1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: From House to works dot Com. Hey look this podcast. 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristen. Kristen weird confession. Sometimes 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: I forget people's birthday on purpose, So forget like in 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: quotation marks, just because I like sending belated birthday cards 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: better than regular birthday cards. Why because, like, when I'm 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: looking for a birthday card in the store, all the 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: ones I'll read for a regular birthday, which is not 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: funny to me, But then I'll read the belated ones 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: and I think that they're funny somehow. They're just funnier 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: than regular cards to me. Well, I handmake all of 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: my cards, Molly, so I don't. I don't really have 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: that issue. Of course you don't, Kristen. You have none 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: of my issues but a whole pack of your own, 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: so I don't need to quibble. Um. But the reason 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: I brought up belated birthday cards is because we have 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of a belated birthday to celebrate. Yes. 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: On a June twenty three, nineteen seventy two, Title nine 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: was born our little bundle of joy. That's when it 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: was passed by Congress. A few days later. We missed 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: this birthday to July one. It was signed by President 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon into law. Yeah, it was. It was. It 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: came out of Congress's womb and was thanked into life 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: by President Richard Nixon. But it wasn't really until a 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: few years later, much like a child, that it really 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: got legs and started walking around. It's true, you're going 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: to carry this metaphorum for a while as long as possible. Well, 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: let me, um, let me reach what the birth announcement 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: said to borrow your your metaphor. I love this and 31 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: but that I mean, let me read you the text 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: of the law. Okay. It says, no person in the 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded 34 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity. We 36 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: see eating federal financial assistance. M Now, one thing that 37 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: I don't hear in that LA Molly is anything dealing 38 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: with sports or athletes. That's right, but that's what we 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: associate with most Now. I think, yes, Title nine is 40 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: responsible for getting a lot more girls and women involved 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: in school athletics. But the main driver behind Title nine 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: had to do just with access to education and promotion 43 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: as a faculty member. Do you want to go back 44 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: in time and and see what led up to the 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: glorious birth of Title nine? Yes. The woman that we 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: have to thank for Title nine, who has been called 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: by the New York Times the godmother of Title nine, 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: is a laden named Bernice Sandler. And Bernice Sandler, back 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: in the sixties was teaching part time at the University 50 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: of Maryland, and she was teaching while she was getting 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: her doctorate. She finishes her doctorate and she's really excited 52 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: because there's seven openings in the department that she wants 53 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: to work for. And she applies for one of the positions, 54 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: and the department head says, Bernice, I like you. You 55 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: seem nice, but I'm just not going to give you 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: the job. And Bernice says, what, I am an excellent student, 57 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm an excellent teacher. Why on earth would you not 58 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: give me one of these seven open positions? And he 59 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: says to Bernice, he says, Bernice, let's face it, you 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: come on too strong for a woman. Well dens fighting words. No, 61 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: she doesn't fight. She goes hevn cries, she's miserable. She 62 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: then crying words. Then she doesn't fight till later. We'll 63 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: get toss your fights later. But I mean she goes 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: home and basically regrets all the time she ever, you know, 65 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: spoke up too much in class, spoke up too much 66 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: in staff meeting. She regrets everything she did that might 67 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: have made her too strong for a woman. And it's 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: actually her husband who helps her figure out that the 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: idea of just being too strong for a woman is 70 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: sex discrimination. Right, because this is happening in nineteen sixty nine, 71 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: and although Bernez points out and um an article on 72 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: her website about this whole story that although sex discrimination 73 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: was illegal in certain circumstances, a lot of the laws 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: prohibiting just discrimination in general didn't cover sex discrimination in education. 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: For instance, she points out the Title seven of the 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination and employment on the basis 77 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: of race, color, religion, national origin, and sex, but excluded 78 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: educational institutions in their educational activities i e. Faculty and administrators. 