1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: She's making up stories like one after another. Her superiors, 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: men many years older, number of them are hiding behind 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: executive privilege, anonymity, and intimidation. Floomberg Sound on Politics, Policy 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: and perspective from DC's top names. He's releasing oil from 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: the strategic Petroleum Reserve at the cliff the president has 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: ever used. The revelations from this committee make his path 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: to even the Republican nomination much more tenuous. Floomberg Sound 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Fallout from the 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: January sixth Committee, the pushback from Democrats in Congress, on 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruling on Roe v. Wade, all the 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: action on gas prices. It is not a slow Friday. 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: We've got a lot of news for you. I'm Jack 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick filling in for Joe Matthew. Today. We're gonna talk 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: short with Congresswoman Lois Frankel, Democrat from Florida. She is 16 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: one of the co chairs of the Democratic Women's Caucus 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: and on the Key House Appropriations Committee that is responsible 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: for funding the government. We're going to talk about what 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: comes next after that, Supreme Court ruling. Mick Mulvaney is 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: also going to call in the former White House Acting 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: Chief of Staff who resigned on January one over what 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: happened at the Capitol. Will get some of his takeaways 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: on the January six committee. And of course, we've got 24 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano and Rick Davis 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: joining us to make sense of this action packed newsweek. 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Here on the fastest hour in politics and policy, go 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg's Pretty Gupta, who is live from New York 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: City's LaGuardia Airport to tell us about the summer air 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: travel disruptions. Pretty uh for people like me who are 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: about to go on vacation immediately after this show is over. 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: How's it looking at LaGuardia? You know, Jack, It's been 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: quite the day. And I started out to day about 33 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: eight am this morning, and so I seemed completely calm, 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: no chaos at all. Lot of people we had spoken 35 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: to and said, well, you know, all the travel, all 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: the chaos. It was earlier in the week. People were 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: anticipating these lags, these delays, these cancelations. Of course, the 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: labor shortages and the fly attendant crew shortages. That of 39 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: course are causing some of these. But I think the 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: takeaway here is that by the end of the day, 41 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: about eight hours later, you are now starting to see 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: major delays, major cancelations, a lot of people actually not 43 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: even able to get ahold of customer service for as 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: much as two to four hours, being sent out of 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: security for the next flight that really only comes a 46 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: day later. So I would say, what's supposed to be 47 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: a pretty busy holiday weekend, A lot of people have 48 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: already gotten ahead of it, but it looks like there 49 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: are still going to be some snags in this weekends 50 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: travel story. All right, I will prepare myself for the worst. 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: Thank you, pretty Gupta. Uh. We now have Congresswoman Lois 52 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: Frankel joining US Congressman. Very very happy to have you on, 53 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, because you are a co chair of 54 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: the Democratic Women's Caucus, but also I have been watching 55 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: all of the appropriations markups this week. You have been 56 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: one of the most vocal members on the Democratic side 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: on what comes next after this Supreme Court ruling. I 58 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: want to play a little sound first from Dick Durbin 59 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: in the Senate to set the stage here on what 60 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: he had to say about what the options are. Here's 61 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: what Dick Durbin had to say. When we're all present voting. UH, 62 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris can ride to our rescue if necessary. But 63 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: the notion of changing the rules is it really at 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: the mercy of one or two senators who can make 65 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: that decision for us. So, Congresswoman, with the Senate in 66 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: the in mind, what are the realistic options that you 67 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: want to see Congress take in terms of abortion access 68 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: following the Supreme Court ruling? Well, first, thanks to do 69 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: with you. Well, let me remind everybody that the House 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: did pass a Women's Health Protection Act, which UH actually 71 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: banns or prohibits states from from banning abortions or putting 72 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: unreasonable medical restrictions. That's over in the Senate, and as 73 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned, it's gonna take UH sixty votes unless they 74 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: go back, they change the rule and go back to 75 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: a majority vote. So UH, you know it's not likely 76 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: they're going to do it, but I still think there 77 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: should be pressure beared upon some of the approach. You know, 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: the people who believe in reproductive freedom, those senators to 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: to UH to change your rule. List And if there's 80 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: been ever been a time in our history of this 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: Congress that we should not monkey around, uh you know, 82 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: and and say hey, we can't go the fifty a 83 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: majority vote. This is it because this Supreme Court decision 84 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: has unbelievable implications. It is uh, it's really almost mind boggling. 85 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: So but in the meantime, uh, you're gonna we have 86 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: to take actions that are going to mitigate the harm. 87 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court has now taken away people's power to 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: make their own personal decisions about their reproductive health, their life, 89 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: and their future, giving it to the state politicians. What 90 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: does that mean? That means very uh quickly, they're gonna 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: be twenty six states, twenty seven states they gonna ban abortion. 92 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: There maybe many more that are going to put a 93 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: severe restrictions that make it almost impossible. What does that mean, 94 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: especially to low income women, the colored people who have 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: a hard time getting health care in the first place, 96 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: they are going to be either have a forced pregnancy 97 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: or use their every last penny, maybe maybe their their 98 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: week's pay to even find a place where they can 99 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: get an abortion. So we've got to do that. We 100 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: got to fight this ruling, uh, you know, with full force, 101 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: and that's going to probably be at the ballot box. 102 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, we've got to try to mitigate 103 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: the harm, and that's making sure that there is funding 104 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: for a contraception and family planning that we uh if 105 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: it's possible. Again with this with the Senate, it's not 106 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: too many things are possible, but vouchers for people to travel. 