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Speaker 1: Pushkin. So you were saying, I never thought about this,

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Speaker 1: that who was the first to sort of chop samples. Well,

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Speaker 1: you were kind of the originator of that, like getting

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Speaker 1: a sample and chopping it up.

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Speaker 2: Something that I paid close attention to in the early

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Speaker 2: part of my career, as far as samples and the

7
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Speaker 2: technique that I was using to sample. First of all,

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you how I got to the place of

9
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Speaker 2: the chopping style that I was using. Yeah. In 1990,

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Speaker 2: and this is in the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I talk about it. Iconic beats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing I had under my belt was

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Speaker 2: Big Daddy Kane, the two songs on his second album.

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Speaker 1: Which, another victory.

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Speaker 2: And Calling Mr. Welfare.

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Speaker 1: Which are classics.

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Speaker 2: Featuring cool DJ Red Alert, one of my favorite DJs

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Speaker 2: ever on. I had that and I had the Genius,

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Speaker 2: Words from the Genius album. I did 10 songs and

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Speaker 2: then my brother, LG Experience, he did four.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And Jesse West did the lead single. So I only

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Speaker 2: had Big Daddy Kane and that under my belt. You know,

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Speaker 2: I come in in 1989. Right. So somewhere around 91,

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Speaker 2: I had a meeting at... at Rush Producers Management. Because

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Speaker 2: Rush had an artist management division, and then Russell created

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Speaker 2: a producer management division.

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Speaker 1: Which always was confusing, because sometimes you'd feel like, was

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Speaker 1: that Def Jam or was that Rush? You know, like

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Speaker 1: Run DMC was Rush, but not Def Jam.

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Speaker 2: Well, it all came from Russell Simmons. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And how I got there is, I quit my job.

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Speaker 2: I was working at Con Edison in New York. And February...

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Speaker 2: At the top of February 1990, I had been going

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Speaker 2: back and forth about it in my mind, but I

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Speaker 2: finally resigned and decided I was going to take the

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Speaker 2: music up full time. So one day I'm in the

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Speaker 2: house somewhere around noon and I just got the idea.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yo, you only got Kane and the

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Speaker 2: Genius under your belt. You got to keep this thing

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Speaker 2: going or you're going to fizzle out. So. I always

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Speaker 2: admired Rush management and just Russell Simmons, Def Jam, that

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Speaker 2: whole circle at that point in time. And at that time,

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Speaker 2: if you wasn't, quote unquote, like he said, rolling with Rush...

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Speaker 2: You wasn't rolling at all. Yeah, yeah. So everybody was

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Speaker 2: over at Rush. So I said, call 411.

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Speaker 1: Who else was there, like on the management side, like

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Speaker 1: on the production side?

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Speaker 2: In the production division?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They called it RPM, Rush Producers Management. RPM. Okay, you

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Speaker 2: had Daddy-O over there. You had Hank Shockley.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Hank and Keith Shockley. You had a very young, large professor. Wow. Um,

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Speaker 2: they had a hefty, um, roster over there. And so

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Speaker 2: I'm at home and I get the idea cause I

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Speaker 2: want to be down with Rush. And I just said,

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Speaker 2: call information.

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Speaker 1: 411.

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Speaker 2: So the, uh, operator picks up and I asked for

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Speaker 2: the number to Rush management and she connects me. The

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Speaker 2: receptionist picks up over there at Rush. And I said, um,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking to speak to somebody about management. I said,

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Speaker 2: in particular, I'm a producer. And she said, oh, I

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Speaker 2: know who you need to speak to. You need to

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Speaker 2: speak to Francesca. She is the woman that's heading up

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Speaker 2: the producer management division. So she comes on the phone and,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm all shy and green. I'm new in

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Speaker 2: the business and I'm trying to explain to her, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I did Big Daddy Kane and and before I could

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Speaker 2: even get through the genius stuff, she said, I know

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Speaker 2: who you are. So that made the conversation easy because...

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Speaker 2: Big Daddy Kane was big, so I mean, it's not like... Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, but I was new and I was, that's

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Speaker 2: the only thing I had under my belt. So I

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Speaker 2: didn't think that she might have even been familiar with

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Speaker 2: me yet. But she probably was because I was pleased

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Speaker 2: when Kane's album came out. Because when you flip it

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Speaker 2: on the back, He had all the producers named in caps,

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Speaker 2: big caps. And my name was along with Teddy Riley,

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Speaker 2: Prince Paul, who's a huge influence to me. Prince Paul

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Speaker 2: going back to the early De La Soul days. Mr. C.

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Speaker 2: By the way, fun fact, the song on that album,

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Speaker 2: The House That C Built, is a house song on there.

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Speaker 2: Like without the credit, I did that. Really? That track, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because I got, there's a lot of levels to Easy

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Speaker 2: Mo B. I love hip hop. I am hip hop,

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Speaker 2: but I'm old enough to have grown up through the

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Speaker 2: disco stage and watching disco turn into house and all

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Speaker 2: of that. So I've always been well-rounded with the music.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, for anybody out there in the public that

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Speaker 2: never knew Easy Moby produced the house track on Big

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Speaker 2: Daddy Kane's second album. Now we're going to get back

95
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Speaker 2: to the chopping that I was telling you. And Rush

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Speaker 2: Producers Management and the woman Francesca Sparrow, rest in peace

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Speaker 2: to her because she's gone now, has a lot to

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Speaker 2: do with how my chopping style developed. So she called

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Speaker 2: this meeting up in the office for all, The producers,

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Speaker 2: everybody showed up. It was a lot of us. And

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Speaker 2: she had these memos printed out, enough to hand out

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Speaker 2: to all of us. So we're standing there and we're

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Speaker 2: looking at this paper with all these names on it,

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Speaker 2: names like, huge names like Sade, Prince, Anita Baker. I

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Speaker 2: remember Steve Miller Band was on the list. Les Zeppelin,

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Speaker 2: all kind of names. So we're looking at this list

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Speaker 2: of names. And out of nowhere, she just said, you

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Speaker 2: see that? And we all was looking up confused like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And she said, stay away from them. Because remember, at

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Speaker 2: that time, Bismarck, yeah, I need a haircut. And De

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Speaker 2: La Soul's Three Feet High and Rising were the first

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Speaker 2: to really, really come under fire for the samples and everything.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of the producers... That were doing those

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Speaker 2: records for those artists. Happened to be under the umbrella.

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Speaker 2: Of Rush over there. So she was giving us an

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Speaker 2: early warning. Just to say like look. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how you're going to do it. But you got to

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Speaker 2: fall back on a lot of these samples. After the

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Speaker 2: meeting was over. My car was parked right in front

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Speaker 2: of the office. I could literally step out of the door.

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Speaker 2: And just walk right over to my car. Across the sidewalk.

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Speaker 2: I sat in the car. Man, I was so depressed.

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Speaker 2: Because at that point in time, I was like, you

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Speaker 2: could call me at that time, I was a loop king.

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Speaker 2: Basically just looping a lot of stuff. And I sat

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Speaker 2: in the car and I started having conversations with myself.

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Speaker 2: You know that in the cartoons, the way they have

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Speaker 2: the real person and then there's the little other person,

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Speaker 2: the second them up here talking to each other. So

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Speaker 2: I'm carrying on conversations with myself. And I was like, man,

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Speaker 2: what am I going to do? And it's like the

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Speaker 2: little me up here, the other me talking to me said,

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Speaker 2: I just heard a voice said, why you got to

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Speaker 2: always loop? Why can't you chop the instruments out of

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Speaker 2: songs and make something original with it? As compared to

136
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Speaker 2: when you cut on a keyboard, It has a bank

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Speaker 2: of sounds. If you want a French horn, if you

138
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Speaker 2: want horns, if you want like a bass line, a bass, guitar, whatever.

139
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Speaker 2: And then what you do is track by track, you

140
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Speaker 2: go through the keyboard's banks. You lay the first track,

141
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Speaker 2: lay the bass line, the drums, then you come and

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Speaker 2: you add keys. And so my thing was, why can't

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Speaker 2: you do that? Instead of just relying on, simply relying

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Speaker 2: on looping. Yeah. And that's how we got tracks like

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Speaker 2: Craig Mack's Flavor In Your Ear. And even more complex,

146
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Speaker 2: his second single, Get Down. Wow. Where I'm basically taking

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Speaker 2: pieces of records, sections with, I don't know what, keyboards, horns,

148
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Speaker 2: whatever it is, Really small musical parts and manipulating them

149
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Speaker 2: through multi-pitch. Then here I come with the layering on top.

150
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Speaker 2: So long story short, she caused a habit. That meeting

151
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Speaker 2: caused a habit and the habit became a style.

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Speaker 1: And it was really, cause it was a workaround.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: How can I, cause some of those, I mean like

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Speaker 1: Steve Miller, Zeppelin, I mean, all that stuff's like classic

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Speaker 1: loop material.

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Speaker 2: And, and getting back to, um, Off the record, before

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Speaker 2: we even came on here, me and you were talking,

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Speaker 2: I noticed back at that time, most everybody was doing

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Speaker 2: just about the same thing. Everybody was looping, and it

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Speaker 2: hadn't advanced into the kind of thing I was doing.

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Speaker 2: I like to call it creative sampling. I think maybe

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Speaker 2: the closest thing was, and I have heavy admiration for them,

164
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Speaker 2: always did, was like the collages that The Bomb Squad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

166
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Speaker 2: Used to create for the Public Enemy records.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And, like, the habit just came with style, man. Yeah.

169
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Speaker 2: You can hear that, the chopping style. I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: really manipulating samples on records like, well, Flavian, in your ears,

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Speaker 2: an example of using instruments chopped from records to create

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Speaker 2: something brand new. Oh, man. Everything Remains Raw, Busta Rhymes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That was like Mac's example of that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Let's play a little of Everything Remains Raw.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: The pitch shifting. Yeah. So that pitch shifting would be

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Speaker 1: one sound, and.

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Speaker 2: You just manipulating that one sound to... Yeah, in the.

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Speaker 1: SP-1200, all of the machines, the MPC....

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Speaker 2: Whatever you use, whatever machine you have, they have a function,

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Speaker 2: a feature in there called multi-pitch. I know that's what

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Speaker 2: it's called in the SP-1200. And you can... Just like

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Speaker 2: if the sound was on a keyboard. I always like

184
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Speaker 2: to be on a sampling machine console. I never liked

185
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Speaker 2: sampling on a keyboard. I don't know, it's just something

186
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Speaker 2: about the feel. It feels better when you're sitting, you're tapping...

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Speaker 2: the beat out on a sampling drum machine. So I

188
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Speaker 2: got the multi-pitch thing, or I will do like a

189
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Speaker 2: special chop. Then I come on top, I got another layer,

190
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Speaker 2: and I'm playing chords. You hear me? Like in Everything

191
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Speaker 2: Remains Raw that we just heard. I'm playing chords, like two, three,

192
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Speaker 2: and four notes. And they're changing.

193
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

194
00:12:57,946 --> 00:13:02,886
Speaker 2: Sounding like somebody sitting at a Rhodes keyboard and nobody

195
00:13:02,946 --> 00:13:03,746
Speaker 2: was doing that.

196
00:13:04,166 --> 00:13:07,166
Speaker 1: Not only did you chop stuff, you were really good

197
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Speaker 1: at finding things to chop that are really unique sounding,

198
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Speaker 1: that really stand out. I mean, like on that, flavor

199
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Speaker 1: in your ear, of course, is another great example. It's

200
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Speaker 1: like you just... I don't know what that sound is.

201
00:13:23,156 --> 00:13:24,076
Speaker 1: No one knows what that sound is.

202
00:13:24,636 --> 00:13:29,136
Speaker 2: I'll share a secret with you. Besides the Rhodes and

203
00:13:29,196 --> 00:13:37,446
Speaker 2: Wurlitzer electric piano, the guitar is my favorite instrument. Flavor

204
00:13:37,466 --> 00:13:41,686
Speaker 2: in your ear. It's only two notes that carry, that's

205
00:13:41,706 --> 00:13:46,386
Speaker 2: the melody that carries the song. Plus the second record

206
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Speaker 2: on the coming album. It's a Party featuring Johnny. Everything

207
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Speaker 2: remains raw. I'm obsessed with guitars. I think where it

208
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Speaker 2: comes from is I feel like I always compensate it

209
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Speaker 2: for my actual abilities. I always wished that I could

210
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Speaker 2: play piano and all instruments fluidly.

211
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

212
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Speaker 2: So, Through the sampling techniques of multi-pitch and what the

213
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Speaker 2: machine could do, I just always imitated what a real

214
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Speaker 2: session player would do.

215
00:14:30,956 --> 00:14:32,196
Speaker 1: Wow.

216
00:14:33,216 --> 00:14:40,226
Speaker 2: Like taking one note of a Rhodes keyboard, playing a line,

217
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Speaker 2: and coming on top with another layer. Now we're creating

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Speaker 2: a chord. And this is not just two, it's three,

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Speaker 2: four tracks. And before you know it, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: Herbie Hancock sitting there, you know, playing in accompaniment with

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Speaker 2: two hands. I'm telling you, it was always to try

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Speaker 2: to compensate and make up from what I didn't actually have.

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Speaker 2: When I first started out, The Big Daddy Kane, two

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Speaker 2: tracks on his second album. It's a Big Daddy thing.

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Speaker 2: They bought the SP-1200.

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Speaker 1: They bought the SP-1200 that you made that on?

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Speaker 2: The two tracks that I did on his album. That

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Speaker 2: bought my SP-1200. And later on, I added on an

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Speaker 2: Akai S900 and the S950 rack mount samplers. So those

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Speaker 2: are the only two things that I had. And I remember...

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Speaker 2: going to other guys' house, other producers, and I go

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Speaker 2: in and they have like a hefty rack of keyboards.

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Speaker 2: I look and they got a rack mount, all this

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Speaker 2: outboard gear and stuff. Then I would go back to,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't even out of the projects yet. I was

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Speaker 2: still living with my parents. And then I would go

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Speaker 2: back to my house and the project and I look

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Speaker 2: over there in the corner and all I had versus

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Speaker 2: what I just saw at their house was, Just the

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Speaker 2: SP-1200 in the car, it's 950. And I vowed to myself,

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Speaker 2: I remember saying that, I said, y'all might have more

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Speaker 2: than me, I'm going to sound bigger than you.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: That was the object, was to compete with the equipment

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Speaker 2: that they had. Not even their style. It's just like,

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Speaker 2: producers had way better equipment and more equipment than me.

