WEBVTT - Paul Lieberstein

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I had some really dreadful scripts at Well, what was

0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.560
<v Speaker 1>your worst? I think I had wrote a Murphy Brown

0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:15.840
<v Speaker 1>where a terrorist came in. It's just so this so misguided.

0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.560
<v Speaker 2>By the way. I love that you said I think

0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.319
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a Murphy Brown. Yeah, I know, I wrote No,

0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.320
<v Speaker 2>damn well, you wrote a Murphy Brown.

0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.960
<v Speaker 1>No. The I think was that this might be my worst. Oh, okay,

0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:38.000
<v Speaker 1>because there's there's a lot of tuoth. Hi. My name

0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.160
<v Speaker 1>is Paul Lieberstein and I am Brian bob Gardner's mother.

0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Hi everybody, it's me Brian Bambgartner here, and you are

0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:56.480
<v Speaker 2>listening to another episode of Off the Beat today. You

0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.200
<v Speaker 2>just heard it. My mother is on the podcast. That's right,

0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:08.480
<v Speaker 2>our old friend, Paul Leeberstein, formerly known as Toby Flanderson. Well,

0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Paul didn't maybe he didn't give birth to me, but

0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.840
<v Speaker 2>in a way he was like a mother to me.

0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.840
<v Speaker 2>As the showrunner of the Office for several seasons, he

0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.160
<v Speaker 2>kept the wheels of the show turning. He's the one

0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.280
<v Speaker 2>that we went to with our problems, and he kept

0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:30.080
<v Speaker 2>our show safe, happy and well fed, just like a

0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.319
<v Speaker 2>mama bear. Today, I wanted to talk to Paul about

0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.560
<v Speaker 2>his life outside of the Office. He's not only a

0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:41.080
<v Speaker 2>loving mother, but he's a writer, actor, director, showrunner, producer,

0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:46.920
<v Speaker 2>not to mention, a trained economist and vibraphonist, as I

0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.960
<v Speaker 2>learned today in truth, Paul has helped redefine the genre

0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.640
<v Speaker 2>of the half hour sitcom with shows like Greg The Bunny,

0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.360
<v Speaker 2>The Drew Carey Show, The Bernie Max Show, Oh, King

0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.880
<v Speaker 2>of the Hill, not to mention, The Office, Newsroom, Ghosted,

0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:10.600
<v Speaker 2>and Space Force. Everything he touches turns to gold. Maybe

0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.160
<v Speaker 2>not gold, but it's innovative, it's smart, it's boundary pushing.

0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.240
<v Speaker 2>This is a person who really moves the needle of

0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.520
<v Speaker 2>television with everything he does. And right now he has

0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:25.800
<v Speaker 2>a brand new show on AMC, Lucky Hank with our

0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.320
<v Speaker 2>old friend Bob Odenkirk. It is every bit as excellent

0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.840
<v Speaker 2>and groundbreaking as well everything that Paul does. I highly

0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.680
<v Speaker 2>recommend it. But before that, please welcome my dear friend,

0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:50.400
<v Speaker 2>the soft spoken yet well mostly lovable Paul Lieberstein. Bubble

0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:51.040
<v Speaker 2>and Squeak.

0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.639
<v Speaker 1>I love it, Bubble and Squeakna.

0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Bubble and Squeaker cook it every month.

0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Left from the n.

0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Paul labors Sneardner. How's it going?

0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's going great. That's going here good, it's going

0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.639
<v Speaker 1>it's going good. Yeah, I had jumped into great about

0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:27.600
<v Speaker 1>really thinking that through.

0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, listen, I just saw you. Now I'm seeing you again.

0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.200
<v Speaker 2>This isn't this is incredible?

0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 1>This good stuff.

0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is like twice in a month we.

0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Had gaps without seeing each other. We Yeah, there have

0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.280
<v Speaker 1>been some significant guess it's been some big gaps lasting

0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:46.119
<v Speaker 1>a few years.

0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I know. Now have you been I'm going to ask

0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.440
<v Speaker 2>you some more about this later, but have you been

0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.240
<v Speaker 2>out with a picket sign? We are currently now on

0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.840
<v Speaker 2>day thirty two of the Writer's strike, the w GA strike.

0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Have you been carrying a sign?

0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.320
<v Speaker 1>I've carried a sign? Well, you know what. I walked

0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the pick a line. I don't care the sign.

0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.240
<v Speaker 2>You don't care the sign to heavy, I don't.

