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Speaker 1: Welcome. It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson

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Speaker 1: with you and Center, We've got one packed show for

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Speaker 1: people today.

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Speaker 2: Well, once again California has descended into chaos. We're seeing riots,

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Speaker 2: We're seeing cars lit on fire. We're seeing protesters waving

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Speaker 2: Mexican flags, waving flags of other countries and defying, assaulting

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Speaker 2: law enforcement. And amazingly, we're seeing a parade of Democrats

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Speaker 2: all lining up to say, we the Democrats, We're with

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Speaker 2: the rioters, that's the side we're on. Likewise, if you

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Speaker 2: think about the illegal alien that we saw a parade

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Speaker 2: of Democrats going down to El Salvador saying we're on

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Speaker 2: your side as well well, that particularly illegal alien has

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Speaker 2: been brought to America to be tried for human trafficking.

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Speaker 2: Is this is an amazing illustration of exactly where today's

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Speaker 2: Democrat party stands. And finally, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden's use of the auto pen u to the

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Speaker 2: autopen to sign legislation, use of the autopen to issue pardons.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean legally, what's the consequence of it,

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Speaker 2: and what does it mean that President Trump says he's

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Speaker 2: going to investigate it what happens next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to deal with that in a moment.

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Speaker 1: I also want to talk to you about your cell

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Speaker 1: to seven to Patriot All right, So, Senator, I just

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Speaker 1: want to be clear. There's no riots in California, peaceful

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Speaker 1: protesters out there. This is completely normal. Maybe there's some

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Speaker 1: cars on fire, maybe there's some Mexican flags being fund

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Speaker 1: by people that are angry that they're getting deported. You

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Speaker 1: cannot make up what democrats will defend.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, it's tragic. It's tragic. The chaos, the violence

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Speaker 2: that that that seems more and more commonplace in California,

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Speaker 2: that seems more and more to be to be the

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Speaker 2: face of today's Democrat Party. I want you just to

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Speaker 2: watch and see what is unfolding right now in California. Uh,

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles and and and this, this is this

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Speaker 2: is who today's left is.

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Speaker 3: Turning now to a Fox News alert. Anti ice protesters

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Speaker 3: are still riding in Los Angeles County and setting a

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Speaker 3: car on fire. You're looking at live pictures and a

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Speaker 3: mound California right now. In the last hour, borders are

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Speaker 3: Tom Homan told us they were sending in the National

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Speaker 3: Guard to California. You know, Lydia. The damage is just

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Speaker 3: striking here that we're seeing. We also have seen reports.

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Speaker 3: There's a Fox Los Angeles reporter who's just there on

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Speaker 3: seeing trying to cover this story. He said his car

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Speaker 3: was destroyed by protesters.

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Speaker 4: You know, let's hope that no one is hurt and

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Speaker 4: no one is injured and it doesn't escalate from here.

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Speaker 4: Look at the flag yet, guy, I say.

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Speaker 1: There it is Mexican flag, and you know.

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Speaker 4: You know, this is this is criminal activity that I

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Speaker 4: hope is people are held accountable for And I'm talking

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Speaker 4: about the riots right here.

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Speaker 5: Where are the cops?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Where are they? We heard earlier that Karen Bass,

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Speaker 4: the mayor of LA and allegation that she had prevented

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Speaker 4: the LAPD from responding yesterday when there was our first

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Speaker 4: developing guy for upwards of two hours or more. To

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Speaker 4: your point, where are the police?

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Speaker 5: Well, the officials in this part of the country, in

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Speaker 5: Los Angeles and California are too busy tripping over themselves

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Speaker 5: to attack Donald Trump and law enforcement. I guess those

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Speaker 5: are the cops back there to actually condemn these people

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Speaker 5: doing these things. And in the intro, Alicia, you said,

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Speaker 5: these are anti ICE protesters. Yes, but if you just squint,

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Speaker 5: it could easily be the BLM protesters, or the Free

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Speaker 5: Palestine protesters, or the resist Doge protesters, or the resist

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Speaker 5: ICE in this case protesters.

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Speaker 1: It is this dirt bag.

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Speaker 5: Coalition of leftist violent so called protest that has been

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Speaker 5: a huge problem in this country for years, and they

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Speaker 5: are escalating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Kanch, you don't see Democrats coming out with any

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Speaker 3: sort of outrage of the destruction here. Their outrage is

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Speaker 3: the opposite. It's over the ICE officials who are out there.

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Speaker 6: Let me give you five names where we're not hearing

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Speaker 6: a lot from right now except to attack these ICE officials,

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Speaker 6: which is leading to attacks like this. Karen Bass Los

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Speaker 6: Angeles Mayor Gavin Newsom, California Governor Adam shiff who's awfully

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Speaker 6: active on x and social media, condemning to guy's point,

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump not hearing anything from him. Eric swallwell as well,

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Speaker 6: you can't get away from this guy on social media

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Speaker 6: attacking Trump. Nancy Pelosi, the whole former House speaker, where

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Speaker 6: are you? This is war right now that we're seeing

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Speaker 6: in terms of our federal agents being attacked and California

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Speaker 6: officials doing nothing to stop it.

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Speaker 3: Now, it's going to be an incredibly bad look in

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Speaker 3: the next twenty four to forty eight hours if you

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Speaker 3: don't get the governor out there, if you don't get

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Speaker 3: someone out there to at least get people to stop,

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Speaker 3: because right now you have city leaders encouraging people to

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Speaker 3: join the resistance.