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Speaker 2: But I was destined to prove that these two machines,

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Speaker 2: I can sound just as big or better.

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Speaker 1: So how did you get that big sound? Would you

250
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Speaker 1: push certain settings?

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Speaker 2: Well, I told you that I grew up through all

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Speaker 2: of the phases of disco. And I want to focus

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Speaker 2: on that period right there. Let's say like the early

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Speaker 2: to mid-70s. I remember being a kid. and going into

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Speaker 2: the back park in my projects, Lafayette Gardens in Brooklyn.

256
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Speaker 2: And the mobile DJ thing is just something that I

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Speaker 2: became obsessed with because it was about the music, but

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Speaker 2: it also was even more about the system, the sound

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Speaker 2: system thing. And I come from that era where the

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Speaker 2: sound system and sonics, because the music is important. But sonically,

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Speaker 2: the way that music projects is everything. So I just

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Speaker 2: always wanted my music to have a lot of bass.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's where my heavy bass sound comes from.

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Speaker 2: And people might not know, since like 12, 13, around

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Speaker 2: 14 years old, for a couple of years, I started

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Speaker 2: playing drums in the church across the street. from my

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Speaker 2: projects on Lafayette Avenue. And still to this day, I

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Speaker 2: play drums. So, sonically, I know how the music should

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Speaker 2: project and sound from the sound systems out in the

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Speaker 2: park during the disco era and in the early hip-hop era.

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Speaker 2: I play drums, so I got a feel for how

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Speaker 2: I want my stuff to sound.

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Speaker 1: Was it always referencing the drum sounds you would make

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Speaker 1: and what you heard in the park? Or were there

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Speaker 1: any finished records that you could point to and be like,

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Speaker 1: It's got to sound as good as that.

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Speaker 2: It's just, sonically, it's just always been about how the

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Speaker 2: music hits the speakers. Shout out to DJ Premier, who

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Speaker 2: I know, and we actually used to record in the

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Speaker 2: same studio in New York, in Brooklyn, a studio called

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Speaker 2: Such A Sound. And when me and my group, rapping

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Speaker 2: is fundamental, when we would be coming in, we've been

283
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Speaker 2: coming in, walking up the stairs, and Guru and Premier

284
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Speaker 2: is just leaving. But I heard a story about Premier

285
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Speaker 2: had a rule back in that early 90s era. He

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Speaker 2: made his beats on a boombox, as opposed to like

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Speaker 2: me in my house, I made music on a real

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Speaker 2: system with big house speakers and everything. But I understand

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Speaker 2: what he meant.

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Speaker 1: He would monitor out of a boombox?

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Speaker 2: He made beats out of a boombox. Now, let me

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Speaker 2: tell you why I understand that is because the boombox

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00:19:46,946 --> 00:19:53,866
Speaker 2: has been manufactured, sonically tailored for anything that comes out

294
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Speaker 2: of that box, whether it's the radio or you use

295
00:19:56,566 --> 00:19:59,646
Speaker 2: the cassette in there. It's going to give you... the

296
00:19:59,706 --> 00:20:04,596
Speaker 2: frequencies have already been tailored. So when you use the

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Speaker 2: boom box, everything that he made out of that box,

298
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Speaker 2: if it sounds right coming out of the box, it's

299
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Speaker 2: going to sound good in the car. It's going to

300
00:20:12,816 --> 00:20:17,076
Speaker 2: sound good in the system. So, and the same thing

301
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Speaker 2: for me, I always felt like it was always about

302
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Speaker 2: How the music hits the speakers.

303
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Projection of sound.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

306
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Speaker 2: That's always been important to me.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And being a little kid in the living room and

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Speaker 2: watching my father play a lot of 45s, I was

310
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Speaker 2: always fascinated by the sound of the 45 versus the album. Totally.

311
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Speaker 2: Because you know on the album, the grooves are smaller.

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Speaker 2: On a 45, you can spread the grooves out more.

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Speaker 2: Same thing with a 12-inch. 12-inch singles and 45s are

314
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Speaker 2: always louder than the album. And to me, there's nothing

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Speaker 2: like the sound of dropping the needle to a 45.

316
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Speaker 2: And I was like, that's the sound that I want.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: That sound of my father playing records in the living room.

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Speaker 2: Real gritty, heavy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And he played all concerts. In the book, you

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Speaker 1: talk about how even like Creedence Clearwater Revival was a

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Speaker 1: favorite of his.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. My father was a man of many records,

324
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Speaker 2: and his range was so crazy, man. One minute he's

325
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Speaker 2: playing Shirley Caesar, James Cleveland, the Jackson Southerners. Then the next,

326
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Speaker 2: he's jumping on to, what is it, Creedence Clearwater Revival.

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Speaker 2: He used to play that 45, the one with Lodi.

328
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Speaker 1: And Bad Moon Rising.

329
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Speaker 2: And Bad Moon Rising on the flip.

330
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He played that. A lot of soul. Early soul, like

332
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Speaker 2: Jackie Wilson. Wow. Aretha Franklin. Much later things like Al Green,

333
00:22:04,516 --> 00:22:09,726
Speaker 2: Syl Johnson. Everything, man. The drifters up on the roof.

334
00:22:10,386 --> 00:22:14,286
Speaker 2: So he's the one where I get jazz. He had

335
00:22:14,346 --> 00:22:18,446
Speaker 2: like Kenny Burrell. Not a lot of jazz. Yeah, like

336
00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:26,096
Speaker 2: Cannonball Adderley, Kenny Burrell, Miles Davis. Yeah, things like that

337
00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:26,576
Speaker 2: in the house.

338
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Speaker 1: It's interesting you like guitarists because Miles always had a... Well,

339
00:22:31,936 --> 00:22:33,476
Speaker 1: once you get into the 70s, Miles always had a

340
00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:38,786
Speaker 1: really good guitarist with him. And Kenny Burrell, guitarist. Your

341
00:22:38,806 --> 00:22:42,386
Speaker 1: dad was also playing rock. Gospel has a lot of guitar.

342
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Speaker 1: So I feel like.

343
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Speaker 1: You might have gotten that maybe from.

344
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Speaker 2: Maybe I did pick up the love of the guitar

345
00:22:51,136 --> 00:22:56,556
Speaker 2: back then through a lot of that music. Lightning Hopkins. Oh,

346
00:22:56,596 --> 00:23:01,196
Speaker 2: my goodness. Bo Diddley. Jimmy Reed. We're talking about real,

347
00:23:01,256 --> 00:23:06,816
Speaker 2: real deep Delta blues. Yeah. Things like that. He would

348
00:23:06,856 --> 00:23:09,556
Speaker 2: play in the house. Muddy Waters. Elmore James.

349
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Speaker 1: Wow.

350
00:23:11,496 --> 00:23:15,056
Speaker 2: This is where all of my knowledge from the music

351
00:23:15,096 --> 00:23:19,486
Speaker 2: comes from. I didn't even realize it, but I was

352
00:23:19,496 --> 00:23:22,666
Speaker 2: being taught. And it helped me by the time I

353
00:23:23,806 --> 00:23:25,386
Speaker 2: arrived to produce.

354
00:23:29,646 --> 00:23:33,436
Speaker 1: There's something, talking about those deep Delta blues, man, those

355
00:23:33,496 --> 00:23:37,236
Speaker 1: records sometimes you put them on and they're stark, they're bleak,

356
00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:42,016
Speaker 1: and they're sometimes like, just like sometimes the titles just

357
00:23:42,036 --> 00:23:44,266
Speaker 1: hit you, like Life Was So Rough, the Songs like

358
00:23:44,976 --> 00:23:48,316
Speaker 1: I'm Fixin' to Die Blues. And then when you listen to,

359
00:23:48,316 --> 00:23:51,416
Speaker 1: I always think about the connection between some of those

360
00:23:51,476 --> 00:23:53,976
Speaker 1: blues records and some of the themes that Pac was

361
00:23:54,016 --> 00:23:56,496
Speaker 1: hitting on. Because people always say, well, Pac, you know,

362
00:23:56,516 --> 00:23:58,796
Speaker 1: he was rapping about his death. He was rapping about this.

363
00:23:58,816 --> 00:24:00,746
Speaker 1: But it seems like there was a tradition of that.

364
00:24:01,666 --> 00:24:06,466
Speaker 2: Maybe the beat changed. Maybe the beat changed. But rap

365
00:24:07,126 --> 00:24:11,046
Speaker 2: is also the blues. Okay. Hip hop is the noun.

366
00:24:12,696 --> 00:24:17,936
Speaker 2: Rap is the verb. And maybe the beat changed. Maybe

367
00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:21,096
Speaker 2: the musical styles changed. But when you get right down

368
00:24:21,166 --> 00:24:24,686
Speaker 2: to it, rap is the blues. Grandmaster Flash and the

369
00:24:24,726 --> 00:24:27,246
Speaker 2: Furious Fives, the message is the blues.

370
00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:27,906
Speaker 1: Yeah.

371
00:24:28,826 --> 00:24:31,626
Speaker 2: It's just to, at that time, a more modern and

372
00:24:31,786 --> 00:24:32,606
Speaker 2: up-to-date beat.

373
00:24:32,806 --> 00:24:36,706
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the problems, the problems, the conditions changed. The

374
00:24:36,746 --> 00:24:39,806
Speaker 1: problems changed, but still miserable conditions, still problems.

375
00:24:39,896 --> 00:24:40,246
Speaker 2: Exactly.

376
00:24:40,266 --> 00:24:41,216
Speaker 1: So plenty problems.

377
00:24:41,416 --> 00:24:41,576
Speaker 2: Yeah.

378
00:24:42,706 --> 00:24:45,726
Speaker 1: And so it's like it is an updated blues in

379
00:24:45,786 --> 00:24:46,526
Speaker 1: a way, you know?

380
00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:49,426
Speaker 2: Yeah.

381
00:24:49,486 --> 00:24:53,566
Speaker 1: And so when I hear things like if I die tonight,

382
00:24:53,686 --> 00:24:53,926
Speaker 1: you know?

383
00:24:53,946 --> 00:24:57,636
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like there's a similar psyche

384
00:24:57,716 --> 00:24:58,396
Speaker 2: and a similar.

385
00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:13,776
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? A similar spirit.

386
00:25:13,956 --> 00:25:18,576
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tupac was definitely the blues. Definitely. I just heard

387
00:25:18,646 --> 00:25:21,466
Speaker 2: something that I forgot all about in the song that

388
00:25:21,506 --> 00:25:25,586
Speaker 2: I haven't even had the reason to think about for decades.

389
00:25:26,186 --> 00:25:28,386
Speaker 2: And If I Die Tonight, I remember I wanted to

390
00:25:28,586 --> 00:25:33,676
Speaker 2: use George Clinton's Atomic Dog, but it was already too

391
00:25:33,716 --> 00:25:37,716
Speaker 2: many samples in there. So I just heard it. I

392
00:25:38,256 --> 00:25:40,856
Speaker 2: was like, wow, oh, snap, you did that. I took

393
00:25:41,116 --> 00:25:44,876
Speaker 2: the kick. And rolled it backwards. That's where you hit it.

394
00:25:46,096 --> 00:25:47,116
Speaker 1: Oh, that's the atomic duck.

395
00:25:47,596 --> 00:25:51,406
Speaker 2: No, it's not. I took a kick and reversed it.

396
00:25:52,366 --> 00:25:54,846
Speaker 2: So that when you play it, instead of it being boom.

397
00:25:55,526 --> 00:25:58,946
Speaker 2: And I was hitting it on the one.

398
00:26:02,906 --> 00:26:03,406
Speaker 1: To try to.

399
00:26:03,486 --> 00:26:05,986
Speaker 2: I just heard that. I didn't pay attention to that

400
00:26:06,046 --> 00:26:08,306
Speaker 2: in years. And it was all because I wanted to

401
00:26:08,476 --> 00:26:11,976
Speaker 2: use atomic dog, but we already had. Too many samples

402
00:26:12,056 --> 00:26:12,636
Speaker 2: in the record.

403
00:26:12,976 --> 00:26:17,306
Speaker 1: Wow. So you just turn that around and get that feel.

404
00:26:17,406 --> 00:26:18,186
Speaker 1: Hold on, let me hear that again.

405
00:26:18,206 --> 00:26:18,826
Speaker 2: A backwards kick.

406
00:26:23,426 --> 00:26:26,106
Speaker 1: That's amazing. That's amazing, man.

407
00:26:27,186 --> 00:26:29,136
Speaker 2: And then when I first got the machine, I just

408
00:26:29,236 --> 00:26:32,736
Speaker 2: went through every function to see what else can I

409
00:26:32,916 --> 00:26:36,916
Speaker 2: use in the features that helped me in making beats.

410
00:26:37,756 --> 00:26:41,726
Speaker 1: How many beats at that time What were you making,

411
00:26:41,886 --> 00:26:42,526
Speaker 1: early 90s?

412
00:26:42,886 --> 00:26:48,266
Speaker 2: A day? Yeah. I might make two or three beats

413
00:26:48,346 --> 00:26:50,106
Speaker 2: in one day, and then maybe for the next two

414
00:26:50,146 --> 00:26:53,686
Speaker 2: days I might not make nothing. I've always been like that.

415
00:26:54,376 --> 00:26:59,636
Speaker 2: I make music on impulse because I hear something special.

416
00:26:59,856 --> 00:27:03,616
Speaker 2: I don't just make music just for the heck of it.

417
00:27:04,296 --> 00:27:07,696
Speaker 2: I got to really, really feel something. All I could

418
00:27:07,716 --> 00:27:10,786
Speaker 2: hear is just maybe one note. of a guitar, like

419
00:27:10,866 --> 00:27:15,986
Speaker 2: in Flavoring Your Ear, and that'll spark me to start creating.

420
00:27:16,346 --> 00:27:18,366
Speaker 1: So you have to feel inspired. You have to want

421
00:27:18,386 --> 00:27:19,206
Speaker 1: to get something off your chest.

422
00:27:19,226 --> 00:27:21,946
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not about quantity. It's about quality, man.

423
00:27:22,106 --> 00:27:22,326
Speaker 1: Yeah.

424
00:27:22,706 --> 00:27:24,926
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah.

425
00:27:25,926 --> 00:27:28,706
Speaker 1: What is the guitar used on, Flavoring Your Ear?

