Speaker 1: You're listening to The buck Sexton Show podcastle make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome everybody to the buck
Speaker 1: Sexton Show. I have with me the author of Charade,
Speaker 1: the COVID Laves that Crushed a Nation, and a general
Speaker 1: columnist the closest thing that West Virginia has right now
Speaker 1: to Ernest Hemingway, Mister David Marcus is with us for
Speaker 1: this episode. David Marcus, good to see you, sir.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Mat It's nice to see you.
Speaker 1: You know, somebody asked me the other day this, I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering what you think what would happen if we
Speaker 1: had another, let's just say, a really bad flu season.
Speaker 1: Would you know, because you wrote your book on COVID,
Speaker 1: do you think that most of what was done before
Speaker 1: would be done again? You think they go back to it, not.
Speaker 3: Exactly in the same way. I think that. I think
Speaker 3: the American people have become a little too suspicious for that,
Speaker 3: especially sort of in red states. I mean, are there
Speaker 3: are parts of in Park Slope, Brooklyn if like the
Speaker 3: Democrats were like put your mask on, stay inside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they would love that. They would, you know,
Speaker 2: feel Marley superior again and it would be great. No, don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think it would work out exactly that way.
Speaker 3: But I do, you know, to the rest of your question,
Speaker 3: I do worry that COVID was a kind of dress rehearsal,
Speaker 3: whether intentionally or not, to sort of see ken society
Speaker 3: operate if everyone just stays home. And as I wrote
Speaker 3: in a column recently, sadly, the answer was sort of yes.
Speaker 2: And that's pretty scary looking forward.
Speaker 1: I mean, I will say that, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I wasn't married, I didn't have kids during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So now when I when I look at things, I
Speaker 1: look back at it. I mean, it was remarkable in
Speaker 1: so many ways, but there were parts of it where
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I guess I just get to
Speaker 1: stay home, not socialized, not go anywhere, and order food
Speaker 1: and watch Netflix and play video games. Like I took
Speaker 1: up PlayStation again because I had a lot of time
Speaker 1: on my hands when I wasn't doing radio.
Speaker 3: There was a moment I remember, like in the first
Speaker 3: week or two, because I believe I had gotten my
Speaker 3: son like a Nintendo Switch for Christmas, like a couple
Speaker 3: months before and there was like a run on Nintendo switches.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that, Like everyone everyone ran out because
Speaker 3: like this was the device that you could have that
Speaker 3: would like you know, oh, it was awful.
Speaker 2: You remember zoom Cocktails? Was that anything?
Speaker 3: Is there ever been a worse social event than the
Speaker 3: history of mankind than zoom Cocktails?
Speaker 2: It was so horrible And in Jumane it was a.
Speaker 1: Horrible book, we were told that we would never shake
Speaker 1: hands again. You remember this like that, like they were like, ah,
Speaker 1: handshaking is gone, and you know what's remarkable. I was
Speaker 1: doing I'm doing some research for a book. It's not
Speaker 1: a COVID book, but I was looking back at some
Speaker 1: of the stuff that happened in twenty twenty for it people.
Speaker 1: I don't think people even remember this that there was
Speaker 1: a period where they were actually telling everybody that first
Speaker 1: of all, they said don't get masks, which you remember
Speaker 1: there was that don't buy masks. So they told that
Speaker 1: everybody stop it. And Fauci's like doesn't really work. There
Speaker 1: was even CNN was doing stories in February of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Masking actually might make it more likely for you to
Speaker 1: get COVID because you'll change your risk parameters for what
Speaker 1: you're willing to do, thinking of more protection than you do,
Speaker 1: and you'll touch your face. And it went from that to,
Speaker 1: as we know, the complete insanity of like, if you're
Speaker 1: a good person, that means when you're hiking the rocky
Speaker 1: mountains alone, you mask up. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Miss step? No, you missed a step buck.
Speaker 3: There was a step in between, because obviously they were
Speaker 3: completely reversing themselves and or being like utter hypocrites about it.
Speaker 3: So remember how they explained that they said, oh well,
Speaker 3: we were actually wary of having you masking because we
Speaker 3: were worried we were going to run out for first responders,
Speaker 3: so don't leave.
Speaker 2: Remember that.
