WEBVTT - Mel Brooks 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.840 Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.400 adamized Studios. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.720 Mel Brooks makes the world laugh. Watch the producers blazing 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.520 saddles Young Frankenstein. Listen to the two thousand year old Man, 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.480 or read his autobiography All About Me, and you are 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.000 guaranteed to find yourself laughing out loud until it hurts. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.920 But for me, having known Mel for twenty five years, 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.000 funny is not the first word I would use to 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:40.040 describe this amazing man. Hungry, hungryly, proud. Do you think 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.840 that's your adjective? You get hungry with you. I get 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:48.720 hungry when I see you. We love you there, fiercely, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.120 proud of his children and his grandchildren, the first one 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.400 to pick up a phone to a friend in trouble, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.200 refusing an award in opposition to the Iraq War and 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.880 waiting to accept it from President Obama. Vulnerable after the 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.200 loss of people he loved. To Mel, food and wine 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.440 are crucial. Many of his life's happenings have occurred in restaurants, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.000 and as for wine, he will tell you himself. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.279 Spill it all over the table. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.080 I'm trying to take this seriously today. It is home. 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.880 We are together, lucky me. We're going to talk about 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.920 wine and family and friends and be prepared to laugh 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:36.000 because mel Brooks is funny. So that was a serious introduction. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.640 I want to tell you what do you want to 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:42.959 tell me. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:48.559 That before we stopped talking, Before I forget, I would 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:53.640 like to do my imitation of a cat, because not 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.960 a lot of people know that I do it. I 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.120 make ther best cats sound in the world. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.480 I just I just need one second to really get 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:05.280 myself into this. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.120 Okay, here's my work doing the sound of a cat. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:13.320 Wo that is that is a perfect sound. It's hard 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.320 to do, hard to do. I do it in young Frankenstein. 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.839 I think it's it's a dart throwing contest and one 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.520 of the dogs hits a cat and you hear you. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.840 Know, did you do the sound? I get there every night? 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:28.440 Can you do it again? 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:29.720 Wow? 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:31.560 That's good? So what's the technique? 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.880 Technique is to is to squash some air between your 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.440 cheek and the front of your mouth. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.359 As we're talking about cats and fish, maybe about fish. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.239 You know cats like to eat fish. We could actually 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:51.040 read the recipe. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.840 Oh yeah, my favorite of all the of all of 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.760 all the things in the book. There's a good picture 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:03.480 of it too in your cookbook River Cafe, London. 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.720 Thirty because that was done for our thirty. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.920 Three threeh thirty years. Wow. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:11.600 Do you remember you came to the party? 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:13.720 I did? Oh agreed? 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.760 You and Richard sat there the whole night in the 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.280 oh yeah, in the restaurant, and everybody just came to 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.000 your table. Everyone, everybody wanted to see. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.519 It wasn't as important as the food on my plate. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:24.800 A lot of food. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.280 Paid attention to all he eats, All he eats are supreme. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.239 Let me run the rest of Okay dover soul with Marjoram. 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.280 I don't know what Marjoram is, but I love it. Okay, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.680 whatever it is, whatever it is, one bunch of fresh 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:49.440 margarine leaves, one whole dover soul, weighing twelve to fourteen ounces, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:55.280 three fifty to four hundred grams, scaled and cleaned. Of course, 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.840 of course I'm not gonna eat it with the scales on, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.720 never and with the stuff inside. No sense. One lemon 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:06.120 cut in half. I have lemons, Mayer lemons for my 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.480 Mayer lemon tree just outside here, and they are golden 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.880 yellow and running with lemon juice. That is superior to 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.760 anything in the world. So if I have a dover sole, 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:21.640 I'll bring my lemons. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.280 Okay, well, we get armored lemons from Amalfi, so they're 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:24.960 pretty good too. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.320 Okay, here we go. Pre eat the oven to four 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:33.160 hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. That's pretty hot. That's pretty hard. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:39.160 Brush a large flat baking sheet with extra virgin olive oil. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.200 Scatter half the modorum leaves over the sheet along with 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.279 some sea salt and black pepper. Place the fish on top, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.440 season with sea salt and black pepper. Then scatter the 0:04:53.560 --> 0:05:02.320 remaining marjoram drizzle. Drizzle generously with olive oil. Okay, that 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.400 sounds great. Bake for fifteen to twenty minutes. Tests with 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.159 the point of a sharp knife and certing into the 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:12.279 central of the thickest part of the soul. Ah. If cooked, 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:18.160 the flesh should come away from the bone. Okay. Squeeze 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.679 the lemon, either from a malfy or from mel Brooks's 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:26.400 lemon tree, over the fish, and serve with any juices 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.839 from the pans that are left. I like that. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.120 Let's begin at the beginning earliest food memories. What do 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.160 you remember from you know, your early days. Did your 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:37.760 mother cook? 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.159 Yeah, my mother, okay, it was It was a standard Williamsburg, 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:50.000 Brooklyn Jewish tenement food. So breakfast in the winter was 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:55.200 always a hot cereal, cream of wheat or Ralston which 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.400 was a kind of Baridge brown borridge, and then in 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.040 the summer corn flakes, rice krispies or wheaties. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.120 What year would that have been? How old would you? 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.799 I would that would be thirty five, I'd be around nine. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.839 That's when I went my uncle Joe, shortest jew on earth. 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:20.280 Short he was about four to four when when a taxi, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.000 a big checker taxi cab rolled down the streets of 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.200 Brooklyn and there was no driver. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.480 That was there was no driver. It was so short 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.880 it get just about peer over the you know. Anyway, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.720 Joe took me because his friend Al was the doorman 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.440 of the Alvin Theater on fifty second Street, and running 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.680 at that same theater was Cold Porters Anything Goes. I 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.480 had never seen a Broadway show. I was nine years 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:57.799 old and Uncle Joe took me to see Anything Goes. 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.160 I was stunned. I was. I couldn't believe it. Even 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.159 though we were in the second balcony was far away 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.560 from the stage as you can get ethel Merman was 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.240 too loud, No MIC's she was just she. 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.040 Was anything goes. Did she say the mother? Yeah, yeah, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.200 the woman. It's on a ship, isn't it. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.680 And it's on a ship? Very good? Yeah. And Victim 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.880 Moore was the gangster of the gangs. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:25.120 Yeah. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.280 Yeah. It was so good. At the end, I nearly 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.960 clapped my hands over. I just couldn't stop clapping and 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.200 screaming and shouting. And then I got back an Uncle 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.320 Joe's camp. I said to him, Uncle John, I'm not 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.960 going in the garment center. Everybody at three sixty five 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:48.280 South third Street, between on Hooper and Use three sixty 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.240 five South third Street, everybody in that building worked in 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:57.360 the garment center. They were shipping clerks, they were cutters, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:02.000 they were designers, there were salesman and they everybody I 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.920 think on the street, the sixty one, three sixty three 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.880 through sixty five, these tenements, everybody in the garments set. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.480 And I screamed at my uncle Joe, Uncle Joe, I'm 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.280 not I'm not going into the garments that I'm not. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.960 I'm gonna go into the show business. I loved it. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.800 I loved it, you know, and it changed, but it 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.320 did and I did. And because he take you. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.960 To food, what do you take you out to eat? 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.160 I always went to the theater as a kid, and 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.240 then there was the meal afterwards, lunch before it was 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:34.719 a day out. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.679 We had some favorites that Uncle Joe would take us to, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:44.160 where one was called Gallagher Steakhouse. They had like half 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.360 a cow in the window. I always had these half 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:51.120 cows in the window, you know, hanging gallaghers. Yeah, and 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.320 the and the steak was incredible. And sometimes you go 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.760 to Jack Dempsey's restaurant. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:57.960 And what was that? 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.800 And that was great, but you know, it was it 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.600 was all meat. It was. There never any fish in 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.520 a restaurant. Yeah, And I never liked fish. I don't 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.920 think I ever liked fish until I was seventy or 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.520 eighty and I went to the River Cafe. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.920 And so really you never ate fish. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:15.559 I hardly ever ate fish as. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.480 But it's interesting to me that you you describe a 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.800 kind of modest home life in terms of doing your food, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.520 but you went out to restaurants. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:32.920 So a lot of Jewish restaurants were called dairy restaurants, 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.440 and they serve stuff like blinches with sour cream and 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.120 old dairy. 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.640 You never mixed meat and dairy with something some religious nonsense. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.360 Did your grandmother cook for you? 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:45.240 My grandmother cook? 