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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: personal experience. I was sixteen when my father passed away.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in

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Speaker 1: the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself

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Speaker 1: sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to

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Speaker 1: pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had

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Speaker 1: one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot,

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Speaker 1: but it was important at the time, and it's why

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Speaker 1: I was able to go to college. Little did he

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Speaker 1: know how important that would be in that moment. Well,

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Speaker 1: guess what. That's why I am here to tell you

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Speaker 1: March twenty twenty five, Business Insider named Ethos the number

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Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about, especially if

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Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. So joining me now is

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Speaker 1: who's frankly has got the passion that I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: bring to this podcast, and you know which is to

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Speaker 1: focus on how do we get out of this current

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Speaker 1: mess we're in. We all know we're in a mess.

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Speaker 1: We have disagreements about why we're polarized. We have disagreements

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Speaker 1: about whether the current situation is sort of a symptom

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Speaker 1: of something larger or whether the current actors are the

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Speaker 1: problems themselves. I've obviously been focused on the media side

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Speaker 1: of things. My guest today is a very familiar name

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Speaker 1: to those of you that are political junkies. Jack dan Forth,

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Speaker 1: former Republican senator from Missouri, an episcopal priest. And I

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Speaker 1: bring that up because, as you know, as many of

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Speaker 1: my listeners know, Senator, I've been yearning for what I

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Speaker 1: call for a pastor for patriotism. I feel like America

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Speaker 1: needs somebody to help us. They're just sort of renew

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Speaker 1: civics and renew sort of what we understood America to be.

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Speaker 1: That it was an idea, it's not an ethnicity, there's

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Speaker 1: not a religious thing. And boy, there's nobody that could

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Speaker 1: speak better to this moment. I wish you were thirty

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Speaker 1: years younger right now, and let's run you for breadth

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Speaker 1: it right, trust me, we all want to be twenty.

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Speaker 2: Three other reasons. Yeah, yes, so.

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Speaker 1: But your your focus is trying to rehabilitate the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: Walk me through what your focus is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess the broad picture is pretty

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Speaker 2: much as you present it. I think that a great

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Speaker 2: purpose of America has been simply to hold ourselves together

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Speaker 2: as one nation, with all of our differences, with all

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Speaker 2: of our conflicting opinions, but to hold ourselves together, and

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Speaker 2: right now we're coming apart, and to hold ourselves together

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Speaker 2: means to me to restore that part of the country

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Speaker 2: which is a venue for bringing us together. Part of that,

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Speaker 2: I think is restore the role of Congress. Congress was

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Speaker 2: created as the place where all these different interests, all

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Speaker 2: these opposing points of view came together and worked things out.

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Speaker 2: It was a place of compromise. Congress has now been diminished.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that's happened is, and this

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Speaker 2: is now an issue before the Supreme Court in that

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Speaker 2: tariff case, is the concentration of power, not just in

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Speaker 2: a few hands, which is what Madison was concerned about,

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Speaker 2: but in one person's hands, the presidency. The power to

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Speaker 2: tack the Congress has withered away, so it doesn't really

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Speaker 2: amount to much of anything now, much less not being

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Speaker 2: a place where different interests work things out. A lot

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Speaker 2: of people, a lot of people have said that the

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Speaker 2: basic role of now a member of Congress has performative

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Speaker 2: that is, self promotion rather than legislating part of it.

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Speaker 2: And then the second part of the sort of creating

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Speaker 2: the venue is restoring the political center of America. And

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Speaker 2: that's what doesn't exist anymore. Really, It's right now, each

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Speaker 2: of the two parties has gravitated toward its extremes. And

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Speaker 2: so now people go to the polls now and they're

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Speaker 2: faced with the choice, and the choices to two alternatives,

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Speaker 2: neither of which they want. You know, one would be

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Speaker 2: the far left, one would be now the Republican Party,

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Speaker 2: the maga right. And so the idea is, Okay, where

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Speaker 2: do people come together? Well, most people are in the center,

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Speaker 2: So let's restore that center.

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Speaker 1: So this is the conundrum I have, which is, let me,

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Speaker 1: let me. Let's deal with one of the fun riddles

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Speaker 1: that I like to throw out there about American politics today.

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Speaker 1: The two major political parties have never been weaker, and

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Speaker 1: yet are the pull of the two of the red

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Speaker 1: and the blue. Right has never been stronger. Right, The

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Speaker 1: parties as institutions are super weak. They have no money,

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Speaker 1: no resources, no ability to vet I mean, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: old enough to remember when the chairman of the RNC

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Speaker 1: tried to shame Donald Trump for attacking John McCain that

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Speaker 1: eventual chairman of the rn C would become the chief

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Speaker 1: of staff at the first Trump presidency. I say this

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Speaker 1: with no disrespect to rights previous. I think he's a

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Speaker 1: man with a good heart, and I think I think

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Speaker 1: if given the opportunity, would try to do, would try

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing here. But is the problem

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Speaker 1: our political parties are too weak? Is the problem too

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Speaker 1: much money? And the reason I say I'm offering a

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Speaker 1: lot of choices here these answers to say, it's all

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Speaker 1: a problem, But what's solvable first? What do we need

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Speaker 1: to do first? I keep coming back to a third

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Speaker 1: party or an independent candidate temporarily because of the impact

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Speaker 1: I saw Ross Perrot have on both parties. It sobered

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Speaker 1: them both up right. It made the Democrats a little

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Speaker 1: more fiscally responsible, made the Republicans a little more sensitive

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Speaker 1: to working class folks on the issue of trade. So

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Speaker 1: it actually had a moderating effect on both parties. So

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Speaker 1: I think about the various reform efforts. Where do we begin?

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Speaker 1: Where would you begin?

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, I've tried both of both approaches. I am

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Speaker 2: a Republican and I've spent so much of my life

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Speaker 2: in Republican elected politics, that's my identity. But I did

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Speaker 2: in the last senatorial election in Missouri, I did support

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Speaker 2: an independent candidate, and he was the independent candidate really

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Speaker 2: was is a true ditional Republican, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you would just say Okay.

