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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Good evening, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: and this is the Friday Night special Crime Stories, and

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Speaker 1: tonight does it never end? With Jeffrey Epstein, even from

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Speaker 1: the grave, the man is causing chaos amongst crime victims.

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Speaker 1: This after four people connected to the case have died

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Speaker 1: allegedly by suicide, including the most recent sex attack victim,

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Speaker 1: sex attack child victim, Virginia Giffrey. Mystery surrounding the Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein files after the United States ag Bondi claims quote

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of videos. I'm Nancy Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Very surprising statement from the US Attorney General, Pam Bondie.

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Speaker 1: The White House promises to release more files from its

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking investigation of jeff Epstein. The FBI, according to Bondy,

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Speaker 1: is reviewing quote tens of thousands of videos of Epstein

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Speaker 1: quote with children or child porn. Okay, what a sicco

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Speaker 1: Uh what do we know? The comment made by Bondi

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Speaker 1: was made after a similar remark made to a stranger

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Speaker 1: with a hidden camera, and it raises stakes for Bondy

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Speaker 1: to prove she has in her possession unseen and compelling evidence.

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Speaker 1: Now recall this is after Bondi promised a document dump,

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Speaker 1: she talked about it and angered many elements of the

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Speaker 1: government when the documents were not delivered Yet now weeks

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Speaker 1: after the AG's remarks, it still remains unclear to what

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Speaker 1: she was referring and when the documents would be released.

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Speaker 1: What's the hold up? Who is in those videos? Who

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Speaker 1: is named in the documents? On the heels of yet

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Speaker 1: another suicide linked to these documents and this case talking

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Speaker 1: about Virginia's Gufray. What's happening?

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Speaker 2: Six years after his death, convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 2: is back in the news, and despite the FBI maintaining

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Speaker 2: that the millionaire financier committed suicide in prison, doubts. Lingerer

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Speaker 2: added to that phray is the fact that the FBI

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Speaker 2: released prison video of Epstein had nearly three minutes cut

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Speaker 2: out of it before it was made public. The video

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Speaker 2: is from the only camera near Epstein's cell the night

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Speaker 2: before he was found dead, and it had been described

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Speaker 2: as the full raw video. The roughly eleven hour video

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Speaker 2: was released in an effort to stave off the continued

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Speaker 2: rumors that foul play was involved in Epstein's death, news

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Speaker 2: of three missing minutes is just fanning the flames. Attorney

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Speaker 2: General Pambondy has attributed the three minute discrepancy to a

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Speaker 2: nightly system reset. It's unclear if the missing footage could

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Speaker 2: show anything relevant. The existence of Epstein documents is also

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Speaker 2: garnering headlines. Government officials confirmed there is no Epstein client list,

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Speaker 2: meaning wealthy and powerful men who were provided with underaged

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Speaker 2: girls for sex. Attorney General Pambondy released what she called

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Speaker 2: the first phase of the declassified Epstein files in February,

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Speaker 2: flight logs, an evidence list, and a redacted list of

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Speaker 2: content acts. The AG said at the time the Justice

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Speaker 2: Department will release more files after redacting victims' names. When asked,

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Speaker 2: Bondi said a list of Epstein's clients was on her

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Speaker 2: desk for review, but in this month's memo, the Justice

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Speaker 2: Department said there was no incriminating client list, and when

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Speaker 2: pressed about it at a press conference, Bondy sidestepped.

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Speaker 3: The issue today is about fentanyl overdoses throughout our country

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Speaker 3: and people who have lost loved ones to fentanyl. That's

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Speaker 3: the message that we're here to send today. Nothing about Epstein.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to talk about Epstein.

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Speaker 2: The July memo stated, quote, there was no credible evidence

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Speaker 2: found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.

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Speaker 2: We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation

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Speaker 2: against uncharged third parties with the political for growing. President

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump said on Thursday that he asked Attorney General

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Speaker 2: Bondy to release grand jury test Stimoni related to Epstein's

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Speaker 2: criminal prosecution. Bondy replied in a social media post, President Trump,

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Speaker 2: we are ready to move the court tomorrow to unseal

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Speaker 2: the grand jury transcripts.

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Speaker 1: What do we believe is in the documents? Let's start

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 4: New Epstein files are teased to be released as Attorney

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Speaker 4: General Pam Bundy promises many more files to come.

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Speaker 1: Presidential counselor Alena Haba says that prosecutions will absolutely go

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Speaker 1: forward based on what is discovered in the Epstein files.

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Speaker 4: But who, what, where, when? Why?

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Speaker 1: Listen to Haba, do you think by releasing information from

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Speaker 1: these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: There is Hava speaking to our friend Piers Morgan on

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Speaker 1: Piers Morgan Uncensored and she's joined with the US Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: Pam Bondy.

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Speaker 3: A source had told me where the documents were being kept,

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Speaker 3: Southern District of New York.

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Speaker 1: Shock.

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Speaker 3: So we got them all by, hopefully all of them

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Speaker 3: Friday at eight am, thousands of pages of documents that.

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Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox News. That is the US

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Speaker 1: Attorney General, the top cop for our entire country. Now

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Speaker 1: they are saying that documents have been stored. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what that means in the Southern District of New

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Speaker 1: York now, she said, shocker. I'm not sure what she

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Speaker 1: means by that. I can only suppose, so I'll move forward. Stored.

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Speaker 1: Why are they being stored? I don't understand that, because

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Speaker 1: let me go straight out to Angrea Lewis joining me

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Speaker 1: now partner at Sercy Law form in Palm Beach, Florida.

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Speaker 1: But for my purposes former felony prosecutor in Palm Beach County.

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Speaker 1: When Epstein's sweetheart deal, it makes me sick gag when

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Speaker 1: I think about that deal. I should probably hold you

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Speaker 1: personally responsible, but since you weren't there at a time

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Speaker 1: at the time, I guess I can't. But why would

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Speaker 1: these documents be stored? Why wouldn't they be evaluated, analyzed

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Speaker 1: to determine if there are other code defendits other than

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Speaker 1: Epstein and his pamp Julaine Maxwell.

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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, you just hit the nail on the head.

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Speaker 6: And to be clear, I was not at the office

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Speaker 6: when this case was prosecuted, thankfully, because I do believe

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Speaker 6: that this was a serious miscarriage of justice. He should

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Speaker 6: have never gotten the sentence that he got. It was ludicrous.

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Speaker 6: That said to your question about these this evidence being stored, Well, naturally,

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Speaker 6: anytime there's a case like this, you would expect that

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Speaker 6: the evidence is being held somewhere, but it's also generally

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Speaker 6: available on electronic format. We can see that in the

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Speaker 6: evidence log that we've received. All that they have given

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Speaker 6: us so far is this evidence log detailing that there

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Speaker 6: are in fact, photos, videos, witness statements, a laundry list

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Speaker 6: of other evidence out there that has never been disclosed

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Speaker 6: to this day.

