Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys Select Elliott and now your host Dane Brugler. David
Speaker 1: Hellman and Brian brought us. Well, we welcome you to
Speaker 1: radio row here at the two thousand and seventeen NFL Combine.
Speaker 1: It is the Draft Show. Brian brought us from Dallascowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com, joined by David Hellman Dallas Cowboys dot Com,
Speaker 1: and then Dane Brugler from CBS Sports dot Com. Gentlemen,
Speaker 1: welcome to Indianapolis. Yeah, thanks for having me. You ready
Speaker 1: to roll? I've been ready to roll? What way? We've
Speaker 1: been here for almost two days already, Yeah, kind of
Speaker 1: getting the sights and sounds, Yeah, getting the lay of
Speaker 1: the land, getting everything figured out here. It's it's been
Speaker 1: an interesting combine for us already because of the new
Speaker 1: setup here, and we used to be at the stadium
Speaker 1: at Lucas Oil. We used to have a radio row
Speaker 1: right out in front of the club area. We're now
Speaker 1: in the convention center across the street. Dane, it is
Speaker 1: a different setup. We've now got the podiums around us
Speaker 1: here with all the different groups, the teams, NFL network,
Speaker 1: all the all the all the bells and whistles you
Speaker 1: would want in a big time production. It's a circus.
Speaker 1: There's a circus. There's a lot going on, and you know,
Speaker 1: I get it. There's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: attention for an event like this, and so you know,
Speaker 1: it's over a thousand credential media here, a lot of radio,
Speaker 1: a lot of TV, a lot of videos. So they
Speaker 1: need space. But it's not the best setup for you know, everyone.
Speaker 1: They get there what they need done. It'll be interesting
Speaker 1: next few days when they start to bring players in,
Speaker 1: get all those interviews done. It should be an interesting
Speaker 1: few days here at the new setup at the Combine.
Speaker 1: I've always believed, guys, this is about really the teams,
Speaker 1: and we've we've seemed to make it about ourselves about
Speaker 1: the teams. It should be about the teams. It should
Speaker 1: be about the teams. But that's that's great though, you know,
Speaker 1: it's nice from the fans and the media do get
Speaker 1: to be involved. You know, we'll have something here. This
Speaker 1: will be a first for me covering the Combine and
Speaker 1: being a part of the comment since nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 1: The fans will actually be in the weight area though,
Speaker 1: where they're lifting on the other side as you look
Speaker 1: at the screen, which would be to our right, to
Speaker 1: your left on the other side of this curtent over here,
Speaker 1: they'll have the actual where the fans can participate and
Speaker 1: watch the bench press the two twenty five. So they
Speaker 1: have a lot of interactive stuff here. They've got a
Speaker 1: lot all the set up. On the other side, they've
Speaker 1: got the bench press. I never believe that this would
Speaker 1: ever be on TV, but lo and behold, it is
Speaker 1: now on TV. So we'll get a chance and the
Speaker 1: first groups we have out and the first group won't
Speaker 1: get to work now. The first groups will be offense
Speaker 1: and defensive linemen and then the running backs. They will
Speaker 1: not be on the field until Friday. So if you're
Speaker 1: looking for something Friday, uh, you know, uh, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna that That's that will be the time you'll look
Speaker 1: for something. Thursday. You'll have interviews like like Dane said,
Speaker 1: David said, all these podiums around will have the players on.
Speaker 1: We'll get the opportunity, can't garrison. We're filming a lot
Speaker 1: of this. We'll be able to bring a lot of it,
Speaker 1: uh to you. So you're gonna make sure you follow,
Speaker 1: you know, at the draft Show and DP Burglar and
Speaker 1: then David Hellman Hellman DC, Right, that's the line, I
Speaker 1: get it right that time. But so a lot of
Speaker 1: things going on, and I just want to kind of
Speaker 1: talk about really what we're gonna do and a couple
Speaker 1: of things too. CALIBERO Collision and Tommy John. We want
Speaker 1: to thank them two of our sponsors that are part
Speaker 1: of the Draft Show, part of bringing us here, and
Speaker 1: we appreciate that. Uh. I want to get into some
Speaker 1: things today, UH with uh with in regard are too
Speaker 1: some I don't know if these are true or false
Speaker 1: from the combine, but just have some questions for you
Speaker 1: guys that I would like to to maybe address. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do Twitter on the twenty. Make sure you get
Speaker 1: your questions into David Hellman at the Draft Show. You
Speaker 1: should be following the Draft Show because you can pick
Speaker 1: it up on Periscope all that you know, Happy to
Speaker 1: have you, happy to have the show for you, live there.
Speaker 1: But we get your questions on Twitter on the twenty
Speaker 1: and then Dane Burglar came up with a list of
Speaker 1: sixty players that he's looking at for the Combine. Guys
Speaker 1: that have the most to gain, Guys that have the
Speaker 1: most to lose. I've got my idea of some guys too.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that. That'll be in the last part
Speaker 1: of the show. We can't take phone calls here, so
Speaker 1: sorry about that, but we can sure interact with you
Speaker 1: on that anyway. Well, sometimes the show just goes so
Speaker 1: fast that you can't do that. But you know, when
Speaker 1: we get back to the Star we'll do that. So
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, guys though, something just about
Speaker 1: the combine and what you might think and and it's
Speaker 1: has to do love with guys working on, guys not
Speaker 1: working out. And I don't know if it's true or
Speaker 1: false or however you want to say it, but just
Speaker 1: going into this guy like Corey Davis Wide Receiver. When
Speaker 1: you got two guys, two sets of guys working out
Speaker 1: Wide Receiver, Corey Davis and Mike Williams, one of them
Speaker 1: working out, one of them not working out, talk about that.
Speaker 1: Does Corey Davis lose some ground here in this workout
Speaker 1: when you know with the fact that you have guys
Speaker 1: that are working out. And we can also talk about
Speaker 1: it too a little bit with Jamal Adams and the
Speaker 1: Malik Hooker. You know, we were talking about high guys
Speaker 1: in this draft that somebody might mean it is one
Speaker 1: set of guy. One guy working out and the other
Speaker 1: one not. Does that affect Maybe putting one over the
Speaker 1: other from just the combot could, And I think it
Speaker 1: depends on how that other player works out. You look
Speaker 1: at Mike Williams. If he goes out, runs a four
Speaker 1: or five two and performs well in the other drills,
Speaker 1: I think he helps himself. And you know, Corey Davis
Speaker 1: doesn't have a chance to answer. Now he might at
Speaker 1: the Pro Day, but for now, Mike Williams gets a
Speaker 1: little bit, get a little bit of a leg up.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, And that's what I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, because I don't think so. Maybe the Hooker
Speaker 1: one's interesting because Hooker, I mean, pro Day is probably
Speaker 1: not a good bet either, right can depending on how
Speaker 1: much time. Ever he has said that he's healing quicker
Speaker 1: than expected, but it's still that's that would be a
Speaker 1: lot to ask. Now you know he's coming off not
Speaker 1: only the labor but the hernia. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it'd be a tough thing to do
Speaker 1: to come back and work out before the draft. In
Speaker 1: the case of a Hooker or a McKinley where they
Speaker 1: might not work out at all before they're drafted. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that's not good. Now we get the oppression
Speaker 1: that McKinley is going to try and work out, I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be here and working out at the combine.
Speaker 1: He's gonna have surgery and Mark, Yeah, so you're gonna get,
Speaker 1: You're gonna get. He's gonna he's gonna work out, and
Speaker 1: that might be the only opportunity, like you said, and
Speaker 1: my my main point being is if you have a
Speaker 1: chance to work out, whether it's okay and that like
Speaker 1: that's unusual to do the combine and then have the surgery. Right,
Speaker 1: if you have a chance to work out, I don't
Speaker 1: think it matters. So Corey Davis, he's going to have
Speaker 1: his pro day. And that's even guys who work out
Speaker 1: here who are bad, don't we always say, like, well,
Speaker 1: he'll have a chance to make up for it at
Speaker 1: the pro day. He was slower than he wanted to be.
Speaker 1: He can run his bench was bad, he can do
Speaker 1: it again at the pro day. If you get one chance,
Speaker 1: if you have a chance to work out, I don't
Speaker 1: think it really matters. But to what you just said
Speaker 1: he only has one chance. So you know, if Mike
Speaker 1: Williams runs a four or five eight here, that helps
Speaker 1: Corey Davis a little bit. But then Mike Williams has
Speaker 1: a chance to improve run better at the clumsy well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then and that's the other point is pro days,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're weight a little differently depending on
Speaker 1: team to teams, scout to scouts, you know, tur for grass,
Speaker 1: what's the weather, what's going on as an indoor outdoor,
Speaker 1: So the pro days are a little different here. And
Speaker 1: that's why I really enjoyed the combine because everything's done
Speaker 1: on the same field. You know, you don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with any conditions. It's it's same for everybody. So
Speaker 1: for a situation like Corey Davis and Mike Williams could
Speaker 1: end up being a blessing in disguise for Corey Davis.