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Speaker 1: You have city leaders, let's just pick it up there,

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Speaker 1: encouraging people to go out there and do this. You

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Speaker 1: watch that video. There are a lot of Mexican flags.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to get my head around this.

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Speaker 2: So Ben, I have an idea. Let's you and me,

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Speaker 2: let's go illegally to France. Let's just break into France.

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Speaker 2: Once we get there, let's start rioting against France because

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Speaker 2: we hate France. Let's light the Eiffel Tower on fire.

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Speaker 2: Let's start waving the American flag around while we're lighting

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Speaker 2: the Eiffel Tower on fire, and let's say, don't you

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Speaker 2: dare send us back to America the flag we're flying,

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Speaker 2: because you have no right to decide if we get

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Speaker 2: to come into your country illegally. We can do anything

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Speaker 2: you want. And if you try to enforce your laws,

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Speaker 2: I guess we'll just light things on fire. And even better,

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Speaker 2: your elected officials would say, damn right, you keep burning.

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Speaker 1: And we'll send you more.

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Speaker 2: This is truly through the twilight zone and what is striking.

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Speaker 2: Let's break down several pieces of it. First of all,

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Speaker 2: let's take the media. So we saw Fox News where

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Speaker 2: they actually covered what's going on. Yes, I want to

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Speaker 2: contrast that with CNN because CNN, look, if you're a

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Speaker 2: propaganda outlet, you've got a message to get out, and

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Speaker 2: you know what the message is. Nothing to see here.

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Speaker 2: This is peaceful. This is fine.

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Speaker 1: I mean they are famous, famous for the police station

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Speaker 1: being on fire, remember that in the summer of rage,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, it's fiery but peace Yeah, fiery but

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Speaker 1: peaceful protests here.

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Speaker 2: So all right, I want you to watch CNN covering

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Speaker 2: this same riot.

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Speaker 7: Watch So there's unrest. Let's start with there's protest, lawful protest,

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Speaker 7: which is allowed in this country. There is some unrest

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Speaker 7: generally dealt with by local law enforcement, and that there

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Speaker 7: needs to be state support through state police and sometimes

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Speaker 7: even National Guard under a governor's authority. What is happening

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Speaker 7: tonight is unprecedent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love it. She's like, it's unrest. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't say that. Hold on, I got to back

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Speaker 1: that up. And this is just peaceful and that is

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Speaker 1: something that is protected and we're totally fine with this.

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Speaker 2: Like she admitted unrest and immediately had to run away

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Speaker 2: from it. Yeah, and I got to say it's striking. Also,

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Speaker 2: the video that they don't show anything on fire there,

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Speaker 2: they've learned the less and where during during the Antifa

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Speaker 2: and Black Lives Matter riots where they literally put on

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Speaker 2: If you don't remember this, they had a video to

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Speaker 2: an entire store on fire, and their chiron said, uh,

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Speaker 2: fiery but peaceful.

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Speaker 1: Protests as buildings are burning.

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Speaker 2: It is they've got a message. And and and look

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Speaker 2: in the first video on Fox where the folks are talking,

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Speaker 2: they say, where are the cops? And you see way,

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Speaker 2: mister top a block a block away, and yet there

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Speaker 2: are no police officers anywhere near the protesters, no police

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Speaker 2: officers anywhere near the car that's on fire.

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Speaker 1: And it's clear it goes back to leadership. That's the

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Speaker 1: question I want to ask you. You look at this,

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Speaker 1: you're allowing.

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Speaker 2: You may or ordered them to stay away.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I want to be that that was a

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Speaker 1: question I want to ask you.

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Speaker 2: Of course, of course, of course, But here you're and

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Speaker 2: my friend Dana Bash, she's got to jump in now

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Speaker 2: and really defend what's going on here here.

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Speaker 1: Give a listen.

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Speaker 8: It's pretty bad.

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Speaker 9: That's a different question. But I just I just want

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Speaker 9: to just stay for the record that what did happen

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Speaker 9: in nineteen ninety two was so different from what we're

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Speaker 9: seeing now. I mean that was that was a real,

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Speaker 9: a real riot that went all across the city of

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Speaker 9: Los Angeles after a verdict in the Rodney King case,

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Speaker 9: this is a situation where the La County La County Police,

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Speaker 9: it's not good, but they're saying that they have it

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Speaker 9: under control, and the and the President is sending national.

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Speaker 8: Troops in a way that we can look at it. Obviously,

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Speaker 8: we see that it is not under control. It's not

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Speaker 8: under control. You and I both see that it's not

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Speaker 8: under control. And a riot is a right. They're throwing

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Speaker 8: they're throwing all types of objects at law enforcement. And

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Speaker 8: the President is absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: By the way, you ask the people whose cars and

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Speaker 1: buildings are on fire if this is a riot or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Dana told us it's not real. It's not really, it's

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Speaker 2: a fake. You know, they are familiar with fakes. They

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Speaker 2: are experts in fakes. You know, it really is striking.

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Speaker 2: This has nothing to see here, not a real riot.

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Speaker 2: It's all okay. And then she says, well, okay, it's

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Speaker 2: not good.

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Speaker 1: But it's nothing like a real riot back in the

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Speaker 1: old days in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: And look, there have been multiple arrests because you have

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Speaker 2: these protesters are actively aggressively trying to stop ice from

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Speaker 2: carrying out their jobs, from enforcing immigration laws. One of

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Speaker 2: the people arrested was the president of the SEIU union

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Speaker 2: who was arrested for physically actively stopping federal agents from

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Speaker 2: carrying out their jobs. Now what is the reaction of

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Speaker 2: Democrat politicians. Well, here, take a look.

