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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the Whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Jeff Sturtus of Whitetail Habitat

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Speaker 2: Solutions to discuss strategies for late season success for both

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Speaker 2: private and public land. All right, welcome to the Wired

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Speaker 2: to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light and

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Speaker 2: their Camel for Conservation initiative. If you're not familiar, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty on a cool A portion of every sale of

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Speaker 2: First Light's spector Whitetail Camel is given to the National

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Speaker 2: Deer Association to help with their mission to do good

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Speaker 2: things for deer and deer hunting, which I'm awfully thankful for.

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Speaker 2: So all that said, today's episode is all about the

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Speaker 2: late season, and it can be a great season if

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Speaker 2: you have the right plan in place and if you're

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Speaker 2: willing to do the work, push through the cold temps,

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Speaker 2: the long well not so long days, but a long

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Speaker 2: season getting you up to that point and My guest

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Speaker 2: today is a good friend, a great hunter, and a

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Speaker 2: wealth of information. Jeff Sturgis. He is the founder of

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Speaker 2: white Tail Habitat Solutions. He's written multiple books, he has

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Speaker 2: a tremendous YouTube channel. He just pumps out the videos

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Speaker 2: there like I can't believe. And he brings an interesting

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Speaker 2: perspective because I think a lot of people think of

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Speaker 2: Jeff as a private land kind of habitat manager expert,

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Speaker 2: and that is probably his not probably, It definitely is

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Speaker 2: the thing he does the very most, but he also

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Speaker 2: spends a lot of time hunting on public land too.

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Speaker 2: He has experience hunting different places that I think can

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Speaker 2: be relatable to any kind of deer hunter out there.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about today is how to

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Speaker 2: have success in the late season, yes on managed pieces

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Speaker 2: or yes on private land with ag whatever might be.

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Speaker 2: But also how to kill late season deer in the

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Speaker 2: big woods, how to kill late season deer in areas

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Speaker 2: where there's no management, where you're competing with other folks,

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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. So I think this is

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Speaker 2: going to be really valuable for a large number of you.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. I don't want to waste any

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Speaker 2: more of your time. I think we should just get

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Speaker 2: right into it. But first one thing, I just want

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Speaker 2: to take a second here to thank so many of

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Speaker 2: you for reaching out, sending me messages and comments and

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Speaker 2: emails and so many different notes of support and congratulations.

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Speaker 2: After getting my shot at the WY nine last week,

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Speaker 2: was very very thankful to have had that opportunity to

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Speaker 2: close the deal on that deer and end that hunt

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Speaker 2: and get redemption after what happened in October. So very

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Speaker 2: thankful for that, and very thankful for all of your

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Speaker 2: support along the way, for you following the story over

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Speaker 2: the years and sticking with me through through the episode

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Speaker 2: of the Downs. So all that said, let's kick off

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Speaker 2: this month of December in style with a great conversation

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Speaker 2: here with mister Jeff Sturgison. All right, we are here

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Speaker 2: now with one of my most frequent return guests on

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Speaker 2: the podcast and one of my favorite guests on the

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Speaker 2: show and a good friend, mister Jeff Sturgis. Welcome back, Jeff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great to be here, say frequently spend over

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Speaker 3: a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you were one of my

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Speaker 2: first ten guests. Like I think you're in the first

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Speaker 2: maybe even the first four episodes ever, So that's that's

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Speaker 2: going back ten years at least. And I think we were,

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Speaker 2: you know, working on some articles together and talking for

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Speaker 2: a number of years before that too, So it's it's

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Speaker 2: crazy how fast it all goes. Doesn't feel like it was.

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Speaker 3: That long ago, but it was back in the writing

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Speaker 3: days or writing a whole bunch. Yeah, I'd written up

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Speaker 3: to one hundred and seventy eighty articles in a year,

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Speaker 3: and then when i'd watched those Google Google analytics, I'd

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Speaker 3: see a notice come through from Wired to Hunt that

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Speaker 3: they something I never knew what it meant, and then

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I realized that you had this

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Speaker 3: wired to Hunt thing, and you'd share articles that I'd

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Speaker 3: written during the week in your Friday Friday Post or

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Speaker 3: whatever it was. Yeah, that's where that came from. And

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Speaker 3: so I knew of the post going out before I

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Speaker 3: think I even talked to you or met you at

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Speaker 3: that time.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, cool, It's funny how that those things bring

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Speaker 2: folks together. I'm sure glad that I don't remember if

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Speaker 2: if you reached out to me or if I reached

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Speaker 2: out to you, but however it happened I'm glad it happened.

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Speaker 3: It was over ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so so yeah, all that said, thank you for

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Speaker 2: making the time. I know you're coming off of the trip,

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Speaker 2: busy with hunts and all that. So the thought I

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Speaker 2: had for today, Jeff, is to is to cover a

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Speaker 2: topic we have not covered yet in detail. And I

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Speaker 2: know in the past we've talked a lot about habitat,

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Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about some of your thoughts around

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Speaker 2: predicting timing of deer activity. We've talked about patterning deer.

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Speaker 2: We've covered a lot of ground, but we've never done

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Speaker 2: a full episode like this talking specifically about the late season. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and coming into December here, I thought this would be

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Speaker 2: a perfect time to do that. So my first my

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Speaker 2: first question for you, Jeff, is about how you feel

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Speaker 2: at this time of year. So bear with me on

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Speaker 2: this when I explain what I'm thinking here. Sometimes some years,

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Speaker 2: when I get to December, I start to get like

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Speaker 2: antsy and nervous because if I've got a bunch of

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Speaker 2: tags still in my pocket, I'll wake up in the

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Speaker 2: morning just wedding like It'll just be like a little

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Speaker 2: bit uneasy. How do you feel if you get to

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Speaker 2: this time of year and you've got unfilled tags. Are

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Speaker 2: you Are you starting to get worried that we're nearing

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Speaker 2: the end or do you still have a lot of confidence.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that uneasiness for you has gone away over

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Speaker 3: the last couple of days.

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Speaker 2: Yes, things are feeling better now.

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Speaker 3: And I think I think that depends. And I've had

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Speaker 3: a few twenty ten, twenty twenty. We're both bad years

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Speaker 3: for different reasons. And missus wounded animal just it was

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Speaker 3: it was a grind, and it really gets to this

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Speaker 3: time of year. Most of the time, it's enjoyable. It's relaxing.

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Speaker 3: I love going out. Jen's going out tonight, she's going

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Speaker 3: to watch a food source and I went out last night.

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Speaker 3: And it's more even We're not getting up at four

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Speaker 3: and driving fifty minutes to Wisconsin to go sit in

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Speaker 3: a rut stand after walking forty minutes up the hill

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Speaker 3: to get into a blind and stamp it's and sitting

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Speaker 3: in a tree stand and having to be eighteen degrees.

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Speaker 3: So there is such a contrast, and I think it

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Speaker 3: does boil down to tags and it's not. And you know,

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Speaker 3: you and I hunt similar in some ways as far

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Speaker 3: as like you shot your target buck and you had

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Speaker 3: that that buck in mind. And I had a buck

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Speaker 3: last year bow that I was after here in Minnesota,

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Speaker 3: and I shot some nice bucks already, but it was

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Speaker 3: I hunted till the last day I could hunt them

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Speaker 3: last year. But I still had that sense of satisfaction

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Speaker 3: that I shot something. And so when you don't have tags,

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Speaker 3: it's it's more of a it's not even boy, I

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Speaker 3: haven't shot something. It's more when when you have that

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Speaker 3: pocket full of tags, it's more like, boy, just what

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Speaker 3: could I have done different? What decisions could I have

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Speaker 3: made different? Never worried about a dead animal. It's more

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Speaker 3: I just it's a quest and it's a journey. But

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Speaker 3: when you had those tag fill I shot my target

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Speaker 3: buck in Minnesota on my second one, and Wisconsin, and

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Speaker 3: then we just went to Pennsylvania and shot a beautiful

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Speaker 3: one on public land. It's kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you really can step back and enjoy this time of year,

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Speaker 3: and it's more of a relaxing hunt. To me, it's

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Speaker 3: more about numbers of sets, just when you can get

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Speaker 3: out there and enjoy. We sit in blinds more often

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Speaker 3: this time of year, watching food sources still get some

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Speaker 3: the perfect Rot stand Second Rot morning sets and so,

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Speaker 3: but it's more at a leisurely pace, if that makes sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: such a contrast from I feel personally right now. I

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Speaker 3: feel pretty good. I feel I can relax this this

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Speaker 3: time of year and have some tags that have been

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Speaker 3: filled and have had some great memories too with family

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Speaker 3: and friends. So it's a good time right now.

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Speaker 2: Now. Now, what do you think about just your chances

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Speaker 2: to still have this Not specifically like you this year,

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Speaker 2: but I mean if someone's listening and they're going into

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Speaker 2: December and they have an unfilled tag and they're thinking

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Speaker 2: to themselves, you know, should I be like, is the

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Speaker 2: best what I'm getting at? Is the best behind me

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Speaker 2: when I get into December? Or do you look at

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Speaker 2: December as some people call it December and things actually

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Speaker 2: can be pretty darn good still moving forward? How do

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Speaker 2: you feel about that?

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Speaker 3: I love the Second Rot, especially where we're up here

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Speaker 3: in the Upper Midwest where we can plan on some

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Speaker 3: scrapes being opened up first part of December and some

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Speaker 3: bucks really moving acting like they did during the middle

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Speaker 3: of the Rot. Also late season food sources. I wrote

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Speaker 3: some on the back on the board just to help

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Speaker 3: me with my memory. But really, when you're looking at

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Speaker 3: clearcuts on public land and that diversity of habitat where

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Speaker 3: highland meets lowland, old forest meet young forest, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of opportunity for browsing deer during the daylight. And

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Speaker 3: you look at box that have run ragged for three

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Speaker 3: weeks straight and then all of a sudden, now they

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Speaker 3: have to replenish that energy that's been lost, and so

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Speaker 3: to me, there's a lot of opportunity this year. It's

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Speaker 3: a lot different. Back in the late eighties nineties when

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Speaker 3: I was hunting Thumb Area, Michigan, we're in ten years.

