1
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: All zone media.

2
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 2: In February of twenty twenty five, the President of the

3
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,040
Speaker 2: United States announced, first by social media and then by

4
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,919
Speaker 2: executive order that a white nationalist conspiracy theory is now

5
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:25,120
Speaker 2: official foreign policy. No longer relegated to racist message boards

6
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 2: and poorly attended rallies, the idea that white South Africans

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 2: are being violently persecuted is now center stage. In the

8
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,839
Speaker 2: months since the administration has doubled down on this stance,

9
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 2: foreign aid to South Africa has been suspended, their ambassador

10
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 2: has been expelled, and now State Department officials have begun

11
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,520
Speaker 2: interviewing white South Africans who have applied for refugee resettlement

12
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:57,200
Speaker 2: in the United States. Apartheid ended in South Africa thirty

13
00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 2: one years ago. It turns out some of the same

14
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 2: people who fought tooth and nail to keep it back

15
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 2: then are still around and they haven't stopped fighting. I'm

16
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 2: Molly Conger, and this is weird.

17
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: Little guys.

18
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,759
Speaker 2: You know, I don't like current events. I really prefer

19
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 2: to root around the past and piece together the odds

20
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 2: and ends of the life and crimes of someone who's

21
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 2: done hurting other people. I had a great time writing

22
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 2: five episodes about Dennis Mahon, a man whose career as

23
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 2: a white supremacist activist span decades. But when it came

24
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 2: time to write a follow up episode, I hate it

25
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 2: to have to tell you that, even though Dennis will

26
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 2: almost certainly die before he finish his prison sentence, the

27
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 2: one he got for sending a bomb to the diversity

28
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,799
Speaker 2: office in Scottsdale, Arizona, the current political climate finished what

29
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 2: he started. Republican politicians did what he couldn't do with

30
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 2: that bomb, and they closed that office. And we find

31
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 2: ourselves in something of a similar position now. These last

32
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 2: few episodes have been a wild, sprawling narrative about white

33
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 2: supremacist terrorism in South Africa in the final years of apartheid,

34
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 2: and I've learned a lot of history that I'd never

35
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 2: been exposed to before, and I've really enjoyed digging my

36
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 2: way out of some of these unexpected rabbit holes. But

37
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 2: it would be irresponsible of me to tell you such

38
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,640
Speaker 2: a long story and then leave you thinking that it

39
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 2: was over, that it ended in nineteen ninety four, that

40
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,960
Speaker 2: when apartheid ended, the international networks of right wing extremists

41
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 2: who'd done unspeakable things in its defense just faded away

42
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 2: because they didn't, and they don't always need guns and

43
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 2: bombs to get what they want. So we'll end this

44
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 2: mini series where we started it the White House back

45
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 2: in February. When I started down this path, I had

46
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,120
Speaker 2: just read the executive Order, the one titled addressing the

47
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 2: Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa. In the

48
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 2: week that order was signed, Trump had offered some insight

49
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 2: into what was going on in his head in this

50
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 2: post on truth social.

51
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 3: South Africa is confiscating land and treating certain classes of

52
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 3: people very badly. It's a bad situation that the radical

53
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 3: left media doesn't want so much as mention. A massive

54
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 3: human rights violation at a minimum is happening for all

55
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 3: to see. The United States won't stand for it. We

56
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,000
Speaker 3: will act also. I will be cutting off all future

57
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: funding to South Africa until a full investigation of this

58
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 3: situation has been completed.

59
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 2: And that episode back in February goes into more detail

60
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 2: about what he's getting at here. South African President Cyril

61
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 2: Ramaposa had recently signed the Expropriation Act into law. There's

62
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 2: a lot of misinformation and fear mongering built around a

63
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 2: very tiny kernel of truth. In there as a quick refresher,

64
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 2: The Expropriation Act does allow the Government of South Africa

65
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,679
Speaker 2: to expropriate land. That part's true, but only under certain

66
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 2: specific conditions. And it is fundamentally not really that different

67
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 2: from what we call eminent domain here in the United States,

68
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 2: and that's a power that was given to our government

69
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 2: by the Fifth Amendment. There's no racial component to it.

70
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,599
Speaker 2: Nobody's terrorizing white farmers. There's no language at all in

71
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 2: the Expropriation Act about race. I spent probably too long

72
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,480
Speaker 2: trying to look for clues that would help me guess

73
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 2: why he made that post on truth Social on February second.

74
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 2: Sometimes you can see a really clear direct line which

75
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 2: means something the president says or it does or posts online.

76
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 2: And the Fox News segment that he had just been

77
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 2: watching and that episode from back in February makes what

78
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 2: I think is a pretty good case for how Trump's

79
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 2: ideas about what's going on in South Africa were formed

80
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 2: back when he posted about it for the first time

81
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, and back in twenty eighteen, he tweeted

82
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 2: about South African land reform for the first time about

83
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 2: forty five minutes after he heard of it on an

84
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,280
Speaker 2: episode of Tucker Carlson. But on February second, twenty twenty five,

85
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,479
Speaker 2: he made that truth social post while he was sitting

86
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 2: on Air Force one en route to DC after a

87
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 2: weekend golfing in Florida. His public schedule for that day

88
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 2: doesn't give us much, but he did post several times

89
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 2: that evening about Fox News host Mark Levin, and he

90
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,480
Speaker 2: posted an old clip from Levin's show, and he reposted

91
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 2: one of Mark's old posts, and he posted in all caps.

92
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 2: Watched Mark Levin tonight on Fox News eight pm Eastern

93
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 2: Great Show, and Levin's show that evening doesn't seem to

94
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 2: have touched on the issue of South Africa, So honestly,

95
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you how the idea got into his head.

96
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 2: That night, after a long day on the golf course,

97
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 2: he posted it around six nineteen pm, and then forty

98
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 2: minutes later, as he's sitting on the tarmac after the

99
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 2: plane landed, he reposted it. And as he's leaving for

100
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:05,279
Speaker 2: the White House, a reporter asked him about the post. So,

101
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 2: on Tritoto, you said that you were going to touch

102
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 2: it from South Africa. Will you plan to cut eight

103
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 2: across other African nations, in white South and only South Africa.

104
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 3: Terrible things are happening in South Africa.