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Speaker 1: Wait, by the way, John Bailey and I work together.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, back in the day. Yeah he So

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Speaker 2: this guy was just right down the line, bright guy,

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Speaker 2: attractive guy, very well educated, and he ended up with

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Speaker 2: less than one percent of the vote.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean the history and the third Party is

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Speaker 2: actually winning has been pretty bad. So maybe, I mean,

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Speaker 2: maybe that's the one alternative. My approach has been within

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Speaker 2: the Republican Party because right now, of course, elections are

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Speaker 2: determined in primaries, and that means to energize the extreme base.

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Speaker 2: But I think that there are just a ton of

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Speaker 2: people out there who are essentially conservative in their outlook,

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Speaker 2: traditional Republicans in their in their way of thinking and

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Speaker 2: approaching things, and that the idea is to appeal to them.

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Speaker 2: So that's my focus has been on trying to restore

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Speaker 2: that traditional Republican party. Maybe maybe it's feudal. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I just don't.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this about the party. I

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Speaker 1: always comfort myself by reminding people that the the isolationist wing,

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Speaker 1: the sort of America First wing, whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: describe sort of in MEGA has a lot of resemblance

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Speaker 1: to it. Okay, it's not fully that, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: I think we're about to see the I think the

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Speaker 1: coalition is cracking. I think we're and part of it

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Speaker 1: is just the passage of time. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: you've you've been through a lot of these periods where

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Speaker 1: there's these cultive personalities that have a grip on the

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Speaker 1: nation of the country or a part. But the grip

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Speaker 1: basically is a decade, and it is tough to ever

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Speaker 1: hold on beyond it. Right, Reagan's grip basically didn't last

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Speaker 1: but half of Bush's term. Right, Clinton's grip didn't even

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Speaker 1: make it to a third term. Neither did Obama's.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: It just and I think we're seeing that now. It's

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Speaker 1: just sort of exhaustion, We burn out. Do you think

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Speaker 1: if Trump is disappears, the the Reagan coalition comes back

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Speaker 1: and the America First sort of isolationist wing, arguably both

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Speaker 1: of Missouri senators or members of that wing, does that

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Speaker 1: fade or what do you foresee in the near term.

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Speaker 1: You know, you got started in politics during the old

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Speaker 1: Taft Eisenhower disputes.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, I'm I'm not quite that old, No.

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Speaker 1: But you were, but you were familiar with them. You

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Speaker 1: were familiar with them back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, you know what here's here is

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Speaker 2: and maybe this maybe I'm just Pollyanna, you know, but

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Speaker 2: I think that it's not just that. Do people say, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know the cost of living and that's going to

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Speaker 2: turn people, And yeah, I think that's part of it.

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Speaker 2: But I think mainly most people in our country are

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Speaker 2: not ugly. They're not nasty, they're not.

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Speaker 1: Mean.

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Speaker 2: And I think what's happened in politics now, and particularly

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Speaker 2: in the Maga world, in the Trump world, is it's ugly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just terribly mean and angry and aggrieve

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Speaker 2: and bitter. And look, I've been out of politics for

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Speaker 2: thirty one years now, but I don't believe human nature

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Speaker 2: has changed that much in thirty one years. And I

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Speaker 2: really knew the people of my state. I thought, really well,

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Speaker 2: I mean I for a long time. I spent so

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Speaker 2: much time with them, and you know what, they're good people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're just good, decent people.

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Speaker 1: And does it matter if you're in the rural parts

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Speaker 1: of Missouri seven or the inner city know, and.

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Speaker 2: They're you know, and it was and they had they

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Speaker 2: they were funny, I mean, they had good senses of humor.

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Speaker 2: They laughed. Where's the laughter now in politics? Where's the

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Speaker 2: joy and adult It's all so angry and so bitter

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Speaker 2: and so outrageous cruel I would say, there's a cruel

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Speaker 2: some of this immigration stuff, you know. I mean when

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Speaker 2: they're when they are sending ice agents out to break

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Speaker 2: up families. I thought our party was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: family values. Well, how about deporting the husband and what's

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Speaker 2: going to happen with a wife and children. I know

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Speaker 2: of a case like that right in my home state.

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Speaker 2: This man is he's going to be deported and he

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Speaker 2: won't be able to return for a minimum of twenty years.

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Speaker 2: And he's married, and he has two small daughters and

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Speaker 2: one of them is a special needs child. Are we

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Speaker 2: that kind of country? Are we that kind of country

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Speaker 2: that cheers that on, that says, oh, we got to

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Speaker 2: keep these immigrants out to the point of shoving them

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Speaker 2: out the door when they've got families. So there's a

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Speaker 2: cruelty in all of this. I think that if there's

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Speaker 2: a way, and I've been thinking about how to do

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Speaker 2: this as a matter of fact, if there's a way

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Speaker 2: to just ask the American people put the question to it,

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Speaker 2: are we really like this Are we really this angry?

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Speaker 2: This mean? You know what? This week, there's going to

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Speaker 2: be a meeting in Washington. I read about it, and

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Speaker 2: it's a meeting about how Christians are being picked on,

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Speaker 2: I mean crimea river. Christians are supposed to feel they're victims,

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Speaker 2: They're being pushed around. The elites are out to get them,

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Speaker 2: governments out to give them please. Are we really is it?

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Speaker 2: Is it sustainable to stoke up that kind of grievance,

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Speaker 2: feeling of grievance and anger? Is that sustainable? Or is

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Speaker 2: there some equilibrium out there where most people really are

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Speaker 2: kind and decent and caring and want to live with

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Speaker 2: their neighbors, whether their neighbors are progressive or conservative, whatever

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Speaker 2: they are them.

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Speaker 1: I was counting on that exhaustion, the exhaustion from the anger,

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Speaker 1: the exhaustion, and I think we all thought, let me

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Speaker 1: put it this way, I shouldn't do the we all.

