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So joining me now is 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.200 who's frankly has got the passion that I'm trying to 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.880 bring to this podcast, and you know which is to 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.920 focus on how do we get out of this current 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.680 mess we're in. We all know we're in a mess. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.840 We have disagreements about why we're polarized. We have disagreements 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.720 about whether the current situation is sort of a symptom 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.280 of something larger or whether the current actors are the 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.440 problems themselves. I've obviously been focused on the media side 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.079 of things. My guest today is a very familiar name 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.880 to those of you that are political junkies. Jack dan Forth, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:25.280 former Republican senator from Missouri, an episcopal priest. And I 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.760 bring that up because, as you know, as many of 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.280 my listeners know, Senator, I've been yearning for what I 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:35.920 call for a pastor for patriotism. I feel like America 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.960 needs somebody to help us. They're just sort of renew 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:47.080 civics and renew sort of what we understood America to be. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.399 That it was an idea, it's not an ethnicity, there's 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.680 not a religious thing. And boy, there's nobody that could 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:57.680 speak better to this moment. I wish you were thirty 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.920 years younger right now, and let's run you for breadth 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.560 it right, trust me, we all want to be twenty. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.000 Three other reasons. Yeah, yes, so. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.200 But your your focus is trying to rehabilitate the Republican Party. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:11.760 Walk me through what your focus is. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:19.280 Yeah, I mean, I guess the broad picture is pretty 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:25.560 much as you present it. I think that a great 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.920 purpose of America has been simply to hold ourselves together 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:36.200 as one nation, with all of our differences, with all 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:42.520 of our conflicting opinions, but to hold ourselves together, and 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:47.760 right now we're coming apart, and to hold ourselves together 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:53.400 means to me to restore that part of the country 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:58.840 which is a venue for bringing us together. Part of that, 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.920 I think is restore the role of Congress. Congress was 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.520 created as the place where all these different interests, all 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:14.080 these opposing points of view came together and worked things out. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.640 It was a place of compromise. Congress has now been diminished. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.240 And one of the things that's happened is, and this 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.760 is now an issue before the Supreme Court in that 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.479 tariff case, is the concentration of power, not just in 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.480 a few hands, which is what Madison was concerned about, 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.520 but in one person's hands, the presidency. The power to 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:42.000 tack the Congress has withered away, so it doesn't really 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.000 amount to much of anything now, much less not being 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.360 a place where different interests work things out. A lot 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.159 of people, a lot of people have said that the 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.720 basic role of now a member of Congress has performative 0:04:55.800 --> 0:05:00.440 that is, self promotion rather than legislating part of it. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.880 And then the second part of the sort of creating 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:09.440 the venue is restoring the political center of America. And 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:14.240 that's what doesn't exist anymore. Really, It's right now, each 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:18.920 of the two parties has gravitated toward its extremes. And 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.960 so now people go to the polls now and they're 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:29.680 faced with the choice, and the choices to two alternatives, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.479 neither of which they want. You know, one would be 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.880 the far left, one would be now the Republican Party, 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:41.000 the maga right. And so the idea is, Okay, where 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.719 do people come together? Well, most people are in the center, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.520 So let's restore that center. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.680 So this is the conundrum I have, which is, let me, 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.520 let me. Let's deal with one of the fun riddles 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.800 that I like to throw out there about American politics today. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.159 The two major political parties have never been weaker, and 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.560 yet are the pull of the two of the red 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.080 and the blue. Right has never been stronger. Right, The 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.320 parties as institutions are super weak. They have no money, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.960 no resources, no ability to vet I mean, look, I'm 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:17.960 old enough to remember when the chairman of the RNC 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.000 tried to shame Donald Trump for attacking John McCain that 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.680 eventual chairman of the rn C would become the chief 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.240 of staff at the first Trump presidency. I say this 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.599 with no disrespect to rights previous. I think he's a 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.640 man with a good heart, and I think I think 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.720 if given the opportunity, would try to do, would try 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:42.960 to do the right thing here. But is the problem 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.440 our political parties are too weak? Is the problem too 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.160 much money? And the reason I say I'm offering a 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.640 lot of choices here these answers to say, it's all 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.520 a problem, But what's solvable first? What do we need 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.880 to do first? I keep coming back to a third 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.000 party or an independent candidate temporarily because of the impact 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.279 I saw Ross Perrot have on both parties. It sobered 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.560 them both up right. It made the Democrats a little 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.040 more fiscally responsible, made the Republicans a little more sensitive 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:20.280 to working class folks on the issue of trade. So 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.880 it actually had a moderating effect on both parties. So 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.600 I think about the various reform efforts. Where do we begin? 