Speaker 1: Mike Williams goes out there and runs a four or
Speaker 1: five eight, four to six one and doesn't really perform
Speaker 1: as expected, could end up working out in Corey Davis's
Speaker 1: favor and he goes his pro day and does well.
Speaker 1: But on the flip side, Mike Williams could run well
Speaker 1: here and Corey Davis. Maybe he just has an off
Speaker 1: day and the pro day, you know, doesn't run as well.
Speaker 1: So the time that the scouts were working off of
Speaker 1: for Mike Williams this spring and actually from the spring
Speaker 1: and then into the fall was a four four zero.
Speaker 1: That's not having him, I mean, and I mean he
Speaker 1: doesn't look like a four four athlete to you, does he? No?
Speaker 1: And I was just curious about that, though, mean, but
Speaker 1: you think he's more in the four five range? You think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think a four or five two is kind of
Speaker 1: what the athlete I see. I don't, you know, you
Speaker 1: watch him on tape, you don't see him, you know,
Speaker 1: creating that separation vertically. He's just not that type of athlete.
Speaker 1: He's a good athlete, right, not saying he's not. I
Speaker 1: just think he's more of a low four fives guy.
Speaker 1: But you know, the guy like Laquon Treadwell last year, right,
Speaker 1: more in the high four or fives and similar type
Speaker 1: of deal. We didn't really expect him to run a
Speaker 1: four four. Does a guy that didn't show a lot
Speaker 1: of separation on tape still a good athlete, yeah, but
Speaker 1: didn't really have the four yard dash? You expected, So
Speaker 1: Mike Williams would be really interesting to see what he runs.
Speaker 1: If Mike Williams comes out there and does run less,
Speaker 1: if he does get in the fourth, say he runs
Speaker 1: the same time that Corey, that Corey Davis would run
Speaker 1: that they were working on four four eight? I mean,
Speaker 1: is that is that one of those things? Does that
Speaker 1: maybe make you flip your mind a little bit about him?
Speaker 1: Not me personally, Mike Williams is my top receiver anyway, right,
Speaker 1: so you know, if you were a team though, if
Speaker 1: you're a team, if your team Brian brought us that,
Speaker 1: like Corey Davis better, I would hate to change my
Speaker 1: grade on a player based on a four or five
Speaker 1: two to a four or five. You know, and trust
Speaker 1: the tape, you know, And that's a great name for
Speaker 1: a podcast. Yeah, but would it make you feel different
Speaker 1: about the player? Not really. I don't know. If you
Speaker 1: ran a four four zero, then I'm going back to
Speaker 1: the tape and figuring out, Okay, what am I? What
Speaker 1: am I missing here? Yeah? Because he doesn't look like
Speaker 1: a four for oh athlete, But in the combine in
Speaker 1: the Pro day, just for like confirming things that I
Speaker 1: think the fact when kids run out here and run fast.
Speaker 1: I think that I think scouts leave this place with
Speaker 1: a different feeling about them, hopefully not drastically different than
Speaker 1: what they already had. We've seen that. I think like
Speaker 1: a Will Fuller last year, sure goes out runs the
Speaker 1: fourth three two, but that was expected. That's his game.
Speaker 1: He's a vertical athlete. I just want to guess I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say this with a combine itself and when
Speaker 1: people and I'm not just talking about the receivers. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about when anybody tests well. And you're right, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's it's the history is littered with with the Mike
Speaker 1: Mamulas of the world and guys like that that have
Speaker 1: been drafted on the on the the measurables from the combine.
Speaker 1: But I think what I'm trying to my question with
Speaker 1: you guys though, is you know Will Will Will there
Speaker 1: be an advantage? Will there be an advantage for And
Speaker 1: we could talk about these things because these two safeties
Speaker 1: could be taken. They could be taken, and I think
Speaker 1: back to back, whichever you whichever way you want to go,
Speaker 1: I think that is a better that's a better one
Speaker 1: for me, because like I said, I mean, we might
Speaker 1: not see Hooker workout before he gets drafted, which in
Speaker 1: that case, I would give Jamal out. To talk about
Speaker 1: the importance of the workout, I would give Jamal Adams
Speaker 1: the edge because he's gonna have opportunities to show what
Speaker 1: he can do and prove all that stuff. In the
Speaker 1: case where we expect Corey Davis and Mike Williams to
Speaker 1: both work at some point, then I think it's a wash.
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, sure, maybe you way to combine
Speaker 1: a little more heavily than the pro day, but you're
Speaker 1: still getting a chance to see what they can do
Speaker 1: in these drills. And I don't think there's a right
Speaker 1: or wrong. Uh, you know, I I see I disagree
Speaker 1: with you on the safety. You know, I don't care
Speaker 1: if Lee Cooker works out or not. Well, I know
Speaker 1: you like Yeah, I still like him better than fall Out,
Speaker 1: you know, so, but that might not be true. You know, team,
Speaker 1: the team, they might feel so coming into this combine
Speaker 1: again and we're about to tape. Don't don't get us wrong,
Speaker 1: We're about to take of course. But if but if
Speaker 1: one of those guys does go out there and do something,
Speaker 1: then they get your team. I mean, that's something to
Speaker 1: be buzzing into this room. It's an opportunity, absolutely. I
Speaker 1: mean it's a chance. And so that's but you know
Speaker 1: that works both ways. You know, if he goes out
Speaker 1: and disappoints, then you know you're shooting yourself in the
Speaker 1: foot where Corey Davis isn't know at this point. So
Speaker 1: it could work both ways. But it's a chance, there's
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. Wait, I think that's interesting. I
Speaker 1: mean we're talking about you know, what if somebody blows
Speaker 1: you away, right, how heavily do you weigh somebody blowing
Speaker 1: you away at the combine or somebody like really disappointing
Speaker 1: you at the combine? I mean, oh no, that's the
Speaker 1: and and really the diary of that has written person
Speaker 1: well as well. And I think I sit here and say,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody blowing you away at the combine shouldn't
Speaker 1: change how you feel about them too much. I think
Speaker 1: it has to do with it, like somebody like the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks throwing the ball. Yeah, it's always that the worst
Speaker 1: quarterback workout of the combines. Yeah, when you're watching the
Speaker 1: combine and you're sitting at home watching this, you know,
Speaker 1: you really the whole idea is about the tape. In
Speaker 1: this group, we believe the tape part of it. The workout,
Speaker 1: I think is a big part of it as well.
Speaker 1: It's a part of the it's it's part of the evaluation.
Speaker 1: But I also think you got to kind of be
Speaker 1: a little careful about that because you bring up the
Speaker 1: point about Cam Newton and the workout, and it's something
Speaker 1: ball was all over the place, right, and you have
Speaker 1: to factor in that they're throwing the guys they've never
Speaker 1: played with before. There's chemistry. Is that hurts receivers too.
Speaker 1: By the way, you get a bad quarterback that camp
Speaker 1: tell me, I mean Dak Prescott in training camp last
Speaker 1: year and practice, how do you look not good? I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there's a big difference when you go from a
Speaker 1: practice setting to a game setting here where you're in
Speaker 1: shorts and a T shirt, you don't have pads on,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have a helmet on him. There's
Speaker 1: so many different variables here throwing here compared to you know,
Speaker 1: throwing in a game, and so you would expect that
Speaker 1: throwing against air you should be better. Just not always
Speaker 1: the case, especially when you're dealing with some chemistry issues
Speaker 1: with guys you've never worked with you before. You're you're
Speaker 1: a quarterback needy team, and you look at the combine
Speaker 1: workout and the guy doesn't throw worth a damn, you're
Speaker 1: gonna Are you gonna be a little concerned with this
Speaker 1: quarterback class? Yeah? I think I'd be more concerned than
Speaker 1: with others because there's not a guy here that I
Speaker 1: think anybody's completely sold on. What if he throws great?
Speaker 1: What if the quarterback throws great? Are you gonna go
Speaker 1: watch him work out as a school workout? Of course,
Speaker 1: it's all about if I have a chance to see
Speaker 1: it when he's quarterbacks, if he's throwing somewhere, throwing on Mars,
Speaker 1: I'm getting a ticket to go to Mars the same throw.