79 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: And also the Equal Pay Act prohibited discrimination and salaries 80 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: on the basis of sex, but again exempted all professional 81 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: and administrative employees, including faculty. So Bernice is being turned 82 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: down for more and more jobs. And she starts reading 83 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: about the civil rights movement because she wants to figure 84 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: out how African Americans had broke down these segregated systems 85 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: and found some form of equality. And what she comes 86 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: across is this report from the U S Commission on 87 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: Civil Rights with that had a presidential executive order that 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: prohibited federal contractors from discrimination and employment on the basis 89 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: of race, color, religion, and national origin. And this is 90 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: my favorite part. There was a footnote, and Bernice says 91 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: that because she was an academic, she of course read 92 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: all the footnotes, and she found in the footnote that 93 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: the executive had been amended by President Johnson on October 94 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: thirte to include discrimination based on sex. So it's there. 95 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: It's just no one knows it because it's in a footnote, right, 96 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: because the executive order was dealing with federal contractors and 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: colleges and universities, our federal contractors because they received funding 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: directly from the government. So what does Bernice do. She 99 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: gets on the phone and she calls the Office of 100 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: the Federal contract Compliance at the Department of labor Um 101 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: to raise this complaint, and she was immediately connected with 102 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: the director because he was basically waiting for someone to 103 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: find that very footnote and start challenging this law. And 104 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: then um, she and the director get together, they started 105 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: strategize about how to bring enforcement of the executive order. 106 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: She gets involved under the Women's Equality Action League and 107 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: basically starts a national campaign to end discrimination and education. 108 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: And it takes a little while and takes a lot 109 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: of mimeographing to get this done. Um, and that for 110 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: all you youngsters out there, that was that was a 111 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: joke because mimeographs were the predecessor to Xerox machines and 112 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: they weren't as omniir present as they are today. Yeah, 113 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: so it was kind of a big deal. It was 114 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: a big deal to be putting together all this paperwork. 115 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: And what Bernice did, again being an academic, she found evidence. 116 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: You know, she was leading this lawsuit that was filed 117 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: on behalf of all women in higher education. But in 118 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: order to really have teeth, she wanted a lot of 119 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: specifics um on ways in which women had been discriminated 120 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: against in terms of admission, financial assistance, hiring, and higher 121 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: education promotions and salary differentials. She is just putting together 122 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: document after document, and women are starting to hear eventually 123 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: that this is going on, and they're they're they're contributing 124 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: their own evidence to this, right UM. And during the 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: next two years, so this is from seventy one, she 126 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: files charges against approximately two hundred and fifty institutions, not 127 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: to mention another hundred or so filed by other individuals 128 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: and organizations, including the National Organization for Women and among 129 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: the institutions that UM Sandler, under the auspices of the 130 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: Women's Equality Action League charge uh. She points a finger 131 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: at them, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, University of Chicago, 132 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: and I love this, the entire state university and college 133 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: systems of California, New Jersey, in Florida. Sandler was not 134 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: messing around. She was not and so you know, she 135 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: got all these women to send her evidence. But she 136 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: also told all of them that they had to write 137 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: their congress people. I mean, the way that she puts 138 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: it is that they had to hire an extra person 139 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: just to deal with all the mail that these women 140 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: were sending about what was going on in higher education. 141 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: So it was really a concentrated effort by a lot 142 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: of people led by Sandler, and luckily they found a 143 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: lot of congress people who would go with the case 144 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: to Congress and and start to really chip away at 145 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: this discrimination. Yeah, and so they held a Congressional hearing 146 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: about the issue, and in the spring of nineteen seventy two, 147 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: which is actually two years after the hearing, um we 148 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: have we have Title nine passed. But it wasn't passed 149 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: as it was originally intended to be. Actually had to 150 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: be slipped into UM, the Education Amendments of nineteen seventy two, 151 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: because initially some Congress people were trying to pass the 152 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: Equal Rights Amendment and have this included as part of it. 153 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: That wasn't gonna fly. And so they slipped Title nine 154 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: out of the e r A, slipped it into this 155 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: Educational Higher Education Amendment, and then on like we said 156 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: June twenty three, nineteen seventy two, we have Title nine 157 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: of the Education Amendments of nineteen seventy two UM passed 158 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: by the Congress and then signed into law on July one. 159 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: And you know what I kind of liked about sandler stories, 160 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: how she said, you know that you know when all 161 