0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.280
<v Speaker 1>No one ever gave me a sign. I haven't asked

0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.400
<v Speaker 1>for one. It seems like it seems like everyone knows

0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:21.120
<v Speaker 1>what we're up to. But if if I if I

0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:21.880
<v Speaker 1>need to carry.

0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.679
<v Speaker 2>A sign, OK, you'll carry the sign.

0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.960
<v Speaker 1>I never said no, we're not doing that.

0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.400
<v Speaker 2>No, I know exactly. You don't check it. You don't

0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:29.919
<v Speaker 2>go to the table and check in, and you just

0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:30.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of.

0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.840
<v Speaker 1>A card at the table, you do, Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:43.880
<v Speaker 1>They just seem fine with me now wearing the shirt, and.

0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your story is so fascinating to me. I mean,

0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:52.839
<v Speaker 2>largely because of your family. So I want to I

0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.240
<v Speaker 2>want to rewind back in time. We're on the mean

0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:58.720
<v Speaker 2>streets of Connecticut.

0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, in the.

0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Late seventies, early eighties? What was what was what was

0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.480
<v Speaker 2>little Paul like? Back then? What did what did? What

0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:10.680
<v Speaker 2>did Paul like to do?

0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I was really into music music. Yeah, played in the orchestra,

0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.000
<v Speaker 1>played percussion in orchestras. For a while, I thought I

0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.440
<v Speaker 1>was going to root a professional drummer.

0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.239
<v Speaker 2>That's right. I forgot you were the drummer. I forgot.

0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.920
<v Speaker 1>You gave me tips, that's right.

0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.920
<v Speaker 2>So you my I wanted to be a professional baseball player.

0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.680
<v Speaker 2>You wanted to be a professional drummer.

0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Now I have to I have to hit pause on

0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.240
<v Speaker 2>this for one second and ask you because I don't

0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.880
<v Speaker 2>even know what this is. Because you said percussion to start,

0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.839
<v Speaker 2>and I thought you were being vague. My excellent researching

0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:58.000
<v Speaker 2>team has found out that you played the vibra phone. Yeah,

0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.920
<v Speaker 2>what is a what's a vibra phone? I literally don't

0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know what a vibraphone.

0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Is, Well, you're about to that is a vibraphone.

0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's like the.

0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Like a marimba. It's a big jazz instrument, largely metal

0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.400
<v Speaker 1>keys sustaining has a pedal there when you press it

0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.960
<v Speaker 1>down and it sustains. You play with a soft mallet.

0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and it's I love a soft mallet.

0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:31.479
<v Speaker 2>Well wait, so when you said percussion, but that was

0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.240
<v Speaker 2>drums as well. Yeah, you played things you could bang.

0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.919
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly. Yeah, I'll believe it at that.

0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.280
<v Speaker 2>So your first performing was.

0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Musically yeah, snare drum?

0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Were you good?

0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:52.279
<v Speaker 1>I was good, as as I was a little better

0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.120
<v Speaker 1>than you are at that one is at that age,

0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, But I don't think I was, you know,

0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:05.600
<v Speaker 1>amazing yet kind of quick. Before before I had this experience,

0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:10.120
<v Speaker 1>we were on vacation in Florida and kind of like

0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:14.160
<v Speaker 1>ended up in some just dumb hotel lounge with a family.

0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.320
<v Speaker 1>There was this drummer and he had a couple of

0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.560
<v Speaker 1>electric drums there, and I thought it was really cool.

0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.960
<v Speaker 1>And that was before that was before the time of

0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.560
<v Speaker 1>electric drums. And I came up to him during a

0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.680
<v Speaker 1>break and yeah, asked him about it and we got

0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.120
<v Speaker 1>to talking and he's like, you want to be a drummer, God,

0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:35.600
<v Speaker 1>don't be a drummer. This is awful. This is horrible,

0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and no drummer had ever said that to me before.

0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.280
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, whoa, this is going to be terrifle

0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:49.240
<v Speaker 1>allows the life.

0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.679
<v Speaker 2>He was just a miserable person, though.

0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.800
<v Speaker 1>He was, but I look, I was, you know fourteen

0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:56.920
<v Speaker 1>fifteen fourteen.

0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Did I ever tell you the story? I can't remember

0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.640
<v Speaker 2>if I've told this on the podcast or not. But

0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:04.760
<v Speaker 2>first off, for those of you who don't know, yes,

0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I am. I am not a drummer. I do not

0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.560
<v Speaker 2>play the drums. I never played the drums. They're the

0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:17.000
<v Speaker 2>greatest inside the writer's room writer joke in the history

0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.480
<v Speaker 2>of television was that, let's see if I get this right.