Speaker 1: If I have a chance to see him throw, I'm
Speaker 1: going and it for It's it's tough because you trust
Speaker 1: the tape. But at the same time, there's a reason
Speaker 1: this is all going on. This is absolutely there's so
Speaker 1: many people here, you know it matters. That's actually it's
Speaker 1: a really good point though, And it's kind of what
Speaker 1: I was trying to say a minute ago. If somebody
Speaker 1: goes out and if Deshaun Watson blows us away, this
Speaker 1: week and like great workout, amazing, Yeah, don't you kind
Speaker 1: of and you're like okay, yeah, but like it's on air,
Speaker 1: that's what you're supposed to do. Whereas scout guys get
Speaker 1: excited about that. But I think, look, he's throwing well.
Speaker 1: I think if people I think, if he has a
Speaker 1: really terrible one, I think the reaction will be much
Speaker 1: worse in the next and it would be in the post.
Speaker 1: It's all about finding out why any workout, if he's struggling, yeah,
Speaker 1: why why is he struggling? What are you struggling with?
Speaker 1: Does that translate to the tape? And there's a big
Speaker 1: thing to be said about just seeing a quarterback throw
Speaker 1: in person. A lot of these coaches that are here
Speaker 1: have never seen these quarterbacks fring person right. It is
Speaker 1: so important. How does the ball come off their hand,
Speaker 1: what's their their motion, like their efficient set up load,
Speaker 1: get the ball out. There's something to be said about
Speaker 1: just seeing that live. You can see it on tape,
Speaker 1: but seeing it live, seeing the bull explode off their hand,
Speaker 1: the velocity on the ball, the placement, there's something to
Speaker 1: be said about seeing that in person, and then the
Speaker 1: feel you get and these quarterbacks going one after the
Speaker 1: other at approach. Oh no, absolutely, it's quarterback show and
Speaker 1: they're scripted exactly here. It's one after the same. I
Speaker 1: think there's more pressure out here to throw at the
Speaker 1: combine then at their workout at school course or any
Speaker 1: any any drill. I mean, I think the pressing on
Speaker 1: your field at your college with all your buddies. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: if you could survive the combine pressure. And I'm just
Speaker 1: talking about any position, because there's some guys that that
Speaker 1: that are going to have to survive some combine pressure
Speaker 1: and and to and to make people. You know, you
Speaker 1: got the tape, but my gosh, hey this guy's from
Speaker 1: this school boy? Did he perform well? Didn't look out
Speaker 1: of place? You know? That's about the sea bole. Right
Speaker 1: before we get to before we take our first break
Speaker 1: here that I want to get into this day, we
Speaker 1: were kind of hearing some buzz uh here that the
Speaker 1: running backs cook weighing in at two hundred and ten
Speaker 1: pounds four net, two hundred thirty different thirty pound difference
Speaker 1: right there, though, crazy Any concern about the heavy running back,
Speaker 1: any concerned about coming in guys, maybe you know, being
Speaker 1: in shape, not in shape, that kind of thing, That's
Speaker 1: the bigger thing is what's the body looking like? Is
Speaker 1: it good weight? Is there some bad weight on there? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know that that's bigger than you know, because Leonard
Speaker 1: fourdet can carry two hundred forty pounds no problem, and
Speaker 1: it's still be in great shape. You know, that's just
Speaker 1: his body. That's part of what makes him a freak. Um.
Speaker 1: It will be interesting to see what he runs at
Speaker 1: two hundred forty pounds, right. If he goes out there
Speaker 1: and runs a four or five zero at that weight,
Speaker 1: that reminds me of Tyrone Wheatley doing that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that goes way back in the day, but
Speaker 1: that that young man coming down at you know, two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty two pounds and running in the four,
Speaker 1: you know, the fourth he was getting. Uh, Fournette was
Speaker 1: getting a lot of um Jamal Lewis comparisons on Twitter today, Right,
Speaker 1: Jamal Lewis is in the two forty two forty five
Speaker 1: range as a player. I mean, you know, Leonard Fournette,
Speaker 1: that's just kind of who he is. He's a two
Speaker 1: hundred forty pound back. Could he get to two thirty five? Sure?
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessary though. I don't think it
Speaker 1: diminishes him as a as a running back. That's that's
Speaker 1: a little different. That's I struggle with that because that's
Speaker 1: obviously not ideal as a running back. One of the
Speaker 1: biggest strengths you can talk about is just reliability. And
Speaker 1: with Cook, No, he wasn't hurt that much in college.
Speaker 1: But the big thing will be with the medicals which
Speaker 1: happened today. What's going on with the shoulders? Um, if
Speaker 1: you told me, okay, the next five to seven years,
Speaker 1: Dalvin Cook will average fourteen starts a year, I'd say
Speaker 1: he's the best running back to come out in the
Speaker 1: last five years. I think that much of him. I
Speaker 1: think he's so supremely talented. That's fair praise. But I struggle,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if he's gonna be able to
Speaker 1: fourteen starts a year just with that body armor, the
Speaker 1: body build, the shoulders two hundred ten pounds. And that's
Speaker 1: why wit made Zekes so special. He was so so
Speaker 1: talented at a thick to twenty five, right, I have
Speaker 1: no doubt in my mind he's gonna be able to
Speaker 1: go out there and give me sixteen games. You know,
Speaker 1: at least a high percentage of that happening with Cook.
Speaker 1: A little more doubt there with is gonna be able
Speaker 1: to hold up. You're going up against you know, twenty five,
Speaker 1: twenty six, twenty seven year old men who you know
Speaker 1: are doing this for a living, trying to earn that
Speaker 1: next contract. A little different Dalvin Cook going up against
Speaker 1: NC State and twenty year old linebackers. Where might sniff
Speaker 1: the NFL We're going to see the running backs workout
Speaker 1: Friday afternoon. That would be interesting to see what those
Speaker 1: body types. One last thing too, before we hit the break,
Speaker 1: had a chance to bump into a lot of general
Speaker 1: managers today and bumped into some coaches as well. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get into the total thing about Joe Mixon,
Speaker 1: but I will say this though, to Dane's point of
Speaker 1: what we had on a few draft shows ago about
Speaker 1: Joe Mixon being here, there's a lot of general managers
Speaker 1: that absolutely wish he was here to have the opportunity.
Speaker 1: I had a general manager actually telling me though, he goes,
Speaker 1: the problem is this used the combine used to be
Speaker 1: about the teams. Now it's about the media. It's about
Speaker 1: it's about the media's access. He goes, I'd love to
Speaker 1: have Joe Mixon here. But if I had to present
Speaker 1: Joe Mixon to you guys, he goes, that would be
Speaker 1: a problem. So but there's a lot of guys, a
Speaker 1: lot of general managers that would love the opportunity to
Speaker 1: talk to Joe Mixon. So get ready for that pro
Speaker 1: day March eighth in Norman. Yeah, there'll be the get
Speaker 1: up there absolutely from the day. Yeah, there'll be a
Speaker 1: lot of folks making the trip up to send you
Speaker 1: up to Norman. Days after you get back from I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go. I'm gonna go. Dan and I are gonna
Speaker 1: make the trip. We'll go up there and see. But
Speaker 1: it sounds like to me of the of the a
Speaker 1: I interviewed probably eight general managers and coaches, and they said,
Speaker 1: to a man, they said they would love to have
Speaker 1: the guy here to have the opportunity to talk to
Speaker 1: A matter of fact, generman says, the very first thing,
Speaker 1: the most important thing to is not the medicals, but
Speaker 1: the interviews. So keep that in mind as we're going
Speaker 1: forward here. Okay, we're gonna take our first break of
Speaker 1: the day. We'll be right back. Make sure you get
Speaker 1: everything together for Twitter on the twenty and we'll get
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Speaker 1: Showboys you're back here on the Draft Show from the
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen UH Combine NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Brian
Speaker 1: broad Us, Dain Burglar, David Hellman, Kit Garrison, executive producer,
Speaker 1: as always keeping us online, keeping us going, like to
Speaker 1: once again thank a couple of people. They're Caliber, Caliber
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Speaker 1: Caliber Collision and Tommy John both being with us here
Speaker 1: at the combine. Okay, this is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: segments because it's all about UH fan interaction. It's all
Speaker 1: the people. It's all about you the people. So Twitter
Speaker 1: and there it is. I really like when Kent does
Speaker 1: effect the sound effect thing. So yeah, Twitter on the
Speaker 1: twenty go ahead, David, what do he got? Really smart?
Speaker 1: One from Alfredo? Uh to start this one off, which
Speaker 1: is simple, whose medicals interest you the most this week?
Speaker 1: Of all the guys who are going to get looked
Speaker 1: at the most, it's gonna be hard to limited just one.