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: these herrings were going on. She really wanted to go 162 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: out and lobby, and all the senators and representative she 163 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: was working with were like, no, don't lobby. We don't 164 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: want people to figure out what's in this bill. Yeah, 165 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: we kind of need to just speak quiet about it, 166 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: slip it in, slided and under the radar. And apparently 167 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: only a few Ivy League schools worried that they'd actually 168 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: have to admit women. She cites that Harvard, Prince snil 169 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: and Dartmouth were concerned that they would have to admit 170 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: women in equal numbers because they had decided that there 171 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: were specific ratios sex ratios that were best for learning, 172 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: and she didn't you know, those schools didn't want a 173 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: government tell them what those ratios were. So that was 174 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: the one stinker that came up. A few people, you know, 175 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: she emphasizes, very few noticed that because athletics were administered 176 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: by schools, that they too would be affected by the bill. 177 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: And so there was discussion on the floor of the 178 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: Senate about whether the bill required educational institutions to allow 179 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: women to play on football teams. And uh, you know, 180 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: there was this discussion. They decided, no, women won't play 181 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: football because it's you know, you know, it's too dangerous. 182 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: But they didn't have the foresight to think, oh, maybe 183 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: this is going to affect other sports besides football. Right. 184 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: But lo and behold, as we said at the beginning, now, 185 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: when we think of Title nine, I know that my 186 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: mind immediately jumps to football, and we'll not to football, 187 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: but the sports. Yes, because the Title nine is to 188 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: thank for a dramatic increase in women's participations in college 189 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: in school sports. For instance, according to the National Organization 190 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: of Women, in the days before Title nine, only one 191 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: in twenty seven girls played varsity high school sports, and 192 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: by two thousand one that figures up to one and 193 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: two point five for a total of two point eight 194 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: million girls playing high school sports. And similarly, only thirty 195 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: two thousand women athletes played on intercollegiate teams prior to 196 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: Title nine, compared with a hundred and fifty thousand today, 197 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: including more than a million dollars in scholarships for women, 198 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: especially at Division one schools. I mean, we still have 199 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: the emphasis among you know, n C double A schools 200 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: for especially men's football, men's basketball. But when you really 201 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: get down to these smaller schools, um women's sports has 202 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: really taken off. But you know, since we do associate 203 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: Title nine with athletics so much, I do want to 204 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: point out that there were huge benefits just an education, 205 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: things we probably take for granted. Now. Again from the 206 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: National Organization for Women, they point out that in nineteen 207 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: seventy two, women earned just seven percent of all law 208 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: degrees and nine percent of all medical degrees. Two thousand one, 209 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: women make up forty seven percent of law degrees and 210 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: forty of medical degrees. So you know, we do have 211 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: a lot of women in higher education and we need 212 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: to respect that. Title nine helped us do that as well. 213 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: Now as you can imagine, in the very tricky politics 214 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: of higher education in particular and even just you know, 215 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: public education, enforcing Title nine isn't always an easy thing 216 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: to do because when it comes to especially athletic money, um, 217 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, athletic directors and apartments are not uh I 218 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: kind of want to hands off situation. It seems like 219 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: they're not they're not really into the government meddling with 220 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: with what they do. So in situations where you have 221 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Title nine whistleblowers who come out and say, look, you know, 222 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: these these male coaches are being favored more than female coaches, 223 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: were not offering enough scholarships to women, etcetera, etcetera. Um, 224 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: there has been some backlash for those whistleblowers, but the 225 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: law has actually built in provisions to protect those whistleblowers right, 226 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: and that comes from the two thousand five Supreme Court 227 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: case Jackson versus the Birmingham Board of Education UH that 228 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: dealt with the case in which a high school girls 229 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: basketball coach who was male, said he lost his job 230 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: because he complained about the different allocations of resources between 231 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: the girls and the boys teams, things like the girls 232 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: weren't getting as much time to practice in the gym, 233 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: they didn't have, you know, the same kind of money 234 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: that the boys had to spend, and just by you know, 235 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: bringing that to the school's attention, he said he lost 236 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: his job. So the Supreme Court determined that not only 237 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: did the law provide for