0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Because you're the musician, the writers on the Office wrote

0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Kevin to be the lead singer and drummer for a

0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:37.440
<v Speaker 2>police cover bande and the joke was cos, oh my god,

0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.720
<v Speaker 2>you just literally made everyone turn off. No, it was scranticity.

0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.280
<v Speaker 1>It was the police.

0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ. Well, now you're not even gonna remember the joke.

0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.079
<v Speaker 2>So apparently the joke is I'll remind you of the

0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.120
<v Speaker 2>joke that you nerds made is that in the Police

0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.240
<v Speaker 2>the singing is off the beat name of this off

0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the beat of the drumming. So for me to be

0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.360
<v Speaker 2>the lead singer and drummer of a police cover band,

0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.960
<v Speaker 2>I would have to be an absolute musical savant genius

0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.760
<v Speaker 2>to be able to accomplish those two things. Do you

0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:19.560
<v Speaker 2>remember this now?

0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:20.559
<v Speaker 1>It did great?

0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, But that was the joke. That was

0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.240
<v Speaker 2>the joke that no one in the world knew. But

0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.280
<v Speaker 2>that was the joke Paul used to help me. He

0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.240
<v Speaker 2>would tutor me. I guess and I've said this many times.

0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Ed Helms and Craig Robinson amazing musicians, so we would

0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, by the time I started playing with them,

0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.760
<v Speaker 2>there would be like six songs and they'd be like, yeah, okay, cool,

0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.359
<v Speaker 2>we got it. I got guys, We've got to practice.

0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.520
<v Speaker 2>And I would call Paul in and be like, come

0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.120
<v Speaker 2>over to the warehouse with me. I need help here.

0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:56.720
<v Speaker 2>These guys won't help me. But one time I was

0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.040
<v Speaker 2>went to a charity event with Alice Cooper and I

0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.240
<v Speaker 2>picked up at the airport. Yes, and there was like

0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.760
<v Speaker 2>a benefit concert that night. I mean, these people from

0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Kiss and all of these amazing musicians are going to

0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.120
<v Speaker 2>play together for this charity thing. And the guy who

0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.800
<v Speaker 2>picks me up at the airport says, you know, and

0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.760
<v Speaker 2>then at the end the last song, we're going to

0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.840
<v Speaker 2>call everybody up on stage and we want you to

0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:27.960
<v Speaker 2>play the drums on schools out for Summer. And I

0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:32.160
<v Speaker 2>was like I started like full on, just flopsweating in

0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:38.839
<v Speaker 2>the back of the car. I was like, I can't, didn't, No,

0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I did. I told him no, I didn't care him,

0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I said to him, And He's like, no, well, of

0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.720
<v Speaker 2>course they think I'm being modest, right, I'm not that great.

0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.800
<v Speaker 2>I think it's what they're thinking. Meanwhile, it's Adrian Young

0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.640
<v Speaker 2>from No, like an amazing drummer, is like playing the

0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.000
<v Speaker 2>rest of the show and all this, and I'm like, no, no, really,

0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.560
<v Speaker 2>like I really cannot do this, Like I am not

0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:07.200
<v Speaker 2>going to have Alice Cooper and members of Kiss and

0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:13.120
<v Speaker 2>all these like looking back at me like, yeah, so

0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I did. I did. I didn't have my tutor you

0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.280
<v Speaker 2>there to help me learn, So no.

0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.000
<v Speaker 1>I Oh, you know what we did on the office once.

0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.240
<v Speaker 2>The first time you tell it, do you remember now

0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:27.560
<v Speaker 2>you're remembering I.

0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Remember we had a drummer behind a curtain.

0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.120
<v Speaker 2>That was the first, the first, that's the only time

0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really play Phyllis's wedding.

0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Phillis's wedding, Yep, and it was.

0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 2>A great Was it from the Goo Goo Dolls or

0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.960
<v Speaker 2>something like that. I may be saying that totally the

0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.800
<v Speaker 2>wrong band. It was. It was a very famous, very

0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.680
<v Speaker 2>famous drummer who was behind the curtain playing the drums,

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:59.360
<v Speaker 2>and I and mine were dead. What do you you know?

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. We put something on him or I

0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.360
<v Speaker 1>think you were really touching though, Yeah.

0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.120
<v Speaker 2>No, I think I was touching. Yeah, but yeah, but

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:07.760
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't hear.

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, did you need a drummer behind a curtain?

