and I'm trying to assemble the 398 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: money and the courage to build out there. And you've 399 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: got this remote site and mullet in Nebraska, and you 400 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: want me to double down with two highly spectative ventures. 401 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I know. You're gonna buy the land, 402 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: and I'll be part of your partnership that is buying 403 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: the land. But you've got to find someone to help 404 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: you pay for sand Hills. Jim Simmons was that guy. 405 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: Young's Cap was originally allocated one thousand acres along the 406 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,239 Speaker 1: Dismal River. Simmons would take the other seven thousand one 407 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: acres for ranching. But the fundraising didn't stop at the land. 408 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: Fresh off the success of the plantation course, Mark Rolfing 409 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: was back in the mix, and they kept saying to me, 410 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: we'd like to get you involved, and I, I I just 411 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: really had no interest. I thought it was one of 412 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: the stupidest ideas I'd ever heard of, a private club 413 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of Nebraska. Dick is a single minded individualist. 414 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they don't make any more people like 415 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: Dick Young's Cap. He he possesses very strong opinions. He 416 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: knows what he wants. He's an architect. He's a building 417 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: architect by trade, so he has some semblance of building 418 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: things and he has his opinions. But I cannot tell 419 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: you what a gift that he gave us in the 420 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,959 Speaker 1: opportunity to do something that had never been tried. Really it, 421 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean they were most remote location that anybody could 422 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: ever think of. Uh, But in a way. I felt 423 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: a little obligated Matt, I think, and and finally I 424 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: let him talk me into going up there. One day, 425 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: we flew up from Austin, Texas, three of us being 426 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: Ben a Bill, and looked at the property. And I'll 427 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: never forget walking out there with young Scap and three 428 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: or four other guys and and looking at this thing. 429 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: And Ben was saying, can't you just see you know, 430 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: these whole look at how these holds are just gonna late. 431 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't see anything. I looked in every direction, and 432 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: all I kept saying was where's the hotel? Gore to go? 433 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: You know what? Okay? How about the condos? Where are 434 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: we gonna build the condos? And as we started talking 435 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: more and more I realized that that was not what 436 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: they had in mind at all, And then I thought, 437 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: what am I doing here? Very early on, you've become 438 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: aware that the site is so good that if you 439 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: don't produce one of the world's outstanding goth courses, you failed. 440 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: It said simple, Uh, you know, the there's some sites 441 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: you get that are you know, you don't have to 442 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: do very much too to make them far far better 443 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: than what you expect. But the sand hills. Um, there 444 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: was great potential there to go the wrong way, and 445 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: we knew it. And and that was mostly tied into 446 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: what you said, the fact that you could build the hope, 447 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: you could go in so many directions. At first glance, 448 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: or even after being answered for days and days, you 449 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: you begin to think you can go in any direction 450 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: until you launch off and start walking through those dudes 451 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: and realizing what you think is pretty calm grounds, suddenly 452 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: you just disappear, I mean in in huge valleys and 453 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: holes and big ridges, and uh so it's it's not 454 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: like you just could go in any direction. But she 455 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: certainly had huge numbers of options. Um, I have to say. 456 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: The one and the one thing that's kind of I 457 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: don't know, kind of gotten me a few times is 458 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: I've heard people say, oh, you could build holes anywhere. 459 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: You didn't matter where you put them, you could just 460 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: you just build them anywhere. It would be just as good. Um, 461 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's the case, man, I'll never get 462 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: Ben and I went up to the public course in 463 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: Mulling about ten miles to the to the north that day, 464 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: and we went up there to meet some of the 465 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: local folks and saw the sign when we went in, 466 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: it was great. It said nine holes five dollars, a 467 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: nine whole course, nine holes five dollars, eighteen holes three dollars. 