105
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 4: The leadership is.

106
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 5: Doing some terrible things, horrible things.

107
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 6: So if that's under investigation right now, we'll make a determination.

108
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 3: And until such time as we find out what South

109
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:31,480
Speaker 3: Africa is doing.

110
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 5: They're taking away land.

111
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 4: They're confiscating land, and actually.

112
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 3: They're doing things that are perhaps far worse than that.

113
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 2: The far worse than that at the end of his

114
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 2: remarks is almost certainly a reference to his belief in

115
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 2: the white genocide conspiracy theory, that false narrative that white

116
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 2: farmers in South Africa are being murdered in enormous numbers.

117
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 2: And later that same week, in February of twenty twenty five,

118
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 2: Donald Trump signed the executive order cutting off aid to

119
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 2: South Africa, and it also directed DHS and the State

120
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 2: Department to quote promote the resettlement of African er refugees

121
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: escaping government sponsored race based discrimination, including racially discriminatory property confiscation,

122
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 2: and so, in conjunction with his other executive orders ones

123
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 2: that suspended all other refugee resettlement operations, this now puts

124
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 2: white South Africans in a class all of their own.

125
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 2: They're the only people on earth who are so persecuted,

126
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,600
Speaker 2: who are suffering so terribly that they are deserving of

127
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 2: assistance from the United States. And the executive order ignited

128
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 2: a flurry of activity on the right, both in the

129
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 2: United States and in South Africa. Far right talking heads

130
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 2: rushed to book South African guests, and one man in

131
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 2: particular was very happy to oblige. In the last two months,

132
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,120
Speaker 2: Ernst Rootz has made the rounds. He's been interviewed by

133
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro, Matt Gates, Tucker Carlson, Jack Bestobic, and Jordan Peterson.

134
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 2: He's been on YouTube lives and shows that only exist

135
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 2: on Twitter. Somehow, he made an appearance on a show

136
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,200
Speaker 2: hosted by Rinaldo Grause, a South African YouTuber whose political

137
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 2: career was stopped dead in its tracks last summer. Just

138
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 2: days after he was elected to parliament, his own parties

139
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 2: stripped him of membership after video service to him calling

140
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 2: for the murder of all black people, and he used

141
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,080
Speaker 2: both the American racial slur that you're probably familiar with

142
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,120
Speaker 2: and a South African equivalent. And roots also gave an

143
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,400
Speaker 2: interminably long interview to a benign sounding website called the

144
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 2: White Papers Policy Institute, But as it turns out, the

145
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,680
Speaker 2: woman interviewing him has a long history of affiliation with

146
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:11,080
Speaker 2: neo Nazi groups, and Ernst Roots may sound familiar to you.

147
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, he visited the United States in his

148
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 2: capacity as the deputy CEO of the Africaner nationalist group Afroforum.

149
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 2: He met with federal government officials and right wing think tanks. Notably,

150
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,200
Speaker 2: he spent a day at the Heritage Foundation. He took

151
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 2: meetings with staffers for Ted Cruz, and during that visit,

152
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,839
Speaker 2: he appeared on an episode of The Talker Carlson Show

153
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 2: back when it was actually on TV, back when it

154
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 2: was appointment television for the president. And you might think

155
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 2: that Ernst Roots would have nothing but praise for Trump's

156
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 2: executive order. Right, He's finally getting this message out, someone

157
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,560
Speaker 2: in power is finally talking about this epidemic of white

158
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,840
Speaker 2: farm being murdered in South Africa, and he is He's

159
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 2: grateful for that, sure, but he doesn't think Trump's proposed

160
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 2: solution is the right one. Here's what he said when

161
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,199
Speaker 2: he sat down with Tucker Carlson at the end of February.

162
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 7: On one part of it says that they will grant

163
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 7: refugee status to africaners if they want to go to

164
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,319
Speaker 7: the US, which I don't think. In all fairness, we're

165
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 7: really grateful for the public stance taken by the US,

166
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 7: and in a certain sense they haven't gone far enough.

167
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 7: But in a certain sense, I don't think the granting

168
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,079
Speaker 7: of refugee state is much of a solution. Some people

169
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,200
Speaker 7: will take that up. But that's why I told you

170
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,199
Speaker 7: the story of the Battle of Blood River and the

171
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,439
Speaker 7: vow we are culturally very very attached to South Africa.

172
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 2: And here he is telling Jordan Peterson the same thing

173
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,120
Speaker 2: a few weeks later.

174
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 7: That's why I'm so grateful that we spoke about the

175
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,439
Speaker 7: history part at first is our concern is that if

176
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,479
Speaker 7: we just leave the country, our culture dissolves and our

177
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 7: communal identity dissolves and we become Americans or whatever and so.

178
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,160
Speaker 6: Well, plus the entire country descends into lawlessness, chaos and

179
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 6: everyone dies. Yep, right, because if all the white South

180
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,440
Speaker 6: African farmers leave, that's one hundred percent what will happen.

181
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 2: Ernst Rutz is a nationalist. He doesn't want to leave

182
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,560
Speaker 2: South Africa. He isn't being persecuted for his whiteness. He

183
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 2: just misses the days when white minority rule meant the

184
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:48,959
Speaker 2: persecution of everyone else. And in both those interviews, Ruts

185
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,640
Speaker 2: spoke at some length about the importance of the Day

186
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 2: of the Vow, about the covenant between God and the

187
00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 2: Africaner granting them that land they can't leave. Men like

188
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 2: Ernst Roots are still standing on the banks of the

189
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 2: Blood River waiting for God to sweep all the Africans

190
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 2: out of their way, and ahead of that whirlwind press Junket.

191
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 2: In February and March, Ernst Ruts actually resigned from his

192
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 2: position as head of the Afrikaner Foundation, and that was

193
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 2: an initiative under the umbrella of the Africanner interest group

194
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,319
Speaker 2: the Solidarity Movement, and Ruts says that he hadn't officially

195
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:33,200
Speaker 2: worked for Afroforum since twenty twenty three, but Afroform and

196
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 2: the Africaner Foundation are both just part of the Solidarity movement.