that equal allocation of resources, 238 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: it also had protection for the people who blew the 239 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: whistle and said, hey, things aren't equal here. So since 240 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: that case passed, there's been quite a few few cases 241 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: where people say I lost my job because I said something, 242 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: And one of the biggest cases involved a settlement of 243 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: nineteen million dollars, and so legal scholars are pretty pretty 244 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: pleased with this new development because now they know that 245 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: schools have more of a impetus to just pay their 246 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: coaches equally, because if a female coach or a male 247 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: coach somehow determines that, you know, things are in equal 248 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: in terms of salary, or if things are just equal 249 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: in terms of the allocation of resources, a settlement from 250 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: a lawsuit is going to cost them much more than 251 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: just doing things right the first time. Right. But as 252 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: you can imagine, there has been kind of a backlash 253 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: to the backlash, if you will, uh, because you know, 254 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: trying right, cutting a check for you know, nineteen million 255 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: dollars for an athletic director who says that she was 256 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: fired based on UM whistle blowing in sex discrimination UM 257 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: is mind boggling to some officials at these schools and 258 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: in these athletic departments. And some people are still arguing 259 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: that Title nine, really, while it might be beneficial for women, 260 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: is hurting men's sports. For instance. UM. I think about 261 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: a month ago, there was a story that came out 262 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: kind of around the same time as the World Cup 263 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: UM when the College Sports Council released the study saying 264 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: that Title nine was really hurting men's sports, especially men's soccer, 265 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: and their claim was the only fifty nine percent of 266 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Division one programs, which we mentioned earlier, Division one programs 267 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: are pretty heavily involved, especially in women's sports. Uh. The 268 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: College Sports Council claim that only fift Division one programs 269 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: offered men's soccer compared with of them offering women's soccer 270 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: as a way to comply with Title nine. Now, the 271 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: n C Double A and the Women's Sports Foundation have 272 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: responded and said, that's a pretty skewed way of looking 273 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: at those statistics, the College Sports Council's study, because what 274 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: those Division one programs UH probably have is football, so 275 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,359 Speaker 1: they might be allocating more money to their football team 276 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: then and then kind of short changing the soccer team. 277 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: So it's more just about what the individual school is choosing, 278 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: and you know, the law does not dictate, you know, 279 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: you can only offer football and not soccer. You can 280 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: offer both as long as there are equitable resources for 281 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: women who want to play sports as well. So that 282 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: study about the Division one programs garnered a response from 283 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: the n C Double A and the Women's Sports Foundation, 284 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: who claimed that that was a pretty skewed way of 285 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: looking at the statistics that you know, it was hurting 286 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: men's sports because there were so few soccer programs. Because 287 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: in Division one, which was what this College Sports Council 288 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: was looking at, uh, you've got football. You know, these 289 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: other divisions may have these strong football programs, and the 290 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: individual schools are making the choice to invest in the 291 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: football programs. And they made the point the title nine 292 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: does not dictate, you know, you can offer football and 293 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: not soccer. You know, the school is the ones that 294 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: make that choice of you know, we're choosing to have 295 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: a football program that may come at the expense of 296 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: a soccer program, right because in Division three schools, where 297 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: football is much less of a big business, of the 298 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: schools offered men's soccer teams in two thousand and eight 299 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, according to that same College Sports Council's 300 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: study UM, which is actually up from eight one percent 301 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: about ten years ago, and among women's team the increase 302 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: was from seventy eight to So, like you said, Molly, 303 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: a lot of it just goes back to, you know, 304 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: colleges choosing which sports um to allocate their resources to. 305 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: And as you said, and as you said, earlier that 306 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: UH individual schools don't like that government meddling. Maybe if 307 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: they had their druthers, they would put a lot of 308 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: money into men's soccer and men's football, but that's what 309 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: oftenly led to the women's teams getting short change. So 310 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about how UM Title nine 311 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: is enforced. They're basically three requirements that that are going 312 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: to be looked at in terms of Title nine. Yes, 313 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: the Department of Education uses a three part test, one 314 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: of which is whether or not the proportion of female 315 