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Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel, and today we're

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Speaker 1: talking why you should eat the avocado toast with Justin

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Speaker 1: and Haley Brown's Wood. Okay, so the supposed luxury of

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Speaker 1: avocado toast along with the latte, it's become an okay

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Speaker 1: boomer personal finance tip, right. Stop spending on those two

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Speaker 1: things and you'll finally be able to create some financial

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Speaker 1: margin in your life. Cue the eye roll. Nobody thinks

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Speaker 1: that's real life. And my guest today are proof that

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Speaker 1: you can grow up without any real money knowledge. You

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Speaker 1: can quickly churn through a six hundred thousand dollars settlement.

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Speaker 1: You can still pay off six figures in debt all

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Speaker 1: on a teacher salary. Lot packed into this one today.

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Speaker 1: Justin and Haley Browns Woods are one of my favoritavorite

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Speaker 1: couples in the personal finance space. Fun facts they met

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Speaker 1: on Okay Cupid back in the day. We can talk

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Speaker 1: about that, guys if you want. They loathe Dave Ramsey,

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Speaker 1: which we will get into as well, and now they're

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Speaker 1: financial counselors. They use their empathetic abilities and their hard

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Speaker 1: fought money wins to help others overcome money hang ups,

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Speaker 1: tackle debt and heal their relationship with money. So, Haley

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Speaker 1: and Justin, thank you for joining me today on the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so exciting. Thanks for celebrating us there.

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Speaker 1: Oh you got okay so okay Cupid? How'd that go down?

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Speaker 1: Who reached out to?

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Speaker 4: Who?

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Speaker 1: Tell me the love story?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? This is like my favorite story.

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Speaker 2: But he really likes to bash me here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I really do.

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Speaker 5: I found Haley on okay Cupid and another dating site

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Speaker 5: at the same time. Plenty of fish, Yeah, plenty of fish,

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Speaker 5: not tender, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: But I reached out to her and she ghosted.

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Speaker 5: Me for like two weeks no way, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 5: what the heck, We're ninety four percent compatible?

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Speaker 3: What's going on here?

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Speaker 5: And eventually she messaged me and said, I'm sorry I

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Speaker 5: had to sift through just gross messages from other people.

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Speaker 5: I bet here I am, and we sparked a conversation

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Speaker 5: and the rest is history. We're actually celebrating our seven

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Speaker 5: year anniversary today.

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Speaker 3: Joel today today.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations. I we could have found another day so you

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Speaker 1: didn't have to talk to me. Okay, yes, is great,

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Speaker 1: this is exciting stuff. I'm so thrilled for you happy anniversary.

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Speaker 1: I would have sent you some peers or something speaking

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Speaker 1: which first question I gotta ask you really is, what's

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Speaker 1: your craft bear equivalent? What do you guys like to

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Speaker 1: spend money on? Your super intentional, thoughtful about saving and

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Speaker 1: investing for the future. What do you splurge on in

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Speaker 1: the here and now?

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Speaker 5: I would say, for me, just in this season of life,

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Speaker 5: my guilty pleasure is fantasy football.

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Speaker 3: Not like daily gambling.

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Speaker 5: But I cannot turn down my friends and the fantasy

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Speaker 5: leagues I've been in for ten years, even though every

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Speaker 5: year I'm like, why am I doing this? I'm just

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Speaker 5: losing my one hundred dollars every year, But you know,

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Speaker 5: I figure one hundred dollars stretched out over five months

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Speaker 5: is worth it to me, and it reconnects me with

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Speaker 5: some of my friends.

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Speaker 3: So I would say it's probably fantasy football for me.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I really love spending money on myself. I love

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Speaker 4: self care. I feel like it is life giving. And

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Speaker 4: being a mom of three kids five and under and

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Speaker 4: running a business from home with the kid at home

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Speaker 4: with us like it is chaos and I just need

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Speaker 4: to step away and go get my nails done. Or

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Speaker 4: go get my hair done and self care things really

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Speaker 4: fill my cup. So it's worth every penny.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I love it every time, love it. Those are

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Speaker 1: both great things. And you're right.

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Speaker 3: You're right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like all work and no play makes us

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Speaker 1: stol right, And that's kind of the heart behind some

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Speaker 1: of your brand which I want to get into as well,

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Speaker 1: and some of how you guys talk about money, which

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Speaker 1: I think is really refreshing. But before we get there,

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Speaker 1: let's start kind of with some of the story stuff.

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Speaker 1: And justin at one point you inherited six hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars and this is just this is like the craziest

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Speaker 1: story to me was this was this like the impetus

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Speaker 1: for you to get your finances together where you like boom,

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Speaker 1: large chunk of change. I guess I'm going to start

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Speaker 1: figuring out how to save effectively and invest wisely? Or

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Speaker 1: is that not how it went down?

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Speaker 3: That is definitely not how it went down. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: wish that was how it went down. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: In twenty fifteen, my grandmother passed away from mesothelioma, which

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Speaker 5: is as best as caused lung cancer. It's kind of

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Speaker 5: what all those commercials are talking about that's essentially what

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Speaker 5: my grandma went through. And in the process of her decline,

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Speaker 5: my grandfather started a wrongful death lawsuit on her behalf,

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Speaker 5: and when she passed away, that lawsuit finalized and money

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Speaker 5: came down to the kiddos. And so I received six

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Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars and two checks straight to my search

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Speaker 5: to my house where Haley and I were living. You know,

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Speaker 5: just go put him in the bank and five days

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Speaker 5: later you can have access to him. And I had

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Speaker 5: no financial education growing up, as you know, a kid

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Speaker 5: from a single mom household. Hailey was the exact same,

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Speaker 5: and so we really started to kind of just lean

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Speaker 5: into the things we thought were smart. And so I

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Speaker 5: went and caught up on two years of roth Ira

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Speaker 5: investing because somebody said you should talk to a financial advisor,

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Speaker 5: and we ended up buying a house or putting, you know,

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Speaker 5: a down payment down on a house because we thought, well,

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Speaker 5: we're supposed to own a home one day. But then

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Speaker 5: beyond that, we really just kind of inflated our lifestyle

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Speaker 5: and started to spend money in ways that we're bringing

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Speaker 5: us joy, but that we're not going to serve us

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Speaker 5: long term. And eventually, in about three and a half years.

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Speaker 5: Not only did we blow through the six hundred thousand dollars,

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Speaker 5: but we got into over two hundred and twenty thousand

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Speaker 5: dollars of debt just by inflating our lifestyle and again

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Speaker 5: quote unquote kind of doing the right thing, but not

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Speaker 5: knowing the right way to go about it.

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Speaker 1: M okay, yeah, Halo. What was that like for you?

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Speaker 1: As you know? And Justin said, Hey, neither of us

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Speaker 1: had much of a financial education growing up. We're usually

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Speaker 1: taught something about money, right, whether it's like good, bad,

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Speaker 1: and different. What was your financial education as a childlike

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Speaker 1: and how did that impact you?

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Speaker 2: My financial education as a child was just.

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Speaker 4: Observing a lot of what not to do from my parents,

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Speaker 4: kind of fumbling the ball quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we.

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Speaker 4: This happened in twenty sixteen where we got the money.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twelve, I watched my parents go through a

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Speaker 4: nasty multi year divorce. They lost two houses. Like it

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Speaker 4: was really financially like traumatic financial trauma is what it

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Speaker 4: was for me. So yeah, when Justin and I received

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Speaker 4: all that money was it was technically Justin's money one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent his, but we combined our lives fully from

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Speaker 4: the beginning, so I totally took part in spending all

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Speaker 4: of the money as well, and the education was nothing

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Speaker 4: about like what to do. I do have very vivid

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Speaker 4: memory of that time of us just casually transferring twenty

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Speaker 4: grand over from savings into our checking frequently, and we

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Speaker 4: didn't really realize the money was being spent until it

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Speaker 4: was totally gone, which is a really surreal thing to

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Speaker 4: go through, where money is quite literally slipping through your

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Speaker 4: fingers and you don't know it's happening, and then one

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Speaker 4: day you blink and you're like, wait, we had how

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Speaker 4: much money and it's gone. And I had had that

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Speaker 4: happen in my life before, with a very small inheritance

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Speaker 4: I got from my uncle. It was a twenty five

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars inheritance that I got right before I moved

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Speaker 4: to Sweden to study abroad, and I didn't have any

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Speaker 4: education about what to do with that money. And I

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Speaker 4: spent all of that in a year traveling, and then

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Speaker 4: nobody ever questioned it either. No one asked me what

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Speaker 4: I did with the money, no one asked me if

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Speaker 4: I invested.