426
00:27:29,156 --> 00:27:31,336
Speaker 2: It's already on the record, and I'm not going to

427
00:27:31,376 --> 00:27:35,916
Speaker 2: tell you what record that is. Okay. It's been going

428
00:27:36,096 --> 00:27:40,476
Speaker 2: on 30-something years, and Nobody can figure it out.

429
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:41,286
Speaker 1: No one's found it.

430
00:27:41,576 --> 00:27:42,976
Speaker 2: I've been driving them crazy.

431
00:27:44,336 --> 00:27:45,436
Speaker 1: Do you get enjoyment out of that?

432
00:27:46,076 --> 00:27:47,966
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.

433
00:27:48,776 --> 00:27:51,756
Speaker 1: What did you think when you heard Craig Mack's verse?

434
00:27:52,476 --> 00:27:54,776
Speaker 1: Were you in the studio with him? Oh, yeah. Okay.

435
00:27:55,186 --> 00:27:58,646
Speaker 2: I like my intro. I used to always like to

436
00:27:58,686 --> 00:28:04,186
Speaker 2: put intros at the top of a song for the beats.

437
00:28:05,006 --> 00:28:08,086
Speaker 2: And the reason for that is to give the DJ

438
00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:15,106
Speaker 2: something to play with. And they did exactly that. See,

439
00:28:15,136 --> 00:28:21,156
Speaker 2: because the concept is based upon the breakbeat, the most

440
00:28:21,256 --> 00:28:27,056
Speaker 2: important part of the record that a DJ can juggle

441
00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:30,636
Speaker 2: back and forth and repeat over and over. So with

442
00:28:30,676 --> 00:28:32,936
Speaker 2: the intro at the top of Flavor In Your Ear,

443
00:28:33,576 --> 00:28:39,626
Speaker 2: I did this thing where, boom. Boom, boom, boom. And

444
00:28:39,666 --> 00:28:42,816
Speaker 2: he went right on top of the wood there. Just like.

445
00:28:45,416 --> 00:28:50,376
Speaker 2: But his rhymes, Craig was different. He was real lyrical

446
00:28:51,576 --> 00:28:57,006
Speaker 2: and in a sense comedic at times. I used to

447
00:28:57,026 --> 00:29:02,106
Speaker 2: look at Craig as maybe like another Bismarck-y.

448
00:29:02,946 --> 00:29:03,746
Speaker 1: Interesting, yeah.

449
00:29:03,786 --> 00:29:05,526
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me they had similarities.

450
00:29:05,766 --> 00:29:10,946
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, they were characters. Yeah. So there was something

451
00:29:10,966 --> 00:29:13,306
Speaker 1: about Craig Mack larger than life, that was larger than life.

452
00:29:13,426 --> 00:29:15,026
Speaker 1: Different from how big he was larger than life.

453
00:29:15,186 --> 00:29:15,406
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

454
00:29:15,666 --> 00:29:15,926
Speaker 1: You know?

455
00:29:17,046 --> 00:29:22,766
Speaker 2: They both, to me, had, like, drunken speaking styles. Real comedic.

456
00:29:24,056 --> 00:29:27,216
Speaker 2: Always throwing little funny things or things that make you, like,

457
00:29:29,156 --> 00:29:31,716
Speaker 2: respond to. So, I don't know. That's just the way

458
00:29:31,736 --> 00:29:32,496
Speaker 2: I always saw it.

459
00:29:32,916 --> 00:29:35,496
Speaker 1: Was he that way as a person, too? Just... As

460
00:29:35,576 --> 00:29:35,926
Speaker 1: a friend.

461
00:29:36,106 --> 00:29:42,246
Speaker 2: Craig was actually serious. He could be, um, fun, but

462
00:29:42,266 --> 00:29:44,716
Speaker 2: believe it or not, Craig Mack was, um, and we

463
00:29:44,776 --> 00:29:48,776
Speaker 2: bonded over that. He was very serious, always serious about God. Hmm.

464
00:29:49,886 --> 00:29:56,586
Speaker 2: He had this thing, this obsession with the rapture and

465
00:29:56,626 --> 00:30:01,066
Speaker 2: Jesus coming back, a.k.a. the song on his album, When

466
00:30:01,156 --> 00:30:05,636
Speaker 2: God Comes, if you remember that song. Yeah.

467
00:30:05,956 --> 00:30:08,156
Speaker 1: That came from him having an obsession.

468
00:30:07,756 --> 00:30:10,846
Speaker 2: With, Yeah, he was very serious about God, and he

469
00:30:10,886 --> 00:30:13,686
Speaker 2: was always concerned about the rapture.

470
00:30:14,646 --> 00:30:15,826
Speaker 1: And he would just talk to you about it?

471
00:30:16,086 --> 00:30:18,686
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that was fine with me. That was cool,

472
00:30:18,706 --> 00:30:21,086
Speaker 2: because I got a strong belief in God, too. But

473
00:30:21,506 --> 00:30:23,936
Speaker 2: it just kind of surprised me, because I was like, yo,

474
00:30:23,956 --> 00:30:28,196
Speaker 2: for him to be that comedic and funny and drunken

475
00:30:28,236 --> 00:30:35,346
Speaker 2: style on the songs and saying things like robotic, what

476
00:30:35,406 --> 00:30:40,296
Speaker 2: is it, Macalicious, funk, flave. And the same God to

477
00:30:40,336 --> 00:30:44,196
Speaker 2: be seriously into God. I miss him, man.

478
00:30:44,556 --> 00:30:47,096
Speaker 1: Yeah. When's the last time, did you keep in touch

479
00:30:47,116 --> 00:30:48,036
Speaker 1: with him over the years?

480
00:30:48,796 --> 00:30:50,836
Speaker 2: One of the last times I talked to Craig, I

481
00:30:50,856 --> 00:30:55,636
Speaker 2: gave him a huge batch of beats. And I never

482
00:30:55,676 --> 00:30:57,496
Speaker 2: heard from him again. And then I found out they

483
00:30:57,516 --> 00:31:02,856
Speaker 2: were on an album that was being sold overseas. I said, okay,

484
00:31:02,896 --> 00:31:07,536
Speaker 2: he did me like that. All right. My man, my man, Yang,

485
00:31:07,696 --> 00:31:10,766
Speaker 2: Big Yang had to, alert me to that. He said, yo,

486
00:31:10,806 --> 00:31:14,086
Speaker 2: you know, Craig got the album with all them beats

487
00:31:14,106 --> 00:31:17,296
Speaker 2: you give him. He said, he's selling it overseas. He

488
00:31:17,316 --> 00:31:20,276
Speaker 2: didn't say where, if it was like in England or

489
00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:28,996
Speaker 2: France or whatever. I was like, for real? Craig was crazy.

490
00:31:29,636 --> 00:31:32,906
Speaker 1: When things like that happen, do you just take it

491
00:31:32,926 --> 00:31:36,466
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt? Do you have the inkling

492
00:31:36,486 --> 00:31:38,746
Speaker 1: to like, Like, yo, man, I got to go handle

493
00:31:38,786 --> 00:31:40,746
Speaker 1: business and go talk to Craig.

494
00:31:41,146 --> 00:31:42,866
Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you. I didn't think it was

495
00:31:42,886 --> 00:31:44,026
Speaker 2: going to really do that much.

496
00:31:44,346 --> 00:31:44,646
Speaker 1: Okay.

497
00:31:45,306 --> 00:31:50,226
Speaker 2: Because a lot of his biggest successes came from record,

498
00:31:50,506 --> 00:31:53,326
Speaker 2: the major record labels and the machine behind him.

499
00:31:53,446 --> 00:31:54,506
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

500
00:31:54,726 --> 00:32:00,896
Speaker 2: And a couple of those records are classic staples. He

501
00:32:00,936 --> 00:32:04,956
Speaker 2: had one called The Wooden Horse. And then he remade

502
00:32:05,096 --> 00:32:09,456
Speaker 2: EPMD's Please Listen to My Demo. He made a remix

503
00:32:09,526 --> 00:32:12,636
Speaker 2: of that and changed the lyrics. And then the other

504
00:32:12,716 --> 00:32:14,836
Speaker 2: ones on there were from some of the beats that

505
00:32:14,896 --> 00:32:18,996
Speaker 2: I had gave him, a joint called Mack Coming Through

506
00:32:19,016 --> 00:32:22,856
Speaker 2: or Mack Come Through. It's like, yo, this dude is crazy, man.

507
00:32:23,196 --> 00:32:26,556
Speaker 2: Just took my beats and put an album out overseas.

508
00:32:28,826 --> 00:32:31,266
Speaker 2: God rest his soul, man. He went through a lot

509
00:32:31,466 --> 00:32:34,606
Speaker 2: before he left here. Yeah. Yeah.

510
00:32:35,156 --> 00:32:38,836
Speaker 1: It was a sad way to go, man. And biz too. Yeah.

511
00:32:39,176 --> 00:32:40,176
Speaker 1: And biz too, man.

512
00:32:40,496 --> 00:32:44,736
Speaker 2: Yeah. On that note, as we get older, a lot

513
00:32:44,776 --> 00:32:46,996
Speaker 2: of us in hip hop, and especially because we're in

514
00:32:47,036 --> 00:32:50,046
Speaker 2: hip hop, and we came up in this thing, what

515
00:32:50,066 --> 00:32:54,246
Speaker 2: they always called a young man sport. A lot of us,

516
00:32:54,326 --> 00:32:56,546
Speaker 2: as we're getting older, we have to stop being in

517
00:32:56,586 --> 00:33:01,836
Speaker 2: denial of and be concerned about health. There's a lot

518
00:33:01,876 --> 00:33:06,196
Speaker 2: of us that are ignoring our health. And because of that,

519
00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:11,616
Speaker 2: we're losing so many people a lot earlier than we're

520
00:33:11,956 --> 00:33:13,056
Speaker 2: supposed to. Yeah.

521
00:33:13,916 --> 00:33:19,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm always happy when I see people like, I

522
00:33:19,856 --> 00:33:23,696
Speaker 1: feel like Nas is like a pretty good example of

523
00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:25,936
Speaker 1: someone who's setting the tone. He's setting the standard of.

524
00:33:28,066 --> 00:33:30,806
Speaker 1: seemingly healthy, and also trying to help other people.

525
00:33:32,286 --> 00:33:36,176
Speaker 2: It just ran through my mind, in particular, shout to A.B. Money,

526
00:33:36,306 --> 00:33:39,676
Speaker 2: one third of the group rapping is fundamental I was in,

527
00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:47,716
Speaker 2: and also Styles P. For starting stores that sell mental

528
00:33:47,776 --> 00:33:53,406
Speaker 2: wellness products, from herbs and spices to just things that

529
00:33:53,426 --> 00:33:57,276
Speaker 2: just help you take care of yourself. The older that

530
00:33:57,396 --> 00:34:02,776
Speaker 2: we get, it's just so important to be healthy. Yeah.

531
00:34:04,446 --> 00:34:08,266
Speaker 2: Making the music and the music itself is important, but

532
00:34:08,926 --> 00:34:10,166
Speaker 2: you ain't going to be able to enjoy it if

533
00:34:10,206 --> 00:34:11,546
Speaker 2: you're not here. That's right.

534
00:34:11,566 --> 00:34:14,306
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's right. Yeah. How long after you

535
00:34:14,346 --> 00:34:15,686
Speaker 1: met Craig Mack did you meet Big?

536
00:34:16,426 --> 00:34:20,556
Speaker 2: I worked with Craig Mack at Bad Boy before Biggie.

537
00:34:20,836 --> 00:34:24,716
Speaker 2: Or rather, no, no. I worked with Biggie first.

538
00:34:24,916 --> 00:34:25,296
Speaker 1: First?

539
00:34:25,556 --> 00:34:31,046
Speaker 2: First. It all started with a call, my manager at

540
00:34:31,106 --> 00:34:34,516
Speaker 2: the time, Francesca Sparrow, telling me, I want you to

541
00:34:34,546 --> 00:34:37,776
Speaker 2: go up and see Andre. She was talking about Andre Harrell.

542
00:34:38,256 --> 00:34:41,076
Speaker 2: He's gone too. She said, I want you to go

543
00:34:41,116 --> 00:34:46,876
Speaker 2: up at Uptown MCA and take a meeting with Andre.

544
00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:50,826
Speaker 2: He's got a new artist that they want to put

545
00:34:50,946 --> 00:34:53,926
Speaker 2: on the soundtrack to this movie, Who's the Man? And

546
00:34:54,606 --> 00:34:56,106
Speaker 2: they want to hear a couple of tracks. They need

547
00:34:56,146 --> 00:34:58,786
Speaker 2: a track for him. And originally it was just supposed

548
00:34:58,826 --> 00:35:02,826
Speaker 2: to be one track for this new artist at the time.

549
00:35:02,886 --> 00:35:06,146
Speaker 2: He was called Biggie Smalls. Then he had to change

550
00:35:06,186 --> 00:35:10,366
Speaker 2: the name because another artist had the same name. And

551
00:35:10,426 --> 00:35:14,406
Speaker 2: Sean Puffy Combs liked the chemistry that the two of

552
00:35:14,466 --> 00:35:18,066
Speaker 2: us had on that first record that I did with Biggie,

553
00:35:18,606 --> 00:35:25,206
Speaker 2: Party and Bush. And she told me that he actually

554
00:35:25,266 --> 00:35:28,896
Speaker 2: called back over to the, He said, yo, thanks for

555
00:35:29,276 --> 00:35:32,316
Speaker 2: hooking me up with that. That Mo B guy. I said, yo,

556
00:35:32,496 --> 00:35:36,806
Speaker 2: I like the chemistry. What's going on? Let's keep it going.

557
00:35:37,486 --> 00:35:43,466
Speaker 2: And right there, this is before Bad Boy Arista. Because

558
00:35:43,526 --> 00:35:46,176
Speaker 2: Biggie was supposed to come out on Uptown Records.

559
00:35:46,856 --> 00:35:47,116
Speaker 1: Right.

560
00:35:48,656 --> 00:35:53,936
Speaker 2: After Party and Bullsh, we started recording for the album

561
00:35:53,976 --> 00:35:56,816
Speaker 2: Ready to Die. Nobody Knows But Ready To Die was

562
00:35:56,836 --> 00:36:02,916
Speaker 2: supposed to come out on Uptown MCA Records. Andre Harrell's label,

563
00:36:03,336 --> 00:36:08,436
Speaker 2: which had Heavy D, Barry J. Blige, Jodeci, Lil Sean.