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Speaker 3: During that time, there was one year where I saw

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Speaker 3: probably twenty five twenty six different bucks leading up to

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Speaker 3: gun season. All those ten years combined, I saw three

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Speaker 3: antler bucks. After gun season through the end of the year.

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Speaker 3: Lots of deer, lops of dose, but we weren't in

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Speaker 3: the areas that we had small little woodlots an acre here,

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Speaker 3: five acres here, ten acres there, a corner of a

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Speaker 3: field here, and all those box were back in high

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Speaker 3: stem count areas, more remote locations. They've been pounded by hunters.

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Speaker 3: So it's cool about public land. You can go out

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Speaker 3: and find those areas you need to get away from

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Speaker 3: where you'd normally hunt potentially for a rout. But then

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Speaker 3: at the same time, on private land, if you have

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Speaker 3: the right conditions, you can build it. So either one can.

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Speaker 3: We have some of our best hunts third day a

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Speaker 3: gun season, fourth day, seventh day, ninth day, all the

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Speaker 3: way out through Muzzli order in the first part of December.

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Speaker 3: Some of our best hunts have been during those times

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Speaker 3: where we see a good number of deer and we

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Speaker 3: still have an opportunity at what bucks are remaining. So

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Speaker 3: I'm full hoped when we get into this time of year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you make you make a lot of good points there.

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Speaker 2: And something you mentioned that being, you know, find this

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Speaker 2: different kind of habitat on public land, like you can

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Speaker 2: still have late season success on public land, where I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people assume it's a lot harder

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Speaker 2: and assume, you know, the late season's kind of a

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Speaker 2: private land food plot game. Sure, but you were just

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania on public land and killed a really nice

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Speaker 2: buck in late November. It was that kind of a

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Speaker 2: late season type set up in any kind of way

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Speaker 2: or how did you pull that off? Because that feels

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Speaker 2: kind of late to me.

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Speaker 3: It is, and that was shot quite a few bucks

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Speaker 3: out there this time of year because it always opens up.

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Speaker 3: The used to open up the Monday after Thanksgiving. Now

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Speaker 3: it's the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I was there in twenty

220
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Speaker 3: nineteen when it opened up the first Saturday ever, and

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Speaker 3: then you had Sunday off, and then I shot my

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Speaker 3: buck on Monday. Now they can hunt Sundays. But really

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Speaker 3: there's a combination of things going on. For one, we're

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Speaker 3: looking for people pressure and people hot zones and trying

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Speaker 3: to get in the middle of campgrounds, boat access along

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Speaker 3: where we hunt, a reservoir, parking areas, main trail systems.

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Speaker 3: And then you're looking for if it's big open woods,

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Speaker 3: you might have a good hunt in the afternoon if

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Speaker 3: they're coming up and hitting acorns, beach nuts or cherry,

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Speaker 3: depending on what they're hitting. That time of year. Right

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Speaker 3: now is acorns everywhere. But we're looking for a high

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Speaker 3: stem count. And so it's not that the bucks are

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Speaker 3: on the sell facing slopes soaking up the warmth. It's

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Speaker 3: the self facing slopes in a national forest are the

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Speaker 3: ones that have a higher vegetation leve or a stem

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Speaker 3: count per acre, and so we're gravitating to stem count

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Speaker 3: per acre and then trying to put yourself in position

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Speaker 3: with a lot of funnels, saddles, benches and points and

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Speaker 3: draws that come together so that you can capture that

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Speaker 3: big X of movement if anyone pushes a deer. So

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Speaker 3: this this bot came in by himself. He just came

242
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Speaker 3: cruising through. He was actually on an old scrape line.

243
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Speaker 3: He wasn't working scrapes or anything. He was just coming through.

244
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Speaker 3: And where he was going was he was leading angling upwards.

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Speaker 3: And we have a broad hilltop that just has a

246
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Speaker 3: lot of self facing exposure with a lot of stem count,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's not necessarily thick, it's thick for there,

248
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Speaker 3: but it's higher stem count. So then he'd have brows

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Speaker 3: during the daylight during his betting hours. And he was

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Speaker 3: five after eight to a shooting lighter on around quarter

251
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Speaker 3: after seven or seven, So I think he was just

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Speaker 3: heading up to bed. He might have been pushed, you know,

253
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Speaker 3: from a long ways away, but he was kind of

254
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Speaker 3: just easing on through. It's you for a nation, I think,

255
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Speaker 3: And if it was a different weather, I'd be looking

256
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Speaker 3: for different conditions too.

257
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Speaker 2: Or different. Yes, So then tell me that. I guess, So,

258
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Speaker 2: how would you shift things at two fouls? How would

259
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Speaker 2: you shift that up if it was different weather? And

260
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Speaker 2: then secondly, if you were hunting out there public land,

261
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Speaker 2: same kind of place out there in Pa, but you

262
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Speaker 2: were doing this three weeks later now it's not that

263
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Speaker 2: first few days of gun season. Now we're talking like

264
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Speaker 2: December December, would you approach it differently then?

265
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Speaker 3: No, I'd be hunting similar locations. And the thing about

266
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Speaker 3: out there, we used to have a cabin with family

267
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Speaker 3: that I'd go out there, so we would actually literally

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Speaker 3: cross country ski back in this federal land and see

269
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Speaker 3: where the tracks were all winter long, a hike in

270
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Speaker 3: the off season, so you got to have a good

271
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Speaker 3: flavor of pretty good feel where the deer were most

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Speaker 3: of the year. Right now you're hunting more of that

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Speaker 3: late season pattern. The difference is if it's really snowy,

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Speaker 3: I would be down towards the bottoms where the hemlocks are,

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Speaker 3: the hemlock line meets the hardwoods. I would have been.

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Speaker 3: So if it was snowing this trip, we would have

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Speaker 3: been down towards the bottoms. It was crunchy, cold and dry,

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Speaker 3: so we were hunting more at the top where there's

279
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Speaker 3: more food sources, So a lot of times they'll be

280
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Speaker 3: down the bottoms more thermal protection, and then they'll go

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Speaker 3: up to the tops to feed just in the afternoon.

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Speaker 3: And so even going out with this season, I mean

283
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Speaker 3: right now, if it would have been snowy, we would

284
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Speaker 3: have been depending on how much snow we would have

285
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Speaker 3: been either in transition areas or more towards the bottom

286
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Speaker 3: to get closer to that hemlock line.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what about mornings for that kind of setup. I

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Speaker 2: know there's a lot of talk about you know, when

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Speaker 2: you're hunting food sources in the late season, a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks avoid the mornings. It's hard to get in

291
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Speaker 2: or out. But when you're hunting big woods like that,

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Speaker 2: are you are you hunting mornings still just the same

293
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Speaker 2: or or how what does that look like in a

294
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Speaker 2: late season public land, no ag kind of situation.

295
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Speaker 3: The morning or daybreak? You know, I'll side of opening

296
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Speaker 3: day a gun seas were we were there for the

297
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Speaker 3: first two days, so we're going to be out there

298
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Speaker 3: in the morning, and but outside of that, if I

299
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Speaker 3: was just going out to hunt Ran December December sixth

300
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Speaker 3: if you can get into areas and it's pretty cool

301
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 3: out in public land. It's so it's so different on

302
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Speaker 3: private because everything is concentrated. You know, you're looking at

303
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 3: food sources, betting area, transition areas for all their daylight

304
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Speaker 3: movement in a one hundred acre box or less or

305
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,080
Speaker 3: two hundred acres or forty whatever you have to work with.

306
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Speaker 3: We're here, it's thousands of acres and so it's thousands

307
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Speaker 3: of acres open timber, so that the betting areas, the

308
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Speaker 3: food sources are very scattered and the movements in between.

309
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Speaker 3: What that means is if I want to go out,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't necessarily want to be in there right in

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Speaker 3: a food source right at daybreak or around there, because

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Speaker 3: I look at like deer might be bedding nearby. You

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Speaker 3: might spook them going in the cold part of the

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Speaker 3: days in the morning, are they feeding? Are they in

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Speaker 3: their beds to conserve energy? But boy, when it gets

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Speaker 3: to at nine o'clock, ten o'clock and you're on a flat,

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Speaker 3: an oak flat where you've seen some indication of feeding.

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Speaker 3: We've had bears feeding out there. We went through bear

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Speaker 3: sign on the way in on opening day, so the

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Speaker 3: bears are feeding up on top. That would be an

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Speaker 3: area that you could sneak in like eight nine o'clock

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Speaker 3: and then sit for the rest of the day with

323
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Speaker 3: the thought that you're coming in on a flat point.

324
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Speaker 3: You're not expressing yourself over the sides and spooking deer

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Speaker 3: that might be down in the hollow. You're getting in

326
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Speaker 3: the position and blowing your scent off to a non

327
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Speaker 3: deer area, maybe further top up top or towards an

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Speaker 3: open area, waiting for deer that possibly might want to

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Speaker 3: feed mid morning because they were bedded down at daybreak

330
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Speaker 3: when it was super cold. So I like that that

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Speaker 3: approach good morning, and then I brought the spicy feed

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Speaker 3: all day us.

333
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeap, that makes sense. You brought the second rut

334
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,440
Speaker 2: a couple of times a question. I've got a couple

335
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 2: questions related to that. But one thing that I've heard

336
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 2: is that you will be more likely to see a

337
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 2: second rut in places where there's a very healthy deer

338
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 2: population and healthy dough fonds that will come into Maybe

339
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: I'm maybe getting this backwards. I guess answer me this

340
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Speaker 2: before I go run in my mouth. Do you see

341
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 2: a second rut more often on your highly managed private

342
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: lands or on public lands or is it about the

343
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,119
Speaker 2: same either way, Like, is that just as likely to

344
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 2: happen on that public land PA hunt for you or

345
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 2: is it probably not?

346
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 3: We don't because because we're only hunting. So in the

347
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 3: twenty one seasons I've hunted out there, I have averaged

348
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 3: about two days on hunting, so I don't go back.