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Speaker 2: It, or it was never talked about again.

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Speaker 4: So I think that it all comes back to the

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Speaker 4: financial education that I had was just silence. Nobody talked

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Speaker 4: about anything.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's abnormal either. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people go through. They see maybe bad

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Speaker 1: habits and then nobody talks to them about because you

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Speaker 1: know who would talk to them their parents, who don't

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Speaker 1: really know much about money either. And so yeah, that

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Speaker 1: sort of silence and just bad habits get passed down

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Speaker 1: through osmosis, and typically we're doing our behaviors reflect what

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Speaker 1: our parents did. Oftentimes I'm curious too, like during that

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Speaker 1: period where you were inflating your lifestyle and you were

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Speaker 1: spending more and so you know, justin not all of

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Speaker 1: it was bad. You started the roth Ira, you bought

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Speaker 1: a house, which at least like hey, there's that's not

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Speaker 1: a depreciating asset. But were you did you feel happy?

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Speaker 1: Were there unsettled feelings like during that time, like what

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Speaker 1: was going what was going through your mind and what

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Speaker 1: was your body feeling? Right as like you've got this

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Speaker 1: inheritance and you're spending it down.

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Speaker 5: To be quite honest, I think this is the part

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Speaker 5: that we might get some gruff for. We had a

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Speaker 5: great time, like we were going out on wine, dates.

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Speaker 5: We were traveling to get you know, six rows back

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Speaker 5: at the Titans game because I loved the Titans and

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Speaker 5: wanted to travel in Nashville all the way from California.

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Speaker 5: We upgraded to a townhouse that we were renting that

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Speaker 5: we probably didn't need to. We could have done way less,

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Speaker 5: but we had the money to go through, and so

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Speaker 5: we lived in this really nice part of town in

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Speaker 5: a really nice townhouse, and we upgraded you know the

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Speaker 5: things in there. We spent on a personal trainer. It

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Speaker 5: was just things that we really enjoyed in our lives.

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Speaker 5: We had nice cars. It's again probably the thing we're

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Speaker 5: gonna get gruff for, but yeah, it was nice.

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Speaker 3: It was a fun time in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I that makes sense, like spending money that

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Speaker 1: you have, Yeah, feels good, but also when you're done

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Speaker 1: with that, when it's gone, and then when you're also

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Speaker 1: in credit card debt, because you're like, man, we didn't

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Speaker 1: even stop after the money was gone. We kept going,

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Speaker 1: what does that feel like?

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Speaker 5: Well? I think that's the interesting part because I wasn't

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Speaker 5: aware of any of that. Haley really was managing the

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Speaker 5: finances for our entire household, and I thought she was

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Speaker 5: so great and just crushing it. And how lucky was

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Speaker 5: I that I found a partner who was willing to

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Speaker 5: shoulder this load that I didn't even really know what

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Speaker 5: was going on. I could see that Hailey was stressed

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Speaker 5: and we would maybe have a conversation about it, but

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Speaker 5: it wasn't really in the weeds with her, so I

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Speaker 5: wasn't even fully aware of it until about a year

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Speaker 5: after our wedding. At that point, the wedding was the

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Speaker 5: last time that we really spent any money from the

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Speaker 5: initial pot. We had a beautiful thirty thousand dollars wedding

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Speaker 5: and that was it. We ran out of money. And

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Speaker 5: a year into our marriage, we were taking a trip

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Speaker 5: to Monterey for our anniversary and we're like a week

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Speaker 5: into the month and Haley says, hey, our paychecks from

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Speaker 5: teaching are already gone, so the rest of the month

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Speaker 5: is going to be put onto credit cards. And that

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Speaker 5: was really the first conversation that I had of like, oh, whoa,

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Speaker 5: Like that's where that's not good. We're doing something wrong here,

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Speaker 5: Like we really screwed the pooch on this one. But

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Speaker 5: up until then I had no clue what was going on.

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Speaker 5: So I wasn't even fully aware of it. I'm sure

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Speaker 5: you probably were feeling way different than me at the time.

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Speaker 4: I tried to have conversations with him and bring up

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Speaker 4: the stress at different times, but because I didn't witness

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Speaker 4: people talking about money, I didn't really know how to

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Speaker 4: bring it up in a way that it just I

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Speaker 4: didn't know what I was doing. And right before that,

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Speaker 4: maybe like six months before that Monterey trip moment, we

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Speaker 4: actually listened to the entire Dave Ramsey Total Money Makeover

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Speaker 4: audiobook on a road trip, and that was the initial

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Speaker 4: seed plan in both of our heads off maybe there

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Speaker 4: is another way to get out of this debt, but

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Speaker 4: we didn't really do anything about it afterwards until we

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Speaker 4: have the moment of Okay, we really need to It's

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Speaker 4: not like maybe we should now now we need to

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Speaker 4: do something about this because we're in a pickle and

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Speaker 4: we need to get out of it. But like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know that looking back, i'd remember any time where

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Speaker 4: I said, hey, justin I'm really stressed. I feel like

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Speaker 4: we should be concerned. We've spent all of the money

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Speaker 4: from the initial six hundred thousand dollars pop.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we should slow it down.

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Speaker 4: I think it was just stressed that stayed inside and

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Speaker 4: wasn't ever made into words, and it's he's not dumb.

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Speaker 4: He could look at the bank and see that the

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Speaker 4: money wasn't there, but for some reason, it just didn't

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Speaker 4: click for us that it was gone. And I think

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Speaker 4: that when we really dive into all of that, it

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Speaker 4: comes from the way that we were raised with not having.

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Speaker 2: A lot of money.

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Speaker 4: We never had a lot of money, so when the

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Speaker 4: money was gone, it was like whatever, now we're just

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Speaker 4: back to natural state of just not having any money.

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Speaker 4: And it didn't really feel like a big stressor that

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Speaker 4: the money was gone until we realized how much debt

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Speaker 4: we were in.

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Speaker 1: That was stressful because then you're digging digging yourself out

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Speaker 1: of a hole. You're not just right, It is not

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Speaker 1: you just blew through. You're just like, okay, now we

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Speaker 1: actually have to get back to square one. And you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Dave Ramsey, and I do I have some questions

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Speaker 1: about that because he is the man you love to

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Speaker 1: hate at times, but you also he was an instrumental

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Speaker 1: part of your money journey, Like so totally were you

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Speaker 1: following his advice to a t How were you like

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Speaker 1: quickly like learning your own lingo, establishing your own flow.

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Speaker 1: You're like, all right, I'll take a few of these tips,

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Speaker 1: but now I'm going to go my own way. Like

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Speaker 1: what what was your relationship like with him with the

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Speaker 1: information that he delivers and how did it help you?

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Speaker 1: At least initially, we.

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Speaker 4: Leaned in on Dave Ramsey for support and for community

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Speaker 4: when we felt really lonely and we didn't really know

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Speaker 4: how to communicate with other people about all of our

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Speaker 4: debt and the current financial state that we were in,

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Speaker 4: and so that was super helpful. We never really followed

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Speaker 4: his system to a tea even from the beginning, but

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Speaker 4: we did listen to his show for three hours a day,

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Speaker 4: five days a week for about a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: Straight to the main vein Dave Ramsey. Yeah, yeah, I remember,

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Speaker 1: justin like you. At one point you talked about being

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Speaker 1: you listened to so much Dave and then I think

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Speaker 1: maybe you're commute ended or something like that, and You're like,

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Speaker 1: what am I going to listen to Dave? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's like an addiction for you.