107 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: We've got to make sure uh that any a medical 108 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: a way that someone can have an abortion, that that 109 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: is allowed, uh through what would be the an abortion pill? 110 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: Uh so uh and I'm not sure whether this was mentioned, 111 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: but the President has directed the Secretary of Health and 112 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: Human Reservices to protect uh contraception and medication that that 113 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: will you know, result in an abortion. So it's in 114 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: the FDA approved Miss priss Stone. I'm not if I'm 115 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: saying you're right, but it's Ms. Priss Stone too safely 116 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: in the early privacy you're gonna start to see states 117 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: trying to ban that. Because I have some appiliate you 118 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: can get into them in the mail. So, Congresswoman, a 119 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: couple of those issues that you just mentioned came up 120 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: in the Appropriations Committee. The idea of funding, whether it's 121 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: the High Amendment measures on funding for the Justice Department 122 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: for abortions, if a woman is in federal custody, a 123 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: variety of abortion access via government funding measures. And it 124 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: does seem that you Democrats are quite determined to roll 125 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: back the High Amendment and some of those longstanding restrictions. 126 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: But it seems that the key question is how dug 127 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: in are you on that those bills need sixty votes 128 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: in the Senate. Are you going to shut the government 129 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: down over abortion access via government funding bills? I would 130 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: say not because I think we would do more harm 131 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: than good by doing uh. And you know, really, the 132 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: Republicans don't even care. I don't think they care that 133 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: much about passing new budgets. Uh. So you know the 134 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: reason you need a new budget every year is because 135 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: because things change and you have to stay up with 136 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: the times. We have been fighting on this, uh. And 137 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: this just so people know what what what the Hide 138 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: and the Helm's amendments do is basically Hide does does 139 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: not allow public funding, which would be in this instance, 140 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: Medicaid to fund abortion. Who does that hurt? It hurts 141 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: the you know, the poorest, the working poor of this 142 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: country who depends on Medicaid uh for their health care? Uh. 143 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: You know what who is this going to affect the 144 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl who's raked by her father and 145 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: now and can't afford abortion, or or a struggling mother 146 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: who may already have three or four children, or someone 147 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: who's or or young person and with hopes and dreams, 148 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: who who has a whole future ahead of themselves and 149 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: really this is not the time to bring a child 150 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: into the world. So there's a lot of uh implications 151 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: that could really go on and on with the anecdotes. 152 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: But I think what's important here is that, uh, when 153 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: when this is this the unjustice that has been inflicted 154 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court? Uh and having what's called this 155 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: high Amendment which does not allow the use of Medicaid dollars, 156 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: of funding dollars for poor women to get abortion. I mean, 157 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: who does it? Who is it mostly aimed at? And 158 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: who gets hurt the worst? Or people who who really 159 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: can't have the hardest time sending for themselves. So Congresswoman, 160 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: what about the administration if we're talking about realistic options 161 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: to try to counter the effects of this the Democrats want. 162 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: I noticed the governors of New York and New Mexico 163 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: were pushing President and Biden on the idea of using 164 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: federal lands to avoid state bands on abortion. Is the 165 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: administration leaving any realistic options on the table at this point. Well, 166 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: we've had I know, I've been in a number of 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: conversations with the President's gender counsel and those of folks 168 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: who have really been looking at this issue for you know, 169 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: since the President took office, and you know, look, it's 170 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: a nice idea. Yeah, I could have you know, have 171 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: have a user federal law land from abortion clinic. But 172 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is it's not going to 173 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: make up for all the clinics closing or in the 174 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: in the twenty seven states that that are going to 175 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: ban abortion. So, uh, you know, it's a nice idea, 176 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: it's not really a substitute. I think the best thing 177 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: really that the President is doing right now is on 178 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: the the uh the medical drug and making sure that 179 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: it can be sent you know, mailed out, and also 180 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: uh the Justice Apartment to protect the people who cross 181 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: state lines, because you're gonna see that they're going to 182 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: be instances where people will you travel to other states, 183 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: and that's going to be an attempt I'm sure by 184 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: some of the states had abandoning abortion to to try 185 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 1: to prosecute those people. Right, Congresswoman, thank you so much 186 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: for joining us. That's Congresswoman Lois Frankel, Democrat from Florida, UH, 187 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: co chair of the Democratic Women's Caucus and a member 188 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: of the House Appropriations Committee where they debated, uh those issues. 189 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna have Mick mulveney on the phone in a 190 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: little bit, the former White House Acting Chief of Staff, 191 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: to discuss January six takeaways. Will also get to our 192 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano and Rick Davis 193 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: to discuss the takeaways from this week and what's ahead 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: from that committee and others that's coming up in just 195 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: a minute. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, 196 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: sooned on with Joe Maphew on Bloomberg Radio. Jack Fitzpatrick 197 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: here in for Joe, who's gonna be back next week. 198 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: You just heard from Congresswoman Lois Frankel on the options 199 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: or maybe lack of options for Democrats to fight back 200 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court ruling striking down the Roe v. 201 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: Wade precedent. Let's bring in the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors 202 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: Jeannie she and Zano and Rick Davis. Guys, it almost 203 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: sounded like the congresswoman, uh maybe speaking on behalf of 204 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: some House Democrats there. It was a little defeated. It 205 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: stood out to me, you know, they've gone through this 206 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: whole series of fights over government funding availability for abortion access, 207 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: whether for those on Medicaid or or elsewhere. But as 208 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: she said, a shutdown over this really did get their 209 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: heels in on these government funding bills. To fight this 210 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: battle would do more harm than good. Genie, what do 211 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: you make of that? You know, it sounds like the 212 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: some of the most enthusiastic Democrats are still uh settled 213 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: into the reality that they don't have that many options. Yeah, 214 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: I mean, and I felt listening to her that she 215 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: really echoed some of the frustration you hear from some 216 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: of the base and people on the ground. You know, 217 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: if you know, for for people like the congresswoman and 218 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: other members of the House who passed, for instance, the 219 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: Health Protection Act, and who you know, these voters that 220 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: you talk about, who say, listen, I voted Democratic. I 221 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: did what you told me and asked me to do, 222 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: and yet here we are. I think there is a 223 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: real sense of frustration. But that said, you also look 224 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: at the flip side of this, which is that you've 225 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: got a lot of Democrats increasing numbers just in the 226 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: last week since this came out, who are banking that 227 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: it is going to help them get voters out to 228 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: the polls, as the number of ads and the amount 229 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: of spending on ads talking about this issue from Democrats 230 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 1: has increased exponentially. So I think there is frustration from 231 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: the legislative end in the House and the Senate and 232 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: the federal level. But I also think there is a sense, 233 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: at least among some people running that this has increased 234 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: enthusiasm among the base and may help them in November. Well, 235 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: I think clearly you're right about that, Genie. But on 236 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: the other hand, they're not gonna what win a supermajority 237 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: in the Senate. They're not going to have sixty votes. 238 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: Uh And that's something the congresswoman touched on, saying that 239 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: they should not apply the Senate's sixty vote threshold to 240 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: this kind of issue. Uh Rick. How much of a 241 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: difference does it make, especially when the President says there 242 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: should be a filibuster carve out in the Senate. Is 243 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: it is there any reason to believe something like that 244 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: would actually happen. No, I mean, there have been ample 245 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: opportunities with some of the hallmark legislation that the Biden 246 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: administration has been promoting for the last two years to 247 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: do this, and maybe it does it rise to the 248 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: level of uh, you know, importance that the defeat of 249 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: Rob v. Wade and the Supreme Court does. But it 250 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: was pretty important to Biden and they couldn't budge to 251 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: to accomplish that. So there's absolutely no reason to believe 252 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: that this isn't anything other than just sort of political posturing. 253 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: But I must say I was I was taken by 254 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: Representative Frankel's kind of you know, depressed attitude toward this, 255 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and if she is reflective at all of 256 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: the Democratic base, I would worry that it might be 257 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: backfiring and not exciting them to do something. But the 258 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: realization that they're just simply isn't that much they can 259 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: do may hurt them in the November elections. Well, and 260 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: you can tell the options are limited when you hear 261 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: about these legally creative ideas. And I as I mentioned 262 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: in the interview with the congresswoman Uh, the governors of 263 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: New York and New Mexico brought up the idea directly 264 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: today with the President of using federal lands abortion clinics 265 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: on ural lands or properties could be military properties to 266 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: try to get around state bands. Uh, Genie, what do 267 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: you make of the administration stance on it? They haven't 268 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: taken that up. Is that a realistic option in any way? 269 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it is. And I think we heard 270 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: that from the congresswoman, And I too was surprised by 271 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: the fact that she so quickly seemed to say, you know, 272 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: that's not a realistic option in terms of having any 273 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: real impact on the ground and in terms of addressing 274 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: the issue. And I think one of the things that 275 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Democrats have said since this happened is, number one, it 276 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: felt like the Democrats from the top had been caught 277 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: off guard when they shouldn't have been, because we knew 278 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: this was coming. And number two, there's been something of 279 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: a disjointed response on the part of Democrats to this. 280 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: I think the president meeting with the governors today was 281 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: an attempt by the administration to try to corral the 282 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: upper echelon of the party together and try to come 283 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: to a, you know, some kind of consensus on how 284 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: they can move forward. But I think it is problematic 285 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: that they haven't gotten that, and that is you know 286 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: what I think. You know, I agree with Rick that 287 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: there is a sense that this can increase enthusiasm, but 288 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: there's also the flip side of that, which is a 289 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: real frustration which keeps people home saying a sense of inefficacy. 290 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: You know, why should I go out and participate because 291 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: it's not gonna yield much. So Democrats have to be 292 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: very careful about that possibility. Well. One other little bit 293 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: of news out of the White House as we change 294 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: gears that I wanted to touch on was the list 295 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: of Presidential Medal of Freedom winners. Uh, some posthumous John McCain, 296 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, as well as some other big names Simone Biles, 297 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: Gabby Gifford's, Denzel Washington, Megan Rapino. Uh, Rick, I I 298 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: wonder about the timing of these sometimes when it comes 299 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: out from the White House real quick, what what what 300 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: does it mean for someone like you who worked with 301 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: John McCain or maybe even to his family, uh, to 302 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: see this honor for McCain. Look, I'm I'm first of 303 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: all thank the Biden administration for doing something that a 304 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: president of John's own party wasn't willing to do. I mean, uh, 305 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, Trump had many opportunities to do it and 306 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: and and didn't, So thank you. I mean, I think 307 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: this is great. The list is very distinguished. I'm thrilled 308 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 1: by it, and I think it reminds American people of 309 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: the service and sacrifice that so many people have given 310 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: to this country. And it can come at a better 311 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: time when there's a lot of self doubt about the 312 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: future of our country's democracy. Right, Rick and Jeanie will 313 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: be back with us a little bit. We're also going 314 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: to hear from Mick Mulvaney, the former White House Acting 315 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: Chief of Staff, on takeaways from the January sixth Congressional 316 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: Committees investigation that's coming up. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is 317 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, 318 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one 319 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the Country, Serious 320 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: x M General one ninety and around the globe of 321 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is 322 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sund On with Joe matthew By. Now you have 323 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: probably heard the tale of the former President Donald Trump 324 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: trying to commandeer the beast and drive up to the 325 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: capital on January one, even uh, you may say, assaulting 326 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: or accosting physically a Secret Service agent. We're going to 327 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: speak with Mick Mulvaney, former White House Acting chief of Staff, 328 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: who at the time was in the Trump administration as 329 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: the envoy to Northern Ireland. He ended up resigning from 330 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: the administration over what happened on January six We've got 331 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: to get into the revelations that have been coming out 332 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: from the January sixth Committee in Congress investigating the insurrection 333 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: at the capital, their arguments that the president, former President 334 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trump did not have any legal merit to his 335 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: claims of voter fraud. But also this week the story 336 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: relayed by then White House aid Cassidy Hutchinson that Trump 337 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: physically tried to get himself driven to the capital while 338 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: all of this was happening. We're gonna talk to Mick Mulvaney, 339 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: the former White House Acting chief of Staff. First, here 340 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: is what former President Trump had to say about that 341 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: story relayed by Cassidy Hutchinson. Trump spoke in an interview 342 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: with news Max yesterday. She's making up stories like one 343 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: after another. But the craziest of all was that I 344 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: tried to commandeer. I think they used that word. I 345 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: tried to commandeer a car with Secret Service agents telling 346 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: them to take to take us down to the Capitol. 347 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: It was totally false. Mr mulvaney. Thank you so much 348 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: for joining us. It seems someone is lying. Uh And 349 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: I want to know, especially from a former acting chief 350 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: of staff in the White House. I believe you knew 351 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: Cassidy Hutchinson. How credible is she? Can you tell us 352 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: about the person who is the source of this information? Sure, Jack, 353 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: and thanks for having me. She's she's very incredible. I 354 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: think that a lot of attention was paid to that 355 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: particular part of her testimony because it was so sensational. 356 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: The visual image of the President leaning up from the 357 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: back of the suv, grabbing that steering will and then 358 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, choking his secret Service agent. It's very dramatic, 359 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: very sensational stuff. Um. She was very clear. I thought 360 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: in her testimony that she didn't see that that she 361 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: was told that story by Tony Ornado. Um, and that 362 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: Tony will now as I think, is now saying he's 363 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: going to testify otherwise. I think it's one of those 364 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: situations where the folks have sort of missed what the 365 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: important stuff is. It's really listen at the crime to 366 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: assault a secret Service agent. It is right. But her 367 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: other testimony was much more, much more interesting, much more substantial. 368 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: That the president knew there were guns at the at 369 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: the at the January six rally, and that he had 370 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: said that let these folks in with guns and they 371 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: can go to the castle from here. That is a 372 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: that's a that's a major major development. Is also testimony 373 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: that he has he gave Um that she knew that 374 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows was communicating with some of the right wing 375 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: extremist groups in the advance of January six. Those things 376 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: touch on potential serious crimes. Um. And while like you 377 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: said that the grabbing the steering wheel is sort of 378 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: a visual image that a lot of folks have locked 379 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: in on, uh, to me, it's probably the fourth and 380 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: fifth most important piece of that testimony. So I understand, 381 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: and I may even agree that that was not the 382 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: most important thing to come out of the Juniory six 383 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: I've got to ask, though, if there does end up 384 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: being testimony from anyone from the Secret Service saying that 385 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: did not happen. I've got to ask you, do you 386 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: know the Secret Service to be willing to lie on 387 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: behalf of a former president or would you take that 388 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: to be the absolute truth? Absolutely not. I don't think 389 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: the Secret Service would lie for anybody. But I think 390 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: it raises the issue Jack, And this is where I 391 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: think the hearing is going, or at least the discussion 392 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: is going to turn. It's a question I ask, and 393 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: again I have been. I've defended the president for the 394 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: last year over his actions on that day. I quit 395 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: because I thought he failed as as my president, but 396 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: I never thought he committed a crime, and I didn't 397 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: think he committed any impeachable offenses. So I've actually been 398 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: defending him in a roundabout way. But my question would 399 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: be this, Okay, if she said four or five things, um, 400 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: and the Secret Service agent is willing to come forward 401 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: and say, well, that one particular matter about this the 402 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: SUV that's false, and I will testify under oath that 403 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: is false. Where are the other people who are willing 404 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: to come forward and testify on her oath that the 405 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: other things about the guns and the right wing extremist 406 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: groups are not are also false. That's that's I think 407 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: a reasonable next question. Um, and I've not heard anybody 408 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: pushed back yet on those of the veracity of that 409 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: particular part of her testimony. Right, and based on that 410 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: part of the testimony and that focus that has the 411 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: committee has had, do you still think that former President 412 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: Trump did nothing impeachable or nothing illegal or have you 413 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: changed your mind at all about that? I am. I 414 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: am count me now amongst the undecided. I believe Cassidy 415 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: Cassidy she worked for me. I didn't know her very well. 416 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: I don't pretend to know where. She was a junior person. 