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Speaker 1: I thought the idea of Biden's presidency was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be this they I don't want to give me the

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Speaker 1: jolly guy, right, You're in the Joe Biden I covered

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Speaker 1: for most of the time, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: count the presidency because, frankly, it was a different Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden than the guy I covered his vice president and

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Speaker 1: the guy I covered as a senator. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you probably felt the same way. Yeah, But the one

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Speaker 1: thing about Joe Biden is that guy was always joyful.

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Speaker 1: That guy was always a better he was a better

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Speaker 1: angel guy. So I do think that's what the country

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Speaker 1: kind of hoped he was going to offer of a

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Speaker 1: of a moment. Frankly, I go back to my phrase

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Speaker 1: pastor for patriotism, that maybe he was going to serve

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Speaker 1: as a bit of a faith healer, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not a very religious person. I know you are,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of need we need a We need

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Speaker 1: somebody to restore faith in the idea of America. And

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Speaker 1: I do think it has to end up coming from

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Speaker 1: our If our president can't do it, who can, right?

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Speaker 1: And we are we?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: I think I think Obama had that ability in him.

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Speaker 1: I think he made a few errors at the end

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Speaker 1: and sort of not reading, not understanding what was happening

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Speaker 1: inside his own party, and they led them down the

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Speaker 1: wrong road there. But so I take your point on this,

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Speaker 1: is this something I mean? Do you think I know

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Speaker 1: what I think? When you say those, I think, well,

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Speaker 1: this is what social media has done. It has made

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Speaker 1: us all self centered, it is, it's made us all

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Speaker 1: more it is, we're all I always joke because I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed to try to fix local news. So I'll always say, well,

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Speaker 1: the one thing I've learned with this phone and I'm

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Speaker 1: holding it up, is we're all a little bit narcissistic,

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Speaker 1: and we all think whatever's happening right around us. We

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Speaker 1: had to talk about, Hey, that's local news. Maybe people

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Speaker 1: want more local news, right, let's let's get more micro.

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Speaker 1: But it does feel as if our politics changed when

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Speaker 1: the iPhone became the primary source of communication for political information.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. And there's been

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Speaker 2: a lot of commentary about that. It's a great book

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Speaker 2: called The Anxious Generation. I'm just that about the effect

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Speaker 2: that the iPhone is having, especially on on younger people,

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Speaker 2: and I think that all that's true, And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that there's any antidote to that, but

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Speaker 2: I do think that there has to be a sustained

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Speaker 2: effort to focus public attention on the question of who

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Speaker 2: are we and are we really angry and mean and

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Speaker 2: cruel as people? Or are we not? And I think

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Speaker 2: that that that effort will call for a lot of us,

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Speaker 2: and it will call for the media, We'll call for

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Speaker 2: anybody who's got.

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Speaker 1: Well, what do you do if the sitting president of

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Speaker 1: the United States does not agree with that assise?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, he doesn't know. He's the opposite. He is

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Speaker 2: the opposite. He's the That's what he is. And that's why.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the reasons I think he's

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Speaker 2: caused more damage to our country than any other person

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Speaker 2: in our history. But so now what it was, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's got to be more than just top end.

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Speaker 2: I think it's got to be bottomed up. I think

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Speaker 2: it's got to be the American people being faced through

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Speaker 2: that question of who we are and is this really right?

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Speaker 2: And does Donald Trump and what he stands for really

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Speaker 2: represent us and what we stand for who we are?

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Speaker 2: And so how to sustain that well, I can think

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Speaker 2: of how to do it in bits and pieces.

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Speaker 1: let me give you a suggestion because, and I know

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Speaker 1: I'm curious how much conversations you've had. There are two

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Speaker 1: senators that always jump out to me as two senators

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Speaker 1: that I would like to lead, to see lead a

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Speaker 1: conversation like the one you've described. And they're the actual

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Speaker 1: They're the two senators who are also happened to be pastors,

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Speaker 1: James Langford out of Oklahoma and Raphael Warnock go to Georgia. Langford,

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Speaker 1: to me, is the closest thing to you that exists

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Speaker 1: in this current Senate. I say that not just because

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Speaker 1: of his past being an ordained pastor, but more his

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Speaker 1: in who he is, who is his temperatip. I think

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Speaker 1: I got to think you know Langford a little bit.

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Speaker 1: He is I think a top notch human being. I

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Speaker 1: think if it were politically safer, he would be speaking

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Speaker 1: out more. But I go back and forth of whether

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Speaker 1: I how much grace I give certain senators. I'll give

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Speaker 1: him more grace than others because I feel like I

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Speaker 1: know who he is. Should what role could those two play?

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Speaker 1: I feel like if they chose to play a role here,

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Speaker 1: they could play a powerful role. But Langford would have

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Speaker 1: to criticize his own party, and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he's ready to do that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't, yeah, But I don't think you need

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Speaker 2: to start out criticizing your own party. I think you

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Speaker 2: end up. You start out as we have with our

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Speaker 2: organization called our Republican Legacy, putting forth certain points of

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Speaker 2: view or principles that are positive, that stand on their

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Speaker 2: own and if you put, if you put to the

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Speaker 2: American but who are we? How do you want to

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Speaker 2: treat your neighbors? You know? Do you? How do you

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Speaker 2: want to do that? I think there would be a response.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessary. It would be wonderful it

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Speaker 2: would come for the present and wonderful of more political leaders.

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Speaker 2: Anybody with the soapbox, though, can do it. I think

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Speaker 2: that there's a real role for religious congregations to do

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Speaker 2: this bringing people together who are different, who have different opinions,

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Speaker 2: breaking bread together, you know, invite a Republican to lunch?

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Speaker 2: How about that? Right? I mean any other way around? Right?