0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Drummer behind the curtain, that's right, all right. I did

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.719
<v Speaker 2>not think we were gonna there you go. There are

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.280
<v Speaker 2>stories of drumming with Brian.

0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.480
<v Speaker 1>And Paul who were acting.

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Your sister. Yeah, Suzanne's Zan Liberstein now Daniels Daniels and

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:40.000
<v Speaker 2>your brother Warren Liberstein now Liberstein, both writers. Suzanne obviously

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.600
<v Speaker 2>married to Greg Daniels, a world renowned that's a horrible

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:51.679
<v Speaker 2>pra a world famous, a very big television executive, an

0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.720
<v Speaker 2>amazing book, by the way, which I have also read.

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 2>So what was were you all who was interested in

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.280
<v Speaker 2>television in your home? All of you or none of you?

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Or how did this start that all three of you

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 2>ended up working in television?

0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean we all had different interests. Yes, Suzanne

0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:17.680
<v Speaker 1>always liked she always liked producing. She was like leadership organizing.

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 1>She was as great as that. She kind of she

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 1>did some in high school. She in college she produced

0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 1>the Hasty Pudding Show. And then she at a college

0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 1>she went started working for Lauren Michaels. And then I

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>was I was always really interested in comedy and writing

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.640
<v Speaker 1>from how old junior high?

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Probably okay?

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.000
<v Speaker 1>And I was writing stuff since junior high.

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 2>What were your influences?

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 1>What? Ady Allen? Without fathers and Steve Martin? Okay, and

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.080
<v Speaker 1>my brother and I would memorize the Steve Martin stuff,

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 1>say it back and forth to each other those albums. Yeah,

0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 1>so I was going after comedy, but I didn't think

0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 1>anybody did that. Oh, Warren was acting and here was

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 1>a theater, and so we are. But we all just

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of had our own roots to, you know, follow

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>our own interests there. But then once Suzanne graduated and

0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.120
<v Speaker 1>started working for Lauren Michaelson. Then she started meeting some

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.000
<v Speaker 1>of her friends and she started dating Greg, and so

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I got to know Greg and some writers, and I'm like, oh,

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 1>people can do this. This is a this is a job,

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>right that you can get. It didn't seem possible before.

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, right, right.

0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.120
<v Speaker 1>I'd never met anyone. So I guess it was through

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Suzanne that I thought I could get in and started

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>getting in and started writing. And it was a couple

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 1>of years before I got my first job after writing

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 1>many many specscriptions. And then Warren was graduated pursuing acting

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>in New York, and he has his head shots and right,

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 1>it's going for that and you know, as you know,

0:14:52.760 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>that's it's kind of a brutal and a brutal road

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>takes a tremendous amount not just talent but luck, right,

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 1>and so he wasn't getting nowhere, and I was like,

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>come on, come on, how to write? So Suzanne led.

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 1>The way you know we were talking is basically it

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>we were watching each other. So, right, it wasn't a

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>coincidence that we all ended up better.

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but how lucky, I guess in a way for you,

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're you clearly could have found out this

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 2>information from somebody else, but that you know, her being

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.800
<v Speaker 2>interested in producing yet landing with Lorne Michaels, who at

0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 2>the time is the king of comedy on television. I mean,

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean starting SNL and and so for

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 2>you to have that experience of meeting Greg, meeting others,

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 2>seeing her work with them, that feels lucky. I mean, like, right,

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if she goes to works with Jerry Bruckheimer,

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a different it's a different deal.

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, And I'm writing Lauren order space, No, I probably

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 1>still I mean I wrote what interested me? I wasn't

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.360
<v Speaker 1>writing sketches, you know, I never tried to get on it.

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.840
<v Speaker 2>And now, right, do you think there's something about your

0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 2>parents or your upbringing or was it your environment? What

0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 2>do you think brought the three of you in some

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>ways to have this interest in the arts or was

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 2>it just you? Is it a coincidence?

0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't know my sister's job. You know,

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 1>it takes a lot of creativity and vision. But at

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.920
<v Speaker 1>the heart of it, you know, she's been an executive,

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:34.840
<v Speaker 1>a president.

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 2>She's a business person.

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, what of mean things like warrenn I always

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 1>would have like loved, loved that acting thing work to

0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.080
<v Speaker 1>work out. I don't know. I mean he certainly gave

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 1>it up hard, so maybe he was ready, you know.

0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I think that happens like actors that just they don't

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 1>just like abandon a dream. It's just like it's okay, okay,

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 1>I did what I needed to do to try to

0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>pursue that.