417 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: She was in the Office of Legislative Affairs. Part of 418 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: her job it was to escort members of Congress when 419 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: they came to visit. That's how she met Mark Meadows, 420 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: and then she became one of his deputy chiefs of staff. 421 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: Those are those those are very close relationships. I had 422 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: three people who filled those positions, and they you know, 423 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: I saw them all day, every single day. You probably 424 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: closer to me during my time in the White House 425 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 1: and my own family because you in the office sixteen 426 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: hours a day. So for her to come forward and testify, um, 427 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: and things that that that stand against the president and 428 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: against Mark Meadows. UM. That is that's a particularly eye 429 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: opening sort of development. I wasn't expecting this in the 430 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: hearing Tuesday. I had seen some of her previous testimony 431 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: about to hang my tent stuff, but was not expecting 432 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: this to have such gravity as it did. And I 433 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: guess is it opens up tens of additional hearings, or 434 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: at least tens of additional witnesses. Um. I thought this 435 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: thing might be ending soon. It looks like it's not 436 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: going to well. Speaking of Cassidy Hutchinson's place in the 437 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: White House and her decision to come forward, I do 438 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: want to play a little bit of sound from uh 439 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: the hearing the other day from Congresswoman Liz Cheney on 440 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: I guess the state of play among White House personnel. 441 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: Here's what Congresswoman Cheney had to say, her superiors, men 442 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: many years older, A number of them are hiding behind 443 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:43,239 Speaker 1: executive privilege, anonymity, and intimidation. So Mr Mulviney, that that 444 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: kind of line makes me want to ask you, what 445 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: about Mark Meadows? Do you think he shares responsibility for 446 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: what happened on January six? Um? You know if you 447 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: take Cassidy's testimony at face value, the answer is yes, Um, 448 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: I paid particular attention to something no one else cares 449 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: about it because it's it's way down in the weeds. 450 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: But one of the things that I was watching online 451 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: doing something else. And when she said that, she wouldn't 452 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: have talked to the chief of staff and said that. 453 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: And it was he was sitting on the sofa. That's 454 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: my old soap. I used to sit on that sofa 455 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: right by that fireplace. I know exactly what she's talking about. 456 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: She said. She walked into the office and said, Mark, 457 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: there's you know that there's where ians are getting close 458 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: to the to the to the Capitol. And he didn't 459 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: even look up from his his his his his cell phone. 460 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: And the chief and then the chief White House Counsel 461 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: came down and said the same thing. And he didn't 462 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: even address me, didn't even look at them. He stared 463 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: at his phone and and you know, it was sort 464 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: of detached. That to me, Um indicated that the West 465 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: Wing was completely broken, that the processes had broken down, 466 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: the protections that are afforded to a president in terms 467 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: of the people who could get to him and get 468 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: him information had broken down. Um, I describe it as 469 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: every It was about twenty seven different things have to 470 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: go wrong for an airplane to crash. Um, the same 471 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: has to be true for there to be a to 472 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: be there a riot uh in the capital in January 473 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: six and it's now like everything was broken. And do 474 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: I hold the chief of staff responsible for that? Yeah? 475 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: In part I would. I would not be proud of 476 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: the work that I had done if I was chief 477 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: on that wash, that's for sure. Well, that's that's interesting 478 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: to hear because obviously Mark Meadows was not the only person. 479 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: As you said, if twenty seven things need to go wrong, 480 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: but if he was the chief of staff, I'm a 481 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: little surprised even to hear you say that, considering you 482 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: to go back. You were sort of part of the 483 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: Tea Party movement, the Freedom Caucus. Guys, is it accurate 484 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: to say you have been friends? Are you friends? What? 485 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: What did you see change that leads you to sound 486 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: disappointed with someone I believe you had worked closely with 487 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: and cooperatively with. What what happened to Mark Meadows? Yeah? 488 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to Mark Meadows, but your 489 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: questions is fair one which was are we were we friends? Yes, 490 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: I don't know what we are now. But the reason 491 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: I and I'm giving you this opinion is it that's chief. 492 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: That's what chiefs of staff do, right, we're not We're 493 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: supposed to call them like we see him. Our job job, 494 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: president asked me one time, isn't like how do you 495 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: summarize your job? It's as president, I'm a guy who's 496 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: responsible telling you all the crap you don't want to 497 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: hear because everybody else is afraid to do it. There's 498 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: a reason that the life expectancy of a chief of 499 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 1: staff is less than a year and a half. Barack 500 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: Obama had four in his first term. Donald Trump had four. 501 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: That's not that's a little bit higher than usual, but 502 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: not much. When you get paid to tell the president 503 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: stuff he doesn't want to hear and do all those 504 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: things he doesn't want to do, um, the relationship doesn't 505 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: last very long. And that's what I'm looking I'm sort 506 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: of looking at this. I'm a disinterested an interested third 507 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: party at this point. I worked for all these folks 508 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: and all these folks, but you've got to call him 509 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: like you see him. And when you see a White House, 510 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: that's