197
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 2: These are just facets of the same organization, and so

198
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 2: now in February of twenty twenty five, he no longer

199
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,079
Speaker 2: works for any of these organizations. He no longer works

200
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 2: for Solidarity at all, because it was Roots who got

201
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 2: the organization into some pretty hot water.

202
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,080
Speaker 7: Well, all they're saying that we've the organizations that I

203
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 7: was involved with at the time of committed treason, that

204
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 7: we've been charged for treason.

205
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 6: Even charged with treason.

206
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 7: Yeah for what for speaking well, among others, for me

207
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 7: speaking with you about what's happened as treason? Yeah, because

208
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,199
Speaker 7: it's bad mouthing your country.

209
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all made mistakes at work, but I

210
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,040
Speaker 2: can't imagine making such a mess of things that somebody

211
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 2: gets charged with treason. And he's watering that down a

212
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 2: little bit.

213
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 8: Right.

214
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 2: The accusation isn't just that he's bad mouthing the country.

215
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's legal in South Africa to say negative

216
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: things about the nation. But almost immediately after Trump announced

217
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 2: that he was cutting off aid to South Africa, a

218
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 2: lot of South Africans blamed Afro Forum. Members of mkanto

219
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 2: We sizway rallied outside of the police station in Cape

220
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 2: Town and announced that they were filing a criminal complaint

221
00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 2: against Affro Forum, accusing them of treason. And just a

222
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 2: quick note for those who aren't up to date on

223
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 2: their South African current events, I wasn't on Kandoce's way

224
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 2: is now its own political party. It does share a

225
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 2: name with the group that functioned as the paramilitary arm

226
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 2: of the African National Congress during the last decades of apartheid,

227
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 2: but as of a few years ago, it is a

228
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 2: political party.

229
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:28,560
Speaker 5: So just for clarity, the MK Party vehemently condemns the

230
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 5: trees and US actions of Africa Forum, which has deliberately

231
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 5: low it foreign powers to act against the sovereignty and

232
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 5: economic interests of South Africa. Their betrayal is nothing less

233
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 5: than an act of economic sabotage, a direct assault on

234
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 5: our nations independence.

235
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 2: From many South Africans, it was obvious Trump didn't come

236
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 2: up with this idea on his own. There is a

237
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: straight line between afrofums trips to the United States, their

238
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 2: appearances in American right wing media, their collaboration with American

239
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 2: think tanks, their English language propaganda videos targeting American audiences

240
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 2: on American platforms, and the end result, which was this

241
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 2: shift in US foreign policy. Even President Ramaposa has gone

242
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 2: on record blaming Afroform and Solidarity for spreading the lies

243
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,480
Speaker 2: about South Africa that led to Trump's executive order. He

244
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,280
Speaker 2: called the group unpatriotic in remarks before the National Assembly

245
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 2: in March.

246
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 8: Fact, whether that is treason US or not is a

247
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 8: meta that obviously our law enforcement agencies needs to look at.

248
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 8: The National Prosecuting Agency needs to look at that. But

249
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 8: I take a dim view, in fact, a very negative

250
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 8: view off what has ensued as they run around the

251
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 8: world bed mouthing their own country and putting their country

252
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:14,640
Speaker 8: into distribute, not by things that are happening, but by misinformation.

253
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: The matter has been confirmed to be under investigation, but

254
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,879
Speaker 2: there has been no decision announced by the National Prosecuting

255
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 2: Authority as to whether the case will proceed. When Ramaposa

256
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 2: gave those remarks on March eleventh, twenty twenty five, he

257
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 2: wasn't just talking about Ernst Roots going on.

258
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson.

259
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 2: Roots had in fact already resigned from Solidarity by the

260
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 2: time he returned to the US this year. But in

261
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 2: late February, a delegation from Solidarity paid a visit to

262
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 2: the United States. They posted quite a few videos of

263
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 2: themselves outside various government buildings in Washington, d C. They

264
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,600
Speaker 2: posted some videos of them standing in lobbies of government

265
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 2: buildings and one photo that appears to show the delegation

266
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,959
Speaker 2: touring the White House with visible visitors badges. There are

267
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 2: no photos of any members of the delegation that I

268
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 2: could find that show them with any actual US policymakers,

269
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 2: but they did take a couple of selfies in front

270
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,880
Speaker 2: of a sign that says Committee on Foreign Affairs. One

271
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 2: photo was taken outside the office of Senator Christopher Coons,

272
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 2: a member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and

273
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 2: its Africa and Global Health Policy subcommittee. Their press releases

274
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 2: about this visit don't name names, but they claim to

275
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 2: have met with senior officials within the Trump administration during

276
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 2: their visit.

277
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: There's no direct.

278
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 2: Claim made that they met with the President himself, although

279
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 2: one of them did post a cartoon style drawing of

280
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 2: the group that features a cartoon Trump standing with them

281
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,160
Speaker 2: in front of the White House, and that is perhaps

282
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: meant to insinuate that they were a to secure an

283
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 2: audience with the President. But one member of the delegation

284
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: posted something that is more interesting to me than a

285
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 2: selfie at the Capitol Building. On February twenty seventh, Jako

286
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 2: Kleinhans wrote Day three in Washington, d c. Who influences

287
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 2: US government policy a complex network of individuals, organizations, and

288
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: governmental and non governmental structures worked daily to develop US

289
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 2: government policy. Recent policy decisions on the relationship with South

290
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: Africa have been developed by a few key players at

291
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: influential organizations, together with policy specialist in the White House

292
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 2: and Congress. The Solidarity Movement delegation currently visiting the USA

293
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,479
Speaker 2: met on day three with several of these influential people

294
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 2: with whom we have forged good relationships over the past

295
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: few years, to discuss a way forward. And underneath this

296
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: wall of text posted in Afrikaans is a selfie. Visible

297
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 2: in the photo behind Jacko is the entrance to the

298
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 2: offices of the Heritage Foundation. That conservative think tank is not,

299
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, publicly commented on the

300
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 2: recently serviced allegations that they worked closely with South African

301
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: military intelligence to craft propaganda campaigns during the latter years

302
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: of apartheid. South African news outlet The Daily Maverick did

303
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 2: take extra care to note in their article that the

304
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,880
Speaker 2: Heritage Foundation has made no legal challenge to the twenty

305
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 2: twenty one book by a former South African policeman who

306
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 2: claims that former Heritage Foundation president Edwin Fulner was often

307
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 2: consulted for advice by South African intelligence operatives who ran

308
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: the government's apartheid disinformation campaigns. And if you can remember

309
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,640
Speaker 2: all the way back to the first episode in this series,

310
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: the first time Trump tweeted about South Africa, he was

311
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 2: watching Tucker Carlson interview a policy analyst from the Heritage Foundation.