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Speaker 2: No anything, And they're you know, so, I mean there

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Speaker 2: could be a real effort. It could be led by

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Speaker 2: religious congregations, and it should be because the root of

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Speaker 2: the word religion is the same as for ligament, holding

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Speaker 2: things together. So how do we do that? Are there

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Speaker 2: tactics for doing it? Invite a Republican to lunch? How

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Speaker 2: about if somebody that you know who has got the

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Speaker 2: opposite political view has hit something awful, happened by way

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Speaker 2: of health or family laws, call them up. Call that

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Speaker 2: person up and say I care about you. And Saint

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Speaker 2: Paul said, rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those

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Speaker 2: who weep. And I think that that is what it takes.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think essentially it's a question of

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Speaker 2: what we're really right and we're not like this. I

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Speaker 2: know that, I absolutely know that we as a people

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Speaker 2: are not like Donald Trump. I know that.

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Speaker 1: So obviously you hope this is repairable from the inside out,

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Speaker 1: But when you look at the grip he has on

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Speaker 1: the party, like I said, I think it's a coalition

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Speaker 1: that's in the midst of fract because it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: an ideological glue. Right, He's supposedly for non interventions, and

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Speaker 1: yet we're about to go on an escapade in Venezuela

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Speaker 1: where he's getting involved in the Honduran presidential election. He's

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Speaker 1: inserted it. You know, it's as whatever you think of

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green, I think I take her at her

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Speaker 1: word that she looks at this and said, hey, I

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Speaker 1: actually voted for ideology here. And I think Trump's got

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Speaker 1: a problem. I think there's some true believers in his

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Speaker 1: movement that are like, wait a minute, we didn't vote

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Speaker 1: for this. We didn't vote for Ukraine, or Israel or Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: And we know that Trump's a transactionalist. He jumped in

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Speaker 1: front of that parade because he saw it as the

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Speaker 1: fastest way to get the nomination. And now he's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I can get paid helping out the Hondurans here, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll dabble in this over there, and the

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Speaker 1: Middle East Royalty loves me and so and it's actually

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Speaker 1: counter to what he promised his constituents.

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Speaker 2: But it hasn't broken our position, our position in our

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Speaker 2: Republican legacy, which is our effort to keep the ember

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Speaker 2: of traditional conservatism burning. Our position is that none of

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Speaker 2: this is conservative. None of it. It's not. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we used to think of ourselves we're the conservative party. Okay,

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Speaker 2: let's say, let's ask the Republicans that question, do you

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Speaker 2: view yourself as conservative or not? But please don't let

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Speaker 2: the conservative label be appropriated by the MAGA people, because

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Speaker 2: they are not. Jack.

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Speaker 1: I think the words lost its meaning to most. If

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Speaker 1: you ask my son, who's eight in college studying, he

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Speaker 1: thinks whatever Trump supporter is a conservative And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's it's an ideological label that doesn't fit what the

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Speaker 1: definition used to be. And I was trying to walk

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Speaker 1: them through this, and you know, right now, it's just

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Speaker 1: a label that's a fixed on anything Trump.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's true, But I mean we've got

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Speaker 2: to reclaim it. And that's what our group of ours,

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Speaker 2: our Republican legacy, is attempting to do. I mean pointing

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Speaker 2: out there's nothing conservative about blowing out up the National

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Speaker 2: death that's not conservative. There's nothing conservative about deep Washington

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Speaker 2: involvement in the economy, which was high protective caress Ronald

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Speaker 2: Reagan rolling over in his grave?

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Speaker 1: Can you believe how many pieces of companies the US

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Speaker 1: government now has.

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Speaker 2: An owning company? That is what's conservative about government owning companies?

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Speaker 2: What's conservative about government? The Washington and the President trying

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Speaker 2: to tell universities what they should teach, or law firms

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Speaker 2: about whom they should represent, or late night comedians about

431
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: who they should not. What's conservative about that? That's not conservative?

432
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: What's conservative about cottoning up to Vladimir Putin? How does

433
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: that square with the Republican Party of Dwight Eisenhower and

434
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan? It does not. So it's not that this

435
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: is just a different part of conservatism. It's it's the

436
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: opposite of what our party was, has been, and what

437
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: I think if faced with it. But that's why I

438
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: think it's important to field candidates and hopefully in the

439
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: presidential election. Also maybe the person would lose, so he loses,

440
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: she loses, whatever, but at least present it to Republican voters.

441
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: How do you feel about huge deficits that are growing?

442
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: You feel about the Trump administration in its first term

443
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: that increased the national debt in four years by more

444
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: than almost forty percent, and that's going to increase it

445
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: by another three trillion over the next decade. How do

446
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: you feel about that? Do you think government should own businesses?

447
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: Do you favor high protective tariffs? Do you feel favor

448
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: pulling the plug on Ukraine? Put those questions to Republican voters.

449
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: Do you talk about fracturing of the Republican Party. I

450
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: don't think it would be fracturing over little stuff. I mean,

451
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: this is fundamental stuff that is defined the Republican Party

452
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: historically as the conservative party, which it isn't anymore.

453
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: Look, one of Missouri's US Senators, Josh Holly, I think

454
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 1: is smarter about understanding that the voter, the voter that

455
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: elects Republicans now, doesn't necessarily agree with that definition of

456
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: doesn't rejected that version of the Republican Party and prefers

457
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: one that is I always say, this is not a

458
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: small government Republican party. This is a strong government.

459
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: Republican You bet. It's really remarkable as a matter of

460
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: fact that I remember when I was a kid, somebody

461
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: said this to me. There they're really it is like

462
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: a convergence in a circle of the extreme right of

463
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: the extreme life right.

464
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: Eventually they touched.

465
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's that, that's right. But here's the thing.

466
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: I mean, we're trying to do this in our group,

467
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: our Republican legacy, we're trying to do this. We're trying

468
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: to to plant the flag for a principle. But not

469
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: enough people are doing it. Not enough people are really

470
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: putting the issue. So that's what I think we should

471
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: do it. Maybe maybe Hally's right. We are the party

472
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: of big government and writing two thousand dollars checks to

473
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: people and all of that. Maybe we've become a maybe

474
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: that's the way to be popular. A lot of people

475
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: historically in politics think this is the way to become popular,

476
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: way to win elections is to give it away.