564
00:36:10,016 --> 00:36:14,336
Speaker 2: Later on, artists like Soul For Real. Not Faith Evans.

565
00:36:14,476 --> 00:36:19,876
Speaker 2: She came later on Bad Boy. And then Andre Harrell

566
00:36:19,976 --> 00:36:28,046
Speaker 2: and Sean Puffy Combs started to differ. You got fired, right? Yeah,

567
00:36:28,086 --> 00:36:29,886
Speaker 2: if you want to call it that. That's why I

568
00:36:29,926 --> 00:36:35,106
Speaker 2: just said differed. Sorry. I want to be right and

569
00:36:35,166 --> 00:36:38,046
Speaker 2: exact about what I said. I wasn't there. I don't

570
00:36:38,086 --> 00:36:41,326
Speaker 2: know exactly what and how it happened. So I just

571
00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:45,786
Speaker 2: say they differed. And that's when Puff went and started

572
00:36:45,926 --> 00:36:52,216
Speaker 2: his Bad Boy label under Arista. And Flavor In Your

573
00:36:52,316 --> 00:36:56,316
Speaker 2: Ear ended up being the first single. And I had

574
00:36:56,336 --> 00:36:59,096
Speaker 2: to toot my own horn a little bit. The first

575
00:36:59,196 --> 00:37:06,106
Speaker 2: single stayed number one at 16 weeks. Crazy. Yeah. Crazy.

576
00:37:06,186 --> 00:37:09,146
Speaker 2: On the Hot New Hip Hop Chart. I think that's

577
00:37:09,166 --> 00:37:12,246
Speaker 2: what it was called back then. So technically I gave

578
00:37:13,166 --> 00:37:18,316
Speaker 2: Puff his first hit. Crazy. I opened up the floodgates

579
00:37:18,336 --> 00:37:21,816
Speaker 2: for him on his label. I gave him his first hit.

580
00:37:23,656 --> 00:37:28,036
Speaker 1: And... Did that create a positive working relationship at that

581
00:37:28,076 --> 00:37:28,656
Speaker 1: point or?

582
00:37:28,676 --> 00:37:34,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, it did until he added his name to the

583
00:37:34,516 --> 00:37:38,516
Speaker 2: Flavor in the Air remix. And I confronted him about it.

584
00:37:38,686 --> 00:37:41,066
Speaker 2: And ever since then, we were never the same.

585
00:37:41,646 --> 00:37:43,906
Speaker 1: What did you think of him? Because he's on the remix.

586
00:37:43,926 --> 00:37:45,106
Speaker 1: His voice is on the remix now that I'm thinking

587
00:37:45,126 --> 00:37:48,226
Speaker 1: about it, right? How did he get... Were you around

588
00:37:48,246 --> 00:37:48,826
Speaker 1: when that happened?

589
00:37:50,046 --> 00:37:53,206
Speaker 2: Well, I remember being at a studio called Sound on Sound.

590
00:37:53,426 --> 00:37:56,736
Speaker 2: And I remember I was sitting... high on top of this. No,

591
00:37:57,046 --> 00:38:00,806
Speaker 2: I was down working low and Chucky Thompson was sitting

592
00:38:01,366 --> 00:38:07,426
Speaker 2: high atop this file cabinet. And he was just sitting

593
00:38:07,486 --> 00:38:10,706
Speaker 2: over me swinging his legs while I was reprogramming because

594
00:38:10,746 --> 00:38:13,546
Speaker 2: the idea was to make the track sound a little

595
00:38:13,626 --> 00:38:19,216
Speaker 2: different from the original. It was Puff's idea already to

596
00:38:19,436 --> 00:38:25,816
Speaker 2: add the extra MCs to the record, Busta Rhymes, Rampage,

597
00:38:26,576 --> 00:38:30,916
Speaker 2: LL Cool J. And for me, I just wanted to

598
00:38:31,676 --> 00:38:33,696
Speaker 2: tweak the track a little bit to make it sound

599
00:38:33,716 --> 00:38:36,586
Speaker 2: a little bit different. That's where you hear like a

600
00:38:36,606 --> 00:38:41,086
Speaker 2: little bit of Rhodes keyboard and some guitar stabs that

601
00:38:41,506 --> 00:38:44,906
Speaker 2: weren't in the original. But when the record came out,

602
00:38:46,506 --> 00:38:53,796
Speaker 2: I saw it said, produced by In This Order. Sean

603
00:38:53,836 --> 00:38:59,156
Speaker 2: Puffy Combs, Chucky Thompson, and me. So I was just

604
00:38:59,196 --> 00:39:01,956
Speaker 2: curious about that. I went up to the label to

605
00:39:02,076 --> 00:39:04,956
Speaker 2: ask them about it. And I don't know. It just

606
00:39:04,976 --> 00:39:06,956
Speaker 2: seemed like after that, we were never the same. I

607
00:39:07,016 --> 00:39:10,496
Speaker 2: noticed I didn't really work over there too much. And

608
00:39:10,996 --> 00:39:14,546
Speaker 2: when I had six songs, which a lot of people

609
00:39:14,626 --> 00:39:17,746
Speaker 2: considered like the lion's share of Ready to Die on

610
00:39:17,766 --> 00:39:20,546
Speaker 2: the second album, I only played a smaller role with

611
00:39:20,586 --> 00:39:24,946
Speaker 2: two tracks. Right. I loved the Doe featuring Angela Wimbush

612
00:39:25,326 --> 00:39:27,876
Speaker 2: and Jay-Z and going back to Cali.

613
00:39:28,936 --> 00:39:32,216
Speaker 1: Great contributions. Yeah. Great contributions.

614
00:39:32,256 --> 00:39:36,136
Speaker 2: And that album, he was taking a different direction with Biggie.

615
00:39:37,056 --> 00:39:41,016
Speaker 2: First album was more gritty. So the second album was

616
00:39:41,616 --> 00:39:45,436
Speaker 2: a bit more shiny, a bit more commercial at times.

617
00:39:45,716 --> 00:39:45,996
Speaker 1: Yeah.

618
00:39:46,416 --> 00:39:49,116
Speaker 2: And so I tried to cater to that because I played,

619
00:39:49,296 --> 00:39:51,796
Speaker 2: and you won't believe this, but for Life After Death album,

620
00:39:52,436 --> 00:39:56,326
Speaker 2: I played him. I still have the cassette, by the way, somewhere.

621
00:39:57,376 --> 00:40:02,166
Speaker 2: I played him 80 beats. He turned all of them down.

622
00:40:02,906 --> 00:40:05,246
Speaker 2: He was like, no, we're taking a different direction on

623
00:40:05,286 --> 00:40:09,466
Speaker 2: this album. So at the end, the tail end of

624
00:40:09,546 --> 00:40:13,986
Speaker 2: Ready to Die, I remember I offered him, the beat

625
00:40:14,066 --> 00:40:17,336
Speaker 2: wasn't even made. I said, I love you more, Rene

626
00:40:17,376 --> 00:40:21,816
Speaker 2: and Angela. I said, I did all this rough and

627
00:40:21,856 --> 00:40:24,536
Speaker 2: grimy stuff. We just do a joint like that, like

628
00:40:24,576 --> 00:40:28,706
Speaker 2: a good radio joint. He turned it down. So now

629
00:40:28,746 --> 00:40:32,086
Speaker 2: that this was finally the direction he was taking, I

630
00:40:32,126 --> 00:40:35,556
Speaker 2: came back and I said, so what about that? I

631
00:40:35,596 --> 00:40:37,896
Speaker 2: love you more, Rene and Angela. And I remember him

632
00:40:37,956 --> 00:40:41,516
Speaker 2: just saying, we'll hook it up then. And so I

633
00:40:41,556 --> 00:40:45,906
Speaker 2: hooked that one up. And then going back to Cali

634
00:40:46,386 --> 00:40:50,446
Speaker 2: was the second. So my two tracks on the second album,

635
00:40:50,506 --> 00:40:54,936
Speaker 2: Life After Death, they were a little bit shinier. than

636
00:40:54,976 --> 00:40:57,016
Speaker 2: the ones on Ready to Die.

637
00:40:57,396 --> 00:40:58,596
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't ready for that sound.

638
00:40:58,936 --> 00:41:02,606
Speaker 2: And then More Bounce to the Ounce by Zap. That

639
00:41:02,646 --> 00:41:10,726
Speaker 2: sample was my idea for going back to Cali. I

640
00:41:10,746 --> 00:41:15,806
Speaker 2: did some special research in doing, making, going back to

641
00:41:15,846 --> 00:41:18,886
Speaker 2: Cali because at that time you had the East-West thing

642
00:41:18,966 --> 00:41:23,456
Speaker 2: was going on, a lot of friction. And what I

643
00:41:23,496 --> 00:41:27,796
Speaker 2: wanted to do, I wanted to try to get everybody,

644
00:41:28,036 --> 00:41:35,006
Speaker 2: if I could, on one accord, musically. I found out

645
00:41:35,366 --> 00:41:37,826
Speaker 2: from a manager that I had back at that time that,

646
00:41:38,766 --> 00:41:42,286
Speaker 2: because I asked him, I said, you're in L.A., what

647
00:41:42,346 --> 00:41:47,836
Speaker 2: is that record at the house parties that joint that L.A.

648
00:41:47,876 --> 00:41:51,296
Speaker 2: And he said, man, More Bounce. He was talking about

649
00:41:51,316 --> 00:41:54,996
Speaker 2: More Bounce to the Ounce by Zap. So I need

650
00:41:55,016 --> 00:41:57,556
Speaker 2: to do something with that. Here's the two me's talking

651
00:41:57,576 --> 00:42:00,716
Speaker 2: to each other again. Then the other me said, yo,

652
00:42:02,096 --> 00:42:06,566
Speaker 2: bad people already use more bounce. You know, No Future

653
00:42:06,586 --> 00:42:09,926
Speaker 2: and Your Front and MC Breed. And of course, the

654
00:42:09,986 --> 00:42:14,806
Speaker 2: original time that it got used, first time it got used,

655
00:42:14,946 --> 00:42:19,666
Speaker 2: EPMD's issue, not issue, You Gots to Chill.

656
00:42:20,296 --> 00:42:21,096
Speaker 1: Oh, right. EPMD.

657
00:42:21,136 --> 00:42:22,056
Speaker 2: That was the first time.

658
00:42:22,416 --> 00:42:22,596
Speaker 1: Wow.

659
00:42:23,546 --> 00:42:29,396
Speaker 2: But so many people sampled that record. The other me said, yo,

660
00:42:29,416 --> 00:42:32,276
Speaker 2: but so many people already used that sample, that record.

661
00:42:33,236 --> 00:42:35,296
Speaker 2: And then I said, yeah, but I'm going to use

662
00:42:35,356 --> 00:42:38,976
Speaker 2: it like nobody's ever used it. Here we go back

663
00:42:39,016 --> 00:42:41,676
Speaker 2: to the chopping style. I chopped it, diced it up

664
00:42:41,936 --> 00:42:44,256
Speaker 2: in so many pieces to the point where people thought

665
00:42:44,276 --> 00:42:46,476
Speaker 2: that I actually had the masters.

666
00:42:46,956 --> 00:42:49,636
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It sounds inspired by, but it don't sound

667
00:42:49,696 --> 00:42:50,356
Speaker 1: at all like.

668
00:42:50,916 --> 00:42:56,426
Speaker 2: Because... I had the track is moving the same way

669
00:42:56,546 --> 00:43:01,506
Speaker 2: as the original, but the bass line is juxtaposed. It's

670
00:43:01,586 --> 00:43:04,866
Speaker 2: in places it's not supposed to be playing different notes

671
00:43:04,906 --> 00:43:07,106
Speaker 2: that it's not supposed to be, but yet the track

672
00:43:07,186 --> 00:43:10,976
Speaker 2: is moving at the same time. Then I did the

673
00:43:11,016 --> 00:43:19,676
Speaker 2: layers with the Rhodes keyboard on top and that stuff

674
00:43:19,716 --> 00:43:20,096
Speaker 2: like that.

675
00:43:22,886 --> 00:43:25,226
Speaker 1: And were you with Big when he put his verse down?

676
00:43:25,256 --> 00:43:25,436
Speaker 2: No.

677
00:43:25,706 --> 00:43:28,316
Speaker 1: No. So you just handed it in. It was just

678
00:43:28,396 --> 00:43:30,536
Speaker 1: an idea that I had. And not sure what would

679
00:43:30,576 --> 00:43:31,146
Speaker 1: happen with it.

680
00:43:31,676 --> 00:43:33,776
Speaker 2: And he didn't even know, but what I was trying

681
00:43:33,796 --> 00:43:36,516
Speaker 2: to create, like I said, was something that could get

682
00:43:37,756 --> 00:43:42,826
Speaker 2: both sides on one musical accord. In other words, we

683
00:43:42,866 --> 00:43:46,146
Speaker 2: got this beef thing going on, but how about I

684
00:43:46,186 --> 00:43:48,846
Speaker 2: bring everybody in the middle, and regardless of what side

685
00:43:48,866 --> 00:43:50,706
Speaker 2: you're on, get everybody like this.

686
00:43:51,256 --> 00:43:51,436
Speaker 1: Yeah.

687
00:43:52,366 --> 00:43:55,266
Speaker 2: I had to come out here in Cali for something

688
00:43:55,306 --> 00:43:59,166
Speaker 2: during that time. This is after I created and submitted

689
00:43:59,206 --> 00:44:02,506
Speaker 2: the track. You know when you come off the plane,

690
00:44:03,206 --> 00:44:07,746
Speaker 2: those drivers, they're holding up that sign. They had my sign, Harvey.

691
00:44:07,806 --> 00:44:09,826
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah. He took me to the car, put

692
00:44:09,866 --> 00:44:12,186
Speaker 2: my bags in there, so I get in his car.