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Speaker 3: It literally was.

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Speaker 5: I mean it was our first year of marriage and

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Speaker 5: I would say, like we would talk about uncle Dave

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Speaker 5: when we were in the shower together. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 5: like that's a very odd thing for a newlywed couple

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Speaker 5: to be talking about in the shower.

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Speaker 3: But it's just so like you said, we were just like.

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Speaker 5: Mainlining Dave Ramsey and it was it was all that

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Speaker 5: was consuming us was his content, even if we weren't

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Speaker 5: fully following his plan.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And as especially people who are in significant amounts

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Speaker 1: of debt like Dave, can be a really motivating force

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Speaker 1: for people who are in that spot in their lives.

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Speaker 1: So was that the kick in the pants you needed.

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Speaker 4: The system of just put your head down and hustle

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Speaker 4: and get it done did work very well for Jetson

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Speaker 4: and I. It worked very well for us specifically our

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Speaker 4: personality types and we are the type of people that

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Speaker 4: can just get it done. But what we've realized over

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Speaker 4: time we now work with people directly helping them with

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Speaker 4: their finances, is that is not normal. We are definitely

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Speaker 4: the anomaly in that situation for the average people who

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Speaker 4: can just like pay off debt super fast and stay

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Speaker 4: out of debt. So for us, it did work and

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Speaker 4: it was what we needed for sure in that moment.

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Speaker 1: One of the tips that I think Dave Gibbs and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about him for too long

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Speaker 1: feels a wile kind of meta multiple personal Finance creators

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Speaker 1: talking about this other personal vance creator. But he's a

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Speaker 1: big part of your story. And one of the tips

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Speaker 1: he gives for a lot of people who are in

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Speaker 1: this sort of phase what they have a lot of

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Speaker 1: credit card that they're trying to get rid of it

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Speaker 1: in short order is to work multiple jobs. Justin you

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Speaker 1: took that advice. Were you working like three jobs at

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Speaker 1: one point? And like what was that like for you?

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Speaker 1: I'm curious is the intensity maybe of some of the suggestions.

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Speaker 1: Does that feel approachable now or does it feel ridiculous?

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Speaker 1: Like how do you think about that period of time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty intense.

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Speaker 5: You know. I was teaching Monday through Friday, and then

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Speaker 5: I was bartending and serving pizzas at a pizzeri and

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Speaker 5: wine bar in the evening. And so I would get

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Speaker 5: home from teaching, I'd kiss Haley and our daughter, and

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Speaker 5: then I would go to the pizza joint and I

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Speaker 5: would serve and bartend from like four thirty to ten

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Speaker 5: o'clock at night, go home, and you know, put the

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Speaker 5: cash in the Manila envelope that David told us to

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Speaker 5: kind of track everything on, and then I.

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Speaker 3: Would wake up in the morning and do it again.

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Speaker 5: And actually, right before the pandemic, I ended up getting

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Speaker 5: a third job as a banquet server to try and

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Speaker 5: pick up extra days at a really nice restaurant in

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Speaker 5: Wine Country. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately because of the pandemic,

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Speaker 5: I never worked for that company, but you know, it

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Speaker 5: was fully prepared to have those three jobs. And you know,

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Speaker 5: Haley and I consistently talked about this idea and even

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Speaker 5: now with our clients. You can do just about anything

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Speaker 5: for a season and a reason, and there are seasons

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Speaker 5: of life where maybe you do want to hustle. Maybe

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Speaker 5: it helps you to get that side hustle where you're

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Speaker 5: you know, picking up a second job and throwing it

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Speaker 5: towards a goal or throwing it towards something. But it's

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Speaker 5: a very specific scenario. I think that fits that right.

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Speaker 5: I was a teacher during the pandemic, so I was

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Speaker 5: teaching from home. I was still seeing my family pretty frequently,

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Speaker 5: and then I was going to the pizza esta on it,

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Speaker 5: and so I didn't miss out on a ton of time.

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Speaker 5: If it were today, where things are opened up. Maybe

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Speaker 5: and I was back to work and I didn't have

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Speaker 5: as much time, it would be a lot more difficult,

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Speaker 5: you know. I only had to go through the stage

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Speaker 5: of only seeing them for an hour a day for

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Speaker 5: two months before the world shut down, and then I

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Speaker 5: was teaching from home. But for those two months it

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Speaker 5: was hard. It was really hard, And I don't know

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Speaker 5: if I would recommend that for most folks nowadays. I

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Speaker 5: think there are better ways to do it than that

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Speaker 5: kind of deprivation and that go go go kind of

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Speaker 5: hustler mentality. I don't even think I know there's better

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Speaker 5: ways to do it now.

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Speaker 1: Do you think some people burn out because of that

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Speaker 1: sort of intensity either, Like I have the right desire,

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Speaker 1: but my goodness, the sort of like boot camp mentality

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Speaker 1: just it's too intense for me. I'm just opting out altogether, definitely.

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Speaker 5: And I think for many people it's just kind of

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Speaker 5: recreating the diet culture fad of like you can do

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Speaker 5: anything if you just kind of race to burn out

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Speaker 5: as fast as possible. But the question is, did you

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Speaker 5: set up the right habits and patterns and behaviors to

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Speaker 5: not get yourself back.

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Speaker 3: Into that situation? And for many people, we don't.

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Speaker 5: We side hustle, or we find some debt payoff strategy,

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Speaker 5: we pay off debt. We're like whoo, and then we

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Speaker 5: look up two years later and we're back into that

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Speaker 5: debt because we never fixed any of the root causes.

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Speaker 3: And I think for us.

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Speaker 5: That certainly could have been part of our journey as

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Speaker 5: well if we didn't confront some things.

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Speaker 1: And your main gigs. You're both teachers in California. For

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Speaker 1: a lot of years, some people would say that overcoming

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Speaker 1: six figures of debt is impossible on like a teacher sound.

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Speaker 1: But it's not because you guys did it. So can

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Speaker 1: you talk to me about what that process was like,

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Speaker 1: the sacrifices you had to make, and kind of the

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Speaker 1: habits you had had to learn in order to make

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Speaker 1: that a possibility, and how long did it take to

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Speaker 1: pay off that debt.

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Speaker 4: The first thing we did was we just started meticulously

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Speaker 4: tracking every single dollar that was coming in and out

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Speaker 4: of our bank, and we cut everything that was any

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Speaker 4: form of extra We definitely cut the avocado toast and

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Speaker 4: we had a very basic bear budget. That's what we did.

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Speaker 4: But then it was also this is really important. It

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Speaker 4: was during the pandemic. We didn't leave the house, so

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Speaker 4: it was very easy for us to just not spend money.

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Speaker 4: We didn't do anything that was easy enough, and because

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Speaker 4: our budget was so fine tuned, any extra form of

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Speaker 4: money during that period of time. We got COVID stimulus money,

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Speaker 4: there was the child tax credit money. We were able

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Speaker 4: to put that extra towards everything, but a lot of

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Speaker 4: it did come from extra money from justin working. I

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Speaker 4: also was a real estate photographer at the time, very

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Speaker 4: part time, But any extra money that we got also

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Speaker 4: just fully funneled there. But we got it to a

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Speaker 4: point where we were able to have extra in our

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Speaker 4: budget from just our teaching salaries, so anything extra really

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Speaker 4: made a dent.

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Speaker 1: And how serious were you about debt eradication was it?