312
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 2: Just something to mull over, I guess and whoever it

313
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: was that the delegation was able to meet with at

314
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 2: the White House, that person received an official memorandum from Solidarity,

315
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 2: and they also posted that document to their website. Much

316
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: like Ernst Rutz, they're grateful to the Trump administration for

317
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 2: raising awareness about the plight of the white South African

318
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 2: but they too want the United States to use its

319
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 2: power to pressure South Africa to bend to the will

320
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: of whites, rather than simply offering those aggrieved white South

321
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: Africans the opportunity to settle in the United States. Much

322
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,479
Speaker 2: of the text of this memorandum reads pretty transparently as

323
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: an attempt to smooth over the whole treason situation. They

324
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: emphasize repeatedly that they do not support Trump's decision to

325
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: cut off humanitarian aid, and they urge Washington not to

326
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: suspend the African Growth and Opportunity Act, a US law

327
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: that allows some African nations, including South Africa, tariff free

328
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: access to US markets. And as much as they appreciate

329
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: Trumps offer to take Africaners as refugees, they want to stay.

330
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: One section of the memo reads, although individuals may qualify

331
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: for a resettlement program, the majority of Africaners will still

332
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: remain in South Africa. During the past thirty years, Africaners

333
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: have begun to establish cultural infrastructure in South Africa so

334
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 2: that we can still live here freely and safely in

335
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 2: order for us to make a sustainable contribution toward the

336
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: country and all its people. This is being done under

337
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: the banner of the Solidarity movement, with Solidarity and AFROFUM

338
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 2: being the largest organizations. Security structures, social structures, job structures,

339
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: training structures, and cultural structures have been established. All of

340
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: this is being done without state support, and at the

341
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 2: bottom of that section they make several recommendations. They recommend

342
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: the United States should, instead of offering refugee resettlement, offer

343
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 2: direct aid to these Africaner communities quote to assist with

344
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: community infrastructure protecting Africaners. This includes security structures, social structures,

345
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 2: job structure, training structures, and infrastructure to settle africaners in

346
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: vulnerable places in a concentrated manner. So they're saying they

347
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: want help moving all of the white people to a

348
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: place in South Africa. Still they don't want to leave

349
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: South Africa, but they need help moving all of the

350
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: white people into a concentrated place. So a place that's

351
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: all white, and that sounds kind of like a mini

352
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: ethno state, a folkstot, if you will, an island of

353
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: apartheid and a sea of integration, and that does in

354
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: fact already exist. And here's where I have to confess

355
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: something to you. I overlooked something in retrospect pretty obvious.

356
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: Remember I said a few minutes ago that Ernst Rutz

357
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: had resigned from his position with Solidarity and his trip

358
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: to the United States in March of twenty twenty five

359
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: was totally separate from this delegation. Well it might not

360
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: have actually been that separate. I mean they flew here separately,

361
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: They were here during different weeks, and they claimed to

362
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: be from separate organizations. Roots was here in the United

363
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: States with used Stridum, the current sy of Urania, a

364
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: white separatist community in South Africa's Northern Cape province. Yako Kleinhans,

365
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: the International liaison for Solidarity, who was here with that

366
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: other delegation. He used to be the CEO of Irania.

367
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 2: He and his family live there. His wife, Magdalen, was

368
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: featured in a Guardian article about the community in twenty nineteen.

369
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: She runs the call center in Irania that recruits members

370
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: and solicits donations. So they're the same people. The Venn

371
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: diagram is a circle. They present slightly different public faces.

372
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 2: I mean, Solidarity was allowed into the White House while

373
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: the delegation officially from Irania was stuck doing events like

374
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: Wine Wednesday at the New York Young Republicans Club.

375
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: But it's sort of like.

376
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: How sometimes the name brand ketchup and the store brand

377
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: ketchup are made at the same factory and they just

378
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 2: package them in different bottles. The two groups traveled the

379
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: United States separately a few weeks apart. They met with

380
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: slightly different crowds and marketed the message ever so slightly differently.

381
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 2: But ultimately what they want is for the United States

382
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: to officially recognize their three point five square mile whites

383
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: only town of three thousand people as an autonomous state.

384
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: And in February, while that first delegation, the one from

385
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 2: Solidarity was in Washington, d C. An American neo Nazi

386
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: group posted photos of their trip to South Africa. A

387
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: regional chapter within the Active Club Network visited Urania quote

388
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: to gain a deeper understanding of how whites can form

389
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: intentional communities. During the first week of March, the delegation

390
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: from Solidarity finished out their trip in the United States

391
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: with a visit to California. Specifically, they went to Los Angeles.

392
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: More specifically, they had lunch with Joel Poum, the editor

393
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: at large of the far right rag Breitbart. After lunch,

394
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: Pollock tweeted a photo captioned just had lunch at a

395
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: kosher restaurant owned by Steven Spielberg's mom with four gentlemen

396
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: from afroform Slash Solidarity. The South African government is investigating

397
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: them for treason for the crime of sharing their views

398
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: of Americans. The treason was delicious, okay, Joel, not to

399
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 2: nitpick and first of all, super cringe, but Steven Spielberg's

400
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: mom is dead. Lea Adler, Spielberg's mother did open the

401
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: restaurant The Milky Way in Los Angeles, in nineteen seventy seven,

402
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: but the restaurant closed after her death in twenty seventeen.

403
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 2: Her children reopened the restaurant in twenty nineteen. So it

404
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 2: is still the same restaurant in the same place, but

405
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: it isn't owned by a woman who's been dead for

406
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: eight years. But it's probably much more important that you

407
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: know one other fact about this lunch. At the time,

408
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: in the first week of March of twenty twenty five,

409
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: Joel Pollock was widely believed to be Trump's pick for

410
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: ambassador to South Africa. There'd been no official public nomination,

411
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: but Pollock was out there telling people that and going

412
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: on the news in South Africa to that effect. And

413
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: after lunch, Yacho Kline Hunts from Solidarity reposted that picture

414
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: and offered his full throated endorsement of Pollock's appointment as ambassador.