693
00:44:12,646 --> 00:44:15,866
Speaker 2: Like those Lincoln cars back then. Now we're dealing with Ubers,

694
00:44:15,926 --> 00:44:19,006
Speaker 2: but used to have a Lincoln thing. pick you up

695
00:44:19,046 --> 00:44:20,866
Speaker 2: back then so I get in the back seat he

696
00:44:20,906 --> 00:44:25,266
Speaker 2: got my luggage in the trunk he had the radio

697
00:44:25,386 --> 00:44:30,356
Speaker 2: on not right away but we driving to my hotel

698
00:44:31,376 --> 00:44:34,996
Speaker 2: and going back to Cali comes on the radio out

699
00:44:35,076 --> 00:44:38,216
Speaker 2: here in LA and I'm sitting in the back seat

700
00:44:38,296 --> 00:44:40,196
Speaker 2: like he don't know he's driving I was just like

701
00:44:40,256 --> 00:44:44,566
Speaker 2: smiling to myself I said yo you did it because

702
00:44:45,406 --> 00:44:53,846
Speaker 2: if LA wasn't receptive to To that record, especially because

703
00:44:54,606 --> 00:44:57,296
Speaker 2: Biggie did the song, then they would not have played

704
00:44:57,336 --> 00:45:04,216
Speaker 2: it at all. But you know the saying, man, music

705
00:45:04,936 --> 00:45:11,506
Speaker 2: overpowers and conquers all. If music is good, people are

706
00:45:11,526 --> 00:45:14,866
Speaker 2: going to love it regardless. And I felt good about that,

707
00:45:14,886 --> 00:45:18,636
Speaker 2: that I gained the confidence of L.A. And of course,

708
00:45:18,736 --> 00:45:19,786
Speaker 2: New York was playing it.

709
00:45:20,016 --> 00:45:20,216
Speaker 1: Yeah.

710
00:45:20,516 --> 00:45:25,376
Speaker 2: So you got this conflict going on. But yet, in

711
00:45:25,416 --> 00:45:27,706
Speaker 2: the middle, the music meant more.

712
00:45:27,926 --> 00:45:28,146
Speaker 1: Yeah.

713
00:45:28,206 --> 00:45:30,826
Speaker 2: And had everybody like this. And I felt so happy.

714
00:45:30,886 --> 00:45:34,346
Speaker 2: I was like, yo, you did it, man. Just to

715
00:45:34,366 --> 00:45:37,246
Speaker 2: try to bring some kind of peace. Yeah. If anything,

716
00:45:37,366 --> 00:45:39,326
Speaker 2: if even just a little at all.

717
00:45:39,446 --> 00:45:39,686
Speaker 1: Yeah.

718
00:45:39,906 --> 00:45:42,346
Speaker 2: Just to get everybody on one accord.

719
00:45:42,446 --> 00:45:45,556
Speaker 1: Yeah. Were you out here when Big... Died?

720
00:45:46,036 --> 00:45:46,736
Speaker 2: No, no.

721
00:45:46,856 --> 00:45:47,516
Speaker 1: You were in New York.

722
00:45:47,856 --> 00:45:50,516
Speaker 2: I was in, uh, New York. I remember I stopped

723
00:45:50,696 --> 00:45:56,416
Speaker 2: at the corner store on the corner in Brooklyn of

724
00:45:56,576 --> 00:46:02,526
Speaker 2: Washington and Fulton street. That strip right there between, uh,

725
00:46:03,566 --> 00:46:07,906
Speaker 2: Fulton street between Washington and St. James is where him

726
00:46:07,946 --> 00:46:10,426
Speaker 2: and junior mafia, they used to stand out on the block.

727
00:46:10,466 --> 00:46:14,806
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to just say doing what they do. Um,

728
00:46:15,496 --> 00:46:18,176
Speaker 2: But I stopped in that store on the corner, and

729
00:46:18,196 --> 00:46:22,676
Speaker 2: I ran into, what was his name? He was one

730
00:46:22,716 --> 00:46:26,586
Speaker 2: of the, Blake, Blake C., one of the members of

731
00:46:26,626 --> 00:46:30,266
Speaker 2: Junior Mafia. So I'm already in the store. He comes

732
00:46:30,326 --> 00:46:33,166
Speaker 2: busting through the door. He sees me. Yo, Mo, what up, man?

733
00:46:33,186 --> 00:46:37,426
Speaker 2: I said, what's going on? He said, yo, I was

734
00:46:37,506 --> 00:46:38,926
Speaker 2: out there with Big and them, and I had to

735
00:46:39,006 --> 00:46:41,706
Speaker 2: come back. He said, yo, they're out there balling, having

736
00:46:41,746 --> 00:46:44,226
Speaker 2: mad fun. And I'm thinking to myself, like, yo, in

737
00:46:44,246 --> 00:46:47,596
Speaker 2: the midst of all this conflict You're having so much fun,

738
00:46:47,656 --> 00:46:51,496
Speaker 2: and why would you even go out there? And I

739
00:46:51,536 --> 00:46:53,876
Speaker 2: bought what I bought, my juice or whatever, and I

740
00:46:53,916 --> 00:46:56,956
Speaker 2: went up in the house, played some music late until

741
00:46:56,976 --> 00:47:00,066
Speaker 2: maybe about 2 o'clock in the morning, went to sleep,

742
00:47:00,406 --> 00:47:04,286
Speaker 2: and the next day when I woke up on TV

743
00:47:05,426 --> 00:47:09,846
Speaker 2: was the news that Big E had just got killed. So, no,

744
00:47:09,906 --> 00:47:13,416
Speaker 2: I wasn't out in L.A. at that time. During that time,

745
00:47:13,936 --> 00:47:18,036
Speaker 2: before and after, I was still Coming back and forth

746
00:47:18,796 --> 00:47:24,676
Speaker 2: out here because you had the Alcoholics, Liquidation album. I

747
00:47:24,696 --> 00:47:29,296
Speaker 2: did a remix for MC8' s Is It Get On The Floor?

748
00:47:30,166 --> 00:47:35,786
Speaker 2: Rage on her album Necessary Roughness. I did that title

749
00:47:35,846 --> 00:47:38,646
Speaker 2: track and another song called The Breakdown.

750
00:47:38,806 --> 00:47:39,026
Speaker 1: Yeah.

751
00:47:40,746 --> 00:47:44,046
Speaker 2: I'm producing Lady of Rage on Death Row.

752
00:47:44,406 --> 00:47:46,096
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

753
00:47:46,716 --> 00:47:50,156
Speaker 2: Hey, listen, whatever was going on, I made sure that

754
00:47:50,196 --> 00:47:53,636
Speaker 2: I never, ever wanted to be a part of that.

755
00:47:53,916 --> 00:47:54,136
Speaker 1: Yeah.

756
00:47:54,536 --> 00:48:00,176
Speaker 2: Always considered myself to be a businessman. Do the work. Yeah.

757
00:48:00,596 --> 00:48:04,136
Speaker 2: Do it well and go home. Conflicts and stuff like that,

758
00:48:04,196 --> 00:48:08,246
Speaker 2: don't get involved with that. I never, ever wanted to

759
00:48:08,286 --> 00:48:10,146
Speaker 2: be a part of that, and I didn't want to

760
00:48:11,046 --> 00:48:13,896
Speaker 2: threaten my ability to continue to be able to come

761
00:48:13,936 --> 00:48:15,196
Speaker 2: out here and work with artists.

762
00:48:18,696 --> 00:48:26,536
Speaker 1: Before the conflict happened, were you listening to music coming

763
00:48:26,556 --> 00:48:28,936
Speaker 1: from here, like N.W.A.? Absolutely.

764
00:48:28,956 --> 00:48:34,506
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, L.A. is a funk town, heavy

765
00:48:34,606 --> 00:48:39,756
Speaker 2: on the funk history. Earlier, I just spoke about Zap,

766
00:48:40,276 --> 00:48:46,756
Speaker 2: anything funky. Zap, Cameo, of course, Parliament, Funkadelic, all things

767
00:48:46,856 --> 00:48:52,216
Speaker 2: George Clinton, Confunction. You get what I'm saying. LA is

768
00:48:52,316 --> 00:48:56,156
Speaker 2: a heavy funk town. And that music was always all

769
00:48:56,196 --> 00:48:58,676
Speaker 2: right with me because all those albums, I have all

770
00:48:58,716 --> 00:49:01,556
Speaker 2: those albums. I listen to that. Funk is a big

771
00:49:01,616 --> 00:49:05,736
Speaker 2: part of my music, musical palette, the things I enjoyed.

772
00:49:06,056 --> 00:49:10,176
Speaker 2: The records I bought coming up in my time. So, yeah.

773
00:49:11,536 --> 00:49:13,596
Speaker 2: I love music, period. I don't care what coast it

774
00:49:13,616 --> 00:49:14,036
Speaker 2: come from.

775
00:49:14,196 --> 00:49:14,436
Speaker 1: Yeah.

776
00:49:15,256 --> 00:49:18,846
Speaker 2: And my ability to come out here and work with

777
00:49:18,906 --> 00:49:21,766
Speaker 2: other artists, I didn't want to be threatened with that.

778
00:49:22,806 --> 00:49:23,126
Speaker 2: You know?

779
00:49:23,846 --> 00:49:27,846
Speaker 1: Take me back to Thug Life Volume 1.

780
00:49:27,846 --> 00:49:30,856
Speaker 2: Straight ballin'. Straight ballin'. I only got one song on

781
00:49:30,896 --> 00:49:31,376
Speaker 2: that album.

782
00:49:32,556 --> 00:49:33,636
Speaker 1: What's one of the best ones?

783
00:49:34,576 --> 00:49:37,316
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting the way Pac recorded with me.

784
00:49:37,396 --> 00:49:39,126
Speaker 2: First of all, he was in New York and he

785
00:49:39,166 --> 00:49:44,326
Speaker 2: was filming above the rim at the time. And this

786
00:49:44,846 --> 00:49:47,646
Speaker 2: particular part of the movie, he was filming at the

787
00:49:47,766 --> 00:49:53,046
Speaker 2: Rutgers Playground. You know all those basketball scenes? Yeah. That

788
00:49:53,086 --> 00:49:56,646
Speaker 2: was shot in Harlem across the street from Polo Grounds

789
00:49:57,166 --> 00:50:03,646
Speaker 2: Projects at the renowned Ruckus Park. When I met him,

790
00:50:03,686 --> 00:50:09,026
Speaker 2: he said, I'm filming a movie. If you want, I

791
00:50:09,066 --> 00:50:12,106
Speaker 2: get breaks. Come on the set and play me some stuff.

792
00:50:13,186 --> 00:50:15,456
Speaker 2: By the time we went to the studio, we recorded

793
00:50:15,476 --> 00:50:19,196
Speaker 2: this big batch of songs. But I like what he did.

794
00:50:20,626 --> 00:50:23,346
Speaker 2: He didn't take all those songs and put them on

795
00:50:23,466 --> 00:50:28,426
Speaker 2: one album. If I Die Tonight and Temptations, he threw

796
00:50:28,446 --> 00:50:32,376
Speaker 2: that on Me Against the World. When I did Running

797
00:50:32,396 --> 00:50:37,936
Speaker 2: From the Police, which later became Running, Dying to Live,

798
00:50:38,296 --> 00:50:41,916
Speaker 2: the Eminem remix. The original to that has never, ever

799
00:50:41,936 --> 00:50:44,036
Speaker 2: seen the light of day. But he took that and

800
00:50:44,096 --> 00:50:48,286
Speaker 2: put that on the One Million Man March album. What

801
00:50:48,306 --> 00:50:54,416
Speaker 2: was it called? What's it called? Nation something. That title

802
00:50:54,496 --> 00:50:58,576
Speaker 2: is slipping me. But the album was dedicated at the

803
00:50:58,616 --> 00:51:00,196
Speaker 2: time to the One Million March.

804
00:51:00,516 --> 00:51:01,256
Speaker 1: One Million Strong.

805
00:51:01,616 --> 00:51:04,696
Speaker 2: One Million Strong. That was the name of it. Then

806
00:51:04,716 --> 00:51:07,166
Speaker 2: he took the Straight Ballin' that we just spoke of,

807
00:51:07,646 --> 00:51:11,806
Speaker 2: and he put that on the Thug Life album. Also

808
00:51:11,886 --> 00:51:15,396
Speaker 2: even pulled in my brother, LG, to work with him.

809
00:51:16,106 --> 00:51:20,146
Speaker 2: So LG produced Out On Bail. And to this day,

810
00:51:20,166 --> 00:51:24,306
Speaker 2: there's so many remixes of that song versus the original.

811
00:51:25,366 --> 00:51:28,006
Speaker 2: Then I did another joint with him called My Block.

812
00:51:28,046 --> 00:51:32,886
Speaker 2: He took that and put that on the show soundtrack. Wow.

813
00:51:34,426 --> 00:51:34,726
Speaker 1: Yeah.

814
00:51:36,066 --> 00:51:41,036
Speaker 2: So you got to think how smart as a strategy

815
00:51:41,076 --> 00:51:43,876
Speaker 2: that was. He could have took all those songs, put

816
00:51:43,896 --> 00:51:47,576
Speaker 2: them on one album, but he dispersed them to different albums.

817
00:51:48,226 --> 00:51:49,366
Speaker 2: I thought that was so smart.

818
00:51:49,966 --> 00:51:52,846
Speaker 1: It was wild. Mm-hmm. It's a wild idea. I mean,

819
00:51:53,506 --> 00:51:56,246
Speaker 1: and he just was working so much. There's so many projects,

820
00:51:56,326 --> 00:51:56,726
Speaker 1: I guess.

821
00:51:56,886 --> 00:52:04,516
Speaker 2: I always compared that to like how RZA took his artist, ODB,

822
00:52:04,636 --> 00:52:11,156
Speaker 2: Ghost Star Electra. Yeah. Raekwon stayed on Loud, which is

823
00:52:11,236 --> 00:52:17,646
Speaker 2: where Wu-Tang was. Ghostface put him on Epic. jizzle you

824
00:52:17,686 --> 00:52:21,516
Speaker 2: went to geffen same kind of strategy you know what

825
00:52:21,536 --> 00:52:23,656
Speaker 2: i mean instead of having all your eggs in one.

826
00:52:23,596 --> 00:52:26,856
Speaker 1: Basket yeah dispersed spread out.

827
00:52:27,236 --> 00:52:30,296
Speaker 2: And what happens is you end up competing with yourself

828
00:52:30,676 --> 00:52:34,096
Speaker 2: yeah these records are all coming out around the same

829
00:52:34,176 --> 00:52:38,396
Speaker 2: time and you're actually competing with yourself in different positions

830
00:52:38,966 --> 00:52:40,406
Speaker 2: on one same chart.

831
00:52:40,406 --> 00:52:42,306
Speaker 1: Were you aware of crazy were you aware of all

832
00:52:42,326 --> 00:52:43,926
Speaker 1: the various projects or were you just like this is

833
00:52:43,986 --> 00:52:46,066
Speaker 1: a session and wherever they go they go.