349
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 3: I'm hunting for opening day the second day. True, I

350
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 3: think eighty percent of those let's say sixty five to

351
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 3: seventy percent of those days I shot my bucket opening day,

352
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 3: so you're not really hunting much past that.

353
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 2: But it's.

354
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I know there's a second rut in those

355
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 3: big public land areas and so and I think sometimes

356
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 3: you look at it like maybe there's better sex ratios,

357
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 3: But the bucks have to travel a lot far further

358
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 3: between dough family groups. So to me, if there's not

359
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 3: a lot of deer, you could almost say that little

360
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 3: dough groups could be missed for that first rought. No

361
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 3: different than if you have an unmanaged herd that's really

362
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 3: out of balance, then you have some leftover dos and

363
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,439
Speaker 3: fauns that box just couldn't take care of because they

364
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,479
Speaker 3: didn't have time they came out of estrus and they're

365
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 3: coming back in a month later. So I don't I know,

366
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 3: like a zoga up in the up of Michigan. He

367
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 3: had told me. I think it was around eighty percent

368
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 3: of the does are bred in that first primary rut,

369
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 3: but then there's about fifteen percent that are bred in

370
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 3: that second rut. And that was kind of up Wi

371
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 3: where they did their studies based on fetuses in ultrasounds

372
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 3: for dose that they I think it was over two

373
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 3: thousand doors they ultrasounded along the side of the road

374
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 3: over a twenty five year period. Whatever it was, it

375
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 3: was pretty good on a data. So and we see

376
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 3: it even where we have good sexual racials around here

377
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, versus Wisconsin where we have a little

378
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 3: bit higher do't count there because of some neighborly things

379
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 3: going up. Then we see second rut in both those

380
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 3: places too. So I'm just trying to think of the

381
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: different areas where I've hunted. We still see that that

382
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 3: second rout pretty prevalent.

383
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 2: What's what's the window when you see that most often?

384
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 2: Like if you had to put a date window on

385
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 2: it in your area, what would the date window be

386
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 2: and how how long do you usually see that as

387
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 2: something like you're going to go into hunt planning to

388
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 2: ki in on, Like is this like a few day window?

389
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: Is this a week? Is this two weeks? What are

390
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 2: we talking in which you're actually thinking, like the second

391
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 2: rut is a legitimate part of my strategy and I'm

392
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 2: hoping to plan for it.

393
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 3: It'd be about a week to ten days, and that'd

394
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 3: be for us right around right now or it's end

395
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 3: of November early December and we're not seeing any We

396
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: have what's kind of nice in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and

397
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 3: I know this is a luxury, and I know this

398
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 3: number might be off putting to some people, but we

399
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 3: have good partnerships with people in the industry, and we

400
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: have right now close to sixty cell cameras in Minnesota

401
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: and Wisconsin on our properties on and if you looked

402
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: at those, they're spread out over less than three hundred acres.

403
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 3: So we have a lot of cell cameras out now,

404
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: and the majority of those we're probably at eighty percent

405
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 3: around mock scrapes, and so we get a really good

406
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 3: view of what's going on with running activity. And I

407
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 3: can say it's almost non existent right now, but I

408
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: would guess, is it the twenty ninth today or is

409
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 3: it the thirtieth?

410
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it says the twenty ninth.

411
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,959
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, I would say it's Wednesday. By this weekend

412
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: we'll start seeing some activities picking up. It'll probably peak

413
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: seventh or tenth of December, and then it'll go back

414
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: downhill pretty quick. But I was hunting both season in

415
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,959
Speaker 3: Wisconsin maybe four years ago. Had one of my target

416
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 3: bucks come through in early January, just breaking brush, making scrapes,

417
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 3: throwing snow all over the place, dirt on top of

418
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 3: the snow, and he was following a dough, a small

419
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 3: uh probably fondo, and she curved in front of me.

420
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: He grunted, she spooked, and he ended up chasing her

421
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: and she came right by me. He didn't. But we

422
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 3: see a lot of that even in that that just

423
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 3: a short window in the early January. It's all about

424
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 3: that that time where he just to me, it's see

425
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 3: during the middle of the rout, you know, a buck

426
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 3: could be coming off a dough any day, and another

427
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: doe could be coming in. He might have to search

428
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 3: for a while. It's a lot more random. But when

429
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 3: you start at the beginning of the rut, it's like

430
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 3: all the bucks are ready, they're just waiting for the doughs.

431
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 3: You have one or two doughs come in, there can

432
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: be some malacious fights sometimes between some molder box then

433
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the high percentage of dose start

434
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: coming in and all these bucks are waiting. And to me,

435
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: that's the time when they're they're all on dose pretty quick.

436
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: It's the way I view it anyways, And that to me,

437
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 3: if they're all on dose pretty quick and you have

438
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: a large percentage coming in, then they miss them. And

439
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 3: then you just fast forward thirty days and twenty eight

440
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 3: days whatever it is, and it's about that same time

441
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 3: every year in December, and then you can do the

442
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 3: same into January.

443
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: So when you get to that time period first week

444
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: or ten days of December, are you hunting? Like if

445
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 2: you're going to a hunt, is it always with the

446
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: mindset like, hey, this is a second rut type hunt

447
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: and I'm going hunt a location to take advantage of that.

448
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: Or do you look at your data from cameras to

449
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: tell you whether or not there is running activity and

450
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: if there's not running activity, you hunt standard late season

451
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: bed to food type pattern.

452
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 3: So if I was planning on hunting, let's just throw

453
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: you know, like next Tuesday morning because it's second rut.

454
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: Then I'm going to go in to some of my

455
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 3: favorite morning rout funnel stands and go take a seat.

456
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: And yeah, if I have celcam data to back it up,

457
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 3: or I have open scrapes where I've walked into another

458
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 3: stand and seeing there's open scrapes, then that might determine

459
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: an area of the property I go to. But just

460
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: taking a total guess, I go in and hit my

461
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: favorite rut stands in the morning and see what happens.

462
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: And then it's different now because we have muscloder season.

463
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 3: I like shooting deer with a bow. I hunt with

464
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: my boat hearing gun season at times, but I also

465
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: enjoy sitting over a food source with muzzleloader looking for

466
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 3: a bunch of does. And so this time of year,

467
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 3: if I think it's second Rut, I don't want to

468
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: hunt some out of the way spot where I think

469
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: a buck might be feeding because it's near as betting area.

470
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 3: I want to go to the source of the bottom

471
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: of the funnel where a lot of dos are coming

472
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: in to a food source. And it seems like when

473
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 3: we start seeing that dough herd meaning seven eight ten

474
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: doers that are out an hour before dark, then good

475
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: things happen. You're bucking around somewhere, which so we'd hunt

476
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: with the boat during the rock because we're not hunting

477
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: those big open food sources with we have food sources,

478
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: we can't hundle the boat because if we go in

479
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: and hunt, we're gonna spook the deer, So we kind

480
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: of in the betting areas that go along with them

481
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 3: the property too.

482
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: So so food that seems so much of what we

483
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: do in the late season revolves around food. Can you

484
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 2: can you tell me a little bit about the types

485
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: of food sources that you like to key in on

486
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: at this time of year, whether that be you know,

487
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: how you plan like create food sources with that in mind,

488
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: or just if you're hunting land. They don't necessarily have

489
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: control over how you might approach that.

490
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: So, like, you know, even going back to Pennsylvania in

491
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: that public land, I don't want to be out in

492
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: the big open hardwoods unless I ask some indication that

493
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: there's still acorns and that's where they're feeding, you know,

494
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: tore up ground snow. I really want to be in

495
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 3: the high stem count areas where you have lots of regeneration,

496
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 3: lots of habitat coming in, think upland cover. If you

497
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 3: can find it on public land, it's hard. But where

498
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 3: you have shrubs, bushes, briars Harvard region, maybe on the

499
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 3: edge of a swamp, it's all coming together. Where there's

500
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: a lot of different habitat groups coming in together, that

501
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: means there's a lot of brows. And to me, as

502
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 3: opposed to a wide open oak flat where deer been pressured,

503
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 3: hunters have been out too, they might feed there more

504
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: at night, it's safe, it's social, they can see predators

505
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: for a long distance. I'd rather be tucked up against

506
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: that high high stem count diversity and brows and public land.

507
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: And then when you go on to private if you're

508
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: managing your own property, you want to definitely have a

509
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 3: lot of younger timber coming in and diversity of habitat.

510
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: But then you're looking at either high volume greens like

511
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: braska if it's towards the north, or corn beans that

512
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 3: are standing late if you can get that. But and

513
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: then adjacent to that same type of cover where you

514
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: have really thick cover. So if I'm hunting in the morning,

515
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 3: i want to be by that thick cover, high stem count,

516
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: and then I might flip stands and go hunt a

517
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: more food source stand related for the afternoon on private land,

518
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 3: but on public land that might be all in the same.

519
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 3: It might be your hunting on the edge of a

520
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 3: very thick area that deer might transfer out of to

521
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: go to an open food source like a big oak

522
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: flat during the afternoon.

523
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 2: If you had to rank order late season food sources from,

524
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: like what your very best would be down the list,

525
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: how would you do that? Because I'm imagining, like I've

526
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: been in this situation where I've hunted agg country and

527
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: I've got some grain food plots, and then there's a

528
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: neighboring cornfield, and then there's another field next to this beans,

529
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: and then there's you know, some cuttings on the neighbors

530
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: and I know there's like some thick natural brows in there,

531
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to think where should I hunt tonight?

532
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: And I got all these different food sources to choose from,

533
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to think, Okay, what's going to be

534
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: the absolute most attractive for this time of the year.

535
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: If you're in if you have the luxury of that situation,

536
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: how would you rank order what would potentially be most attractive?

537
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: And then as a follow up, and I'm giving you

538
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: making this even more tricky, but as a follow up,

539
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: would conditions change that order? So if I told you

540
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: it was a forty degree December day versus a ten

541
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: degree December day, how would you reorder things as well?