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously getting multiple jobs, willing to get a

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Speaker 1: third job, so pretty dang serious. And then didn't you

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Speaker 1: sell your home in order to go into a rental

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Speaker 1: instead because you wanted to take that equity to pay

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Speaker 1: off the debt? Like was it just kind of like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're throwing anything against the wall to see what sticks,

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Speaker 1: Like this is how much we hate this debt right now? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we ended up selling you know, paid off vehicles

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Speaker 5: that we had purchased, and that was a big chunk

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Speaker 5: to go towards student loans. The kind of final straw was, yeah,

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Speaker 5: selling our home and moving away. I think a catalyst

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Speaker 5: for that as well was that we were moving closer

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Speaker 5: towards Haley's mom and could have some help with childcare

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Speaker 5: as well while we had a young family, and so

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Speaker 5: we thought, Okay, are we comfortable making this decision right

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Speaker 5: now in this kind of early infancy of our family

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Speaker 5: to see where it's going to push us to. And

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Speaker 5: eventually we did sell our home, paid off a little

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Speaker 5: bit more consumer debt, but paused on paying off our

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Speaker 5: student loan debt because of the wild flux that is

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Speaker 5: student loan debt and also our own personal finance education journey.

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Speaker 5: The idea of paying off student loans that could potentially

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Speaker 5: be forgiven on your public service loan forgiveness as teachers

440
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 5: wasn't as beneficial as investing money instead.

441
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:34,959
Speaker 3: For us.

442
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 5: At that point, we had kind of grown out of

443
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 5: Dave Ramsey and that idea of fast track towards debt

444
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 5: and really started to decide what does the financial journey

445
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 5: look like decades from now? For our family, and how

446
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 5: can we get to that destination rather than the debt

447
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 5: free destination.

448
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: Haley, I'm curious to hear from you about those bigger

449
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: moves that you made. Do you feel like that's necessary

450
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: for most people? I mean, it sounds like you guys

451
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: took some of the biggest big moves possible, getting additional jobs,

452
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: selling the house to rent instead selling paid off vehicles.

453
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: A lot of people would say, like, have that sunk

454
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: cost fallacy sort of thing. Well, the vehicle's already appreciated

455
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: some I need a car to get around, right, I'm

456
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,719
Speaker 1: not gonna sell my car. How did you guys think

457
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 1: about the big stuff, and do you think that more

458
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: people should be willing to take more bold moves like

459
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: that instead of just nibbling around the edges when it

460
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: comes to debt payoff.

461
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 4: This kind of sounds Dave Ramsey ish, but I think

462
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 4: it depends on how fast and how bad you want

463
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 4: it in the season that you're in. The season we

464
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 4: were in was we need to pay this off as

465
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 4: fast as humanly possible, because that was our goal. But

466
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 4: a lot of people are like, if that was us

467
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 4: right now with young, young kids, I don't know that

468
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 4: those moves would be made. I don't know that we

469
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 4: would sell a very reliable vehicle that was paid off

470
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 4: in order to fast track things when we could just

471
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 4: keep that safe car for our family because we have

472
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 4: young kinds and we need to have a reliable vehicle and.

473
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: Just stretch that timeline out just a little.

474
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 4: Bit, right and it it really does come down to

475
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 4: the season of life that you're in. For us, it

476
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 4: was kind of a no brainer. But I've seen a

477
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 4: lot of people make those decisions and then they're kind

478
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 4: of like, well, maybe I didn't need to do that,

479
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 4: So it really depends.

480
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 1: All right, we've got I got a few more questions

481
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: I want to get to with you guys, including I

482
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: want to talk more about debt payoff hacks. I want

483
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: to talk about budgeting, y'all's takes on budgeting and just

484
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 1: how you've helped clients in a one on one way

485
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: really make progress with their money, not just with the numbers,

486
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: but with the way they think about it. We'll get

487
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: to some more questions with Justin and Haley right after this.

488
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 5: Art.

489
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: We're back still talking with Justin and Hailey. They are

490
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: from the Price of Avocado Toast and we're talking about

491
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: their story and just really how I don't know, maybe

492
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: it's okay to eat the avocado toast. I'm curious to

493
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: hear your take, guys, because you remember that was a

494
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: trope for so long. There was like the Latte Factor book,

495
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: and then it was like, man, if the millennials would

496
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: just stop eating that dang avocado toast, they could probably

497
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 1: reach financial independence in like three and a half years, right,

498
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: And some of it just feels utterly absurd, but there's

499
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: also like a little bit of truth right to the

500
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: small things that we do every day that add up

501
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: and if you make coffee at home versus going out, Like, yeah,

502
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: if you do that every day, it adds up. So

503
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear I want to hear your take,

504
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: like why did you have why'd you come up with

505
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: the name the price of avocado toast? And then what's

506
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: your take on those small purchases.

507
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, we ended up with the name price of Avocado

508
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 5: Toast for our own podcast because we did an Instagram

509
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 5: poll about the podcast and what we're going to talk

510
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 5: about and said what should we name it? And somebody

511
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 5: said cost of Avocado Toast. But we were both elementary

512
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 5: school teachers and didn't like the vowel sounds there like

513
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 5: cost of avocado, and so we went with price of

514
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 5: avocado toast. And you know, when we think about this

515
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 5: idea of like not getting the avocado toast or not

516
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 5: getting the latte, I think you hit it on the head.

517
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 5: There is some truth in that, and it's up to

518
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 5: all of us that kind of sort out what is

519
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 5: that truth for me in my life? And maybe it's

520
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 5: the avocado toast, but maybe it is the daily fantasy

521
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 5: sports gambling, or maybe it is the trips that I'm

522
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 5: struggling to say no to with a friend, or maybe

523
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 5: it's the thousand subscriptions that I have. Right, I think

524
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 5: that we get very singular in this idea of like

525
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 5: trimming things down, and not all of it needs to

526
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 5: be trimmed. Right. The seventeen dollars stream probably isn't moving

527
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 5: the needle that much for you. But when you have

528
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 5: seven of them and you get rid of four and

529
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 5: you throw that at your credit card instead.

530
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 3: How much faster is that credit card paid off?

531
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 5: And is the value there more important to you? And

532
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 5: if it is, well, then let's do that for a

533
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 5: season of life, right, we went down to I think

534
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 5: it was Sling TV and only Sling TV when we

535
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 5: were in the depths of our you know, kind of journey,

536
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 5: and that was what we had and it was like

537
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 5: really cheap that it was like maybe nine dollars at

538
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 5: the time for their like basic plan.

539
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: I don't even think we had a NetPlane.

540
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it.

541
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 5: Worked for us, right, And so I think that there

542
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 5: is this honesty behind Hey, where am I spending money

543
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 5: that doesn't align with the values that I have right

544
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 5: now in my life? And am I comfortable getting rid

545
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 5: of some of these things? We still want to have

546
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 5: joy and we still want to find ways to build

547
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 5: joy into your budget, which is key on the journey

548
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 5: so that you're not you know, burning out.

549
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: But it is.

550
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 5: Also confronting those harder conversations of is this something that

551
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: is serving me right now in this moment.

552
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: And is that as simple as like weighing the pros

553
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: and the cons. Hey, if I keep the streaming service

554
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: around me, is my credit card debt is going to

555
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: be around for another like a month and a half

556
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: or what is it? Kind of like are you getting

557
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: that granular with it or how are you helping people

558
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: think through those decisions, because especially for folks who are

559
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: like I feel like I've been on this debt treadmill

560
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: for a long time, interest rates like twenty two percent

561
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: now it's kind of crushing me. It's really burdened some

562
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: We all know that like debt can be mentally afflicting.

563
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: So how do you help people think about those trade

564
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: offs of like moving more more quickly towards debt payoff

565
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: versus yeah, a little more slowly and incorporating some more

566
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: of those things that you care about right now.

567
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 4: One of the things that we do with people pretty

568
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 4: early on that we do an activity that helps them

569
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 4: identify what their values are. And once the values are identified,

570
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 4: we can use the values and the goals together to

571
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 4: figure out where is our money going and.

572
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: Does it fill our cups.