834
00:52:48,066 --> 00:52:50,296
Speaker 2: I didn't know he was going to place those songs

835
00:52:52,136 --> 00:52:54,236
Speaker 2: on different albums like he did. I had to find

836
00:52:54,376 --> 00:52:58,156
Speaker 2: out after they came out. I think the only two

837
00:52:58,176 --> 00:53:04,046
Speaker 2: that I actually knew about were the two Temptations featuring

838
00:53:04,086 --> 00:53:08,286
Speaker 2: Rapping is Fundamental, if nobody ever knew. Me, A.B. Money,

839
00:53:08,786 --> 00:53:12,006
Speaker 2: and J.R. That's my group, Rapping is Fundamental, that I

840
00:53:12,046 --> 00:53:16,076
Speaker 2: was in. That's us singing on the hook. I know

841
00:53:16,156 --> 00:53:21,156
Speaker 2: you've been searching for someone. And doing the harmony. Yeah,

842
00:53:21,176 --> 00:53:21,596
Speaker 2: that was us.

843
00:53:21,616 --> 00:53:24,396
Speaker 1: Get the job done. That's you guys?

844
00:53:24,636 --> 00:53:29,336
Speaker 2: Yeah. On Temptations, it just doesn't say featuring rapping is fundamental,

845
00:53:29,396 --> 00:53:32,796
Speaker 2: but that was us doing the bridge hook. Wow.

846
00:53:33,056 --> 00:53:38,516
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And even in the... Hey, that's rap.

847
00:53:38,616 --> 00:53:43,176
Speaker 2: That's A.B. Money singing on the hooks and the outros.

848
00:53:44,666 --> 00:53:45,226
Speaker 1: That's dope.

849
00:53:46,146 --> 00:53:51,846
Speaker 2: And all A.B. Money was doing was expounding on the

850
00:53:51,906 --> 00:53:56,526
Speaker 2: Watch Your Nuggets sample from the Redman record that I

851
00:53:56,566 --> 00:54:03,736
Speaker 2: had in there where Eric Sermon says, Hey, hey. So

852
00:54:03,756 --> 00:54:07,356
Speaker 2: when AB comes on top, he starts expounding on that like.

853
00:54:08,956 --> 00:54:11,776
Speaker 1: Eh, eh, eh.

854
00:54:11,816 --> 00:54:13,776
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's crazy how it came together.

855
00:54:13,936 --> 00:54:17,596
Speaker 1: That's wild, man. That's an amazing song. Amazing song.

856
00:54:17,696 --> 00:54:17,956
Speaker 2: Yeah.

857
00:54:18,216 --> 00:54:20,416
Speaker 1: Were you happy with how it all came, like with that,

858
00:54:20,706 --> 00:54:23,006
Speaker 1: when you listened to that album, were you happy with

859
00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:27,706
Speaker 1: how your songs fit into the bigger, the larger project?

860
00:54:28,466 --> 00:54:32,546
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was pleased that the way they

861
00:54:32,586 --> 00:54:36,676
Speaker 2: fit in with As a whole together inside the project.

862
00:54:36,796 --> 00:54:39,836
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It all sounds like other piece. It all

863
00:54:39,856 --> 00:54:41,696
Speaker 1: sounds like, you know what I mean?

864
00:54:41,856 --> 00:54:43,916
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he had a lot of different other producers

865
00:54:44,036 --> 00:54:44,316
Speaker 2: on there.

866
00:54:44,536 --> 00:54:44,756
Speaker 1: Yeah.

867
00:54:45,276 --> 00:54:49,716
Speaker 2: That's important. Sequencing. I mean, from the first to the

868
00:54:49,776 --> 00:54:54,996
Speaker 2: last as the tracks follow. Yeah. And meshing together the

869
00:54:55,096 --> 00:54:59,966
Speaker 2: different sounds of different producers all together on one album.

870
00:55:00,386 --> 00:55:01,166
Speaker 2: It has to flow.

871
00:55:02,006 --> 00:55:02,146
Speaker 1: Yeah.

872
00:55:02,166 --> 00:55:04,416
Speaker 2: Yeah. And maybe that's the reason why people like that

873
00:55:04,496 --> 00:55:09,316
Speaker 2: album so much. But when you talk about catering, like

874
00:55:09,356 --> 00:55:11,576
Speaker 2: I did with going back to Cali when I was

875
00:55:11,616 --> 00:55:15,616
Speaker 2: catering to the funk LA thing, I did the same

876
00:55:15,656 --> 00:55:17,286
Speaker 2: thing for Tupac. Wait, hold on.

877
00:55:17,296 --> 00:55:18,016
Speaker 1: So tell me about that.

878
00:55:18,596 --> 00:55:31,706
Speaker 2: So if you don't know... Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Boom.

879
00:55:31,986 --> 00:55:38,406
Speaker 2: That's a filter. I filtered Computer Love by Zap just

880
00:55:38,466 --> 00:55:44,876
Speaker 2: down to the bass and low frequencies. Wow. Added the

881
00:55:44,916 --> 00:55:59,226
Speaker 2: drums and on top added my chords, I call them. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

882
00:56:00,236 --> 00:56:02,826
Speaker 1: That's a wild use of zap.

883
00:56:03,186 --> 00:56:06,846
Speaker 2: So the only purpose that Computer Love serves on that

884
00:56:06,926 --> 00:56:11,026
Speaker 2: record is just for the bass. I think you know

885
00:56:11,066 --> 00:56:15,746
Speaker 2: you can filter records. DJs do that live. Yeah. Lots

886
00:56:15,826 --> 00:56:19,406
Speaker 2: of times you hear that. They'll filter a song, just

887
00:56:19,586 --> 00:56:22,906
Speaker 2: muffle it down to just bass. And a lot of

888
00:56:23,186 --> 00:56:26,306
Speaker 2: the producers in the 90s used to do a lot

889
00:56:26,366 --> 00:56:31,146
Speaker 2: of that. Pete Rock, Large Professor, me, so many others. people.

890
00:56:32,086 --> 00:56:36,596
Speaker 2: And so I always loved that bass line. But on

891
00:56:36,656 --> 00:56:41,236
Speaker 2: the section that I sampled it from, there's no instrumental

892
00:56:41,296 --> 00:56:46,816
Speaker 2: passage on Computer Love. Like an open instrumental spot. So

893
00:56:46,836 --> 00:56:50,336
Speaker 2: I said, dang, I want to use the record. But

894
00:56:50,376 --> 00:56:54,886
Speaker 2: they're singing everywhere. So I said, filter the song down

895
00:56:54,926 --> 00:56:59,086
Speaker 2: to just the low frequencies and build some new music

896
00:56:59,646 --> 00:57:07,676
Speaker 2: around And that's where I came up with the, and

897
00:57:07,716 --> 00:57:10,176
Speaker 2: all the other things that surrounded the track.

898
00:57:10,436 --> 00:57:12,596
Speaker 1: When you say it, I can hear it now, but

899
00:57:12,616 --> 00:57:14,476
Speaker 1: you just don't associate, but the same way like going

900
00:57:14,496 --> 00:57:16,416
Speaker 1: back to Cali, you don't even really associate going back

901
00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:18,956
Speaker 1: to Cali with Zap a hundred percent. You don't associate

902
00:57:18,976 --> 00:57:22,896
Speaker 1: it with more bounce. You know, it sounds like.

903
00:57:23,776 --> 00:57:27,366
Speaker 2: More bounce, to me, in essence, more bounce is a

904
00:57:27,426 --> 00:57:32,876
Speaker 2: little harder, a little more aggressive. Yeah. And Computer Love,

905
00:57:33,036 --> 00:57:35,256
Speaker 2: it being a love song, definitely was a little bit

906
00:57:35,576 --> 00:57:36,136
Speaker 2: more mellow.

907
00:57:36,176 --> 00:57:37,096
Speaker 1: More mellow, yeah.

908
00:57:37,696 --> 00:57:39,956
Speaker 2: But the drums is what made it hard.

909
00:57:40,216 --> 00:57:43,896
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Miles Davis turned 100 this year. It's the

910
00:57:43,916 --> 00:57:49,416
Speaker 1: centennial of Miles Davis. Yeah. And you produced Miles Davis'

911
00:57:50,376 --> 00:57:51,076
Speaker 1: last album.

912
00:57:51,596 --> 00:57:52,016
Speaker 2: Dubop.

913
00:57:52,776 --> 00:57:53,316
Speaker 1: Insane.

914
00:57:53,616 --> 00:57:57,216
Speaker 2: Yeah. So before I even get into anything else, let

915
00:57:57,236 --> 00:57:59,896
Speaker 2: me tell you how I came up with the titles.

916
00:58:01,756 --> 00:58:07,066
Speaker 2: of the album, Doo Bop. Rapping is fundamental. By the

917
00:58:07,106 --> 00:58:11,146
Speaker 2: time we got our deal in 1990, the album actually

918
00:58:11,186 --> 00:58:13,546
Speaker 2: came out in 91 on A & M Records.

919
00:58:14,366 --> 00:58:14,626
Speaker 1: A.B.

920
00:58:14,686 --> 00:58:18,786
Speaker 2: Money had this idea to name the style of what

921
00:58:18,846 --> 00:58:23,526
Speaker 2: we did. And in his opinion, it was doo-wop singing,

922
00:58:23,566 --> 00:58:32,486
Speaker 2: that is. Doo-wop mixed with hip-hop. So prefix doo suffix

923
00:58:32,586 --> 00:58:36,526
Speaker 2: hop when it came time because we was just making

924
00:58:36,606 --> 00:58:39,446
Speaker 2: songs in the studio and i would ask miles what

925
00:58:39,466 --> 00:58:41,666
Speaker 2: we title in this he said i don't know i

926
00:58:41,706 --> 00:58:46,456
Speaker 2: don't give a call it whatever you want so i

927
00:58:46,506 --> 00:58:49,876
Speaker 2: asked the same about the album what we're gonna title

928
00:58:49,936 --> 00:58:52,936
Speaker 2: the album same thing he was like i don't care

929
00:58:53,056 --> 00:58:56,756
Speaker 2: call it whatever so so now that i got this

930
00:58:58,236 --> 00:59:05,576
Speaker 2: autonomy i got this power To name the album, I

931
00:59:05,616 --> 00:59:12,746
Speaker 2: expounded more on the doo-hop. Okay, we were singing on

932
00:59:12,886 --> 00:59:19,426
Speaker 2: the Do-Bop song. So that's prefix do, suffix bop, because

933
00:59:19,466 --> 00:59:23,726
Speaker 2: of his bebop style. It's crazy. I don't know how

934
00:59:23,746 --> 00:59:24,746
Speaker 2: he come up with these things.

935
00:59:26,296 --> 00:59:27,656
Speaker 1: And when you put it to him, when you told him,

936
00:59:28,016 --> 00:59:28,516
Speaker 1: what'd he say?

937
00:59:29,016 --> 00:59:33,616
Speaker 2: No, he didn't even realize what it was. I just

938
00:59:33,636 --> 00:59:37,376
Speaker 2: thought the name was cool and came up with it.

939
00:59:37,576 --> 00:59:43,506
Speaker 2: He gave me the power To title every track. Say,

940
00:59:43,526 --> 00:59:47,526
Speaker 2: for instance, like Chocolate Chip. It's just something that came

941
00:59:47,586 --> 00:59:51,016
Speaker 2: to my mind. I'm like, call it that. Mystery, which

942
00:59:51,156 --> 00:59:55,156
Speaker 2: to me always had like a mysterious feel to it. Yeah.

943
00:59:55,176 --> 01:00:01,436
Speaker 2: Because there's a monotone, this note that just holds all

944
01:00:01,456 --> 01:00:03,916
Speaker 2: the way through this song and it don't change.

945
01:00:04,156 --> 01:00:04,416
Speaker 1: Yeah.

946
01:00:05,066 --> 01:00:07,986
Speaker 2: So it was mysterious to me. So I call the

947
01:00:08,006 --> 01:00:13,626
Speaker 2: song Mystery. Mystery. And then you have Duke Booty, which

948
01:00:13,706 --> 01:00:17,376
Speaker 2: is taken from the message Grandmaster Flash and the Furious

949
01:00:17,416 --> 01:00:21,076
Speaker 2: Five featuring Duke Booty. I always thought his name was

950
01:00:21,116 --> 01:00:23,256
Speaker 2: so cool. So I don't know. I figured I don't know.

951
01:00:23,556 --> 01:00:27,586
Speaker 2: So call it Duke Booty. That's a funky track. I

952
01:00:27,806 --> 01:00:28,686
Speaker 2: like that one a lot.

953
01:00:29,686 --> 01:00:33,256
Speaker 1: Was it intimidating at first? Through the whole thing?

954
01:00:33,636 --> 01:00:36,336
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when I went to go play tracks for

955
01:00:36,376 --> 01:00:39,816
Speaker 2: him at his apartment, he lived on Central Park West,

956
01:00:39,926 --> 01:00:43,506
Speaker 2: right across the street from Central Park. I went in

957
01:00:43,526 --> 01:00:46,826
Speaker 2: there with a reel of the music that I had

958
01:00:46,866 --> 01:00:50,546
Speaker 2: done up to that point. Yeah. And there was this

959
01:00:50,606 --> 01:00:55,126
Speaker 2: song on the reel called True Fresh MC off the

960
01:00:55,186 --> 01:01:01,016
Speaker 2: Genius album, Words from the Genius. And I would compare

961
01:01:01,036 --> 01:01:04,596
Speaker 2: this track to If you close your eyes, you would

962
01:01:04,636 --> 01:01:08,316
Speaker 2: think like the Bomb Squad produced it. That track could

963
01:01:08,336 --> 01:01:12,476
Speaker 2: have easily been like a public enemy track. And I'm

964
01:01:12,516 --> 01:01:15,316
Speaker 2: playing all this other stuff. It's nice and it's friendly.

965
01:01:15,356 --> 01:01:17,836
Speaker 2: He's sitting on the couch. He's not really responding. And

966
01:01:17,876 --> 01:01:20,676
Speaker 2: then when that one, the most aggressive joint come on,

967
01:01:21,376 --> 01:01:25,836
Speaker 2: he sat up a little bit. He's like, yeah, I

968
01:01:25,876 --> 01:01:28,236
Speaker 2: want something like that. Can you do something like that

969
01:01:28,276 --> 01:01:31,006
Speaker 2: for me? I was like, yeah. So if I was

970
01:01:31,396 --> 01:01:36,266
Speaker 2: worried about And being nervous about working with him, that

971
01:01:36,346 --> 01:01:41,266
Speaker 2: right there kind of opened it up. I sighed big

972
01:01:41,326 --> 01:01:46,036
Speaker 2: time right there. Yeah. I said, okay, he want me

973
01:01:46,056 --> 01:01:49,076
Speaker 2: to be myself. Amazing. That made it easier to just

974
01:01:49,116 --> 01:01:52,916
Speaker 2: go ahead and work. Come on, man. It's Miles Davis, man.

975
01:01:53,136 --> 01:01:54,956
Speaker 1: And how would you prepare the sessions? I mean, you'd

976
01:01:54,996 --> 01:01:57,476
Speaker 1: get the music together and then bring them. Like, what

977
01:01:57,506 --> 01:01:59,566
Speaker 1: studio were you guys working out of? How did you?

978
01:02:00,716 --> 01:02:05,336
Speaker 2: The Unique Studios, which was on 47th and 7th Avenue,

979
01:02:05,936 --> 01:02:08,956
Speaker 2: right in the heart of Times Square, they've been closed

980
01:02:10,756 --> 01:02:16,066
Speaker 2: since 2003. Actually, 2004. And when the studio was closing down,

981
01:02:16,546 --> 01:02:20,406
Speaker 2: I ended up taking over the old Studio B from

982
01:02:20,406 --> 01:02:26,846
Speaker 2: 2004 to 2009. Wow. But we never recorded in Studio

983
01:02:26,886 --> 01:02:29,586
Speaker 2: B in the room that I took over. We always

984
01:02:29,886 --> 01:02:33,376
Speaker 2: seemed to record in Studio A. It was the biggest room.

985
01:02:33,396 --> 01:02:34,156
Speaker 1: Yeah.

986
01:02:34,776 --> 01:02:36,996
Speaker 2: Add the SSL in there, the biggest board, and I

987
01:02:37,036 --> 01:02:39,836
Speaker 2: don't know. It just felt real comfortable in there. Yeah.

988
01:02:40,976 --> 01:02:45,096
Speaker 1: And would you put tracks up and just put them

989
01:02:45,136 --> 01:02:46,476
Speaker 1: in the live room?

990
01:02:47,556 --> 01:02:50,436
Speaker 2: Well, the thing with me back then, and I'm still

991
01:02:50,476 --> 01:02:53,676
Speaker 2: like that to this day, I never liked coming to

992
01:02:53,696 --> 01:02:55,816
Speaker 2: the studio to create from scratch.

993
01:02:56,356 --> 01:02:56,556
Speaker 1: Right.

994
01:02:57,166 --> 01:03:00,076
Speaker 2: I feel like you're wasting the artist's time.

995
01:03:00,536 --> 01:03:00,776
Speaker 1: Yeah.

996
01:03:02,516 --> 01:03:06,556
Speaker 2: It's hourly. The rate is hourly. So if you're taking

997
01:03:07,076 --> 01:03:09,736
Speaker 2: four hours, three, four hours to make a beat, even

998
01:03:09,776 --> 01:03:12,506
Speaker 2: an hour or two, that's an hour when the artist

999
01:03:13,046 --> 01:03:16,126
Speaker 2: could have been in the booth singing or like him

1000
01:03:17,206 --> 01:03:20,766
Speaker 2: playing their instrument and recording. So I always made it

1001
01:03:20,826 --> 01:03:22,926
Speaker 2: a point to come to the studio with the tracks

1002
01:03:23,066 --> 01:03:27,386
Speaker 2: already done. Because nobody likes to wait. I didn't want

1003
01:03:27,406 --> 01:03:30,226
Speaker 2: to waste their budget. Spend a lot of money. So

1004
01:03:30,486 --> 01:03:32,886
Speaker 2: all those tracks that I made, I came to the

1005
01:03:32,926 --> 01:03:36,426
Speaker 2: studio with them already done. At home is where I

1006
01:03:36,486 --> 01:03:43,556
Speaker 2: created the concepts. Got everything down pat. And back then

1007
01:03:43,596 --> 01:03:47,256
Speaker 2: we were saving everything to the micro floppy disk for

1008
01:03:47,276 --> 01:03:51,336
Speaker 2: the SP-1200 MPCs and stuff. So I would come in

1009
01:03:51,356 --> 01:03:55,436
Speaker 2: with everything saved to the floppy disk. Didn't like taking

1010
01:03:55,496 --> 01:03:57,516
Speaker 2: my own equipment out of the house because something could

1011
01:03:57,536 --> 01:04:02,256
Speaker 2: happen to it. So they had equipment rentals where they

1012
01:04:02,276 --> 01:04:04,296
Speaker 2: would rent the equipment and it would be there when

1013
01:04:04,336 --> 01:04:05,956
Speaker 2: I get there. Only thing I had to do was

1014
01:04:05,996 --> 01:04:10,356
Speaker 2: bring my floppy disk, pop them in, engineer, start tracking

1015
01:04:10,376 --> 01:04:11,296
Speaker 2: the song. Right.

1016
01:04:12,996 --> 01:04:16,316
Speaker 1: And how many takes would you guys go through?

1017
01:04:17,616 --> 01:04:21,396
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that because every Miles Davis song

1018
01:04:21,436 --> 01:04:25,716
Speaker 2: that we did was a straight run. I'm going to

1019
01:04:25,756 --> 01:04:30,936
Speaker 2: mention Tupac also too. Tupac ties into this. Miles Davis

1020
01:04:31,016 --> 01:04:36,776
Speaker 2: hated punching. He hated punching. So my engineer, Eric Lynch,

1021
01:04:36,836 --> 01:04:40,776
Speaker 2: who kind of engineered almost everything that I ever did,

1022
01:04:40,816 --> 01:04:44,876
Speaker 2: especially if it was at unique recording studios. Miles is

1023
01:04:44,916 --> 01:04:56,036
Speaker 2: playing a horn, right? But there's still song structure. There's verse, hook, verse, hook. Outro, right?

1024
01:04:56,216 --> 01:04:56,436
Speaker 1: Right.

1025
01:04:57,616 --> 01:05:00,896
Speaker 2: So, Dubob's song was one of the first songs that

1026
01:05:01,056 --> 01:05:07,376
Speaker 2: we recorded. No, that was done with D'Anthony Johnson. All

1027
01:05:07,396 --> 01:05:10,416
Speaker 2: the other songs were done with Eric Lynch. So, I'm

1028
01:05:10,436 --> 01:05:15,926
Speaker 2: going to show you the similarities between Miles and Tupac. And,

1029
01:05:15,966 --> 01:05:19,606
Speaker 2: of course, it was Miles that I worked with first. So,

1030
01:05:19,646 --> 01:05:26,516
Speaker 2: Miles plays a verse worth of horn. My engineer, Eric Lynch,

1031
01:05:27,296 --> 01:05:31,036
Speaker 2: after the verse worth of Horn, he stopped the tape.

1032
01:05:32,396 --> 01:05:36,956
Speaker 2: Miles Davis said, don't stop my shit. Let it roll.

1033
01:05:37,006 --> 01:05:38,796
Speaker 2: Let it go. Let it go. Don't stop my shit.

1034
01:05:39,476 --> 01:05:42,806
Speaker 2: And Eric was like, I see you, Eric. You should

1035
01:05:42,826 --> 01:05:48,686
Speaker 2: have asked him. He liked to just record one long pass.

1036
01:05:49,006 --> 01:05:49,306
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1037
01:05:50,046 --> 01:05:54,106
Speaker 2: All right. So that was Miles. That was his process, right?

1038
01:05:54,676 --> 01:05:57,336
Speaker 2: All right, years later, I go into the studio. Eric

1039
01:05:57,396 --> 01:06:02,036
Speaker 2: is recording the Pac sessions, too. Pac do his first verse.

1040
01:06:02,776 --> 01:06:04,916
Speaker 2: He get to the hook. Like, if I die tonight.

1041
01:06:04,976 --> 01:06:07,806
Speaker 2: It's obvious when he say, if I die tonight. And

1042
01:06:07,826 --> 01:06:12,826
Speaker 2: he get quiet. That tells you he just did the verse. Eric, again,

1043
01:06:12,886 --> 01:06:16,806
Speaker 2: with Tupac, he stopped the tape. What did Tupac say?

1044
01:06:17,326 --> 01:06:18,226
Speaker 1: Don't stop my tape.

1045
01:06:18,486 --> 01:06:21,496
Speaker 2: Let it roll. Let it roll. Yo, that was so crazy.

1046
01:06:21,536 --> 01:06:26,216
Speaker 2: Because they had similarities. I told Eric, I said, yo,

1047
01:06:27,616 --> 01:06:32,226
Speaker 2: you learn from Miles. If he want the tape to run,

1048
01:06:32,406 --> 01:06:35,786
Speaker 2: let him do his passes. Because Pac had a process

1049
01:06:35,906 --> 01:06:39,286
Speaker 2: for the way he recorded. He would do the verses, right?

1050
01:06:39,886 --> 01:06:42,246
Speaker 2: And then when it get to the hook, he'd be quiet.

1051
01:06:43,106 --> 01:06:48,446
Speaker 2: Or he'd just mumble little stuff in the background. Doing

1052
01:06:48,486 --> 01:06:50,796
Speaker 2: quiet little stuff. And then when the verse come, he'd

1053
01:06:50,836 --> 01:06:53,696
Speaker 2: pick back up. But it's one long pass.

1054
01:06:53,796 --> 01:06:54,116
Speaker 1: Wow.

1055
01:06:54,376 --> 01:06:57,256
Speaker 2: And Miles did the same thing. He'd play his verse worth,

1056
01:06:57,796 --> 01:07:00,206
Speaker 2: and if he wasn't playing on the hooks, he'd be quiet.

1057
01:07:00,846 --> 01:07:04,226
Speaker 2: He'd wait eight bars, four bars, excuse me.

1058
01:07:05,366 --> 01:07:05,806
Speaker 1: No, eight.

1059
01:07:07,446 --> 01:07:10,636
Speaker 2: And then at the second verse, and you hear him,

1060
01:07:10,666 --> 01:07:13,466
Speaker 2: he starts playing again. You'll hear him doing that on

1061
01:07:13,666 --> 01:07:14,566
Speaker 2: the Do-Bop song.

1062
01:07:15,166 --> 01:07:15,376
Speaker 1: Wow.

1063
01:07:15,436 --> 01:07:19,016
Speaker 2: Featuring Rappin' is fundamental. I don't know, it's just crazy

1064
01:07:19,076 --> 01:07:23,616
Speaker 2: to me about those similarities that, Pac and Miles had

1065
01:07:24,276 --> 01:07:27,436
Speaker 2: as far as their process in the studio. Both of them.

1066
01:07:28,076 --> 01:07:30,116
Speaker 2: Don't stop my tape. Let it roll. Don't cut my

1067
01:07:30,136 --> 01:07:30,476
Speaker 2: shit off.

1068
01:07:32,396 --> 01:07:33,976
Speaker 1: I'd be scared as hell if Miles yelled at me

1069
01:07:33,996 --> 01:07:34,596
Speaker 1: like that, man.

1070
01:07:35,496 --> 01:07:36,476
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah.

1071
01:07:36,716 --> 01:07:40,076
Speaker 1: Did he tell you what his interest in hip-hop was?

1072
01:07:40,356 --> 01:07:41,796
Speaker 1: Did he talk about that at all?

1073
01:07:43,096 --> 01:07:50,966
Speaker 2: We didn't really get into that many. conversations like that,

1074
01:07:51,066 --> 01:07:54,206
Speaker 2: I would just present music to him, and he was

1075
01:07:54,266 --> 01:07:58,066
Speaker 2: cool with it. Wow. He wasn't really one who talked

1076
01:07:58,126 --> 01:07:58,446
Speaker 2: a lot.

1077
01:07:58,966 --> 01:07:59,226
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1078
01:08:00,546 --> 01:08:02,736
Speaker 2: I just remember the last time I saw him in

1079
01:08:03,136 --> 01:08:06,596
Speaker 2: the studio, the very last session, he was in a

1080
01:08:06,716 --> 01:08:10,916
Speaker 2: real happy mood, and his girlfriend had came to the session,

1081
01:08:11,016 --> 01:08:15,836
Speaker 2: and I don't know, he just seemed so upbeat that session,

1082
01:08:15,856 --> 01:08:19,386
Speaker 2: the last time I saw him. Yeah. And his manager said,

1083
01:08:20,046 --> 01:08:22,046
Speaker 2: we got to leave. Miles got to do some shows,

1084
01:08:22,106 --> 01:08:24,846
Speaker 2: but we're going to come back and finish the album.

1085
01:08:25,386 --> 01:08:29,406
Speaker 2: He fell sick while out on the road doing those shows.

1086
01:08:30,366 --> 01:08:32,066
Speaker 2: So they came back to me and told me that

1087
01:08:32,606 --> 01:08:35,146
Speaker 2: in order to complete the album, at that point, we

1088
01:08:35,186 --> 01:08:38,096
Speaker 2: did six songs. He said, what we're going to do

1089
01:08:38,156 --> 01:08:41,436
Speaker 2: is dig into the Warner Brothers vaults. We're going to

1090
01:08:41,496 --> 01:08:46,596
Speaker 2: pull two previously unreleased songs. You can strip those songs

1091
01:08:46,676 --> 01:08:49,566
Speaker 2: down to the horns. And build new songs around them.

1092
01:08:50,646 --> 01:08:56,876
Speaker 2: And those two songs became Fantasy and High Speed Chase.

1093
01:08:57,216 --> 01:08:57,516
Speaker 1: Wow.

1094
01:08:58,756 --> 01:09:04,126
Speaker 2: On the Do-Bop album. Wow. And the ninth song was

1095
01:09:04,486 --> 01:09:06,366
Speaker 2: a reprise of Mystery.

1096
01:09:06,906 --> 01:09:07,166
Speaker 1: Right.

1097
01:09:07,606 --> 01:09:10,426
Speaker 2: So that came to, that made Nine. nine songs. So

1098
01:09:10,566 --> 01:09:16,136
Speaker 2: in totality, we actually recorded six together, and I filled

1099
01:09:16,146 --> 01:09:21,076
Speaker 2: the album out with two previously unreleased songs that I

1100
01:09:21,096 --> 01:09:25,096
Speaker 2: built brand new songs out of. I'm not sure if

1101
01:09:25,156 --> 01:09:27,576
Speaker 2: I'm correct, if I'm right. I think I heard that

1102
01:09:28,276 --> 01:09:32,276
Speaker 2: those two Then I recrafted to complete the album. I

1103
01:09:32,316 --> 01:09:35,556
Speaker 2: think they came out of what was called the Rubber

1104
01:09:35,596 --> 01:09:40,036
Speaker 2: Band Sessions. Okay. The Rubber Band Sessions was the stuff

1105
01:09:40,096 --> 01:09:44,346
Speaker 2: that he had recorded with Prince while he was alive. Wow.