542
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 3: You know, kind of it to back up just a

543
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 3: little bit, you know, like you mentioned, it's you have

544
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: all these available, what choice would you make? But a

545
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: lot of times, especially if people are building it or planting,

546
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: and on private land, you're not looking at what sebast

547
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 3: You're looking at what sebast that would be available. And

548
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: so a lot of times someone could say ten degrees

549
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: late December standing beans, pretty hard to beat degrees late

550
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: December standing beans, I'd probably I'd rather shift to corner

551
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: or greens. But then at the same time, even beans

552
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: that ten degrees late December, someone has to have either

553
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: fences or a large amount of acreage of beans to

554
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: make them last till that time. So I see people

555
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: beat themselves like I love beans late like that, But

556
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: if they're not there, then it doesn't really matter what

557
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: your scale one to ten would be. And then also

558
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: you have to look at what's the most unpressured. So

559
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: let's say just someone could say, okay, mid December hunt

560
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: let's just say December twelfth. There's a little bit of

561
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: the rout left last, you know, upper midwest, upper third

562
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: of the country. And you have a choice of a

563
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: bean field in a cornfield, but the bean field's been

564
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: pressured and hunted heavily, then I'm gonna go pick the

565
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: corn and you might even find there's a lot of

566
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: dozen falls in the bean field because they can take

567
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: lot more hunting pressure, human pressure. I'd rather cheat over

568
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: towards that corner the brask that deer are still coming

569
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: to and there's still does come into it. Obviously, if

570
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: dose aren't going to it, why would a buck. I mean,

571
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: he wants some good food too, But unpressured should be

572
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: the first, you know, the first requirement of a late

573
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 3: season food source. And then you start looking at what's best,

574
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 3: and you know, if it's forty degrees, it seems like

575
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 3: they really like greens. If it's warmer, so if they

576
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: have high volume greens, even if they have steaming wheed

577
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: a rye mixed with various greens, clover down in Kentucky,

578
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: West Virginia, southern Illinois, southern Indiana where you might even

579
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 3: get a little growth of clover in November because it

580
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 3: hit sixty seven degrees a few days. So that's a

581
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: little bit different too, versus something you might want to

582
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: do in central Michigan or focus on so heavy greens

583
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 3: of some kind when it's a little warmer later and

584
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: then certainly those grains, but again it has to be unpressured.

585
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. And your point about

586
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: it all being relative to what's the best available at

587
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: that time really important to remember.

588
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: If one thing real quick, mark, consider that a mature buck,

589
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 3: mature buck, the whole range of a mature buck probably

590
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: has probably five times more in a doll family group.

591
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 3: So always remember that that mature bock, he's willing to

592
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: travel a long ways to go find that unpressured food source.

593
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: And so to be very deceiving when you have a

594
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: pile of dolls and fawns in the young box and

595
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: you're thinking, you know, everything's doing really well, but if

596
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: you've overpressured your land, those are the deer that can

597
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: take that pressure. That mature buck might be a mile

598
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: and a half two miles away.

599
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: So on that point, it seems like there's a transition

600
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: in where deer spend time to find that best available

601
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: late season food. But how does betting change as we

602
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: get into a late season in your view, how have

603
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: you seen and maybe buck betting in particular, have you

604
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: found that they start betting closer to the food themselves

605
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: or are they pushing farther back because now there's less

606
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: cover and there's been more pressure and it's harder for

607
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: them to feel safe.

608
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: I think it depends on the food source and how

609
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: much pressure's been there. You know, Eventually, if they get

610
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: pushed too far away, do they even relate to that

611
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 3: food source on a daily basis? So I think they

612
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: still want to keep that window that's comfortable and they

613
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: want to conserve energy getting to it. It's not like

614
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: they're betting ten yards away from the food source. And

615
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: then that depends on if it's big open hardwoods next

616
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: to the food source, they might be four hundred yards

617
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 3: away just because that's how far they have to go

618
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: back where they feel comfortable because it's so open. Where

619
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: if it's super thick and that upland cover some conifer

620
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: mixed in some high stem count briers. They might be

621
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty yards back, and so it really

622
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: depends on habitat right there. And what I see something

623
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: that's a lot different out here is where we have hills.

624
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: And you can say that you know, half of all

625
00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 3: white tail areas have some type of elevation change. But

626
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 3: you really notice those deers starting to not bet up

627
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: on the tops and be exposed to the winds. And

628
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: they'll bet on the north facing slope. If the high

629
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: wind is coming from the south and it's twelve degrees,

630
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: they have to get out of the wind and so

631
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: they can't be on the wind swept tops. We have

632
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: a point I'm thinking in Wisconsin where we hunt, it's

633
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: just beautiful. It's rimmed with some red seedar and on

634
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: that point there's rubs all the time. You know, just

635
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: a monster's up there in October, but he's not there

636
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: in December, just totally exposed.

637
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: If you were and I don't know, maybe you've had

638
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: people like this, but if you're someone who wants to

639
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: set up a property or part of their property specifically

640
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: for late season, like I don't know, maybe you own

641
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: land in Iowa and you want to go there, for

642
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: their gun season or something, or their muzzle over season

643
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: or whatever might be. There are certain states like that,

644
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: if you were going to set up a place, you know,

645
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: particularly or specifically for a December hunt, how would you

646
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: do that, Like what would be your ideal design or

647
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: way you would set up a food source with betting

648
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 2: to make it like extra special for a December late

649
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: season hunt.

650
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: You still want to have the same bedding cover. You

651
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: still want high stem count cover. When deer in their beds,

652
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: you know they're feeding five times in twenty four periods,

653
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 3: so during their beds betting hours, that means twice every

654
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: four or five hours, sometime in the morning, sometime in

655
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: the early afternoon. So they have to have that stem count.

656
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: They have to have food to eat and that browse,

657
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: and so that browsey enjoy in February is the same

658
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 3: brows that they would enjoy and enjoy in October. So

659
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 3: that aside, you still want food. So if it's private land,

660
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: you want food that's available when deers start to look

661
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: to their fall ranges we talk about that fall shift

662
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: sometime late September to late October. We want to have

663
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 3: that food that captures them at that time. So at

664
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 3: that time, I let green clover, rye peas, brassicas those

665
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: combinations depending on what works best in your area. And

666
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: then if you can have the space for the grains,

667
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: especially corn and then beans, then you'd want that for

668
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: late season. The key is, though I've heard people say,

669
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: well I just plant beans because I'm just looking at December. Well,

670
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 3: then you didn't attract deer in September, October, November as much.

671
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 3: And if those deer an't attracted to your land, why

672
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 3: are they all of a sudden going to show up

673
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: in December. And let's say they do all of a

674
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: sudden show up in December, you're getting the leftovers. So

675
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: I'd rather set my land up where I have deer

676
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 3: attracted in September, October, November and then they carry on

677
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: in December. It's almost like October November is more important

678
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: than December, because if you don't have those deer attracted

679
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 3: to the land, why are they going to be there

680
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 3: all of a sudden. I've even had people say, well,

681
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: I'm gonna plant this Braska crop over here on this

682
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: one acre because it's an area I want to hunt

683
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: here in the late late season. But if they've establish

684
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: or fall residency and pattern somewhere else. Why are they

685
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 3: all of a sudden going to move over there a

686
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: quarter mile and feed over in that location when that

687
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: hasn't been a part of their fall pattern the entire

688
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: season up to that point. That's like you're trying to

689
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: establish a pattern of use, and that takes more resources

690
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: because you can't just say on a plant OF's late

691
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: season food source and just let them come Eventually. They

692
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: have to stage it so that there's pieces available, covers

693
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: still the same, it's high stem count, you know, brows,

694
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 3: they have to have that during the day anyways, either way,

695
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 3: but you really want to establish that pattern.

696
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned with the grain, if you were going

697
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 2: to get corner beans in there, you had to have

698
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: enough space. What is that minimum size that you think

699
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: you need to have to get a bean or cornfield

700
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: to work and last to the late season.

701
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: I'll give you some like parameters. Where So I've been

702
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 3: to a half acre quarter acre beanfield that was just

703
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: getting pounded in January, no fence, but it was next

704
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: to an eighty acre beanfield literally right next door, and

705
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 3: so the deer didn't have any reason to hit it

706
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 3: during the summer. They had plenty of beans standing. If

707
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: the beans weren't picked until sometime mid to late October,

708
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: then they didn't even start coming over to that bean field,

709
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: probably till it got really cold then in November December,

710
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 3: so there's no reason for them to be there. But

711
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 3: you plant that same bean field in a big wooded

712
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: section with no ag it probably doesn't make it to

713
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: September and so like around here, for example, I'd want

714
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 3: one to two acre bean fields times three or four

715
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: spread out over two three hundred acres, along with complimentary

716
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: food sources. And that's another thing too. If you don't

717
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: have the other food sources, then they're going to put

718
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: an unfair amount of pressure on that bean or corn.

719
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: Corn is the same thing. They start to hit our

720
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 3: corn pretty good here mid to late November, but it's

721
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: it's going to go pretty quick when you consider all

722
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 3: the other critters that are hitting it too. So you

723
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 3: have to have another complimentary food source. And then what's

724
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: on your neighbors. There's a big difference for how much

725
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 3: food you need when you have either neighbors with food

726
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: sources or food plots or ag land versus if you're

727
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: in a wooded section even with fewer deer, because then

728
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 3: your food is that it's only game in town, so

729
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: you probably need two, three, four times more food. And

730
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: some of those big wooded areas versus ag area where

731
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: you have the compliment and support of other food sources

732
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 3: around you. It's hard to give a You can't really

733
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: give a because you have to know deer numbers, what

734
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 3: your neighbors are doing. What if your property is the

735
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 3: only property without a lot of pressure, so de'er spending

736
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: more of an unfair amount of time overall on your property,

737
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 3: which is a good thing because you're doing well with it,

738
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: but you're going to go through more food at that

739
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: point too.