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Speaker 1: Let's just cut through it. Who do you think that

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Speaker 1: Epstein and Julianne Maxwell his hinch person are hanging out

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Speaker 1: with nuns and priests and virgins. They're rich, they're child molesters,

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Speaker 1: they're trafficking young girls. So who do rich people hang

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Speaker 1: out with Andrea, Other rich people who do you think,

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Speaker 1: I mean deduction, who is going to be in the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files? Other rich and influential people just like him.

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Speaker 1: That's why they're sitting on it.

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Speaker 6: That's why, well, that's exactly why someone needs to go

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Speaker 6: through them, and they need to stop talking about it,

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Speaker 6: and they need to stop saying they're going to be

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Speaker 6: prosecuting people and then actually do it.

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Speaker 1: Guys, you just heard Alena Hubba speaking to our friend

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Speaker 1: Piers Morgan, and you heard the AGPM BONDI saying we're

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Speaker 1: on it, We're on it. The files have been stored

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Speaker 1: in the Southern District of New York. What else does

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Speaker 1: she have to say?

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Speaker 3: Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report

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Speaker 3: as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.

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Speaker 1: That from our friends at Fox News. So they're going

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Speaker 1: through it all right now, let me understand City Summer

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Speaker 1: joining me Crime Online dot Com. Epstein died years ago

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Speaker 1: at MBC Metropolitan Detention Center. How long have they had

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Speaker 1: since Epstein died to go through these files?

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Speaker 7: Nancy?

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Speaker 8: Now we're going on six years that they've had the

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Speaker 8: opportunity to go through these files.

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Speaker 9: Release them to the.

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Speaker 8: American public and prosecute people who are involved in this

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Speaker 8: horrific sex trafficking ring.

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Speaker 1: So years have passed, you know, I'm gonna circle back

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Speaker 1: in just a moment to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate

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Speaker 1: warden at MDC. A lot, a lot of murky water

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Speaker 1: surrounding the death of Epstein. Just think about it, think

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Speaker 1: about it. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all,

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Speaker 1: all right, I don't think people can keep there yet

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Speaker 1: shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy like OJA was framed.

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Speaker 1: Didn't happen. However, in this case, what could be the

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Speaker 1: delay in making these files public? What could possibly be

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Speaker 1: the delay and us finding out who were the cohorts

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Speaker 1: and possible codefendants of Jeffrey Epstein and is very wide

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Speaker 1: ranging child sex trafficking ring, Well we know a little

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Speaker 1: bit more. Listen.

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Speaker 10: After just two weeks in office, Attorney General Pam Bondi

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Speaker 10: announces the release of documents related to the late Fine

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Speaker 10: nancier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Bondi says that

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Speaker 10: the delay in releasing the documents is due to efforts

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Speaker 10: to redact sensitive information to protect the over two hundred

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Speaker 10: victims privacy. The so called Phase one release is expected

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Speaker 10: to include flight logs and names of individuals associated with Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Joining me is doctor Kimberly Melman, Erosco, executive director

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Speaker 1: of Freedom Light, human trafficking expert witness, author of Hidden

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Speaker 1: and Plane Sight, America, Slaves of the New Millennium. You

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Speaker 1: have uncovered so much regarding sex trafficking and child sex trafficking.

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Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good feeling at this point. Epstein's

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Speaker 1: been dead for years, many say, murdered in MDC because

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Speaker 1: they they the elusive. They did not want their names

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Speaker 1: dragged through the mud. So I've got a pretty good

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Speaker 1: feeling doctor that at this point the victims really don't

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Speaker 1: care if their names are out there as long as

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Speaker 1: they can get justice. Who do you think is being

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Speaker 1: protected by not releasing these documents the victims, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not buying that.

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Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, First, I do disagree with you. I do

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Speaker 11: think that the victims still do want some anonymity, They

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Speaker 11: do want their names protected.

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Speaker 1: At least some of them.

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Speaker 11: The issue here is, and this is something that is

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Speaker 11: very very key, some of these victims recruited others. Admittedly

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Speaker 11: this is in the media. They recruited others for payment.

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Speaker 11: Some of them were able to rebuff his sexual advances

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Speaker 11: and instead recruited their friends. So where do you draw

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Speaker 11: the line between victim and co conspirator? And that's an

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Speaker 11: issue that they're going to have, and they're going to

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Speaker 11: face the issue that I to.

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Speaker 1: Get an idea where to draw the line, doctor, doctor

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Speaker 1: Kimberly melim or Osco. And that would be anyone that

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Speaker 1: was ever forced into sex or lured into sex with

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, I would consider a victim. Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: with me, psychoanalyst. You have analyzed the victims of child

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking many many times, and these are children as

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Speaker 1: young as fourteen, and I believe younger. If Epstein or

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Speaker 1: Julanne Maxwell got one of these little girls to go

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Speaker 1: speak to her little girlfriends, I still consider the original

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Speaker 1: girl to be a victim.

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Speaker 12: I do too, because Jeffrey Epstein groomed them, and when

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Speaker 12: a victim is groomed, they lose perspective. And also the

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Speaker 12: grooming takes place in the context of an interpersonal relationship

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Speaker 12: where they maybe felt that Epstein was going to be

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Speaker 12: mad at them. Disappointed in them, maybe withdraw financial reward,

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Speaker 12: punish them in some way, so that strong, strong attachment

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Speaker 12: system and confusion over whether they're to blame or he's

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Speaker 12: to blame is going to drive them towards behaviors that

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Speaker 12: they would not normally engage in.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I feel sick right now. I think I

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Speaker 1: just saw a picture of Epstein and Juline Maxwell. When

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Speaker 1: I think about these two rolling in money, multi millionaires,

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Speaker 1: homes all over the world, mansions all over the world.

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Speaker 1: And who do they pick out, Doctor Kimberly melman Erosco.

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Speaker 1: They pick out runaways. They pick out children, girls from

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Speaker 1: single parent homes where the mom's working, Like I would

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Speaker 1: come home from school and nobody be there. Both my

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Speaker 1: parents were working. But these girls only had one parent

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Speaker 1: at home, coming from a broken family, feeling bad about themselves,

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Speaker 1: blaming themselves possibly for the breakup or don't. They targeted

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Speaker 1: girls with problems and those were their victims. These two

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Speaker 1: multi millionaires that were born with silver spoons up their

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Speaker 1: wear ends target these little girls. There they are their

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Speaker 1: private plane. You know what bite me? Why do they

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Speaker 1: target little girls like this, Doctor Nancy.

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Speaker 11: This is a common tactics that is used by anyone

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Speaker 11: looking to victimize another. They look for a child or

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Speaker 11: a person who has a void in their life. If

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Speaker 11: they look at Maslow's higher give needs. What do they need?

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Speaker 11: Are they housing insecure, food insecure? Do they have low

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Speaker 11: self esteem? Do they have the desire for self actualization?