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Speaker 10: The reality is we see peaceful protests launching in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 10: and again, any violence against police officers should not be accepted.

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Speaker 10: Local authorities can handle that. But remember a lot of

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Speaker 10: these peaceful protests are being generated because the President of

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Speaker 10: the United States is so in case and confusion by

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Speaker 10: arresting people who are showing up for their immigration hearings.

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Speaker 1: They other aren't peaceful, don't they.

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Speaker 2: So the phrase peaceful protests, which they say repeatedly and

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Speaker 2: noticed that. So that was Corey Booker, and he's saying, well, look,

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Speaker 2: you can't commit violence against cops. Look, I'm glad he

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Speaker 2: says that in part because they've seen where these riots go.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time he's repeatedly saying what CNN

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Speaker 2: is saying, which is it's only the governor and local

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Speaker 2: law enforcement that can do it. Nothing federal because President

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Speaker 2: Trump has called up the National Guard, and they are

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Speaker 2: so unhappy that we're actually going to see these violent protesters.

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Speaker 2: Will be stopped from terrorizing the communities they're engaged with.

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Speaker 2: And that's a nightmare scenario for the Democrats because anytime

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Speaker 2: you have violence like this, they are on the side

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Speaker 2: of the violence.

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Speaker 1: Do you notice Booker also said the beginnings that we've

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Speaker 1: talked about how orchestra tray Democrats are when they do

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Speaker 1: these things on college campuses where there's people behind him

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Speaker 1: in advocacy. Booker said, this.

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Speaker 2: You're suggesting the people who are paying for this are

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Speaker 2: also paying for the Democrats are going on TV to fin.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Cory Booker seems to have some pretty good

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Speaker 1: insider information that this is the quote beginning his words,

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Speaker 1: not mine, of something big like this is the beginning.

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Speaker 1: And he said that on Sunday morning, after a weekend

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Speaker 1: of this violence, the beginning. So you got to ask

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Speaker 1: the question are they all in on it?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, you know, you look at so much of

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Speaker 2: today's Democrat Party that's paid for by George Soros that

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Speaker 2: it kind of makes you wonder if it's now George

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Speaker 2: Zorro and it is all about go back, and they

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Speaker 2: want California to secede from America and go back to Mexico.

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Speaker 2: But look, Corey Booker was not alone. Give another Listen.

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Speaker 11: Every single ICE agent who's engaged in this aggressive overreach,

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Speaker 11: and I'm trying to hide their identities from the American

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Speaker 11: people will be unsuccessful in doing that.

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Speaker 1: This is America.

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Speaker 11: It is not the Soviet Union, but not behind the

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Speaker 11: Iron curtain. This is not the nineteen thirties, And every

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Speaker 11: single one of them, no matter what it takes, no

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Speaker 11: matter how long it takes, will of course be identified.

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Speaker 1: As I have a dad who's spent the majority of

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Speaker 1: his life in law enforcement. That is a threat, yes

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Speaker 1: to law enforcement. Yes, that we're going to make sure

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Speaker 1: that everyone that hates you knows who you are, where

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Speaker 1: you live, who your kids may be, who your wife is,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to make you feel in safe for

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Speaker 1: doing your job.

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Speaker 2: Look, that is grotesque. It's one of the most grotesque

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Speaker 2: things I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: That's a king.

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Speaker 2: Jeffries, the Democrat leader in the House of Representatives, and

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Speaker 2: he's not hiding what he's saying. He is threatening to

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Speaker 2: docks to expose, to reveal the identities of federal law

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Speaker 2: enforcement agents ICE because he wants threats, he wants violence,

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Speaker 2: he wants intimidation, he wants violence, an intimidation directed at

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Speaker 2: federal law enforcement. That is grotesque. By the way, the

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Speaker 2: Mayor of Boston analogized Ice to Nazis. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: that is understand today's Democrat party. This is not your

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Speaker 2: grandfather's Democrat party. This is a Democrat party. Now. If

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Speaker 2: you are an illegal alien, if you are a gang member,

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Speaker 2: if you are a murderer, if you are a rapist,

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Speaker 2: the Democrats stand with you. If you're a police officer,

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Speaker 2: the Democrats are not with you. If you are an

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Speaker 2: ICE agent, they are not with you. If you're a

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Speaker 2: border patrol agent, they are not with you. If you

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Speaker 2: are enforcing the law, they are not with you. And

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Speaker 2: listen to what Corey Booker said. Corey Booker said, well,

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Speaker 2: Trump is causing it because he's enforcing the law.

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Speaker 1: Because yeah, because enforcing the law, it is well. And

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Speaker 1: then you got to look at Newsom. I mean, look

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Speaker 1: at Newsom. We had this very interesting rebranding. I would

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Speaker 1: call it Newsom maybe three point zero four point zero.

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Speaker 1: He's rebranded himself a lot. He's really good at it.

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Speaker 2: He's pretending to be a he's suddenly discovered that boys

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Speaker 2: and girls exist. It's really remarkable because you know, twelve

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Speaker 2: seconds ago he didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: And yet here's his true colors yet again. So here's

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Speaker 1: what he tweeted out.