415
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: But barely two weeks after that lunch, Joel Pollock's chances

416
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 2: of getting that job dropped to mere zero. Things were

417
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: already a little dicey for him, considering he'd been publicly

418
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 2: calling for sanctions against President Cyril Ramaposa personally, specifically because

419
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: of South Africa's continued opposition to the genocide and Gaza.

420
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: But the nail in the coffin really seems to have

421
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: been his direct, per personal involvement in the expulsion of

422
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: South Africa's ambassador to the United States. On March fourteenth,

423
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, the United States of America expelled the

424
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: foreign diplomat. This sort of thing happens from time to time.

425
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: Article nine of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations establishes

426
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: a pretty broad authority for this quote. The receiving state may,

427
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: at any time, and without having to explain its decision,

428
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: notify the sending state that the head of the mission

429
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: or any member of the diplomatic staff of the mission

430
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: is persona non grata. It wasn't uncommon during the Cold War,

431
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: usually after allegations of espionage, whether real or imagined, and

432
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: it can be a way for a country to send

433
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: a political message, to say to a country, we're kind

434
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: of upset with you right now, even if the diplomatic

435
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: staff themselves haven't done anything wrong. Several countries expelled Syrian

436
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: diplomats in twenty twelve in response to the murder of

437
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: civilians in Hala. In twenty twenty one, President Aragon declared

438
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: diplomats from ten countries persona non grata and Turkey after

439
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: those countries governments had called for the release of an

440
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: imprisoned Turkish activist. Several Israeli diplomats were expelled from Britain

441
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: and Australia in twenty ten after both countries discovered that

442
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: Israel had used forged British and Australian passports to carry

443
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: out assassinations in Dubai. In twenty eleven, the US ambassador

444
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: to Ecuador was expelled after Wikilik's revealed that she believed

445
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: President Korea had been aware of corruption within his police force,

446
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: and the United States responded by expelling Ecuador's ambassador in return.

447
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's not even political. The decision may be

448
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: the result of personal misconduct by a member of the

449
00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: diplomatic staff. With some rather specific exceptions, ambassadors and their

450
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: staff have diplomatic immunity. They can't be prosecuted, but they

451
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 2: can be expelled. So for example, in twenty seventeen, New

452
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: Zealand had to expel an American diplomat after the man

453
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: got into some kind of violent physical altercation and the

454
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: American government refused to waive his diplomatic community so that

455
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: it could be prosecuted. In twenty twelve, the Philippines expelled

456
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: the Panamanian diplomat accused of rape. Honestly, a lot of

457
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: the examples of this that I found were related to

458
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: lower level embassy staff who got drunk, got a dui,

459
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: got into fights, or committed some kind of sex crime.

460
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: There have also been more than a few cases of

461
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: diplomats accused of using their position to facilitate drug trafficking.

462
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: So it does happen.

463
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: It doesn't even seem particularly rare, especially if you're including

464
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: these examples of lower level embassy staff who maybe got

465
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: in a bar fight, but it doesn't usually happen. By tweet,

466
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: let's work backwards. At four forty two pm Eastern Time,

467
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: on March fourteenth, twenty twenty five, Secretary of State Marco

468
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 2: Rubio tweeted South Africa's ambassador to the United States is

469
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: no longer welcome in our great country. Ibrahim Rusoul is

470
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: a race baiting politician who hates America and hates Potus.

471
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: We have nothing to discuss with him, and so he

472
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: is considered persona non grad up. That last bit is

473
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: in all caps, which is why I had to yell it,

474
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: and for the record, on that read, I did pronounce

475
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: Ibrahim Russul's name Ibrahim Razul, which is his name. But

476
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: in this I guess official State Department tweet, Marco Rubio

477
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: did misspell his name as Emra him Ressool, So take

478
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: that as you will. But Rubio's tweet included a link

479
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: to a Breitbart article, the headline of which is South

480
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: African Ambassador Ibrahim Razul Colan Trump is leading global white

481
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: supremacist movement. The article, written by Joel Pollock, had gone

482
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: up earlier that same day. Article might not be the

483
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: right word for it. I don't know what you call

484
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: what appears on Breitbart's website, but Pollock only actually wrote

485
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: six sentences in the original piece, but those sentences frame

486
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: the actual content. It's a video clip accompanied by a

487
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: transcript of the video of statements made by South African

488
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: Ambassador Ibrahim Rasul during a webinar hosted by the Mapungubwe

489
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: Institute for Strategic Reflection, a South African think tank just

490
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: called MISTRA for short.

491
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 9: What Donald Trump is launching is an assault on incumbency

492
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 9: those who are in power by mobilizing a supremacism against

493
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 9: the incumbency at home, and I think I've illustrated abroad

494
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 9: as well.

495
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: He was speaking to a small group of academics and

496
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: rasseul is talking about the ways in which American politics

497
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: have changed. He later explained to a reporter, my remarks

498
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: were speaking to South African intelligentsia, intellectuals, political leaders, and

499
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: others to alert them to a changed tradition in the

500
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: United States that the old way of doing business with

501
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: the US was not going to work.

502
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 4: Now.

503
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: I watched most of that webinar. I'm not gonna lie in.

504
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: It's two hours long. I didn't watch all of it.

505
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: I watched most of that webinar, but I watched all

506
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: of the parts where Ibrahim Razu speaking, and nothing he

507
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: said felt shocking to me. He wasn't being hysterical or hyperbolic.

508
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: He's not tearing his hair and gnashing his teeth. He

509
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: had some interesting observations about the way the white South

510
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: African functions as a rhetorical dog whistle for white victimhood

511
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: within Trump's narrative, But he didn't say anything wild. He's

512
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: not calling for violence or talking about radical shifts in policy.

513
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: He's a diplomat, right. He was just making correct observations

514
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: about the political climate that it is his job to navigate.