468 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: So I asked the kid in the shop, I said, 469 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: how can it be cheaper to play eighteen holes? Uh? 470 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: The nine holes and he said, we're trying to encourage play, 471 00:30:54,120 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: and that's fabulous. Um, I fell in love with I 472 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: fell in love with sand Hills that day, and uh, 473 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: it's just done marble. And when I saw the budget, 474 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: but what I realized what we were gonna do was 475 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: build a golf course and a clubhouse at sand Hills 476 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: for less money than we spent on the cart paths, 477 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: just the cart paths at the plantation course. I said, wow, 478 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: how can I turn this down? So it was really 479 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: an amazing project. The deal gets done, there's going to 480 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: be golf in Mullen. But it meant a lot to 481 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: Young's cap that this was well received by the locals. 482 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: Here's more from Core. The coal trains, I mean, I 483 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: can't hundreds of cards I think on the coal trains 484 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: that are probably come from Wylming back towards Chicago and 485 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: they go through right through Holland, Nebraska, and I was. 486 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: I was seeing there waiting. One day, it just stopped 487 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: waiting as the train just eached by. It seemed knowing 488 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: it was going to be a long long time. And 489 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: I saw a fellow in the pickup truck behind me, 490 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: and he got out of his truck and he walked 491 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: up next to the truck I was in. He just 492 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: kind of looked at me and smiles, and you must 493 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: be one of the golf course fellas. And I said, 494 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: yesterday I am. He said, well, I reckon, you'll be 495 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: building something out there. It looks like what we see 496 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: on television with water, green grass and trees. I said, no, sir, 497 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: and I don't think you'll see any water. I don't 498 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: think you'll see a tree unless it just happens to 499 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: be a volunteer that's there. And I don't think you'll 500 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: see very much green grass. And said it'll be green 501 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: of a shade, but more like olifor you know, green, 502 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: than than bright green. I said, it's just not the 503 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: way we would envision something happening out here in these dunes. 504 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: And he goes, no, no trees there, no water, no trees, 505 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: no bright green. No right. I like that. I like 506 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: that and he turned around, he went back and got 507 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: in this truck. That was probably my first time of thinking, 508 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, this place is so special, but we really 509 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: need to do something or not just for golf, but 510 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: something that, um, if at all possible, will make these 511 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: these folks proud that it's there. In order to share 512 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: his vision with the locals, Young's cap, whose brother in 513 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: law was a rancher in the area, went as far 514 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: as putting pictures, of course is like Royal County down 515 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: of Northern Ireland in storefront windows throughout Mullen that these 516 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: people thought we were came from Mars or something. You 517 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: gonna do what out here? You know, it's basically cattle 518 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: grazing and they're very into dependent, the very proud of 519 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: the way that they live and they work. But gently, 520 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: you know, through Dick Youngs Cap and his his relatives, 521 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, had to talk to the local people and say, 522 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: look there, these people are okay, don't you know it's 523 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: gonna work out fine. We were gently sort of embraced, 524 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: but man, uh, they mean so much to us because 525 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: they brought us in they didn't have to, and who 526 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: doesn't love a story about pink flags and the prairie. 527 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: I was by myself walking out in the dunes on 528 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: the right on what is now the tenth fairway at 529 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: Sandy It's Golf Club. But I was just walking my 530 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: blue jeans and boots and and uh. I had a 531 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: bundle of the surveyors flags and they were bright, few 532 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: ship pink, and so I could see them well. And 533 00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: if I found a certain situation for what the out, 534 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: like an interesting green site or a tea site, followed 535 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: by a landing here in the green site. Just I 536 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: was just flagging, and I'm making little notations on a 537 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: piece of paper I head. But so I'm standing there 538 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: with a bouquet of bright and up over the dune 539 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: ridge from the valley comes a herd of cattle. I 540 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 1: I don't know how many. I didn't try to count them, 541 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: but there was There had to have been at least 542 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty or two hundred head of cattle 543 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: coming right up over the dune ridge where I was, 544 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: and they rode up. First of all, I'm staying there, 545 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: the cattle coming completely surround me. I am just I'm 546 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: like the whole in the doughnut cattle. And they slowly 547 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: weaves through the cattle and come up to me. And 548 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: one guy looks at me, Yes, what are you doing? 549 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: I said, Well, to tell you the truth, I'm looking 550 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: for golf holds math the guys like a scene out 551 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: of the movie. This guy leans over in his saddle. 