1106
01:09:44,606 --> 01:09:46,546
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Because they were going to do an album together,

1107
01:09:46,666 --> 01:09:49,446
Speaker 1: but then it just never happened.

1108
01:09:49,706 --> 01:09:52,986
Speaker 2: I don't know. But it was all in-house, and it

1109
01:09:53,026 --> 01:09:56,776
Speaker 2: was natural if they would work together because Miles was

1110
01:09:56,856 --> 01:10:02,136
Speaker 2: on Warner. Straight up Warner Brothers records. And Prince's label,

1111
01:10:02,416 --> 01:10:06,286
Speaker 2: Paisley Park... Was Warner. Was under Warner.

1112
01:10:06,526 --> 01:10:06,806
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1113
01:10:07,246 --> 01:10:07,506
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1114
01:10:07,906 --> 01:10:08,506
Speaker 1: Wild, man.

1115
01:10:08,826 --> 01:10:09,106
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1116
01:10:09,646 --> 01:10:11,466
Speaker 1: If he had... I mean, obviously, it's sad that Miles

1117
01:10:11,506 --> 01:10:14,486
Speaker 1: passed anyways. Mm-hmm. But just in the context of the story,

1118
01:10:15,526 --> 01:10:17,486
Speaker 1: it would have been interesting to be able to talk

1119
01:10:17,506 --> 01:10:20,296
Speaker 1: to him after the album's out. Mm-hmm. Maybe do some

1120
01:10:20,306 --> 01:10:22,456
Speaker 1: more work together. I mean, just, you know, you just...

1121
01:10:22,536 --> 01:10:25,716
Speaker 1: That's a what if. Like, what could a... You know.

1122
01:10:27,346 --> 01:10:29,006
Speaker 1: On the one hand, you worked with a legend. That's

1123
01:10:29,046 --> 01:10:32,506
Speaker 1: what it is. And you made a really good album.

1124
01:10:32,646 --> 01:10:34,836
Speaker 1: And that's his last statement.

1125
01:10:35,266 --> 01:10:39,356
Speaker 2: But it came under heavy criticism, though. A lot of

1126
01:10:39,376 --> 01:10:44,576
Speaker 2: the jazz purists slammed it. A lot of the media outlets.

1127
01:10:46,656 --> 01:10:49,936
Speaker 2: What's his name? Crouch, I think was his last name.

1128
01:10:49,956 --> 01:10:54,296
Speaker 2: Stanley Crouch. Oh, he slammed that album. Slammed it.

1129
01:10:54,626 --> 01:10:56,406
Speaker 1: They all slammed everything Miles did. Yeah.

1130
01:10:56,546 --> 01:11:01,246
Speaker 2: A lot of the things that got slammed when they

1131
01:11:01,266 --> 01:11:06,046
Speaker 2: were first made, they always later ended up to be

1132
01:11:06,146 --> 01:11:10,046
Speaker 2: considered to be masterpieces by people. I mean, just think,

1133
01:11:11,126 --> 01:11:16,846
Speaker 2: Barry Gordy thought that Marvin Gaye's What's Going On was trash. Yeah.

1134
01:11:16,926 --> 01:11:20,226
Speaker 2: And he thought it was a terrible move. and thought

1135
01:11:20,256 --> 01:11:27,456
Speaker 2: that he might alienate his female audience. Because Marvin was

1136
01:11:27,496 --> 01:11:32,506
Speaker 2: known to have a huge female audience. Yeah. And to

1137
01:11:32,556 --> 01:11:36,266
Speaker 2: talk about Vietnam, state of the world, the ecology, all

1138
01:11:36,306 --> 01:11:39,466
Speaker 2: of this stuff, he thought that he would abandon his

1139
01:11:39,526 --> 01:11:44,466
Speaker 2: fan base. But to this day, What's Going On tends

1140
01:11:44,506 --> 01:11:48,096
Speaker 2: to be one of the most revered albums of all time.

1141
01:11:48,296 --> 01:11:55,476
Speaker 2: And for Dubop, But now, over 35 years, is it

1142
01:11:55,496 --> 01:12:00,146
Speaker 2: that far, that long? 35. People were praising the album, like, oh, Moby,

1143
01:12:00,206 --> 01:12:02,046
Speaker 2: I love that. I was like, but back then, I

1144
01:12:02,066 --> 01:12:05,386
Speaker 2: was struggling. Oh, man. They were slamming it. I know.

1145
01:12:05,586 --> 01:12:07,066
Speaker 1: That's what I mean. It's like, it's too bad Miles

1146
01:12:07,086 --> 01:12:09,586
Speaker 1: wasn't around. Because I don't think Miles would have given, like, Miles,

1147
01:12:09,626 --> 01:12:13,066
Speaker 1: a lot of his stuff got panned, and he didn't

1148
01:12:13,086 --> 01:12:14,266
Speaker 1: give a fuck. Yeah.

1149
01:12:14,466 --> 01:12:19,536
Speaker 2: Anything new. Might be hard to accept. Yeah. Just like

1150
01:12:19,596 --> 01:12:22,736
Speaker 2: when he did the Bitches Brute album. 100%. You know,

1151
01:12:22,816 --> 01:12:30,796
Speaker 2: bringing in the whole electric thing. Electric piano, at times funkish,

1152
01:12:30,976 --> 01:12:35,216
Speaker 2: at times rockish. And even a lot of his own

1153
01:12:35,256 --> 01:12:36,276
Speaker 2: peers back then.

1154
01:12:36,386 --> 01:12:36,546
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1155
01:12:36,556 --> 01:12:41,126
Speaker 2: Just trying to figure out, like, what are you doing? Yeah.

1156
01:12:41,146 --> 01:12:43,666
Speaker 1: You know, and playing with his back to the audience

1157
01:12:43,726 --> 01:12:46,606
Speaker 1: used to piss people off. Yeah. not wanting to revisit

1158
01:12:46,626 --> 01:12:48,546
Speaker 1: his hit. It's like funny, like, you know, Quincy finally,

1159
01:12:48,586 --> 01:12:50,706
Speaker 1: I guess, towards the end, got him to revisit Kinda Blue,

1160
01:12:50,726 --> 01:12:52,206
Speaker 1: but he was just like, I don't ever want to

1161
01:12:52,246 --> 01:12:53,186
Speaker 1: play that stuff again.

1162
01:12:53,406 --> 01:12:57,766
Speaker 2: I saw an interview where he was sitting on a

1163
01:12:57,806 --> 01:13:02,836
Speaker 2: couch on some late night show where he spoke of

1164
01:13:04,176 --> 01:13:06,916
Speaker 2: his back being to the audience. He said it had

1165
01:13:07,176 --> 01:13:11,036
Speaker 2: something or more to do with being able to hear

1166
01:13:11,056 --> 01:13:12,196
Speaker 2: the band correctly.

1167
01:13:12,376 --> 01:13:12,636
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1168
01:13:13,116 --> 01:13:16,556
Speaker 2: He felt like if he was facing... the band, he

1169
01:13:16,586 --> 01:13:17,626
Speaker 2: could hear them better.

1170
01:13:17,866 --> 01:13:18,146
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1171
01:13:18,946 --> 01:13:21,006
Speaker 2: As opposed to standing with his back to them.

1172
01:13:21,366 --> 01:13:23,966
Speaker 1: And probably couldn't get a good connection going, too. You're

1173
01:13:24,006 --> 01:13:27,026
Speaker 1: kind of more... That might have been the diplomatic answer.

1174
01:13:27,106 --> 01:13:30,306
Speaker 1: I think Miles did want to turn his back on

1175
01:13:30,326 --> 01:13:35,296
Speaker 1: a lot of them people. I love that Miles was

1176
01:13:37,336 --> 01:13:38,016
Speaker 1: just different.

1177
01:13:38,196 --> 01:13:38,536
Speaker 2: Left.

1178
01:13:38,996 --> 01:13:39,236
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1179
01:13:39,736 --> 01:13:40,436
Speaker 2: Total left.

1180
01:13:40,556 --> 01:13:43,336
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. No one like that. I mean, like, come on.

1181
01:13:43,396 --> 01:13:45,256
Speaker 1: How many people? There's not a lot of artists like that.

1182
01:13:45,566 --> 01:13:49,926
Speaker 2: Just never want to lead. He always never want to follow.

1183
01:13:50,006 --> 01:13:57,656
Speaker 2: He always led. So I just came from New York doing, uh, uh,

1184
01:13:57,856 --> 01:14:00,596
Speaker 2: a small mini book tour. We didn't get to plug

1185
01:14:00,616 --> 01:14:07,086
Speaker 2: that yet, but iconic beats, which iconic beats, which is,

1186
01:14:07,346 --> 01:14:11,046
Speaker 2: you can call it my memoir. It speaks about my

1187
01:14:11,106 --> 01:14:18,696
Speaker 2: time spent in the music business. Um, artists that I

1188
01:14:18,736 --> 01:14:22,376
Speaker 2: work with, it starts from me being a little boy

1189
01:14:22,396 --> 01:14:27,386
Speaker 2: in the projects going all the way up to modern day. Yeah.

1190
01:14:27,806 --> 01:14:30,946
Speaker 2: So that's a good read. That's something anybody wants to

1191
01:14:30,986 --> 01:14:35,946
Speaker 2: check out. Iconic Beats, Easy Mo Beats, available at all

1192
01:14:35,966 --> 01:14:39,216
Speaker 2: your bookstores and amazon.com. Yeah.

1193
01:14:39,796 --> 01:14:41,816
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got great stories in there.

1194
01:14:42,196 --> 01:14:46,016
Speaker 2: Yeah. No fluff, just like real stories.

1195
01:14:46,936 --> 01:14:47,156
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1196
01:14:47,866 --> 01:14:52,706
Speaker 2: Of things that happened, time spent with artists, my experience,

1197
01:14:53,826 --> 01:14:57,966
Speaker 2: my life, not just about the music, but my upbringing,

1198
01:14:59,016 --> 01:15:03,636
Speaker 2: my family. I wanted to tell that story, let people

1199
01:15:03,676 --> 01:15:10,676
Speaker 2: get a deeper look into Austin Harvey Jr., a.k.a. Easy

1200
01:15:10,716 --> 01:15:11,156
Speaker 2: Mo B.

1201
01:15:12,176 --> 01:15:14,986
Speaker 1: In the book, do you get into shimmy shimmy yaa?

1202
01:15:15,726 --> 01:15:19,016
Speaker 2: Oh, how the original was recorded in the projects?

1203
01:15:19,176 --> 01:15:20,116
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1204
01:15:20,696 --> 01:15:24,616
Speaker 2: Under the title of Brooklyn Zoo. And then by the

1205
01:15:24,656 --> 01:15:29,186
Speaker 2: time 36 Chambers came out, RZA took the idea of

1206
01:15:29,266 --> 01:15:34,906
Speaker 2: the same beat, remaking it and renaming the song Shimmy

1207
01:15:34,946 --> 01:15:37,816
Speaker 2: Shimmy Ya. Yeah, I talk about that.

1208
01:15:37,836 --> 01:15:39,556
Speaker 1: That's a sampling of the kind of stuff you can

1209
01:15:39,596 --> 01:15:42,876
Speaker 1: get in that book. I mean, there's so many stories, man.

1210
01:15:42,956 --> 01:15:44,736
Speaker 2: And so many other stories, yeah.

1211
01:15:44,896 --> 01:15:48,906
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It's a wonderful, wonderful career you've had, man.

1212
01:15:49,286 --> 01:15:51,146
Speaker 2: Yo, I got to say, I enjoyed this sit down.

1213
01:15:51,206 --> 01:15:54,706
Speaker 2: It was, you had some good questions, but then you

1214
01:15:54,746 --> 01:15:57,506
Speaker 2: allowed me to talk about things that I wanted to.

1215
01:15:57,526 --> 01:16:02,806
Speaker 2: It's not always as, you know, you always have the

1216
01:16:02,986 --> 01:16:06,646
Speaker 2: kind of freedom to speak like that. Because people have,

1217
01:16:07,066 --> 01:16:11,526
Speaker 2: the interviewers have their own questions. And they just keep

1218
01:16:11,586 --> 01:16:14,226
Speaker 2: it so narrow. So thank you for giving me the

1219
01:16:14,286 --> 01:16:18,646
Speaker 2: chance to speak. That's the goal, man. Tell some stories

1220
01:16:18,686 --> 01:16:20,616
Speaker 2: that people might not have ever known.

1221
01:16:21,216 --> 01:16:23,436
Speaker 1: Hey, you're the hardest, man. I want to go where

1222
01:16:23,456 --> 01:16:25,416
Speaker 1: you want to go. You know what I mean? So

1223
01:16:25,636 --> 01:16:26,836
Speaker 1: I'm happy we did it, man.

1224
01:16:27,036 --> 01:16:27,256
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1225
01:16:27,656 --> 01:16:27,996
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1226
01:16:28,616 --> 01:16:34,306
Speaker 2: First time on camera ever. Easy Mo B. Broken record.

1227
01:16:34,946 --> 01:16:38,266
Speaker 1: Podcast that's it come on that's it man come on

1228
01:16:38,306 --> 01:16:43,876
Speaker 1: now Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose

1229
01:16:43,916 --> 01:16:46,776
Speaker 1: with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan our

1230
01:16:46,836 --> 01:16:50,236
Speaker 1: engineer is Ben Talladay Broken Record is a production of

1231
01:16:50,336 --> 01:16:53,026
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries if you love this show and others from

1232
01:16:53,046 --> 01:16:56,586
Speaker 1: Pushkin consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus Pushkin Plus is a

1233
01:16:56,606 --> 01:16:59,866
Speaker 1: podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free listening

1234
01:17:00,206 --> 01:17:02,706
Speaker 1: for $ 4. 99 a month look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1235
01:17:02,726 --> 01:17:06,206
Speaker 1: Podcast Subscriptions And if you like this show, please remember

1236
01:17:06,246 --> 01:17:08,266
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1237
01:17:08,776 --> 01:17:11,016
Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.