1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Hey listeners Jessica here. Be sure to check out new 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: episodes of Undetermined every Tuesday for free wherever you get 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: your podcasts. For early and ad free listening, check out 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: and participating in the show, and do not represent those 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV and Resonate recordings. All individuals described or 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: matter such as violence and graphic descriptions, which may not 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 2: I feel like. 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 3: If somebody has disappeared and they don't have a vehicle, 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,319 Speaker 3: they don't have have a cell phone to communicate, they 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 3: don't have any means of paying for anything. 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: At that point you have to treat it like it's 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 2: a missing child. That means going door to door, going 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 2: and looking under bushes and cars. So don't make excuses 19 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: to me about manpower, because that just means you don't 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: want to. That's what I feel all of this boils 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: down to, is they just don't want to. 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 4: But when they get a call that there's a body 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 4: found two and a half, everybody. 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 5: Everybody shows up. 25 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 4: People in suits, don't even talk to you, people in 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 4: uniforms coming up and asking questions. 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 5: And the one detective. 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 4: That wasn't there an hour and a half before, there's 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 4: all of a sudden there and hey man, how are. 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 5: You guys doing. We just did your job and we 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 5: found our relative. How are you doing? 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 4: You know, all of a sudden you have more than 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: enough people to come out. 34 00:01:50,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 5: That's kind of embarrassing. And I was probably about. 35 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 4: Where you see those uh those little like concrete things 36 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 4: over there, when I heard her yelling from over here, 37 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 4: and then they ended up calling me and I rushed back, 38 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 4: but there was a stop training over here, so I 39 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 4: had to hop over and walk. 40 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 5: And and just just kind of look down. That goes 41 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 5: pretty deep. It's way down there, so it's it's crazy. 42 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 4: And you guys see about where she lived, just down 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 4: the road, not very far at all, so it was 44 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 4: extremely close. 45 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, gives me chills being back here. 46 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: This is on Thursday, August twenty second, twenty nineteen, about 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: a week after Jessica's disappearance. Sisters Audrey and Amanda, along 48 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: with their cousin Doug, made the long trek from Mississippi 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: to New Orleans. First stop in OPD District three, they 50 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: wanted to speak to Detective One, but when they arrive, 51 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: he's not there, so they make the best of their 52 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: time and start looking around Jessica's Lakeview neighborhood, the last 53 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: place she was seeing. Scouring a map of the area, 54 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: they decide to look just on the outskirts of the 55 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: residential part of the neighborhood. Something drew them to an 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: overgrown area just passed an interstate overpass. There's a pumping 57 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: station and a hillside that leads up to some train 58 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: tracks dividing Lakeview and its adjacent neighborhood. 59 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 4: I'm gonna led al drug kind of walk you guys 60 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 4: over there. 61 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: It was greways down there. 62 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 6: So me, Doug, and Amanda got here by the pumping 63 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 6: station number seven and was scouting out places to look at. 64 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 6: Amanda stayed in the car to talk to Maria to 65 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 6: tell her what was going on, what our next plan was, 66 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 6: And me and Doug got out the car and. 67 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 7: We went over the railroad tracks. 68 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 8: We crossed the train and he told me go look 69 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 8: over that way by the woods, and that's what I did. 70 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 8: I went over there, and I was walking alongside of 71 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 8: the train and I seen like a white tarp down 72 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 8: there's like a leg a hill with rocks on it, 73 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 8: and I've seen a white tarp, and I thought, oh 74 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 8: my god, I hope my sister's not underneath there. So 75 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 8: to walk down there, but I slid all the way 76 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 8: down and my foot hit the tarp, and I just 77 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 8: remember thinking, please, don't let my sister be underneath there. 78 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 8: And I pulled up the tarp and she wasn't there, 79 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 8: and I was so relieved. 80 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: Though Audrey felt a sense of relief in this moment, 81 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: her search continued. She had a strong feeling about this 82 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: area and felt something calling to her, urging her to 83 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: keep looking. 84 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 8: And then literally maybe five ten feet I just stayed 85 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 8: down there, and I jumped on a railroad tie and 86 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 8: then I turned around, and then as clear as day, 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 8: I heard a voice that said, no, look again. And 88 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 8: I looked again. And that's whenever. So when I seen 89 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 8: her legs, when I seen her back, and I started screaming. 90 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 7: No one heard me. I was just sitting here screaming. 91 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 9: I walked back up the hime, and then I walked 92 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 9: back down and I looked again because I thought, maybe 93 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 9: that's not what I'm seeing. And I fell to the 94 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 9: grand and just started screaming, and and then I called 95 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 9: my sister on the phone and I said, I found Jessica. 