573
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 4: For some people, the value might be security, and that

574
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 4: might mean financial security. I need to know that my

575
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 4: family's going to be okay. I need to know that

576
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: we're going to have a house over our head, the

577
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 4: bills are paid, the debt is paid off. That might

578
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 4: be a value of theirs. And the goal might simultaneously

579
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 4: be that they want to pay off their debt. So

580
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: for them, it's really easy to just like hustle, hustle, hustle,

581
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: where someone else their value might be travel and community

582
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 4: and being around the people that bring them joy. So

583
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: they might be unwilling to maybe sacrifice the family vacation,

584
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 4: so they're okay prolonging it. So it really does depend

585
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 4: on what the goals are and the values for each person.

586
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 4: So we can figure out something that's going to not

587
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 4: only make you happy, but be a sustainable way to

588
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 4: get to the end goal for you.

589
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: And you too, have helped clients pay off more than

590
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: four million dollars worth of debt, and I want to say, right,

591
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody has a different financial situation, but I'm curious,

592
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: what are maybe like the biggest things that your clients

593
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: tend to not understand or to not be doing. That

594
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: feels like the lowest hanging fruit. So someone's coming to

595
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: you for that initial consultation and you're like, well, have

596
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: you looked at this, this and this? And most people

597
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: just hasn't crossed their minds their mind to look at

598
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: those things. What are those things?

599
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 5: To be honest, jol, A lot of the folks we

600
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 5: work with are just like us back in the day, right,

601
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 5: they were not maybe budgeting or tracking their expenses. And

602
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 5: it is sometimes as simple as saying, hey, like, we're

603
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: going to sit down and we're going to create a

604
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 5: budget that feels really good for your life, and I'm

605
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: going to show you how to track your expenses, and

606
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: then I'm going to be an accountability coach. It's going

607
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 5: to stick you to it and make sure that you

608
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 5: are following through. And when you show somebody those numbers

609
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 5: and make it really clear for them and just say, hey,

610
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: I've run these numbers for you and here's exactly what

611
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 5: it can be if you want to come along for

612
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: this journey.

613
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: Are you up for it? And they say yes.

614
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 5: I mean it's almost immediate that folks have a return,

615
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 5: you know, the first two month working with us, they're like,

616
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 5: oh wow, I mean I've already paid off this much

617
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 5: debt or I've already crushed this much amount, or I've

618
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 5: already seen this light at the end of the tunnel.

619
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 5: Because it really is just kind of this awakening, this

620
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 5: educational piece that I think Hayley and I are really

621
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 5: good at as former teachers, of saying hey, here's the

622
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 5: scaffolding that you need, here's this beginning step, and if

623
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 5: you take this step, here's where the journey's gonna go.

624
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 5: And when we set it up for people like that

625
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 5: and they're able to see it, there's truly no stopping people.

626
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 5: So it's really as simple as like, let's get on

627
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 5: a budget, let's track our expenses, let's trim the dining out,

628
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 5: let's trim the extracurriculars that you're not paying attention to,

629
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 5: and I'm still gonna put all of this other fun

630
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 5: stuff in your budget and you're gonna crush debt. And

631
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 5: doesn't that feel really good?

632
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Is do you think part of the problem is that

633
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: people assume they're doing better than they are.

634
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: Yes, I think you're spot on.

635
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: When you look at the data about how much people

636
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: are spending on subscriptions, they just assume that they're spending

637
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: like one hundred bucks a month, but really the average

638
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: person is spending like three hundred bucks a month. So

639
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: they just assume certain things that just aren't true and

640
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: they haven't really reflected on that.

641
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: Yes, we see that.

642
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: Sorry, go ahead, well, I was actually going to say

643
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: that people have no idea how they should be budgeting,

644
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 4: like everything justin said, and if people get paid every

645
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: other week, they need to be budgeting on a week

646
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 4: like pay period budget because if you get paid September

647
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 4: twenty sixth, and then the next paycheck is October fifth,

648
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 4: that paycheck goes from September twenty six to October fourth.

649
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: It has part of September and part of October, probably

650
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 4: your mortgage or your rent as well. So there's this

651
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 4: concept of budgeting by month that every single budgeting app

652
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 4: only budgets by month. I have yet to see a

653
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: budgeting app that is a pay period budgeting app, and

654
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: everything you download online is just monthly budgeting templates. They

655
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 4: continue to input their numbers. They're like the mouth says

656
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 4: I should have extra money, but I don't. I'm constantly

657
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: out of money. I'm living paycheck to paycheck. Where's this going.

658
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: It's a cash flow problem with how the money is

659
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 4: coming in and the money is coming out. They really

660
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 4: need to get clear and make paycheck to paycheck, but

661
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 4: on an intentional way, really just taking a spin on

662
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 4: what does paycheck to paycheck look like and break it down,

663
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: and once people do that, they're like, WHOA, this is

664
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 4: way easier than I thought.

665
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: Do you think that's why people are turning to buy now,

666
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: pay later or the apps they allow you to get

667
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: paid early, and then it's only like making the situation

668
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: worse because it's like, oh, that's the only way I'd

669
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: be able to afford the thing I'm I'm trying to buy.

670
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: I thought I had the money. I don't. I guess

671
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: I'll just do that, Or thought the paycheck was coming

672
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: in like but or thought I had enough money, But

673
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: I guess I need my paycheck early. And then it

674
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: just becomes like this like really nasty cycle.

675
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: And the accessibility of it is so easy.

676
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 5: I mean you obviously back in the day, you know

677
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 5: if you're going to a pay day lender, you're walking

678
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 5: into a store. Nowadays, it's on your phone at two

679
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 5: in the morning when you're in the depths of some

680
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 5: type of emotional crisis. Yeah, you have access to it.

681
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 5: And that's what's really scary to me is it's so

682
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 5: easy to get access to it.

683
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: All.

684
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: That's what I want to talk about next, is like

685
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: the emotion and the like when you're talking to clients,

686
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: how much of an impact does their emotional state have?

687
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: How much are you addressing that? And in particular shame,

688
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: I think it can mess with a lot of people

689
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: for a long period of time and not allow them

690
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: really to make progress. They feel really, they fe really stuck,

691
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: and they feel a shamed that they don't know what

692
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: to do.

693
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: Joe.

694
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 5: One of the questions we ask people on our initial

695
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: application just to get on a free call with us

696
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 5: to talk about what we do and what their story

697
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: is and how we can maybe help or if they

698
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 5: need another resource, is we ask them what are your

699
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 5: reservations about one to one coaching? And you would think

700
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: that the number one question that people say is I

701
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 5: don't know how I'm going to pay for this or

702
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 5: I don't know how to afford it, right, which is

703
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 5: the elephant the room. Why would I pay somebody to put,

704
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 5: you know, work together to pay off my debt? That

705
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 5: is not the biggest thing that people say. The biggest

706
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 5: thing people say is I'm embarrassed about my debt and

707
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 5: I don't want to be shamed. And we have heard

708
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: that narrative so frequently. Just this past week, I'm in

709
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 5: a conversation with somebody talking about the shame they're feeling

710
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 5: around money and whether or not we should work together

711
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 5: because they're worried that we're going to shame them. And obviously,

712
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 5: you know, we just redirect them towards our content and say, hey, friend,

713
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 5: like that ain't us. You just go watch a million

714
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 5: videos or stories and you'll see that's not who we are.

715
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 5: But that really is the biggest issue for many people

716
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 5: is this shame and this guilt that they carry around debt.

717
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 5: And it's I think because many of our clients are

718
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 5: from the millennial generation where we were sold this bill

719
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: of goods of do X, Y and Z and life

720
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: will turn out okay, and maybe they're not seeing that

721
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 5: come to fruition and this is just an added step

722
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 5: on top of that of oh, I must have done

723
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 5: something wrong to not get to that point. And sure

724
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: we all have our own context to our story that

725
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 5: we need to honor and say what is my part

726
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 5: in this? But for many of them, the shame and

727
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 5: embarrassment of not hitting these mile markers in life is

728
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 5: really really heavy. So a lot of our initial work

729
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 5: with people doesn't even start to touch a budget. It

730
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 5: really looks at the emotional aspects and the things that

731
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 5: are weighing them down and trying to kind of relieve

732
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 5: that burden and set down that baggage so that we

733
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 5: can do the rest of the work.