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Speaker 2: He says, the federal government is taking over the California

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Speaker 2: National Guard and deploying two thousand soldiers in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: not because there's a shortage of law enforcement, but because

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Speaker 2: they want a spectacle. Don't give them one. Never use violence,

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Speaker 2: speak out peacefully. So understand the end of that. Speak

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Speaker 2: out peacefully. He's calling for I'm the governor. I want

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Speaker 2: more riots. They're not enough of you out there, more

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Speaker 2: and more and more. Somebody gets sorrows online too. George,

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Speaker 2: we need more money. Can you send out more protests now?

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Speaker 2: That is his message, and they are furious, furious with

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Speaker 2: President Trump for actually defending the communities. Look, we saw

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Speaker 2: in that first video the law enforcement, the police officers

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Speaker 2: are ordered don't do anything about it, don't keep people safe.

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Speaker 2: We've seen, by the way, we've seen this video before.

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Speaker 2: We saw it during the Antifa in Black Lives Matter riots,

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Speaker 2: where where again Democrat mayors, Democrat governors prevented law enforcement

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Speaker 2: from doing their jobs. And by the way, look.

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Speaker 1: Well, and the word is on the street that local

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Speaker 1: I mean local law enforcement. We're told on Saturday and

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Speaker 1: Friday night stand down, like, don't get involved, let them

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Speaker 1: do what they're gonna do. If that turns out to

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Speaker 1: be like the entire policy of LA and the local

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Speaker 1: government there, doesn't that give even more credence to Wine.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump should send in the National Guard.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And look, I will give those Democrats credit for

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Speaker 2: being the voice of reason, the voice of moderation. I

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Speaker 2: want you to listen to this, this very careful, calm

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Speaker 2: measured analysis from a Democrat California congress woman. She's assessing

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Speaker 2: the situation carefully. She's trying to balance competing interests, trying

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Speaker 2: to protect property and lives, and give a listen to

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Speaker 2: what she has to say.

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Speaker 3: I skip the coality so that order defy stored there.

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Speaker 1: It is if ICE would just leave and all the

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Speaker 1: illegal immigrants can do what they want to do. And

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Speaker 1: we've had no crime problems in California in the last

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Speaker 1: year or so.

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Speaker 2: So understand their message. Also, they do not want federal

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Speaker 2: immigration laws enforced. She wants ICE out of the state.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, to be clear, her message also

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Speaker 2: every illegal alien in America, please come to California. Because

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Speaker 2: that's who she represents. That is and I don't even

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Speaker 2: know that congresswoman. She's one of the many left at California.

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Speaker 2: They blur together. You know, she has has Look I

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Speaker 2: give her credit. Apparently she's volunteering to join AOC and

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Speaker 2: ilhan Omar and the other kooks to be the face

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Speaker 2: of today Democrat party.

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Speaker 1: This is sad. Final question on this. You look at

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Speaker 1: the present's decisions in the National Guard, and you look

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Speaker 1: at Democrats now clearly wanting a fight, They're wanting more

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Speaker 1: illegals to come out. Is this one of those things

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Speaker 1: where they think this is a positive nationwide? I mean,

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Speaker 1: how could you think that burning down cities, attacking your

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Speaker 1: neighbor's property, burning cars, attacking law enforcement somehow a political win.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand that while you're riding a motorcycle around

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Speaker 2: a burning car, waving a Mexican flag bingo. Look at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, apparently those individuals and we

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Speaker 2: saw Mexican flags everywhere you look. Apparently those individuals they

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Speaker 2: want America to be Mexico. What else do you And

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Speaker 2: by the way, look, Mexico is a beautiful country. If

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Speaker 2: you want to go to Mexico go to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: But if you want to fly the flag, go to Mexico.

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Speaker 2: But you don't have a right to defy federal law

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Speaker 2: to come here illegally. And yet that is, at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, that is what today's Democrat Party

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Speaker 2: stands for. It is their core belief, it is their

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Speaker 2: reason for being. And you asked if they think this

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Speaker 2: is a winning message, Well, it depends who you're talking to.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking to your radicals, if you're talking to

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Speaker 2: your zealots, if you're.

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Speaker 1: Talking to the fun the stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, If you're talking to the big, big money donors, yes,

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Speaker 2: that's a winning message. If you're talking to the people

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Speaker 2: who wrote checks on the anti Israel and anti America

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Speaker 2: protests and college campuses, it's a great message.

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Speaker 1: If you're actually.

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Speaker 2: Talking to ordinary Americans, if you're talking to soccer moms,

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Speaker 2: if you're talking to people who would like their kids say,

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Speaker 2: if you're talking to people who don't really want to

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Speaker 2: see their neighborhoods lit on fire, I question, as Brea

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Speaker 2: Roberts said, throw me in that brier patch. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: I question if they're gonna be happy with this decision

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Speaker 2: come next election.

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Speaker 1: Day, which brings me to story number two, and it's

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Speaker 1: one that is just maybe one of I laughed when

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Speaker 1: I saw the news. I thought this was a brilliant

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Speaker 1: move by the Trump administration. Democrats have been obsessed with

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Speaker 1: the Maryland father, the Maryland man who just happened to

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Speaker 1: get deported, who was an illegal immigrant, who was caught

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Speaker 1: human smuggling through my home state of Tennessee. And they

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Speaker 1: act like it never happened. And now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: we're like they were demanding you bring him home, bring

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Speaker 1: him back to America. Well, guess what, the dude's coming home.

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Speaker 2: He is indeed, and he has been brought to be prosecuted.

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Speaker 2: He has been indicted. He has been indicted for human trafficking.

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Speaker 1: Wait, I thought he was just a Maryland dad, not

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Speaker 1: a human trafficker.