515
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: But those remarks, with Joel Pollock's six sentences of commentary,

516
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: made their way to Marco Rubio within hours, and by

517
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: that afternoon, Rubio had declared Rasoul persona nograda and ordered

518
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: him to leave the United States. When Rozoul arrived home

519
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: in South Africa on March twenty third, he issued a

520
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: statement He's standing by what he said about the Trump administration,

521
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: and his four page statement has some real bangers. It

522
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 2: goes pretty hard as far as diplomatic statements go. Quote,

523
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 2: when we have been the victims of apartheid and saw

524
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: how it cannot tolerate free speech and independent judiciary or

525
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: even peaceful dissent, then we can smell the birth of

526
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: chauvinism globally since the fear it engenders. Hear its words

527
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: and see its signs. And Razul says that quote. In

528
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: meetings with Senators and Congress members, and in the weekly

529
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: forums we addressed of think tanks and business associations, and

530
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: in the few meetings with the administration, we were forced

531
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: to discuss seriously how Africaners could be refugees in the USA,

532
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: while A and C leaders are threatened with personal sanctions,

533
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: we had to have void arguing how there was a

534
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: genocide in Israel. But diplomacy is not the art of lying.

535
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: It is the art of telling the truth gently and constructively.

536
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: Pollack sees on one line of that statement, in particular,

537
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: a parenthetical mention of an anonymous participant in the webinar,

538
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: who Rasoul calls one ex South African anti intellectual hatchetman

539
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: hiding under a pseudonym, and that's obviously a reference to

540
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: Joel Pollock. Rasoul is implying that Pollock himself not only

541
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: joined that webinar live, but participated in it without disclosing

542
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: his name or affiliation, and in this case his affiliation

543
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: would be editor of American conservative website Breitbart dot com

544
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: and also current contender for American Ambassador to South Africa.

545
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: Because during the Q and A portion, the moderator read

546
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: submitted questions out loud, and when he did so, he

547
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: read the question asker's name, and when the question was

548
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: from a reporter, the name of the outlet. The very

549
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 2: first question though, was from anonymous.

550
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 4: First, because I like to start with something funny, an

551
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 4: anonymous comment for Ambassador Usoul Ambassador to Ssool's analysis of

552
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 4: the US may be correct. However, he's doing South Africa

553
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 4: no service by speaking this way. His job is to

554
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 4: represent South African interests in Washington, not to be a

555
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: left doing militant Ambassador Zoul.

556
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: Now, can I tell you for sure that that question

557
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: was submitted by Joel Pollock? Of course not, but that

558
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: appears to be what Ibraham Razool is implying in his

559
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: statement that he believes that Pollock tweeted a screenshot of

560
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 2: that portion of the statement and said ex Ambassador Ibrahim

561
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: Rescuol believes he was done in by a spy. Good

562
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: luck hunting. I watched his remarks on YouTube after they

563
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: had been publicly available at Miestra's channel for hours. Is

564
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: incompetence a defense to defamation in South African law? So

565
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: Pollack is in this tweet insinuating that he could sue

566
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: Ibrahim Rescoul for defamation for implying that Pollock was in

567
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: the webinar. I don't know anything about South African law,

568
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: but I don't think in an American court a claim

569
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: of defamation would hold up because he didn't actually say

570
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: Joel Pollock's name. I guess if Joel Pollock identifies publicly

571
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: as an anti intellectual hatchet man, he's welcome to make

572
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: that argument in court. But I digress, because back to

573
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: his actual acclaim, he's saying he wasn't in the webinar live.

574
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: He watched the replay on YouTube hours after the ended.

575
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 2: And the problem with that is that it isn't true.

576
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: The webinar was live. You could pre register and participate

577
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: in the Zoom meeting, or you could just watch it

578
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: live on YouTube. And the event was from ten am

579
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: to noon Johannesburg time, and that means that it started

580
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 2: at four am here on the East Coast and one

581
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: am in California, which is where Joel Pollack lives. And

582
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: I'm reasonably certain he was indeed in California that day

583
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: because the night before he posted a photo of the sunset,

584
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: and that morning he posted a photo of the sun rise,

585
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: and both photos were posted at the time that the

586
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: sun rose and set in the part of California where

587
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: he lives, and there are visible palm trees. So when

588
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: Joel Pollock tweeted the link to his article at eight

589
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: forty five am Eastern time, that's five forty five am,

590
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 2: where he lives, and the source code for the web

591
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: page shows that the article went live at eight thirty

592
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: five am Eastern. Again, that's five thirty five am Pacific,

593
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: and that's two and a half hours after the event ended.

594
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: Those six sentences didn't take two hours to write, but

595
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: he would have had to download the entire video, cut

596
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: the sections he wanted to post, transcribe those sections, and

597
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 2: get everything onto the website. The other problem, though, is

598
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 2: not how long it would have taken to cut the clips.

599
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 2: It's that he could not have watched a two hour

600
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: video and then written the article if he didn't start

601
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: watching the video until quote hours after the event ended

602
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 2: and the final video was available for playback online. An

603
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: op ed written by the director of the think tank

604
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: that hosted the event takes aim at Pollack, arguing that

605
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 2: it was no accident that his article made its way

606
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: to the White House so quickly. Quote Russeul has been

607
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: articulating these views and other interactions with US audiences. The

608
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: difference in this case is that Joel Pollack at Breitbart

609
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: News himself campaigning to be US ambassador in South Africa,

610
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: selectively quoted from Russeul's presentation deliberately to incite the US administration.

611
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: But Joel Pollock got what he wanted, kind of. He

612
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: got Ibrahim Russeul expelled from the United States, got him fired.

613
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 2: Ibrahim Russeul isn't the ambassador to the United States anymore.

614
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a monkey's paw situation for Joel Pollock,

615
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: though the whole affair ended up ruining his own ambitions

616
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: of becoming an ambassador. Within days of all this going down,

617
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: Julius Malema's Economic Freedom Fighter's party vowed that they would

618
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: block Pollock from entering South Africa at all if he

619
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: was appointed ambassador, and they said that they could ensure

620
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: President Ramaposo wouldn't accept the appointment. A presidential spokesman was

621
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: a little more diplomatic about this, but they did go

622
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: on the record that the President was concerned about the

623
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: possibility of Pollock being appointed ambassador because quote, he is

624
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: engaged in a very divisive and very damaging manner towards

625
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: South Africa and South Africa related issues. By March twenty six,

626
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: just twelve days after Pollock's post cost Ambassador to School

627
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: his job, it was clear that he'd cost himself the

628
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: ambassador's job to Trump boasted on Truth Social that he

629
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: would be nominating Brent Bozell as the United States Ambassador

630
00:43:46,760 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: to South Africa. Brent Mozelle is not a better choice.