Speaker 1: I think Dalvin Cook, who we mentioned with the shoulders
Speaker 1: since I think his junior year in high school, he
Speaker 1: has had three shot older surgeries. UM, so eager does here?
Speaker 1: Dalvin Cook? M Leonard Fournette with that ankle? Uh? That
Speaker 1: forcing him as five games this year? What's going on
Speaker 1: with that ankle? And he you know you've heard the
Speaker 1: word chronic used and hopefully there's no long term effects.
Speaker 1: The most I might go John Ross and this is
Speaker 1: a player's first round wide receivers, A first round receiver Washington,
Speaker 1: a couple knees. He's gonna have a shoulder surgery in
Speaker 1: UH in March. It might be one of the fastest
Speaker 1: guys here too. Oh yeah, he's a candidate. Definitely, he'll
Speaker 1: be in the four three range. And but the durability
Speaker 1: and the past injury issues could be the difference between
Speaker 1: between him being the third receiver off the board in
Speaker 1: a first round pick and then possibly falling to day
Speaker 1: two and a lot of other receivers passing him up.
Speaker 1: So John Ross, I think he's definitely one of the ones.
Speaker 1: We'll be bullshit and finding out more about need to
Speaker 1: know about Jake, But I really do I need to
Speaker 1: figure out though, because this is a really good tied
Speaker 1: end cloud. We've said it. You know, if you're falling
Speaker 1: along in the draft show, you understand we like these
Speaker 1: tw it ends. We feel like that we can go
Speaker 1: down first, second, third, fourth, fifth round, we'll find you
Speaker 1: tied in. But Jake, Budd, I want to see really
Speaker 1: where how far along he is with this with his injury,
Speaker 1: the surgery, the rehab. Although, yeah, all that stuff. I
Speaker 1: want to figure this out though, because he might be
Speaker 1: a consideration for me. I feel like this kid without
Speaker 1: knowing him, no Michigan background, all those things, high work, character, ethic,
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I have a feeling though
Speaker 1: that he might be a guy though that if you
Speaker 1: were sitting at the bottom of the if you're sitting
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the of the of the second round,
Speaker 1: that you would maybe consider where Dallas is sitting there
Speaker 1: right at sixty, this might be an opportunity to grab
Speaker 1: a guy. I'm interested to see where his medical is,
Speaker 1: maybe waits even a third round. Yeah, well, well we'll see.
Speaker 1: It depends on It depends on really how how confident
Speaker 1: I am when I when I start doing some some
Speaker 1: research of bumping into some guys down the hallway. Good
Speaker 1: segue for a question from Uriyahu. We've talked about tightening
Speaker 1: into twenty eight before. We've covered oj Howard extensively. We
Speaker 1: have um who who And I know this is a
Speaker 1: good tight end class. But at twenty eight who else?
Speaker 1: And who would be And I know we've talked about
Speaker 1: in Joku before, who would probably be behind Howard? And
Speaker 1: it is you know, let's say it is in Joku
Speaker 1: or whatever you got, Is that a viable option at
Speaker 1: twenty eight and Juku? Sure? Yeah, yeah, we've talked about
Speaker 1: Howard edding a Joku's right there. He's gonna think he's
Speaker 1: gonna blow up this week. I think he said that
Speaker 1: before he's gonna have a good week. Here's a guy
Speaker 1: that might elevate himself. People might fall in love with
Speaker 1: the numbers, with the measurables, but then you could kind
Speaker 1: of see some things on tape with the athletic ability
Speaker 1: part of it. Right, Well, okay, it's talking about numbers,
Speaker 1: talking about athletic ability. What about our guy from Ashland.
Speaker 1: That's what I came up again. See that's where I
Speaker 1: was gonna go with this, because there's people starting to
Speaker 1: buzz a little bit and this is what happens out there.
Speaker 1: And we appreciate everybody that falls along in the draft
Speaker 1: show because we try and give you some names of
Speaker 1: guys and all of a sudden, then you're not surprised
Speaker 1: when they end up in the second round. When he
Speaker 1: starts office potentially a four to five and the next
Speaker 1: thing you know, you're talking about him at thirty two.
Speaker 1: Well that's people say that you know, draft stock and
Speaker 1: that it's not real and it's media driven. No, hole,
Speaker 1: that stuff exists. No, it's just it's the it's the
Speaker 1: media catching up with the scouts. Well in a big
Speaker 1: part of it too, with a player like this is
Speaker 1: division two. You know a guy that you said it
Speaker 1: before going up against densists and accountants, right, you know,
Speaker 1: how is that going to translate? Does it? Yeah? That
Speaker 1: is he He comes in at two seventy five or
Speaker 1: you know, in that range, and he goes out and
Speaker 1: run the four seven like his tape says that he
Speaker 1: is look out. I mean, how high can this guy go? Okay? Well,
Speaker 1: and and I guess that you know I'm I'm the
Speaker 1: black and white like bottom line guy, which so I
Speaker 1: want to know how many tight ends you think are
Speaker 1: going in the first round of this year's draft. I
Speaker 1: think it'll be too Howard and joker Joker. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: will say this though about about our our Ashland tight end.
Speaker 1: And this is to me. I talked about guys that
Speaker 1: have to do the the various medical checks, interview stuff whatever.
Speaker 1: He's combine pressure. He's to me. I wrote about him
Speaker 1: as combine pressure. He has to and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't have no reason. I have no reason to doubt
Speaker 1: the kid. But he he comes in and and and
Speaker 1: scouts love to say checks all the boxes. This scout
Speaker 1: right here loves to say that checks all the boxes,
Speaker 1: checks all the boxes, combine pressure. Can he withstanding can
Speaker 1: he look at Howard and other guys working out and
Speaker 1: be able to hang in there and not drop passes,
Speaker 1: you know, look powerful coming off in the block and
Speaker 1: stuff run routes where he doesn't look bad. You know,
Speaker 1: you know these are these are all the things that
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to deal with because it's it's gonna
Speaker 1: be afterwards. We're gonna be talking about this tight end
Speaker 1: group and he can have that rise where everybody goes
Speaker 1: that's all they're talking about. They're not talking about Howard,
Speaker 1: because we all think Howard's pretty damn good football player.
Speaker 1: But this kid is gonna have to with Dan combined pressure,
Speaker 1: and that's gonna be key for you. You can make
Speaker 1: the argument that no other player in this class has
Speaker 1: more to gain or lose of the combine and we'll
Speaker 1: get into that too. Yeah, we'll get into that. Actually,
Speaker 1: y'all are doing a great job of giving me seguys.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that because Landon wants to know we
Speaker 1: I mean, we sort of touched on this in the
Speaker 1: first segment anyway, But you guys that have a lot
Speaker 1: to win. You hear about that all the time. But
Speaker 1: who who has the most to lose at the combine.
Speaker 1: See that's what that's our next Yeah, set, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: got we got that coming. Landing hangs with us on
Speaker 1: the Draft show. All right, we're gonna get into guys
Speaker 1: who had the most to win and the guys that
Speaker 1: have the most to lose. So just hang with us
Speaker 1: on that one, Landed, appreciate that. Here's a I know
Speaker 1: Cowboy fans, A lot of Cowboys fans like this guy,
Speaker 1: and I want to know Joe. Joe wants to know
Speaker 1: if he's a fit here. Uh tell tell me about
Speaker 1: Buddha Baker and does he fit for what the Cowboys
Speaker 1: need in the safety when you consider Byron Jones is
Speaker 1: already there. We talked about the measurements. Buddha Baker's a
Speaker 1: guy who his measurements will be really important. Um, there
Speaker 1: are teams in this league who will not draft a
Speaker 1: safety under two hundred pounds in the first round, maybe
Speaker 1: not even the top fifty picks, right, you know, because
Speaker 1: it traditionally look at this league and sub two hundred
Speaker 1: pounds safeties don't hold up. Now, Buddha Baker's a little
Speaker 1: different because he's in that tyrone. Matthew Mold Where he
Speaker 1: is he a coroner? Is he a Safety's kind of
Speaker 1: a little bit of both. Fits that nickel position really well.
Speaker 1: So if you want a true safety, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: Buddha Baker is your guy. But if you want a
Speaker 1: nickel a guy that you know in that tyron Matthew Mold,
Speaker 1: I think that would make that. That's what he is, right,
Speaker 1: This guy's a nickel player. I mean he's five nine
Speaker 1: and a half one hundred ninety two pounds. And Dan's right,
Speaker 1: the measurables, the measurables are going to be key for him.