broken and a chief of staff that's detached. Um, 511 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: then you have to sort of draw attention to and say, look, 512 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: that's that that shouldn't be the case. That was a 513 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: failure at some place. And while the president is always 514 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: responsible h for his own actions and also the people 515 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: that he had points and chooses to advise him, the 516 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: chief of staff is the next guy in line in 517 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: that building. So at this point, what do you think 518 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: comes next in terms of either the likelihood of Mr 519 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: Meadows complying with the subpoena from the committee or is 520 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: it likely more likely than it has been that d 521 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 1: o J goes after him for that they decided not 522 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: to What what's the next step when it comes to 523 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: Mark Meadows and his decision not to comply so far? Yeah, 524 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: it's been a long time. Said practice law, and I 525 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: never practice a criminal law at all. But if I 526 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: were a betting man, I would bet that Mark Meadows 527 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: would be indicted now, um, and that he would have 528 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: to show up for his He've indicted for failing to 529 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: to come to testify to the committee, and that he 530 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: will show up and he'll take the fifth plead the 531 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: fifth Amendment. Um. I think it's a fair question ask 532 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: who else might be might be coming forward. I understand 533 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: that White as Chief Council Pet Sippaloni was subpoena yesterday. 534 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: Be very interesting to see if he shows up. He's 535 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: got attorney client privilege on some things, but not all things. 536 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: Pat's an honest man. I don't believe him to be 537 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: the type of person who would lie, so would be 538 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: curious to see if he testifies. No, like I said, 539 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: because of the testimony on Tuesday, UM, I don't think 540 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: this process is stopping anytime soon. I think you're looking 541 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: at that dozens of more witnesses and at least ten 542 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: more hearings or something like that. This is this is. 543 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: Tuesday's hearing was a watershed that I think we'll see 544 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: repercussions of for many weeks. It's not many months, and 545 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: maybe longer than that. So what do you think former 546 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: President Trump's place in the party is now? I think 547 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: he's damaged, There's no question. I think that's the That's 548 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: the really interesting question. From a political standpoint. I think 549 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: if there was any winners this week, it was Mike 550 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: Pence and Ron De Santis and Tim Scott and Mike 551 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: Pompeo and Nicki Haley, anybody who was thinking about running 552 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: against him UM now sees him I think as damaged. 553 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: He has damaged. At some point you have to wonder, 554 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: if there's just not Trump fatigue, why wouldn't even the 555 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: hardest core right wing you know, maga vote or go. 556 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: You know what I can get any I can get 557 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: all the policies of Donald Trump with Rod de Santis 558 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: without all the baggage. That's the type of of of 559 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: discussion that you're starting to hear now within Republican circles. 560 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: Certain list folks who absolutely still defend the president a percent, 561 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: But I think there's a lot of oxygen given to 562 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: those UM that next for the first tier of challengers 563 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: this week, and I think you're much more likely now 564 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: to have a very vigorous Republican primary season going into four. 565 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: And that might change, and all may change. It may 566 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: turn out to Kasidy Hutchins is lying through a teeth. 567 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that's going to be the case, 568 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: but it may be. UM. But but if it, if 569 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't change from what we saw on Tuesday, I 570 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: think you've seen half a dozen people at least running 571 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: against Donald Trump, I should sneak in one more substance 572 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: question before we even continue on the politics, especially because 573 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: you you've mentioned you know ten more hearings. UM one 574 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: has has the Committee asked you for any information? You 575 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: weren't chief of staff at the time, But have you 576 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: have you talked to them now? I have? I not been. 577 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: I'm in communication with Adam kinsing or on social mass 578 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: Adam and I were friends when he was in Washington, 579 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: d C. So if anybody ask me if I've talked 580 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: to the Commission, I talked to Adam, but we played 581 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: baseball together on the congressional team, and I asked him 582 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: if he was going to go to the game this week, 583 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: excuse me this month. But I have not been subpoena on, 584 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: not been. No one's caught contact of me. I don't 585 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: have any information. I was not in the White House. UM, 586 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: and wasn't even in Northern Ireland because of COVID. I 587 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: was home in South Carolina. UM. Yeah. And one other 588 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: thing on especially as we look forward to the mid terms. Uh. 589 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: It came out a little while back from the Committee, 590 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: the assertion that Senator Ron Johnson, the Republican from Wisconsin, 591 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: wanted to give Vice President Pence a list of alternate 592 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: alternate electors. I'm wondering what you make of that information. 593 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: And also does does Johnson have to campaign against attacks 594 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: on this how how does this play into any members 595 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: of Congress, any senators who may have been involved on 596 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: campaign trail. Yeah, generally, well, I think the Democrats want 597 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: this hearing to sort of or down to all of 598 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, the damage to sort of down to the 599 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: Republican Party generally. I don't think you're seeing that. It's 600 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: very much a Trump centric thing, and for that reason, 601 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: I don't see he don't think these hearings will have 602 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: any direct impact on the on the House of Representatives. 