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Speaker 11: They're making false promises. The reality is though he also

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Speaker 11: bribed them with money, and it wasn't just little girls

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Speaker 11: and children, it was adults who were recruiting others. And

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Speaker 11: those adults also self proclaim to be victims. So that's

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Speaker 11: the issue here when we're looking through these records. Yes,

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Speaker 11: I agree with you one hundred percent. Any child who

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Speaker 11: is manipulated by a grown adult is a victim either

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Speaker 11: of statutory rape or sexual assault, absolutely bar none. But

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Speaker 11: the problem here is what happens when adults are being

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Speaker 11: victimized but also recruiting others. And so this is a

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Speaker 11: more complex case than I think the public has led

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Speaker 11: to believe. And the other issue is there are documents

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Speaker 11: redacted that we should be able to see. For example,

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Speaker 11: the records related to Jeffrey Epstein's first suicide attempts. Supposedly

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Speaker 11: it's being redacted for B seven A that redaction is

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Speaker 11: because of an ongoing investigation, and this is suggestive, suggestive

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Speaker 11: that it was possible assault and he was reporting that.

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Speaker 11: And also there are other things that are very suspicious.

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Speaker 11: His roommate, his cellmate is no longer alive. These are

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Speaker 11: issues that do need to be further explored, and we

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Speaker 11: need people like you to dig into and hold these

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Speaker 11: governmental employees accountable for releasing this information.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. Mystery surrounding the Epstein files,

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Speaker 1: as the US Attorney General claims, quote, tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of videos, sex videos, child porn. Tens of thousands of

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Speaker 1: videos are amongst the documents BONDI promised to release months

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Speaker 1: and months ago. What's the hold up this after a

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Speaker 1: fourth suicide connected to the Epstein case and alleged suicide,

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Speaker 1: I might add, I'm talking about Virginia's Guphrey What happened

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Speaker 1: to Virginia?

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Speaker 13: Virginia Geupfree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant

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Speaker 13: in mar A, Lago when she is approached by socialite

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Speaker 13: Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,

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Speaker 13: American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two

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Speaker 13: hundred dollars rate permissage. Virginia eagerly accepts her massage.

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Speaker 4: My rear end.

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Speaker 1: This is just a little girl, like so many of

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Speaker 1: the other little girls that were lured in by Epstein,

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Speaker 1: whom many insists did not commit suicide behind bars, lured

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Speaker 1: in by Epstein and his hitch person bills above from

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Speaker 1: hell Jelaane Maxwell. Now she at this moment is trying

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Speaker 1: to seek a presidential pardon. She was convicted for her

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Speaker 1: role in this. Wow, do you think Virginia's testimony could

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Speaker 1: have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon? Think about it?

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel. But first, two crime stories.

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Speaker 1: Investigative reporter Dave Mac. You're telling me, Dave Mac, that

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Speaker 1: Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,

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Speaker 1: how did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?

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Speaker 1: Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me

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Speaker 1: that she was released while suicidal? And where did this

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Speaker 1: happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population

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Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females

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Speaker 1: median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that

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Speaker 1: in near Gabby, Australia, they have a top notch forensics

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Speaker 1: team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that

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Speaker 1: she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,

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Speaker 1: potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all

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Speaker 1: die of suicide, you know, Dave Mac. In Russia, they

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Speaker 1: push you out of a window. So Dave Mack, tell

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Speaker 1: me about Virginia's suicide.

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Speaker 14: Well, what we know about virginia suicide Nancy actually comes

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Speaker 14: from her family saying she took her own life. We

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Speaker 14: don't know anything more than that. Except for this Nancy,

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Speaker 14: she was actually staying at her She was separated from

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Speaker 14: her husband and staying at their farmhouse, a one point

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Speaker 14: three million dollar farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that

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Speaker 14: is very lightly populated. Her brothers were staying with her

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Speaker 14: in this farmhouse. She's four weeks removed from leaving the hospital,

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Speaker 14: as you mentioned, and she is there apparently, if we

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Speaker 14: are to believe what we're being told, that she committed

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Speaker 14: suicide in the middle of a million dollar plus farm

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Speaker 14: mansion and she is the moment.

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Speaker 1: Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to put the

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Speaker 1: farm mansion up on real estate size. Okay, we'll get

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Speaker 1: back to the as you say, million dollar mansion in

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Speaker 1: just a moment asking you about the cod Now, we

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Speaker 1: don't have a cause of death that has not been released.

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Speaker 1: We don't know if there's been an autopsy here in

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Speaker 1: the US. Of course, there would be an autopsy immediately

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Speaker 1: whenever there's a question, was then autopsy? Was there a

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Speaker 1: toxicology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac, that her family

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Speaker 1: said it's a suicide. Well, let me differ with you,

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Speaker 1: because her father, her own father, is calling for an investigation,

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Speaker 1: as is her sister in law and others. They say

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Speaker 1: that she specifically stated, if I die, believe me. I

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Speaker 1: did not commit suicide.

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Speaker 14: Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her

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Speaker 14: father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts

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Speaker 14: tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,

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Speaker 14: not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide

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Speaker 14: in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm

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Speaker 14: making it publicly known that in no way, shape or

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Speaker 14: form in my suicidal. If something happens to me in

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Speaker 14: the sake of my family, do not let this go

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Speaker 14: away and help me to protect them. Too many evil

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Speaker 14: people want to see me quieted.

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Speaker 1: So Dave mac, I'm not quite sure where you're getting

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Speaker 1: your information, but you just heard the father and a

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Speaker 1: sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: brother is demanding an investigation. Joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's

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Speaker 1: renowned chief medical examiner out of Terrent County That's fort Worth.

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Speaker 1: Never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands

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Speaker 1: of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett

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Speaker 1: School of Medicine at TCU and star of a hit

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Speaker 1: series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,

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Speaker 1: win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP

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Speaker 1: standard operating procedure.

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Speaker 15: Anytime there's something that's concerning you always have an autopsy.

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Speaker 15: So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,

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Speaker 15: or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a

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Speaker 15: medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases with natural

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Speaker 15: deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied, that they don't have

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Speaker 15: a medical history, died outside of a hospital or died

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Speaker 15: within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will

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Speaker 15: also be autosis. And then of course any child under

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Speaker 15: the age of six, it's autopsy automatically.

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Speaker 1: So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in

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Speaker 1: the US, wouldn't there have been no question at autosic.

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Speaker 15: Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.

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Speaker 15: With the history of with the history with Epstein, with

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Speaker 15: the recent history of a possible car accident, and then

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Speaker 15: the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of factors

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Speaker 15: in play here that could be something that's going on

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Speaker 15: that makes it not a suicide and can be a homicide.

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Speaker 1: We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Gifrey and

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Speaker 1: this is one of my many, many questions. Where's the

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Speaker 1: death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?

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Speaker 1: Where is her body? Don't tell me, She's already been

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Speaker 1: cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated

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Speaker 1: this The Crack Detectives in near Gabby, Australia, where there

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Speaker 1: are two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses? Who

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Speaker 1: found her? How did they find her? Did she hang herself?

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Speaker 1: Did she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're

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Speaker 1: measurements taken. And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood?