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Right becomes very difficult. Yes, you studied economics.

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I studied economics, and I loved economics.

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Why I loved it? What about it?

0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:16.640
<v Speaker 1>It's so interesting. Economics, just like you know in macroeconomics,

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 1>certainly in an undergrad level, is about how to organize

0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the world. How do you organize society? I just think

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.119
<v Speaker 1>it's it's fascinating. Everything you do is a series of

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>incentives to try to make the world, the country look

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>a certain way and act a certain way. I mean,

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 1>we are the US is more of it just a

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 1>result of its tax code than anything else.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that that experience helped you to create

0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.200
<v Speaker 2>worlds in television or at least manage people as showrunners?

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>No? Absolutely not. In fact, nothing helped me manage people

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.879
<v Speaker 1>as showrunners. I was not a good manager of people.

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.879
<v Speaker 2>Of you were a good manager, you weren't a good

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.560
<v Speaker 2>You don't think you were a good manager of people.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.280
<v Speaker 1>I think it was it was really hard for me.

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>I was not a natural manager of people. No.

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Interesting, is that because you prefer to be by yourself?

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we all prefer you to be by yourself. I

0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.240
<v Speaker 2>don't think you give yourself enough credit for that, because

0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I know because I think there are there are different

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:35.080
<v Speaker 2>types of leaders, and there was I don't think any

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:40.959
<v Speaker 2>question about your vision, and you had an ability to

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.520
<v Speaker 2>articulate those things. I don't think it's about I don't

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.879
<v Speaker 2>think being a people person as necessarily doesn't have to

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 2>make you a good leader. I'm not that you're not a.

0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.639
<v Speaker 1>People no, no, no, look I like people.

0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 2>You do?

0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah I do? Yeah? No, And it's kind of not

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>what I was talking about it. It's not like being

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 1>alone us. There's something about there's something about leadership where

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.879
<v Speaker 1>I think kind of a very selfish attitude gets you

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:19.479
<v Speaker 1>a long long way and to view everyone there, everyone

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.639
<v Speaker 1>around you as someone who can help you achieve what

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>you want. I think that's good for a leader. And

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.720
<v Speaker 1>I think my natural thought processes is like I'm here

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.680
<v Speaker 1>for everybody. I'm trying. I'm going to try to support

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>everybody and help them do their job as the boss.

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 1>And and I think that's it's just a rough way

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.600
<v Speaker 1>to go about your day when there's so many people

0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 1>people that you're managing. Yeah. Yeah, it kind of worked

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 1>in the writer's room. It was good there, but once

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.479
<v Speaker 1>it got something the whole show, it's just it's just

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:55.639
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people, right.

0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.400
<v Speaker 2>It's still hard I think for people to understand there's

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.959
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty people there just working on this

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.200
<v Speaker 2>one show. And that doesn't include you know, some post

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 2>production people, you know, some PR and marketing and all

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.159
<v Speaker 2>of that. The number is even higher than that that

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.520
<v Speaker 2>you're ultimately either overseeing or have a huge say in.

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, we're managing towards too. Yeah. I had no

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.359
<v Speaker 1>idea beyond with the network and studio multiple times a

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 1>day like that's oh as far as the right and

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.439
<v Speaker 1>now we're going. Now we're going to go through the

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 1>budget line by line, right, Wow, Okay.

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.120
<v Speaker 2>That's why I asked you about economics.

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's nothing in economics that that helps you

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 1>go through a budget.

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I tried again, and you shot me down again. There's

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 2>this thing in improv, you know, it's called yes, and

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:57.440
<v Speaker 2>you just literally don't.

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there is no. I don't think there is.

0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Anything, because you know what that just did. It just

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:03.639
<v Speaker 2>shut down the conversation.

0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Well any way you worry, you would let the conversation

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 1>go to a place where it's just like, Okay, we're

0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 1>talking about spreadsheets.

0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I think it's interesting.

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.359
<v Speaker 1>I think it's the conversation is doing great.

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Let's go back. Clarissa explains it all. That's your first

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 2>that's my first job, your first staff writing job. How'd

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 2>you get.

0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:51.639
<v Speaker 1>It through an agent? My first agent at William Morris, Okay,

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 1>with a writing partner at the time, I started off

0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.600
<v Speaker 1>just that job. I had a writing partner, Okay, And

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 1>uh yeah, we went to I had come out here,

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 1>signed a lease, and days later got a job that

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 1>took me back to New York writing, and then we

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 1>filmed in Orlando.