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:29.840 Where would you begin? 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.480 Well, actually, I've tried both of both approaches. I am 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.720 a Republican and I've spent so much of my life 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:46.320 in Republican elected politics, that's my identity. But I did 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:52.080 in the last senatorial election in Missouri, I did support 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:57.440 an independent candidate, and he was the independent candidate really 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:02.160 was is a true ditional Republican, you know, I mean, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:03.239 you would just say Okay. 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.679 Wait, by the way, John Bailey and I work together. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:13.320 Oh yeah, okay, back in the day. Yeah he So 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.600 this guy was just right down the line, bright guy, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:25.200 attractive guy, very well educated, and he ended up with 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.600 less than one percent of the vote. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:27.720 Yeah. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.080 So, I mean the history and the third Party is 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:39.880 actually winning has been pretty bad. So maybe, I mean, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:46.520 maybe that's the one alternative. My approach has been within 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:51.199 the Republican Party because right now, of course, elections are 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:56.240 determined in primaries, and that means to energize the extreme base. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.000 But I think that there are just a ton of 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.880 people out there who are essentially conservative in their outlook, 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.400 traditional Republicans in their in their way of thinking and 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.800 approaching things, and that the idea is to appeal to them. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.119 So that's my focus has been on trying to restore 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:25.320 that traditional Republican party. Maybe maybe it's feudal. I don't know, 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:25.920 I just don't. 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.120 Well, let me ask you this about the party. I 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:34.000 always comfort myself by reminding people that the the isolationist wing, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.599 the sort of America First wing, whatever you want to 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.079 describe sort of in MEGA has a lot of resemblance 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.760 to it. Okay, it's not fully that, and in fact, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.120 I think we're about to see the I think the 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.600 coalition is cracking. I think we're and part of it 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.920 is just the passage of time. I mean, I think 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.240 you've you've been through a lot of these periods where 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.439 there's these cultive personalities that have a grip on the 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.920 nation of the country or a part. But the grip 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.880 basically is a decade, and it is tough to ever 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:10.960 hold on beyond it. Right, Reagan's grip basically didn't last 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.280 but half of Bush's term. Right, Clinton's grip didn't even 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.800 make it to a third term. Neither did Obama's. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:16.960 Right. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.040 It just and I think we're seeing that now. It's 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.640 just sort of exhaustion, We burn out. Do you think 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:29.680 if Trump is disappears, the the Reagan coalition comes back 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.320 and the America First sort of isolationist wing, arguably both 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.480 of Missouri senators or members of that wing, does that 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.040 fade or what do you foresee in the near term. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.040 You know, you got started in politics during the old 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:45.640 Taft Eisenhower disputes. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:51.880 Right, Well, I'm I'm not quite that old, No. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.440 But you were, but you were familiar with them. You 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:55.800 were familiar with them back then. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:04.880 Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, you know what here's here is 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.840 and maybe this maybe I'm just Pollyanna, you know, but 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:16.240 I think that it's not just that. Do people say, okay, 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.840 you know the cost of living and that's going to 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.240 turn people, And yeah, I think that's part of it. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:29.000 But I think mainly most people in our country are 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:36.280 not ugly. They're not nasty, they're not. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:38.040 Mean. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.240 And I think what's happened in politics now, and particularly 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:48.320 in the Maga world, in the Trump world, is it's ugly. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:56.560 I mean, it's just terribly mean and angry and aggrieve 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:05.800 and bitter. And look, I've been out of politics for 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.280 thirty one years now, but I don't believe human nature 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.880 has changed that much in thirty one years. And I 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.920 really knew the people of my state. I thought, really well, 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.400 I mean I for a long time. I spent so 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.280 much time with them, and you know what, they're good people. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.840 I mean, they're just good, decent people. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.080 And does it matter if you're in the rural parts 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.719 of Missouri seven or the inner city know, and. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.920 They're you know, and it was and they had they 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.200 they were funny, I mean, they had good senses of humor. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.520 They laughed. Where's the laughter now in politics? Where's the 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:54.040 joy and adult It's all so angry and so bitter 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.760 and so outrageous cruel I would say, there's a cruel 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.959 some of this immigration stuff, you know. I mean when 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:10.240 they're when they are sending ice agents out to break 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.800 up families. I thought our party was supposed to be 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:20.200 family values. Well, how about deporting the husband and what's 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.040 going to happen with a wife and children. I know 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.400 of a case like that right in my home state. 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.760 This man is he's going to be deported and he 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.000 won't be able to return for a minimum of twenty years. 