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.120 What did she cook? Olsh grandmother? Your mother's mother's mother. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.160 I never knew, you never knew your father's. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.600 No, no, my father's grandmother, I didn't know. She did 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.120 say to her meals best over meals in Bensonhurst where 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.280 they lived in a big one family had. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:00.960 Did they come their first generation? 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.640 Yeah, no, they were. They were European. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.440 Yeah, and so do you think your grandparents brought their 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:09.920 food with them the food. 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:15.480 Yeah, culture they cooked the same stuff. Mostly it was chicken, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:17.320 chicken and chicken soup. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.520 And uh briscuit. 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:24.319 Yeah, they made brisket. Absolutely, they made brisket and brown potatoes. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.360 Do you know my grandparents came? They were They came 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.720 from Hungary and Russia. And my father remembers my grandmother 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.160 having in the Lower East Side a carp swimming in 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.040 the bathtub that they would make it filter fish out of. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.199 So do you imagine having a look, they would bring 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:42.600 it a live fish. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:43.319 Live fish. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.559 We would get a live fish. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.720 My brother Bernie and I were usually one week we 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.480 loved and we called them alreaty and we fed them 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.200 bread crumbs and we chased them around the bathtub. And 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.440 then it was unspeakable. I can't even describe it. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:01.080 Killing Irving. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.400 My older oldest brothers Irving and Lenny held us back. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.880 We were screaming, don't kill him. And my mother would 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.760 say we got to eat, we gotta eat supper, and 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.080 she'd kill audience, serve him, it was and we would 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.560 cry and but we ate. 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.840 Him and then would you get another carp and kill that? 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.480 We got another carp It's so interesting that they had 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.120 live fish swimming in the back in the Yeah, they did. 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:27.400 It's amazing that you had to say. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.160 My brother Michael, who you know, just wrote I have 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.319 found that something my father had written about his memories 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.320 of food and just living in the Lower east Side. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:38.760 But you weren't in the Lower east Side. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.000 The Lower east Side, an extension of the Lower east 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.000 Side was Williamsburg. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.600 That was probably one step up, was it. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.200 Well, it was one step up if you put it 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.600 next to a section of Brooklyn called Bronzeville, East New York. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.200 And that was really where they had coal stoves. They 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.400 didn't even have gas. Yeah, and we had electricity and 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.079 we had guess so we were one step of Brownsbilt 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:10.199 equal to the lower east Side. And let me tell 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.760 you that my mother used to make every once in 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.000 a while on a Sunday night, she would make spaghetti. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.640 She would buy a box of Muller's noodles. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.880 They were flat, flat noodles. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.720 And she cooked them until they were dead. 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:29.520 They'd be really soft. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.440 Oh, they were really soft. And then she put them 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.440 in a baking pan and she would empty a bottle 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.680 of Heinz ketchup over there, This is spaghetti. And then 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.720 she'd bake it for thirty or forty minutes until the 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.400 pan was dead, till everything was dead. And then she 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.680 cut them into squares and served it to us and 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:53.520 said spaghetti. And I was from eight years old to 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:58.800 about thirteen or fourteen. That was spaghetti and it was okay, Yeah, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:06.560 it was really okay. Then I had joined a club 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.280 called the Baltzer Bugs. We made model airplanes. I think 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.320 we enjoyed smelling the glue. Where do we like baking 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.480 the planes? But we may so. One of one of 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.280 the Baltzer Bugs, it was Bertie Steinberger, was Flappy Rothman, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.400 and there was Tony Galliani Italian an Italian, and Tony 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.280 said I'm going home. It was Sunday, and I said, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.240 he said, I'm going home to have spaghetti. I said, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.199 we have spaghetti on Sunday too. He said, well try, 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.000 you know, come on and have bar spaghetti. So I 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:41.800 went home. I walked into his apartment, which was in 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:42.680 green Point. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.000 A little on the. 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:48.520 Edge of Williamsburg. As I walked in, I was assaulted 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:57.600 by these incredible smells, just as the aromas of of garlic, 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.920 and I mean, it was just incredible. Then I sat down. 