734
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: Like part therapist, part money coach, kind of a combo

735
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 1: or Halich. Yeah, so, Haley, that's what you feel too

736
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: when you're talking to clients, like you're both of those

737
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: things at once.

738
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

739
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 4: We are actually now accredited financial counselors because I really

740
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: wanted to go forward with the designation of being a

741
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 4: financial counselor because that's what I felt like I was doing.

742
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: I felt like I was helping people with their finances

743
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 4: and I was their counselor. And so much of it

744
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 4: is your relationship with money and.

745
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: How you move through the world.

746
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 4: You need money, everybody needs it, and we can't get

747
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 4: rid of it, and we need to find a way

748
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 4: to create a healthy relationship with money and have it

749
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 4: feel good. And once people can do that, it's healing.

750
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 4: It is numbers, but so much deeper than numbers. Your

751
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 4: debt is so much deeper than the numbers of the

752
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 4: dollar signs and any of that. There's usually a lot

753
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: of stuff that led people there and really peeling the

754
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 4: onion and saying, well, what is it that got you here?

755
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 4: Was it a series of unfortunate events? Did you experience

756
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 4: a really tough year, did you have loss in your life,

757
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 4: job loss whatever that might be, or was it overspending

758
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: like what we did, or maybe a combination of both.

759
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 4: And once we can figure out what those things are,

760
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 4: it really helps people understand, Okay, this is why I'm

761
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 4: in this situation, and I'm not a bad person. I'm

762
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 4: not bad with money. Maybe I just didn't have the

763
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 4: right tools at the time. And now I'm here learning

764
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: and I have my coach by my side, and I'm

765
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 4: ready to learn how to do this the right way.

766
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 4: And I think one of the biggest things that I

767
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 4: noticed is people feel like I'm an adult. A lot

768
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 4: of our clients are like thirty five, forty five years old.

769
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: They feel like they are adults and they should be

770
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 4: making adult decisions, but they don't even know how. Yeah,

771
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 4: they feel stupid because they weren't taught this, and that's

772
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 4: exactly how we felt too, and that's where a lot

773
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 4: of the shame stems from, which is a shame.

774
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that personal finance education is becoming more accessible,

775
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: more mandatory, and in many states, curious to see how

776
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: that's going to shake out and how good the education

777
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: is going to be and how well equip the teachers

778
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: are going to be, but at least we're going to

779
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: learn be taught something like before we graduate, because there's

780
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that we get taught in high

781
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: school that at least I haven't used since then. And

782
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: I'm not throwing shade at high school. I'm just saying, like,

783
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: there are some classes that don't really we don't use

784
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: some of the skills that we learned far off into

785
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: the future. But personal miindance is one of those things

786
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: that we all use every single day, and if we

787
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: don't know the basics, then we are right to be

788
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: taken advantage of. And You're right, like those ties between

789
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: our money and our ability to live the life that

790
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: we want, they're tight, They're very intense. Money is often

791
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: the prevention of people being able to live that sort

792
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: of life that they want, and just having a better

793
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: education around money is going to make a big difference

794
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: for their ability to live that life that they want.

795
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, Haley. At one point, I think you

796
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: said the right way you put it in quotation marks,

797
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: like you want to tell people to do it the

798
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: right way when you put it in quotation marks. What

799
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: are you saying there is? Is is there a right

800
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: way to handle money or is it contextual? Is it individualized?

801
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: Like how do you think about that?

802
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: I think society thinks there's a right way to manage

803
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 4: your money. Society tells us that we need to do.

804
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: What we did.

805
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: We need to go to college, we need to have

806
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 4: money when you need to buy a house, you need

807
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: to do all of these things. But that flow isn't

808
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 4: necessarily reality for a lot of people. And I think

809
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 4: when I say the right way with managing money, people

810
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: want it to be that they have a lot of money,

811
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 4: they don't have debt, they're feeling good, and they have

812
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 4: you know, the white picket fence, and they're on their

813
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 4: merry way, just like their grandparents told them to do.

814
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 4: And it just is society from generations. It's a deep,

815
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 4: deep thing that we feel like we have to do

816
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 4: it the way. I don't know, it's a complex thing

817
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: to even try to explain because it really also is

818
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 4: very personal. What you think is the right way is

819
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 4: probably different from even your partner's way of thinking is

820
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 4: the right way. And I think it also changes over

821
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 4: time too.

822
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, our money and

823
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: discussions have changed significantly over time. Our goals have changed

824
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: significantly over time, and the hang ups that we had

825
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: with money, some of them still exists, but to a

826
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 1: lesser degree in many ways. But gosh, some of those

827
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: things still they still come up. Like literally this past weekend,

828
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: had a conversation with my wife where I'm like having

829
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: this like emotional reaction to something going out with money,

830
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: and it's it's really rooted in childhood stuff. And I

831
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: have to remember that in the time because it's Yeah,

832
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: for so many people. You never like people would be

833
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: amazed to hear that this guy who has had a

834
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: personal finance podcast for many, many years has been working

835
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: in the industry for like almost two decades, Like, how

836
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: is it that you still let emotion get the best

837
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: of you in that regard? And it just it does

838
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: like it because it is it's been there for so long,

839
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: and I think that's what a lot of people are

840
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: dealing with. I'm curious to Haley, you have a Trauma

841
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: of Money certification. What does that mean and how does

842
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: that help you? I guess in some of these conversations.

843
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 4: I went through the Trauma of Money program, and it

844
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: was initially for my knowledge of trauma for helping my

845
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: clients and to have a trauma informed lens. But it

846
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: was the most eye opening, healing thing I've ever done.

847
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 4: And it's also another hard thing to put into words

848
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 4: because I feel like it's been a year, but I'm

849
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 4: still processing everything from that.

850
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: But it really helps me.

851
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 4: Kind of slow down and ground myself in moments with

852
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 4: even Justin and I were we're having a financial maybe

853
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 4: just like a stress moment, to really sit down and say,

854
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 4: what is this, where is this coming from? Where do

855
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 4: I feel this in my body? How can I release this?

856
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 4: What is the true cause of this, and where did

857
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 4: that come from? And then practicing that on myself and

858
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 4: moving through my own financial trauma also helps me work

859
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 4: with my clients that way and just understanding that this

860
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 4: is more than money, and for a lot of people

861
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 4: it is deep from.

862
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: The way that they were raised.

863
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 4: And you can't just erase the first twenty years of

864
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 4: your life and be like, Okay, well, now I'm a

865
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 4: CPA and I am good to go because I went

866
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 4: to school and I have my bachelor's degree in economics

867
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 4: and accounting and I am educated. Well, if you grew

868
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 4: up in poverty and your family didn't have a lot

869
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: of money, there's a lot there that you need to

870
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 4: work through. Just having the textbook education doesn't heal that.

871
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 4: So that is kind of what all of that trauma

872
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 4: lens stuff works through.

873
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: Really, where does this come from?

874
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: Do you think these two think that getting better with

875
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: money and changing your relationship to money change your relationship

876
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: to each other? And how did that? What was the

877
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: internal work like for you guys? How different do you feel?

878
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: Not just because oh, we paid off debt and we've

879
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: got we're investing for the future and we're doing the

880
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: right thing. But how did that impact you guys? At

881
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: like more like a deeper level you want.

882
00:39:58,880 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: To go first?

883
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 5: Sure, I think it helped a lot of different things.

884
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 5: It gave us the tools to have really hard conversations

885
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 5: even outside of finances. We're really comfortable voicing our opinions

886
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 5: with one another in a kind way, but in also

887
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 5: a direct way. We don't dance around issues. I think

888
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 5: that it certainly helped our intimacy. Because we didn't have

889
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 5: this stress and tention around money.

890
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: We were able to you don't have to talk about

891
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey Apple anymore.

892
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 3: Right, exactly right? Were you know, more lighthearted?