Speaker 1: Oh no, they had to lie to explain why they
Speaker 1: were lying, because the actual truth is, as I think
Speaker 1: people have started to figure out what they said initially
Speaker 1: was the case, which is that masks were a joke
Speaker 1: and weren't going to do anything. But then when they
Speaker 1: decided that masks had to be real, and they had
Speaker 1: already said, you know, had to be mandatory, and they
Speaker 1: said that they had changed their minds on this. They
Speaker 1: would rather light their credibility on fire than go against
Speaker 1: the religious ritual of masking that was created for really
Speaker 1: just mask compliance and mass conditioning. So no, man, I'm
Speaker 1: I feel like there's only a few of us who
Speaker 1: really Maybe it's the people that fled New York. I mean,
Speaker 1: you live in uh Am, I allowed to say on
Speaker 1: the air, do you tell people where you are? Just
Speaker 1: like he's in West Virginia. Yes, So that's pretty that's
Speaker 1: pretty free. I'm down in Florida, which it was a
Speaker 1: very common choice people fleeing New York. And I think
Speaker 1: the New Yorkers who fled more than anybody else because
Speaker 1: we got the brunt of it in the beginning too.
Speaker 1: We are all still traumatized by the other sides lunacy,
Speaker 1: not by COVID. Like I was fine with COVID. I
Speaker 1: was audi. I wasn't even worried about COVID. I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even understand whatever it's so freaked out about.
Speaker 1: Pretty early on, like April of twenty twenty, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't get it, But my god, people lost their
Speaker 1: minds and here we are. It hasn't been that long
Speaker 1: we forget all about it. So I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't think the lessons have really been learned that's mine.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that upsets me. That's why I still
Speaker 1: talk about it. One there's no accountability now a book.
Speaker 3: And I hear you, you know, I listen to you
Speaker 3: guys when I'm picking my kid up from school, and
Speaker 3: I appreciate the fact that you do that. It's really
Speaker 3: the reason that I wrote the book, and it's reason
Speaker 3: that I wrote the book in real time. I mean,
Speaker 3: the book only goes from February of twenty twenty to
Speaker 3: write after the twenty twenty election, because I was writing
Speaker 3: it as I was covering the story for the Federalists,
Speaker 3: and I wanted it to be that fresh. And it's funny,
Speaker 3: like I'm now talking to a couple of people about
Speaker 3: maybe trying to do something in another realm with the book,
Speaker 3: and so I've been having to go back through it
Speaker 3: and just like you said, like there's so many of
Speaker 3: these things that like I just forgot happened, and I'm
Speaker 3: really glad that I wrote them down at the time,
Speaker 3: because I think we kind.
Speaker 2: Of want to forget.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also sense that there's and this is
Speaker 1: a little bit of what I'm I'm what I'm chasing
Speaker 1: down in the research that I'm doing these days for
Speaker 1: a project I'm working on, and it's just it's clear
Speaker 1: that there was something that the whole COVID phenomenon for people,
Speaker 1: and the way they responded to it, it became it
Speaker 1: was filling an emotional space for them, like an emotional
Speaker 1: psychological space, a deeply attached to emotional space. Because otherwise
Speaker 1: the people who were telling me, this is the thing
Speaker 1: that's always so remarkable to me, the people who were
Speaker 1: telling me you're a horrible person, your advice is killing people.
Speaker 1: Why are you so stupid? And there were thousands of
Speaker 1: them over the course the pandemic, you know, tweeting at me.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you know how many of them have sense?
Speaker 1: And even for things like schools need to be open,
Speaker 1: you know, like September twenty twenty, I'm like, the school
Speaker 1: should be open. This is insane, even those people, whatever
Speaker 1: the issue may be, vaccines don't stop the spread, which
Speaker 1: I think you can probably I don't know why you
Speaker 1: kicked off YouTube for that. They still pretend like that's
Speaker 1: not that is a fact. That is a hundred as
Speaker 1: we all know, one hundred percent of fact. Not a
Speaker 1: single person that I can think of e seeing not
Speaker 1: a single person has come back to me since then, online, email,
Speaker 1: whatever and said, wow, you're right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Not one well well look I mean but you I mean,
Speaker 3: you answered your own question there book. The reason that
Speaker 3: you're not going to get that, at least not in
Speaker 3: the next twenty years is exactly what you said.
Speaker 2: That there was so much emotional investment, almost.
Speaker 3: Religious investment, and living by these precepts, living by these rules.
Speaker 3: This is the right and moral and just thing to do.
Speaker 3: You know, wear your masks, stay inside social distance, you know.
Speaker 3: And I think that especially for people on the left
Speaker 3: who lack any kind of like actual religion, this became
Speaker 3: something really valuable in their lives and really powerful that could,
Speaker 3: you know, for better or worse, attach them to something
Speaker 3: bigger than than which is a noble goal.