603 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: I fully expent Republicans to take that. The Senate is 604 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: a little bit different. Senate races are always different than 605 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: House races, and certainly Ron Johnson's name coming up in 606 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: that hearing on Tuesday is going to give him one 607 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: more thing that he has to deal with back home. 608 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: We have a saying in the business, if you're explaining, 609 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: you're losing, and he might have to start to explain 610 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: why he had that slate of other electors um And 611 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: there's also when it comes to the Senate, sometimes voters 612 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: just want calm. They want they want peace and quiet, 613 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: not always, but they want calm. And you have to 614 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: wonder if the Republicans are offering that day in Georgia 615 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: and does herschel Walker, Um is he the sort of 616 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: calm hand that the voters might want if they get 617 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: to the if they get to novem or just decide 618 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: that they're tired of all this thing? What people who 619 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: are boring, incompetent and and uh and don't don't make 620 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: a lot of news. So um, I don't think it's 621 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: going to have a major impact on the Senate races, 622 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: but there may be individual races um that where this 623 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: does become relevant, and the Senate is so tight and 624 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: it currently obviously um that it may have an impact 625 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: on the Senate. Once again doubts seriously has any impact 626 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: on the House races at all. Those are a couple 627 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: key Senate races to keep an eye on. And now 628 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned Adam Kinzinger, uh he and Liz Cheney are 629 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: on this panel. I think it probably is fair to 630 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: say they are not considered part of the House Republican 631 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: conference mainstream right now? What what do you think their 632 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: role should be and will be in their conference. As 633 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: this moves along, does it does the committees work I 634 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: guess legitimize their efforts. No, And I have been an 635 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: opponent of there's I disagree with the decision from from 636 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: the get care, and I told Adam that because again 637 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: he has and I are friends. It legitimated. Look, it's 638 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: it's not people think this is an investigation. It's not. 639 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: This is a political which there's no question about that. 640 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: It's Democrats and two Republicans of hate hate Donald Trump. 641 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: And you're not seeing all the transcripts, that's true. You're 642 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: not seeing any cross examination, that's true. This is not 643 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: a fair hearing by any stretch of the imagination. And 644 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: it's certainly not a criminal investigation. Much of what Cassidy 645 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: Hutchington said the other day, for example, was hearsay would 646 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: never be allowed in a in a criminal proceeding. That 647 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: being said, when a Republican witness who works for Republican 648 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: administration under oaths as the Republican did wrong, did something wrong, 649 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: the Republicans should pay attention to that. So I'm not 650 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: trying to you know, it's a shame that I feel 651 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: like I have to give the commission credibility because I 652 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: think it's been a it's been wrong from the beginning. UM. 653 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: But when you have Republicans under oath saying that Republicans 654 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: did something wrong, then Republicans should pay attention and respond 655 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: to it. But no, Listen loses, Uh, Adams leaving, he's 656 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: not running for for a re election, so he'll be 657 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: gone after the mid terms. Of my guests, and Liz loses. 658 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: So no, there they're role about public conferences zero after 659 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: this is over. And what about Kevin McCarthy was it 660 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: Do you still think it was a good idea for 661 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: him to keep members obviously other than those two off 662 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: of the panel. Yeah, I actually think it was. It 663 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: was Pelosi he made this mistake, and think Kevin did 664 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: the only thing he could under the circumstances. Pelosi, if 665 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: she really wanted to harm Donald Trump, UM, would should 666 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: have wanted to have Republicans watched the hearings. Uh. And 667 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: if she had allowed Jim Jordan's and Andy Biggs on 668 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: the committee on the committee, Fox would have covered it 669 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: more and Republicans would have been watching it. And Republicans 670 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: who still to this day think that Trump won the 671 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: election would be hard pressed to maintain that position after 672 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: seeing all the all the evidence that has been presented, 673 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: Republicans who still think that January six was a peaceful 674 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: demonstration would be really hard pressed to maintain that after 675 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 1: seeing the evidence that has been laid out. Um, so, 676 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: I think Nancy was the who actually made a mistake here. 677 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: If she wanted to impact the general electorate, she should 678 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: have had a whole nation want to watch it and 679 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: tune these things. And as it turns out, um, you know, 680 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: I think only half the country is probably paying attention 681 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: to them. All right, Mr mulvaney, thank you so much 682 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: for joining us. That's Mick mulvaney, former White House Acting 683 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: Chief of Staff during the Trump administration. Let's bring in 684 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: the panel. I feel like we have a lot to 685 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: sort through there. And Happy July four, Mr mulvaney. Happy 686 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: July fourth to Jeannie she and Zano and Rick Davis 687 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: coming back to us our panel to discuss guys. I 688 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: want to hear your takeaways from that. Also, I am 689 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: wondering what you make of this comment from Senator Pat 690 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: to me, the Republican from Pennsylvania who also spoke on 691 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's balance of power. Uh in terms of his takeaways 692 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: from the January six committee, and where it leaves former 693 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: President Trump. I think he disqualified himself from serving in 694 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: public office by virtue of his post election behavior, especially 695 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: leading right up to January sixth. I think the revelations 696 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: from this committee um make his path to even the 697 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: Republican nomination much more tenuous. So, uh, Rick, I I 698 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: want to hear your opinion not only on Toomey's assessment there, 699 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: but what we heard, uh from Mr Mulvaney, who who 700 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: seems to think that the former president is is weaker 701 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: than he was before in terms of the Republican nomination 702 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: if he were to run again in four Rick, where 703 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: does the January six committee investigation leave Donald Trump in 704 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: the Republican primary if he were to run. Well, I 705 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: don't know even about the Republican primary, but I think 706 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: Mick was right. I mean, this has definitely been a weakening, 707 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: but there's been an a weakening going on really since 708 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: he left the presidency, had just started with this commission hearings. 