96 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 8: She was just laying there, and I knew it was 97 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 8: my sister, Like I knew it was her. 98 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 5: And it was her. 99 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 7: Knee that was black, and she had black shorts, she 100 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 7: had on a black shirt. Her feet were covered by 101 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 7: some bushes, and then like her head was kind of 102 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 7: covered by some bushes. 103 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 8: Too, but I could see her. 104 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 7: She was just laying there like someone set her down 105 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 7: or something like a pizza trush. She was only two 106 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 7: enough foughts from her house. She was a person, no 107 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 7: matter what what she was into or anything, she didn't 108 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 7: deserve to die like that. 109 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 4: We were all kind of shocked, you know, we were 110 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 4: all kind of kind of scared. Obviously, reality kind of 111 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 4: kicks in. 112 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: This is Jessica's cousin, Doug Schmidt, who accompanied Audrey and 113 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: Amanda in their search for Jessica. Doug works in the 114 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: funeral home industry and sees the deceased on a daily basis. 115 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: Still the scene was jarring to him. 116 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 4: She wasn't facing us, she was facing another direction, and 117 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 4: she was kind of more or less sitting in a 118 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 4: fetal position, and the surroundings didn't really seem really natural 119 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 4: as far as Okay, well, I don't know what's going on. 120 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 4: I'm not a police officer, not a detective. But I 121 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 4: told him, I said, look, if this is her or 122 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 4: if it's not, this is still a dead body, and 123 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: we need to get away from this right now and. 124 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 5: Call the police. 125 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: And they did just that. As they waited, Amanda call 126 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: Jessica's friend Maria to let her know what had happened. 127 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 10: She was like, we found a body. Police are on 128 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 10: the way, like just that quick, so fast, We're going 129 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 10: to look around. We found her, and I remember like 130 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 10: just howling like a bansheet and like walking around my 131 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 10: living room in circles and being like, oh my god, 132 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 10: I'm so sorry, just like I knew it was her. 133 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: Back at the scene, it wasn't long before the area 134 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: was flooded with emergency personnel and police, including Detective lun When. 135 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 4: They showed up, it was a few detectives and we 136 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 4: walked them to where we found her and of course, 137 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 4: they doing their thing. They're asking questions about what's the 138 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 4: story here, and we kind of filled them in a 139 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 4: little bit about what we knew up to that point 140 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 4: that look, she was missing. We came down because it 141 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 4: had been ten days and we were worried about our 142 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: relative and went over everything with them, and of course 143 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 4: they took pictures. Corners Office showed up and removed her 144 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 4: and all. And I remember my cousin Mandy really wanted 145 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 4: to see because at the point, you know, you couldn't 146 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 4: really see anything, and the level of decomp ten days 147 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 4: and the heat in that area, I mean, it kind 148 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 4: of was rapid. 149 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 5: We asked them, said, look, these are her sisters. 150 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 4: Man to hear wants to see her because she wants 151 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 4: to know if this is her or not, because they 152 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 4: had this gut. 153 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 5: Feeling that look, no, that's that's my sister. I remember 154 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 5: him saying, the level of d comp's bad. 155 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 4: Soft tissues are removed, it's you don't want to see. 156 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: The family was certain it was Jessica, but sadly, due 157 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: to the level of decomposition from the New Orleans heat, 158 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: they wouldn't get a positive identification that day. In fact, 159 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: they didn't feel like they got much of anything out 160 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: of the NPD that day. According to Doug, the scene 161 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: was cleared within an hour. 162 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 5: Looking back, I kind of expect a little bit more. 163 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 4: They interviewed us, of course, they took some pictures of 164 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 4: the immediate area, and then that was it. They didn't 165 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 4: really expand past just that one little section, And that 166 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 4: always seemed kind of to me. 167 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 5: It really did, really really odd. 168 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 4: It didn't seem like it wasn't as big a deal 169 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 4: as it should have been to them. This was a 170 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 4: missing person's case that was reported missing. This wasn't like, 171 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 4: oh she was missing and no one reported its Like. 172 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 5: No, they knew. 173 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 4: They knew our level of interest, our level of involvement. 174 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 4: They knew it. The detective that we were going to 175 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: see that day showed up on the scene and talked 176 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: to us. You know, of course we're kind of looking 177 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 4: at them, like, I mean, the house is a straight 178 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: shot from here. This seems awfully closed for so many 179 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 4: miss in ten days, and three amateurs who don't even 180 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 4: live in the area, have never been to this area 181 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 4: can put two and two together and just start looking around. 182 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 4: Even looking back, it just still feels odd to me 183 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 4: because I expected more. I expect a lot more, and 184 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 4: it just never happened. 185 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 5: It just never happened. 