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.679 And he's married, and he has two small daughters and 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.640 one of them is a special needs child. Are we 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.160 that kind of country? Are we that kind of country 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.559 that cheers that on, that says, oh, we got to 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.560 keep these immigrants out to the point of shoving them 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.120 out the door when they've got families. So there's a 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:02.520 cruelty in all of this. I think that if there's 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.559 a way, and I've been thinking about how to do 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.120 this as a matter of fact, if there's a way 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.240 to just ask the American people put the question to it, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:16.680 are we really like this Are we really this angry? 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.680 This mean? You know what? This week, there's going to 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.600 be a meeting in Washington. I read about it, and 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:28.840 it's a meeting about how Christians are being picked on, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:36.160 I mean crimea river. Christians are supposed to feel they're victims, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.120 They're being pushed around. The elites are out to get them, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:48.040 governments out to give them please. Are we really is it? 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:54.479 Is it sustainable to stoke up that kind of grievance, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:15:00.320 feeling of grievance and anger? Is that sustainable? Or is 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:05.760 there some equilibrium out there where most people really are 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.640 kind and decent and caring and want to live with 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:16.000 their neighbors, whether their neighbors are progressive or conservative, whatever 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.000 they are them. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.760 I was counting on that exhaustion, the exhaustion from the anger, 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.240 the exhaustion, and I think we all thought, let me 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.320 put it this way, I shouldn't do the we all. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.640 I thought the idea of Biden's presidency was supposed to 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.000 be this they I don't want to give me the 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.400 jolly guy, right, You're in the Joe Biden I covered 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.320 for most of the time, and I'm not going to 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.880 count the presidency because, frankly, it was a different Joe 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.280 Biden than the guy I covered his vice president and 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.200 the guy I covered as a senator. And I'm sure 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.160 you probably felt the same way. Yeah, But the one 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.440 thing about Joe Biden is that guy was always joyful. 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.160 That guy was always a better he was a better 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.920 angel guy. So I do think that's what the country 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.280 kind of hoped he was going to offer of a 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.000 of a moment. Frankly, I go back to my phrase 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.840 pastor for patriotism, that maybe he was going to serve 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.240 as a bit of a faith healer, you know. And 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.200 I'm not a very religious person. I know you are, 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.880 but I kind of need we need a We need 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.240 somebody to restore faith in the idea of America. And 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.600 I do think it has to end up coming from 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.360 our If our president can't do it, who can, right? 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:30.880 And we are we? 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:31.600 You know? 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.440 I think I think Obama had that ability in him. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.480 I think he made a few errors at the end 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.960 and sort of not reading, not understanding what was happening 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.520 inside his own party, and they led them down the 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:49.120 wrong road there. But so I take your point on this, 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.680 is this something I mean? Do you think I know 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.480 what I think? When you say those, I think, well, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.040 this is what social media has done. It has made 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.560 us all self centered, it is, it's made us all 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.640 more it is, we're all I always joke because I'm 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.520 obsessed to try to fix local news. So I'll always say, well, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.399 the one thing I've learned with this phone and I'm 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.600 holding it up, is we're all a little bit narcissistic, 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.080 and we all think whatever's happening right around us. We 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.280 had to talk about, Hey, that's local news. Maybe people 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.719 want more local news, right, let's let's get more micro. 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.360 But it does feel as if our politics changed when 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.440 the iPhone became the primary source of communication for political information. 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.360 Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. And there's been 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:40.000 a lot of commentary about that. It's a great book 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:44.359 called The Anxious Generation. I'm just that about the effect 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.399 that the iPhone is having, especially on on younger people, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.120 and I think that all that's true, And I don't know, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:58.119 I don't know that there's any antidote to that, but 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:04.440 I do think that there has to be a sustained 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:10.200 effort to focus public attention on the question of who 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.520 are we and are we really angry and mean and 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:21.840 cruel as people? Or are we not? And I think 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.919 that that that effort will call for a lot of us, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.000 and it will call for the media, We'll call for 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:30.440 anybody who's got. 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:32.879 Well, what do you do if the sitting president of 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.040 the United States does not agree with that assise? 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.239 Oh no, he doesn't know. He's the opposite. He is 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:47.040 the opposite. He's the That's what he is. And that's why. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.240 I mean, that's one of the reasons I think he's 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.120 caused more damage to our country than any other person 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.239 in our history. But so now what it was, and 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.959 I think it's got to be more than just top end. 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.880 I think it's got to be bottomed up. I think 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.640 it's got to be the American people being faced through 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.600 that question of who we are and is this really right? 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.119 And does Donald Trump and what he stands for really 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.359 represent us and what we stand for who we are? 