740
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: Speaking of that pressure, pressure in the late season, so

741
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: much I feel of late season is managing pressure, but

742
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: then taking advantage of other people's pressure, right because at

743
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: this point there's been all sorts of other hunters around,

744
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 2: and any deer that are still alive in December have

745
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: been through the ringer, and you know, in my experience,

746
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: their heads are on a swivel, they are jumpy, and

747
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: they are gravitating to those places, those pockets where they've

748
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: felt safe. So I've always approached the late season, maybe

749
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 2: even more surgically than I approach other parts of the year,

750
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: which I'm still pretty strategic with, but then when it

751
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: comes to late season, I feel like you've got to

752
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: be just right about how often you go in, When

753
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: you go in, where you go in, because you have

754
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: fewer chances than at any other point to make a mistake.

755
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: That's a long win, a way of getting to scouting

756
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 2: and figuring out like where to hunt, when to hunt,

757
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: what's the pattern? How do you figure out these deer

758
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: that you're after in December without them catching on to

759
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 2: you anything you're doing differently with your cameras, with any

760
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: form of intel gathering that you're doing that allow you

761
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: to have an informed hunt in December.

762
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: It's kind of like, you know, you're you're looking at

763
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 3: the lowest hole in the bucket as far as you're

764
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 3: taking out, you know, the top portions are the best food,

765
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: the best cover. Like if you're looking on public land,

766
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: the lowest hole in the bucket, you know. Pressure, So

767
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the major parking areas and major trails

768
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: and major campgrounds and major boat access points. And even

769
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 3: if you're throwing a beaver dam, you have to cross

770
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: here and there. Well, you can look at it on

771
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: paper and say probably about a late season. If there's

772
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 3: any bucks left or mature box, they're going to be

773
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: in this area because they've been pushed from all sides

774
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: and whittled down into the spot. And so you could

775
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 3: make an educated guest without even knowing the lay of

776
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 3: the land or the property. Public land, for example, we

777
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 3: I hadn't been out to that public land spot in

778
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: four years in that entire area. But you can make

779
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 3: an educated gas based on the people movements and where

780
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: people are. They're hot zones where you can get into

781
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: an area where you kind of have an area to yourself,

782
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: and if that meets your habitat requirements of good stem

783
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: count diversity, and it's hidden, then you're going to have

784
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: a reasonable expectation there's going to be deer there, older

785
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: bucks there, just because you're whittling it down to that

786
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 3: and you don't even know anything about the land other

787
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 3: than what you see on an aerial photo. And then

788
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 3: private land is different because if you set the table

789
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: and you've left it alone, even if you have no

790
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 3: cameras out and you have good food, good cover, there's

791
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: a reasonable expectation that you go out there and have

792
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 3: a really good hunt. And what's a little bit different

793
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 3: during the late season when you're not talking bull is

794
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: that we can watch our food sources right now, and

795
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: we can watch the same food source sometimes over and

796
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 3: over again, because we're not spooking deer when you get

797
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: in and out, because we're using a muzzle over. So

798
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 3: shooting a deer at a one hundred and ninety five

799
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: yards two hundred and fifty five is another one that

800
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: shout over the last four years with a muzzleoder, and

801
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 3: those deer had no clue you're even there, and so

802
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 3: you can get and watch them over and over again.

803
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: Where with a bow, I had to stay off those

804
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: food sources and I have to hunt transitions. So then

805
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 3: you're being careful. You know. It's like during the rut,

806
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: you can afford to get in next to a betting

807
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: area because what are the odds that he's there when

808
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: you're going in in the morning, But if you go

809
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: in during wintertime, not only is it crunch here, but

810
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: they can see better the leaves are off the tree.

811
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: So I have to stay further away from those betting

812
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: areas and get more into transition areas between food and betting.

813
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 3: With a bowl or on a small food source on

814
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 3: the way to a big food source, something like that.

815
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 3: But you're almost looking at like, Okay, deer are going

816
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 3: to go through this funnel, but they're probably not there,

817
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: And I'm staying away from the food and the betting,

818
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: getting in between that barbelle of movement so that I'm

819
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 3: not spooking out either, because, like you said, once you

820
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 3: spook them out late season, they're just going somewhere else.

821
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 3: Even if it's just that over buck you're after, he's

822
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 3: going somewhere else.

823
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: So when you're hunting late season on your on your land,

824
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 2: are you not chasing a pattern, not trying to really

825
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: dial in a specific spot, a specific but you're more

826
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: so like, Hey, I'm gonna volume hunt a food source

827
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: that I know checks off the boxes he needs, and

828
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it enough times because I can do

829
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 2: it from afar and he won't know.

830
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 3: I'm looking at more. It's different on private land because

831
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 3: we get to know what bucks are in which area,

832
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 3: and so if I go out to our seventy seven

833
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 3: acre personal it's all connected, but the seventy seven acres,

834
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: then I'm I'm expecting to see Isaac Barry, Isaac and

835
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 3: Barry would between I'm expecting to see Junior, but he's

836
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: not one we're after this year. Isaac and Barry would

837
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 3: be the two ones over there. So then I'm hunting

838
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: Isaac and Berry movement on that area. And I'm using

839
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 3: my morning stands as if I would hear the second run,

840
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 3: as if I would during the rut, going in with

841
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: the expectations I might see Isaac or Berry, and I'm

842
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 3: letting the wind determine which stand that I go to.

843
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: And so I'm looking at like they should be there

844
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: for these reasons. Either I have a troilcamp photo with them.

845
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 3: Scrapes are opened up. Even without trail cameras, you know

846
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 3: that there's big track scrapes, there's no new rub, there's

847
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 3: some shavings on top of the on top of the snow.

848
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: And then you're going in there thinking I'm hunting this buck.

849
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 3: But I'm hunting. I'm still chipping around. I'm not spooking

850
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 3: out the food sources. I'm hunting this betting area in

851
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: the morning, this betting area or this movement based on

852
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 3: the wind and my access, and I'm trying to chip

853
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 3: around a little bit. And it'd be the same on

854
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: public land. If I thought a buck was moving to

855
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 3: this clear cut from this knoll or swamp edge in

856
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: the distance, I might hit them from one side of

857
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 3: the transition with one wind, and then I might circle around

858
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 3: hit him another side another day. I might get closer

859
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: to the food or closer to the bedding. And so

860
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 3: you're still hunting that certain bock, but you're using multiple

861
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 3: stands or access routes to make sure that you're limiting

862
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: your pressure in or out. And it's a similar feature.

863
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: The only difference is when you get to this time

864
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: of year is that there's areas that are devoided deer.

865
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: You just see that there's snow, there's no deer using

866
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: this corner, there's no food, the cover's not good, there's

867
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: neighboring pressure that's keeping the deer away from there, and

868
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: they've where it can be a little bit more. We

869
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: have more stands available, let's put it that way, early

870
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 3: to mid November than we do early to mid December.

871
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 3: Just because I don't feel comfortable with some of the

872
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 3: things are company.

873
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, is it true that sometimes you can have too

874
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 2: many deer at this time of year. Yeah. In that so,

875
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: so I'm imagining like the situations that I think a

876
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: lot of people have where they're hunting land that they

877
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 2: don't get to manipulate themselves. So you're hunting permission or

878
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: lease or whatever in which there's ag and there's stuff

879
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: out there, but it's not set up ideally for hunting,

880
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: right it's just big open cut cornfields or pick bean

881
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 2: field or whatever, and there's a pile of deer out there,

882
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: and you want to hunt them, but then you're thinking,

883
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: how the heck do I get out of here? How

884
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: do I get in? There's deer catching.

885
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: On, So it's one thing of your hunt with a

886
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: muzzle order, because then you can come into some you know,

887
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: if you feel comfortable shooting out to two hundred yards,

888
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: then set up for one fifty one seventy five and

889
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: get off to the side and a fence rol But

890
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 3: a lot of people really push it. They see all

891
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 3: those deer coming out into a certain corner, they feel

892
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 3: they have to get in there with a bow and

893
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: try it. Where I'd rather go sit all day and

894
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: sit on the back side of that bedding area or

895
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: in the bedding area with my wind blowing to a

896
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 3: safe area, get in there very early in the morning

897
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 3: and then just wait to see what happens. If I

898
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 3: can get out at a lot or twelve because I

899
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 3: don't see any deer and I have safe passages to

900
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: get back the way I came and get out of there,

901
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: that's fine, But I'd rather take my chances back in

902
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: that thick area on an all day hunt, or at

903
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: least sitting until late morning when I feel I can

904
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: get out, then going and playing around with all those

905
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: dozes and young bucks and all those eyes. I'd rather

906
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: get back in that bucks bedroom. And you're playing that,

907
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 3: you're playing that game where it's a game of balance

908
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: where you look at it like you I want to

909
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 3: get in that movement, but I don't want to be

910
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 3: so far in that I'm spooking the movement. And then

911
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 3: the other thought is too. It was a buck that

912
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: used to watch a lot of hunting videos, and I

913
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,919
Speaker 3: want to say it was a KISSI outdoors one back

914
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: in the day, and there's this buck that they had

915
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 3: five or six years of sheds, So this buck was

916
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 3: eight years old, and all these deer were coming in.

917
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: They had a muzzle order into this big food source,

918
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 3: and he just wasn't coming till an hour or two

919
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 3: after dark. Well, they ended up shooting him like seven

920
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 3: to eight hundred yards away out of this little corner

921
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: of the habitat where they thought he was betting. They

922
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: shot him right at dark as he was slipping through,

923
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 3: not going to get to the food source for another

924
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 3: hour or two, and they went back into that buck

925
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: area where it was well behind all the doves and

926
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 3: young bucks and commotion, where he had lived and felt safe.

927
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: And I still look at like they're like a grumpy

928
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 3: old man. They just like getting away from everything else.

929
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 3: So if you think about that, either going in the

930
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 3: morning or where you would potentially slip in in the afternoon,

931
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 3: you're not hunting the huge numbers of deer. You're hunting

932
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: that buck that compliments that movement of huge numbers of deer.

933
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: It just seems so incredibly risky to try to do

934
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: that in the late season when there's so little cover

935
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: on the trees now, the deer are so on pins

936
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: and needles. It just seems like everything's loud in the

937
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: woods in December. Sound carries forever. I'd be so worried

938
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: to try to slip deep into the cover. How do

939
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: you how do you deal with that? How do you

940
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: count for that what needs to be done to make

941
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 2: sure that those things I'm worried about don't run hunt.