186 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: And when the NOPD wrapped up at the scene, what 187 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: was left was a police report, a fairly brief one 188 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: at that the incident is listed as an unclassified death 189 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: and specifically states that is not a result of a 190 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: hate crime or domestic violence. The narrative says, in part. 191 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 11: At approximately twelve thirty six pm, police officer Everett Briscoe 192 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 11: was dispatched to the intersection of Orleans Avenue in Kenilworth 193 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 11: Street to investigate a report of a miscellaneous incident, Whereas 194 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 11: the reporting person, Amanda Barnes, stated, while searching for her sister, 195 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 11: who was reported missing, she located the deceased body of 196 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 11: an unknown white female. 197 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: Officers reported her as wearing a gray shirt and blue shorts, 198 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: and also noted that she was in an advanced stage 199 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: of decomposition. It, in essence, that's the police report. As 200 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: Doug Audrey and Amanda drove away from the scene that afternoon, 201 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: they were at a loss. The only thing they knew 202 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: for sure in that moment was that Jessica was no 203 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: longer missing. She was gone forever, you know. 204 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 5: There was a lot of emotions going on. 205 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: There was a lot of anger, there was a lot 206 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 4: of confusion, a lot of sadness, and it just felt 207 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 4: like it was just like a roller coaster. I know, 208 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 4: we all had hoped that she was still alive somewhere, 209 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 4: and you kind of hang on to that, and then 210 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 4: you start hoping that maybe this wasn't her. 211 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 5: Because me not being. 212 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 4: Near as close to Jessica as my two cousins were, 213 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 4: I felt the degree of sadness because I mean, I 214 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 4: I can't even imagine I couldn't you know, I have 215 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 4: three sisters of my own, and even trying to look 216 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 4: at it from their perspective just makes me just want 217 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: to shut down. 218 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: Eventually reality would set in, but it would take some time. 219 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't until nearly three months later, in November of 220 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, that the body would officially be matched to 221 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: Jessica through DNA. According to the family, the delay was 222 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: a result of the NPD misplacing the original DNA sample 223 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: submitted by Jessica's mother. Nonetheless, they got their answer, a 224 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: rather unwanted one, and there would be more to follow. 225 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Two months later, January of twenty twenty would turn out 226 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: to be a quite eventful month for the case. The 227 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: corner listed both the cause and manner of death as 228 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: undetermined or a coroner's examination. They typically include the cause 229 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: and manner of death. Manner of death can be natural, 230 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: accidental suicide, homicide, or if it's unknown but is not 231 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: considered natural causes, they can classify it as undetermined. In 232 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: Jessica's case, her injuries, which we'll get to in a minute, 233 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: did not indicate exactly how she died. Therefore, they also 234 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: ruled her cause of death as undetermined. This obviously didn't 235 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: sit well with the family. It seemed they were even 236 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: further from closure than they thought. Everything was up in 237 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: the air. To make matters worse, that same day, Audrey 238 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: and Amanda learned that they wouldn't even be able to 239 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: lay their sister to rest. Her remains were released to 240 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: her husband justin This came as a surprise to them 241 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: and they were crushed. And as if that wasn't enough 242 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: bad news for one month, the most shocking revelation would 243 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: come the last day of the month, January thirty first, 244 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, when the coroner released the autopsy report to 245 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: the family. They hoped it would provide some answers. Instead, 246 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: it would only raise more questions. We were given access 247 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: to the report by Jessica's family. Here's what it says. 248 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: Jessica's time of death was listed as August twenty second, 249 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, one h five pm, which is when she 250 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: was found and officially pronounced deceased at the scene. The 251 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: autopsy indicates several injuries to Jessica's body, including a broken 252 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: nose and jaw. She also sustained post mortem injuries, meaning 253 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: they happened after she was deceased. Those include a broken 254 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: rib and C four vertebrae, which is located in the neck. 255 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: At the time of her autopsy, Doctor O'Sullivan, a forensic 256 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: pathologist with the Orleans Parish Corner's Office, collected evidence samples 257 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: from Jessica's body, including two envelopes of fingernail clippings, a 258 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: heart charmed necklace from her neck, and her clothing black 259 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: tank top, black shorts, pink underwear, and a pair of 260 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: black shoes, which contradicted what the nopedie reported her wearing 261 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: gray shirt and blue shorts. The doctor also notates a 262 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: sun and moon tattoo on her lower right abdomen following 263 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: the autopsy, a toxicology screening was conducted by forensic toxicologist 264 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Katinko with NMS Labs. Testing shows levels of 265 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: memph amphetamine, amphetamine, alcohol, and prescription drugs including buproprian and 266 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: hydroxyu approprian. The report raises a lot of questions, and 267 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to better understand what everything meant to do 268 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: that I sought on an expert, a woman I had 269 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: connected with a few years back, ironically in New Orleans 270 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: during Crime con an annual true crime convention, where she 271 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: was speaking as a forensics expert. 272 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 12: My name is doctor Kimberly Massik. 