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Speaker 2: Well, I will tell you. I'm holding the indictment in

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Speaker 2: my hand and it is stunning. So how long was

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Speaker 2: he a human trafficker? Well, according to the indictment, from

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Speaker 2: in Or around twenty sixteen through inn Or around twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five, So for nine years.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty good career.

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Speaker 2: Kilmar Armando Abrego, Garcia and others known and unknown to

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Speaker 2: the grand jury conspired to bring undocumented aliens to the

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Speaker 2: United States from countries such as Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Ecuador,

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Speaker 2: and elsewhere, ultimately passing through Mexico before crossing into Texas.

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Speaker 2: Very nice they came into Texas. The co conspirators knew

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Speaker 2: the undocumented aliens did not possess authorization to enter the

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Speaker 2: United States. They used cell phones, they used social media applications.

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Speaker 2: The indictment also allegesed Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was a

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Speaker 2: citizen of El Salvador, was not a United States citizen,

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Speaker 2: was living in the United States, and was also a

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Speaker 2: member and associate of the transnational criminal organization MS thirteen.

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Speaker 1: No, he's a dad. Hold on a second, you can't

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Speaker 1: say that this is just a Maryland dude, Maryland dad,

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Speaker 1: Maryland man.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, they accurately describe MS thirteen. MS

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Speaker 2: thirteen was a criminal enterprise engaged in, among other activities,

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Speaker 2: acts and threats involving murder, extortion, narcotics, trafficking, firearms trafficking,

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Speaker 2: alien smuggling, and money laundering. MS thirteen operated throughout North

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Speaker 2: and Central America, including in El Salvador, Guatemalica, Mexico, the

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Speaker 2: United States, including in Texas, Maryland, New York, Tennessee, and elsewhere. Now,

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Speaker 2: how many illegal aliens do you think he's charged with smuggling?

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming zero because he's just a Maryland man. He's

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Speaker 1: just a Maryland dad.

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Speaker 2: He's a Maryland dad. I want to read this paragraph.

435
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 2: Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, as detailed further below, used his

436
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: status in MS thirteen to further his criminal activity.

437
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: Right, not as a father or dad, as a MS

438
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: thirteen gang member.

439
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: Over the course of the conspiracy, the co conspirators knowingly

440
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 2: and unlawfully transported wait for it, thousands of undocumented aliens,

441
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: many of whom were MS thirteen members and associates.

442
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: So you're bringing in people that are now a member

443
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: of a terrorist organization into the country. So not just

444
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: random buel pang. He was smuggling in members of the

445
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: Town organization in the United States America for not one year,

446
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: not two, not three, not four, five years, but nine years. Yes.

447
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: And and look, the fact that DOJ brought this indictment

448
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: means presumably they have the evidence to prove this indictment.

449
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: They're going to put on that evidence they're gonna put

450
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: on that evidence that this guy was a gang member

451
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 2: for nine years, that he was part of a conspiracy

452
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: that smuggled thousands of people illegally, including other gang members.

453
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: You think the media is gonna apologize for anither stories

454
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: or attacking Trump and saying that he just sent a

455
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: Maryland dad a Maryland man.

456
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: And understand, this is the same the same illegal immigrant

457
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: that my colleague Chris van Holland, Democrat from Maryland, flew

458
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: down and had really what was a very sweet margarita

459
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: with I mean it was a Broman.

460
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: It was a moment. It was a bro moment, you.

461
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 2: Know, as I tweeted out at the time, you know,

462
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: find somebody who looks at you the way Democrats look

463
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: at illegal alien MS thirteen gang members, like the sweet

464
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 2: nothings in his eyes as he looked on. And by

465
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: the way, you saw Democrat House members, you know, all

466
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: on a parade to go down there.

467
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: They wanted to use your tax dollars to go see

468
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: the Maryland man.

469
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: This is the face of the Democrat Party, this is

470
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: who they stand for. So look, you ought to ask

471
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: yourself at home, am I an MS thirteen gang member

472
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: who's a human trafficker, who smuggles in thousands of illegal aliens,

473
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: who smuggles in gang members. If so the Democrats of

474
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: the party, for me, if you're not, if you kind

475
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: of think we don't want human traffickers and gang members

476
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: in America, well then I don't know what the Democrats is.

477
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: This like the ultimate FAFO like moment, because for Democrats,

478
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: and I want people to understand the funniest part of

479
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: the story, Democrats demanded we bring him back. He's coming back,

480
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: gonna go to jail for a long time, and then

481
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: after he serves his time, apparently we're gonna send him

482
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: right back to the country where he just came from.

483
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: But it didn't just go from bad to worse, like

484
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: he would have been better off just staying where he was.

485
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: Look at, Democrats actually are putting this man.

486
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: In jail, and these facts, the facts that prove he

487
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: was a human trafficker, the facts and evidence that DJ

488
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 2: is gonna put on. I hope and believe the American

489
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: people need to know those facts because they need to know. Look,

490
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: we've already in this podcast cover how the guy is

491
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: allegedly a wife beater, that he has a long history

492
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: of criminality. We played the audio of him being caught

493
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: human trafficking, but at the time we didn't know that

494
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: there was a decade worth of thousands of people being trafficked,

495
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: including other gang members. What you wish for, right and

496
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: by the way, to understand, Look, I don't know specifically

497
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: what this gang member did, but I'll tell you MS

498
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: thirteen when they are human trafficking, they are raping women,

499
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: they are raping children. They are abusing women and children

500
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: that they are abusing, little boys, little girls.

501
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: They're soulists. They do not care about human life.