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Speaker 1: And of course that can never be argued to a

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Speaker 1: jury statistics, But what you roll the dice? What are

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Speaker 1: the statistics that four witnesses connected to a sex ring,

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Speaker 1: a proven sex ring of the very rich and powerful,

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Speaker 1: just as the Fez claim they're going to really all

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Speaker 1: the documents, including a list of massage therapists. Epstein paid

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Speaker 1: for her, Virginia Giffrey, to have massage lessons? Is she

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Speaker 1: on the list? Was she about to be called as

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Speaker 1: a witness? How did she get tangled up with a perv?

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Speaker 1: A billionaire, but a perv? Nonetheless like Epstein? This is how.

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Speaker 16: Sometimes he would just jerk off in front of them

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Speaker 16: and rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.

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Speaker 16: Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It

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Speaker 16: kind of works like a pyramid scheme. Gaelan brought me in,

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Speaker 16: I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.

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Speaker 17: Gaelan tells me that.

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Speaker 1: I have to do.

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Speaker 16: For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made

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Speaker 16: me sick.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't expect.

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Speaker 16: It from Royal.

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Speaker 1: That is Virginia Giffrey speaking about how she was lured

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Speaker 1: by Jelane Maxwell as a little girl, told she could

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Speaker 1: make two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to

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Speaker 1: be a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually

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Speaker 1: entailed was something very very different and illegal. You know,

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Speaker 1: when children are molested, they are never the same. They

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Speaker 1: may look the same to me and you, but on

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Speaker 1: the inside they never recover. They may learn to go

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Speaker 1: about their business, hold down a job, try to have

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Speaker 1: a marriage or a family, They're never the same. Now,

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Speaker 1: what you were hearing is from our friends at the

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Speaker 1: Miami Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who

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Speaker 1: vowed to never give up the fight, but she committed

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Speaker 1: to suicide. Just on the eve of the federal release

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Speaker 1: of those documents. I'm going to go to a very

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Speaker 1: special guest. You may not know her name now, but

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Speaker 1: you will. She, like Virginia was lured in by Epstein,

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Speaker 1: she actually went to Epstein Island. You know what, I

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Speaker 1: will let her tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining

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Speaker 1: me now.

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Speaker 14: She is the.

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Speaker 1: Star and the host of a podcast from now on,

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Speaker 1: and it's a real honor to speak with you, Miss Phillips.

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Speaker 1: How did you meet, if that's the right word, Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 17: So, I was on a.

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Speaker 18: Photo shoot in early two thousand at the island of

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Speaker 18: Tortola in the British West Indies, very close to his island,

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Speaker 18: and we had a free day, and another young blonde

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Speaker 18: Polish model who looks like Virginia said, you know, I

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Speaker 18: have a friend who owns island. He's been so wonderful

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Speaker 18: to me. He got me my visa to live in

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Speaker 18: the United States, and so she was just said, you know,

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Speaker 18: let's go for the day, and so I just said, okay, sure,

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Speaker 18: I'll go with you.

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Speaker 17: And so I went over to the island and.

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Speaker 18: I saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool

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Speaker 18: with the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman. And then later

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Speaker 18: on we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,

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Speaker 18: and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked

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Speaker 18: on my door and told myself and the other blonde

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Speaker 18: girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey. Actually she

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Speaker 18: said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just

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Speaker 18: was like, what are you talking about? What massage? And

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Speaker 18: so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes you know, massages.

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Speaker 18: You just you have to do it. So, you know,

434
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 18: I was trapped on the island. I didn't know where

435
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 18: to go. I just you know, followed the girl into

436
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 18: his room to do the masage with this other young girl,

437
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 18: and I ended up being abused on that island.

438
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Lisa, When you say you were abused, what happened?

439
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 18: Well, like Virginia was explaining the massages, so the massages

440
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 18: turned into you know, touching and into assault.

441
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein?

442
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 17: Yes, I was.

443
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?

444
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lyn's Warriors,

445
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host

446
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube? Does it ever end? When

447
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: I hear Lisa and I look at her, She's so beautiful,

448
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life

449
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: ever been the same? I mean mine has has been

450
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: the same since I was a victim of violent crime.

451
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: It's never been the same. What did that do to you?

452
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 18: You can see I still get emotional, but I kept

453
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 18: it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died

454
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 18: in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out.

455
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 17: I thought, Wow, this is a courageous woman.

456
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 18: Wow, she has like this bravery to speak out about

457
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 18: you know what happened to her with Jeffrey. But it

458
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 18: was her story about Prince Andrew was the reason why

459
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 18: I spoke out. Because I had a young friend, also

460
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 18: a blonde similar to Virginia's look, who was told by

461
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 18: Jeffrey to.

462
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 17: Go into a room to have sex with the Prince.

463
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 18: And that memory I always remembered because when I met

464
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 18: Jeffrey for the very first time on the island, I

465
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 18: remembered seeing that man there. So my story connected me

466
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 18: that way Andrew. Yes, yes, Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.

467
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 1: Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,

468
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: living in a mansion. And I'm telling you this girl's

469
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: battle now, woman Virginia, Jeffrey's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.

470
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed

471
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,

472
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dance, So now

473
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,

474
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around

475
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: val Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,

476
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you

477
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.

478
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 5: Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed

479
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 5: many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to

480
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 5: first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This

481
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 5: takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happened,

482
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 5: so we must all commend her. Second of all, Virginia Guffrey,

483
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 5: I will never believe killed herself. She bravely came out

484
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 5: as a warrior. And when she did that several years ago,

485
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 5: all of the other victims came forward and said, finally,

486
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 5: finally we have some support, resolution me attention. We're going

487
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: to get somewhere. Three facts.

488
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: Right away.

489
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 5: Law enforcement said, no foul play, nothing to see here.

490
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 5: That was number one, Number two. Virginia was in the

491
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 5: process of renovating her house number three. She was standing

492
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 5: for all the other victims. She would not do anything

493
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 5: to harm herself. She wanted to be that warrior for them.

494
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 5: And I have to add a fourth point. I don't

495
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 5: believe she would leave her children. Something happened here. We're

496
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: not getting the facts and will it ever d Nancy,

497
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 5: I'm afraid to say, and I don't like saying this. No,

498
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 5: this Epstein's story is never going to end. We're never

499
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 5: going to hear the truth and the facts about all

500
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 5: of this. Too many complicit, powerful people involved.

501
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: And another thing you heard Lynn Shaw say she was

502
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: in the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to

503
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: see her children. She would never leave them. But what

504
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: about this note what she said she was getting ready

505
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: to do battle.

506
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 19: Listen Virginia. Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to

507
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 19: release a quote written by Virginia found in a journal

508
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 19: at her Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,

509
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 19: sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are

510
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 19: drawn and we stand together to fight for the future

511
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 19: of victims. Is protesting the answer, I don't know, but

512
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 19: we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes

513
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 19: the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC

514
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 19: rally of sexual assault Survivors.

515
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 4: In a section of the note, she writes, we are

516
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: not going to go away.

517
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 13: Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started work working as

518
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 13: a traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.

