Speaker 1: Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Forward Thinking. Hello, and welcome to Forward Thinking. The podcast
Speaker 1: it looks at the future and says, they tell me
Speaker 1: that it's good for me, but I don't even care.
Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Vogelba, I'm Joe McCormick, and I'm Holly Fry. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: Jonathan is out on vacation today, but Holly, being a
Speaker 1: fitness enthusiast, is joining us again. If you tune into
Speaker 1: the last episode, you have already borne witness to our
Speaker 1: shenanigans and we're just tickled pink to have her. We
Speaker 1: we certainly are. Thank you, say my favorite God. So
Speaker 1: we are continuing today to talk about fitness. We wanted
Speaker 1: to to talk more about the the science and what
Speaker 1: we know and what we absolutely don't know, and how
Speaker 1: exciting all of this future research is going to be.
Speaker 1: One thing that I think is amazing about fitness is
Speaker 1: this is such a basic issue and there's so much
Speaker 1: that like we're still discovering and still haven't things we
Speaker 1: still haven't settled. Blows my mind. Well, sure, I mean
Speaker 1: we've basically been human beings the way that we think
Speaker 1: of human beings for you know, tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: years I think years that and and we're still really
Speaker 1: mystified by how our bodies work, which is I mean
Speaker 1: partially because of the fact that all of our bodies
Speaker 1: are very slightly different, which MUCKs things up. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of factors involved. You know, what we're eating
Speaker 1: and where we're living and uh frog, science is unanimous
Speaker 1: that the best thing for us is to sit at
Speaker 1: a desk and watch YouTube all day. Well, then I
Speaker 1: am set. Fortunately, actually that is not what science agrees
Speaker 1: is the best for us. No, and we went into
Speaker 1: that in depth in the last episode. But Joe, can
Speaker 1: you recap it for us? Really brief recap? Okay, So
Speaker 1: everybody needs exercise. You already know this, but just be
Speaker 1: assured it is a true science fact. Exercise is good
Speaker 1: for you. The US Health Department recommends that all healthy
Speaker 1: adult individuals get a minimum of a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: minutes of moderate intensity aerobic activity every week, or seventy
Speaker 1: five minutes of vigorous activity. So basically what that means
Speaker 1: is like a hundred and fifty minutes of of modern
Speaker 1: intensity walking, say where your heart rates elevated a little
Speaker 1: bit or or lighter tasks like you know, gardening and
Speaker 1: stuff stuff like that. Um or seventy five minutes of
Speaker 1: like hard running or intense sport playing something like that,
Speaker 1: plus two sessions of strength training per week. And how
Speaker 1: are we doing? Well? We're not quite getting there. Less
Speaker 1: than as of the first six months of twelve, less
Speaker 1: than half of American adults were meeting these we're meeting
Speaker 1: just the goal for aerobic activity and about what was
Speaker 1: it twenty point seven percent of Americans between twenty five
Speaker 1: and sixty four are meeting both of these requirements for
Speaker 1: the aerobic activity and the strength training. Uh so, so
Speaker 1: we're so we're doing We're doing kind of all right,
Speaker 1: not not not could be great great, Yeah, but we'd
Speaker 1: like to talk a bit about, um, how science may
Speaker 1: inform the way we make fitness decisions in the future
Speaker 1: and reach our fitness goals. And uh it achieved greater
Speaker 1: performance and utter excellence and mystical power. I can't wait,
Speaker 1: can't wait for my mystical powers to kick in. Tell
Speaker 1: us about your mystical powers. I'm going to keep running
Speaker 1: and running and running until I can alter space with
Speaker 1: my mind. Oh wow, that sounds pretty good. You have
Speaker 1: you have a much bigger goal I have. I think
Speaker 1: I have like a like actually work out that that
Speaker 1: couple of times a week that Joe was talking about.
Speaker 1: That's my main goal right now, not not ending the
Speaker 1: time space continuum through my workouts. Well he promised you
Speaker 1: mystical powers. Hello, Okay, I'm working on a trick where
Speaker 1: I do push ups, but I'm staying in place and
Speaker 1: moving the earth. I think when you get there, I
Speaker 1: want to witness it. It's going to be cool. All right.
Speaker 1: So this does all tie into to the science of motivations.
Speaker 1: Um and uh like, like we said a little bit
Speaker 1: in the last episode, Um, you know, these these are
Speaker 1: really important for how much exercise you wind up actually getting.
Speaker 1: UM and and all sorts of things like like the enjoyment,
Speaker 1: the challenges. You know, personal motivators like like appearance and
Speaker 1: weight management and stress management can all be reasons that
Speaker 1: people work out. Um. Those first to the the enjoyment
Speaker 1: and the challenge of it tend to be really good
Speaker 1: indicators of adherence to exercise, which basically means that we
Speaker 1: should all be playing sports or gamifying things. Again, like
Speaker 1: we were saying in the last episode, that's pretty rad um.
Speaker 1: The the prefrontal cortex rules a lot of how motivated
Speaker 1: we are about stuff, because that's that's where we reason
Speaker 1: and make choices in response to stimuli. Unfortunately, this can
Speaker 1: kind of work against us because being physically unfit means
Speaker 1: that it is harder to exercise and that people want
Speaker 1: to do it less um and and as you know, conversely,
Speaker 1: as you get more fit, you have better motivation because
Speaker 1: you're probably you've fallen into a routine, you might have
Speaker 1: some kind of social contract going on, you're having fun,
Speaker 1: and it also just feels better at that point, right. Sure, times,
Speaker 1: the startup has a lot of eggs and pains to it,
Speaker 1: whether you have extra weight or not. Even people that
Speaker 1: look very fit sometimes aren't. In the startup is just
Speaker 1: painful and awful, and it's hard to sustain, you know,
Speaker 1: those first couple of weeks, No, I really want to
Speaker 1: keep going. But once you're into it and your body's
Speaker 1: accustomed to the movement, it feels better and you want
Speaker 1: to do it more, right right. A lot of people
Speaker 1: talk also about the adrenaline rush that you'll get from
Speaker 1: pushing your muscles to a certain point. The runners high. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's real. I'm not kidding that you read about it
Speaker 1: the first time. It actually happened to me. After I
Speaker 1: started running, I thought I was having a stroke. I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding. Like, I pulled my car over because I
Speaker 1: was like, there's no reason I should be this giddy
Speaker 1: for no utter, I'm just driving down the street. Um.
Speaker 1: It was very bizarre and wonderful. Now I know what
Speaker 1: it is, and I know I am not experiencing a
Speaker 1: cerebral event of concern. It's amazing. It feels like I
Speaker 1: felt it. It feels like life is good and I
Speaker 1: want a burrito. Mine was more like screechy happiness, like
Speaker 1: when you creshed a roller coaster. Like, like, it was
Speaker 1: very bizarre. You see why I pulled over. It's like
Speaker 1: I might not be fit to conduct a vehicle at
Speaker 1: this time. Um, But then it passed. It was getting okay.
Speaker 1: So so so these are all These are all kind
Speaker 1: of in brain hormonal sort of things going on there.
Speaker 1: There is research that motivation might have a genetic component. Um.
Speaker 1: There is a study done at the University of Missouri
Speaker 1: with two groups of rats that that through breeding they
Speaker 1: created one that really loved to run a lot and
Speaker 1: the other were just a little ratty couch potatoes. UM
Speaker 1: through through a series of ten generations of of tracking
Speaker 1: how much rats and each breeding group enjoyed running, Like
Speaker 1: how much given the chance to they would just run
Speaker 1: on their own and uh and interbreeding um the two
Speaker 1: the two groups to greater exclusivity. So, I mean that's
Speaker 1: with rats. Rats are not people. It's a little bit
Speaker 1: more complicated with people. Rats don't have as much you know,
Speaker 1: like Buffy reruns to go through, for example, But you
Speaker 1: just set it up so you can be on the
Speaker 1: treadmill and watch the Buffy. That's what I do. I do.
Speaker 1: I turn on things that I want to watch and
Speaker 1: I and I bought around my living room with freeweights.
Speaker 1: That is my basic exercise mode. If you're a wild rat,
Speaker 1: you really need to be getting exercise a lot. I
Speaker 1: would think, right, your choices of your behavior option. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like there are no cats in America. We were wrong.
Speaker 1: Where are these rats getting their information? I don't know.
Speaker 1: The streets are not, in fact paved with cheese. There
Speaker 1: were no cats in America. We were lied to live.
Speaker 1: I thought they get to be catch potatoes and were wrong.
Speaker 1: It's a secret covert cat operation to misinform rats of
Speaker 1: other countries to come here, go to America. It's awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: unfortunately we've really shut down the the rat population intake
Speaker 1: through Ellis Island. It's really hard to the rat to
Speaker 1: get papers there anymore. Um changes, which is awful. Mousko
Speaker 1: it's anyway, um uh so so so so. Genetics is
Speaker 1: certainly a factor to to not only how good we
Speaker 1: are based level at exercising, but also to whether or
Speaker 1: not we're motivated. But other motivators Again, like we were
Speaker 1: talking about in the in the last episode, is that
Speaker 1: emotional support thing? Um. A meta of you done by
Speaker 1: the Community Preventative Services Task Force of the CDC found
Speaker 1: that social support led to people being physically active in longer,
Speaker 1: more frequent sessions, and that they wound up improving their
Speaker 1: aerobic capacity, confidence and knowledge, and decreasing their body fat percentages.
Speaker 1: So when so, I mean that sounds like basic knowledge,
Speaker 1: but it's a science fact um and uh. Furthermore, a
Speaker 1: series of four studies conducted at the University of Georgia
Speaker 1: here in Town UM published in twenty and found that
Speaker 1: self control, or the lack thereof, is contagious across behaviors um,
Speaker 1: which basically means that if you see people, Joe, you
Speaker 1: were talking about that a little bit in the last
Speaker 1: episode wherein um, you know the that color color effect,
Speaker 1: color effect right where wherein Uh, if you're among a
Speaker 1: group of people performing better than you, it helps you
Speaker 1: sure um And and lots of other research backs this up.
Speaker 1: The Framingham Heart Study, which if you guys have never
Speaker 1: heard about, is my personal favorite medical research study. I
Speaker 1: get super excited about the outcomes from it because, Um,
Speaker 1: this is spanning a community of over fifteen thousand people
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts from on and and so, I mean, all
Speaker 1: of these families living in this one town have just
Speaker 1: been tracked a whole bunch of their weight and health
Speaker 1: indicators forever and and yeah. And there was one segment
Speaker 1: of research that occurred from two thousand three finding that
Speaker 1: obesity and healthy weight both appeared in social clusters. Um
Speaker 1: that that you had an increased at seven percent increased
Speaker 1: chance of becoming obese if you have a friend who
Speaker 1: becomes obest within this time period. That's a lot significant. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: way significant, hell is significant. Um. If you're sibling, if
Speaker 1: your adult sibling became abast seven percent, if your spouse
Speaker 1: became abst and so yeah, um so so so that
Speaker 1: that social motivator is really intense, is what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing that we're still learning these things right, right,
Speaker 1: and that you know, and that it was a it
Speaker 1: was a huge surprise when this research was published. It
Speaker 1: was like, oh, oh dear, oh my goodness. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have taught that class on how to make mayonnaise, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, you should always teach a class on how
Speaker 1: to make but you all know when mayonnaise was invented.
Speaker 1: I do not. I don't either, but wonder about some
Speaker 1: magical magic somewhere in France long ago. Yeah, so we're
Speaker 1: still learning things like that. Like I Holly told me
Speaker 1: about something that absolutely blew my mind. Apparently the question
Speaker 1: is not settled yet what should you wear when you're running? Well,
Speaker 1: oh it's settled. It is settled by science now. But
Speaker 1: this is a recent thing. Actually, let me correct, lots
Speaker 1: of people don't know, which is shocking to me, but
Speaker 1: only because I crave comfort in all things explained clothes.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Holly explained earlier that she has
Speaker 1: a real love of the history of underwear. So maybe
Speaker 1: this will inform your I don't know that it will,
Speaker 1: except I do have a in history. I really love undergarments.
Speaker 1: I think they're fascinating as an indicator of cultural happenings.
Speaker 1: But in terms of fitness and running specifically, which is
Speaker 1: what I do, a lot of cotton is rotten, and
Speaker 1: there is this thing where people tend to think that
Speaker 1: now tural fibers must be better their natural fibers, for
Speaker 1: heaven's sakes. Um but heads up, not so much when
Speaker 1: you're running, because cotton is very absorbent, but it is
Speaker 1: not so good at drying out. But it comes from
Speaker 1: a plant. How could it be bad? Because if you
Speaker 1: have a wet thing rubbing up against you for thirteen miles,
Speaker 1: I'm going to put a safe bet that it's going
Speaker 1: to start to hurt and become uncomfortable and potentially give
Speaker 1: you a rash. Also, it's making that fabric heavier, which
Speaker 1: is lame. Yes, I scientifically lame. I have taken on
Speaker 1: a lot of water during a run when I was
Speaker 1: wearing a costume, and I could tell you by the
Speaker 1: end of it there was a lot of weight and pain.
Speaker 1: I have a friend on one of his longest runs
Speaker 1: ever that he was sort of forging new territory and
Speaker 1: and he ran a very long run that he had
Speaker 1: done before, and at the end is nipples were not
Speaker 1: in a happy place. I know. That's pretty common. This
Speaker 1: is one of those things that when if you get
Speaker 1: into running, there's this whole secret world of information about
Speaker 1: how that could go horribly wrong. Yeah. And then many
Speaker 1: many kinds of products that are that are sold to
Speaker 1: perhaps lubricate things like your inner thighs and your nipples
Speaker 1: that might get you. Yeah. The big one that most
Speaker 1: runners that I know us is called body glide, and
Speaker 1: it's basically like a uh it looks like a deodorant stick.
Speaker 1: It's like a bomb type thing that will keep things
Speaker 1: from chafing so much. I have heard from friends in
Speaker 1: the military that they just use deodorant. It works exactly
Speaker 1: the same. So okay, test as you will. But the
Speaker 1: thing about textiles and cotton in in particular, is that
Speaker 1: it will As I said, it takes on water, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not very good at getting rid of
Speaker 1: that water, so it's just rubbing up against you and
Speaker 1: causing blisters. If you have cotton socks, um chafing on
Speaker 1: your clothes and so it really has been this huge
Speaker 1: advancement in the last couple of decades in uh what
Speaker 1: is called sort of tech textiles UH and basically they're
Speaker 1: made to wick away water. They pull it off of
Speaker 1: your skin and then it evaporates quickly so you're not
Speaker 1: dragging it around or living in it. This is due
Speaker 1: to the wonder of plastics. It is. It's due to
Speaker 1: the wonder of plastics and of weaving. They're actually woven
Speaker 1: in a way that they will channel water in the
Speaker 1: most dissipating effect, so it keeps water from bulking up
Speaker 1: anywhere on the garment. It will getting a surface area
Speaker 1: great enough to to maximize that evaporation effect. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: actually like the way that the the we've comes off
Speaker 1: of the loom, and it's usually with polyestro fibers, often
Speaker 1: with nylon involved. They're actually tiny tubes in the textile
Speaker 1: weave that kind of pull water uh away from anyone's spots.
Speaker 1: So it's always on the move. And once you're running
Speaker 1: and that water is getting dissipated into thinner and thinner layers,
Speaker 1: it's evaporating much more quickly. UH. There will often be
Speaker 1: an effect where it's kind of a clear thing to
Speaker 1: test it. So there are two things that are going on.
Speaker 1: One is this this movement of water where they're circulating
Speaker 1: the water away from anyone space. And two is the
Speaker 1: air circulation around you that's bringing it off, so that
Speaker 1: as you're running normally, you're creating wind currents around yourself
Speaker 1: and that's helping. But if you ever want to test
Speaker 1: like this actually functioning with and without the wind portion
Speaker 1: of it, uh, if you run in a small room
Speaker 1: on a treadmill, you are not going to dry off
Speaker 1: as quickly because there's just not as much air movement
Speaker 1: around you, whereas if you go outside and do the
Speaker 1: exact same run in the exact same temperature, in the
Speaker 1: same wicking garment, you will be dry much more quickly. Uh.
Speaker 1: And those will help keep you from getting horrible chafing misery.
Speaker 1: It helps with the nipple thing that boys get sometimes
Speaker 1: women usually are wearing sports bra so it's there. There's
Speaker 1: a whole other set of physics work there. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and the textile industry is constantly sort of working to
Speaker 1: keep these uh, these fabrics advancing and getting better and
Speaker 1: better at their jobs. And some will keep you warm
Speaker 1: and cold climates and others will keep you cool in
Speaker 1: hot climates. UM. It's very fascinating and good stuff. The
Speaker 1: some of the stuff I'm excited about, I think I
Speaker 1: think that you edited an article about this fair how
Speaker 1: stuff works, Holly was UM people who are integrating some
Speaker 1: of the UH bio sensors into garments like this and
Speaker 1: and using so that you can wear a shirt that
Speaker 1: will a wick your moisture away and be track your activity.
Speaker 1: Is that there are some there are experimental. There's nothing
Speaker 1: on the market UM for anybody that watches Project Runway.
Speaker 1: Many seasons back, there was a designer named Diana Ang
Speaker 1: and she's actually from a science background and she's done
Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting stuff working with UM various
Speaker 1: sensors and technologies. She worked on a hoodie some years
Speaker 1: back that had a camera in it that was in
Speaker 1: the top of the hood so if you're wearing the hoodie,
Speaker 1: there was a heart monitor attached and when your heart
Speaker 1: elevated past a certain rate, it would automatically take a picture.
Speaker 1: And her idea was one of an artistic concept of like,
Speaker 1: when you are excited, it will be taking a record
Speaker 1: of the things that excite you in your life. UH.
Speaker 1: There are potential military applications to it that I think
Speaker 1: have been kind of investigated. I remember when it first
Speaker 1: came out, there was talk on various um kind of
Speaker 1: nerdy textile message boards about the potential um application of
Speaker 1: having people that were, for example, on parole, wearing something
Speaker 1: like this so that if it looked like they were
Speaker 1: likely to um knock over once again, like go into
Speaker 1: a life of crime, theoretically their heart would rise and
Speaker 1: it would do it. But textile message boards, there's everything
Speaker 1: and anything you could ever imagine on the Internet in
Speaker 1: message board form. I was going to say, is another
Speaker 1: quick aside that some of this technology, and I think
Speaker 1: this is on the market in Japan or Korea, that
Speaker 1: there are ears and tails that they sell that have
Speaker 1: little little little mini rots and then that will will here, okay,
Speaker 1: that will react to your heart rate when when you
Speaker 1: get excited your your tail awag or whatever. You can't
Speaker 1: they have them some anime conventions you'll find them. So,
Speaker 1: but that is getting away from that's like a fun,
Speaker 1: fun thing, right, But from the fitness angle, it's a
Speaker 1: very short walk to envision things like that being integrated
Speaker 1: into your clothes to kind of track how you're doing
Speaker 1: in your health that you're doing it in your performance.
Speaker 1: And they're even clothes that are allegedly designed to keep
Speaker 1: you warm enough that your basil metabolic rate increases. It's
Speaker 1: like that you're burning more, more calories faster at all times,
Speaker 1: even when you're still I haven't tested them. I don't
Speaker 1: know some some some of those we're going to get
Speaker 1: in in a minute into some of the kind of
Speaker 1: what I could do, waste of money sort of things
Speaker 1: that I'm going to talk about bad exercise science too,
Speaker 1: and that that that sounds like it's arranging very dangerously
Speaker 1: close to. But I want to talk about another issue
Speaker 1: I've heard about, and this is funny because people have
Speaker 1: opinions about this one well, about everything related to fitness.
Speaker 1: There is apparently some debate between people who favor running
Speaker 1: with shoes on versus people who favor running barefoot. Christopher McDougal,
Speaker 1: what have you done to us? I I believe. I
Speaker 1: believe that if all tell me the science facts, all
Speaker 1: the terrible understatements that we make on this show, that
Speaker 1: is maybe one that I'm the most personally familiar with
Speaker 1: and terrified by. I don't even like saying the word
Speaker 1: barefoot on the internet anymore. It's like saying Nazis. It's
Speaker 1: just it's awful. I mean people get up in arms,
Speaker 1: Um they do so. So so how are you're you're
Speaker 1: you're entrenched in running communities? Do do you do? You
Speaker 1: have a personal recollection of when this whole thing got started?
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I mean when it really exploded was
Speaker 1: when Christopher McDougal's book, which is called And to Run,
Speaker 1: came out and in it it is a book that's
Speaker 1: about running but also about cultural anthropology, and in it
Speaker 1: he talks about the Tatahumara tribe of Mexico and they
Speaker 1: are just culturally runners. They run four hundreds of miles
Speaker 1: at a time wearing nothing but like basically a piece
Speaker 1: of leather strap to the bottom of their foot. And
Speaker 1: this sort of launched this big discussion about how no,
Speaker 1: our bodies are actually designed biomechanically, with without big crazy
Speaker 1: shoes made in a factory. You were made unner, made
Speaker 1: to be a runner, and so this must be the
Speaker 1: right way. These people run all the time, they're injury free,
Speaker 1: they must be doing it correctly. This started this huge
Speaker 1: movement where people were like, I'm throwing out my shoes. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean I personally have a brother of a close
Speaker 1: friend of mine who is an ultramarrathon or he will
Speaker 1: do hundred mile races and this is a great idea,
Speaker 1: and he ran out and ran like twenty two miles
Speaker 1: and got a stress fracture because his body. While bio
Speaker 1: mechanically we may be designed to do that on some level.
Speaker 1: If your whole life has not been spent that way
Speaker 1: and then you start running that way, that's not what
Speaker 1: your body does anymore, right, sold, just as an outside observer,
Speaker 1: I mean on that that evolutionary adaptation argument. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're all kinds of states of nature in which we
Speaker 1: are evolved to do certain things. But certainly we're healthier
Speaker 1: if we do them a different way or or or
Speaker 1: at least more comfortable, or it's what we're used to.
Speaker 1: And I think that what we're used to is a
Speaker 1: larger factor most of the time. I mean, okay, So,
Speaker 1: so the the actual biomedical end of this is is
Speaker 1: that people who push for barefoot running say that it's
Speaker 1: that the most efficient way to run is to land
Speaker 1: on the fore foot or slightly into the midfoot rum.
Speaker 1: Rather than he'll striking, he'll striking being Um what a
Speaker 1: lot of these very padded shoes that became especially popular
Speaker 1: in the nine eighties, and they really didn't become popular
Speaker 1: until the nineteen eighties. Things like checks uh Converse were
Speaker 1: very popular as actual exercise shoes through the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1: Those really were for basketball, right, like heavy impact activity
Speaker 1: and not for hipsters like me. Right yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: they didn't wear them to the office or I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess they could have. But wearing them right now,
Speaker 1: I am. I mean they're great, they're super comfortable, but
Speaker 1: um but I cannot imagine running in them. I do
Speaker 1: not want to do that now. Um And and proponents
Speaker 1: of bare foot runnings say that we are right like,
Speaker 1: more likely to strain our tendons and ligaments and wind
Speaker 1: up causing either more immediate injuries or long term skeletal
Speaker 1: issues by doing all of this crazy heel striking. Um
Speaker 1: and they also will say that our feet would naturally
Speaker 1: be stronger and able to handle our own weight if
Speaker 1: we had not munged them up by wearing shoes all
Speaker 1: the time to train in right. Okay, So, so the
Speaker 1: actual research says that yes, minimal running will encourage you
Speaker 1: to strike in the fore midfoot more so than is
Speaker 1: actually my natural stride. That's awesome. That is maybe why
Speaker 1: you are better at running than I am, are more
Speaker 1: motivated to rent. I have really good natural endurance, and
Speaker 1: I think it's because I don't tend to get injuries
Speaker 1: from it. I get some other injuries, but uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't had like impact issues. I haven't had shin splints.
Speaker 1: That's yeah. I my knees are terrible. But and and
Speaker 1: and also other I don't know. I'm making Joe laugh
Speaker 1: when you said other injuries. I just imagine from like
Speaker 1: you know, knife tricks. I can tell you I do
Speaker 1: get running injuries. I have tendonitis, and it's because I
Speaker 1: way too much to run as much as I do. Okay,
Speaker 1: it has caused some things to tighten up in ways
Speaker 1: they shouldn't. And I have tendonitis. Well, uh and a
Speaker 1: really good physical therapist well excellent science. Um and also
Speaker 1: walking studies have found that for people, um, I mean
Speaker 1: these these these studies have been done in people with
Speaker 1: arthritis and rheumatisms involved in their feet, legs, and knees. Uh.
Speaker 1: With knees in particular, you should you should walk if
Speaker 1: you've got issues with your knees in particular, these studies
Speaker 1: say you should definitely walk barefoot as much as possible
Speaker 1: because any any kind of soul is going to lead
Speaker 1: to UH, to worse impact and more injuries. So so
Speaker 1: that is those are the two things that I've seen
Speaker 1: people agree upon everything else, including whether or not it
Speaker 1: causes less strain or potential injury and the short and
Speaker 1: or long term, and it's it's I've seen research that
Speaker 1: says it both ways. That UM. Some studies say that
Speaker 1: the four foot strike will help you disperse the impact
Speaker 1: of running better and and therefore let you run better
Speaker 1: on harder surfaces without discomfort, but some found increased arch
Speaker 1: strain and UH plantar flex or force, while four foot
Speaker 1: striking UM, however, less achilles tendon strain and ne flexation.
Speaker 1: So it goes both ways. Milner for schitis. Right here
Speaker 1: there you go. There is also sort of an interesting
Speaker 1: middle round that doesn't have so much to do with
Speaker 1: the footwear running UH, and it kind of has been
Speaker 1: around much longer than this whole barefoot running thing which exploded,
Speaker 1: and the idea behind that is very pro four foot striking,
Speaker 1: midfoot striking really and kind of about handling where your
Speaker 1: your body weight falls during your stride, But they are
Speaker 1: not telling anyone to throw their shoes away, so it
Speaker 1: kind of is a meet in the middle place for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Are right, sure, it's it's more
Speaker 1: correcting your stride and and working on that, working on
Speaker 1: being aware of your stride than trying to use shoes
Speaker 1: or the lack thereof to change it artificially, which is
Speaker 1: where I think that I mean because research has definitely
Speaker 1: showed that if you make a change and expect to
Speaker 1: just go out and run the way that you always
Speaker 1: have been, that you're going to hurt yourself. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and even proponents of barefoot running will say, oh, absolutely right,
Speaker 1: run half a mile even if you are a marathon
Speaker 1: or only run half a mile this way at first,
Speaker 1: and build up because it is a completely different set
Speaker 1: of muscles that get engaged in the in your foot
Speaker 1: right right um. Part of this debate also gets into
Speaker 1: whether or not it's more bodily economical um in terms
Speaker 1: of your oxygen and calorie usage to to run um
Speaker 1: barefoot or not, and that also has to do more
Speaker 1: with where the foot is striking than anything else, and
Speaker 1: research also disagrees on whether or not for foot versus
Speaker 1: hind foot striking is is going to do that thing?
Speaker 1: Um and and even pro nation, which is a thing
Speaker 1: that people have been talking about. Prenation is how much
Speaker 1: your foot rolls when you land and um and or
Speaker 1: I guess when you land and then uplift again. It's
Speaker 1: basically your whole stride cycle from where you impact the
Speaker 1: ground to leave the ground. But it's a it's a
Speaker 1: side to side role more than a front to back
Speaker 1: roll and um and and and even that you know,
Speaker 1: which we have been taught for years that you know
Speaker 1: if you over pronate or under pronate, that you need
Speaker 1: special shoes. Science is like a my personal experience is
Speaker 1: not a but but again, I'm a pronator. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I will say uh, for any boy that runs, if
Speaker 1: you've never been fitted for running shoes, that is a
Speaker 1: fabulous technological adventure because they will literally like put you
Speaker 1: good places that do it, and running shoe stores will
Speaker 1: often have this tech on hand and they'll do it,
Speaker 1: and they'll put you on a treadmill and videotape you
Speaker 1: and then they'll still step through that and show you
Speaker 1: where your foot is moving at every portion of your
Speaker 1: stride and then they'll put you on a balance board
Speaker 1: to see where your body weight naturally distributes anyway, and
Speaker 1: you get to see a beautiful readout display of the
Speaker 1: hotspots where you're heaviest on your feet, and then they
Speaker 1: will help you select shoes and for me that made
Speaker 1: a big difference. Um, but again, your mileage may vary,
Speaker 1: as with anything involving fitness, it's these these results are
Speaker 1: not reproducible in laboratory settings, I think, is the official line.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, and part of that, I think is
Speaker 1: you would have to monitor the subjects for years and
Speaker 1: years and years, which is part of, yes, the problem,
Speaker 1: and that no one has a Framingham heart study of
Speaker 1: of running a lot. Yeah, especially you would have to
Speaker 1: get runners just as they're starting to get into running
Speaker 1: and five years later and ten years later, and how
Speaker 1: their injuries have or have not happened, which is great.
Speaker 1: Somebody do that study. I'll read it in ten years
Speaker 1: when you're done. Okay, So I want to talk about
Speaker 1: one more controversial frontier. What no, I'm I'm excited about controversy.
Speaker 1: Have you all heard of the drugs? The drugs, the drugs.
Speaker 1: Someone in the corner the other day was telling me
Speaker 1: about those. Yeah, sometimes drugs can help you get better
Speaker 1: gains in exercise, but obviously most or all of these
Speaker 1: drugs come with bad side effects that are worse than
Speaker 1: the gains you get in your performance. And the question is,
Speaker 1: are there any drugs that are basically innocuous enough and
Speaker 1: helpful enough to be on the whole good for your health? Actually,
Speaker 1: I think I think caffeine is maybe something that most
Speaker 1: people could agree is generally okay for boosting your your
Speaker 1: performance a little bit. Yeah, you will be able to
Speaker 1: go a little longer, um, push a little harder. In
Speaker 1: terms of percentage, I don't have an exact number, but
Speaker 1: it's not crazy. We should it's a single digit. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we should absolutely preface this discussion by saying
Speaker 1: we are not doctors, we are not health professionals, and
Speaker 1: we are absolutely not making recommendations. No, no, before you,
Speaker 1: before you make any dietary or certainly drug related change
Speaker 1: to your to your self, your whole regiment. Right, had
Speaker 1: a pro in the mix to talk to a physician,
Speaker 1: a nutritionist, a priest, whatever you need to do. Um
Speaker 1: and uh no, no, but but but the caffeine has
Speaker 1: been found it has not been found to improve your
Speaker 1: your oxygen capacity, but right, like Holly was saying, it can.
Speaker 1: It can let you to train a greater power um
Speaker 1: and or for longer. It also doesn't have an effect
Speaker 1: on maximal strength, but can increase your endurance or resistance
Speaker 1: to fatigue. So, um, that's why my endurance is so good.
Speaker 1: I drink like tank cups of coffee a day. She does,
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I think you meant awesome. We all misspeak.
Speaker 1: It's fine. Um but uh and and it's also been
Speaker 1: it also has not been shown to have a significant
Speaker 1: de dehydration effect on athletes. So because usually you're guzzling yeah, right,
Speaker 1: as long as you are in taking enough water, which
Speaker 1: is really important and you should do anyway, Um, then
Speaker 1: you should be totally fine. Um. And And furthermore, the
Speaker 1: amounts that most athletes would take are not at the
Speaker 1: range that people would start talking about doping and that
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, it's all doping, but it's it's
Speaker 1: not the kind of thing that the Olympics committee would
Speaker 1: have to get into. Well, they even sell for endurance athletes.
Speaker 1: You know, you will often buy little gels or goo
Speaker 1: or some sor whatever food pack that you will have
Speaker 1: like at some point during your long distance training or races.
Speaker 1: And they even make jelly. Belly actually makes these things
Speaker 1: called sport beans that have like your electrolytes and you know,
Speaker 1: you get a sugar boost, and they actually do make
Speaker 1: a caffeinated version of them for runners. They Bertie Bots
Speaker 1: has not told me anything about this. This is the
Speaker 1: sport beings of the sport. But I always have some
Speaker 1: sport beans for a race because I like them because
Speaker 1: they're easy to handle, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: there's and they sound less gross than the gel packs.
Speaker 1: The gel packs are pretty gread. I can't stomach the
Speaker 1: gel packs. Okay, So y'all seem to basically be saying that,
Speaker 1: as far as you're aware that there aren't any major
Speaker 1: medical risks to using caffeine to enhance your workout, somewhat
Speaker 1: not at the level that you would want to use
Speaker 1: caffeine at. I think, like anything, if you and and
Speaker 1: and you know and clearly something like straight caffeine is
Speaker 1: more effective than drinking a cup of coffee or whatever.
Speaker 1: But um, but yeah, I mean I think that you
Speaker 1: would have to consume way more of it than you
Speaker 1: would want to to really have a negative effect. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's go to the other end of the spectrum and
Speaker 1: talk about some stuff that I think the verdict is
Speaker 1: in on and they say you really shouldn't use these.
Speaker 1: How about anabolic steroids. Oh, I had a bunch for lunch.
Speaker 1: I think I would not. Uh, yeah, I know those
Speaker 1: are bad kids. Well if sometimes they can be prescribed
Speaker 1: for medical reason, well, absolutely, and and steroids are actually
Speaker 1: extremely useful in um people who have again those diseases
Speaker 1: in the arthritis and rheumatism kind of categories for helping
Speaker 1: your joints. Um, it's an anti inflammatory, so it's it's
Speaker 1: going to help all of your your bones and joints
Speaker 1: work more smoothly, and um decrease inflammation in them, which
Speaker 1: is rad for everybody. Yeah. Um, but those are in extremely,
Speaker 1: extremely small and occasional amounts, and even those doses sometimes
Speaker 1: people have negative mood swings are not uncommon. Like with quartercourse,
Speaker 1: steroids are often prescribed for an inflammatory issue. UM. So
Speaker 1: even in the small amounts that aren't maybe physically dangerous
Speaker 1: in anyway, there's still some negativity to them. So once
Speaker 1: you get to the heavy hitter dosages that we're discussing
Speaker 1: or about too. I think, uh, you're really looking at
Speaker 1: some danger zones. Yeah, I've got a list of risks
Speaker 1: associated with anabolic steroids. Uh. In a in a little
Speaker 1: rundown by the Mayo Clinic, they say that some risks
Speaker 1: both men and women might experience severe acne um, risk
Speaker 1: of tendonitis or tendon rupture, problems with your liver or tumors. Uh.
Speaker 1: Basically putting your cholesterol levels exactly the opposite of where
Speaker 1: you want them. So increasing the bad cholesterol and decreasing
Speaker 1: the good. UM. Cardiovascular problems UM, high blood pressure definitely,
Speaker 1: hypertension UM, and aggression uh, as well as we don't
Speaker 1: need you any more aggressive. Job pretty Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: I scare people sometimes. So steroids have two basic effects
Speaker 1: on the body. You've got the antabolic effects, which promote
Speaker 1: the muscle building and are going to affect your your
Speaker 1: cardiovascular system and all that kind of fun stuff. And
Speaker 1: then you've got the androgenic effects, which are affecting uh,
Speaker 1: sexual characteristics and depending on how your chromosomes lay out
Speaker 1: and so for for example, men can develop prominent breasts
Speaker 1: or shrink and testicles or infertility or impotents. Women can
Speaker 1: develop deeper voices, enlarged torus is, increased body hair, also baldness.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, unfun times super delightful side effects generally
Speaker 1: not so much for most. I mean you might be
Speaker 1: into that I and I absolutely do not want to
Speaker 1: pass any kind of character judgment. But most people do
Speaker 1: not want those things. I don't think that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the juries in do not take annibolic steroids unless they've
Speaker 1: by your doctor. Cent really a huge news flag. Um
Speaker 1: what about have you all heard of creatine? Oh? Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: your body makes it naturally, so it has to be
Speaker 1: good for you as much as possible. Sell it in
Speaker 1: health food store. Should should Okay, so this is another Uh,
Speaker 1: this is sort of the middle of the road, right,
Speaker 1: this is an anabolic steroids. It's not something that that's
Speaker 1: this big scary thing. Okay. So so what creatin does
Speaker 1: in your body? I believe is it it helps your
Speaker 1: muscles make more a t P. Which is a really
Speaker 1: long word, t's it's it's it's stuff what stores and
Speaker 1: transports energy in yourselves? Yea at dinner scene triphosphate excellent. Cool.
Speaker 1: Your powers of reading are stronger than mine, Joe, thank you? Um,
Speaker 1: and so so sometimes because he's been hitting the creatine,
Speaker 1: he's really at the ready. So so people will take
Speaker 1: it to provide themselves with with bursts of energy for
Speaker 1: say like weightlifting or or other. Usually I think it's
Speaker 1: strength intensive. Yeah, folks who I don't know many endurance
Speaker 1: people that have even ever discussed it, right. Usually when
Speaker 1: I have heard it mentioned, it's amongst my friends that
Speaker 1: are really going for strength gains. Yeah, it is. It
Speaker 1: is naturally you you in take it through things like
Speaker 1: like meat and and other proteins and um, and your
Speaker 1: your your body, your liver produces it naturally. And we'll
Speaker 1: also get rid of any excess, which I think is
Speaker 1: above kidneys. Yes, yes, yeah, above like two grams per
Speaker 1: day is what your body is Like, that's enough, guys. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so because this is one of the things that
Speaker 1: your kidneys have to get rid of is that you know,
Speaker 1: you pee it out you if you take too much
Speaker 1: of it, this can put you at risk for problems
Speaker 1: with your kidneys and potentially with your liver too. Um.
Speaker 1: And so that's a potential risk. But this is another
Speaker 1: thing where it seems to be somewhere in the middle. Um,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like it's just this obvious, big no no.
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if we could say it's clear
Speaker 1: that the benefits outweigh the cost, so it's probably best
Speaker 1: to just talk to your doctor about it, right, especially
Speaker 1: since some of those costs can decrease your athletic performance,
Speaker 1: you know, by giving you stomach and muscle cramps, nausea, diarrhea,
Speaker 1: and weight game. But in addition to those, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, basically the jury is out on and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes literally on on what larger doses of this can do.
Speaker 1: There have been a bunch of lawsuits recently about you know,
Speaker 1: people have had very adverse effects and have sued some
Speaker 1: of the companies that create some of the supplements. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there well, there seems to be there's apparently a
Speaker 1: link between UM creating supplements and alleged resulting kidney failure.
Speaker 1: I think this is not fully understood yet. UM and
Speaker 1: we and the thing is, we apparently don't know the
Speaker 1: long term effects of using supplements. It's like these and
Speaker 1: especially the danger would probably be in using large amounts
Speaker 1: of them. But in any case, it's definitely something that
Speaker 1: again you would want to talk to your doctor before using,
Speaker 1: and especially certainly in large doses. Yeah, yeah, did you
Speaker 1: have did you have any others? Any other exciting another
Speaker 1: interesting one, Um, if y'all heard of a drug called
Speaker 1: mo daphanel, it rings a bell, but I couldn't pro
Speaker 1: vigil that make you extra vigilant, basically, Yeah, it's so
Speaker 1: you can read about this drug all over the web,
Speaker 1: and they're the web is full of maybe some of
Speaker 1: those kind of creepy people, but but you know, people
Speaker 1: who are judgmental. See I was going to say, no,
Speaker 1: not online never, so some some bio hacker types, people
Speaker 1: who are interested in messing with their bodies to see
Speaker 1: what they can do. And so this drug originally was
Speaker 1: designed that the generic term is modaphanel, and it was
Speaker 1: a psycho stimulant designed to treat anarcolepsy and sleep disorders. Um,
Speaker 1: but what ended up happening is that people started discovering apparently.
Speaker 1: And I haven't used this drug or anything like, so
Speaker 1: I can't comment from personal experience. People report that it
Speaker 1: has benefits apart from, uh, just helping with the sleep disorders.
Speaker 1: People in fact treat it like a kind of life
Speaker 1: enhancing drug, so they claim that they use it to
Speaker 1: get all kinds of crazy work done that they couldn't
Speaker 1: get done otherwise, but without a lot of the negative
Speaker 1: side effects that you'd experienced from a traditional stimulant. UM. Again,
Speaker 1: we want to stress, do not take our our little
Speaker 1: story here and say, oh, I'm gonna go get some
Speaker 1: of that. Uh. This is something that uh definitely should
Speaker 1: be prescribed by a doctor UM if you're going to
Speaker 1: use it and it but it also apparently manifests in
Speaker 1: terms of gains in endurance with exercise. There was a
Speaker 1: two thousand four study UM called the Effects of Acute
Speaker 1: modefanitel Ingestion on exercise time to exhaustion. And what this
Speaker 1: found is that this drug, which apparently again they're these
Speaker 1: apocryphal reports are it's pretty safe, apparently without a lot
Speaker 1: of known side effects, UM causes people to get much
Speaker 1: better workouts before exhaustion. Like it it's sort of delays
Speaker 1: the onset of perceived exhaustion. People don't realize they're fatigued,
Speaker 1: so they can go farther, get more exercise, get a
Speaker 1: better workout each time, which has its upsides and downsides.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of I mean, I'm I'm and
Speaker 1: I think that Holly is pretty pretty with me on
Speaker 1: the crazy hippie stance of of you should do what's
Speaker 1: pretty natural for you when you're exercising. Um, you have
Speaker 1: to do it in that voice though, Um but uh,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people will say that, you know,
Speaker 1: if if you're your pain centers are what tell you
Speaker 1: when you are hurting yourself. And that sounds obvious, but
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of the Fitzbo kind of thing that
Speaker 1: happens if Fitsbo being fitspiration being that entire concept of
Speaker 1: pasting a photo up on your fridge of a fitness
Speaker 1: model with the saying like when it hurts, hit it harder,
Speaker 1: something like that. Um, And you know, of course, the
Speaker 1: hilarity being that fitness model is literally paid to look
Speaker 1: like that, and unless you are also literally paid to
Speaker 1: look like that, probably you're not gonna. Um, that might
Speaker 1: be retouched, and it might be retouched. Furthermore, you don't
Speaker 1: probably people you know, right, they probably kick puppies. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm reluctant to say yeah, because there is a level
Speaker 1: at which you know, you want to be comfortably uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: like you want to be pushing past absolutely comfort and
Speaker 1: delight to a belay where your body is challenged because
Speaker 1: that is how you make fitness gains exactly. Um, but
Speaker 1: there are people that take that to a very extreme
Speaker 1: level and kind of become really delighted in self abuse.