893
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 5: I think that it gave us this freedom to be

894
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 5: spontaneous with boundaries. As wild as that sounds, but the

895
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 5: spontaneity I think that many couple's crave, they also desire

896
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 5: a boundary around it. And for us, tidying up our

897
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 5: money and our finances gives us those boundaries. So when

898
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 5: we do things, it feels really good and it doesn't

899
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 5: put us out, and it feels in alignment with our

900
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 5: goals and we're able to do it freely.

901
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 4: I definitely feel like everything that we have worked through

902
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: with having a lot of money, well, first off, how

903
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 4: we were raised. We didn't have any money growing up,

904
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 4: and then we got a lottery sized winnings and just

905
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 4: plopped into our lap and we had a really great

906
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 4: time and blew it all. And then also had a

907
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 4: bunch of debt that we racked up, and then we

908
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: paid off a bunch of debt.

909
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: It has taught us.

910
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 4: That we can do anything together as a unit. If

911
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 4: we go through hard times, there's nothing that we can't do.

912
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 4: And I feel truly unstoppable having done what we did.

913
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 4: The sacrifices and the challenge of paying off all of

914
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 4: that debt, it was truly something. This sounds very strange,

915
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 4: but I would do it all again in a heartbeat

916
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 4: because we learned so much from it, and that is

917
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 4: something that you can't learn reading a book. I can't

918
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 4: teach people that. It's the experience, and that really was

919
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 4: so unifying in the early years of our marriage. So

920
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 4: I'm very thankful for everything that we've been through with that.

921
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you too have lived a lot of life in

922
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: seven years of marriage. I've got a few more questions

923
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: I want to get to with you, and we're gonna

924
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: go back to some nitty gritty stuff on the debt front.

925
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts on debt consolidation. So well,

926
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: a few more questions with Haley and Justin. Right after this,

927
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: we're back still talking about avocado toast and you know,

928
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: how to be better with money as a couple. And man,

929
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: Haley and Justin, thank you for joining me. I love

930
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: your vibe. I love how you guys have been able

931
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: to communicate connect with each other on money, and then

932
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: how you've been able to influence the lives of so

933
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: many others through the coaching that you've done together. I

934
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: do want to ask some more questions about about debt.

935
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm curious when it comes to when you're talking to

936
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: your clients about debt payoff, debt consolidation is something that

937
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: comes up. We get a lot of questions about debt consolidation.

938
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, should I take out the helock money

939
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: to pay off the credit cards and or personal loan

940
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: instead of a credit card? Like maybe I can lower

941
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: my interest rate, and there's all these of like gamification

942
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: ways that people want to begin that process. What do

943
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: you tell people who ask you that question.

944
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: I love talking about this because it's something very relatable

945
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 4: that a lot of people really resonate with. And I'll

946
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 4: just say that the marketing from the debt consolidation companies,

947
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 4: they pour a lot of money into ads and they

948
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: really target people on purpose to get them at their

949
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 4: low point where they say, this is going to be

950
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 4: the saving grace, We're going to help you out. And

951
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 4: the answer. I wish it could be just a yes

952
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 4: or no, but it truly depends. Debt consolidation can be

953
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 4: the most amazing blessing for someone, but it ninety nine

954
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 4: percent of the time is a very slippery slope if

955
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 4: you are not working on anything else, if you're just

956
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 4: trying to gamify the system and consolidate your debt, but

957
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: you're not working on what got you into debt or

958
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: changing the behaviors, or you're not going to start budgeting

959
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 4: or actually tracking your expenses, then you will be stuck

960
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 4: in a debt cycle. I promised that a year from

961
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 4: after you take the heelock out and you pay off

962
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 4: all of your credit cards off, you will have probably

963
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: twice as much credit card debt as you already had

964
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 4: to begin with. And I've seen that scenario time and

965
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 4: time again, and that debt cycle is created intentionally by

966
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 4: these companies that want you to take out more personal

967
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 4: loans to consolidate your debt and to start it over

968
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 4: and over and over. So they're not bad if you're

969
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 4: working on the rest of the stuff, But really you

970
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 4: need to emphasize that hard, hard, hard with accountability.

971
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 2: And I think that that's one of our strengths.

972
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's the same with like a balance

973
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: transfer credit card right where Ye it seems so that's

974
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: the solution for me. All I got to do is

975
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: get over paying this twenty percent interest right to the

976
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: credit card companies, and then you do the balance transfer

977
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: and then you're like, well, I guess the other's stuff

978
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: I need to buy, and you're not really paying down

979
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: that credit card effectively. You're putting money you know you're

980
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: putting You're buying stuff on the original credit card that

981
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: where you did the transfer from, and then you end

982
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: up in a much worse position. I agree with you

983
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: guys on that. What's your take on credit card it's

984
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: in general because credit cards, it seems like they can

985
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: be a tool to use effectively, but something like fifty

986
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: percent of Americans just can't use them. Well, so does

987
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: that lead you guys to tell clients like probably should

988
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: avoid them or not.

989
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 4: I think if you're trying to pay off debt, you

990
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 4: should stop using your credit cards entirely. And that's the

991
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 4: hill I will die on, because you need to tell

992
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 4: yourself by your actual actions that you are in control.

993
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 4: When you're in credit card debt, you feel out of control,

994
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 4: and you need to really feed yourself the confidence that

995
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 4: I am in control of this situation. I'm going to

996
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 4: pay this off and I'm going to do this, and

997
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: you practice that by stop using the card. But credit

998
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 4: cards in general, if you're managing your money effectively, they

999
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 4: can be super great strategic tools for free travel and

1000
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: all of that, but all of those benefits are completely

1001
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 4: useless the moment you pay interest. So the game, it's

1002
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 4: a whole game people think they're playing, and the banks

1003
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 4: are the puppets that are like, haa, we're gonna get everyone.

1004
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: And once you realize that that's what the bank are doing,

1005
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 4: it's a little easier to say, Wait, I'm not going

1006
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 4: to pay all the extra interest to City Bank, Chase

1007
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 4: or whoever.

1008
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to back off.

1009
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: And then once I stop using them for six months

1010
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 4: or a year and I pay off all of my

1011
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 4: credit card debt, maybe I'll start using them a little

1012
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 4: bit and pay them off in full.

1013
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 5: But it really takes time, Yeah, because I think it's

1014
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 5: almost ninety nine percent behavioral Right, there are moments where

1015
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 5: debt happens to us and we don't have an emergency

1016
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 5: fund and we've got to use the credit card for something.

1017
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 5: But once we are working with a client and we

1018
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 5: can show them, hey, here's maybe what an emergency fund's

1019
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 5: going to look like as we get started, or here's

1020
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 5: how we're going to keep this credit card safe. We're

1021
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 5: not gonna just shred it and get rid of it,

1022
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 5: but we're not gonna use it anymore, we're gonna take

1023
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: it off your Apple Bay or link to your phone

1024
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 5: or whatever. I think it's the only way to move forward.

1025
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 5: You know, there's so many conversations I've had with a

1026
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 5: client where I say, hey, you made a twelve hundred

1027
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 5: dollars payment this month on your credit card. That's tremendous.

1028
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 5: I want you to scroll down in your transaction log

1029
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 5: and see the eight hundred and seventy dollars interest payment

1030
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 5: that you also got charged on that card. So while

1031
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 5: while you're saying you paid twelve hundred dollars, I'm so

1032
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 5: proud of you, look at what an interest took from that.

1033
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 5: That's how bad it was beating you up. You got

1034
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 5: to stop using this car. You need to put it

1035
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 5: away and it can't continue to climb. And I agree

1036
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 5: with Haley. You know, once you're out of that pattern

1037
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 5: and you're able to tidy up that credit card debt

1038
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 5: if you want to use it and you've got a

1039
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 5: good structure for gaining the points or rewards or whatnot,

1040
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 5: I think that's great. But I also think people need

1041
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 5: to be honest with themselves because many people go through

1042
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 5: the debt payoff cycle. Don't fix the habits, but they

1043
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 5: end up paying off debt somehow still, and then they

1044
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 5: start picking up the credit card again and they're right

1045
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 5: back into debt.