Speaker 1: They really are. As soon as you say like hybrid player,
Speaker 1: I just shut down, like the Cowboys aren't going undrafted. Well,
Speaker 1: but but this guy, but what he's what he's talking
Speaker 1: about is he doesn't have the height, but what he
Speaker 1: has is that ability to get to the football. And
Speaker 1: you and I've seen it for firsthand retiring Matthew. We
Speaker 1: we've seen the ability to be around the football and
Speaker 1: create turnovers. Nobody loves the honey Badger more than me,
Speaker 1: But no, that's true. What would you do with him
Speaker 1: on in this Cowboys scheme? And that's really what I
Speaker 1: go back to and That's that's what makes me wonder
Speaker 1: about this is I don't think they want not that
Speaker 1: obviously they want good football players, but they I don't
Speaker 1: think they think that he fits in what they do well.
Speaker 1: And it's what percentage of the snaps are they in nickel?
Speaker 1: You know? Right? So is it seventy percent? I mean,
Speaker 1: he's it close to that number. And if it's so,
Speaker 1: then I think he could fit as your your third,
Speaker 1: your slot corner. A guy that can move around a
Speaker 1: little bit. How about is the free safety? Right? And
Speaker 1: because he can cover ground when he runs, I mean
Speaker 1: there's a you're someone a player with range. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a guy if you put him near the line, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's gonna make the tackle. You put him deep, he
Speaker 1: is gonna run his rear off to get to the ball.
Speaker 1: So does that mean you can use Byron Jones as
Speaker 1: you're very church. You can put Byron Jones down if
Speaker 1: you want, or you can interchange him, right if you
Speaker 1: want to put one down one back like that, and
Speaker 1: that's change right that you got the guy that could
Speaker 1: play the side. Note where he might be to disadvantage
Speaker 1: as if he has to play the tight end, if
Speaker 1: he has to play the bigger tight end, that might
Speaker 1: be a problem, but you put him deep at safety,
Speaker 1: he will run and it will be It'll be importantly
Speaker 1: we said the official numbers. Is he over one ninety,
Speaker 1: is he close to two hundred? Does he get close
Speaker 1: to five ten? And Karl Joseph last year there you
Speaker 1: go mid first round. He came in under five ten
Speaker 1: and only two hundred and five pounds, right, So it's
Speaker 1: not like he was this hulking safety, right And he's
Speaker 1: still run hit guy exactly and he's coming off in
Speaker 1: acol right, so and he still went mid first round.
Speaker 1: So I think Buddha Baker, he will be a very
Speaker 1: interesting prospect. He won't be a fit for everyone, but
Speaker 1: for a lot of teams, a team willing to be
Speaker 1: a little creative, he'll make some sense. Yep, all right,
Speaker 1: I like this question a lot because I know how
Speaker 1: y'all feel about this guy, and I mean, who knows
Speaker 1: if he'll even be there, But uh, you know, we've
Speaker 1: talked a lot about Jalen Smith this week at the
Speaker 1: combine between Steven Jones and Jason Garrett. Apparently he's going
Speaker 1: to be ready for the offseason program. We have no
Speaker 1: idea how effective he'll be. He's good playing that brace.
Speaker 1: It sounds like very likely to be playing with a
Speaker 1: brace on his foot. We don't know if he will
Speaker 1: be that Jalen Smith, which okay, but so linebacker is
Speaker 1: not the most jarring need on this team. I think
Speaker 1: we would agree. Well, when you talk about Damien Wilson
Speaker 1: and then you talk about Mark and Zatcha. Right, you've
Speaker 1: got some young guys you need to play. You've got
Speaker 1: some guys that need to play. You've got whatever to lose.
Speaker 1: Justin Durant though, probably let me get there, just let
Speaker 1: me get there everything we just said. If your boy
Speaker 1: Cunningham from Vanderbilt is there at twenty eight, do you
Speaker 1: make that pick. That's your boy. I like him, I
Speaker 1: like him, loves him. That's your boy. I absolutely love
Speaker 1: this guy when you draft him. Absolutely. I would as
Speaker 1: a strong side. Yeah, as a strong side linebacker, and
Speaker 1: they'll probably say they wouldn't play him in a strong side.
Speaker 1: I think you could play this guy anywhere. I really do.
Speaker 1: I think he could playim with Sam. I think he
Speaker 1: Mike I could play. People were talking about me, you know,
Speaker 1: Will he's he's you know, six three, two hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty pounds. He'll probably put on some weight more ways,
Speaker 1: he is a lanky guy. But I'll tell you what, though,
Speaker 1: you talk about a guy that can really and we
Speaker 1: boot a baker covering some ground, but this guy plays
Speaker 1: with a burst. If you really you would draft him
Speaker 1: in the first round alone, if you watch him play Georgia.
Speaker 1: If you can only watch one film of this guy
Speaker 1: to get a feel of what type of player he
Speaker 1: could potentially be, watch the Georgia game this year because
Speaker 1: he gets after it. And Vanderbilt does not have a
Speaker 1: great history of winning football programs, every once in a
Speaker 1: while they'll put a guy in the league. This guy
Speaker 1: right here, I think very quilt quietly. He's gonna go
Speaker 1: through this combine. But when you watch him move around,
Speaker 1: I think everybody will be very impressed with him. That
Speaker 1: would be That would be a BPA moment because I
Speaker 1: can't I and I said that when we were first
Speaker 1: starting the draft cycle. If Jayalen Smith is never Jalen Smith, though,
Speaker 1: I don't think I can justify a first round pick
Speaker 1: on a linebacker with everything else that you need. But
Speaker 1: if this guy is that much of a stud and
Speaker 1: he's there, Remember it was two I wish taken Miles Jack.
Speaker 1: I wish they had taken Miles That's not no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. I wish they would have taken Miles Jack
Speaker 1: in the second round. They didn't. They take a different linebacker.
Speaker 1: They didn't take Miles Jack. But look at two years
Speaker 1: ago they were ready to take Shack Thompson right, yeah,
Speaker 1: before he was snatched up, and they went Byron Jones
Speaker 1: the year before that. Yeah, right, So I mean they
Speaker 1: have there's a history there of linebacker being high. Might
Speaker 1: it might be it might be a high enough grade
Speaker 1: at twenty eight, right, And that's the thing. If he's
Speaker 1: still there at twenty eight, it could be that case
Speaker 1: this year where the best player available also fits a
Speaker 1: possible need, best linebacker or Ross. It depends on the medicals.
Speaker 1: It's so tough to say with Ross, right, Nicole's scare me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, if if healthy, I'm going Ross. But you
Speaker 1: know many knee surgeries two and that we did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we've traveled to Jalen Smith road, like I
Speaker 1: just want a guy who will be ready for a
Speaker 1: rookie camp, Like he'll be out there. Lucky that Jalen
Speaker 1: Smith didn't have to play they really are. Well, look,
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. Is a rookie really gonna
Speaker 1: be the difference between a super Bowl or not? Probably not?
Speaker 1: But thirteen games a rookie taken at twenty eight although well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I never know, Dane, you never know that guarantee. There's
Speaker 1: people right now that love you and right now are
Speaker 1: yelling at their screen because of what you just said.
Speaker 1: Let's like, okay, let's wait to take a quarterback to
Speaker 1: the sixth round, Tom Brady. Okay, yeah, even you're in
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, a guy taken at twenty
Speaker 1: eight probably will not be the difference between it. Of course,
Speaker 1: So I'm on the field, okay, okay, when we talk
Speaker 1: about real quick in Ross, would you expect him to
Speaker 1: help with no, with with playing opposite Dez Bryant. And
Speaker 1: it's not like Ross is hurt right now, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: he's got a history, right exactly, he has a history.
Speaker 1: But I'm asking you could Ross help at at play
Speaker 1: play the second receiver on this team at twenty eight
Speaker 1: a receiver, yes, any any of the receivers that they
Speaker 1: could take in that range. I think I mean Terrence
Speaker 1: stepped in and was fine at at seventy seven. Back
Speaker 1: in twenty third. I'd love him there. But this is
Speaker 1: a good receiver draft. I think you look at the
Speaker 1: receivers in the second third round. Yeah, that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of the sweet spot. So you might not need to
Speaker 1: take one at twenty eight, right. I think there's a
Speaker 1: good chance that the best player available on their board
Speaker 1: at twenty eight will not be a receiver, would be
Speaker 1: a corner. And don't you think there's a much better
Speaker 1: chance on it. I mean defensive end or corner, much
Speaker 1: better chance of a corner, possibly a defensive end. We're
Speaker 1: cutting him at linebacker on March first. I can sit
Speaker 1: here and say, this is the real excite about cutting him.