942
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 3: And that really depends on your terrain, you know. Like

943
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 3: around here, we're sneaking up on the backside of ridges

944
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 3: a lot, so we're not cresting over a ridge and

945
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: pronouncing ourselves all the way. Even wore we went in

946
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: for Pennsylvania, we were very careful. There's a point I

947
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: like going up, and we go up the point on

948
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 3: the backside from where you expect to see deer on

949
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 3: the other side of the point or in the draw.

950
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 3: And then when we walk across the top, we're being

951
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: very careful to walk right in the middle of the

952
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 3: top so that we're not projecting our sound and presence

953
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: over the sides as far as possible, so we're staying

954
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 3: on that flat and then we're going in slow or

955
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 3: avoiding breaking sticks. I like walking, like when we're out there,

956
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 3: when you're starting to the closer you get to your

957
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 3: your blind or we were just sitting in chairs in

958
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 3: the forest against a tree, but the closer you get

959
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: to that point, you're almost stalking your spot. And I

960
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: like walking heel the toe to where you're setting your

961
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: foot down in front before your back foots off the grounds.

962
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: It's almost like a continuous just movement. But we're very

963
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 3: careful in those cases where and then in some cases

964
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: it's kind of like if you if it's so loud

965
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 3: that you can't get into a stand without spooking out

966
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: of betting area. It's just that balance of knowing or not.

967
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 3: If it's risky, I don't do it. And so then

968
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 3: I I'm looking at like, if I think I can

969
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 3: get into one hundred yards away from where he's betting

970
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 3: because of the lay of the land, because there's soft

971
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 3: snow out because it's damp, and the leaves are damp,

972
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: they're not crunchy, then I'll I'll do that. But if

973
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 3: I think I need to be two hundred yards away

974
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 3: from that spot, then I'll find that where I think

975
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure if I go in, I'm not spooking

976
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 3: him out of there. And that's really the question you

977
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: have to ask yourself, is you're backing up to the

978
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 3: point where you think you might not have a chance

979
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: at him, but you know it's safe to go in.

980
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: I'd rather do that hunt them get five or six

981
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 3: sits out of that and hunt with the wind in

982
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: the right location, rather than going in one time and

983
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 3: spooking it before you start your even begins. So yeah,

984
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: I trying to assail.

985
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, how late into the year would you do that

986
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: morning sit like you described pushing in there like that?

987
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 2: Is that just during the second rut time period or

988
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: would you keep trying that even like when we're beyond

989
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: you know, or any real chance of second rut? Like

990
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 2: would you do that in January? I know you mentioned

991
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: that once you saw that, but no.

992
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 3: We've seen it. I've seen that a lot, and I've

993
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: seen it in February on a client property that was

994
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 3: the latest ever saw it, where literally there's fresh scrapes

995
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 3: and peelings on top of the snow. That was a

996
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: very high dough density area and so lots of deer.

997
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 3: But but I'm looking at when I think the scrapes

998
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 3: are open, I'm using my running tactics, rout tactics for

999
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 3: going in. But then also there's also that tactic of

1000
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 3: a lot of deer when it's super cold will feed

1001
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 3: mid morning because the warmth is starting to come up,

1002
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 3: that's sunny, whereas if they're moving it might be let's

1003
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: say it's eight degrees at daybreak, but by eleven o'clock

1004
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 3: it's twenty one and it's going to warm up to

1005
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: thirty two. Then they're going to move to me. I

1006
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: find they move more mid morning late morning. In that

1007
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 3: condition where it's a little bit warmer, they can feed

1008
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 3: and can serve energy at the same time, and that

1009
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 3: can be ideal for going in even after daybreak where

1010
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 3: you're lighting the deer settle down. You're going in because

1011
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 3: you know they're not betting in this open woods. You

1012
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: know you can walk to this line of swamp where

1013
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of conifer and you can get on

1014
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 3: the edge of that or just poke in a little

1015
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: bit to a movement, or you're walking in on the

1016
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 3: backside of a ridge. You're walking across an open field

1017
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,879
Speaker 3: where they're not at at daybreak, and you're getting into

1018
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 3: a funnel between woodlots. But you're utilizing that axis. And

1019
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 3: then you're going down, sitting mid morning and seeing what

1020
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 3: happens till early afternoon. And it might be a spot

1021
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 3: because of where they're moving in the evening that you're

1022
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 3: actually sitting there until dark and you're going in at nine.

1023
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 3: So definitely some ways to sneak in and still hunt

1024
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 3: the morning or all day. That might be favorable, more

1025
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 3: favorable than going in three hours before dark. You're starting

1026
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 3: to move and feed a little bit.

1027
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point. So what about this scenario.

1028
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: Imagine you have got permission on a mixed timber and

1029
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: egg property. Let's call it one hundred acres to make

1030
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: it simple, and we'll say fifty of it is a

1031
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: harvested cornfield. Fifty of it is mixed mature timber and

1032
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: swampy brushy stuff. So there's some bedding in there, and

1033
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 2: then there's a big open food source, and there's a

1034
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: bunch of deer that are coming and feeding in that

1035
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: cornfield every night. You're bow hunting mid December, and your

1036
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 2: only available access is through the field, so the only

1037
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: road access is from the field side, so all the

1038
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: cover is in the interior of the property. You can't

1039
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 2: get to that without crossing that field. How would you

1040
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: do what you just described and hunt mornings but go

1041
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 2: in after daylight when the field is cleared, and just

1042
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 2: poke into the cover then and then you know, bail

1043
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: for the evening because you know you can't get out

1044
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 2: of it without spooking deer, or would you try to

1045
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 2: hunt in the evenings and have some other way to

1046
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 2: get out of that thing, knowing that you have to

1047
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 2: get across that cornfield somehow after dark? Like, how would

1048
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: you do something like that? Because I know, like I

1049
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: have places like that. I know so many friends who

1050
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: hunt places like this where they just don't have a

1051
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: strong option to get out because there's fields in the

1052
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 2: way of where they want to hunt and where they

1053
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: have to park. What do you do?

1054
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 3: I definitely would wait till after daybreak to go in,

1055
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: make sure the field is cleared so I can at

1056
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 3: least get to the woods. Hopefully there's a thick area

1057
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: of the woods or some conifer, maybe a little bit

1058
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 3: a little bit of elevation change where I can get

1059
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 3: in and not spook the deer in the woods. And

1060
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 3: then I'm going to sit and blow my scent to

1061
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 3: one side of the field or the other where I

1062
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: think it's less likely the deer going to be, and

1063
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: push that balance of how close can I get to

1064
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 3: their movement in the afternoon evening, and then you at

1065
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: least get a fresh set and you just have to

1066
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 3: hunt that way. And it's one of those things where

1067
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 3: if you spook deer getting out, even if you're cheating

1068
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 3: to the side of the field that you see as

1069
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: fewer deer and you spook a bunch of deer and

1070
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 3: it's the only way you can hunt. But I wouldn't

1071
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 3: ruin my hunt by walking in before daybreak just for

1072
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 3: the thought that why I have to get in there

1073
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 3: an hour before daylight and then be there when it

1074
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 3: wakes up. I'd rather at least get to my stand

1075
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 3: and have a reasonable chance that I haven't spooked deer

1076
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 3: for an afternoon hunt, then ruin it before it even

1077
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 3: gets daylight and so, and then you're just hoping you

1078
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 3: can get out after or hopen you shoot something actually

1079
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 3: and then it doesn't matter if you get out. Yeah,

1080
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 3: But bottom line is, I'd rather at least have one

1081
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 3: good hunt and then maybe you you wait four or

1082
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 3: five days and go try it again, because if you

1083
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: keep gitting it and spooking deer after dark, even if

1084
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 3: you have to get out, what it's just, it's going

1085
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 3: to turn into a dud property pretty quick.

1086
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. What's your take on wheeled access? So using a

1087
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: e bike or golf cart or something like that to

1088
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: clear the field on your way out knowing that, like, hey,

1089
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna bust a bunch of deer when I come

1090
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: out of here, but at least I'm doing it on

1091
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 2: a vehicle some kind versus walking out on two feet.

1092
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 3: Well, if I didn't have a choice, I'd rather take

1093
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 3: an electric vehicle out to smoke deer if that was

1094
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: my only option. Obviously, I'm not going there with the

1095
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 3: ATV in that condition because it's probably spooking out the

1096
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 3: woods before I even get off the ATV. But at

1097
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 3: least something electric would be And we've to be honest,

1098
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 3: we've done that out here a couple of times. But

1099
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 3: it does, It does affect the hunt. I even had.

1100
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 3: I have a neighbor out here that has one of

1101
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 3: the new players evs, and I didn't know we had one.

1102
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 3: And so when I was sitting nearby, I heard him

1103
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 3: go back go by. It dark. I sit till a

1104
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 3: shooting light, you know, till end of shooting light where

1105
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 3: he got out a little bit early. But I heard

1106
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 3: him go by, and it sound I told Jen, it

1107
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 3: sounded like a It sounded to me like a golf

1108
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: cart with loose golf clubs driving by. What happened in it,

1109
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 3: but you could hear it was like a rattle and

1110
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: a whirr, if that makes sense. And he went by

1111
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 3: probably two hundred and fifty yards away across the open field.

1112
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: I didn't see him, but it was it was fairly dark,

1113
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 3: and I'm not sure that would have been you look

1114
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 3: at it, like if he was walking, he would have

1115
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 3: been dead quiet, and if something was close, something had

1116
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 3: been close to spook it. But we went by with

1117
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 3: that machine and that clicking and cleaning, and even though

1118
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 3: there's in a little whirr in that case his machine,

1119
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 3: it's and I found out later it was that the

1120
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 3: new player CV. But it would have spooked here three

1121
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 3: hundred yards away, So I guess it depends on the machine.

1122
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of those electric golf carts are

1123
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: pretty just a hunterized golf cart with locking red differential

1124
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: knobby tires. You know, they can be pretty quiet. Yeah,

1125
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 3: unless you have a bunch of loose golf clubs.

1126
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, make sure put those in the garage before you

1127
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: take off for the hunt.