519
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 4: But not all is as it seems.

520
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 14: Virginia, just a teen.

521
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 13: Is being asked to complete tasks that are far outside

522
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 13: of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into sexual

523
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 13: abuse tasks.

524
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: It makes it sound why Epstein's asking her to file documents.

525
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,

526
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and

527
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: she is not the only girl involved. According to a

528
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his

529
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: hintch person basically his pimp, Jelaine Maxwell, another millionaire, had

530
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure

531
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: where these girls, these young girls would go out and

532
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts

533
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: with older, wealthy and prestigious. Let me say clients. I

534
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And

535
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just

536
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the

537
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp

538
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you

539
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod

540
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to

541
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: a high school soccer game last night and the other

542
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness

543
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal

544
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.

545
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: She is not the first person connected to this investigation

546
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: to die off suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?

547
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 14: When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing

548
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 14: Caroly and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the

549
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 14: next four years, testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial

550
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 14: for sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in

551
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 14: a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age

552
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 14: of thirty six, leaving behind a husband and five children.

553
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 14: West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.

554
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 14: Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have

555
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 14: died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.

556
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 14: The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee

557
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 14: sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach

558
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 14: hotel from an accidental drug overdose.

559
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: After four alleged suicides connected to the Epstein case. And

560
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: whatever is in these documents, isn't it time we know

561
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: the truth? Remember when Attorney General William Barr insisted there

562
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: will be justice.

563
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 20: Listen, this case will continue on against anyone who was

564
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 20: complicit with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.

565
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: Or they're sleeping light logs right now. That's where our

566
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: friends at CBS. That was Attorney then Attorney General William

567
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: Barr insisting there's going to be justice. All of you

568
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: co defendants. You better not sleep easy tonight. Well they

569
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: are because years have passed and the FEDS have done nothing.

570
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: Why Because Epstein's rich, All of his friends were rich

571
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: and influential. He was flying around presidents, megalomaniacs, huge huge

572
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: business tycoons names we all know very well. We're in

573
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: his quote little black book. It's disgusting. And here is

574
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: former US attorney jumping on the bandwagon, Attorney alex Acosta.

575
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 21: We did what we did because we wanted to see

576
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 21: Epstein go to jail, so he needed to go to jail.

577
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: Alexander Acosta became US Attorney for the Southern District of

578
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: Florida in two thousand and five. That's the same year

579
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: that Palm Beach police began a thirteen month undercover investigation

580
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Epstein after allegations of sex trafficking miners. Epstein

581
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 2: was indicted, but Acosta arranged a plea deal without informing

582
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: the victims, that allowed Epstein to plead guilty to a

583
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: single state charge of solicitation and procuring a miner for prostitution.

584
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 4: The FBI delivers truckloads of files to be declassified in

585
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 4: the Jeffrey Epstein case.

586
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 1: According to the top cop of this country, Pamela Bondi,

587
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: that's happening right now. I will believe it when I

588
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: see it, because this dates back all the way to

589
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: a secret deal by the prosecutor down and Palm Beach

590
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: where Epstein got basically a camp. He could leave whenever

591
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: he wanted to, with a valet, a driver, and nobody

592
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: said a word. After one mom comes forward and says,

593
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: he raped my little girl, and we still don't have justice.

594
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: Has everybody forgotten what happened? Because I haven't, you know,

595
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: let me jog the federal government's memory. Listen.

596
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 16: Sometimes he would just get in front of them and

597
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 16: rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.

598
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 16: Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him. It kind

599
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 16: of worked like a pyramid scheme. Geland brought me in,

600
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 16: I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.

601
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: That's where my friends at Miami Harold and you were

602
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: seeing Virginia Roberts Jeffrey speaking about what happened to her.

603
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: Would you she was a little girl, a little girl

604
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: about age fourteen. Yeah, rubbing his nipples in front of

605
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: a little girl, and we find out just who the

606
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: victim is.

607
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 16: I had been a runaway and I had been abused before.

608
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: So to have this ability to get educated.

609
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 17: And do something with my life.

610
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: I thought I was turning around. That from our friends

611
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: at Miami Harold, but that turning point turned into this

612
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: she is instructed to just robe as Maxwell and Epstein

613
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: are both naked. She describes maxwellen Epstein touching her and

614
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: that she went along with it. Virginia says, I let

615
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: them abuse me, and I did what they told me

616
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: to do. Doctor Bethy Marshall, she's an adult now, but

617
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: it still sounds to me like she's blaming herself. I

618
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: let them abuse me. That's not the dynamic.

619
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 12: No, no, no, no, it was a poweredential. It was

620
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 12: two on one.

621
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 5: She was just a little girl.

622
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: You know, children notoriously they don't.

623
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 12: Know when they're abused if the act is coming from

624
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 12: themselves or from the other person. So this confusion is

625
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 12: persisting into adult life. Victims don't just recover miraculously. They

626
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 12: blame themselves throughout the lifespan. They are subject to disturbed

627
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 12: relationship patterns, sometimes drug abuse, PTSD flashbacks.

628
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 11: So you know the fact that she's.

629
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 12: Coming forward amidst all these symptoms that are persisting for

630
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 12: her is pretty remarkable, you.

631
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: Know, Notton Bethany when you mentioned flashbacks. A lot of

632
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: people don't believe in suppress memories. They're real, And I'll

633
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: give you an example. One of my best friends within

634
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office. Just a brilliant, brilliant legal mind.

635
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: I had known her for three or four years. She

636
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: started having flashbacks being molested by family member. It destroyed

637
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: her man. She ended up getting a divorce the child.

638
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: They had a child that was in shuttle back and

639
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: forth between the parents, and her life was turned upside

640
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: down when she remembered the molestation. And even now you

641
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: hear JR. Fraid talking about I let them molest me,

642
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: as if somehow it was her fault. Okay, So you've

643
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: got a secret deal with the cost to down a

644
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: palm beach. Then you've got bar saying we will see justice.

645
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: Well that never happened. Now you've got Bondie saying we're

646
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: releasing the files. Well when when will there be justice?

647
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just very curious to doctor Kimberly Melman

648
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: Erosco executive director of Freedom Like Human Trafficking expert witness,

649
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: author of Hidden in Plane Sight, America Slaves of the

650
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: New Millennium. Do you recall the case that you analyzed

651
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: of Spider aka doctor James Joseph.

652
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 11: So James Joseph was on America's Most Wanted investigation Discovery brutally,

653
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 11: brutally trafficked multiple women. He also got a sweetheart deal

654
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 11: the first time he was prosecuted. I think he got

655
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 11: eighteen months despite violently violently trafficking women. It wasn't until

656
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 11: years later, as he continued to commit his crimes where

657
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 11: he was prosecuted in California. I served as an expert

658
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 11: witness both to the grand journey for his indictment and

659
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 11: at trial where he was sentenced to life in prison.