273 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 13: I am an assistant professor of criminology and Victimology at 274 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 13: Indian River State College, as well as the founder and 275 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 13: director of. 276 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 14: The Institute for Cold Case Investigations, which works directly with 277 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 14: law enforcement agencies going through cold cases that are in 278 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 14: our local area. 279 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: While doctor Masnik hasn't conducted an official investigation into this case, 280 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: we asked her to look over the documents we have 281 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: and share her thoughts. 282 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 12: And the Jessica Easterly case. 283 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 13: Jessica was found ten days after she actually went missing. 284 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 12: She's in New Orleans. 285 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 13: She's in a fairly good state of decomposition from the 286 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 13: trunk up so the body is Jessica's body is removed 287 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 13: and she is taken to the examiner's office and when 288 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 13: they receive her, she is received in the bag upside down, 289 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 13: and the process for her very little is actually done 290 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 13: because of the level of decomposition. And you have to 291 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 13: think it's New Orleans is very much like where I 292 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 13: live in Florida. It's extremely hot, it's extremely humid, which 293 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 13: is going to make the person their level of decomposition 294 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 13: happen much quicker. So she's not in the most pristine 295 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 13: condition she can be in to run all of the 296 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 13: tests that would normally be run. You go ahead and 297 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 13: do toxicology on her, but unfortunately they can't take it. 298 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 12: We can't get blood samples. 299 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 13: She's been out there for ten days, so either her 300 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 13: blood has dried up or because of the decomposition, the 301 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 13: blood has flowed into her body cavity, so therefore it's compromised. 302 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 13: So the one thing that they're really able to do 303 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 13: is to send off and have a piece of her 304 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 13: liver examined. Again, you have to remember that Jessica's liver 305 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 13: has now been out and in the public sun that 306 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 13: and everything else for ten days, so it is also 307 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 13: going through changes both chemically and physically. 308 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: There are many challenges experts face when dealing with a 309 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: highly decomposed body, as was the case here. Doctor Masnik 310 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: puts it simply, if you don't test for it, you're 311 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: not going to find it. But in Jasica's case, they 312 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: were able to find some things. 313 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 13: So there were only about five or six drugs that 314 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 13: were tested for that we know of. 315 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 12: Most of them come back to either. 316 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 13: Illicit drugs that she was on potentially for depression, or 317 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 13: she was being given by somebody for depression, or they 318 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 13: are items that could have shown up in her liver 319 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 13: in her system just simply due to this. The ethanol 320 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 13: is absolutely an alcohol, a drug that shows up in 321 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 13: the system due to decomp When I look at the 322 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 13: things that are said about Jessica in the report, the report. 323 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 12: Say she's either a very low. 324 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 13: Level user of myth because it doesn't say anything about, 325 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 13: you know, major blemishes to her skin, her teeth, or 326 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 13: in fair condition. There's nothing that we see when we 327 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 13: look at people that are major meth addicts. 328 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: However, she says it's important to understand how meth metabolizes 329 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: in the body. 330 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 13: Meth breaks down very quickly based on when you take 331 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 13: it and how much you take and how you take it. 332 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 13: So it's more than likely that if they're finding meth 333 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 13: in her body, that it was very recently taken and 334 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 13: it would not have been ingested because the stomach would 335 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 13: have dissolved it. That would lower the level very quickly. 336 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 13: Meth isn't going to increase because of decomposition. 337 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 12: Or anything else. If meth is there, then meth is there. 338 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: We asked doctor Masnak. If there's a potential overdose here. 339 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 13: You have to remember they were not able to run 340 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 13: tests as extensively as they would have if it had 341 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 13: been a fresh or an interior past. You have to 342 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 13: realize they used her liver to do most of the testing, 343 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 13: so the liver itself was also going through changes. 344 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 12: So yes, it is very likely that it did go down. 345 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 13: But then again, I still have to I'm speculating, and 346 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 13: it's based on just my knowledge of what the average 347 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 13: meth addicts looks like. One, if she's not a consistent user, 348 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 13: and two, even a heavy dose ten hours later, only 349 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 13: half of it's going to be in her system. And 350 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 13: then After that, you've got the ten days until we 351 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 13: even pick her up, and then you've got extra time 352 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 13: before the autopsy even happens. 353 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 12: So there's no way. 354 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 13: Of knowing exactly how much meth was in her system 355 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 13: at the time of her death. 356 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 12: You have to go back and look. There's nothing. 