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.600
<v Speaker 2>In Orlando, Yeah, Orlando.

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Every time we got lost in Orlando, you'd end up

0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 1>at Disneyland. Yeah it's a big place.

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So were you living there or were you writing

0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 2>in New York? And then you would go down occasion

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 2>to go down.

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Not occasionally. We went down for like four months. Oh okay,

0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.960
<v Speaker 1>it was great. It was great. You know, say twenty

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:39.159
<v Speaker 1>four or twenty five something like that. Yeah, send me

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.159
<v Speaker 1>to Orlando, what do I care? Put me up in

0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 1>like a you know, a corporate apartment. Wow, it's bigger

0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>than any apartment I have had.

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.719
<v Speaker 2>You were super psyched. Yeah, did you figure that you

0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:55.920
<v Speaker 2>were living out your dream?

0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.240
<v Speaker 1>There was no question? And I was getting Uh. I

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 1>was sharing the salary with another with my writing part right,

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.359
<v Speaker 1>and it was writer skilled minimum, and we were for sharing.

0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.440
<v Speaker 1>And I felt so loaded. I don't think I've ever

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:13.159
<v Speaker 1>felt richer.

0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Really. Yeah, Now, did you have to share a bed?

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:22.639
<v Speaker 1>And no? Right, no, no, did I think we shared

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 1>like a two bedroom corporate apartment?

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, but you were living the life in

0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Orlando at twenty four.

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, No, it's the best. It's the best I

0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:38.080
<v Speaker 1>can imagine. I can mention going bit and we would

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:41.120
<v Speaker 1>we would write and then I remember taking could take

0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 1>a break. Someone on the cast, like one of the

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>fifteen year olds would go like back to the future,

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 1>right or something, because we were on the universal connected

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 1>to the universal lot. Okay, it was just good, like yeah, No,

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:55.479
<v Speaker 1>that's what a job should be.

0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 2>You have a number of jobs in these times, during

0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>this period time after Clarissa explains it all weird science.

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Weird science is serious the series.

0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then eventually you get hired by a guy

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 2>named Greg Daniels for a little show called King of

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 2>the Hill. Now, had you worked with Greg at all?

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:24.119
<v Speaker 1>But he has like been aware of my specscripts. You know,

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:25.520
<v Speaker 1>I'd always ask him, hey, what do you think of

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:26.119
<v Speaker 1>this one is?

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh? He would read them?

0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, okay, so he knew I was getting better

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 1>as a writer, gaining experience. I had some really dreadful

0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:36.520
<v Speaker 1>scripts in the beginning.

0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, what was your worst?

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.399
<v Speaker 1>I think I had wrote a Murphy Brown where a

0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:50.239
<v Speaker 1>terrorist came in. It's just so this so miskided.

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 2>By the way. I love that you said I think

0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:55.640
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a Murphy Brown.

0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I know, I wrote No.

0:24:57.920 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Damn, well, you wrote a Murphy Brown.

0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.439
<v Speaker 1>The I think was that this might be my worst.

0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Because there's there's a lot.

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Of did you do like back then? What were the

0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:11.080
<v Speaker 2>big like did you have a friends? Did you have

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:12.120
<v Speaker 2>a Seinfeld?

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:17.920
<v Speaker 1>I had a friends that had Seinfeld? Cheers Cheers might

0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>have been my very first script and I don't remember

0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 1>the plot.

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Let me guess they were in a bar.

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Hm. I'm sure it was not good.

0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:30.679
<v Speaker 2>What made you get better? Do you think your experience

0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 2>working made you get better?

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.560
<v Speaker 1>I think my experience not working actually, like this was

0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.520
<v Speaker 1>not was not going anywhere. I wasn't getting work and

0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 1>the scripts had to be better. And then when I

0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:47.359
<v Speaker 1>finally nailed it, I wrote like a Larry Sanders Sanders

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:54.199
<v Speaker 1>and the like. It was crazy how everything changed, The

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:57.120
<v Speaker 1>doors flew open, and I was hired on show after

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:02.480
<v Speaker 1>show based on that script. Really, yeah, I always I like,

0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 1>I give it a piece of advice to young writers

0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:09.760
<v Speaker 1>when they asked occasionally, which is, if someone gave me

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 1>a script and it was very good and I forwarded

0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 1>it to an agent, it was a it's a favor

0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:19.120
<v Speaker 1>to that writer who gave me the script. But if

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:22.960
<v Speaker 1>the script is excellent, it's a favorite of the agent,

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:25.159
<v Speaker 1>And if I give it to a producer, it's a

0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 1>favorite of the producer. You know, it just everything flips

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 1>got it and I saw one script just like really

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 1>with me through the first phase of working.