Speaker 1: This is the real kiss of death right here on
Speaker 1: March first. I just feel like I feel pretty damn
Speaker 1: confident saying pass rusher or d back one or the other. Gosh,
Speaker 1: it's already March. It's drafty beer before we know it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think you're right the way, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about that incessantly last year. You know, the
Speaker 1: thirty four was a sweet spot for receivers and rhada yadayada. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just the way that this with what they need
Speaker 1: and what is available to them. It just makes too
Speaker 1: much sense. It would have to be something crazy like
Speaker 1: a you know, a Cunninghammer, another top twenty guy like
Speaker 1: that falling. You know, maybe somebody puts a gas mask
Speaker 1: on on draft night. Where did you have cutting him
Speaker 1: on your board? Uh like nineteen something like that. So
Speaker 1: at twenty eight you'd be okay with that then? Right?
Speaker 1: Sure that we'll see who else is there? But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's we'll see, And it's one of those
Speaker 1: things we're dressing your board. It depends, yes, because that
Speaker 1: I'm not my board is not for the Cowboys. Mind No, No,
Speaker 1: I just I was just saying, so you would you
Speaker 1: would you wouldn't question them if they took him at
Speaker 1: twenty eight if I have, If I have, you would
Speaker 1: say that's a valued pick. Sure. If Cunningham's my nineteenth player,
Speaker 1: and say Charles Harris is my twenty first player and
Speaker 1: both players are available at twenty eight, I'm probably leading
Speaker 1: the pass rusher. I mean, you know, because I'm not
Speaker 1: doing my board for the Cowboys. I'm doing my board
Speaker 1: just an overall talent, similar tiers, they're similar areas, So
Speaker 1: I'm going passed rush. Who's a better player Cunninghammer or
Speaker 1: Harris and on your board cunning him. Yeah, I haven't
Speaker 1: rated as a better player, but first round player, right, yes.
Speaker 1: But for this this team, I think if the pass
Speaker 1: rusher is rated very close, I'm leading the pass rusher
Speaker 1: just based on he's getting on the field quicker and
Speaker 1: he's gonna make more of an infat And that's Stephen
Speaker 1: Jones kind of alluded to that, you know, and BPA
Speaker 1: is the right way to go, and it makes sense
Speaker 1: and don't window dress your board. But Stephen Jones even
Speaker 1: kind of said last night, he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you need guys for a reason, like you have needs
Speaker 1: for a reason, and you know it's hard to sit
Speaker 1: there and the guys you need look a lot better
Speaker 1: than the guys you don't need, even if it might
Speaker 1: not be ranked that one. This is why you fight
Speaker 1: like hell on the stack, right, This is where you
Speaker 1: when you build a board, this is where you take
Speaker 1: your sword and you go to battle to try and
Speaker 1: and you always make it so dramatic. It is dramatic.
Speaker 1: It is dramatic because you know what, it's your team
Speaker 1: you're fighting for. You you're fighting for your life. You
Speaker 1: really are. I mean, you're the guy. He's an ex
Speaker 1: scal he gets fired. I have, I have fought these battles. No,
Speaker 1: it was more than scal. I mean I sat in
Speaker 1: that room and died when things have happened wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: trust me, you you you want me in that room
Speaker 1: with you. You want you want me on that wall.
Speaker 1: John Elway today said something, so you know that ideally
Speaker 1: you go into the draft without that one glaring need, right,
Speaker 1: you know, so you can go best player available, you
Speaker 1: can go. You can you don't. You can go buy
Speaker 1: your board, right, So whoever the best player is on
Speaker 1: your board, you can go that player. But it's not
Speaker 1: always the case. No, it's not every round, not every round.
Speaker 1: But I think, to me, the board is important. I
Speaker 1: think the stack is even more important. The stack. Give
Speaker 1: me the one to one fifty, because that's gonna tell
Speaker 1: me the difference between DeMarcus Ware and Sean Merriman. That way,
Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. Tags to tags. Yeah, so anyway,
Speaker 1: all right, you got one more maybe one more? Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually I had one that I was really curious about.
Speaker 1: One more thing. We got to get to a break
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back and I want to get
Speaker 1: to Dame Sliss of combined winners and losers. Tell me
Speaker 1: this is this is almost like a tell me more
Speaker 1: because y'all are away far ahead of me. Dave wants
Speaker 1: to know tell me, tell me about Shelton Gibson and
Speaker 1: what you expect to see from him this week. And
Speaker 1: we were pleasantly surprised. We watched his tape. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: can fly, true deep threat. He saw him do a
Speaker 1: lot of that in the West Virginia tape. Yeah, reminded
Speaker 1: me a lot of Kenny Stills form Oklahoma receiver who
Speaker 1: I consider that to be a good comparison. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there's some questions about him as an underneath receiver,
Speaker 1: developing his routes, being a consistent catcher to the football,
Speaker 1: but that deep speed is really impressed. If he has
Speaker 1: a chance to separate late go and attack the ball,
Speaker 1: and that that might be the best thing about his tape.
Speaker 1: He attacks the ball, He doesn't let the ball come
Speaker 1: to him. And as a deep receiver going up against
Speaker 1: you know, corners who can run with you. Now, he
Speaker 1: played in the Big twelve, where you know defense is
Speaker 1: offal and especially in the secondary. But I was pleasantly
Speaker 1: surprised by his tape. I think he might run a
Speaker 1: four three here. I think he'll be in that range.
Speaker 1: And Dave actually wants I mean, will he be this
Speaker 1: year's will Fuller, which what you're describing to me, he's bigger.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's quite will Fuller. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: will Fuller is a four three two forty yard dash.
Speaker 1: I think Gibson's more in the high four threes, which
Speaker 1: isn't a bad thing. Um, but you know, he maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know third round, you know, I think somewhere
Speaker 1: on TAD two. Uh. If you're looking for that deep threat,
Speaker 1: he fits a certain description. That's what you're looking for.
Speaker 1: He makes some sense. I mean, I know it's not
Speaker 1: this simplistic, but that's exactly what the Cowboys should be
Speaker 1: working looking for. Is somebody who can just fly and
Speaker 1: scare the crap out of other teams. And and Beasley
Speaker 1: and all those other guys worry about stretch out the defense.
Speaker 1: This guy puts a lot of pressure on your defense.
Speaker 1: He puts the way he runs. You give him free
Speaker 1: access and route let him go. He is gonna put
Speaker 1: a ton of pressure on you. And what's amazing bat.
Speaker 1: He draws a ton of flacks. Yeah, I've never seen
Speaker 1: a receiver draw more to it, flags from safeties, over
Speaker 1: the top guys, maybe the ball short and he's having
Speaker 1: to come back to the ball because he's outrun everybody.
Speaker 1: He draws more penalties than any other receiver I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: I struggled with that because I wrote that in my notes,
Speaker 1: and you know, we talked about that. I've never seen
Speaker 1: a receiver draw more flags. But how much of that
Speaker 1: is just terrible big twelve defensive backplay. How about his
Speaker 1: quarterback not getting him the ball exactly, that's part of
Speaker 1: it too. So it's but he has a knack for that.
Speaker 1: It's really remarkable. I mean, like I said, I know
Speaker 1: Dez Bryan can score on a fifty yard go. He's
Speaker 1: done in a million times. But the older he gets,
Speaker 1: that's not how I want to use him anyway. I
Speaker 1: want a guy who can do that. And that's this
Speaker 1: is a great example of why I don't think they
Speaker 1: take a receiver at twenty eight. You can get guys
Speaker 1: like Gibson, uh, you know, on day two and be
Speaker 1: happy about the West Virginia receiver. Though there's been some
Speaker 1: there's been some hold your reer on that. Sure, you know,
Speaker 1: and put your hand that card in. You're like going
Speaker 1: and you know, but it isn't Bailey Austin letting the
Speaker 1: Tavon Austin, yea from six years and I'm just saying, no,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's Tavon Austin. Makes you think in the
Speaker 1: second round where you know, maybe maybe the thing goes different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then it's not a bad pick. Top ten all right, anyway,
Speaker 1: thanks everybody on Twitter on the twenty. Really do appreciate
Speaker 1: your question. We'll do that every night, so you know,
Speaker 1: if you're watching the combine, we'll watching right, I'll send
Speaker 1: the question, I'll send out the ask earlier. Yeah, I see, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll get some more in, but we'll catch that tomorrow
Speaker 1: and I as well. Okay, when we come back, Dane
Speaker 1: Bugler and I are going to go through and David
Speaker 1: Hellmer are going to go through our guys to watch
Speaker 1: that either can have success or might even have failure.