Speaker 2: It just in this case it was it was quite
Speaker 2: wrong headed.
Speaker 1: I want to also ask you, David, about the news
Speaker 1: of this week, which was the Hunter Biden plea deal,
Speaker 1: which you may have seen on off, on off now
Speaker 1: off as we speak, and how this factors into people
Speaker 1: really having Here's I don't want you to answer this
Speaker 1: question yet because I have to have a word from
Speaker 1: our sponsor, but I want to put the question out
Speaker 1: there for everyone to think about, for you to think about.
Speaker 1: People approach me now listeners, they approach me and and
Speaker 1: they have a seething disdain for a whole range of
Speaker 1: institutions in this country. And I'm increasingly in a position
Speaker 1: where I can't even never mind defend them, which I
Speaker 1: really can't and don't, but I kind of just say
Speaker 1: have at it, you know, like I just I feel
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Speaker 1: ninety percent off. All right, what do you think, David institutions,
Speaker 1: things like the FBI, the c the d o J,
Speaker 1: the CIA, the EPA, the good on the list defensible?
Speaker 1: What do we do about these places?
Speaker 2: These are very hard questions. I want to say.
Speaker 3: In the fall of last year, I had just started
Speaker 3: writing for The Daily Mail, who I write for fairly
Speaker 3: regularly now, and they reached out to me after I'd
Speaker 3: only written there a couple of times, and one of
Speaker 3: my editors was like, do you want to write an
Speaker 3: article a column basically saying like, maybe it's time to
Speaker 3: get rid of the FBI? And I thought, boy, that's
Speaker 3: an awfully big thing. To say, I don't know, like,
Speaker 3: can we talk this through? And we talked it through.
Speaker 3: And there was the Trump raid at Mara Lago, and
Speaker 3: how different that was from how the Bidens have been treated.
Speaker 3: There was you know, spying on Catholics. There was taking
Speaker 3: down license plate numbers at school board meetings where parents
Speaker 3: were asking perfectly reasonable questions about their children's education and
Speaker 3: whether they're being exposed to appropriate material at school. Long
Speaker 3: story short, I wound up writing the column because when
Speaker 3: I tabulated at all, I said, this is not sustainable. Now, look,
Speaker 3: I hope it can be fixed. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: we do need some form of federal law enforcement. But
Speaker 3: there's no trust in the FBI right now, and the
Speaker 3: FBI hasn't earned any trust, So what are we supposed
Speaker 3: to do about that?
Speaker 1: I do think it's also interesting when you look at
Speaker 1: the support that RFK Junior has gotten in this election cycle,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit tight in what we're talking about
Speaker 1: with how we now are as a country supposed to
Speaker 1: pretend that all the COVID stuff and FAUCI and the
Speaker 1: mandatory shots and the vaccine passports and the you know,
Speaker 1: Biden administration mandating everybody has to get the shot in
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court having to overturn it him. What an
Speaker 1: absolute disaster, What a monstrosity they really engaged in. But
Speaker 1: our FK. Junior goes beyond that because he's he's really
Speaker 1: taking it to the FDA as well as the CDC
Speaker 1: and the NIH and all the rest of them. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you can't trust that health authorities in
Speaker 1: a country that feels like a whole I feel like
Speaker 1: that's a level beyond right, like it used to be
Speaker 1: that everybody trusted their doctor.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, it is, and I think that it's
Speaker 3: a very similar story to the FBI and to the
Speaker 3: Department of Justice. You know, there was this whole sort
Speaker 3: of like post Watergate idea in regard to at least
Speaker 3: DOJ and these things like, Okay, there has to be
Speaker 3: a firewall here, right, nobody from the elected administration is
Speaker 3: allowed to have any influence over the Attorney general whatsoever.
Speaker 3: And we then applied that to doctor Fauci and the NIH,
Speaker 3: and it never made any sense. And it's not constitutional, frankly.
Speaker 3: I mean that's we don't elect people to hand their
Speaker 3: powers over to chosen experts who are in bed with
Speaker 3: all kinds of different organizations international and domestic right and
Speaker 3: that's what we did. And so you know, one of
Speaker 3: the things that I like about the thing that I
Speaker 3: hear Ron DeSantis in particular talk about al I think
Speaker 3: Favek has talked about this significantly as well, is that
Speaker 3: we need to break that model. These are not independent
Speaker 3: agencies that just get to do whatever they want regardless
Speaker 3: of what voters think. There has to be accountability and
Speaker 3: hopefully if more Republicans get into power, will see that.