477
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: Checking in every pot.

478
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: Right, remember that that's right. That comfrequent Hubert Humphrey used

479
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: to call it the politics of joy, just give it away.

480
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: Government intervenes and everything government should be big. Government isn't

481
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: big enough now. Government doesn't spend enough now, It isn't

482
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: powerful enough now, and it doesn't abuse your enemies the

483
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: way it should and it should do more of that.

484
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: So that yeah, So that's that, that has been I

485
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: guess the formula that they're relying on. But what if

486
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: you put the opposite to people. I mean, what if

487
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: somebody were to run for president, not caring whether this

488
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: person necessarily had to win for his or her ego,

489
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: but just put the question to people, who are we

490
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: as a people and what are we as a party?

491
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: What do we stand for? Do we stand for anything anymore? Anything?

492
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: So should we have more? I mean, do you think

493
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: you know this is?

494
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: This is?

495
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: Well, let me start with this. I'm obsessed with having

496
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: a constitutional convention. I think we need one, and I

497
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: think if you look at every period, every period in

498
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: our history where we've been at the brink, okay, where

499
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: we we hit a low Civil War being the lowest

500
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: we've we've actually that's always the moment we've actually amended

501
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: our Constitution. We created more equal protect Essentially, the equal

502
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: protection clause comes in after the Civil War.

503
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: We have mead the Constitution. We didn't have any convention

504
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: to do it.

505
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 1: No, that's true, but I don't trust this Congress actually

506
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: allow that to happen. But let's say, but either way,

507
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: we can do it in any which way. After the

508
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: debacle of the early twentieth century, when arguably the worst

509
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: scandal we ever had, teapot Dome. Well, we get the

510
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: direct election of senators, and then we get the amendment

511
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: to allow the income tax, which actually creates the property

512
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: tax structure that funds local governments to this day. And

513
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: of course we gave women the right to vote. So

514
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: I just think that we will have an opportunity in

515
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: the next ten to fifteen years to do some reforms,

516
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: because I do think there's enough shell shocked Americans like

517
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: WHOA the last ten years, right, whether it's amending the

518
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: constitution to take away the power of the part to

519
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: an individual. I mean, this is the abuse of the

520
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: pardon processes is clearly I think turned out to be

521
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: a problem. Maybe we do term limits, maybe we do this.

522
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: What do you do? You think we need a moment

523
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: here where? And if the reason, I like a constitutional

524
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: convention because I want to bring liberals and conservatives. Let's

525
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: talk about the balanced budget amendment, Let's talk about term limits,

526
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: let's talk about the pardon power, let's talk about age limits. Right,

527
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: all of that would have to be constitutional amendments, but

528
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: the process itself could be restorative for civics.

529
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: Terrible idea.

530
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: Oh, you don't want it. You think it's okay, tell

531
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: me why?

532
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: No?

533
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: No, okay?

534
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: Because I think that our constitution is a work of genius.

535
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: I do too, and I think that our guiding principle

536
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: is a principle of genius. And the principle is it's

537
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: the famous what five words and the declaration of independence.

538
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 2: All men are created equal. Did we depart from that

539
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: right from the beginning. Yeah, But is that our basic standard? Yes?

540
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: And we believed that we are capable, we the people,

541
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: are capable of governing ourselves. We don't have to be

542
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: governed by the powers that be. We take responsibility for

543
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: governing ourselves. And that was Jefferson's principle, and that was

544
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 2: what the Constitution was designed to do. No more big

545
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: deal king, no more big deal aristocracy, no more big

546
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: concentrated power in one person's hands or a few people.

547
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: We do this. That is our republican form of government.

548
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: That is what we are responsible for. And I think

549
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: we just have to insist on that. And that's it's

550
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: not a new principle, it's our principle.

551
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: It's the I don't think we disagree here. I think

552
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: we may disagree in the vehicle to amend the Constitution.

553
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: But I do think we need to freshen it up.

554
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: We need to add some amendments, do you.

555
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: Know, Well maybe yeah, amendments, But that's not counc usual convention.

556
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: What I mean the first Constitution.

557
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in rewriting. I see what you're saying.

558
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in rewriting it. That's what you're Okay,

559
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: the first Constitutional Convention was presided over by George Washington.

560
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: What if then another countutional convention was provided side by

561
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: Donald Trump?

562
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: Well, I don't.

563
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: I've heard that. I get that. I don't want to

564
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: fear the voter. Sometimes I do think we make certain

565
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: decisions like we fear, we fear the voter.

566
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: Right.

567
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: The electoral College arguably was a creation because ultimately they

568
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: feared the voters and they were like, we better have

569
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: one more check on the voters. And you know, look

570
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: at jerrymandering. Right, I would argue they fear the voter

571
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: and we need to we need to get rid of

572
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: that principle of fearing the voter and instead realizing, no,

573
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: the voter is in charge.

574
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: Okay, should please do it by months?

575
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: And now, well I what I So that's what I

576
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: I But what I could see us having is gathering

577
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: for to debate these amendments, and I think that we

578
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: should have a form for it. And I think it's

579
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: pretty clear we've got some problems, whether it's money in politics.

580
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: The courts are going to rule one way. So if

581
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: you want to have any limitation, you're going to have

582
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: to create a constitutional amendment jerry mandering, you know. I

583
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: think I happen to think the House is too small.

584
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: I actually think we don't have enough representatives in Washington

585
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: given the size of our population. I know, more politicians

586
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a reform to many people. But that's

587
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: if you if I, if I go back, I look

588
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: at it as founder's intent and the House of Representatives

589
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: is no longer the people's house, and that's a problem.

590
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: And how do you bring that mindset back to it? Yeah,

591
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, I think the point is is that it

592
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: does feel as if we need, you know, like any house,

593
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: it needs updating, and the American House needs some updating.