357 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 13: Nobody mentions anything about her. The husband is saying, you know, 358 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 13: they were taking a nap, so it's not like they 359 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 13: were at a party. There's nothing there that jumps out 360 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 13: to me and says that she took a heavy dose 361 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 13: of myth at that point in time, even though there's 362 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 13: also nothing that tells me that she didn't. 363 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: And while Jessica had traces of methamphetamine in her system 364 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: at the time of her toxicology examination, her family doesn't 365 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: believe she was habitually using meth. It's also unclear what 366 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: exactly Jessica had prescriptions for and whether or not the 367 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: drugs found in her system at the time of her 368 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: death or prescription. But apart from the drugs, I also 369 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: wanted to know if there was any way to determine 370 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: what Jessica's cause of death could have been based off 371 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: her injuries she. 372 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 13: Was found with Basically her nose is broken and her 373 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 13: jaw is broken, and they do not state, so I 374 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 13: can only assume or presume that that was either. 375 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 12: Pre mortem or anti mortem. 376 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 13: They don't ever mention whether or not there's any blood 377 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 13: in or around those areas, so I can't tell exactly 378 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 13: at what point she received those. But they do state 379 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 13: that her C four vertebrate as well as her rib 380 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 13: or broken, and those are post mortem. I am feeling, 381 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 13: based on what very little information we have, that this 382 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 13: is Jessica's. 383 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 12: A dumb sight. Because we have such little information. 384 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 13: That's why the coroner up there turns around and gives 385 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 13: us a manner and cause of death of being undetermined. 386 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 13: As much as I don't like it, undetermined is actually 387 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 13: probably the best thing to leave it at at this 388 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 13: point in time. 389 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: Although doctor Masnik is of the belief that Jessica's body 390 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: was dumped at the site, implicating some degree of foul play, 391 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: she says ultimately there's just not enough information to know 392 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: for sure, and adds that a classification of homicide would 393 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: be an overreach without definitive evidence on her body to 394 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: support it. But before we move on, I want you 395 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: to know there was something else found on her body. 396 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: That further supports the theory of it being moved, something 397 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: my partner Todd and I discussed at length. 398 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 15: We do know from a source that was at the 399 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 15: scene when her body was discovered, who makes their living 400 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 15: working with dead bodies, she had liver mortis on the 401 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 15: outside of her knee that was the opposite knee of 402 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 15: the knee that was touching the ground. 403 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: Let's break that down for someone who may not know 404 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: what post mortem liver mortis is, because I had to 405 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: have you explain it to me. And so let's begin 406 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: with Jessica's found laying on her side. 407 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 13: Right. 408 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 15: Yeah, for this argument's sake, we're not saying which side 409 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 15: she was discovered on right, but if she was discovered 410 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 15: on her left side, then we would be talking about 411 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 15: the right knee, and the liver mortis had set in 412 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 15: on the outside of that right knee, which is facing 413 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 15: the sky, pointed to straight up at the sky. From 414 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 15: a layman or detective's understanding of what liver mortis is 415 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 15: and what it occurs, it's post mortem lividity, which means 416 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 15: it happens after death. So about twenty minutes after you die, 417 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 15: the red blood cells start to separate themselves from the 418 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 15: plasma because your heart's not beating anymore and it's not 419 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 15: circulating the blood, so it works its way out of 420 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 15: vessels and whatnot into tissue and then it pulls and 421 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 15: it's falling because of gravity, tore the ground. So they're 422 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 15: able to determine how you were positioned at the time 423 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 15: you died, and it would mean that you laid there 424 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 15: in that position for a minimum probably of two hours, 425 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 15: probably closer to six the way this was described. 426 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: So what this proves is she died laying on one side. 427 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: She was found laying on the opposite side. Right between 428 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: this revelation and everything we discussed with doctor Masnik, there's 429 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: plenty of process here, and still something that gnaws at 430 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: me is just how close her body was to her house. 431 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: So now with all of this in mind, Todd and 432 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: I decided to go back to the spot where Jessica 433 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: was found. This time at night, it's eerie. Visibility is lacking. 434 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm on edge with every little noise I hear. It's 435 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: a little unsettling out here this late at night. It's 436 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: almost ten o'clock, it's dark, it's desolate this time of night. 437 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: Quite the contrast from the bustling neighborhood we first visited 438 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: in the daytime. Now no one is around, and one 439 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: lonely street light illuminates a small patch of street and grass. Now, 440 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: in August of twenty nineteen, this grassy area was overgrown, 441 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: very weedy. You know, it didn't look like it does now. 442 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: Now it's pretty manicured. I mean, it could probably use 443 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: a mo but it looks like it's been mowed recently, 444 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: within a week or so. I'd say. 445 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 15: There's a little pool in area, a little cutout in 446 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 15: the curb so that vehicles can pull into the slot 447 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 15: and it splits the lot in the middle. So if 448 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 15: it was this light wasn't here, then it was really dark. 449 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 15: You could pull in there, and if it were overgrown, 450 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 15: you could pull anything out of your car and just 451 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 15: slide it. 452 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: We find out after leaving New Orleans the light was 453 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: in fact newly installed this year. If they pull in 454 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: to this, I'm gonna say, now you were you were 455 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: mentioning this. This pull in kind of divides this this area, 456 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: so you got half the lot over here. The other 457 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: half on the other side is not far at all 458 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: from another house. 