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:10.600 They served this warm, squiggly spaghetti, real spaghetti, squiggly but 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:20.920 not dead, fotback and sauces red thick, red, beautiful sauce 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.880 with meatballs in it, and sprinkled on top of it 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.080 was this white stuff snow. I think it was parmesan cheese. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.960 And I took I took one bite and I started 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:34.360 to cry. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:35.000 Did you cry? 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.880 I wept? I wept, and I said, Tony, this is 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.240 this is spaghetti. This is spaghetti. I was about fourteen, 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.520 and I just wept and I went When I came home, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.560 I said, Mom, you're not making spaghetti. I don't know 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.880 what stuff is that cardpoint, but it's not spaghetti. 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.080 You're starting to tell me about your her mother's food. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.800 What was her mother's food when you went to your grandmother's. 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.120 When we went to the sata was, I know they 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:10.080 made little dishes before to celebrate the Jews freedom from 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:16.520 slavery in Egypt, and had something with apples and stuff 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.440 that was supposed to mimic the mortar that the Jews 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.120 carried up to make sure these big stones stayed together. 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:28.600 And then some salt for the heart, for the suffering, 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.640 for the tears, and it was a lot of those 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.080 little things. And then she served this thing called the 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:40.120 filter fish with red horse rices. They called it crane, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:45.200 crane or grain, and it was just thrilling. I loved it. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:46.840 So you love food from food? 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.160 I tasted food. My mother wasn't making food. She was 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.200 she was making something at bathroom food. 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.200 So do you think your mother was not? 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.320 And the first time I had Chinese food? Where was 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.640 that Bluesburg? We never went to. My mother said we're 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.200 gonna go to a Chinese restaurant tonight, and each meal, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.479 the whole meal menu twenty five cents. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.040 And the Chinese restaurant. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:19.400 And the Chinese restaurant and you got you got eggs first, 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.480 then you got chowmine, Oh, chowmine, and then you got 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.160 a yellow ball with little pieces of ice in it, 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.000 a round ball that was the ice cream dessert, and 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.720 and then some fortune cookies with the paper and that, 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.080 you know, I hate the paper. I hate everything. Everything 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:52.920 was sweet. One of the most delicious things was very simple. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.800 We lived at five five stories up in this tentement, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.920 and I wasn't I wasn't gonna come up. They will 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.760 get that. I was not going to come up for lunch. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.840 I was not why because there was five stories and 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.720 I didn't want to leave the game. So we took 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.560 a break in the game and we all had lunch. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.920 They all brought bags and stuff with them. Sat on 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.320 the carve of my friends and my mother would throw 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:26.160 in it, throw down in a brown paper bag, kaiser 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:31.600 roll smeared with a lot of butter, fresh butter, and 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.480 almost a whole tomato sliced and salted and put that 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.040 and it was the most delicious thing. And I'd always 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:42.719 catch it. But one time I missed it. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.760 I was going to say five stories up as. 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.600 One time I missed it, and splata you heard the sound, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:55.600 and the bag was crammed with wet so I very 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.840 carefully peeled that what used to be the bag away 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.840 from the sandwich, and I began eating the sandwich, and 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.800 I once again cried. It was so great. It was 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.120 the closest thing to pizza. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.280 When did you have your first pizza? Oh? 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:13.320 I had my first pizza when I was I was 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:14.400 sixteen or seventeen. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.119 Yeah, So as a teenager, you lived at home and 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.679 then when did you leave? When you left home, did 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:20.840 you cook for yourself? 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:26.000 Well? I didn't leave home. Oh, okay, I was sent 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:31.119 to Virginia Military Institute the Army. There's a guy that 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.840 came to my high school. We were going to graduate. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.760 We were seventeen. We're going to be eighteen and graduated 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.760 from Eastern District High School. I claim to fame. Was 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.879 a red hour back was a great, incredible basketball coach 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:52.320 and world famous and he was on the team and 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:58.240 he was a genius. Anyway, I left because the guy said, 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.560 if you can pass a test, you'll be in the 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:07.480 Army Specialized Training Reserved program and it would stand you 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.040 in good stead because later when you were drafted or 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:17.960 taken into the regular Army you already had some background 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.320 in military and you could maybe choose your branch of 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.000 service and great, okay. So I took the test and 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.760 the test was not hard. It was how much is 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:30.560 doing too? I said, well, if you put them next 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.399 to each other, you got twenty two, you know. But 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.359 it was easy and they wanted you. So when I 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:43.640 was seventeen, they sent me to VMI Virginia Military Institute, 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:48.760 the West point of the South and go to restaurants 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.640 in Lexington, Virginia. And when the waitliss to take your order, 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.440 she answer back one thing. She'd say, you want grits 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.840 of that? And we said what she said? Do you 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:00.640 want grits with that? 