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Speaker 1: you on UFOs.
Speaker 2: Man? I don't know. I mean I was a big
Speaker 2: X Files fan. Love that show.
Speaker 1: Does it hold up?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Can I go back? I tried to watch The Matrix
Speaker 1: with the wife, usually because she had never seen it.
Speaker 1: I've seen it like twenty times. I think the Matrix
Speaker 1: movie is phenomenal even to this day, like it's still
Speaker 1: really really good. Could you go back and watch the
Speaker 1: X Files? You think?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I mean I have no I do think.
Speaker 2: I mean in part, I just think because it was so.
Speaker 3: Smartly written and there's good performances and those are those
Speaker 3: are things that sort of carry through.
Speaker 2: But I don't know UFOs, I.
Speaker 1: Think that Wait, can I just tell everybody at home before?
Speaker 1: I mean, they're having hearings on Capitol Hill about this
Speaker 1: and people are testifying under oath, like, so this is
Speaker 1: the thing I'm not I don't do There are other
Speaker 1: shows that they're like, oh, like Bigfoot and UFOs, like,
Speaker 1: that's not this show, it's not me. But when they're
Speaker 1: having depositions or hearings on Capitol Hill and people are
Speaker 1: swearing under oath that they saw something that the uf like,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, we got to deal with it,
Speaker 1: I think, so anyway, go ahead?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, Like most of what I've heard independent from
Speaker 3: news stories are the things for people who I've known
Speaker 3: in the military. And I don't know if you've heard
Speaker 3: these stories, but like I've known, you know, guys who
Speaker 3: were in the Air Force or you know, guys who
Speaker 3: are you know, sort of stationed at different places where
Speaker 3: they saw weird things that like they couldn't explain. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I think that that, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Buck you were in the CIA, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there's things.
Speaker 2: We have don't talk about, and maybe we don't know
Speaker 2: if it's a UFO or not. Is a good way
Speaker 2: to not have to.
Speaker 3: Talk about this thing that like and maybe the government
Speaker 3: shouldn't be talking about.
Speaker 2: I just don't know, man.
Speaker 1: Interesting, you take almost an agnostic position on the UFOs, right,
Speaker 1: Like you're not. You're not saying yes, you're not saying
Speaker 1: no no.
Speaker 3: And I'm also I've always been dubious about intelligent life
Speaker 3: on other planets, you know, for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 2: I mean one, you know, I guess as a Catholic,
Speaker 2: it would it would.
Speaker 3: Throw some kind of monkey wrench into at least the
Speaker 3: most basic understanding of Christian theology, although the Catholic Church
Speaker 3: has always been very good at being able to bring things.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a Jesuit who came up with
Speaker 3: the Big Bang theory, so science and the Catholic Church
Speaker 3: coexists very well. The bigger reason for me is just
Speaker 3: to me, it seems like such a bizarre confluence of
Speaker 3: events that led to human intelligence that it doesn't strike
Speaker 3: me as particularly likely that even in a universe as
Speaker 3: big as ours, those precise things happening over millions and
Speaker 3: millions of years all led to someone who I can
Speaker 3: you know, have a conversation about with the Yankees or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I also take this maybe different
Speaker 1: for sophical point of view on this from a lot
Speaker 1: of people, just you know, so I am very skeptical.
Speaker 1: Clay on a radio show as a believer, So we're
Speaker 1: Scolder and Mully or Mulley and Scolder or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I'm in the skeptic category here, and the audience that
Speaker 1: at least that writes in is overwhelmingly, you know, outrage
Speaker 1: that my skepticism over UFOs. And I sit here and
Speaker 1: I just say, I don't think that we need to
Speaker 1: think that there are UFOs and little green men to
Speaker 1: think that the world that we live in is still
Speaker 1: so far beyond beyond our comprehension understanding, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I just think that it almost
Speaker 1: makes it seem it's a simplification of what's out there
Speaker 1: in my mind to think that all there just must
Speaker 1: be like people like us out there well no, or
Speaker 1: you know, little green men, whatever it is. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: we face such interesting questions and quandaries here in the
Speaker 1: known world still that I don't think that we have
Speaker 1: to enter into like intergalactic travel for things to be interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just mine.