1128
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 3: We do that a lot. We use our bikes around

1129
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 3: here because we have top level access in Minnesota, and

1130
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 3: we have areas where it's an eight minute bike ride

1131
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: a full wide open to get to uh to get

1132
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 3: to a spot where we're even going to stage and

1133
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 3: put the bike before we walk in a couple hundred

1134
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: yards to get to a spot.

1135
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: YEP. And they they're definitely more forgiving of that, right.

1136
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: I would say they're more forgiving unless you're sound from

1137
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 3: the machine is pushing across two or three hundred yards,

1138
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 3: So it's kind of like if it's if it's a noisy,

1139
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 3: so you have to be really careful. We even have

1140
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 3: like our quiet cats, we have fenders on them, and

1141
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 3: if you don't use the fender, not with rubber washer,

1142
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: they'll bounce up and down and vibrate and I just

1143
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 3: can't stand it. I was halfway across the field we

1144
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 3: had fenders on. I almost stopped to cut the fender

1145
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 3: off because I didn't like that chat or going across.

1146
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 3: And what we did is we just zip tide them

1147
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 3: and just made it so they But you really just

1148
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 3: have to be careful with that because some little noise

1149
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: that it's almost like have a friend stand one hundred

1150
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: yards away, one hundred and fifty and just see if

1151
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 3: you know what they're back to you, and see if

1152
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 3: they can hear you go by, and if they can,

1153
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 3: it's probably you're probably better off walking.

1154
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such an interesting balancing act.

1155
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 3: Well, you're just in anything you do, you're trying not

1156
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 3: to spook the deer. So it's like every decision you make,

1157
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 3: and it is it's kind of like we were looking

1158
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: over some of the ridges in Pennsylvania and it's just

1159
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 3: so I say it all the time. It sounds kind

1160
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 3: of goofy, But would you look over that ridge down

1161
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 3: onto a bench that's one hundred yards away if a

1162
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: deer had a gun and if you walked loudly across

1163
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 3: the top and you didn't care, if you walk to

1164
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 3: a big tree and you just silhouetted yourself and look down,

1165
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 3: you'd be dead. So think about walking across that top

1166
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 3: and looking over, or getting to a stand where you're

1167
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 3: accessing through a field. Can you access through there without

1168
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: a deer knowing you're going by and shooting back if

1169
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 3: they had guns? Obviously I probably wouldn't hunt if they

1170
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: had guns.

1171
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 2: But the whole, the whole New Ballow acts, that's for sure.

1172
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: But anyway, it's always that balancing act of.

1173
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of the balancing act, then another one of

1174
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: the things, and we we kind of danced around this

1175
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: a little bit, But it seems like in the late

1176
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 2: season there's a lot of talk and a lot of

1177
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 2: thought around when to hunt, like what are the right

1178
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: days to hunt? And I know you're really big on

1179
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 2: picking these high you know, high odds days you have

1180
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, contributed your your thoughts to the algorithm for

1181
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 2: the hunt. Oh gosh, I'm having a brain fart. Jeff,

1182
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 2: what's the app? Hunt cast? Hunt?

1183
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah cast?

1184
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, So you've got that predictive algorithm you helped

1185
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 2: develop to pick the right days to hunt. When it

1186
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 2: comes to the late season, are there any particular conditions,

1187
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: any particular variables that are more important at this time

1188
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: of year than any other, Like, what are the things

1189
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 2: you're really really keying in on for a December or

1190
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 2: January hunt? What are you looking for?

1191
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 3: It seems like during the rut, you can have a

1192
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,439
Speaker 3: fifteen mile an hour win, twenty mile hour win. That's

1193
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 3: something that's above moderate, not extreme, like thirty five mile

1194
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 3: hour wins or thirty. But you can have something that's

1195
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 3: moderate during the rut that doesn't have as much effect

1196
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: as when it's fifteen degrees in December and you have

1197
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: that same wind. It seems wind because there's no running

1198
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 3: activity or very little unless it's the second rot, they're

1199
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 3: just food source movements. It really seems like wind can

1200
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: shut down movement quite a bit. At the same time,

1201
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 3: I've been out in some super calm conditions where they

1202
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 3: just don't seem to move. It's so still, it doesn't

1203
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 3: seem like much moving. So you know, a little bit

1204
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 3: of wind seems like it's always good, but not not

1205
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 3: a lot of wind. I really like when there's a

1206
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: I can think of some really good wet snow times

1207
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 3: where we have what snow coming down to the point

1208
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 3: where there's an inch or two a fluff on your

1209
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: body after an hour and a half of sitting in

1210
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 3: a stand. But I've had some really good movement times

1211
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 3: during snow and I don't and I think deer or

1212
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: sometimes moving. It's like if it's snow and it's cold,

1213
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 3: they're moving to get out of the wind, they're moving

1214
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 3: on the least side of the ridges, they're moving to

1215
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 3: more stands of conifer. And so I think sometimes when

1216
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: it's snowing, and obviously that's usually not happening in September October,

1217
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 3: for the most part that that really I love hunting

1218
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 3: those snow conditions. And then I'm always being mindful too

1219
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 3: that if it's super cold, how like we had eight

1220
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 3: degrees this morning, ten degrees something like that, and we

1221
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 3: hardly had any movement on our cameras at daybreak, and

1222
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, you see a little bit

1223
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 3: of movement mid morning, and then we'll see a lot

1224
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: if the conditions are decent, not too windy, this afternoon,

1225
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 3: we'll see a lot more. We're at daybreak, you can

1226
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 3: count on if it's extreme cold, which might be eighteen

1227
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 3: degrees and you know, northern Kentucky might be eight degrees here, whatever,

1228
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 3: but they're they're really not moving to conserve energy.

1229
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, I've heard some people say that they

1230
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: see a bump in activity on warm trends, Like a

1231
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: lot of us want to see the big cold front

1232
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:35,919
Speaker 2: in the late season, right, I'm looking for that eight

1233
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: degrees and snow. But then I've heard other people mention like, hey, yeah,

1234
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: that's great, but then also when it bumps up to

1235
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: forty five after a bunch of that cold, or they

1236
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: all of a sudden feel more comfortable moving. Again, have

1237
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: you seen anything like that, is that something you subscribe

1238
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: to something.

1239
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: I think I touched on this in my book, you know,

1240
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: all other white Tails. But it was when the snow

1241
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 3: was soft, and so those same conditions when it hasn't

1242
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 3: been snowing. Obviously, if it's just forty all the time,

1243
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: forty five all the time, it's just kind of boring

1244
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 3: warm this time of year. But if you just had

1245
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 3: snow and there's snow on the ground, obviously got down

1246
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: to the twenties, low thirties at the warmest. So then

1247
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, when it's warm, snow out and

1248
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 3: it's softer conditions. Boy, it seems like I can remember

1249
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 3: a lot of really nice times either tracking deer that

1250
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 3: would shot in the snow or hunting in the soft

1251
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 3: snow meaning it's getting packy. It's a really good, really

1252
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 3: good condition too. So I think it's relative to what

1253
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 3: happened before those temperatures.

1254
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: Yep, that makes sense. Okay, So to put a bow

1255
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 2: on all this, what do you think is the biggest

1256
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: mistake folks make when it comes to late season? Like,

1257
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: are what are we getting wrong? What's the average hunter

1258
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: doing wrong at this time of the year, Because I

1259
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 2: think We've covered a lot of stuff that will help

1260
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 2: you do it right. But what's that thing where you

1261
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: hear a lot of folks are missing.

1262
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 3: The same thing that we fail as hunters all the

1263
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 3: time is we just do the same thing. And so

1264
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: that spot where you saw that monster and end of

1265
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 3: October early November might be a quarter mile from where

1266
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 3: you should be hunting in the late season, and so

1267
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 3: late season deer heard up. There's not a lot of

1268
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 3: food sources, there's not a lot of safe food sources,

1269
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 3: and there's not a lot of good and safe betting areas,

1270
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 3: and so they tend to congregate a lot more and

1271
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 3: to me, a much smaller percentage of the habitat, whether

1272
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 3: it's on public or private land, actually hold and have

1273
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 3: the potential to hold decent bucks. So if you do

1274
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 3: what you did in October November, meaning you like I

1275
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, we have a much higher percentage of stands

1276
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 3: that are in play end of October November than we

1277
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,919
Speaker 3: do end of November and December, just because of dead

1278
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 3: areas and the habitat, wind swept areas, food sources that

1279
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 3: are not available, food sources that have been pressured, neighboring

1280
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 3: betting areas that have been pressured heavily during gun season,

1281
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 3: and so I really need to make sure you follow

1282
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 3: the deer. And the cool thing about the late season

1283
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 3: is whether it's fresh rumps with a lot of shavings

1284
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 3: on top of leaves, or snow fresh scrapes, so you

1285
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 3: can actually you can actually see those are pretty easy

1286
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 3: to see, let alone lots of fresh pellets and betting activity.

1287
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 3: It stands out pretty good. And so I can remember

1288
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 3: even the thumb area in the nineties, where we would

1289
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 3: want to hunt a certain wood lot, we just had

1290
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 3: to do a half mile loop around the wood lot

1291
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 3: a lot of times on the road just even see

1292
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 3: if there's tracks going that way. If there weren't, we

1293
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 3: went to the wood lot where their tracks going to

1294
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 3: it, it might be completely three quarters of a mile difference from

1295
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: where we thought we'd be hunting in the afternoon. So

1296
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 3: I think, you know, following the deer, being mindful that

1297
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,919
Speaker 3: there's a much smaller percentage of the habitat that's actually

1298
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 3: going to hold deer the deer grouped up. If you

1299
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 3: just do that, following the deer and then being careful

1300
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 3: going in, a lot of people look at it like

1301
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 3: kind of like we were talking about in the beginning.

1302
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 3: We are anxious, we were stressed. We want to get it,

1303
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 3: we want to fill it. If we have a tag

1304
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 3: this time of year, and you tend on mistakes and

1305
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 3: you tend to push things a little bit more so,

1306
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: if you can identify those deer hot spots this time

1307
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 3: of year that are always shrinking, and if you can

1308
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 3: be careful and measured how you go on and approach.