0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Now, King of the Hill, What was it like working

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 2>with Greg?

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh? It was really like Greg it was for showrunning. Yeah,

0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>so he was very different. He was kind of learning

0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 1>how to be a showrunner too, but he had crazy

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:56.960
<v Speaker 1>high standards. He's coming off the as you know, it's

0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:00.520
<v Speaker 1>coming off The Simpsons, and The Simpsons was headed atmosphere

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.159
<v Speaker 1>of just like you don't go Home, and so he

0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>brought that over to King of the Hill and we

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 1>were there just all the time writing and you know,

0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 1>every script got thrown out so many times before it

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 1>became what it was. He worked so hard and making

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.080
<v Speaker 1>something new. I mean, a show like that had that

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>concept had never existed before. Right. There was this question

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:27.680
<v Speaker 1>that was just one of these network questions that they're

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>told to ask of every animation, and so why does

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:33.719
<v Speaker 1>this have to be animated? That was just in the

0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>dogma and the answer was that it doesn't, and I'm

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 1>doing it anyway. Yeah. So right, so he put together

0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 1>a really fun staff, some people from The Simpsons and

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 1>some new people, some people from Texas, you know, to

0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:54.120
<v Speaker 1>try to get an authentic voice, and we really bonded

0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 1>and we played. We just played and played. And when

0:27:57.400 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 1>you're there all the time, there's there's time because you

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:02.520
<v Speaker 1>can't be it can't be productive all day, so it

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:07.920
<v Speaker 1>opens up more time to kind of goof around, and

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:12.760
<v Speaker 1>the bits became really extensive. We had an Office Olympics

0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 1>that turned into the Offices Office Olympics, right. We had

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.040
<v Speaker 1>there was a while there where we were a NERF

0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:24.000
<v Speaker 1>basketball game at lunch in the hallway. Started taking it

0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:27.720
<v Speaker 1>pretty seriously and the time that it would take, we

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:29.639
<v Speaker 1>started eating really quickly so we could get to it

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.280
<v Speaker 1>with fast, and we started sweating, so it'd bring a

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:36.159
<v Speaker 1>change of clothes and then we'd bring like, let's just

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 1>straight out change the sneakers, but on basketball, and we

0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 1>would get there and we would It became this thing

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 1>where we were like playing two hours in NERF basketball, right,

0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 1>h just sweating story. But it was great. The writers

0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:01.000
<v Speaker 1>were super high quality and learned a lot, and it

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 1>was my style of writing, you know, just real people

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>talking about any kind of like big joke, you know,

0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 1>much more more charactery. And it was a place where

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 1>I could really thrive.

0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel like there was anything different about writing

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:25.959
<v Speaker 2>for animation which you hadn't done before, either or because

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>there was no reason this show had to be animated.

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 2>It was very much the same. It was.

0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:35.520
<v Speaker 1>It was very much the same The only thing that

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>was freed up was it's as if I was writing

0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:43.120
<v Speaker 1>a live action show with a tremendous budget, because I

0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 1>could have, you know, thirty five locations right for a

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, in twenty two minutes. You know, I can

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 1>cut someplace new for a one line scene. And that

0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.480
<v Speaker 1>that was great training too, I think. But you know,

0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:00.920
<v Speaker 1>you don't get to do that in a cit right,

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 1>you get your one day out, you know, right, you

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>have your sense and then you get one.

0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Day out, so there's greater constraints. Yeah, you know. I

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 2>used to joke occasionally by the end with you guys

0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>about about Kevin Malone and trying to explain to you

0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>writers that I was not a cartoon character. I'm sorry

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and that, and that physically there were limitations to what I.

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Could actually do that that.

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Could do.

0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>No, you were not. We didn't give you that stuff.

0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh listen of all of the stuff. Yeah, the one

0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 2>that I still feel and and it was it is

0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 2>such a small joke and it made me laugh. It

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 2>is such a small joke episode where there's great we

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 2>used Reese in the warehouse to load trucks, and we're

0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:09.520
<v Speaker 2>taking over from the warehouse and there's grease everywhere. Dwight

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and Jim are sitting on the sofa in the warehouse

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 2>doing a talking head and I walk behind and then

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:25.040
<v Speaker 2>there's grease and then I slip and it was like, no, no,

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 2>you just need to like it's grease, like you just

0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 2>need to disappear, which, of course that means I'm laying

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm falling flat on my back behind the sofa. That

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>one I still feel by the way that one I

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:40.040
<v Speaker 2>still feel.