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Speaker 1: is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Showboys. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Draft show here from the Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Speaker 1: We appreciate everybody out there that's been watching all the
Speaker 1: different platforms we have. You know whether it's been on
Speaker 1: the on Twitter for us. What else we got, Dave,
Speaker 1: that we do poping, periscoping cowboys at Cowboys avoys dot
Speaker 1: Com everywhere. We appreciate that, and we and we appreciate
Speaker 1: you know that you guys want to interact with us.
Speaker 1: I also want to remind folks at Dane Burglars on
Speaker 1: a podcast with Jeff Kavanaugh that Jeff and one of
Speaker 1: five three is one of our partners here with the
Speaker 1: Draft Show Dane. That's the uh, the Draft Show, it's excume,
Speaker 1: it's the Trust Trust to Tape, and it's a it's
Speaker 1: done a great job. So if you want to check
Speaker 1: out the Draft Show right comments, I go in there
Speaker 1: and read about that like the Draft Show, We're all
Speaker 1: about that, and then also check out Dan and Jeff
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh on Trust to Tape. That will be another way
Speaker 1: of getting your your your draft information. Uh. As we
Speaker 1: go further along, I also want to thank h Caliber
Speaker 1: Collision and Tommy John for also getting us here at
Speaker 1: Indianapolis and also helping us have a night's dinner last
Speaker 1: night at Saint Elmo's. We appreciate that as well. Dave.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna turn the show over to you, right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: lets you do a little uh little questions and answers
Speaker 1: with Dane and I, and it really trying to get
Speaker 1: into about the the guys that we think the winners. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of stow y'all's thunder with that question from Landing.
Speaker 1: So Landing did a good job. We appreciate Landing. I
Speaker 1: like Landing. He's a good question. Ask I think this
Speaker 1: is I mean, it's an interesting point though. Great we
Speaker 1: have guys who can win, but who who has the
Speaker 1: most to lose here? And I honestly it's even more
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer because I'd probably say Joe
Speaker 1: Mixon if he was here, but he's not. So with
Speaker 1: that in mind, what do you think? Yeah? There, Dane,
Speaker 1: And the way I look at the combine, you break
Speaker 1: up into four categories, the interviews, the medicals, the on
Speaker 1: field testing both the positional and the athletic, and then
Speaker 1: the verified measurements. I think all four areas are important
Speaker 1: and for different players. And we talked about Buddha Baker
Speaker 1: how the verified measurements are important for him, right uh,
Speaker 1: you know the forty yard dash from Mike Williams, that
Speaker 1: type of thing, right Uh, you know, so for each player,
Speaker 1: you could really identify one of those criteria as being
Speaker 1: more important. DeMarcus Walker, Florida State. I think the workouts
Speaker 1: are really important for him because you watch him on tape,
Speaker 1: he's not that explosive edge rusher who's going to capture
Speaker 1: the corner, you know, wrap around tackles. His best production
Speaker 1: came from the interior where he was beating slow footed
Speaker 1: offense and guards. So watch the Old Miss game. If
Speaker 1: you get that opportunity, that'll open your eyes. Him playing inside, well,
Speaker 1: just you watch him in any game and he's not
Speaker 1: doing anything off the edge, off the edge, but inside
Speaker 1: it's a difference exactly. And so how will he test here?
Speaker 1: I think if that matches up with the tape, it's
Speaker 1: just it's going to hurt him. And I've heard people
Speaker 1: talking about him as a possible first round pick. It
Speaker 1: doesn't show it on tape, and I don't think he's
Speaker 1: going to perform like a first round to hear, so
Speaker 1: potentially he's a guy that could hurt himself. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. I think another guy when when you
Speaker 1: start talking about, uh, you know, the workouts and really
Speaker 1: how well, how he's gonna how things are going to
Speaker 1: pan out. I think Juju Smith Schuster, and I say
Speaker 1: this because I do, and Juju smith Schuster plays wide
Speaker 1: receiver at USC, and A and Dani has told you,
Speaker 1: and we've told you this all along. It's a pretty
Speaker 1: deep class of wide receivers. The tape I've seen to him,
Speaker 1: I see a guy that can catch the football. I
Speaker 1: see a guy that shows toughness. I see a smart
Speaker 1: football player. Guy that caught a ball at the end
Speaker 1: of a football game. Instead of scoring, he felled down
Speaker 1: to run the clock out. That's football intelligence right there.
Speaker 1: Give me the guy that has a smart player. We
Speaker 1: saw what happened with the Cowboys with Terrence Williams not
Speaker 1: getting out of bounce. I think Juju Smith Schuster. How
Speaker 1: he runs the forty yard dash will tell you a
Speaker 1: lot about now. Hopefully he will get a time to
Speaker 1: where he runs well enough to where he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to run a get at USC. Based on tape, he's
Speaker 1: going to probably be in the high four fives, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's gonna be that's just the tape. Now, if
Speaker 1: he's been training, if he can get that into the
Speaker 1: into the low four fives, maybe even a four or
Speaker 1: five oh something like that. I think that the tape
Speaker 1: is good enough. You could see him make plays. But
Speaker 1: the question is really how fast is he going to
Speaker 1: be if he avoids the four sixes? Yeah, he can't.
Speaker 1: He can't go out there and run a four six
Speaker 1: eight and and because people will go to usc but
Speaker 1: can you take a four six eight? You don't want
Speaker 1: people gleeve in here and thinking that's what he is.
Speaker 1: Didn't my homie Jarvis run a really bad four seven
Speaker 1: at the combine? You can bounce back, but what was?
Speaker 1: What was when was Landry taken three? So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get Smith Schuster in that mix of conversation of say,
Speaker 1: second round, but what wide receiver? What have we been
Speaker 1: talking about this wide receiver class? And how deep it is? Second?
Speaker 1: Third round? I'm trying to position in better or I'm
Speaker 1: looking at him. So many receivers stacked close to each
Speaker 1: other that forty yard could be a distinguishing factor that
Speaker 1: could move them up and down. This raises an interesting question,
Speaker 1: of all the things that are going to happen here,
Speaker 1: is it fair to say that the on field is
Speaker 1: the least important? Though I'd say the four criteria that
Speaker 1: I mentioned it's third. You know, I think verify you
Speaker 1: should have a close idea to you know guys just
Speaker 1: behind the eye test. But first and foremost of the medicals.
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked about that, how important that is.
Speaker 1: That's why they combine exists. Second, the interviews, and that's
Speaker 1: where I think a lot of these players have something
Speaker 1: you talk about winners and losers. Tim Williams from Alabama,
Speaker 1: that's my guy. How does he interview? You know? We yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: how important is football? Do you right? His answers better
Speaker 1: be good because teams are beady. And remember that these
Speaker 1: interviews are it's like speed dating. It's like fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: quick hitter. So they're not going to waste time getting
Speaker 1: to know you. They're gonna ask the hard questions right away,
Speaker 1: and you know, try and trip you up a little bit.
Speaker 1: So you better don't come off, you know, like you're annoyed.
Speaker 1: Don't come off tire, don't come You'll get be excited.
Speaker 1: But yeah, right, the questions that you are the you know,
Speaker 1: be on ahead. You have to be yeah, forthcoming with
Speaker 1: the only your mistakes, but at the same time project
Speaker 1: how that's in your past. Yeah, there's people they're gonna
Speaker 1: ask him questions. Dane's absolutely right. You don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of time with this kid, and then the horn
Speaker 1: sounds and he's got to be somewhere else. You better
Speaker 1: make sure that your two best questions are your two
Speaker 1: best questions. Yeah, because he's gonna have to give you
Speaker 1: some extensive answers. And I think these interviews are gonna
Speaker 1: tell whether people want to bring him in for the
Speaker 1: thirty visit. That's where I think he's he is. He
Speaker 1: is talking now whether teams are gonna have him completely
Speaker 1: off the board or do we bring him in as
Speaker 1: a guy as one of our thirty visits. And again,
Speaker 1: he's that good of a football player. By the way.