459 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 15: No from Oh, I'm standing now, I could throw a 460 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 15: baseball and hit that house, So it's it's risky. It's 461 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 15: a risky spot, even though it's dark and it is 462 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 15: visually and esthetically separated from this very nice edition they 463 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 15: lived in. 464 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: It's perplexing how she ends up this close to her 465 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: house if you're wanting to conceal her. Right, there are many, many, 466 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: many places we've seen driving around within minutes of driving 467 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes that would seemingly be easier to 468 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: conceal long term, possibly forever. 469 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 15: This is so close, and not only that, you have 470 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 15: way more privacy in these other areas, you're way less 471 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 15: likely to be spotted being parked there or doing something 472 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 15: wrong there. I mean, granted we're talking about you know, 473 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 15: this is kind of creepy. It's dark, it looks different 474 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 15: than the other side of the overpass. All that, yet 475 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 15: we are very very close to houses and people, and 476 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 15: that's never a great strategy for dumping a dead body. 477 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And as we have discussed, the location could have 478 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: been the opportunity that presented itself to do something quickly 479 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: and with haste, as opposed to planning and thinking of 480 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: a location that would be better suited to conceal. 481 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 15: It's hard to believe that this was anyone's master plan. 482 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 15: If any time at all was invested in what should 483 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 15: I do with this woman's body? 484 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 5: Now? 485 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 15: Where should I put it? Then I doubt this was 486 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 15: plan A. 487 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: We didn't stay long, but seeing this place at night 488 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: did add some perspective. It's not the best place to 489 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: hide a body by any stretch of the imagination, but 490 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: at night it is a very easy place to get 491 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: away with it, albeit if only temporarily, which is why 492 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: Todd believes this was not some thought out plan, rather 493 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: a rush decision made on the fly. So at this 494 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: point we have at least some clarity as to how 495 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: her body got to where it was found. But what 496 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: about the cause and manner of death. That's something that's 497 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: still seemed difficult to draw any conclusions, not to mention 498 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: who's responsible. Theories were beginning to swirl, especially between those 499 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: closest to her. But what I really wanted to know 500 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: is what Justin thought. After all, he was Jessica's husband, 501 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: they lived together. He was the last person to see her. 502 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: Jessica's family had virtually no contact with Justin during this time, 503 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: but he was talking one of the people he was 504 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: talking to was Jessica's friend, Erica. He may remember from 505 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: episode one she attended their wedding, and while she got 506 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: to know Justin a little, they certainly weren't close. But 507 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: shortly after Jessica went missing, Erica received a text from 508 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: Justin which would ultimately turn into an extended conversation spanning 509 00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: from August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, to February twenty sixth, twenty twenty. 510 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: Erica sent me screenshots of their text conversation. Let's begin 511 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: where their conversation started on August fifteenth, twenty nineteen, one 512 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: day after Jessica was reported missing and one week before 513 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: she was found. The text messages will be voiced by actors. 514 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:29,959 Speaker 5: Hey, it's Justin. 515 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 16: Hey, what happened to Jessica. I just saw the post 516 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 16: on Facebook. 517 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 17: She left some time after twelve pm yesterday. I was 518 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 17: a sleeper and I have no idea where she is 519 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 17: or if she's okay. 520 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 18: At first, I didn't know what to believe. I was like, 521 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 18: what is going on? Because I saw the post on 522 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 18: Facebook where he said Jessica, where are you? Grace misses you? 523 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 18: And I'm like, what do you mean? I texted him 524 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 18: I was like, where's Jessica. He said, I don't know. 525 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 18: Gray's been throwing up, She's worried, sick, and I was 526 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 18: hopeful that he had nothing to do with it. 527 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: You can actually see this in Erica's text. She was 528 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: there for Justin during this time. Sure, she had her 529 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: questions about Jessica's disappearance, and occasionally she'd throw out an 530 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: idea of how to maybe find her, But for the 531 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: most part, she was there to empathize. 532 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 16: You need to be there for Gracie, hang in there 533 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 16: and keep in touch, don't be too hard on. 534 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: Yourself, And by his responses, Justin seemed to appreciate her kindness. 535 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 17: I'm gonna try and take a nap. If I hear anything, 536 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 17: I'll call you immediately. Thanks for being a good friend. 537 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: In a way, it seemed like Erica became Justin's sounding board. 