Speaker 3: The best, the best, the best evidence I've ever seen
Speaker 3: for the existence of aliens is Leo Messi. You know,
Speaker 3: I've watched Leo Messi do things on a soccer field
Speaker 3: that sometimes make me think Okay, he can't be a
Speaker 3: human being, but I mean that's aside from that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm skeptic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the Miami resident. Now he's joining the revolution
Speaker 1: down in Miami. So it's interesting stuff, Dave. I'll get
Speaker 1: you on on one more thing here, But before we
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Speaker 1: paid for by Palm Beach Research Group. So David, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you spend most You're just like a thoughtful guy.
Speaker 1: What do you spend your time thinking about? A lot
Speaker 1: these days? Like what's just like a top of mind
Speaker 1: thing for David Marcus to consider for the world.
Speaker 3: I've been given a lot of thought to the future
Speaker 3: of social media and especially sort of what I'm saying
Speaker 3: on Twitter.
Speaker 2: I think I sort of have the reputation of being
Speaker 2: an Elon.
Speaker 3: Musk basher, and I'm really not I applaud Musk for
Speaker 3: what I think he was trying to do with the platform.
Speaker 3: I really think that he thought that he could come
Speaker 3: in and say, Okay, we're going to have a really small,
Speaker 3: discrete set of rules and other than that.
Speaker 2: Let free speech rain.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, advertisers kind of made it
Speaker 3: that that wasn't going to work for them. You know,
Speaker 3: the Government of Australia is threatening to find Twitter or
Speaker 3: I guess it's X now five hundred thousand dollars a
Speaker 3: day if they find too much hate speech on it. So,
Speaker 3: I mean, all this stuff was sort of stacked up
Speaker 3: against him, and now we have this rebrand and now
Speaker 3: we have this notion of like he says he's going
Speaker 3: to do like an app of everything I guess modeled
Speaker 3: on the we chat app in China, where now this
Speaker 3: is going to involve your finances and your banking And
Speaker 3: these are questions that Americans and concernable conservatives, Americans in
Speaker 3: general need to think about, because what happens when your
Speaker 3: bank account starts interacting with content moderation, right, whether it's
Speaker 3: Must or anybody else, Like what happens when you've misgendered
Speaker 3: someone too many times and the bank decides, well, you
Speaker 3: don't have access to your money anymore. And we've seen
Speaker 3: it in Canada, we've seen it in the UK. So
Speaker 3: that's the kind of thing that really scares me these days,
Speaker 3: and I worry that, you know, it's the thing that
Speaker 3: happens with conservatives. We saw this with Kanye We've seen
Speaker 3: it a couple of times where it's like some influential
Speaker 3: celebrity says, wow, you know, conservatives are kind of cool,
Speaker 3: like they're okay, and conservers like, I love this guy,
Speaker 3: this guy's great, he's our new leader. Let's pay And
Speaker 3: it's like you got to slow your role on that,
Speaker 3: because it's not always the case, and I do worry
Speaker 3: that that Musk is asking us to accept some things
Speaker 3: in regard to censorship, to accept some things in regard
Speaker 3: to content moderation that I think conservatives need to be
Speaker 3: pretty skeptical of, even if he's going to give us all,
Speaker 3: you know, twenty five thousand dollars for posting on a site,
Speaker 3: which of course I won't take.
Speaker 1: But to take my point, well, when we share out
Speaker 1: this interview on Twitter, just make sure that Elon knows
Speaker 1: that I think he's amazing. So I don't get banned.
Speaker 1: But good luck to you, my friend.
Speaker 3: Good luck to be honestly buck And and I'll you know,
Speaker 3: I'll say this.
Speaker 2: It's it's something that you run into.
Speaker 3: It's something that I've run into in trying to write
Speaker 3: about this story, is that he's a player in the
Speaker 3: media now. So this is always a challenge for journalists
Speaker 3: who cover the media because look, there's just a lot
Speaker 3: of people in a position right now who don't want
Speaker 3: to cross Elon Musk. And as a writer, who's you know, look,
Speaker 3: my mantra is, if you're in power, I'm skeptical of you,
Speaker 3: I'm going to be critical of you, and you're never
Speaker 3: going to get a free pass, and it's been a
Speaker 3: challenge for me to cover Elon Musk because I think
Speaker 3: there are a lot of people who don't want to
Speaker 3: cross him right now.
Speaker 1: Fair point, David Marcus. Everybody follow him on the social
Speaker 1: media platforms that you have, and also look for his
Speaker 1: stuff in the Daily Mail and check out what's the
Speaker 1: name of the book again.
Speaker 2: David Charade, the covid Lies, the qust Nation.
Speaker 1: Good to see you, sir, Thanks for hanging out, Thanks
Speaker 1: for
Speaker 2: Having me a book