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.760 And so how to sustain that well, I can think 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.800 of how to do it in bits and pieces. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.720 In This episode of The Chuck Podcast is brought to 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.760 you by Wildgrain. Wild Grain is the first bake from 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:36.960 Frozen subscription box for our teasonal breads, seasonal pastries, and 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.200 fresh pastas, plus all items conveniently bake in twenty five 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.600 minutes or less. 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Follow these instructions. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.720 Free croissants in every box thirty dollars off your first 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.760 box when you go to wildgrain dot com slash toodcast 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.320 that's wildgrain dot com slash podcast, or simply use the 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.600 promo code toodcast at check out. Always use the code 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:04.639 get the discount. I'm telling you it's excellent, excellent. Brett, Well, 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.679 let me give you a suggestion because, and I know 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.600 I'm curious how much conversations you've had. There are two 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.240 senators that always jump out to me as two senators 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.639 that I would like to lead, to see lead a 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.280 conversation like the one you've described. And they're the actual 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.320 They're the two senators who are also happened to be pastors, 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.400 James Langford out of Oklahoma and Raphael Warnock go to Georgia. Langford, 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.840 to me, is the closest thing to you that exists 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.919 in this current Senate. I say that not just because 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:41.720 of his past being an ordained pastor, but more his 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.760 in who he is, who is his temperatip. I think 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:47.520 I got to think you know Langford a little bit. 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.560 He is I think a top notch human being. I 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.119 think if it were politically safer, he would be speaking 0:21:55.119 --> 0:22:00.399 out more. But I go back and forth of whether 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.400 I how much grace I give certain senators. I'll give 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.359 him more grace than others because I feel like I 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.000 know who he is. Should what role could those two play? 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.800 I feel like if they chose to play a role here, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.800 they could play a powerful role. But Langford would have 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.399 to criticize his own party, and I don't know if 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:21.199 he's ready to do that. 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:25.000 Well, I don't, yeah, But I don't think you need 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.639 to start out criticizing your own party. I think you 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:31.400 end up. You start out as we have with our 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:38.320 organization called our Republican Legacy, putting forth certain points of 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:43.360 view or principles that are positive, that stand on their 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.800 own and if you put, if you put to the 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.040 American but who are we? How do you want to 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.720 treat your neighbors? You know? Do you? How do you 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:58.800 want to do that? I think there would be a response. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.040 I don't think it's necessary. It would be wonderful it 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.960 would come for the present and wonderful of more political leaders. 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:09.359 Anybody with the soapbox, though, can do it. I think 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:15.720 that there's a real role for religious congregations to do 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.880 this bringing people together who are different, who have different opinions, 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:26.600 breaking bread together, you know, invite a Republican to lunch? 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.199 How about that? Right? I mean any other way around? Right? 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:36.840 No anything, And they're you know, so, I mean there 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.760 could be a real effort. It could be led by 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:45.720 religious congregations, and it should be because the root of 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.639 the word religion is the same as for ligament, holding 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:53.600 things together. So how do we do that? Are there 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:58.400 tactics for doing it? Invite a Republican to lunch? How 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:02.080 about if somebody that you know who has got the 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:07.120 opposite political view has hit something awful, happened by way 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.360 of health or family laws, call them up. Call that 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.320 person up and say I care about you. And Saint 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:19.440 Paul said, rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:24.240 who weep. And I think that that is what it takes. 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:28.480 I think it's I think essentially it's a question of 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.359 what we're really right and we're not like this. I 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:41.399 know that, I absolutely know that we as a people 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.960 are not like Donald Trump. I know that. 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.000 So obviously you hope this is repairable from the inside out, 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.119 But when you look at the grip he has on 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.960 the party, like I said, I think it's a coalition 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.600 that's in the midst of fract because it doesn't have 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:07.480 an ideological glue. Right, He's supposedly for non interventions, and 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.160 yet we're about to go on an escapade in Venezuela 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:14.920 where he's getting involved in the Honduran presidential election. He's 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.199 inserted it. You know, it's as whatever you think of 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:21.639 Marjorie Taylor Green, I think I take her at her 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:23.960 word that she looks at this and said, hey, I 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:27.320 actually voted for ideology here. And I think Trump's got 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:30.040 a problem. I think there's some true believers in his 0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.680 movement that are like, wait a minute, we didn't vote 0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:37.440 for this. We didn't vote for Ukraine, or Israel or Venezuela. 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:41.800 And we know that Trump's a transactionalist. He jumped in 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:43.520 front of that parade because he saw it as the 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.960 fastest way to get the nomination. And now he's like, oh, well, 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:50.360 I can get paid helping out the Hondurans here, and 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:52.639 you know, I'll dabble in this over there, and the 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:56.640 Middle East Royalty loves me and so and it's actually 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:58.800