552 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 1: He looks at me, he looks at the pink flags, 553 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: he looks back at his three um companions there, and 554 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: he just he says, man's looking for gossholes. They all 555 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: kind of looked at me like I'm just some lunatic, 556 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: of course, and he goes, well, good luck to you, fellow, 557 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: and off they go. IM not sure how much luck 558 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: cor neated, but believe it or not, he needed more land. 559 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: Here we are, we're right here on thousand acres man, 560 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: and we lay out the golf course. We think we're 561 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: pretty happy that one day Ben I both to go 562 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: out there and we started looking just a little a 563 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: little further out, and we didn't know quite where the 564 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: thousand acre boundary was. But we go out there and 565 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: the board. You know, that looks pretty good over there. 566 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: Let's let's walk over there and see what that could 567 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: look like. We got over there, Yeah, that looks pretty 568 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: nice to go over here. And then you could go, 569 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: and he ended up being a kind of not really triangle, 570 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: but kind of an odd shaped piece back there, and 571 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: we just immediately changed the routing and put our holes 572 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: out there, and obviously we weren't doing any construction. But 573 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: Dick comes out probably the next day, and he comes 574 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: out and we say, Dick, we're gonna we want to 575 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: go out here and here, and he just stays there 576 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: and he goes, that's not on our ground. That's on 577 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: the ground that it gave to Jim sims BET's not 578 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: on that. He basically said, how on earth can you 579 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: not get eighteen holes a thousand figures ground. Young's cap 580 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: got that land core and Crenshaw got the ultimate routing. 581 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: Mike Kaiser got a low score. I had certainly been 582 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: invited many times, and I did not go because I 583 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: was going to Man and was trying to figure out 584 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: what to do with that. So I didn't see sand 585 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,479 Speaker 1: Hills until I went there with three friends to play 586 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: in an augual round and basically a preview round. The 587 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: course was probably putting it six down the step meter, 588 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: so it was really new. And little did I know 589 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: until that day that slow greens are a lot easier 590 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: to put and man, you know this than greens that 591 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: are primed and go in twelve. So I actually shot 592 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: a seventy three, my all time best score. And that's 593 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: my first and lasting impression of sand hills was that's 594 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: where I shouted seventy three and this totally natural sand 595 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: sand hills in Nebraska. And that was also Kaiser's first 596 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: impression of corn Crunchhaw. Boy, did they do a masterful 597 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: job inasmuch as they didn't seem to have touched anything. 598 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: You know, you've heard that they found a hundred holes 599 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: and had trouble going down to eight running it down 600 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: to eighteen. Um, what I didn't know, and that was 601 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: their plan, is they didn't move much sand. It was 602 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: obvious to my force them, we're all avid and knowledgeable golfers, 603 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: that this was a defined minimalism. As for Crenshaw, he 604 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: offers more credit to Core for the routing. He has 605 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: a way of doing it that's entirely natural. You know, 606 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: he once said, he said, you know, if you if 607 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: you're if you're an animal, and you just follow the 608 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: way that they make these trails, and yeah, it's maybe 609 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the path of least resistance as you go around and 610 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: if you go by the idea of so if you're 611 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: just kind of having a walk about about a piece 612 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: of property, he has a way of doing that that 613 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: that it fits. And and you know, Matt, one of 614 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: the hardest things that we had to do there is 615 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: actually put the directions of the holes and where they went, 616 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: what sequence, um, because it was dawning, because when we 617 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: knew we never get a piece of property like that. Again, 618 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: I remember when the when the golf course was just 619 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: about to open and Ben and I went out to 620 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: play and we were on the uh we were we 621 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: were just near the sixteenth green, uh and just the 622 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: two of us, and I remember asking Ben, Ben, would 623 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: you change anything? Do you think we missed anything? Do 624 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 1: you think what do you think? Yeah, he said, Bill, 625 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: I wouldn't change it. I think it's good. I like it. 626 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: I like it. And we're talking about exactly where you 627 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: were there, mad the flow, the sequence, the variety of 628 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: the holes, the way they fit on the on the 629 