502
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: Here it is MS thirteen is evil and in Texas

503
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: we see the atrocities they carry out. I fully expect

504
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: the evidence that comes out in this trial to be

505
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: nothing short of horrifying. And I got to say, if

506
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: you're a Democrat and you've decided the entire future of

507
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: your party is defending this guy, yeah, you know what's weird, Ben,

508
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: I'm not sure the Democrats.

509
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: Are worried right now. I don't think they are.

510
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the strangest thing it is in the

511
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: face of this.

512
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: There used to be in politics moments where you knew

513
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: you screwed up. Were even your party look, they're all

514
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: in on California and still on defending this guy.

515
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: Their position is is that one Democrat congresswoman said, law enforcement,

516
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: get the f out. That's their message. No cops, no ICEN,

517
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: open border patrol, We don't defend, we don't defend California.

518
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: We don't know America guys, but gang members and murderers europeeps.

519
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: Amazing. I want to move to one final issue, and

520
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: it's one that has gotten a lot of attention in

521
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: conservative circles. It's certainly one that the media just refuses

522
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: to talk about. And the President clearly wanted to use

523
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: the power this week of his microphone to bring up

524
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: the issue of the auto pen. When it comes to

525
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: Joe Biden investigating what did he know, when did he

526
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: know it? Did he have any clue what he was

527
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: signing with the autopen, was even directing the autopen to

528
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: be used? Or were there people that were literally playing

529
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: President yep that were saying, I want to hook this

530
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: political favor up, or this pardon up, or this piece

531
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: of legislature, this executive order up, and he had no

532
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: idea what was even happening.

533
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: Well, and President Trump did a really good job explaining

534
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: this at the Oval office this past week. Give a listen.

535
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 9: The predecessor dismissed your autopin investigation.

536
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 12: He said he made all the decisions during his presidency.

537
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 12: I'm curious a reaction to his dismissal. Well, look to

538
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 12: the autopen.

539
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 13: I think is the big scandal outside of the rigged

540
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 13: election of twenty twenty. I think the biggest scandal of

541
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 13: the last many years is the autopen and who's using it.

542
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 13: I happen to think I know, okay, because I'm here

543
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 13: and I'm not a big odo pen person fortune I'm glad.

544
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 12: I'm very glad. It's an easy way out. But it's

545
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 12: a very bad thing, very dangerous.

546
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 4: You know.

547
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 12: I sign important documents.

548
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 13: Usually when they put documents in front of you, they're important,

549
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 13: even if you're signing ambassadorships or and I consider that important.

550
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 12: I think it's inappropriate.

551
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 13: You have somebody that's devoting four years of their life

552
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 13: or more to being an best and I think you

553
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 13: really deserve that person deserves to get a real signature,

554
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 13: not an autopen signature. And I can tell autopen easily.

555
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 13: I can look at it like two little pinholes. From

556
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 13: pulling the paper right, you will see the pinholes. It's

557
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 13: real easy to tell about autopen. I think it's very

558
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 13: disrespectful to people when they get an autopen signature outside.

559
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 13: Autopen to me are used when thousands of letters come

560
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 13: in from young people all over the country and you

561
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 13: want to get them back, and you know, people use

562
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 13: autopens for that to send a little signature at the

563
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 13: bottom of a letter.

564
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 12: We have thousands of them.

565
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 13: We get thousands of letters a week, and it's not

566
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 13: possible to you know, I'd like to do it myself,

567
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 13: you can't do it to me.

568
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 12: That's where auto pens start and stop.

569
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 13: But I don't think I'm sure that he didn't know

570
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 13: many of the things. Look, he was never for open borders,

571
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 13: he was never for transgender for everybody. He was never

572
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 13: for men playing in women's sports. I mean he changed,

573
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 13: I mean all of these things that change so radically.

574
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 13: I don't think he had any idea that what was Frankly,

575
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 13: I said it during the debate and I say it now.

576
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 12: He didn't have much of an idea what was going on.

577
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 12: He shouldn't be.

578
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 13: I mean, essentially, whoever used the autopen was the president,

579
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 13: and that is wrong. It's illegal, it's so bad, and

580
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 13: it's so disrespectful.

581
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: To our I look at what he said there, and

582
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: I go back to something that is, you've seen autopin.

583
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: Do you have the autopin? I've never asked you that. Yeah, okay.

584
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: So I've gone an office before to get a birthday

585
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: card or something done. When I worked in DC, people

586
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: would come over and say, hey, can we get this written.

587
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: It's somebody's seventieth anniversary or save you birthday, and they'll go, yeah, sure,

588
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: and they'll put it together and they'll get it autopin signed.

589
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: Because there's so many requests like this. But he's right,

590
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 1: being the president, it's America, there's a lot of If

591
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: it's being put in front of you, it probably deserves

592
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: a signature. If it's making it to be in front of.

593
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: You, well, let's draw a distinction. First of all, let

594
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: me explain what an autopen is.

595
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 9: It.

596
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: It's a machine where literally you have a mechanical arm

597
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: that holds a pan, typically a sharpie. Most most signatures

598
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: are used with sharpies. And so I've got an autopen

599
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: as far as I know, I think every member of

600
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: Congress has.

601
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: So my birthday card you're telling me was not real

602
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: when I.