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.080 Nor that? I just couldn't understand. 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:07.120 I couldn't understand. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:12.159 Later, it's kind of like polent. It's kind of like 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:14.800 you know, what was it like the food in the 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.959 military Awakening? 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.080 Yeah, can I can be very honest with you and 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:22.200 say some words. 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.600 That's this is a podcast. We can do it. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.160 Okay, it's a podcast. We can do it. I remember 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:31.240 the only thing the army had a I went into 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:35.760 the mess hall at four Dicks and I was shocked 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:40.679 by what I saw on a on a a great 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:46.280 big griddle, maybe maybe twelve feet by twelve. It was 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:51.119 just enormous. I saw a thousand eggs, sunny side up, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.760 and you pick, you'd say, give me to give me three, 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.600 give me four, and then that was that was eggs. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.720 And then there was like a a trash barrel clean 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.440 one of course, that had oatmeal in it. And then 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.480 there was It was just that kind of you know, 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:10.520 so it wasn't so bad. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.520 Were homesick? I was homesick, could be so homesick? How 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:14.400 old were you? 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:14.640 Oh? 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.520 Well I was. I was nearly old enough to be 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.600 in the regular army. So I was seventeen and a 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:20.640 half young to. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.280 Take you out of Brooklyn, to take you out of 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.080 your yeah, put you into place. 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.000 It was a strange place. But anyway, we're all together 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.400 and we we you know, we held onto each other. 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.520 Yeah. Did you take anything away from that experience? 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.760 Yeah? I did. They were they were unusually nice to us, 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.239 these cadets. Yeah, these Southern cadets. They had and they 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.000 taught us never to lie. Honor is the best thing, 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.879 you know. That stayed with you, and stay that stayed 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.960 with me. Hardly, I hardly ever lie, except in show business. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.240 You're forced to liar. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.400 Say something, to tell somebody there. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.800 To do that good. Ally, you look so great today, 0:21:58.880 --> 0:21:59.200 you know. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.679 That, I said. A friend of mine once interviewed Isaiah Berlin, 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.680 you know, the philosopher ya. He said, when you admire 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.040 somebody's work, do you just say I loved your work? 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:09.920 And they said, no, no, no, that's for the work 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.680 you didn't think so much of. If you really loved 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.280 their work, you I died, you know, I was on 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:17.639 the floor. You know, how do you how do you 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.960 give I love? Your work is for the people whose 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.600 work you didn't like it? You know, you say, that's fine? 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:24.720 Yeah? 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.320 But then what happened after. 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.840 The and any anyway? I went into the real army 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.400 and there I saw a thousand eggs Sonny Sun. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.520 That was in the real army. 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.320 Fourth that was Fourth Dicks, New Jersey. 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.119 What year would that have been, mel. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.520 I'll tell you exactly. June forty four. I was transferred 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.040 from v M I to four Dicks. I was in 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.680 the regular army. And then there was a thing that 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.840 was on the table. It was a big round bowl 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.600 with stuff in it, and it was I'm not at 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.920 the table. It was like where where the cooks were, 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.560 you know, and they had big spoons and they could 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.919 slop it. They could they put it on on some toast, 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.800 and you know, and I didn't. I never took a chance. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.280 But once I said, you know, I said, the guy's 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:18.760 next to me, ate it. So I took a chance 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.359 and I got it. And I said to them, what 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.959 is that? What is this we're eating? And they said, 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:30.240 shit on a shingle? I said, what shit on a shingle? 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.240 It turned out to be cream beef on toast, and 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.200 it wasn't so bad. But the Army, you know. 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:38.919 Did they send you abroad? Did you go? 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.280