709 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: But when you have the Wall Street Journal editorializing that 710 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: Donald Trump shouldn't run, you know, a organ of uh 711 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: uh conservatism, you know and and and you know Washington Examiner, 712 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: another conservative outlet, you know, highly critical umbraiding Trump UH 713 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: this last week. These are these are echoing through uh, 714 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: these communities within the conservative movement and Republican Party and 715 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: and and they're going to have an impact. And and 716 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: I think the point that Mick made about having Republicans 717 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: testifying at the hearing about Republicans has been the most 718 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: effective way of of basically giving it the credibility that 719 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: it didn't have by having Republicans actually sitting in the 720 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: committee other than you know, Cheney and and and Kinsinger. 721 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 1: So I think these things are having an impact. Hard 722 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: to tell how it's going to impact Donald Trump and 723 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: his decision even whether to run or not. UM, but 724 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: but clearly his popularity is on the Wayne. So, Jennie, 725 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: I I'm curious what you make on on takeaways from 726 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: the other days hearing, UH, thinking of what Mr Mulvaaney 727 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: said that, yes, there's been a lot of attention on 728 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: that line. That image that we kind of all have 729 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: of former President Trump leaning for the steering wheel jostling 730 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: with a Secret Service agent may have been the most 731 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: dramatic part. But as Mr mulvaney said, he he is 732 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: of the opinion that the most important part are and 733 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: more important part was Trump knowing there were guns there, 734 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: the idea of violence being a possibility, and the president 735 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: at the time knowing that. What what is your main 736 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: takeaway from the Hutchinson testimony and where does that uh 737 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: that I guess fight with Secret Service rank in what 738 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: we should be contemplating. Well, you know, I couldn't agree 739 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: more with with what mc mulvaney said during your conversation, 740 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: which was fascinating. And you know when he made the case, 741 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: as you just mentioned that that wasn't the most important point. 742 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: It may have been the most salacious, it wasn't the 743 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: most important. I think legally that is absolutely true, because 744 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: nobody is disputing the fact that the president wanted to 745 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: go to the Capitol that day and he was angry 746 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: when he couldn't. Whether he grabbed the wheel or somebody's 747 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: clavical or not, nobody is disputing the fact that he 748 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't care if the mag Trump, how do you say that, 749 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: Jack Mag's right, that's the That's the one thing I 750 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: did in research is how to pronounce that work? How 751 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: to pronounce that so you know, whether they he wanted 752 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: the people to come in his crowd to be bigger. 753 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: That sounds like exactly what we know about Donald Trump, 754 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: whether they had weapons or not, and then to march 755 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: up to the Capitol. Those are the important things, um 756 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: legally in terms of culpability, in terms of consciousness of guilt. 757 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: Um So I think that is what is most important. 758 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,919 Speaker 1: But I will tell you I spent last night doing 759 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: something I've never done in my life, Jack, which was 760 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: listening to a primary out of Wyoming, of all places, 761 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,439 Speaker 1: And what I heard back to your conversation is that 762 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: whether or not Trump runs in has a chance of winning, 763 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: this whole Maga movement is a lot bigger than any individual, 764 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: whether Mark Meadows is legally culpable or Donald Trump runs 765 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: are not. You hear a belief among people on the 766 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: ground that the election was stolen, and in your conversation 767 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,240 Speaker 1: it struck me and I wrote it down. Nick Mulvaney says, 768 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: this committee is a political witch hunt, and I think 769 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,879 Speaker 1: that tells you the amount of division and polarization. It's 770 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: bigger than Donald Trump, and I think that's what's going 771 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: to sustain regardless of what he decides to do. Right. Well, 772 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: that's one good point. Also, you know, on the point 773 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,399 Speaker 1: of calling it a witch hunt. I would point out 774 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: Congress is pretty partisan. Uh. Congressional investigations are probably naturally 775 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: going to be a lot more politicized, a lot more 776 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: partisan than uh something from the executive branch. Uh. So 777 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: I take that for what it's worth. One other key 778 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: point from Mr Mulvaney on Mark Meadows uh emphasizing that 779 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: if miss Hutchinson Hutchinson's testimony is correct, then a significant 780 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: amount of responsibility does fall to Mark Meadows, who was 781 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: the chief of staff at the time. Uh. Rick, what 782 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: have we learned about uh Meadows and Trump? Aside? Who 783 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: else appears to have had a chance to stop this 784 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: from happening on January six and didn't act the right way? Yeah. 785 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: I thought the characterization that mc made of um Meadows 786 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: sort of sitting on his couch disconnected the process failing. 787 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: I think that might have been a bit of an understatement. Uh. 788 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,959 Speaker 1: Their their process is in place to keep bad things 789 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: from happening, both in and out of the White House, 790 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: and people are generally committed to do that. I think 791 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: this is different. I think these these processes that were 792 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: not ignored, they were subverted. I think most of the 793 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: most of the White House staff that we're engaged on 794 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: this process with with Donald Trump and and trying to 795 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: subvert the elections. We're in on it. And I think 796 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: there's no other characterization for for Meadows than to say 797 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: the guy was part of the problem. He was he 798 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: was actively trying to subvert an authentic election, and and 799 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: and it all was coming to unravel on January six, 800 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: And that's what you saw sitting on that couch. I 801 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 1: don't think it was because they were ignoring or hadn't 802 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: taken the right precautions. I think the guy was actively 803 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: out trying to subvert the election, and that's certainly what 804 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,919 Speaker 1: the testimonies indicated. Right. Well, guys, that is a little 805 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: bit of a heavy note to leave it on heading 806 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: into fourth of July weekend. But thank you so much, 807 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, Jeanie she in Zano for helping us make 808 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: sense of this news packed week. Everybody, please have a 809 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: great weekend. I'm on vacation now. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This 810 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg