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Speaker 1: What You're about to hear is an episode of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Grease podcast called Confessions of a Former Outlaw. I'm

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Speaker 1: including it here on the Meat Eater podcast feed for

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Speaker 1: a couple different reasons. Reason number one is because it

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Speaker 1: is so damn good and interesting, and also because the

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Speaker 1: man you're going to be hearing from is like no

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Speaker 1: one else on this planet. The second reason I'm including

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Speaker 1: it here is because this episode was given Clay a

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Speaker 1: lot of consternation.

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Speaker 2: It was giving him fits.

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Speaker 1: He was scared of doing this show. He was scared

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Speaker 1: of doing the show because he was afraid of people

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Speaker 1: thinking that he was glorifying a poacher or an outlaw,

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Speaker 1: when in fact, you're going to hear a story about

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Speaker 1: redemption and to Clay was nervous about putting a spotlight

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Speaker 1: on this individual you're going to be hearing from. He

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Speaker 1: sent me the episod, so I listened to it, and

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Speaker 1: I told him, Man, there is no way you can

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Speaker 1: can this episode.

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Speaker 3: Dude.

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Speaker 1: You have to run with this show. And I believed

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Speaker 1: in it so much I wanted them to put it

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Speaker 1: right here so that as many people as possible.

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Speaker 3: Could hear it.

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Speaker 1: So check it out if you like what you're hearing,

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Speaker 1: make sure to subscribe to the Bear Grease podcast feed

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Speaker 1: and enjoy.

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Speaker 4: I had it explained to me one time by a

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Speaker 4: judge in court, not hunting seems like I'd killed a

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Speaker 4: turkey during the wrong dates and times. He said, why

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Speaker 4: did you do this? I said, Well, where I'm from,

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Speaker 4: when your tomatoes get right, you pick them. When your

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Speaker 4: potatoes get right, you dig them. When your turkeys are right,

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Speaker 4: you go get you on. Yeah. But he said, that's

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Speaker 4: not the way we do it. You have laws that

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Speaker 4: govern when you kill them and when you can. He

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Speaker 4: explained that to me.

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Speaker 5: I traveled a couple of hours south and slightly west

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Speaker 5: from my home on Wednesday, March twenty sixth, twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: five to meet with a man who I was told

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Speaker 5: might be the most interesting man in Lafleur County, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 5: I hardly knew anything about him, and oddly though I

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Speaker 5: talked to people for a living while I was in

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Speaker 5: my truck, and when I got within about two miles

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Speaker 5: of his cabin, I started to get nervous. He was

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Speaker 5: described to me as a kind man, loved by those

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Speaker 5: who know him, but with a checkered past and an

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Speaker 5: uncanny expertise in wild turkeys. Why he'd agreed to talk

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Speaker 5: with me. I wasn't sure, and I began to doubt

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Speaker 5: why I had agreed to come. This is real rural America,

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Speaker 5: not the curated version that I sometimes like to talk about.

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Speaker 5: This one has addiction, illegal hunting, in broken relationships. But

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Speaker 5: I had no idea I'd be impacted so much. This

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Speaker 5: is an unusual bear Grease, dark at times, funny at others,

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Speaker 5: but I was surprised at the arc of redemption. You'll

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Speaker 5: have to forgive me because I'm still sorting out the details,

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Speaker 5: but I'd like to share with you the confessions of

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Speaker 5: this former outlaw. I really doubt that you're going to

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Speaker 5: want to miss this one. My name is Klay Nukem,

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Speaker 5: and this is the Bear Grease podcast, where we'll explore

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Speaker 5: things forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places,

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Speaker 5: and where we'll tell the story of Americans who live

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Speaker 5: their lives close to the land. Presented by FHF Gear,

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Speaker 5: American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear. It's designed

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Speaker 5: to be as rugged as the places we explored.

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Speaker 4: I had a friend, and people that hunt know when

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Speaker 4: Ben Rogers Lee being Lee World champion caller, hunter good

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Speaker 4: friend being got killed in a vehicle accident. He was

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Speaker 4: at my turkey camp we hunted the first part of season,

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Speaker 4: and he tried to give me to quit and go

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Speaker 4: with him to Alabama. He said, you like this game,

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Speaker 4: You're good at it. I see it in you. I

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Speaker 4: see potential in you. You need to quit what you're

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Speaker 4: doing and go with me. And I, ah, may you

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Speaker 4: famous and me rich. And I said, no, I can't quit. Well,

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Speaker 4: a god, I got a good job, good family, got cattle.

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Speaker 4: I can't do that.

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Speaker 5: This is the voice of Johnny Johnston. You've probably never

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Speaker 5: heard of him, but I doubt that you'll forget him.

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Speaker 5: On the walk from the truck to the door of

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Speaker 5: his cabin, I estimated there to be no less than

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Speaker 5: twelve well taken care of hunting dogs scattered within sight, beagles,

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Speaker 5: running walkers, and bird dogs. To Johnny, being called a

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Speaker 5: hillbilly is a term of endearment, and he identifies as one,

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Speaker 5: and by his definition, the highest ranking qualification has nothing

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Speaker 5: to do with hounds or overalls.

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Speaker 2: But it's not being superficial.

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Speaker 5: This story is about Johnny's life and we'll learn some

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Speaker 5: foundational stuff that started on this hunt with ben.

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Speaker 4: Lee, so he left. I stayed, continued to hunt. Hunt

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Speaker 4: was over, and just saying that I was going to

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Speaker 4: go out west in Turkey hunt. And I had a

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Speaker 4: gun and some stuff at Octavia friend of mine's house,

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Speaker 4: and I was supposed to have been there to go

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Speaker 4: out my stuff, and I never showed up. So we

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Speaker 4: came up for me and found me. I'd flipped my

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Speaker 4: geep over, broke my neck, broke my back, cut my

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Speaker 4: left ear off, crushed the foot bungerie, critical condition. Well.

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Speaker 4: They loaded me in the back of a Bronco and

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Speaker 4: took me to the hospital and my wife was there

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Speaker 4: pretty upset. I don't remember any of it. There was

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Speaker 4: some drinking involved. There is something to that drinking and driving.

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Speaker 4: Because since I've quit drinking fifteen years straight, hundred and

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Speaker 4: nineteen days ago, I had not a ruck.

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Speaker 5: When people know to the day how long they've been sober,

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Speaker 5: the days prior to that were probably tough. Johnny is

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Speaker 5: from the small town of heaven Or, Oklahoma. He was

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Speaker 5: born in nineteen forty nine. He's seventy five years old.

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Speaker 5: He's been married to the same woman for fifty five years.

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Speaker 5: He's of average height. He has a wiry build with

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Speaker 5: dark eyes that squint tight when he smiles. We're inside

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Speaker 5: of his small white cabin with interior walls of rough

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Speaker 5: san oak turkey beards hanging wads from deer antlers like

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Speaker 5: clusters of grapes. Every single beard has a tag attached

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Speaker 5: to it. There's no cell service here, but he doesn't

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Speaker 5: on a cell phone or a computer. He never has.

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Speaker 5: Let's get back to the hospital. This wreck sounds really bad.

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Speaker 4: But I was telling her they would fix me the

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Speaker 4: best they could right then, and they could later come

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Speaker 4: back and fix my ear. And I said, oh, I

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Speaker 4: forgot to tell you. My ear is in the right

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Speaker 4: front pocket of my cameouflage.

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Speaker 3: You told him that.

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Speaker 4: I told a doctor that on the gardener going into surgery,

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Speaker 4: and he said, go look at his clothes and see

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Speaker 4: of you who find an ear. And a nurse came

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Speaker 4: running down the hall and said, I've got a are

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Speaker 4: and so to my ear. And he said, well, we'll

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Speaker 4: do the best we can. And I ried up again

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Speaker 4: and said, I it's all I own backwards where I

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Speaker 4: heard them turkeys walking behind me.

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Speaker 5: That story tips us off to two things. How Central

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Speaker 5: wild turkeys have been in his life and that he

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Speaker 5: is a character. This whole story is about Johnny's life,

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Speaker 5: some of it very personal, but I'm interested in his

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Speaker 5: relationship with the law as it relates to wild turkeys.

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Speaker 5: People's relationship to the law is helpful in understanding our society,

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Speaker 5: not the one we think we have, but the one

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Speaker 5: we actually do have. Johnny is a rare find, willing

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Speaker 5: to be vulnerable. When a stranger showed up me and

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Speaker 5: asked about some of the darkest times of his life,

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Speaker 5: I think we should start off with that credit to

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Speaker 5: his ledger. In the last three years, no less than

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Speaker 5: half a dozen people have emphatically told me that I

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Speaker 5: needed to come here to Johnny's, including a game warden,

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Speaker 5: but nobody could really articulate why. There's a lot I

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Speaker 5: don't know about Johnny. So I'm going to begin with

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Speaker 5: a question about his friendship to a particularly famous turkey hunter.

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Speaker 2: You may have heard of him.

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Speaker 5: Tell me about your relationship with Ben Lee.

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Speaker 4: He is a super nice guy. Beg man walking, this hooting,

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Speaker 4: this yapp, and this human I overfow. He went from

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Speaker 4: daylight's dark, charged them turkey. He knew turkeys, he knew

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Speaker 4: how to hunt, He had a call company made call.

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Speaker 4: He was just a good, good fellow. I liked him.

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Speaker 4: He just had away with people.

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Speaker 3: Now, how did you meet him?

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Speaker 4: Through a friend of mine hunting down there and I

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Speaker 4: told him where they could find some turkeys, and they

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Speaker 4: went there and hunted, and he said, I want to

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Speaker 4: meet this guy told us about this spot where the

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Speaker 4: turkey dore and I tell many. He invited me up

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Speaker 4: there to talk, and we just went hunting and killed

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Speaker 4: a turkey and hit it all. He calmed down and

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Speaker 4: camped with me. Ever spurring after that.

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Speaker 5: This story isn't about Ben Rogers Lee, but his connection

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Speaker 5: to Johnny is beyond interesting. Ben was from Jackson, Alabama,

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Speaker 5: and has been referred to as the father of modern

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Speaker 5: turkey hunting.

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Speaker 2: He started his.

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Speaker 5: Call company, ben Lee Calls in nineteen seventy and made

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Speaker 5: a flurry of instructional tapes, videos, seminars, and won five

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Speaker 5: turkey calling World Championships. He was a Southern style storyteller

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Speaker 5: and was one of the great communicators of American turkey hunting.

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Speaker 5: Here's a clip of Ben Lee.

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Speaker 3: Sitting out there and he moved. She's laid aqueedge.

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Speaker 4: You know. He gets up there in the morning at

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Speaker 4: four o'clock, you know, and old Ale well Hell waits

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Speaker 4: him up to Hell Boy, he at his walk.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's just ready for everything.

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Speaker 4: To have my son instructuring. No tapes were a big

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Speaker 4: then turkey hunting was just getting going. Mouth called, we're

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Speaker 4: just coming out my old turkey hunting friends. One that

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Speaker 4: I hunted with used a gold horn and a piece

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Speaker 4: of slate. Now I excited. Could you get on the

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Speaker 4: gold horn? They clucked a couple of times and three

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Speaker 4: soft yeps and put it down, And that was completely

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Speaker 4: reverse way being legal. Honey. He never shut up. He

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Speaker 4: walked calling turkey gobbled. He didn't die in a brush ball.

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Speaker 4: He'd started to at turkey, calling and walking to it,

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Speaker 4: and he'd get right on him and put some turkey

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Speaker 4: stuff to him. Well, he told me one time, he said,

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Speaker 4: you like this game, but you got to keep in mind,

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Speaker 4: if you hunt these turkeys like they need to be hunting,

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Speaker 4: you won't have no friends, your family be mad at you,

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Speaker 4: you'll probably lose your job. He went on and on

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Speaker 4: about all bad things that can happen to you. I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I can't be that bad. He said, I'm talking about

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Speaker 4: if you really hunt turkey. Now there's people that turkey

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Speaker 4: hunt and there's people that really hunt them.

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Speaker 2: I get the feeding.

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Speaker 5: Johnny is one of those turkey hunters that really hunts them,

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Speaker 5: and that these hanging tagged beards aren't the only turkeys.

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Speaker 2: This man is killed.

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Speaker 5: His friendship with Ben Lee is going to lead us

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Speaker 5: right into something critical.

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Speaker 3: Did you know him personally very well? Like was he married?

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Speaker 3: Did he have a family?

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Speaker 4: He had been married thirteen times?

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Speaker 3: Are you serious?

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Speaker 4: I'm serious, That's what he told me. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: all his wives. I knew shovel, but he said, if

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Speaker 4: you really hunt him, Turkey's right. That's when he said

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Speaker 4: about the family and your job and all that.

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Speaker 3: He was speaking from experience, from experience, y'all. Was he was?

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Speaker 3: He kind of an outlaw?

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Speaker 4: Sort of would you say? Was I hate the category people?

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Speaker 4: But yeah, he's kind of like myself.

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Speaker 5: Interesting, he was kind of like myself, he said, an outlaw.

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Speaker 5: I'd heard this about Johnny and Ben, but I didn't

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Speaker 5: know for sure about Johnny. I kind of put him

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Speaker 5: on the spot, and he was hesitant to categorize his

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Speaker 5: old friend in this way. But Johnny kind of tells

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Speaker 5: stuff the way it is But again, this story isn't

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Speaker 5: about Ben Lee, who passed away in a car accident

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Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety one at the age of forty six.

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Speaker 5: The story is about Johnny Johnston. And as you may know,

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Speaker 5: I have a lot of respect for people willing to

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Speaker 5: be honest about their past. I've often found people like

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Speaker 5: Johnny to be more honest than people with less visible

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Speaker 5: issues lurking in their past. And I know that people

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Speaker 5: like Johnny are usually cut from a different cloth. In

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Speaker 5: this next question, I cut right to the chase, and

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Speaker 5: you'll hear the nervousness in my.

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Speaker 3: Voice was with you. Did you.

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Speaker 5: Did you ever have any did the law ever mean

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Speaker 5: anything to you?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Why wouldn't it because most people it does.

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Speaker 4: The law itself? Or you mean a turkey law? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: when turkey's gobbled on hunting them.

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Speaker 3: Just you just weren't afraid of getting in trouble.

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Speaker 4: No, never crossed my mom. I had it explained to

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Speaker 4: me one time by a judge in court. Not hunting

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Speaker 4: seems like I had killed a turkey during the wrong

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Speaker 4: dates and times. He said, why did you do do?

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Speaker 4: I said, well, where I'm from, when your tomatoes get right,

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Speaker 4: you pickle when your potatoes get right, you dig them.

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Speaker 4: When your turkey, we'll get you on. Yeah, but he

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Speaker 4: said that's not the way we do it. You have

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Speaker 4: laws that govern when you and kill them and when

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Speaker 4: you can. He explained that to him.

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Speaker 5: Me, Americans are intrigued by people willing to break the

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Speaker 5: law period.

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Speaker 2: If you need.

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Speaker 5: Convincing, just look at the top movies, podcasts, and books

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Speaker 5: we read. Heck, look at the top Bear Grease podcast.

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Speaker 5: But I'm still trying to understand why. I think examinations

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Speaker 5: of extremes help calibrate society in some tribal primitive way,

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Speaker 5: almost like we get the signal for normal by bouncing

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Speaker 5: off the outliers. But there's no debate about it. What's

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Speaker 5: ironic is that we are a society of rule followers.

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Speaker 5: If our civilization gets smashed by a comment and archaeologists

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Speaker 5: dig it up and start making conclusions about us, they'll

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Speaker 5: find that this country was built on law and order.

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Speaker 5: The vast majority of people who come to a stop

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Speaker 5: sign in the middle of the night, even though they

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Speaker 5: know that no one is watching, they're gonna stop, I

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Speaker 5: mean at least a rolling stop, And in many places

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Speaker 5: of the world they wouldn't at all, even when they

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Speaker 5: know people are watching. Americans are rule followers, despite the independent,

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Speaker 5: liberty aholic, brash exterior. But the outliers are worth examination,

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Speaker 5: and Johnny was an outlier when it came to wildlife law.

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Speaker 5: We need to know more about his past. Now, let

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Speaker 5: me this is kind of a personal question. But would

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Speaker 5: your parents have raised you to just obey the law?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just like in general. Yeah, you would have known

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Speaker 5: can't steal or you can't.

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Speaker 4: Oh. My folks were about the book all the way.

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Speaker 5: Well, how did you get from that to being willing

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Speaker 5: to break the law?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, just getting in the world and not

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Speaker 4: really caring, just doing pretty much what I wanted to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Now, did you ever really get in trouble? Did you

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Speaker 5: ever get caught, like killing the legal turkey?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I just didn't ever give it a whole lot

288
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Speaker 4: of thought when turkeys are goblin, I just went hunt.

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Speaker 5: Stories like this can make people feel uncomfortable, especially people

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Speaker 5: that love wildlife and conservation and talk about it a lot.

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Speaker 2: But this is.

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Speaker 5: Part of the rural America that I grew up around.

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Speaker 5: Turkey laws were often seen as mere suggestions. This next

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Speaker 5: story is about the man who taught Johnny to turkey

295
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Speaker 5: hunt and the first time they got caught.

296
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Speaker 4: I can't talk about turkeys with talking about my old friend,

297
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Speaker 4: the man that taught me out of turkey hunt superman. Yeah,

298
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Speaker 4: we've been caught. He lived at Tallahaney, Oklahoma, and I'm

299
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Speaker 4: calling his name. He's dead and gone now and he's

300
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Speaker 4: respected by every turkey hunter or that part of the world.

301
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Speaker 4: Wayne caught turkey killing. This man I've ever met, I

302
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Speaker 4: have ever known, and I knew that he hunted a

303
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Speaker 4: law back when I started. I didn't even know him.

304
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Speaker 4: I went he was horseman, had a good racehorse, stood

305
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Speaker 4: a racehorse stallion, and I was kind of a horseman

306
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Speaker 4: back in the day. And that's how I knew him.

307
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Speaker 4: I looked him up and got acquainted with him, and

308
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Speaker 4: I said, here's what I want. I want you to

309
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Speaker 4: teach me how to turkey hunt. No old board, I

310
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Speaker 4: want to know it all. Well, he said, next spring,

311
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Speaker 4: you'll just have to come over here, we'll go. I said,

312
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Speaker 4: when he said, oh, first of March, had a good time.

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Speaker 5: If you're a turkey hunter, you'll know that ninety eight

314
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Speaker 5: percent of American turkey seasons don't open in the first

315
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Speaker 5: of March. This was an invite to get an illegal

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Speaker 5: early start.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so first of March I went to day with

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Speaker 4: it and we hunted, and he was little I know

319
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Speaker 4: about a turkey, That old gentleman taught me. He was

320
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Speaker 4: slicking a snot on the door knob. He used a wingbone,

321
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Speaker 4: or a piece of cane, or a briar leaf or

322
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 4: a peach leaf later on in the year, or a

323
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 4: sleigh called very little, very light. You could be sitting

324
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Speaker 4: next to him and barely hear him call. But he

325
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 4: didn't call to a turkey unless he was seventy yards close.

326
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Speaker 4: He used the terrain, the lamb cover of darkness to

327
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Speaker 4: get to him. He said, there's no such thing as

328
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Speaker 4: working a turkey. People talked about working a turkey for

329
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Speaker 4: two hours. He said, that should never happen. If they're

330
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Speaker 4: right on that turkey, they're having killed in ten minutes.

331
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Speaker 4: One cluck, two clucks. That's not put your call up.

332
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Speaker 4: And he showed me some moves pretty slick. He's a

333
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 4: good guy, but he didn't pay a lot of attention

334
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Speaker 4: to season. When the turkey gobbled, he went. We were

335
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Speaker 4: one day in there behind his place, and two turkeys.

336
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Speaker 4: He give me the easy one and he took the

337
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Speaker 4: hard one further and we met back. We had two turkeys,

338
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Speaker 4: he said. We was walking back to the jeep and

339
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Speaker 4: one gobbled off in a little rough candy that in jurors.

340
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Speaker 4: Give me out turkey. I'm going gee. So I went

341
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Speaker 4: off down there. Nothing, couldn't do nothing with him. Watered

342
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Speaker 4: him around a couple of hours. Come back, went to

343
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Speaker 4: the gee. Well. He said, we've been caught. We may

344
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Speaker 4: we've been called well, he said, I've been caught. Game

345
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Speaker 4: boarders there when I got here, got a ticket. You've

346
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: got two tickets. Oh, that's the first time we had

347
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Speaker 4: ever been in any problem, and we hunted all time. Poor.

348
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Speaker 3: What did he tell the game boarding that you were

349
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Speaker 3: down there?

350
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Speaker 4: No, he wasn't ever told that. He said, I hurried

351
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Speaker 4: up and took the ticket because I know you was

352
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Speaker 4: going to shoot any minute.

353
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Speaker 5: This is where the story starts to get complicated.

354
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Speaker 2: It was back in the mid seventies.

355
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Speaker 5: It would be the start of about thirty years of

356
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Speaker 5: illegal turkey hunting for Johnny.

357
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Speaker 4: My dad used to get on to me a lot

358
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Speaker 4: or hunting too much.

359
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Speaker 5: Really, So your dad, oh yeah, knew that you were

360
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Speaker 5: illegally hunting.

361
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Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, he wouldn't do it.

362
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Speaker 3: What would he say to you?

363
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Speaker 4: I'd call him and asked for a ride somewhere, let

364
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Speaker 4: me out and picked me up at a certain time.

365
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Speaker 4: He knew what I was doing.

366
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Speaker 5: What would he say? Do you remember anything specific? Like

367
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 5: he was like, Johnny, this is bad. You're gonna get

368
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Speaker 5: in trouble.

369
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Speaker 4: You no better than now.

370
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Speaker 3: But he still helped you.

371
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, he would. He didn't like it, but he would.

372
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Has he ever had guns in the woods?

373
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Speaker 4: Oh? Man? Yeah, I had a couple of logs up here.

374
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Speaker 4: I'd put him in and I had a new shotgun

375
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Speaker 4: I'd very proud of, and I put it in there

376
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Speaker 4: in the wood raft. He'd just stopped shoot it all up.

377
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Speaker 3: So just like in a couple of days.

378
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, they just eat on it

379
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 4: and eat on it. So I'd get me a big

380
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 4: PVC and pipe put it in camp. And another time

381
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 4: or two I got a chuckle control burns. They caused

382
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 4: you some pugalty. I had a gun back over here

383
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Speaker 4: and I stay in here in the camper, And I

384
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: came in that day and took a nap, and I

385
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 4: got up you couldn't see for the smoke. I thought, crap,

386
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 4: I've got a browning shotgun and a log right in

387
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 4: there far, so I'll get it on my four wheeler

388
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 4: and I'll take off up very well. I'll come around

389
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 4: and if this people ever were bulldoders and fire lighters,

390
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: and I'll try to get around, and they're trying to stop.

391
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: Didn't burn your got out now. I got through them

392
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 4: and got to it. Boy, it's pretty smoky and it's

393
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 4: getting pretty cloth. And then another time, a funny little deal.

394
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 4: I got a chuckle out of hit a turkey and

395
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 4: a gun up here on the dead end road, and

396
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 4: I went back up there to get it. Later. Everything good,

397
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: Everything okay, And there was a bulldozer and a lottle

398
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 4: boy sitting there not ten foot from my turkey in

399
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 4: that gun. Well, but he run over that gun when

400
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: I unloaded that odure, but he didn't. He minced it

401
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: about that for yeah, and they were doing something and

402
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 4: we snuck around about the gun turkey and got out

403
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 4: of there.

404
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 5: This is some pretty serious outlawn. Illegal turkey hunters often

405
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 5: hit guns in the woods where they knew turkeys were close,

406
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 5: so they could drive to and from the spot without

407
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 5: a gun in the truck, making it almost impossible for

408
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 5: game wardens to pin them down. It might seem unusual

409
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 5: for us to be talking about this so openly, but

410
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 5: the reason he's so comfortable is that today Johnny doesn't

411
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 5: have anything to hide, because when he hit the bottom

412
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 5: fifteen years, three hundred and nineteen days ago, everything was

413
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 5: laid bare. That story is coming. I'd rather someone tell

414
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 5: it to me like it happened than try to sugarcoat it.

415
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 5: I think we need to fill in the gaps in

416
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 5: Johnny's history, though, I'm interested in his upbringing.

417
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: I was born in haven Or, Oklahoma, ordinary people. My

418
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: dad worked for the railroad. All my family worked for

419
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 4: the railroad. I grew up just a normal boy, playing sports,

420
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 4: and my dad quail hunted. Uh. I just went crazy

421
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: about it. I love it. That's what I do, that's

422
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: my law. And I played sports and rodeoed and was

423
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 4: raised on a horse, rode a horse to a ball practice,

424
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: and rode a horse everywhere I went swimming and everything.

425
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 4: And the hunting part of it, I just kind of

426
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 4: figured it out on my own. My dad deer hunted

427
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 4: a little bit, and he'd take me, and he gave

428
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 4: me a thirty thirty and I just started there hunt

429
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 4: and just talking to people and learning how to hunt

430
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 4: and doing it and learning from my mistakes. That's a

431
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 4: big thing. We can learning our lives by our mistakes.

432
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: I justliked life. I was raised in church, and I

433
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 4: don't know where I went wrong, but I liked the

434
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: world better. I did thank the hard way, and I

435
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 4: made a lot of bad choices. But I'm not that

436
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 4: way anymore.

437
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 2: I'm not that way anymore.

438
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: He said.

439
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 5: That's actually what all the people that told me about

440
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 5: Johnny said.

441
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: That's really why I'm here.

442
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 5: I want to learn more about Johnny's life.

443
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 4: One time, my mom made me go to college. When

444
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 4: I got out of school, I said, no, I don't go,

445
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 4: but here you're going. I had a hard time getting along.

446
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 4: I'd be late for class, drinking with a big part

447
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: of my lot. And they suggested that I take a

448
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 4: samastra off and kind of find myself well. In the

449
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 4: process of going to college at Talaquhaw fell in with

450
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 4: a band of hippies and I stayed on the Ellinoid's

451
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: River Bridge and the Freedo and for a samistra and

452
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 4: I got quite an education, and when I left there,

453
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 4: I went to go on a railroad and for the summer.

454
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 4: Then I was gonna go back to school straighten up,

455
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 4: and I never happened. I stayed with a railroad and

456
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 4: retired there.

457
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 5: Johnny started working for the railroad in nineteen seventy and

458
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 5: was a train engineer for decades. But the spring of

459
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy five was the first time that he ever

460
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 5: turkey hunted. This is when it all started.

461
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 4: It was around seventy five, started having a turkey on

462
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 4: and I didn't know anyone that had ever turkey on.

463
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 4: I didn't even know what a turkey call was. I

464
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 4: knew two older men and my dad told me that

465
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 4: they had killed turkeys, they had hunted them. So I

466
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 4: went and talked to them and they showed me a

467
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: few moves on a turkey call. And that April we

468
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 4: had a caesar and I got a call off mister

469
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 4: Phillips and I went up on the hill. We had

470
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 4: a cabin and I'd seen some turkeys there deer hunt.

471
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 4: And I went up on the hill and laying my

472
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: gun up against a tree and whacked a box and

473
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 4: the turkey gobbled and shot me, and I looked and

474
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 4: it running right at me, and I dropped my call

475
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: and shot the turkey and he run off. I was

476
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: the first encounter I had with a wild turkey, and

477
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 4: I was hooked right to him.

478
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 3: Did you get the turkey or to get away from him?

479
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 4: Oh? He got away, but I was walking around the

480
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 4: way he went looking for him, and I heard another

481
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 4: one goble and I called to him and he came,

482
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 4: and I've shot him and got him. So I'm a

483
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 4: turkey killer round and I've hunted them ever since, just

484
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 4: like they've done something to my mama. I've had the opportunity.

485
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: I hung with doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs. One of my

486
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 4: favorite people was the chief of the Cherokee Nation. He's

487
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 4: a good god. My mom was part Indian. I'm a

488
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: quarter but I like Indians. I've got a good spirit,

489
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: a good fee for the wood, water and the wind.

490
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: They like all that stuff. That may be part of

491
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: why I'm drawn to it. I don't know. I like them.

492
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: I respect turkeys. I got more respect for a turkey

493
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: gobbler than a lot of people. I'll promise you.

494
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 5: A statement like this coming from a confessed lawbreaker could

495
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 5: certainly ruffle your feathers. But I think what he's really

496
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 5: saying is that turkey hunting meant so much to him

497
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,959
Speaker 5: that he was willing to risk it all to hunt them.

498
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 5: But the functionalization of that passion was awry. There are

499
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 5: some things in life that seem to be built for temptation,

500
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 5: uniquely appealing but forbidden. In a goblin Turkey before season

501
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: has been the downfall of many a man. I've never

502
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 5: known a woman to be a turkey outlaw, and if

503
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 5: you've listened to me enough, you know that I pray

504
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: that this story in no way glorifies breaking the law,

505
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 5: and I don't think john he wants it to either.

506
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 5: But like in most things that deal with human nature,

507
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 5: they are nuanced, interesting, if examined in detail, and insightful.

508
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 5: If you're willing to listen to people talk who have

509
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 5: a different life experience than you. There are so many

510
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 5: tidbits of interest in Johnny's story. It's like being confused

511
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 5: on a covey rise by how many targets are in

512
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 5: front of you. The thing that stands out most to

513
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 5: me is Johnny's honesty about a dishonest past. He's not

514
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: blaming anyone for his decisions, and he's not seeking attention

515
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 5: or any kind of.

516
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: Glory at all.

517
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 5: I pride his arm to get him to talk to me,

518
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 5: and I'm the one that came to him. And if

519
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 5: something goes awry in the fact that this story was released,

520
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 5: it's Clay Nukeomb that's to blame, not Johnny. Johnny remembered

521
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 5: a story from the nineteen eighties that he thinks I

522
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 5: need to hear.

523
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 4: I probably need to tell you that story, don them.

524
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: I had a cabin on Poto Mount and leaped the

525
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 4: metal roof and I got up there with a hammer,

526
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 4: and every time I was beating that ridge cap down,

527
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 4: trying to get a nail in it to pull that

528
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 4: ridge cap down. Every time i'd hit that maidle of

529
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 4: turkey job. This was a couple of weeks before season.

530
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: I was gonna hunt there of that seat. But every

531
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: time I'd hit that, she dire bowl aloft man. Well

532
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 4: rain that night, big rain, bad ruin man. There won't

533
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 4: be nobody overwhere, So I just drove around. I know

534
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 4: close to where he was from my cabin. But I

535
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: could get up there with that get wet and walk

536
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 4: down that road and I'd be right on it, and

537
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 4: I yepped to him and he goble right back. When

538
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 4: he come there were three old Oh boy, man, I

539
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 4: don't need three. I believe I'm gonna get one. It's

540
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 4: a good deal. I done a lot of calling just

541
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 4: seeing what I could get by with. I don't close

542
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: enough kill, I've cut, squawked and castle. Yeah, boy, they

543
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 4: was putting the show on. So I shot one, got it,

544
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: went back to my truck, discharged to set it over

545
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 4: in the back of the truck, and my game more

546
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: than friend. Randy Fennels cut up behind my truck. You

547
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 4: was in a brush paw right there behind my truck.

548
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 4: Got you, boy? You sure do? I saidn't lie? I

549
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 4: had and run, so I said, you ain't not a

550
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: bad day yourself? Did you hear all that? Randy?

551
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: So?

552
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I heard it all. That's good as a gift.

553
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 4: It's just too early. I'm gonna have to take it.

554
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: You do well. I don't blame me. You ain't had

555
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 4: a bad day. Here's your gun, here's your truck, here's

556
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: your turkey. Whatelse you need well? He said, I hate

557
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 4: to see you taking this hard. I'm job security for you.

558
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 4: Do you hear all that goblin this morning. I ain't

559
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 4: going nowhere. You making that, Yes, I said, you can

560
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: make a name for yourself right there. I ain't going nowhere. Well,

561
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take your gun. I said, Well, you can

562
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 4: catch me a couple more times before I'll get nervous.

563
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 4: And I said get in and started rain again. He

564
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 4: had sulky wet. He had sat in the rain, probably

565
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: the biggest part of the morning, in the dark, because

566
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 4: he didn't come in there out of Senior's truck. But

567
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 4: I so get in. I'll take you to your truck,

568
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 4: he said, after all this, you will give me a ride.

569
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 4: I said, well, I'm a good guy. If you knew me,

570
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: you'd like me. I ain't a bad guy. You make

571
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: a name for yourself right here. I hope they promote

572
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 4: you and move you to Oklahoma City and get you

573
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 4: out of these woods. I hauled him right to his truck.

574
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 4: We still talk now.

575
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 5: Okay, when you describe how calm you were today forty

576
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 5: years later, as you tell that story, you're like super calm,

577
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 5: and I think a lot of times we kind of

578
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 5: rewrite stuff in our head. Were you that calm for real?

579
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: With that guy? You didn't care no.

580
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 4: He'd tell you the same thing if we were here today.

581
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 6: It tell Okay, So there's these rock climbers, these these

582
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 6: free climbers that climb these big granite faces out and

583
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 6: out west, and they.

584
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: Talk about how those guys are.

585
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 5: Superhuman when it comes to dealing with anxiety, and they

586
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 5: they're just able to climb on these rocks where me

587
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 5: or you, a normal guy, would be scared to death.

588
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 5: Their brain doesn't equate the consequence of falling like a

589
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 5: normal person. I still don't understand why you wouldn't be afraid,

590
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 5: because it's not like you're rich and could just pay tickets.

591
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 5: No big deal. They're going to take your truck, they're

592
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: going to take your gun, just for what you had

593
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 5: going on in your life. And at that time too,

594
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 5: I guess you were were you an alcoholic at that time,

595
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 5: So I mean there was a lot of I guess

596
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 5: of rough stuff going on.

597
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

598
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 5: So it's just it's just like turkey eaton was not

599
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 5: something you were worried about.

600
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: When I loaded them in the truck, I had a

601
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 4: thought that nervous me just a little yeah, right between

602
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: me and m laying on a seat with a bag

603
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 4: of dope, and a deer horn pipe, and I very

604
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 4: casually scooted a glove over it. Now, that unnerved me

605
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 4: a little bit, But as far as killing a turkey

606
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 4: a few days early, now, I didn't bother me at all. Yeah,

607
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 4: getting caught didn't bother me. I don't know. Maybe I'll

608
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 4: just look at it different.

609
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 5: We're starting to see that his problems with the law

610
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 5: were bigger than just turkeys. He could have left out

611
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 5: that little detail, but he didn't, and I appreciate that.

612
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 5: What's ironic is that today marijuana is legal in most places,

613
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 5: but at the time Johnny might have gone to jail

614
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 5: for it. But I'd like to examine his statement about

615
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 5: looking at wildlife laws different. That could sound like the

616
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 5: typical excuse, But Johnny brings up an interesting point that,

617
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 5: if not addressed, could assault the intellectual integrity of our

618
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 5: discuss which I am greatly enjoying. My point is nuanced,

619
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 5: and it has to do with how different generations view

620
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 5: life laws and ethics. By my observation, some people, emphasis

621
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 5: on some raised in rural America that were adults by

622
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 5: the nineteen sixties, viewed game laws as mere suggestions, and

623
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 5: it was even validated by the legal system of the time,

624
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 5: as they simply ticketed people with relatively minimal consequences, making

625
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 5: the crime feel not that much different than a speeding ticket.

626
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 5: I'm not suggesting that it was ever right to break

627
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 5: the law. The Bible says that men should obey the

628
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 5: laws of men, and by doing so, they're ultimately obeying God.

629
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 5: And that book was written long before nineteen sixty. But

630
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 5: people raise later in the progression of America and conservation,

631
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 5: we're more likely to respect and obey wildlife laws. By

632
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 5: the nineteen nineties, average hunters were becoming indoctrinated with functional

633
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 5: ideas about conservation, and it became much more mainstream to

634
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 5: obey the law, to the point that outlawing has fallen

635
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 5: more and more out of style. At least this is

636
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 5: what I have witnessed with my own eyes. But you'll

637
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 5: have to listen to this and tell me what you think.

638
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 3: Now.

639
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: What about today, though, Johnny, Because what I've heard from people,

640
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 5: and I feel like what I've heard from you is

641
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 5: that you don't break the law anymore on purpose?

642
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 4: No, why not? I'm just a better person than I

643
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: used to be. I used to just didn't care. I

644
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 4: care now I don't go before season that.

645
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 5: What about now, probably with more knowledge of conservation, if

646
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 5: everybody killed twenty turkeys a year, that would.

647
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 4: For sure be bad, it'd be wrong.

648
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 5: What about from that angle, from just a conservation angle.

649
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: Now, the way our turkeys are number numbers are down,

650
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: they don't need to be over hunted. Luck that.

651
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 5: But so part of your deal was back in the

652
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 5: day we had so many there were so few turkey

653
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: hunters that you just couldn't figure out why it was wrong.

654
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 4: Right, I just I didn't see that much wrong, isn't it.

655
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 4: When I first started hunting over here mid seventies, I'd

656
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 4: come over here for two weeks and never see a

657
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 4: turkey hunt hunt this whole country, all of it, never

658
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 4: even see a hunter, nobody hunting over any.

659
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: There was probably full of turkeys.

660
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: Any anywhere you stop. It make no difference anywhere you stop.

661
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 4: If you're a turkey go.

662
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 5: And so you're sitting here saying the game and Fish

663
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 5: tells me I can kill two turkeys. I mean, you're

664
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 5: you're gonna kill more than that.