660
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 11: So when they talk about this sweet sweetheart deal for Epstein,

661
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 11: it wasn't really out of the norm for that time. Unfortunately, unfortunately,

662
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 11: there are numerous alleged traffickers and persons committing crimes against

663
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 11: children who are getting away with slap on the hand

664
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 11: sentences because it's being perceived as difficult to prosecute.

665
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: And one key point here, Nancy.

666
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 11: Is that Epstein was a typical of a trafficker. He

667
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 11: was paying his victims, typically in trafficking situations. You have

668
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 11: talked about in your show numerous times following the money,

669
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 11: and I agree with that wholeheartedly, especially in trafficking situations.

670
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 11: Most of the time, for trafficking, the money is flowing

671
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 11: from the victim to the trafficker.

672
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: It was the complete.

673
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 11: Opposite in this situation, and therefore it might have been

674
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 11: perceived as difficult to prosecute. The thing that is extremely

675
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 11: important here, though, was the concealing this from the alleged victims,

676
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 11: concealing this from the girls that he did abuse in

677
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 11: waiting until afterwards. I think that is the key problem here.

678
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: Unless Bondi comes through on this, this will be another

679
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 1: case of the rich and powerful prevailing on those weaker,

680
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: less cunning than they are, specifically these girls that were

681
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: raped and sex trafficked by Epstein and as wealthy and

682
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: influential friends. When will the documents be released? You real

683
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: think they're sitting on them to protect the victims, because

684
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: I don't. This goes so far back. In fact, I

685
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: remember when renowned attorney David Boyce, who is Virginia Geffray's lawyer,

686
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: spoke out.

687
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 22: It doesn't matter how many contacts you have, doesn't matter

688
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 22: who your family is, doesn't matter how much wealth do

689
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 22: you have. You're not a buffalow.

690
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: That's where our friends at ITV News. That was David

691
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: boys when you represented Virginia Geffrey. He says, it doesn't

692
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: matter how rich you are. How powerful you are, but

693
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: apparently it may.

694
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: Despite a long awaited document release, many files remain secret

695
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: and Jeffrey Epstein's contentious sex trafficking scandal.

696
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: Why why why are the files secret? Trump promised the

697
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: files would be released, but they haven't been. Why why

698
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: Bondie now listen to Presidential Counselor Alina Haba with our

699
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: friend Piers Morgan.

700
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 23: I don't see how it's not shocking that there were

701
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 23: so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and

702
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 23: not been held accountable.

703
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but I'm not shocked because this

704
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: has been going on since the get go with Epstein.

705
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: That's from our friend Piers Morgan Uncensored and more from Haba.

706
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 23: You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists accountable.

707
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: We have to have them tried. In my opinion, yes, okay,

708
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: of course they have to be tried, but the files

709
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: have to be released first so we can determine who,

710
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: if anyone, is going to be tried. And we're not

711
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: getting out of Epstein because he either committed suicide or

712
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: was killed at MDC. That from our friend at Piers Morgan.

713
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: Piers Morgan Uncensored and Bondie the new US Attorney General

714
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: speaks out, You're.

715
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: Looking at these documents, going, these aren't all the Epstein files.

716
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: You know, there were flight logs, there were names and victims' names,

717
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: and we're going, where's the rest of the.

718
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: Stuff, BONDI with our friends over at Fox and you

719
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: speaking out, Yeah, where is the rest of the stuff? Well,

720
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: apparently sitting in boxes at the Southern District of New

721
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: York's US Attorney's office. That's a mystery right there. But

722
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: it goes on and on and on, seemingly a never

723
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: ending quest to keep these names secret. Sidney Summer joining

724
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: me crime online dot com, Sydney. What are the files?

725
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: What do we think is in the files that have

726
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: been so carefully hidden from US fancy.

727
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 9: We've seen flight logs, a contact list, a new evidence list,

728
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 9: and what prosecutors are calling a masseuse list that contained

729
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 9: two hundred and fifty four named victims. But what we

730
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 9: expect to see.

731
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 8: Is a client list.

732
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 11: That's what everybody wants to know.

733
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 8: We have his contacts, but this is just somebody's phone contacts.

734
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 8: It doesn't necessarily incriminate any of the people that are

735
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 8: named in that contact list. What we do want is

736
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 8: the client list people who actively participated in the sex

737
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 8: trafficking ring, knowing that the women there providing massages were underage.

738
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: It is known that on Epstein's private plane, he would

739
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: ferry underage girls, along with high profile US citizens and others,

740
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: to his private island for what to play a game

741
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: with checkers. No, that's not why. Speaking of this so

742
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: called client list listen well.

743
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 14: Many were expecting Epstein's client list, hoping it would contain

744
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 14: bombshell implications. The majority of the roughly two hundred page

745
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 14: document dump is made up of previously disseminated information, like

746
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 14: Epstein's contact list.

747
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 24: Among famous names in Epstein's contact lists are rockers McJagger

748
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 24: and Courtney Love, Michael Jackson, actors Alec Baldwin, Dust Hoffman

749
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 24: and Ralph Fiennis, and supermodels Naomi Campbell and Liz Hurley.

750
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 24: Others include Harvey Weinstein's brother Bob Weinstein, David Coach, Alan Dershowitz,

751
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 24: and both Evanna and Evanka Trump. Several political figures are

752
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 24: also named, former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, John Kerry,

753
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 24: John Huntsman, Senator Ted Kennedy, his sister in law Ethel Kennedy,

754
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 24: and her daughter Carrie Kennedy.

755
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: Okay, I doubt Ethel Kennedy or Carrie Kennedy were involved

756
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: in child sex trafficking. I doubt that Alan Dershowitz, my colleague,

757
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: is involved in sex trafficking. Maybe none of these people.

758
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: But isn't it true, Doctor Bethany Marshall, People like Epstein

759
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: insinuated himself into circles of power and privilege. That does

760
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: not mean everybody on his client list has done anything wrong.

761
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean, do you I really think Carrie Kennedy and

762
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: Ethel Kennedy had anything to do with this? Hell no,

763
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: but no. In all of these documents, you know, there's

764
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: probative evidence, So I'm not surprised that these rich and

765
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 1: powerful people are in his list.

766
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 12: But you know, Nancy, from another perspective, we know that

767
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 12: pedophiles congregate together, they congregate online, they disseminate photos, they

768
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 12: exchange information. So I don't understand why law enforcement would

769
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 12: go online to track pedophiles through their contact lists. But

770
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 12: Jeffrey Epstein's contact list is exempt from the public.

771
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense.

772
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 12: I may I agree with you that Ethel Kennedy and

773
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 12: some of these people obviously did not know what was

774
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 12: going on. But there are many wolves among the sheep,

775
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 12: and if you do not expose this contact list, then

776
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 12: we don't know who those people are. And I just

777
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 12: want to say, all those smiley photos of Epstein and

778
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 12: Gilan Maxwell, they're not smiling because they're a couple. They're

779
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 12: smiling because they're recruiting people with money and all the

780
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 12: resources are flowing up and they're in there with all

781
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 12: these high net worth individuals and that is making them

782
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 12: so so so.