Speaker 1: Another point, and well, if there were no questions about him,
Speaker 1: I don't think he'd get past like fifteen. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he's the top ten pick. Yeah, he's said can
Speaker 1: maybe the first best pass rush from this draft. So
Speaker 1: with that in mind, and you know, we talk all
Speaker 1: the time about how the combine is like this moment
Speaker 1: of truth on the medical front. You know, yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna find out about you, We're gonna know what this means,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So you know, Tim Williams is going
Speaker 1: to go through this on the interview front. What does
Speaker 1: that look like? And I guess the fascinating thing is
Speaker 1: probably that it's gonna look it's gonna be thirty two
Speaker 1: different answers for thirty two different teams. Like, somebody's gonna
Speaker 1: be like, we can work with this guy, and then
Speaker 1: there's gonna be half a dozen teams that are like,
Speaker 1: get him out of here, we don't want to talk
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, absolutely, And I think and how but
Speaker 1: how do we come to a consensus on that over
Speaker 1: the next month and a half or there won't be
Speaker 1: good question? Yeah? Yeah, no. And that's something that is
Speaker 1: one of the layers of what makes the draft so
Speaker 1: intriguing because different teams will feel differently about the issues,
Speaker 1: felt feel differently about the value where they'd feel comfortable
Speaker 1: taking a player like that, you know, for some teams
Speaker 1: off the board completely other teams, you know what if
Speaker 1: he's still available in this round, Okay, we'd feel comfortable
Speaker 1: at that point. So we when we talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the character guys, the quarterbacks in the interviews,
Speaker 1: that's going to be really important. Deshaun Kaiser, why do
Speaker 1: you have a losing record left right? Is that you
Speaker 1: know what? What? What didn't you do that you needed
Speaker 1: to do? What? But the coaching well, you know, it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like you and Brian Kelly and the offensive
Speaker 1: coaching staff were always on the same page. Why not tape?
Speaker 1: But I want to hear from Deshaun Kaiser. Is that
Speaker 1: the case? Were you worried about Malik's that year? We
Speaker 1: were worried about the coaches not having trust in you.
Speaker 1: I want to hear his answers because he has to
Speaker 1: be honest, but not throw the coaches under the bus
Speaker 1: and blame others. Is he going to be you know
Speaker 1: kind of is he gonna put it on himself or
Speaker 1: blame others? I want to hear Deshun Kaiser's explanation, so
Speaker 1: I we'll hear him tomorrow in the media. I think
Speaker 1: it'll be a little more guarded diplomatic with his answers.
Speaker 1: But with these teams, how does he answer those questions?
Speaker 1: Pat Mahomes, you know, okay, yeah, I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: an offensive scenario, you know, a pro style uh verbiage.
Speaker 1: You know, how does he handle that? You know, you
Speaker 1: make that call in the huddle where is he mentally
Speaker 1: in terms of his development. We know physically what he brings,
Speaker 1: but coming from the air raid offense, uh, you know
Speaker 1: which where is he mentally? That's something that's going to
Speaker 1: be big for his value. Dave, I want to bring
Speaker 1: up something that we won't get to see or the
Speaker 1: fans at home won't get to see, but scouts will.
Speaker 1: And that's the second position workout. That's something that you
Speaker 1: know that as a as a as a scout. Sitting
Speaker 1: there at the old RCA Dome, you know, watching them
Speaker 1: go through, I always fun I always always wonder maybe
Speaker 1: they need to work this guy and Dane, you know
Speaker 1: you're talking about Speedy Noll. You know you think he's
Speaker 1: a cornerback, corner. Yeah, see this is where this is
Speaker 1: where this this is where the second workout that you
Speaker 1: don't see on TV, but it's between say they run
Speaker 1: the forty yard dashes, they'll put a guy through. They'll
Speaker 1: bring a position coach out there and they'll work the
Speaker 1: kid out as a corner, or they'll work out a
Speaker 1: guy like Curtis Samuel, who I think is a running back.
Speaker 1: You know he's you know a receiver, is he a
Speaker 1: running back? He's going to go through. I mean you're
Speaker 1: missing the most Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly, there you go.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I feel like though the second position
Speaker 1: workout could gain you know, that could gain some traction
Speaker 1: of somebody in a draft room saying we'll put on
Speaker 1: the Combine tape when he was going through the drills, Look,
Speaker 1: he looks like a corner there. No, he looks he's
Speaker 1: got corner feet, he's got the burst, he's got the turn,
Speaker 1: he's got the you know, all those things you wanted
Speaker 1: to corn. He can't catch, you know, that's why you
Speaker 1: can't play him at receiver. So to me, the second
Speaker 1: position workout is going to be a key fascinating for
Speaker 1: a lot of guys here. And we'll and you know,
Speaker 1: we'll get the Combine list. I'll get to come on
Speaker 1: us and we'll figure out who the who's because the
Speaker 1: teams ask specifically, would you please work this guy out?
Speaker 1: And and the and the Combine does a great job.
Speaker 1: They put a coach out there and they work him
Speaker 1: out for five minutes and you get an idea if
Speaker 1: he can do it or not. I would hate that
Speaker 1: if I were an NFL team, because I want to
Speaker 1: go do it privately with them. Some teams do, but
Speaker 1: but they I guarantee you there will be some guys
Speaker 1: that that will go through wide receiver workouts that they'll
Speaker 1: try at corner and they'll flip. There's been some there's
Speaker 1: been some guys at the time that have been quarterbacks
Speaker 1: that they flipped to other positions. In your experience, and
Speaker 1: this has to has to have happened, Like do you
Speaker 1: guys get pissed like with I mean speeding oil and
Speaker 1: you've been receiver since you were fifteen, Matt Jones. If
Speaker 1: you were Matt Jones a lot of money, made a
Speaker 1: lot of money going from playing a quarterback at Arkansas
Speaker 1: running four in the four threes twice. Thought my watchers
Speaker 1: wrong the first time, sat there with him, like, what'd
Speaker 1: you guys get? Four? Three eight? Okay, I'm in the ballpark.
Speaker 1: Here we go. Second does it again? Now, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you see Matt Jones out there catching footballs
Speaker 1: like in the Gauntland drill and stuff. You're like, going,
Speaker 1: it's not a quarterback, he's a receiver. But you know, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know how that works. Yeah, Well, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, though it happened. The point is, well, happened.
Speaker 1: I just I've been practicing receiver since you're fourteen years old,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, you suck at it. Do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's something. Hey, Richard Sherman, he was a wide receiver
Speaker 1: most of his career and then it wasn't. The combine
Speaker 1: was his last year at Stanford. Moves the corner. But
Speaker 1: you know, still for some of these guys, it doesn't
Speaker 1: take that hard. You know, dig up a few past
Speaker 1: examples to understand making the switch could be in your
Speaker 1: best interest long term. Before we get out of here,
Speaker 1: I know we have a couple of minutes ago before
Speaker 1: we get out of here. Who is the guy you
Speaker 1: have is a chance to have it? Could be the
Speaker 1: biggest gainer in this whole thing, to make the biggest
Speaker 1: gain any position, any position. I think it's Adam Shheen.
Speaker 1: You know we talked. I think he has the most
Speaker 1: to gain or lose, just because he's coming from that
Speaker 1: Division two level. He has to come in and perform
Speaker 1: really well because that's how he looks on tape. But again,
Speaker 1: that division two thing can make him look maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit better than he is. How does he do
Speaker 1: against the big boys when he's going you know, right
Speaker 1: after some of these other tight ends who have been
Speaker 1: playing at the FBS level and guys like go j
Speaker 1: Howard and Joe Kup and so I think he has
Speaker 1: a lot to gain, but potentially some of the you know,
Speaker 1: buzz will wear off if he doesn't look as good here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I tell you what. I think it'll be really interesting
Speaker 1: as well what happens with these defensive ends. You know,
Speaker 1: a guy like Thomas and Barnett, mcdel hairs. I mean
Speaker 1: there's a clump of them, you know who of that group?
Speaker 1: Who which Which guy out of all that gaggle of
Speaker 1: guys that we've seen so far, could just elevate himself,
Speaker 1: go from the combine, go to workouts. And now the
Speaker 1: draft stock is huge and well, I mean I don't
Speaker 1: care about that because I'm thinking about where the cowboys right.
Speaker 1: But gaggle is a great word. We've been talking about
Speaker 1: like eight guys for a month and a half, and
Speaker 1: by the end of this week, the pecking order is
Speaker 1: gonna start to sort itself out and we can kind
Speaker 1: of hope get solid Psalmon. Thomas is looking to go up.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a top he's a top twelve guy
Speaker 1: and looking to go up. So okay, that's all the time.
Speaker 1: Excuse me a second here, made it all the way through,
Speaker 1: made it all the way to the fifty nine minute marks.
Speaker 1: Wow about that. Sorry, no cough buttons, Yeah, no call buttons.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna sound terrible. He was I gonna do this? Oh?
Speaker 1: Do you want me to just do it for you?
Speaker 1: Why don't you take us out? David, Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: today one of our NFL Combined Draft Show coverage. We
Speaker 1: will be back every day until Saturday. Until Saturday, I'm
Speaker 1: David Hellman. That was Brian broad Up, that's for the
Speaker 1: coughing Fit and Dane Brugler. We'll be back tomorrow. Thanks
Speaker 1: for watching, See you next time.