594
00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, no, I understand what you're saying, and

595
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: I think they're you know, discrete areas which would be

596
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: worth addressing. I mean, my own view is in the

597
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: same of the money in politics. I don't think that

598
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: money is the same as speech, which is basically with

599
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court decided. I think that there's a right

600
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: to speak, of course, into assembly. There's not a right

601
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: to bring a bull horned into a political meeting. And

602
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: that's essentially what we have now. So now I understand

603
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: that I haven't thought about a constitutional amendment on the

604
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: germandering or increasing the sides of the House. I just

605
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: don't have any.

606
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 1: And I get that those are my hobby horses.

607
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, maybe they're good ideas, maybe they're not,

608
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: but I don't I'm not for scrapping what we have.

609
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm for restoring what we have. I think that the

610
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: Supreme Court's decision in this tariff case is really going

611
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: to be important.

612
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: How badly. Let me say, let's say this, what if

613
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: they uphold the president's authority? What does that do to

614
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: the checks and balances.

615
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: Of our It removes them, Yeah, it really removes them.

616
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: But it basically says that the president has absolute power

617
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: to do anything. He can do anything he wants if

618
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: he wants. He could paint the White House orange, and

619
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: by the way, he might decide to do that, you know, Yeah,

620
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: it's I mean, if Congress doesn't retain the power to

621
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: tax right, which is you know, an express power an

622
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: article one of the Constitutions, the power to attacks that

623
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: that can be given away.

624
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

625
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

626
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

627
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

628
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

629
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

630
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

631
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

632
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

633
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

634
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

635
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

636
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

637
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer, you need somebody

638
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for the people dot

639
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: Com slash podcast or Dow Pound law Pound five two

640
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: nine law on your cell phone. And remember all law

641
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: firms are not the same. So check out Morgan and Morgan.

642
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. Why do you

643
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: think it's been so hard to get Congress to flexits?

644
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had a theory that Congress doesn't want

645
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: the responsibility that the laws that they pass that could

646
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: come with it, so they intentionally allow the ambiguity in

647
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: the laws they pass, especially if they think the first

648
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: administration that will execute those laws is one that they

649
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: agree with. And that's how the ambiguity gets into the

650
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: lawmaking process in the first place, and then puts us

651
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: where essentially an administrative state interprets the law, and then

652
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: we end up in the courts, and then we have

653
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: this sort of over time it is essentially accumulated to

654
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: the executive's advantage.

655
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think even back in ancient history,

656
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: namely when I was around, the way to bridge what

657
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: seemed to be a reconcilable differences in the writing of

658
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: legislation is to bridge it with fuzz. So ambiguity is

659
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 2: sort of the default in how to finally pass legislation.

660
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: So I think there's that, but I think now it's

661
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: more than that. I think that Congress, now it really

662
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: would be an interesting question to put two members in Congress.

663
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Well? What is it? Please? What

664
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: is your job?

665
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: Tell me?

666
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: Tell me what you've done other than say get on

667
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: Fox News or put something on social media? What what?

668
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: What have you done other than take many many vacations?

669
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: I mean the vacation done. I mean now Thanksgiving, Christmas

670
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,959
Speaker 2: is coming, then we've got the first of the year,

671
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: and then we've got whatever comes after that. But I

672
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: mean they just they go on vacation all the time. Well,

673
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: I was joking.

674
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: A three day weekend, a three day weekend for the

675
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: rest of us is always a two week.

676
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: Recess, unbelievable. And the work so called work week is

677
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: three days. Yeah, And it's what are they they're drawing

678
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 2: paychecks for what? I mean what they're not legislating because

679
00:44:51,800 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: legislating is controversial, So to avoid controversy, and legislating is

680
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: producing something other than what Donald Trump wants you to produce,

681
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: So don't do it.

682
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: Well, take take health Care's where's the legislators trying to

683
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: come up with a plan to deal with the expiring

684
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: healthcare subsidies. Where's there a health and if your publican

685
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: party is an alternative plan, show me the process.

686
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: What are you doing about the pending and solvency of

687
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: the Social Security Trust Fund? When it comes, which is

688
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: scheduled to become in eight years, social security benefits will

689
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: drop by sixty six hundred dollars.

690
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: And Senator, I'm a well aware being a member of

691
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: Gen X and not a baby boomer, that I'm going

692
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: to be the first generation Okay, because that eight years

693
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: it's about I'm getting close to when I'm going to

694
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: be eligible and my generation is going to be the

695
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: one that gets the first haircut and we didn't make

696
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: the mess.

697
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the nice thing about being my age is

698
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: it's your problem. So no, that's right, But I mean

699
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: you think about so what do you like take major

700
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: pending issues okay, the national debt and then related issues

701
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: the pending and solvency of the Social Security Trust Fund,

702
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: which will result in major reduction of benefits, and then

703
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: the pending and solvency in the same year. I think

704
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: it's twenty thirty three of the Health Insurance Trust Fund

705
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: in medicare you think we're all hospitals have suffered because

706
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 2: of Medicaid cuts. Wait till the Medicare cuts come. So,

707
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: I mean, these are are huge problems that are going

708
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: to affect people. And is Congress doing anything about this?

709
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: The answer is nothing, punt. You know what they'll end

710
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: up doing. They will end up appointing a condition. Now,

711
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: I was Bob carry from Nebraska and I were the

712
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: co chairs of something called the Carrie Danforth Commission in

713
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four to deal with these problems?

714
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: Was this a successor to the old wasn't there a

715
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: Moni Han Commission before that? Wasn't this yours was a

716
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: successor to what moynihan was a part of, right during Reagan?

717
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: But there was wondering Reaganimpson bowls. I remember Simpson balls

718
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: after that?

719
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: So and what happened to those?

720
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

721
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: So, Tanaschel, So we have now we we have a

722
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: we have it's been created. The name of it is Congress.

723
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: It's not named carried in for their Simpson bulls. It's

724
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: called Congress. So here's my idea. What would happen if

725
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: Congress would cancel just one of its vacation times, just one,

726
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: it could keep the other eight or nine or whatever

727
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: of them. Yeah, cancel one and just deal with these problems.