603
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: Made fun of you that that that was definitely written

604
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: by me, and uh, but but you use it for

605
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: you know, correspondence. I mean, in my time in the Senate,

606
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: I've literally gotten millions of letters from constituents and we

607
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: send out millions of letters in response. And so you

608
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 2: could spend literally every waking moment doing nothing but signing

609
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: that correspondence. And so what you do instead, Every congressional

610
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: office has a correspondence office where for a given topic,

611
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: if you ask me about illegal immigration, we have a

612
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 2: letter in the office where that lays out your plans,

613
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: my views on illegal immigration, and they're the policy team

614
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: helps draft those and they get approved. You know, I

615
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: suspect we'll have a letter shortly on on these these

616
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: la riots and and and what's happening there. Whatever the

617
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: topics are that people are writing in on. A congressional

618
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: office will prepare a letter that's response responsive to it,

619
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: and those will get auto pen That is very different

620
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: from something that requires a signature to have legal effect,

621
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: and they're really.

622
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: That's a great distinction, a way of describing it.

623
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: There are three category categories that are consequential here pardons,

624
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: executive orders and laws, and let me break all three

625
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: of these down, because there's real legal significance in the

626
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: in the in the question that President Trump is raising,

627
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: all right, first of all, pardons that there are a

628
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: whole bunch of folks that that Joe Biden.

629
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: Pardoned controversial pardons, by the way.

630
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: So including so on the same day Joe Biden pardon

631
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: Anthony Fauci, he pardoned General Millie, former Chairman of the

632
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: Joint Chiefs of Staff, and then he pardoned every member

633
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: of the January sixth Commission. So he pardoned Benny Thompson

634
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: and Liz Cheney and Zoe Lofgram and Adam Schiff and

635
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: Pete Aguilar, Stephanie Murphy and Jamie Raskin and Aline Laurier

636
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: and Adam Kinsinger.

637
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: And by the way, they were they were begging for

638
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: these pardons.

639
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: All nine of them got pardoned. It's being reported now

640
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: that that the one pardon that Biden signed personally was

641
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: his son Hunter Biden's pardon, but that all of the

642
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: rest of these pardons were auto penned. And here's what

643
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: President Trump tweeted out. He said, quote the pardons that

644
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: Sleepy Joe gave to the Unselect Committee of Political thugs

645
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: and many others. I gotta say, I love nobody writes

646
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: like Donald Trump are hereby declared void, vacant, and of

647
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: no further force or effect because of the fact that

648
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 2: they were done by auto pen In other words, Joe

649
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: Biden did not sign them, but more importantly, he did

650
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: not know anything about them. The necessary pardoning documents were

651
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: not explained to or approved by Biden. Now let's talk

652
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: about pardons first. So pardons do not have to be

653
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: in writing. Okay, if you look at the language of

654
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: the Constitution, Article two, Section two, clause one says, in

655
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 2: relevant part, the President shall have power to grant reprieves

656
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: and pardons for offenses against the United States. So the

657
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: Constitution does not specify any particular form of a pardon.

658
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: It doesn't specify it has to be in writing. It

659
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: simply says the President shall have power to grant reprieves

660
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: and pardons. So with respect to pardons, whether it's signed

661
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: or not, that's not a constitutional requirement. But what is

662
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: a constitutional requirement is that the president granted. Interesting, and

663
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: so what President Trump alleged is Biden didn't know about this,

664
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was doing. It was not his decision.

665
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 2: I think it is entirely possible that we will see

666
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: the Department of Justice prosecute someone who has received one

667
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: of these autopen pardons. Really, if they prosecute someone, it's

668
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: going to be someone for whom there is clear evidence

669
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: of a federal criminal violation. But also it will be

670
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:28,959
Speaker 2: someone who there is evidence that Biden didn't know about it, so.

671
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: They would have to bring to do that, they would

672
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: have to bring evidence he didn't know about it. And

673
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: then does that kick off the big grand debate and

674
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: the investigation because you bring those charges to say, okay,

675
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: let's see if you can prove that he did know

676
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: about it.

677
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: So look, if DOJ brought an indictment against someone that

678
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 2: Biden had pardon using an autopen, the defense lawyer would

679
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: almost immediately seek to get the indictment dismissed because the

680
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: pard sure, and I would expect the court to litigate that.

681
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: DOJ would argue, this is not a valid pardon because

682
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: it was not issued by the president. It was issued

683
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: by a staffer manning the autopenner. And the question would

684
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: be did Joe Biden approve and authorize it personally or

685
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: was this just the staff.

686
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: They just said, Hey, get my buddy or our friend

687
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: or our colleague or our ally this.

688
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: So for example, they would look to all right, did

689
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: Biden make public statements about it? Was he interview, did

690
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: he stand at a podium? What did he say? Because

691
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: that would go to was he aware of it? And

692
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 2: did he approve it? Now, let's focus on statutes. Can

693
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: the president sign a law to have it become a

694
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 2: federal law by autopen and not by signature? And here

695
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: actually the question is actually pretty similar to the pardon question.

696
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: It comes down to what Biden knew. So actually, in

697
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: two thousand and five, the US Department of Justice, the

698
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: Office Legal Counsel, they issued a formal opinion whether the

699
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: president may sign a bill by directing that his signature

700
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: be affixed to it. And the summary of the conclusion

701
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: was the president need not personally perform the physical act

702
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and

703
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: decides to sign in order for the bill to become law. Rather,

704
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: the president may sign a bill within the meeting of

705
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: Article one, section seven by directing a subordinate to affix

706
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: the President's signature to such bill, for example, by autopen.

707
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: And here the statutory languages is, or rather the constitutional

708
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: language is more explicit. So here's what Article one, section

709
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: seven says. Quote, every bill which shall have passed the

710
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: House of Representatives and the Senate shall, before it becomes

711
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 2: a law, be presented to the President of the United States.