1046
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with like drinking alcohol. Right some

1047
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: people it's like I can stop at one beer, and

1048
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: other people are like.

1049
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 3: I just can't.

1050
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: Or potato chips or whatever. It is like that you

1051
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: find yourself super thrilled by ingesting, like you can overdo

1052
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: it really quickly, and some people have that ability to

1053
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: say no, I'm done, you know, in my moderation, I

1054
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: can handle it. Moderation. If somebody is listening, whether it's

1055
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: them or a friend, and they find themselves in like

1056
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: significant amounts of debt or they just feel like their

1057
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: wheels are spinning and they don't know how to move forward,

1058
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: what would you tell them to do? And I guess

1059
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: how important or how crucial do you think one on

1060
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: one coaching is, because it seems like that sort of

1061
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 1: relationship allows a lot of people to jumpstart and start

1062
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: making progress that have otherwise, whether it's books or other

1063
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: ways of gleaning information about personal finance, they've been unable

1064
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: to really that hasn't worked well.

1065
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 4: There's a psychological thing that happens when you pay money

1066
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 4: for something, people care about where their money goes. And

1067
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 4: when you say that you want to make the change,

1068
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 4: and you invest in that change, whatever that is. And

1069
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 4: this could also be like paying a personal trainer to

1070
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 4: get fit. You're more likely to show up for yourself

1071
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 4: and you're more likely to show up for the other

1072
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: person as well. And frequently in the beginning, people say, Haley,

1073
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 4: I only did my homework because.

1074
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 2: I have this scheduled. I say, but you did it.

1075
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 2: You showed up and you did it, and we're going

1076
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: to move forward.

1077
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 4: And I would say to someone who's stuck in a

1078
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 4: bunch of debt or they're looking to find the next

1079
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 4: how do I get out of this? The first thing

1080
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: you need to do is just kind of try to

1081
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 4: breathe and forgive yourself for some of the stuff that

1082
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: you've done because or the situation you're in, because a

1083
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 4: lot of the shame is just so debilitating. And that's

1084
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 4: a lot of what we do. But you can also

1085
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 4: work on that without a coach. Now, coaching is I

1086
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 4: think what we do is amazing and we love helping people,

1087
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 4: but it's for specific people.

1088
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 5: What do you say I would agree with all that,

1089
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 5: I would just say logistically, people need to write down

1090
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 5: their numbers. Clearly, people will say like I think I

1091
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 5: have about ten thousand dollars a credit card debt, and

1092
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 5: then they go and they go, oh my gosh, like

1093
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 5: I saw what everything is and it's actually yeah, thirty

1094
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 5: five thousand or even you know, yeah, or I had,

1095
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 5: you know, down to this exact number and I'm actually

1096
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 5: over on that credit card.

1097
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 3: I didn't even.

1098
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 5: Realize that I was past the limit somehow. And it's

1099
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 5: because we want to do the Ostrich thing. The osage

1100
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 5: thing isn't going to work, whether you're working with a

1101
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 5: coach or trying to diy this by yourself. The Ostrich

1102
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 5: bury your head in the sand will never get you

1103
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 5: where you want to be. You got to come up

1104
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 5: for air, and you got to write down the numbers

1105
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 5: and get a little bit vulnerable with yourself.

1106
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: Beautiful wy to end it, Hailey, justin thank you so

1107
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: much for joining me. Where where can how do money

1108
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: listeners go find out more about you guys? And also like, yeah,

1109
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 1: you're coaching and see the price of avocado toasts everything

1110
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: in that underbelly.

1111
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can go to our website.

1112
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 5: Price of avocadotost dot com across all social media's we're

1113
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 5: just at price of avocado toasts. If you search that

1114
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 5: we should hopefully show up, you can see kind of

1115
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 5: who we are in our day to day and what

1116
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 5: we do is coaches and how we show up for folks,

1117
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 5: and in all of our social media and on our

1118
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 5: website are one to one coaching application is linked. If

1119
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 5: somebody wants to fill it out, we meet for a

1120
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 5: free call just to hear more about their story and

1121
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 5: whether or not we're the right fit for them, and

1122
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 5: if not, we'll show them maybe the right resource or

1123
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 5: who is So yeah.

1124
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: Awesome, thanks for joining me. I appreciate it.

1125
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 3: Awesome, thanks to appreciate you.

1126
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1127
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay. I'm just a big fan of both Haley and

1128
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: Justin and with their powers combined, they become like Captain

1129
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: Planet and the work they're doing in this base with

1130
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: individuals and then just like you know, reaching people in

1131
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 1: a larger way through through their own podcast and social media.

1132
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: It's it's a beautiful thing to behold and they really

1133
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: are changing lives. When you think about two people helping

1134
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of people pay off four million dollars worth

1135
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: of debt. That's incredible, that's laudable. It's worth highlighting. And

1136
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: I think there's like a million things I could highlight

1137
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: as big takeaways from this conversation. I love kind of

1138
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: towards the end when Haley said to invest in the

1139
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: change you want to see in your own life and

1140
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: how that can look like paying a financial counselor like

1141
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: them right to be that accountability partner for you, and

1142
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: if you've got some money, some skin in the game

1143
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: towards that goal that you want, if that really is

1144
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: your goal, Like, hey, we get a gym membership if

1145
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: we want to get ripped right, Well, if you want

1146
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: to get your money together, maybe it makes sense to

1147
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: like buy a book or to pony up for a

1148
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: counselor relationship. But whatever that is for you, invest in

1149
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: the change that you're trying to see and then realize.

1150
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: I think too. I love what they were talking about

1151
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: how as you make progress with your money, especially if

1152
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship, I think, just the relationship to yourself.

1153
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: Because money impacts so many areas of our lives, your

1154
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: relationship to yourself can change significantly in the process of

1155
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: getting good with your finances. So it's not really just

1156
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: about building your net worth and increasing your wealth and

1157
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: decreasing your debt. Those are great things, those are worthy goals,

1158
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: and just realize that there's going to be some really

1159
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: cool byproducts involved at the same time as you're making

1160
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: progress with your money, because you're going to learn more

1161
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: about yourself and what makes you tick, and you're going

1162
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: to gain knowledge, but you're also going to gain perspective.

1163
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: And so yeah, Justin and Haley talked about the fact

1164
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 1: that they have better combos in every area of life now,

1165
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: and I think that's true. I think like as my

1166
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: wife and I made progress with our money, the way

1167
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: it impacted our relationship. Not to say it was easy,

1168
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't always easy. Some of those conversations are hard.

1169
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes money conversations are still hard because they bring up

1170
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: those ancillary parts, those other parts of you that make

1171
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: you a whole human being, and you have to drag

1172
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: those into the conversation about money too, And so it's

1173
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: not always easy, but it's always worthwhile because we're growing

1174
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: together in deeper ways. And so they think the more

1175
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: you take money off the table as a topic that

1176
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: you're interested in pursuing yourself to make progress the more

1177
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: you take it off the table of your relationships, whether

1178
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: it's a spouse or whether it's friends. The more we

1179
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 1: don't talk about money, the more we're doing a disservice

1180
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: to ourselves, because I do think that it can allow

1181
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: us to grow and thrive in some beautiful ways. And also,

1182
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: like we'll just spread the money knowledge right so that

1183
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: we can understand some best practices with money and how

1184
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: those relate to our ability to live the life that

1185
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: we want and to thrive, because really that's what it's about.

1186
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: None of us are aiming for those or know how

1187
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: to money listeners that I have met, or aiming for

1188
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: those Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett levels of wealth.

1189
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: They really just want to feel confident in their finances.

1190
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 1: They want to be doing have more optionality in the future,

1191
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: they want to be working towards brighter, bigger goals for

1192
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: their family. That's what I want, That's what I want,

1193
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: and that's what I want for you. So I hope

1194
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 1: this episode was inspiring. Thank you as always for listening.

1195
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: Show notes will be up on the website at howtomoney

1196
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: dot com. Until next time, Best Friend Out