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: athletes is the same as a proportion of female students, UM, 316 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: whether or not an institution has a history and continued 317 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: practice of expanding athletics programs for women, or demonstrate that 318 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: women's athletic programs fully and effectively accommodate the interest of 319 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: current and prospective female students. But under the Bush administration 320 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: in two thousand five, there was a new policy that 321 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: came up dealing with the third element of that UM 322 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: Department of Education tests that was kind of controversial for 323 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: UH proponents of Title nine, and that policy change allowed 324 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: institutions to assess whether or not non athletic program fully 325 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: and effectively accommodated the interests of current and perspective female 326 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: students by sending out an electronic survey to their students 327 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: and having the women say, yes, I think that there 328 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: are enough sports offered at this school, or no, I 329 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: don't think there are enough sports offered at this school. 330 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: And proponents of Title nine said, WHOA, that is very 331 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: very flimsy data to offer us to say whether or 332 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: not a schools in compliance with it. But the Obama 333 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: administration recently went back and said it, guess what we're 334 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: gonna do away with that. So mixing this policy was 335 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: not a good news to everyone. To some people it 336 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: was like, yes, now we can look at more realistic 337 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: ways of determining interest for girls on campus. Other people 338 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: were like, we don't know what else to do. This 339 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: is just ridiculous. We're coming towards a system where Title 340 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: nine is gonna mean quotas. And we've talked before Christian 341 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: about how quotas are kind of a you know, slippery slope. 342 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: People don't love the idea of quotas in terms of 343 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: making sure that women are involved. Right and now, as 344 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: women are increasingly making up a larger proportion of college 345 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,239 Speaker 1: students in the US, some people have even questioned, you know, 346 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: whether or not Title nine kind of needs to be 347 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: reined in a little bit to give more opportunity to men. 348 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: But that is something you know, that will we will 349 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of let develop on its own, and it will 350 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: be interesting to track how that goes. But I think 351 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: at this point, UM, well, of course, we don't want 352 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: athletics or educational opportunities for men or women to be 353 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: hamstrung by government policy. There is evidence that Title nine 354 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: has been beneficial by and large, um over the past 355 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: thirty nine years for girls and women in the US. Right. 356 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: A large body of research shows that sports are associated 357 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: with all sorts of benefits, like lower teenage pregnancy rates, 358 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: better grades, and higher self esteem. But up until two 359 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: thousand ten, people didn't know if that was correlation or causation. 360 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: Was it possible that the girls who did have these 361 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: lower pregnancy rates, better grades, and higher self esteem just 362 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: had things like parents that were supporting them. Was it 363 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: just you know, personal qualities that they just brought to it. 364 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: But now there have been two separate studies that show 365 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: that team sports results in lifelong improvements, educational work, and 366 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: health prospects. Yeah, there was an article UM in New 367 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: York Times by Tara Parker Pope detailing these two studies, 368 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: the first of which is by Betsy Stevenson, who was 369 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: an economist at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, 370 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: and she used a complex analysis to show that increasing 371 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: girls force participation in fact has a direct effect on 372 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: women's education and employment, and she says that changes set 373 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: in motion by Title nine explained about twenty percent of 374 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: the increase in women's education and about fort in the 375 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: rise and employment for twenty five to thirty four year 376 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: old women now. The second study was done by Robert Kastner, 377 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: who is a professor at the University of Illinois and Chicago, 378 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: and his study looked at weather Title nine had made 379 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: a difference in women's long term help. So he looked 380 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: at women who had been in high school in the 381 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies when Title nine was taking effect against women 382 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: from earlier years, and he controlled all sorts of influences 383 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: like age, changing, diets, etcetera. And he looked at their 384 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: health outcomes and found that the women who had gotten 385 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: the chance to participate in Title nine were far healthier 386 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: and uh had a seven percent lower risk of obesity 387 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: twenty to twenty five years later than the women who 388 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: had not been subject to Title nine. Yeah, and uh 389 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: Tara Parker Pope points out that while seven percent does 390 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: not sound like a very huge number, no other public 391 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: health program can claim similar success in terms of curbing obesity. 