Speaker 1: And I think when you're talking about a drug that
Speaker 1: doesn't let you register where your body is actually at
Speaker 1: in terms of exhaustion, and that sounds like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like a recipe for potential just disaster. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's another perspective. But you really here is the
Speaker 1: subtext of Joe going hippies. No again, I am not
Speaker 1: recommending people use this drug. I just found it interesting
Speaker 1: and I'd like to read more research on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I'm curious, since it requires a doctor's prescription,
Speaker 1: how many doctors are willing to prescribe it for its
Speaker 1: AWF label use of this sort of life hack approach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was. Actually there was a New York magazine profile
Speaker 1: about modefanel use from this past spring, and it commented
Speaker 1: on how apparently, uh so, that the there was a
Speaker 1: great increase in use of this drug over the past decade,
Speaker 1: and what's estimated is that apparently most of this was
Speaker 1: for off label use. Yeah, there probably was not a
Speaker 1: correlating increase in cases of circles in New York. I
Speaker 1: would I would hope not. If if there were, then
Speaker 1: I really want to run some social factors on what
Speaker 1: was causing UM. Alright, so we've talked about a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff that you shouldn't do for exercise. Is there
Speaker 1: anything that people can do safely that we want to Actually,
Speaker 1: I mean, as much as we're not doctors, we were
Speaker 1: not fitness professionals, we can't make actual, literal medical recommendations
Speaker 1: to you. I mean up to up to an including like, um,
Speaker 1: don't use weight loss pills and electric shock belts, y'all.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of crazy stuff on the internet. People are trying to
Speaker 1: sell you about how to get fit and lose weight.
Speaker 1: And you know, I hate to say this because I'm
Speaker 1: sure this will cut out some some totally decent stuff too,
Speaker 1: but just in general, if it's on an ad it
Speaker 1: doesn't work, don't don't look at it. It's just going
Speaker 1: to stuff. Yeah. Yeah, anything being sold to you in
Speaker 1: an infomercial, UM, anything very expensive or overly complicated is
Speaker 1: probably just that it's probably a gimmick, and you know,
Speaker 1: being used to sell something rather than to actually make
Speaker 1: people more fit. One weird trick, well, those come up
Speaker 1: on the Internet all the time, and specifically on social media.
Speaker 1: The the one thing that gets rid of belly fat
Speaker 1: and they want you to click through and yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and I can tell you what the one giving them money.
Speaker 1: The one weird thing that gets rid of belly fat
Speaker 1: is eating less and exercising more. And I know that
Speaker 1: that information sucks. I know that nobody wants to hear
Speaker 1: that you have to eat fewer calories and burn more
Speaker 1: calories in order to lose weight. But that's basically what
Speaker 1: it is, you guys, And you know, like, like I said,
Speaker 1: Holly and I are kind of hippies. I personally recommend
Speaker 1: working out with mostly your own body weight as the resistance.
Speaker 1: I'm really into that kind of thing. I think. I
Speaker 1: think it's great to use less equipment that you're you're
Speaker 1: cutting out potential for injury and overwork if you do. UM.
Speaker 1: But I like weight training body weight to you, but
Speaker 1: some weight training, I mean, it depends on what what
Speaker 1: effects you're trying to get. Um. You know, the downside
Speaker 1: of course to resistance training is that you will only
Speaker 1: ever have as much weight to work with as you
Speaker 1: carry on your body, which can be a downside if
Speaker 1: you want to get if you want to lift more
Speaker 1: than your body weight. Um, what if I want to
Speaker 1: lift a refrigerator, I need to practice with a refrigerator. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've we've learned some things here. We've got some good stuff.
Speaker 1: We've got social reinforcement is good. You've got gamification is good.
Speaker 1: You've got textile science advances. Use your wicking materials, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got Uh, we've got a debate that's probably not
Speaker 1: settled about what you should do with your feet. But
Speaker 1: I guess do what works for you. Basically, do what
Speaker 1: works for you is really good advice for that one. Um,
Speaker 1: we've got a strange discussion about drugs. The generally, I
Speaker 1: just say, the best recommendation is probably avoided and less
Speaker 1: for some reason, your doctor tells you to take some
Speaker 1: kind of drug, and make sure that's a real doctor,
Speaker 1: not like a duck that you doctor doctor voice right now?
Speaker 1: No not uh? And and yeah you know like like
Speaker 1: like reward yourself, Um, not not with food. If you
Speaker 1: are trying to lose weight, that can be less than effective.
Speaker 1: Cut yourself slack. I mean, you know, like like Holly said,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's easy to get into a pattern of not
Speaker 1: working out. But if you miss a couple, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it stressing yourself out as the opposite of the point. Um,
Speaker 1: my horse, it's fine, you know you can. You can
Speaker 1: help yourself be on the horse with with by writing
Speaker 1: down your hands and tracking them. Fitness fitness trackers can
Speaker 1: help with that. Um, do a little bit here and
Speaker 1: there rather than really stressing yourself out about doing all
Speaker 1: the exercise at a prescribed time every day. Uh and yeah,
Speaker 1: do it with friends, have fun doing it. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: sounds so easy. But we'll all be fit and able
Speaker 1: to run marathons in the future, in the incredible future. Well,
Speaker 1: if you want to join us there, I think this
Speaker 1: pretty much wraps it up. Yeah yeah, so so yeah.
Speaker 1: So you can go to forward thinking dot com. Um
Speaker 1: that is where you can find all of our other
Speaker 1: audio episodes, videos, blog posts. You can let us know
Speaker 1: what you thought of this very podcast and um yeah,
Speaker 1: also also on Twitter and the facebooks where you can
Speaker 1: find us forward Thinking and we will talk to you
Speaker 1: again really soon for more on this topic and the
Speaker 1: future of technology. Can visit forward thinking dot com AH
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