1309
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,919
Speaker 3: To me, that's where the hope and the potential comes

1310
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 3: for this time of year. It's really really high if

1311
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 3: you don't spook the deer and you don't get trapped

1312
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 3: into doing what you did in September, October and maybe

1313
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 3: during the rut November.

1314
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think some of the things you just

1315
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 2: mentioned will fall into this, but I want to have

1316
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: you reframe or prioritize a little bit. If you had

1317
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 2: to have a stone tablet in front of you and

1318
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 2: you were going to carve into it your three commandments

1319
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 2: for late season success, this is going to be Jeff

1320
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 2: Stur just as late season success. It's going to be

1321
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: here for eternity. Everyone's going to see this when they

1322
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning on December twenty seventh and

1323
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: they're going to go out for the hunts. The first

1324
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 2: thing they see, what would be the three things you

1325
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 2: would carve on that stone tablet for late season success.

1326
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 3: Well, that's tough. I know. The first one would be

1327
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 3: fine the deer, and that seems to be just overly obvious,

1328
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 3: but it's not considering that only a small percentage of

1329
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 3: the habitat holds the majority of the deer, and so

1330
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 3: again not getting trapped into that. You know, hunting the

1331
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 3: same place as you always have, be mindful of that

1332
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 3: deer are going to congregate, there's going to be a

1333
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 3: lot of sign where they're at, and really need to

1334
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 3: gravitate your hunting, even if that means quickly changing where

1335
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,759
Speaker 3: your stand locations are, maybe even sitting in new, brand

1336
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 3: new stand locations. That would be step one. And then

1337
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 3: doing everything you can to protect your hunt, meaning don't

1338
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 3: spook the deer. And again that's an overly obvious one,

1339
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 3: but again we rush things this time of the year,

1340
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 3: and it's a lot easier as we talked about, to

1341
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 3: spook here this time of year. So if you can

1342
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 3: find the deer, preserve the movement, and then always be

1343
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 3: mindful that although the afternoon food source movement is king

1344
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 3: this time of year. Bucks are replenishing themselves, doze or congregated,

1345
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 3: They're aating these major food sources. There should be lots

1346
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 3: of tracks, lots of sign the second rut is real

1347
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 3: and it opens up a whole new morning opportunity to

1348
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,919
Speaker 3: hunt like you would deer in the rut, being mindful

1349
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 3: of where the deer are located this time of year,

1350
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 3: so you're really looking at the potential for morning stands

1351
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 3: and afternoon stands, hunting that food source movement, making sure

1352
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 3: you don't spook out the deer herds that you do find,

1353
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 3: and then always look for those deer and expect them

1354
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 3: to be in a lot smaller percentage of the habitat.

1355
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 3: And if you're finding those areas consistently, you're going to

1356
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 3: be on the mature box because they'll move a long

1357
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 3: ways out of the way to find those conditions.

1358
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well, I do still have one Michigan tag

1359
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 2: left for the late seasons, so I'm going to see

1360
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 2: if I can get that transcribed and printed on a

1361
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: poster that I can put in my bedroom so that

1362
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 2: I remember those three commandments for the next three four weeks.

1363
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 2: Of hunting here because I think.

1364
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 3: That's general, but it's it's fun this time of year

1365
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 3: when you can locate those herds of deer, the bigger

1366
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 3: deer numbers, find all that sign I remember going back

1367
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 3: to when I was a kid. It's it's a whole

1368
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 3: lot of fun. We have a lot of used to

1369
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 3: hunt till early January every single season in Michigan. It

1370
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 3: could only help the weekends and hunted most of them,

1371
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 3: so a lot of fond memories this time of year.

1372
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 2: It's a great time. I really do. You mentioned it earlier,

1373
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: the fact that it's slightly more relaxed. Actually, if you

1374
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 2: don't feel that pressure that you have to get another

1375
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 2: tag field, if you can kind of go into this

1376
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 2: and enjoy it in a little bit different way. Man,

1377
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 2: it's a lot of fun. So I think there's a lot.

1378
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot we can learn from this one. Jeff.

1379
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 2: I appreciate you sharing all this and re igniting the

1380
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: fire for me to continue the rest of these final

1381
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: weeks in what's in strong form.

1382
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 3: I'll tell you real quick on that that more relaxed time.

1383
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 3: When it was the rout, I couldn't even consider bringing

1384
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 3: my twenty month old Jackson out into the woods. It

1385
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 3: just didn't seem like a realistic opportunity. We're here to

1386
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: go into a food source that's starting seventy five yards away,

1387
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 3: keeping the window of the blind shot, bringing a bunch

1388
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 3: of snacks, throwing him on a big old camping chair

1389
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 3: with a blanket and the heater. It just I mean,

1390
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,799
Speaker 3: the reason I'm doing that is because it's relaxed, because

1391
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 3: you can it's not there is a potential spooking something.

1392
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 3: But we're sitting more at long distance with the muzzleoders

1393
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 3: and and so. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't go

1394
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 3: out in the woods if I didn't think there was opportunity.

1395
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, it doesn't mean you don't have great opportunity.

1396
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 3: At the same time.

1397
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna be doing the same thing with my

1398
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 2: two boys over this coming weeks. And I'm excited. Great, Yeah,

1399
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: they are, They're very excited. So Jeff, real quick, where

1400
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: can folks find your latest content these days? Is there

1401
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 2: anything in particular you would say that they should check

1402
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 2: out in particular this time of year or anything you

1403
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: want to highlight.

1404
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 3: No, We're I'm pretty methodical on both YouTube and Instagram.

1405
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 3: Under White toil Habitat Solutions. And the one thing different

1406
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 3: with YouTube is I think since early October, I've probably

1407
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 3: uploaded maybe eighteen shorts, so I've been hitting the shorts

1408
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 3: more often that shows. Actually will have a hunt coming

1409
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 3: out about my Pennsylvania hunt, but I put that out

1410
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 3: on Monday right away. It's just so easy to put

1411
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 3: a minute video out kind of a recap, and then

1412
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 3: try to be pretty active on Instagram with the reels,

1413
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 3: and then also getting into the off season, whether it's

1414
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 3: building betting areas or scouting, there's a lot of quick

1415
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 3: tips that I try to do and try to put out,

1416
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 3: whether it's the short videos or Instagram reels. Put out

1417
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 3: those more often the pictures, and we're very very strict

1418
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 3: on that. And we still haven't missed four videos per

1419
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 3: week pace of our longer videos since the summer of

1420
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, so we keep a really strict pace on that.

1421
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 3: And so we put out two hundred and eight a

1422
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 3: year on that, and we'll priape on out right now

1423
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 3: about that pace about one hundred YouTube shorts a year

1424
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: or two, but we'll see how that goes. So between

1425
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 3: all of that and I try to put out fresh

1426
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:35,759
Speaker 3: content In fact, if I create a video for YouTube,

1427
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 3: I don't put it down in Instagram advice versa's try

1428
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 3: to get fresh stuff out and fresh ideas and kind

1429
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 3: of just follow what's going on in the white tail

1430
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 3: strategy world. Three sixty five. So we know through our

1431
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 3: website we have our lot Seed Company now it's all

1432
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 3: on white to apitat solutions dot com. We have a

1433
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 3: couple other products you might be launching this year. We're

1434
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 3: in the discussions of those, so we'll see in the

1435
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 3: future on that too. But we're just trying to eat

1436
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 3: the needs of our audience and what they're looking for.

1437
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 2: So if you were going to recommend one of your

1438
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: blends from your food Plot Seed Company for late season,

1439
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 2: what would be the thing you'd plant if you were

1440
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 2: looking for lates and success?

1441
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:24,640
Speaker 3: Oh boy, Well, Ourbraska blend is built to be a

1442
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 3: balance of blends where it's not all hard bulbs like

1443
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,679
Speaker 3: purple top, turnop, green Globe, and it's not all radish,

1444
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 3: which is more of an early blend, and it's not

1445
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:36,919
Speaker 3: all leaf, so it's kind of a blend of in between.

1446
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 3: Some of the blends are more slanted towards the big

1447
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 3: bulbs purple tops green globe that are usually more late season,

1448
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 3: so we want something that again establishing that pattern of

1449
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 3: use early like what the radish is. But then we

1450
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 3: have our fall Power greens, which is more a workhorse.

1451
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 3: We top with Rye more month later after planting Bolt

1452
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 3: as your plant in early August, Rye about a month

1453
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 3: later on the fall Power greens. So that's more of

1454
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 3: a kind of a do it all what someone would

1455
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 3: play it in the north and uh, and then we

1456
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 3: actually have a Northernbraska blend we're coming out with, like

1457
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 3: a non agg blend that we're coming out with going

1458
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 3: into this next season. So some of those green blends,

1459
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 3: a couple of different ones would be I recommend them

1460
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 3: as great.

1461
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 2: Well, you are a busy man, Jeff. You you are

1462
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: a content machine. So I watch him afar in amazement

1463
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 2: and admire your work because it's it's always good, it's

1464
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: always helpful, and your cadence is crazy. So good for

1465
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: you for pumping it out. I can't pump out as

1466
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 2: much stuff as you do, so thank you.

1467
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 3: It helps to have a good editor in Dylan, so

1468
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 3: he I just I just talk and build them. He

1469
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 3: just he edits everything, puts it together.

1470
01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 2: So's Yeah, Dylan is Dylan's great? Dylan? Yeah, awesome. Well,

1471
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 2: thanks you, thank you for this, Jeff. I really enjoyed

1472
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 2: it as always, and I'm sure a lot of folks

1473
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 2: will today.

1474
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate it. Thank you.

1475
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you everyone for tuning in. Hopefully enjoy

1476
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 2: that as much as I did. Lots to learn from

1477
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 2: Jeff as always, So get out there, enjoy this late season,

1478
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 2: put some of his ideas into action, and I truly

1479
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 2: believe you can still fill some tags here in these

1480
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 2: final weeks of the season. So that all said, thanks

1481
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 2: for being here, have fun out there, and stay wired

1482
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 2: to hunt.