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: landforms um. And that was without question our biggest figure 630 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: going into it. And even to this day, Man, I've 631 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 1: spent so much time out there and both in those 632 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: early years and and walking those dunes in the sight 633 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: and I have yet to walk out there and go, Wow, 634 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: we should have gone over there, We should have done that, 635 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: We could have, but I it's just I just haven't 636 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: second guessed it. And for me, and particularly on that side, 637 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: to say that, it's pretty big. For some final reflections, 638 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: here's Mike Kaiser what I would say about Dick young 639 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: scap whose sort of publicity shy oddly because he's not 640 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: a shy man. He had the courage of his convictions. 641 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: He saw this land in Mullen, Nebraska and said, I 642 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: see a golf courpare and so it all the way 643 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: through and you know, to this day when you're out there, 644 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: you scratch your head and said, who was the brave 645 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: man who decided to put it all together in sand Hills, 646 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: especially given his background. He'd already done one with Pete 647 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: Die and Lincoln and could easily have rested on his 648 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: laurels because that was a very well regarded golf course. 649 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,479 Speaker 1: But no, he found this land in Nebraska just desided later, 650 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: just as I found land and abandoned and decided to 651 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: repurpose himself as the builder of remote golf courses in 652 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. Avoid did it work out? Man 653 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: Mark crowing on why Core and Crunchhall have become so successful. 654 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: If you traded voices between Dick Young's Cap and Mike Kaiser, 655 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 1: they could almost be the same person in a lot 656 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: of ways too. They remind me a lot of each other. 657 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: And you know, that's that's the kind of people that 658 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: that Ben and Bill are attracted to, no nonsense people. 659 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think when you're not taking jobs on the 660 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: fly and high risk jobs and you know, trying to 661 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, do things that the environment may not dictate there, 662 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 1: you're never gonna be as successful as they've been. Because 663 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: they went to the right places, they were very selected, 664 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: they worked hard at it, and they deserved everything that 665 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: they've gotten out of it. In Part one, for Ben Crenshaw, 666 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: finding Bill Core was about fate at sand Hills. They 667 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: both needed a little faith. You had these people who 668 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: in the you know, in the personage of Dick Young's Cap, 669 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: who wanted to do this thing and and it was 670 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, you talk about a bold leap uh putting 671 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: it out there somewhere where we we we all had 672 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: just hoped that people would come to see it and 673 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: enjoyment and enjoy it because it was something different, but 674 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: the land was so blessed that we just didn't you know, 675 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: we didn't build so much there. We just followed nature there. 676 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: Here's Scotty says on what sand Hills meant for. And 677 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: after that, the opportunities for our company exploded. I mean, 678 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: the phone was running all the time, and we had 679 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: more and more great opportunities to build courses. And I 680 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: don't want to pick on any courses to say that 681 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: they were better than others, because there was a period 682 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: where we did Old Sandwich, we did Hidden Creek, we 683 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 1: did Austin Golf Club, we did East Hampton Golf Club, 684 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: but we did Friar's Head And so there's landmark number three. 685 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: And that's another course that immediately brought us UH a 686 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: lot of attention because of the spectacular nature of it 687 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: um and the fact that it was it sat on 688 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: Long Island where a lot of people could take a 689 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: look at it. The fourth big one for the company 690 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: is abandoned UM. Getting a chance to work for Mike 691 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: Kaizer Uh certainly changed our world, and Mike has been 692 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: so good to us over the years. It's been, as 693 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, Matt, We've had a chance to be abandoned 694 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: trails we did, the preserve, we did Cabot. Mike was 695 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: a part of Lost Farm down in Tasmania Sand Valley, 696 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: and now we've got the Sheep Ranch coming along, so 697 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 1: you know, that relationship was kind of the fourth landmark. 