631
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of history behind that name, especially considering

632
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: he shares it with his father, Leo Brent Mozell the Second.

633
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: He was William F. Buckley's best friend and Joseph McCarthy's

634
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: speech writer. And then there is of course his son,

635
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: Leo Brent Bozell the fourth, who was convicted of five

636
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: felonies before getting pardoned along with all of the other

637
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: January six rioters. And we can't get into all that

638
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: not today. The thing you might be interested to know

639
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: about Leo Brent Mozell the Third is that he pretty

640
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: actively opposed the idea of ending apartheid, and not just

641
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 2: as a casual private opinion. This wasn't an ugly thought

642
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 2: he was having at home by himself.

643
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 8: No.

644
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty seven he was the head of the

645
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: National Conservative Political Action Committee, and in that capacity he

646
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 2: signed on as a coalition partner for a group called

647
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 2: the Coalition Against a n C Terrorism, and that year

648
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: the group hosted a summit to oppose a meeting between

649
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: the U S Secretary of State and Oliver Tambo, who

650
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: was at the time the leader of the African National Congress.

651
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: And speakers at the summit that they held included policy

652
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: analysts from groups like the Heritage Foundation. They also brought

653
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: in a South African political activist named John Gogotya. Gogatya

654
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: was the founder and leader of a political organization in

655
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 2: South Africa. It was allegedly a group of black moderates

656
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: who opposed multi racial democracy. Gogotya actually made several trips

657
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: to the United States to lobby against US sanctions on

658
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: the apartheid regime. He did turn out to be employed

659
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: by South African military intelligence, but you probably already guessed that.

660
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: That same year, nineteen eighty seven, Bozell produced a series

661
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: of television commercials urging Americans to write to the White

662
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: House to express their support for the Nicaraguan contras. Before

663
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: the commercials were released, Bozell attended a screening of the

664
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: videos with his special guest, Death Squad leader Adolfo Calero.

665
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: So there's definitely some baggage there for Bozell. The South

666
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: African Party that he was calling terrorists in nineteen eighty seven,

667
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: holds the presidency right now. Cyril Ramaposa, the current President

668
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: of South Africa, was one of the African National Congress's

669
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 2: negotiators during the talks that ended apartheid. While there was

670
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: some public uncertainty as to whether Ramaposa would admit Pollock

671
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: as an ambassador, I haven't seen any speculation that the

672
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: President would refuse to accept Bozell. But honestly, once Trump

673
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: posted that online that he was going to nominate Bozell,

674
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: there was not a lot of follow up to that,

675
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: so I guess we'll have to wait and see if

676
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: he's even confirmed. Because among the countless problems created every

677
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: day by the current administration is this lack of follow up.

678
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: It seems like every day the President just fires off

679
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: some half baked demand that doesn't really have any clear

680
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 2: force of law or plan for implementation, and maybe some

681
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: government office is working on implementing the new policy, and

682
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: maybe they aren't. It's hard to say that Executive order

683
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: back in February called for the Secretary of State and

684
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: the Secretary of Homeland Security to prioritize humanitarian relief, including

685
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 2: admission and resettlement through the United States Refugee Admissions program

686
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 2: for Africanners, and then a month later, on March seventh,

687
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: he posted on truth Social any farmer with family from

688
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: South Africa seeking to flee that country for reasons of

689
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: safety will be invited to the United States of America

690
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 2: with a rapid pathway to citizenship. This process will begin immediately.

691
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: A few weeks later, the website for the US Embassy

692
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: in South Africa posted a very generic set of FAQs

693
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 2: about the refugee admissions program, but it doesn't have any

694
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: information specific to this program or any particular timeline. It

695
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: just directs those who are interested in inquiring about the

696
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: program to send a message to a State Department email

697
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: address Pretoria PRM info, and the PRM there is the

698
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: abbreviation for the State Department's Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration,

699
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: So at the very least we know the State Department

700
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 2: set up an email address.

701
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 6: For this.

702
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: And a few days after that page went up, the

703
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: New York Times reported that they had obtained documents outlining

704
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 2: a plan that the administration was calling Mission South Africa,

705
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: and phase one of the plan was already under way.

706
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: The State Department had dispatched teams to convert vacant office

707
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: space in Pretoria for use by US officials who are

708
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 2: going to go over there and review the over eight

709
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: thousand applications that had already been received. And in last week,

710
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 2: on April twenty fourth, Reuters reported that US refugee officers

711
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: had in fact flown to Pretoria to begin interviewing the

712
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: applicants whose applications were successfully reviewed, and they report that

713
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: at least thirty Afrikaners who had applied for refugee resettlement

714
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: have had their applications approved.

715
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: The sources are.

716
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: All unnamed, and the White House and the Embassy declined

717
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: to comment. Anonymous Department of Homeland Security employees told Reuters

718
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: that applicants who claimed to have been persecuted by black

719
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: South Africans had gained preliminary approval. Another employee told the outlet,

720
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: I imagine some will be denied, as we do in

721
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: all cases, but I think there is administrative.

722
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: Pressure to approve these.

723
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: The article is careful to note that they attempted to

724
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: and were unable to verify the stories of persecution that

725
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: were shared with them by several of the applicants, and

726
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 2: the article ends with a quote from the only person

727
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 2: who gave their name a woman named Katya Biden. Biden

728
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 2: works with a very newly formed organization called Americaners. According

729
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: to their website, their mission is to assist South Africans

730
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: in navigating this process and successfully move to the United

731
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: States as refugees. The homepage has a very helpful set

732
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: of FAQs. You're basics like do I need a visa?