665
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 4: Probably it's a different time.

666
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: It was a different time, he said.

667
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 5: And I want to point out that he's literally describing

668
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 5: a former time, penalties were different, Turkey populations were higher,

669
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 5: Turkey hunter numbers were way lower, and it was more

670
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: common for his generation and their mentors to take wildlife

671
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 5: laws less. Seriously, all this stuff makes me grateful for

672
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 5: the generations of American game wardens that have been the

673
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 5: interface of the law in our society as it gradually

674
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 5: has shifted from the market hunting mentalities of the eighteen

675
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 5: hundreds to the hyper informed conservation mind frames of the

676
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 5: average modern hunter. We've still got problems today, but things

677
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 5: are getting better. I'm still, though, trying to figure out

678
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 5: Johnny's motivation. I've got a question for him, and I'm

679
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 5: going to bring up two familiar names from Bear Greece's

680
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 5: past that we did on a series called Genuine Outlaws,

681
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 5: which started on episode fifty two. We did this series

682
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 5: on the Louisville and Charlie Edwards. It was real clear

683
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 5: that they enjoyed getting away from game wardens and that

684
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 5: was a part of the fun that they had and

685
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 5: it felt like and kind of what the people around them.

686
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 5: And I never interviewed Louidelle and Charlie because they were

687
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 5: they had passed away by the time I did this.

688
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 5: It was clear that they that was part of the

689
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 5: reason that they wanted to kill stuff illegally. Was just

690
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 5: kind of the thrill of getting away with it.

691
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, was that? Do you think that was a part

692
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 3: of what you did?

693
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 4: Not? Really, I just liked it. I just liked hunting

694
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 4: turkeys and the time to.

695
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: Hunt thems win their doll But it was just that simple.

696
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's simple. But no, not not just trying to

697
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 4: get away with it. It just I don't know, I

698
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: just did it. Uh. I didn't baite them or hunt

699
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 4: them in the summer and shoot them over water, set

700
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 4: around the water hole and trying to kill them. I

701
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 4: didn't do that. From you hunt a turkey with a

702
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: turkey call and a shotgun, you know, I'm gonna hurt

703
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: the population, you shoe gobbler. That's the way I looked

704
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 4: at it. I'm not saying that's right, and if everybody

705
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: did that it would be bad. But as far as

706
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 4: being scared.

707
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 5: Back in those days though, that a ticket might have

708
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 5: been just like one hundred and fifty dollars.

709
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: Just go pay your ticket, is that right?

710
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 4: Yeah? I got called one time, I got caught I

711
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 4: think about two hundred and seventy dollars, and after Turkey season,

712
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 4: I made a deal with the DA that I could

713
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 4: pick up trash with the inmates from our prison here

714
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 4: at Hodgy to pay for the rest of it. And

715
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 4: that's what I did.

716
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 3: See you picked up trash.

717
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 4: I paid him a little cash and picked up trash

718
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 4: with them in money. Boy, they made me a lot

719
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:48,959
Speaker 4: of deals, but I couldn't take any of them either.

720
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 4: I said, I'll be in here full time with you,

721
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 4: all right. Now, got a couple of months here picking

722
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 4: up trash. But that's worth killing the turkey. You can't

723
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 4: put a price on killing the turkey.

724
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: Really, that's the way you would well look at it.

725
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 4: But as much as I've done it now, I've been

726
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 4: chased around.

727
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: But do you think they were after you? Oh?

728
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah No.

729
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: Do you think they ever worked you undercover?

730
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 4: I think you what are you.

731
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 3: Pointing out there?

732
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 4: Old bricks? Uh huh. I had a couple of gentlemen

733
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 4: show up here, wanted.

734
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: To do that, do this brick work?

735
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I said, well, yeah, it'd be a good idea

736
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: of needed one, but don't have it. I said, well,

737
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 4: well we're gonna build you one. I didn't think nothing

738
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: about it, and they start calling my house. I didn't

739
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 4: have a phone here. They started calling my house looking

740
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: for me, and they showed back up and find me

741
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 4: in town, and I found that strange. They got nearly

742
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 4: through and he said, you don't know what to think

743
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: about us, do you? I said, well, no, not really,

744
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: but I thank you. Probably working for the Waldlife Department,

745
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 4: maybe undercover, trying to catch me. That a that's me.

746
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: All kinds of turkey stuff and deer stuff. How men

747
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: where they hunters claimed to be? I don't know. I

748
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 4: wasn't going to go wanting with them, but they just

749
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 4: keep coming back, coming back, coming back, And I finally

750
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 4: he said, you don't know what to think about us,

751
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 4: do you? I said, well, I think you're undercover, probably

752
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 4: trying to catch me in some kind of violations. And

753
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 4: they loaded their stuff up and left, and I hadn't

754
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 4: seen them since.

755
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: You're pretty certain they were undercover guys.

756
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes if you listen, you can hear stuff. If

757
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 4: you've got your ears open and your eyes open, you

758
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 4: might get a tip from somebody that And I was

759
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: kind of on the look.

760
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 5: You were just suspicious of these guys. Yeah, yeah, So

761
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,439
Speaker 5: did you get a tip from somebody else. Yeah, how

762
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 5: does that make you feel? I mean, at the time,

763
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 5: did that that didn't scare you?

764
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 4: No, it made me feel good that that man thought

765
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 4: enough of me to save me a problem. Oh well, No,

766
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 4: I wasn't a bit afraid of them. Now, game arden

767
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 4: or this people, I'm not afraid of them. Yeah, people

768
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 4: say I'm coming. A lot of times I've been hunting

769
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 4: with people and game warding drive up and they just

770
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 4: go all to pieces. They we ain't done nothing wrong,

771
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 4: man ain't gonna bother Ruugh.

772
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 5: Johnny's transparency today is notable. We're going to learn the

773
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 5: nitty gritty of why he changed. But first here's a

774
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 5: lighter story about an interaction with a game warden that

775
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 5: happened during the legal hunting season, And then after this

776
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 5: we're gonna get real serious.

777
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: There was an old gentleman we know was calling to

778
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 4: a turkey, so we just laid in the ditch. We

779
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 4: didn't then, won't mess them up. We just lay in

780
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 4: our lesson. He had whacked the turkey. Of god, it

781
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 4: wasn't coming. We'd played with him quite a bit. He

782
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 4: was not a player. He had gobbled. Oh he was fun,

783
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 4: And I said, look coming up a road there and

784
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 4: they're come to game orders eke and up round. Now

785
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 4: we're laying there full calalplode right in the ditch. And

786
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: he got right in with me and I said, get

787
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 4: somewhere and sat down. He the wild turkeys were hunting here.