728
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: Just legislate, show us and by the way, let us watch, yes,

729
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 1: let's watch the process. I remember one of my favorite

730
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: moments was when Obama hosted Republican senators and they debated

731
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: Obamacare in front of the American people, and everybody learned

732
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: something about that process. You didn't have to agree with

733
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: the idea or not, but it was so healthy to

734
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: see Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama going back and forth

735
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: about it. You're like, Okay, this is kind of what

736
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: our founders hoped would happen.

737
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: Or or the alternative and the alternative. Why not just

738
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: have a little back room politics among real politicians and decide, okay,

739
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: we'll come out of this with something.

740
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: Right, as you the way it worked. When people want

741
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: something to pass, you find reasons to support legislation. When

742
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: you wanted not to pass, you can find reasons not

743
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: to support.

744
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: Right.

745
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure every vote you cast in the affirmative you

746
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: could have made the case to go against your go

747
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: against that vote if that's what you wanted.

748
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: To do, right, Yeah, I guess I don't know.

749
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: The point is, everything's a compromise everything. How often did

750
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: you vote for a perfect bill?

751
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: Okay, No, that is exactly right. And that's how it

752
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: was designed. I mean that is how the frame that

753
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 2: the Constitution designed it. They designed it, They designed the

754
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: legislative process. It's a place of.

755
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: Compromise, and it was supposed to be incrementalism.

756
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: They designed it as they designed it as sausage making. Yeah,

757
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: and I happen to think sausage making is a good

758
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: thing to do.

759
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: Yes, And you don't want to worry.

760
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: And hopefully it's going to be relatively good sausage. But

761
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: it's not going to be it's not going to be,

762
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 2: you know, a prim rib. It's going to be sausage.

763
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here. On two questions

764
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: that always befuddle the Senate these days. One is judicial

765
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: nominations and the other is the filibuster. Yeah, I'm a

766
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: I've obsessively read Federalist seventy eight, which is Hamilton's defense

767
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: of the of the judiciary, and most importantly, of what

768
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: he thinks will make a good judiciary. He's essentially outlining

769
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: heap he comes. He comes out against the election of judges.

770
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: He says, you can't have these as elections. So why

771
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: state some states do this is beyond me, but I'm

772
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: going to set that aside. But the goal was as

773
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: neutral of arbiters as you can get, and now they don't.

774
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: He doesn't say how it should be done right. He

775
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: doesn't expressly say it should be two thirds of the Senate,

776
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: three quarters of the Senate, whatever. He just says the

777
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: goal should be that we're a long way away from

778
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: that goal. I would argue that, unfortunately, these black robes

779
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 1: are red and blue. Right. I'm not saying every liberal

780
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: justice it only thinks about being a liberal before being

781
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: a justice, and vice versa. But that's what the public sees,

782
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: and it feels as if the judiciary is just another

783
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 1: political game. How would you? And look, I can make

784
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: the case that Harry Reid did this, or Mitch McConnell,

785
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: I think they collectively broke this. Personally, I think everybody's

786
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: got dirty hands here. But what would you what would

787
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: be a better way to create our judiciary. I don't

788
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: like fifty votes. I don't. I think it's made the

789
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: judiciary more partisan than it needs to be. But I

790
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: also respect the fact that the founders, when they wanted

791
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: two thirds or three quarters. They actually said two thirds

792
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: or three quarters if they wanted super majority, they wrote

793
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: it in there, and this one they were trusting us

794
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: not to worry about a supermajority. I kind of think

795
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: it turns out we're wrong, But but what say you?

796
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 2: So? I think that we publicly have thought of the

797
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: judiciary is yet another policy making branch of government, and

798
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: I think that that's that goes back away. I thought that,

799
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: you know, when I was around, like Supreme Court nomination,

800
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: it was all about, Okay, what's going to be the

801
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: policy result of this judge, particularly on the issue of

802
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: abortion is there? Are they going to stick with roversus way?

803
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: Are they an row versus way? It was viewed as

804
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 2: a policy making branch of government. It was not created

805
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: to be that. It was crazy an arbiter right. It

806
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: was yes, And the meaning of judicial conservatism as opposed

807
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: to political conservatism is judicial restraint. It's judges saying, wait

808
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 2: a second, if we're going to get into deciding a case,

809
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 2: it has to be based on the clear understanding of

810
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: the meaning of the Constitution and not broadening the constitution

811
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 2: to the point where I've got a freehand to come

812
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: out with policy results. That's what's happened. I'm not sure

813
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 2: now they've got rid of the pillarbous fear for judges.

814
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: I know that. You know, I was very much supportive

815
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 2: of Clarence Thomas in his nomination. There's no way he

816
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 2: could have been. I think we ended up with fifty

817
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: one votes.

818
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: In a Democratic Senate. I mean, I always have to

819
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: remind people Clarence Thomas got confirmed by a Democratic Senate.

820
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if that nomination even gets accepted today

821
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: right now.

822
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 2: It was you know, he used to work for me. Yes,

823
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: that was my involvement. He I gave him this first

824
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 2: job out of law school, and he worked for me,

825
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,479
Speaker 2: and when I was state Attorney general, and he worked

826
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: for me when I was a senator, and I just

827
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 2: saw the suffering of the human being at that time.

828
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: I can say that that process was you want a

829
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: good weight loss program? Yeah? That did it? That Thamas? Yeah?

830
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, do you did that process scar him? Do

831
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: you think it changed his views?

832
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 2: No? I you know, amazingly, No, I don't. I think

833
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: he is. I think the sort of the presentation of

834
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: him was sort of this scowling he's the opposite he is.

835
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: I've heard this from people who know him, his friends,

836
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: that he's a jolly guy.

837
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:41,919
Speaker 2: He's really a good guy, the jokester guy. From people

838
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: who have clerked, from other Supreme Court justices, that Clarence

839
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 2: is the most popular justice among all the clerks in

840
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court building. He's he's just a good guy,

841
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: and he's a very caring person. That's what he is.