733
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: Do I need a lawyer? And they say no on

734
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: both of those, you don't need that. It's going to

735
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: be easy. They assure the reader that, of course you

736
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 2: can take your pets with you. The job market is

737
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 2: great there, and you don't need any vaccinations. My favorite question, though,

738
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: is will I have to prove persecution? And the answer

739
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 2: is no, you don't have to prove it. Quote no,

740
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: you don't. This requirement only occurs when an individual slash

741
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 2: group initiates the refugee status request where the circumstances in

742
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: the problem country are unknown. In the South Africa case,

743
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: the US is not only aware of the racial prejudice

744
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: towards minorities, but President Trump himself has laid out the

745
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: case to that effect. So there you have it. This

746
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: is the most obvious and clear cut case of persecution

747
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: that has ever existed in human history. People who are

748
00:51:54,600 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 2: fleeing active genocides, active war zones have to do that, yes,

749
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 2: but if you're a white person in South Africa, it's

750
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: very obvious that you are suffering, so don't even bother.

751
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: And the site assures prospective refugees that this program isn't

752
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: just for farmers, even though Trump seems to have been

753
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: motivated by the twin boogeymen of farm murders and farm seizures,

754
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 2: issues that even if they were real, would only affect farmers,

755
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: but the site assures the reader that all Africaners are eligible.

756
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: Guidance from the administration has been muddled and rare and contradictory.

757
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: In several of his comments, Trump is definitely using the

758
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: word farmers, but in the executive Order he does use

759
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: the word africaners. A statement from a State Department official

760
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: used the language descendants of settlers being abused by the government,

761
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: and a State Department document just as disfavored minorities. And

762
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 2: it sounds like everyone is just trying to avoid saying

763
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 2: white people. And I guess that's good news for Katya Biden,

764
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 2: that woman who works for the Americaners website. She was

765
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: wearing a make America Great Again hat when she showed

766
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: up at the embassy for her interview, But she isn't

767
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: a farmer. According to her personal website, she is a

768
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 2: self love coach. For just two hundred dollars an hour,

769
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 2: you can call Katya on Zoom for a one on

770
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 2: one faith based trauma recovery session to heal from your

771
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: toxic relationships. It's audio only, though, she is not going

772
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: to turn on the camera, not even if you buy

773
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: the twenty dollars twelve week Self Love Journey mentoring package.

774
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 2: Aside from Biden, everyone Reuter spoke to declined to be

775
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: named in the article, so it's hard to s out

776
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: how many people went in for interviews, what their stories

777
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: are if they're all sincere. But I did find one

778
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 2: woman on Facebook who has been posting in multiple groups

779
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 2: for Africaners interested in moving to the United States, and

780
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: she actually started posting about this a few days before

781
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: The New York Times broke the story that US officials

782
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 2: had begun conducting the interviews in Pretoria. So I'm inclined

783
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: to believe she is talking about a real thing that

784
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: happened because she couldn't have pulled this from the news.

785
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: So a few days before that story broke, a woman

786
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: named Anna Lee posted, Hi, everybody, my husband and I

787
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 2: just finished our preliminary interview with the US Embassy in Pretoria.

788
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: From what I understand, the interviewers were delegates SLASH, representatives

789
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 2: of the Bureau of Population Refugees in Migration US Department

790
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: of State just sent to South Africa for this week's interviews.

791
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: Traveling back to the US tonight, she stated in our

792
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: invitational email, but this interview was to collect information on

793
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: individual's experience, not for a f application. She was very polite,

794
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: asked us a few basic questions, then spent most of

795
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 2: the ninety plus minutes asking, listening, and typing our life

796
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 2: experiences and instances where SLASH when we were affected, deprived, persecuted,

797
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: or wronged due to our race. A lot of detail

798
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 2: was asked. Most of the focus was on these specific experiences,

799
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: and she goes on to say that she doesn't have

800
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: much more information, but she was told that she'll hear

801
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: from Homeland Security in the coming weeks and that officers

802
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: from the US Refugee Admissions Program will be arriving in

803
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 2: South Africa sometime soon. Unnily and her husband do not

804
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 2: appear to be farmers. Her husband is a real estate agent.

805
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 2: They have several adult children, and they appear to be

806
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: financially secure enough to enjoy the occasional international vacation. But

807
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting that she noted how fixated

808
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 2: that State Department employee was on collecting anecdotes about white persecution.

809
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: They spent most of that hour and a half long

810
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: interview trying to get them to talk about times where

811
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 2: they'd experienced anti white racism. And then just last week,

812
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: on April twenty fifth, Katyabeden, that employee of the Americaners Network,

813
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: tweeted that the first South African families approved for resettlement

814
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: in the United States will arrive here quote next week, which,

815
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: if she's telling the truth, would mean that they could

816
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 2: already be here as you're listening to this. The administration

817
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 2: has still not offered any clear explanation of how the

818
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 2: process works or if it's already underway. So it's possible

819
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 2: she's making that up to keep people hopeful, to keep

820
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 2: them going to her website. But it's equally possible that

821
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 2: the Trump administration plucked a couple of the most racist

822
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: families in South Africa and just put them on a

823
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 2: plane to Georgia or something. We don't know. Will Trump

824
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: follow through on any part of this hard to say

825
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: there is so much more to say about this story,

826
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: especially because turns out it isn't over. But I know

827
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: this story has been going on for too long because

828
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: I'm starting to recognize the words when I open a

829
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: web page that's in Afrikaans. I had imagined a much

830
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 2: tidier ending to this story, one that I poured two

831
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: months and more than fifty thousand words into. But to

832
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: be quite honest with you, I watched way too much

833
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: Trucker Carlson this week, and I'm trying to have a

834
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 2: wedding in a couple of days. I won't be back

835
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: with brand new, full length episodes for the next two weeks,

836
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: but I am going to try to get something together

837
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: so that there's something for you on your feed while

838
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 2: I'm gone, so you won't.

839
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: Miss me too much.

840
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 2: So be good to each other, and please don't do

841
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: anything that's going to make you one of my weird

842
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: Little guys. Weird Little Guys is a production of The

843
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 2: Poolzone Media and iHeartRadio. It's research, written and recorded by

844
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 2: me Mollie Conger. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and

845
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: Robert Evans. The show is edited by the wildly talented

846
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 2: Rory Gigan. The theme music was composed by Brad Dickert.

847
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: You can email me at Weird Little Guys Podcast at

848
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: gmail dot com. I will definitely read it, but I

849
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 2: probably won't answer it. It's something personal.