788
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 4: We can't kill him. You walking up down the road here,

789
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 4: what's better to you? And it haddled him, kind of

790
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 4: blowed him up or something. He went for a gun,

791
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 4: but it lasts down. Boy, you don't need no gun now.

792
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 4: We're just have another man called this turkey sat down

793
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: here with If you're gonna hunt with us, you need

794
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 4: to get her early and wear from camiflaude, you ain't

795
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 4: got a shotgun all out you want?

796
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: Now? Is this before season?

797
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 4: No?

798
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: This is a darn see this is during legal season.

799
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, we've had from wardens here.

800
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 5: Johnny has painted a clear picture of his days of outlawing.

801
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 5: But the one thing that those half a dozen people

802
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 5: did tell me one by one before I met Johnny

803
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 5: is that he is different today. He's changed, they said.

804
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 5: Even the game wardens suggested this. Throughout this story, you've

805
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 5: heard that Johnny used to be an alcoholic. And from

806
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 5: one story we learned that he used some drugs. I

807
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 5: wanted to know how that started and why he changed,

808
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 5: so I asked him.

809
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 4: Well, I just made some bad choices hanging out with

810
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 4: the wrong people, and I'd been around wild cat whiskey

811
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 4: and homebrew, and I just didn't handle it very well.

812
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 4: And then I got over here. After I got my cabin,

813
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: there was a preacher that coon hunted a lot. He

814
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 4: would stop by the saman. I was usually too drunk

815
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 4: to talk to him, but I know he was here.

816
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 4: Drod raised in church, trained up in church like Ash.

817
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: But I just let the world get the best of me.

818
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 4: But when that preacher started coming here, it kind of

819
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 4: got me to thinking. And I woke up one morning

820
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 4: up the creek here. I'd been on a pretty bad

821
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 4: drunk and when I woke up that particular morning, I

822
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 4: didn't know where I was. How I got there. I

823
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 4: didn't know any of them. People didn't know where my

824
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 4: truck was. I finally found someone I know and got

825
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 4: them to take me to my truck. In fact, i'd

826
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 4: been gone about six months. I come over there hunt

827
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 4: and it was after Turkey's evening and I still hadn't

828
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 4: been on so I lost about everything, my wife, my family,

829
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 4: my friends, my place, cattle tractors, but I didn't care.

830
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 4: I woke up one morning up here and I thought,

831
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 4: you're in a bad way. I hope for you of Jesus.

832
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 4: And by that preacher coming here, I think that kind

833
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 4: of rekindled the spirit that had been instilled in me

834
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 4: as a kid. And I decided I needed to get

835
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 4: right with the Lord and get my life right and

836
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 4: try to get my family back. And so I stopped

837
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 4: on top of Horseshoe Mountain one morning, just getting daylight,

838
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 4: and I asked the Lord to help me. I'm in

839
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 4: a bond, save me, take this addiction from me, give

840
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 4: me my wife back. And I drove on to the

841
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 4: cabin and I went out everybody's fire pit, and the

842
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 4: sun was coming up then, and I saw a transformation

843
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 4: in the east with that sun shining through the clouds

844
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 4: like I had never seen before. Had to be a

845
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 4: sign from God, a glimpse of heaven, maybe orange purple,

846
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 4: blue cloud raised a light shine and drew them pretty amazing.

847
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 4: And my life would changed right there to that fire pit.

848
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 4: Believe it or not, it was easier than you think.

849
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 4: When you get Jesus involved in it. He took when

850
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 4: I gave my life to him, he took that addiction

851
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 4: from me. Been fifteen years, three hundred and nineteen days,

852
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 4: and I'll serve him, I believe, And he took that

853
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: from me. I'd been locked up, dried out in jail

854
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 4: for public drunk, all kinds of stuff. But when I

855
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 4: got Jesus in my life through the Holy Spirit, he

856
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 4: took that addiction from I quit smoking, I quit drinking,

857
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 4: I quit everything right there to a fire pit. It

858
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 4: took a few months, but I had some time. I waited.

859
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,919
Speaker 4: I got my life back, I got my wife's back,

860
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 4: my family back. Lord blessed me with a good cabin,

861
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 4: a new house, and I went from being an alcoholic

862
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 4: with a drug addiction to a deacon and an ordained minister.

863
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 4: And some people get saved at an early age. I

864
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 4: got a preacher. Friend told me he was saved when

865
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 4: he was nine years old, never broke any laws. I said,

866
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 4: what you get saved from? Yeah, I've done it all.

867
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 4: What I hadn't done all, this, hadn't never thought over,

868
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 4: didn't want to try it. I've done it all, and

869
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 4: that ain't no secret. But I'm not that way anymore.

870
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 4: Jesus has given me a whole new life, a whole

871
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 4: new heart, and the whole new mind. Today I've got

872
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 4: my wife, but my family bud Yeah about everybody equitment, Yeah,

873
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 4: Jesus fixed all that. Better than that's over. But that's incredible.

874
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: I still like to hunt. He goes with me. He

875
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 4: likes mountain.

876
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 5: It's clear that Johnny has been through the ringer, but

877
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 5: it sounds like he's got things figured out now. There's

878
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 5: more to people than the worst days of their past,

879
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 5: and there's more for you than the worst days of

880
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 5: your past. The confessions of this former outlaw is really

881
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 5: a story of redemption. Thank you, Johnny for sharing the

882
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 5: nitty gritty of your story. I can't thank you enough

883
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 5: for listening to Bear Grease and Brent's This Country Life podcast.

884
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 5: Please share this pot podcast with someone that you know

885
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 5: that might be struggling, or somebody that just enjoys a

886
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 5: genuine story.

887
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 2: Thank you all so much.

888
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 5: Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live.

889
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: Lot of train whistled sitting right under there. Whistle. I've

890
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 4: lost quite a bit of my hearing. Yeah, I used

891
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 4: to get here good and of course good, but now

892
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 4: I have to have someone go with me because my

893
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 4: son in law said, if you hear a turkey John it,

894
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 4: don't go to it. Sat down to Stark calling you

895
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 4: already to close.

896
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 3: If you can hear it, you're already.

897
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 4: Hear gobble, you're already to close.

898
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: That's funny at hip