712
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 2: If he approves, he shall sign it. So sign it

713
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: is explicitly there. You can't orally sure sign a law.

714
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: You have to sign it.

715
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: But that's why bill signs are such a big deal.

716
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: What the Department of Justice concluded, and this is a

717
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: lengthy opinion, is the settled understanding of the meaning of

718
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: sign an individual can sign a document by directing that

719
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: his signature be affixed to it by another. And so

720
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: they conclude this settled understanding of the meaning of sign

721
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: leads us to conclude that Article one, section seven permits

722
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: the president to sign a bill by directing a subordinate

723
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: to affix the President's signature to it. Now, I've got

724
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: to say, as a legal matter, I think there's a

725
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: there's a strong case to be made that that is

726
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: accurate that you can authorize someone to sign a binding

727
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 2: legal document for you. If you're the decision.

728
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: Maker and you say, hey, I'm on a plane is

729
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: a great example national emergency worst case scenario, and you

730
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: say sign that right now to do what X, Y

731
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: or Z.

732
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 2: And let me give you an example I have personal

733
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: experience with so as you know, when I can. I'm

734
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: out of law school. I was a law clerk for

735
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: Chief Justice William Renquist on the U. S.

736
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: Supreme Court.

737
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: And every time there is an execution in this country,

738
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: almost without fail, there are emergency appeals that go to

739
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court, and they often will go and be

740
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: concluded at midnight or one or two or three in

741
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 2: the morning, because typically the death warrant is carried out

742
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 2: right before midnight, and so the appeals are filed last minute.

743
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: And so when that happens, there is a law clerk

744
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: from every justice that remains at the court till the

745
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: matter is resolved. And the Chief Justice had jurisdiction over

746
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: the DC Circuit, but also the Fourth Circuit, which covers

747
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: a number of states that have capital punishment. And so

748
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: when the execution occurs in the circuit that your justice

749
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: is the lead for, the justices will vote. They do

750
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: it by phone. So you will read the emergency appeals,

751
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: you'll summarize the emergency appeals you'll call your justice, wake

752
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: him or her up, explain the issues, and then the

753
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: justices will vote. At the end of the process. The

754
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: very last thing that happens in the process is there

755
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: is a form that is sent to the prison. And

756
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: there were multiple essentially death warrants that I signed, and

757
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: I would sign them WHR slash TC. WHR was William

758
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: Hubb's renquist. So I'm signing for the Chief Justice s

759
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: slash TC because the chief was home in bed, so

760
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: he was not physically signing it. But because I had

761
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: authorization to sign it, you'd literally put it on then

762
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: a fax machine and at the prison they'd pull it

763
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 2: off the fax machine and that signature that I had

764
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: signed for the Chief Justice was sufficient to carry out

765
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: an execution.

766
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: The TC at the end is that just to clarify

767
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: that you did it on behalf of it, okay.

768
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: And you see that sometimes secretaries when they sign for

769
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: someone will do the same thing and put with the

770
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: slash to say who is signing it? What I would

771
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: say the critical question in terms of a law. Look,

772
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: there will be an argument that the word sign in

773
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: the Constitution means sign and so it's not a frivolous

774
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: argument that the auto pen can't do it in any circumstance,

775
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 2: and I would expect that potentially made. But the more

776
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 2: powerful argument is did the president direct that his signature

777
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: be affixed to it?

778
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: Or did a or did a stafford go roke?

779
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 2: Did a stafford just say yep, this is our policy,

780
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 2: so put it in the autopen, it's signed, and listen.

781
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: White houses keep records. You've worked in a White House,

782
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: they keep meticulous.

783
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: Records, especially on this level.

784
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: And so I fully expect there to be litigation questioning

785
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: looking for a statute where where there is not clear

786
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: indication that Biden was aware of it, that he made

787
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: a decision to sign it, but rather that simply you

788
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: had a White House staffer say Okay, this is our policy,

789
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: let's sign it. And if that's the case, I think

790
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: there's If the president did not direct that his signature

791
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: be affixed to it, I think there's a real argument

792
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: that is not a law that is not validly in

793
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: the United States Code, that law is null and void.

794
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: I think that.

795
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's not sufficient for the president

796
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: at the outset to say hey, I support this law.

797
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

798
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 2: That's different from you can say you support all sorts

799
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: of law. Sure, that's different from making the decision I

800
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: am going to sign this law right now. Look, there

801
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: are all sorts of laws that you could say you support,

802
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: but the legislative process is like sausage making. You don't

803
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: even know what's in the thing till it passes. And

804
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: so finding early statements from Biden that I support such

805
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: and such policy is not enough. I expect the question

806
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: to be And by the way, you don't have to

807
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: wait for litigation, because Donald Trump has access to all

808
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: of the White House records that will show did Biden

809
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: make those decisions. That's why ordering that investigation is so strong,

810
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: because if they find a law that there is no

811
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: record of Joe Biden saying I want to sign this,

812
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: and I am directing you to sign this, then I

813
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: think there's a real argument that law is not validly enacted.

814
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: It's incredible. We're gonna keep covering it. Don't forget. We

815
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: do this show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Hit that subscriber

816
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: auto download button so you do not miss an episode. Also,

817
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: if you're watching this episode on YouTube, make sure you

818
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: subscribe on YouTube as well. As we put these out

819
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: so you don't miss them either, tell your family, tell

820
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: your friends about this show and the Senate, and I

821
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: will see you back here in a couple of days