538 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: They texted frequently. Sometimes it was even lighthearted, but for 539 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: the most part it was serious. They both wanted to 540 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: find out what happened to Jessica. On August twenty ninth, 541 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: Erica asked Justin for an update. 542 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 16: Nothing today, do you remember saying anything or doing anything? 543 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 16: Are her saying anything the last day? You saw her 544 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 16: that would help find her. 545 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: Justin responds the following day, August thirtieth, at two twenty 546 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: six in the morning, giving the full story of what 547 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: happened the day Jessica went missing. I just want to 548 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: note that at this point Jessica's body had been found, 549 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: but neither Erica nor Justin seemed to know that. Here's 550 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: their exchange. 551 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,959 Speaker 17: Gone over that day in my mind with police, even 552 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 17: my daughter more than just a few times. The problem 553 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 17: with that day is there isn't a lot to it. 554 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: Justin explained how exhausted he was that day, between getting 555 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: great ready to go back to school and Jessica coming 556 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: out of what he called a depressive cycle after a 557 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: flare up with her fiber mayalgia. He remembered sleeping in 558 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: that morning and waking up to find Jessica in the 559 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: kitchen doing laundry. 560 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 17: She asked if I was hungry, and I said yes. 561 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 17: We talked about Grace School for a while, and she 562 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 17: said she was going. 563 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 5: To put a pizza in the oven. 564 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 17: She came back in the room when the pizza was ready, 565 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 17: and we ate watched TV. After we ate, she said 566 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 17: that I looked tired and I was abnormally tired because 567 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 17: Grace had just gotten out of the hospital. I was 568 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 17: getting her uniform for school, school supplies, all kinds of stuff, 569 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 17: and I didn't have any help from Jessica because she 570 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 17: was feeling like crap and sleeping a lot. So I said, yes, 571 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 17: I am, and she said that she had to move 572 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 17: the clothes to the dryer and she'd come lay down too. 573 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 17: She went in the kitchen with the plate, and I 574 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 17: remember her coming back in getting in the bed. That's 575 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 17: the last thing I remember for Grace woke me up 576 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 17: after getting home from school. That's when this all began. 577 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 17: I don't know, there's not a lot to it, but 578 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 17: that's what happened that morning. 579 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: This should all sound pretty familiar to you, as it's 580 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: the same narrative he gave to the NPD, but there's 581 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: one minor inconsistency. If you remember from the previous episode, 582 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: Justin told the first NPD unit that came to his 583 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: house for the wellness check that when he woke up, 584 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: he went into the kitchen and saw the pizza Jessica 585 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: made later that night and early the next morning, he 586 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: told the second INNOPD unit, who filed the missing person's 587 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: report that he and Jessica ate pizza rolls together in bed, 588 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: and now he tells Erica Jessica made a pizza and 589 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: they ate it in bed together while watching TV, and 590 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: that after taking their dishes to the kitchen and switching 591 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: out the laundry, Jessica returned to bed and lay down 592 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: with him. Of course, Erica had no knowledge of this, 593 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: so as Justin answered whatever questions she had and described 594 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: the events of that day, Erica took it all at 595 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: face value. Her angle at the time was to simply 596 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,959 Speaker 1: try and figure out what happened to her friend, and ironically, 597 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: the moment her and Justin's conversation started drifting into theories 598 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: about what happened, that's when things started to take a turn. 599 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 18: Nothing in my mind pointed to the facts that it 600 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 18: could have possibly been him, And so the more he 601 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 18: started texting me, and the more I started talking to 602 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 18: Maria and she would contradict himself. 603 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,280 Speaker 1: Once Erica got in touch with Maria for the first time, 604 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: she started hearing maria side of things. All the while 605 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: Justin was throwing out a range of theories about what 606 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 1: might have happened to Jessica. A stalker, a creepy neighbor. 607 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: She admitted herself to the hospital, and the list goes on. 608 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 18: He even tried to feed me the story that she's online. 609 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 18: She must have got a new phone, probably somebody she's with. 610 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 18: She met up with a new guy because she signed 611 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 18: on a messenger. He goes, go, look, you can see 612 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 18: it's active. So I would message her through Messenger, and 613 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 18: of course I would get a response. I'd be like, 614 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 18: is this to you? 615 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 13: Where are you? 616 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 18: I'm worried, sick, and a response would come back. So 617 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 18: then I would call for a Facebook messenger because you 618 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 18: can call, and then he answers the phone and I'm like. 619 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 13: What the fuck Jessin? 620 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 18: And I was pissed. I was livid. I was at 621 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,879 Speaker 18: work on the month's break and I'm like, why are 622 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 18: you answering the phone? Hees, what do you mean? I said, 623 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 18: what do you mean? What do I mean? You said 624 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 18: she he was a messenger. I just called her through 625 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 18: messenger and you're answering what is going on? And what's 626 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 18: just completely come up with some random story again, and 627 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 18: it was just it was crazy. 