842
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: That's what was so brutal about that whole yeah episode,

843
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: restoring the filibuster for justices. I don't know anybody he

844
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: confirmed anymore.

845
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: No, no, no, and I don't know. But instead of restoring

846
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: the number with it, here's what I had a friend

847
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: at the Bush who was part of Bush's Bush forty

848
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: three's White House Council's office and said, you know, when

849
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: he was making nominations, when they were finding nominees, betting

850
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: nominees for the for the federal and circuit level, you know,

851
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 1: he said, when you know you have to get sixty votes,

852
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: you find a certain type of person. When you know

853
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 1: you only need fifty votes, you can go with a

854
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: different type of person. So it has changed, whatever we think.

855
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: It has changed the makeup, right, we have more more

856
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: ideological legal thinkers now, maybe that's healthy over time, but

857
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: that can be damaging.

858
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 2: In the Yeah, because in different moments understand that. I

859
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 2: think that's right. I think, you know, necessity maybe the

860
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: mother of invention here is, how are we going to

861
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: confirm anybody? No, there are people, there are people in

862
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 2: the Senate now who simply vote against nominees for the

863
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: other party. They just automatic quotes against them. Right. You know,

864
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 2: I counted up the number of times when I was

865
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: in the Senate that I voted against any nominee for anything,

866
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: and this would be all of uh Carter and the

867
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: first part of Clinton.

868
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: And all of Reagan, so basically years of twelve years

869
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: of another right one.

870
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but all of these, including like six years of

871
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: nominees for the person of the other party, only twice

872
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: I ever voted against the nominee. I mean, I just said, okay,

873
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 2: this is the president's now. These people just automatically, yeah,

874
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: vote against them.

875
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: So let me ask about the filibuster in general. Would

876
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: you I'm going to guess you think it's this process

877
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: is overused, Yes, which is created because what I think

878
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: the real problem with governing these days is the reconciliation process.

879
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: What was created as sort of a as you you

880
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: just use the phrase great necessities. The mother of all invention,

881
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: the reconciliation invention by Bob BYRD was essentially a mother

882
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: of you know, one of those moments where they were like, hey,

883
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: we can't ever get a budget passed if we if

884
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: we try to keep doing this with the with sixty votes.

885
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: And yet you know, I was, I certainly was raised

886
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: a part of the generation. I'm going to guess you

887
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: were too, of the mister Smith myth. And I say

888
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: that it's a myth, but there is this idea that hey,

889
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: one person can make a difference, one person can stand up.

890
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: So what should the rilibuster rule be if in your

891
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: in your vision of it, regardless of what it is, now,

892
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: what would well, how.

893
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: Would you like to see it. I do think it's

894
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 2: I do think it's overused. I mean, now it's commonly

895
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: said that it takes sixty votes to pass anything. Yeah,

896
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: but I do think it's overused. I think we never

897
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 2: thought that way. But I do think that it's important

898
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 2: to retain the filibuster. I do believe that because otherwise

899
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 2: that you just have these wild gyrations. Right, who's in

900
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: the majority at a given time, and the filibuster at

901
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: least forces some degree of bipartisanship that otherwise wouldn't exist

902
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 2: at all.

903
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what's the goal in twenty twenty six of

904
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: restore Republican legacy? What would be a good year as

905
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: far as your concern.

906
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 2: Well, we're so, we're working on it. We're that our

907
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: Republican legacy is really two couple of things that it's doing. One,

908
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 2: we're messaging. We're trying to articulate in as many forms

909
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 2: as we can, the basic conservative principles that define the

910
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 2: Republican Party. We're organizing at the statewide level, We're recruiting

911
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 2: state chairs, and then increasingly we're going to get in

912
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 2: the business of trying to influence and support conservative basic Republicans,

913
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 2: fundamental Republicans, traditional Republicans in elections, both for party positions,

914
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: party organizational positions, and for elections themselves. So I hope

915
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 2: that we will, you know, have a team on the field,

916
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: and I hope that I hope that there will be

917
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 2: some candidates. I just heard of one yesterday and Nebraska,

918
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: and mostly I don't know these people themselves, but that's

919
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 2: what we're looking for. People who are good, responsible conservatives,

920
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: which is not what mega is today.

921
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: And by conservative you mean less government, not more government, right,

922
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: I mean government not involved in business. I mean what

923
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,439
Speaker 1: what what you know any other principles you would add

924
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: into that?

925
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, uh, certainly fiscal hawks right.

926
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: Certainly limited role for government and its intervention with the

927
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 2: private sector and the economy, and universities at law firms

928
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 2: and all of that. Certainly, respect for the rule of law,

929
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: which means not weaponizing government against political enemies. Certainly, respect

930
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: for the constitutional order, which means not the extreme concentration

931
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 2: of power in the president. Certainly a national defense second

932
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: to none. And also a foreign policy that supports our

933
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: our friends and our allies that would include Ukraine. All

934
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 2: of that comprises the Republican Party as it has existed

935
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 2: for decades and decades and decades. All of that has

936
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 2: been scrapped, not modified, but I mean thrown in the

937
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 2: trash heap by Donald Trump, all of it. So we're

938
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: just standing for principle, and we're looking for people who

939
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: will make that stand in elections.

940
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: Well, I hope this conversation provides some hope to some

941
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: of my I would say demoralized conservative friends who just

942
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: look at this and the character doesn't count anymore morals

943
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: and ethics.

944
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 2: You know.

945
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: Look, I can tell you this, Senator dan Forth. I

946
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: always tell you as a as a high character person,

947
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: and I thought that was an asset in American politics,

948
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: and the high character people are there doesn't seem to

949
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: be room for them anymore. I hope you're I admire

950
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 1: that this is what you're trying to leave as a legacy.

951
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:49,959
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

952
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, good luck, enjoy the rest of the holiday season,

953
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: and I'll check back in closer we get to the election.

954
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 2: Good thanks, Jech.

955
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,160
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