698 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: And then I'd say the fifth was Pinehurst Crenshaw. Again 699 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: under collection of work. Well, I mean, we're not prolific, 700 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,280 Speaker 1: will never be prolific, but I don't think that people 701 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: some people have had some of the best experiences that 702 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: we've had working with people and in certain environments. And 703 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: finally I asked Bill Core if he thought they could 704 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: have ever achieved such a deep portfolio without sand Hills. No, No, 705 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say no and equivocally, but I would say 706 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: it would be extraordinarily unlikely that we could have the Sandhills. Um, 707 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: it was such a special site that Dick gave us, 708 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,760 Speaker 1: and he gave us the freedom to work with that site. 709 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,279 Speaker 1: And yeah, Matt, we didn't know. We didn't know. I 710 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: get asked sometimes people say, oh, gee, did you know 711 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: this was going to be a watershed event in golf architecture. No, 712 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: we didn't know that. We didn't know. We never talked 713 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: about it, never thought about it. All we thought about 714 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: is how can we make the most of this site 715 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: and this opportunity we've been given. But once it came 716 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: online and it seemed to struck a chord, so to speak, 717 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: with with the golfing world. And and of course part 718 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: of that was because it was so different than what 719 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: was prevalent at the time, but it was it's it 720 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: just became the cornerstone of people being aware that we 721 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: are one in this business, but two that we have 722 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: an affinity for this type of ground. Do you guys 723 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: have a favorite fire pit that you've stumbled upon or 724 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: use on a regular basis? You know, I have a 725 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: My favorite happens to be in our backyard. Uh. That 726 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,879 Speaker 1: was the best. You know, and I both traveled so much, 727 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: well I'm not right now obviously, but generally so much. 728 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: And yeah, there's a fireplace in the in the back 729 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: and that we that that we like to go, uh 730 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: to hang out in the in the evenings. But beyond that, um, 731 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty darn hard to beat the one at vand 732 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, the one out there with the crackling fire 733 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: at night and the people around and telling their golf 734 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,839 Speaker 1: stories and the you know, their adventures of the day. Yeah, 735 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: i'd have to second that. That fire pit there, it's 736 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: great to see you know the but once again, the 737 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: pleasure and you've got abandoned is it's just so ideal 738 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: for a fosome or two forsoms to get together to 739 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: play and you know, it's chilling at night, and that 740 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: fireplace really feels good and it h it does make 741 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: all the golfers conjure up memories of the day. It's 742 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 1: it's it's uh, the very convivial. It's the way you 743 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,879 Speaker 1: end today and you look forward to the next one. 744 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 1: But I agree, I agree that's a good one. And 745 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: I would again, uh embellished just briefly on what Benn 746 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: and said. We've been so fortunate to work with so 747 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:01,879 Speaker 1: many wonderful clients, wonderful people, gifted sites. We've gotten far 748 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: more than our fair share to work with, and we're 749 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,720 Speaker 1: just very grateful. But I have to say we're grateful 750 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 1: for the time we've spent with you too. I know that, 751 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: I know, I can't believe. I'm so glad I got 752 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: this on record, Bill exactly right. We were. We We've 753 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: enjoyed our time with you. It's great to see you 754 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,800 Speaker 1: great to talk golf with you. You thank you again, gentlemen. 755 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,320 Speaker 1: I you know this is this has been a treat 756 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: and a pleasure. For God's sakes, Stay safe out there. 757 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,720 Speaker 1: We need you guys to keep doing what you're doing 758 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: and and look forward to seeing you out there in 759 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,879 Speaker 1: the dirt somewhere someday soon. And uh yeah, likewise, well 760 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: help everybody safe, including you and your family. Are you 761 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: looking for good value on great golf apparel as a 762 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 1: listener to this part cast, my friends John Ashworth and 763 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,240 Speaker 1: Jeff Cunningham at Link Soul in Oceanside, California are offering 764 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 1: you a discount on all future orders of what I 765 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,640 Speaker 1: Wear all day, every day, on and off the course. 766 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: Whenever you go to link soul dot com, just use 767 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: promo code matty G M A T T Y G. 768 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the fire Pit. It's produced 769 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 1: by Alex up Peggy. It's edited by Rex Lint. The 770 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,760 Speaker 1: theme song is by Joe Horowitz. Please rate and review 771 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,719 Speaker 1: this podcast on Apple Podcasts and we might track you 772 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 1: down and send you one of our new Imperial Road Pats. 773 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 1: Got a question, comment, or a story for us to 774 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: track down, You can find me on Twitter at Matt 775 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: Genella or on Instagram at Matt underscore Genolah and if 776 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: you haven't already done so, please subscribe to the fire 777 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: Pit on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen 778 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,800 Speaker 1: to a story like this one. You can also subscribe 779 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: to right