392 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: And Parker Pope ends her article by saying that Title 393 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: nine still has a ways to go. I mean that 394 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: far more girls and women could be involved in playing sports, um, 395 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: but there's still more boys playing sports. So she comes 396 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: out sort of on the pro Title nine side. Whereas, 397 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, there are a lot of people who 398 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: don't want that Title nine oversight when they're making plans 399 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: about who's going to play what sport. So while there 400 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: might be some controversy today um in terms of the 401 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: future of Title nine and how heavily it should be enforced, 402 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: whether we should dial it down, whether it should continue, 403 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: it's it's marched forward. I don't think that anyone can 404 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: disagree when you look at the statistics charting the progress 405 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: of women in education and in athletics and say that 406 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: Title nine was not a positive step for women and 407 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: also for men, Because to me, I think that anything 408 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: that benefits women getting on equal footing with men is 409 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: a good thing. You know, we need to have as 410 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: many women as men in education, teaching our kids, raising 411 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: the young, coaching, whatever. You know. I think that a 412 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: balance is good. And you know that one of the 413 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: sources we were looking at did say that one of 414 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: the biggest things that can change a guy's mind about 415 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: traditional gender roles might be seeing a woman, you know, 416 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: kick some but on a soccer field, or to you know, 417 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: a woman who's kicking your butt in in class on 418 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: a field if you're a coach of your team. Yeah, 419 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: so I do think like you said, it's a it's 420 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: a good thing. Happy belated birthday Title nine and thanks 421 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: Bernie Sandler. So if you have stories about how Title 422 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: nine has affected you in your life, we'd love to 423 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: hear them. And uh, the email address to send that 424 00:24:53,520 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. To 425 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: speaking of our email address, I have an email here 426 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: from Mark in England. And Noticeiz said England and not 427 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: Britain because Mark had quote a tiny quibble over my 428 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: quote unquote British accent that Claire wrote about I know, 429 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: not the most famous email I think we've ever gotten. 430 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: And he says I've spoken to the Prime Minister, the 431 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: Queen and all the gentlemen in funny hats um. He said, 432 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: I'll stop that now. Oh, we've got so many emails 433 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: that told you not to stop, so I think you 434 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: have to read the whole email in your accident. I 435 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: don't think you want me to do that. So he 436 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: said that while all of England is quite happy for 437 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: me to borrow the accent, I have to give it 438 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: its proper name. He says. What you're doing is an 439 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: English accent. There's no such thing as a British accent, 440 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: as Britain encompasses Scotland, England and Wales. We're prepared to 441 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: let it go this time, but if you insist in 442 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: calling your English accent a British accent, me, the Queen, 443 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister, Prince Harry, Prince William, et cetera, at nauseam. Okay, 444 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: I kind of improved there for a second. Sorry, Mark, 445 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: we'll be compelled to come and recolonize you forth with. 446 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: We know you'd probably prefer this anyway, as you haven't 447 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: achieved much since independent, well apart from those moon landings, 448 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: which we all thought would jolly nice and podcast. Mark, Hey, 449 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: come on, I haven't heard about any uh any great 450 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: British podcasts, I mean English podcast and I'm I'm asking 451 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: for a royal but whipping now. Um. Also, if you 452 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind saying, how do you minium and hubs properly 453 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: do so? Thank you Mark a funny email that mayor 454 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: but thank you to everyone who wrote in in defense 455 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: of of Kristen's lapses in voicing. I've got a reading 456 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: list from from indiedre to close things out. Uh Deetro 457 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: has a very ambitious reading list. She is gonna be 458 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: tackling The Brothers, caramuts Off, Don't Kotel, and Lord of 459 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: the Rings. She also writes that she plans on seeing 460 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: as many Shakespeare plays as I can get my hands on, 461 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: and hopefully seeing a few rereading the Harry Potter series 462 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: and rereading Jane Austin novels. So keep the list coming. 463 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: Even if summer ends and you hear this months from now, 464 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: We'll take your list anytime and again. The email addresses 465 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can 466 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: also get in on the action on Facebook and Twitter, 467 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: and during the week, please check out our blog. It's 468 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: called Stuff. Mom Never told You and you can find 469 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: it at how stuff works dot com. Want more how 470 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house. Stuff 471 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: works dot Com home page. Brought to you by the 472 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, Are you