783
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 1: Happy, you know. To Angie Lewis joining US partner Sirce

784
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: law from in Palm Beach, excellent trial lawyer, former felony

785
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: prosecutor in Palm Beach. There were grand jury tapes that

786
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 1: have just recently been revealed, grand jury tapes that the

787
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: evidence was heard in front of the grand jury that

788
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: were recorded as is customary. Are you surprised, based on

789
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: what you've learned from those grand jury tapes that these

790
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: documents today, these years later, are being kept secret.

791
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 6: The victims who testified were asked a series of questions

792
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 6: about being essentially being prostitutes and really almost in an

793
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 6: accusatory manner, almost incriminating them in terms of some criminal

794
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 6: activity and so what cave of that, of course, and

795
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 6: what everyone has seen in these transcripts was that the

796
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 6: prosecutors knew, the police knew even back then what Epstein

797
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 6: was up to and how terrible what he was involved in.

798
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 17: Yet we know what ended up happening.

799
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 6: So no, I mean, at this point, obviously that should

800
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 6: be a clear indicator that further investigation is warranted and

801
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 6: that there are other people out there who need to

802
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 6: be imprisoned.

803
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: And of course what she just said, what angel Lewis

804
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: just said, is critical because when you force a little

805
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: girl to be a prostitute, when Epstein Angeline Maxwell forced

806
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: them to be prostitutes, there had to be a john.

807
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: There had to be a John.

808
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 4: Who are the Johns?

809
00:52:53,680 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: Why aren't the files being released? Crime Stories? With Nancy

810
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: Grace Speaking of Jeffrey Epstein, his name has been thrown

811
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 1: around quite a bit lately in the Shawn Combs trial

812
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 1: because Shawn Comb's chief of staff, Christina Korum, never testified

813
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: at trial, and she was widely compared to Jeffrey Epstein's

814
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: chief hitch person, Julane Maxwell.

815
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: Epstein's over the top seventy seven million dollar Manhattan mansion

816
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: has eight stories nineteen thousand square feet, forty rooms, and

817
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: a heated sidewalk. When the FBI raided the home, they

818
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: found a lead lined panic room beneath the stairs and

819
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 2: a life sized female doll hanging from a chandelier. Inside

820
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 2: a hidden safe, agent's found seventy thousand dollars in cash,

821
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 2: forty eight loose diamonds, another jewelry, a bit of hard drives,

822
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: and a passport from a foreign country with a picture

823
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: of Epstein under another name. There were binders upon binders

824
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: of CDs filled with loot photos of young girls.

825
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 4: The Department of Justice releases phase one of declassified Epstein

826
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 4: files as more documents are expected.

827
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: According to the top cop in this country, Pam Bondi

828
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,720
Speaker 1: and her counselor Alena Habbaugh, counselor to the President, their quote,

829
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 1: absolutely will be prosecutions question. When all the documents haven't

830
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: been released, they've been in storage. That's a nice way

831
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: to put it. In the Southern District of New York

832
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: US Attorney's Office, now I want you to hear from

833
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: the horse's mouth, the US Attorney General, Pamel Bondi.

834
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 3: Director Patel is going to get us a detailed report

835
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 3: as to why the FBI withheld all of those documents.

836
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: That's why our friend's over at Fox News and I

837
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: can't wait. Do you think that detailed explanation about why

838
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: the documents were withheld will ever see the light day?

839
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: You know what, I don't care why. I just want

840
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: to know that justice is being pursued. Let's get back

841
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: to the fact that we're missing one main witness, and

842
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: that would be Jeffrey Epstein. Why why is he dead?

843
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: Doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former associate warden at m d C, author,

844
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: who are you see it? Say it? Seize it now?

845
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: President of a new Daylight Foundation. You know, many experts,

846
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,439
Speaker 1: not just me, question whether it was a suicide. Why

847
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: did that happen? Doctor Hendrix?

848
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 21: Based on the factors of what we what we know,

849
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 21: it was a colossal failure unfortunately by the agency that

850
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 21: I worked for for a number of years, with the staff,

851
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 21: you know, not tending to counting and being accountable for mister.

852
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: Uh okay speak English, Speak English, who did what?

853
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 21: Apparently he committed suicide and it was over three hours

854
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 21: before they actually went and checked the cell. They're supposed

855
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 21: to do thirty minute round.

856
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: Parent committed suicide, you know, Doctor Dwayne Hendrix. I really

857
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: respect you, but aren't you just a little embarrassed right now?

858
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: Apparently he committed suicide like we don't really know, Pays.

859
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: The guards that were supposed to watch him every thirty

860
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: minutes were shopping online and.

861
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 21: Asleep, yes, and they should have treated him like they

862
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 21: eventually treated Dulane Maxwell when she was at the NBC,

863
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 21: not MCC And they should have had staff sitting in

864
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 21: front of his cell monitoring his all of his actions

865
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 21: and his behaviors. When I was a correction officer back

866
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 21: in the late nineties, you know, had the I was.

867
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 21: I was with tech Zinski there at FDC Dublin, and

868
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 21: they put too they put cameras in his cell, and

869
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 21: they probably should have did that with Epstein. The other

870
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 21: failure out in mind.

871
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: Now Again, I deply respect you and what you're doing now,

872
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: but could it would have should have? Ain't helping me tonight.

873
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out was he murdered or did

874
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: he commit suicide? Because a lot of renowned experts, not

875
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: lawyers like myself, but medical examiners say he did not

876
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: commit suicide, which leads me to concerns about Julaine Maxwell.

877
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: The only other potential witness in this case. Oh, here

878
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: we have the Attorney General, William Barr, weighing in.

879
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 25: I was appalled, and indeed the whole department was and

880
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 25: frankly angry to learn of the MCC's failure to adequately

881
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 25: secure this prisoner.

882
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: Appalled, shocked, angry. That's where our friends at CBS. But

883
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: yet the main witness against potential co defendants in those

884
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: files is now dead. Darn what a coinkydink the way

885
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: that worked out? Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned chief

886
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: medical examiner Terran County. That's fort Worth. He is esteemed

887
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Launching

888
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: a new podcast, Doctor Kendall crowns. I know there is

889
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: evidence supporting both sides of this, but what tends to

890
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: suggest this was not a suicide.

891
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 7: So there's a couple of problems with it. The injuries

892
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 7: he has the next structures, the thyroid cartilage which is

893
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 7: right about here, and the hyoid bone which is about here.

894
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 7: He has fractures, two fractures on the thyroid cartilage, one

895
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 7: in the highoid bone, and it's odd for him to

896
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 7: have so many fractures with just a simple hanging. Usually

897
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 7: with a simple hanging, the ligature kind of pulls up

898
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 7: on the neck, compresses the structure and causes them to die,

899
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 7: especially with a large sheep type hanging. And what we're

900
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 7: seeing is with these fractures is he potentially has got

901
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 7: this ligature wrapped around his neck, pulling back and causing

902
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 7: these fractures, and then if he moves, it can cause

903
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 7: another fracture. So it's odd that he has these two fractures.