628 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,720 Speaker 1: But once news was out that Jessica's body had been found, 629 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: he settled on one theory suicide. 630 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 17: I'm sure they've all jumped on the Maria bandwagon. I mean, 631 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,240 Speaker 17: why not everyone else has, and it's a better story 632 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 17: than the truth. Let's see, Jessica had mental illness and 633 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 17: committed suicide or Justin's a no good piece of shit 634 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 17: because Maria says so, he must have had something to 635 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 17: do with it. Yeah, I can guess which one's easier 636 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 17: for people to deal with. 637 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: In fact, he seemed certain that Jessica had taken her 638 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: own life and that everyone would realize it soon enough. 639 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 17: After all this shit's over, and the information I've come across, 640 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 17: along with the truth that I've been saying all along, 641 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 17: will be validated by the corner's findings and the police 642 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 17: closed the case. You know what will change, nothing, not 643 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 17: a damn thing. My image in people's minds will still 644 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 17: be the same. Grace is going to be left with 645 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 17: the legacy of a mom who committed suicide and a 646 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 17: dad that everyone blamed except the police. And she'll still 647 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,439 Speaker 17: be gone, and most people will be left with more 648 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 17: questions than answers. 649 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 18: Like I laid into them. I was like, what the 650 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 18: fact did you do to her? I mean I just 651 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 18: went off. I couldn't, couldn't fake being nice anymore. 652 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 16: You say you miss her and claim it was suicide, 653 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 16: but you tell me why in the hell should I 654 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 16: ever believe you. You haven't done anything but throw and blame 655 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,959 Speaker 16: the other way. I tried to believe you, I tried 656 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 16: to empathize with you, but you have done nothing to 657 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 16: make me believe otherwise. You say you're distraught because Grace 658 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 16: won't have her mom to bring her to dances, but 659 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 16: you tell me who was really at fault. Did you 660 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 16: just get too mad at her? Did she try to 661 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 16: leave you? Jesus justin what the fuck? 662 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 8: She was one of my best. 663 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:33,399 Speaker 17: Friends, Erica. I could respond to this in a number 664 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 17: of ways, most of them would not make either of 665 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 17: us feel very good. But I will say this, Jessica 666 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 17: meant the world to me, always has, and if you 667 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 17: or anyone else wants to blame me, I totally understand, 668 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 17: and I'll tell you why. None of you have any 669 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 17: idea what the fuck I've been going through, but the 670 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 17: links I've gone to see that jess was taken care 671 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 17: of in every possible way. I've come to understand why 672 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 17: you all blame you. Through counseling and fighting to keep 673 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 17: my own sanity. 674 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,840 Speaker 1: By January twenty twenty, Justin sent his final text messages 675 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: to Erica. 676 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 17: I promise you. I miss Jessica minute to minute and 677 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 17: am really struggling with life. I swear my kids I 678 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,799 Speaker 17: didn't have anything to do with what happened. But what 679 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 17: else can I say or do to prove it. So 680 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 17: many people have been so busy making me out to 681 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,400 Speaker 17: be a monster. I really cannot believe it. Still, I 682 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 17: understand completely. It's hard to live here in some ways, 683 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,320 Speaker 17: and it's a comfort in a few others. Every morning 684 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 17: I wake up, I still think she's next to me 685 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 17: until I wake up, and it's like going through initial 686 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 17: shock every day for about thirty minutes until my brain 687 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 17: realizes what's happening. It's fucking torture, Erica. I really don't 688 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 17: want to be here. 689 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:57,359 Speaker 5: At all. 690 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: Undetermined is a production of Resonate recordings and Tenderfoot TV 691 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: in conjunction with Cadence thirteen, written and hosted by me 692 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: Jessica Nole and produced by Dennis Cooper and Todd McComas, 693 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: with additional production by Whitney Bozart. Executive producers are Dennis Cooper, 694 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: Mark Minnery, Jacob Bozart, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay. Our 695 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: senior producer is John Street. Editing, mixing, mastering and sound 696 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: design by Caleb Culcher, Dayton Cole and Pat kit Glider 697 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: of the Resonate Recordings team. If you have a podcast 698 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: or are looking to start one, check us out at 699 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: Resonate Recordings dot com. Our theme song and original score 700 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: is by Dirt Poor Robbins, with additional scoring by Dayton Cole. 701 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: Our cover art is by Station sixteen. Voice acting by Whitney, 702 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: Bozarth and Paul Friels. You can follow Undetermined Podcasts on 703 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: Facebook and on Twitter at Undetermined Pod. Show notes as 704 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: well as bonus content can be found on our website, 705 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: undetermined pod dot com. If you enjoyed this episode, please 706 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: take time to subscribe, rate, and review. Your feedback is 707 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: greatly appreciated. And finally, if you have any information about 708 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: this case, call crime Stoppers at one eight seven seven 709 00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: nine zero three seven eight. 710 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 5: The tone and 711 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: Inflection used by voice actors is not contextually accurate and 712 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: is a matter of creative interpretation.