904
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 7: And then you throw in the fact that he has

905
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 7: contusions on his wrists. Was he restrained? You have a

906
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 7: couple of a couple of findings that make it very

907
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 7: strange that it could be a suicide, but it also

908
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 7: could be a homicide. And it's just not very clear.

909
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: When you say there were factors that were strange, I

910
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: could not agree more. But what are to what are

911
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: you referring.

912
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 7: The contusions on the wrists. I don't feel that there

913
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 7: are the bruises on the wrists. I don't feel they're

914
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 7: being very clear about what those look like or how

915
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 7: they are. Because his hands could have been tied together

916
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 7: with another restraint or another piece of sheet.

917
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: Hey dirigental crowns we're looking at the scene right there,

918
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: and the only way he could have committed suicide is

919
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: to tie the binding that he created to the bunk man.

920
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: He obviously didn't have any platf from high enough for

921
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: a traditional hanging, he would have to have tie that

922
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: and they just leaned forward and let the pressure asphyxiate him.

923
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: How likely is that correct?

924
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 7: I mean, that's a type of the way it is.

925
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 7: He can't suspend himself or anything of that nature. He's

926
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 7: going to have to lean into it, and again that's

927
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,479
Speaker 7: going to be a slow kind of pressure on his neck.

928
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 7: So these fractures that we have are very, very odd

929
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 7: that he has so many fractures.

930
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: From just dolector Kendall crowns. They don't fit, do they

931
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 1: with suicide?

932
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 7: It is odd. It doesn't really fit. So I'd have

933
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 7: to have more explanation, more information to even make a

934
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 7: decision on that.

935
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat, but

936
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: I beg you Trump, do not pardon Julane Maxwell. Don't

937
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: do it. Huge miscarriage of justice. Joining me now, special

938
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: guest Bill Daily, former FBI investigator, security expert Bill Daily.

939
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: You know the ins and outs of the fares like

940
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: the back of your hand. What is happening? When can

941
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: we get the names in these documents?

942
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 26: Well, Nancy, certainly, there's been basically a truckload of documents

943
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 26: now brought down to the Attorney General's office and they're

944
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 26: going through them. There will be some time to kind

945
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 26: of pull this all together because they're going to be

946
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 26: various investigative elements. There's going to be interviews, there's going

947
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 26: to be injury statements. There's going to be other information

948
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 26: out there, whether it's hard drives, whether it's videos, whatever.

949
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 26: Documentation also was found, whether in one of the homes

950
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 26: or the homes. So it's going to take a while

951
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 26: to pull it together.

952
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 14: You know.

953
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 26: One of the things that always has troubled me about

954
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 26: this case many things. Certainly it was the circumstances around

955
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 26: mister Epstein's death in the correctional facility in Lower Manhattan,

956
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 26: but it was also around other people who either material

957
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 26: witnesses or those people who ate it and bedded. There

958
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 26: are many people who are involved in this case where

959
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 26: it happens to be people who attending at the Epstein homes,

960
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 26: whether it's pilots or crew on the aircraft who both

961
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 26: probably knew or were aware of what was happening, saw

962
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 26: these young women being brought on, saw some of the perpetrators,

963
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 26: some of the victimizers also being transported around those people

964
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 26: who am not too sure why we never heard either

965
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 26: statements about them or whether they themselves were complicit in

966
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 26: some ways if not given a pardon.

967
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: Bill Daly, former FBI investigator, Phensic photography expert, security expert.

968
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: Do you ever just get sick to your stomach to

969
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: see how wealthy and powerful people are protected they never

970
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: face justice.

971
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 26: Nancy, and I think the American people also feel the

972
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 26: same way. The new administration is run in transparency. The

973
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 26: new FBI director has come forth saying he would be

974
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 26: very transparent, so has the Attorney General.

975
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: I believe them. I want that to happen.

976
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 26: I want the top of the American people because so

977
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 26: many of us have seen some of these cases go

978
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 26: and come, and we say, why is it always just

979
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 26: the kind of the regular folks that you find yourselves

980
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 26: being put in jail, and it's the other people who's

981
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 26: very obviously have committed some of these these acts, are

982
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 26: certainly never held their feet to the fire from a

983
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 26: prosecution standpoint. So in this case, I really hope that

984
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 26: this will result in some of these victims, these people

985
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 26: with victimize that there be some justice for them. At

986
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 26: the same time, I also am concerned about missus Maxwell

987
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 26: and our safety because as more of this comes about,

988
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,919
Speaker 26: as more information comes to light, is that her life

989
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 26: could be at risk, whether in or outside the confines

990
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 26: of a penitentiary.

991
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad you brought that up Bill Daily

992
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: to doctor Dwayne Hendricks, former Associate warden MDC Dodger Hendricks.

993
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: Right now, Daine Maxwell is in the FCI formal Florida

994
01:03:54,160 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: Correctional Institute in Tallahassee, and it is low security. If

995
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: someone can murder Epstein and high security, what about low security,

996
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: doctor Hendrix, Well, one.

997
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 21: Thing, anybody can be killed anywhere, whether it's in the

998
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 21: correctional facility, whether it's maximum or minimum or anywhere. But

999
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 21: I will say if there were any threats, So if

1000
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 21: there were any credible threats to her life. You know,

1001
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 21: the agency does have an excellent intel office. They do

1002
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 21: a lot of work with other agencies to include the FBI.

1003
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 21: The staff are members of the Joint Task for Wait

1004
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 21: a minute, Wait a.

1005
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: Minute, Henri. Did you just hear doctor Kimberly melmont or

1006
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: Rossco state that Epstein was in fear for his life

1007
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: at the time he died. So who is going Nobody

1008
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: protected him? Who is going to protect Jawayne Maxwell.

1009
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 21: It'll be the same people, different staff, It'll be the

1010
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 21: same agency and staff and other law enforcement personnelit if

1011
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 21: there's any credible threats, they will place her in special

1012
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 21: housing and if they would need to move her to

1013
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 21: a different facility, they would do so at that time.

1014
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 21: But again, anyone could be touched at any time, unfortunately,

1015
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 21: and if she feels she's in fear of her life,

1016
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 21: she needs to at any time, she needs to report

1017
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 21: that to staff, and she needs to check try to

1018
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 21: get herself checked into special housing or remove from that facility.

1019
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 21: And that's just how that works.

1020
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 1: The last one heard of is Layne Maxwell. She was

1021
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: finding about her Thanksgiving dinner. What about it Sydney summer? Yeah, Nancy.

1022
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 8: So Maxwell is apparently claiming that she has limited funds

1023
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 8: and her commissary is empty, meaning she went hungry on

1024
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 8: Thanksgiving Day.

1025
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: I find that very hard to believe. It may not

1026
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: be a private chef like she's used to with Epstein,

1027
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: but I find it very difficult to believe that the

1028
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: inmates wouldn't get fed at the FCI.

1029
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 17: You know what, maybe.

1030
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: She'd like a little bump up to a better jail

1031
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: in exchange for her testimony. Think about it, Maxwell. We

1032
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.