0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 1>And what year, what season was that?

0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Paul, don't ask all these questions. This

0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 2>was a spontaneous story. I didn't do research on that.

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Do you it's a little bit of a loaded question.

0:31:55.440 --> 0:32:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Do you have feelings about other animated shows that are

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 2>potentially not positive? Yeah? Do you have feelings about other

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:09.480
<v Speaker 2>animated shows that you feel like the writing gets sloppy,

0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I as opposed to the care that you all had

0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 2>on King of the Hill.

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not just animated. I feel most shows, you know,

0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel most shows slip and many shows never even

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 1>get there. I mean, you know, And part of it

0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:26.680
<v Speaker 1>is style and preference, the big multicams that where they

0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>have this big setup and joke and the setup could

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.640
<v Speaker 1>be literally labored, and it kind of doesn't matter if

0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 1>it barely makes sense. There's nothing wrong with that.

0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:36.640
<v Speaker 2>But I don't like, you don't want to write it.

0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:38.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to write it, and I don't want

0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:41.479
<v Speaker 1>to watch it. But but so what, It doesn't mean that,

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 1>like millions of people are wrong for enjoying it, right,

0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:51.680
<v Speaker 1>so we understandly, Like, yeah, I can't watch most television

0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>or comedy. I can't watch most comedy because I just

0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 1>it just makes me too angry that they're making decisions right. No,

0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 1>And I hear a setup that's a tiny bit labored

0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 1>and isn't honest, it makes me angry, you know, And

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:11.800
<v Speaker 1>I can't enjoy the joke that comes after, and it

0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 1>really takes me out of it.

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:16.680
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting. You and I are very very st.

0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:19.760
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes I hear the whole conversation that went into

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a joke. Yeah, I hear that, and I hear the

0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>like the twenty minutes that created it.

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:27.680
<v Speaker 2>I do the same thing with actors, really, I do

0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 2>the same I do the same thing. Yeah, it's when

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:35.640
<v Speaker 2>there's a choice that is made that makes no sense

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:41.640
<v Speaker 2>in terms of character, but is done for the writers. Oh,

0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 2>it makes me so angry. Yeah, it makes me so angry.

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:49.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean that and bad performances, let's be clear. Yeah,

0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 2>but but it again.

0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:53.040
<v Speaker 1>It's just like, what do you want to call a

0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:57.720
<v Speaker 1>bad performance if I just took my daughter to see Hairspray? Okay,

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:01.880
<v Speaker 1>So in that there's a kind of performance that everybody's doing.

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Obviously they were all directed to do it, and maybe

0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.839
<v Speaker 1>it's baked into the into the show itself, right that

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:11.879
<v Speaker 1>I do not that's tough to call that acting, even

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 1>for me, you know, because you're not even pretending. But hey,

0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 1>there was a thousand people like loving it?

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 2>So right? Did your daughter love it?

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:26.319
<v Speaker 1>She liked it. It's not her favorite musical, okay, I

0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>mean she didn't know that. Going favorite musical probably Hamilton.

0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's a great choice.

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 1>That's a great choice.

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:38.680
<v Speaker 2>That's a great choice. Makes dad proud. So after King

0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:41.759
<v Speaker 2>of the Hill, you have this stretch I referred to

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:46.479
<v Speaker 2>before Drew Carey Show, the Bernie mac Show. What were

0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:51.480
<v Speaker 2>what was it about those shows that you bunny? What

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:54.040
<v Speaker 2>was it about those shows that worked well for you

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:56.919
<v Speaker 2>or that you responded to or why were they good

0:34:56.920 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 2>shows for you?

0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So the first one Drew carry it ended up

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 1>being like just an awful mistake.

0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, Like I.

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Kind of enjoyed watching it, and I was like, oh,

0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 1>they're really doing non sensical kind of you know, some

0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 1>of the leaps they make logically or just kind of

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:19.720
<v Speaker 1>like breaking the rules a little bit. And I was like, huh,

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:22.560
<v Speaker 1>this is a kind of a real forward thinking show.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 1>And then when I got there, it was like it

0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.840
<v Speaker 1>was all by accident. They weren't doing that on purpose.

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:34.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, yeah, I think so. They just it was

0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 1>how they worked, and they did everything together. There was

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:39.280
<v Speaker 1>no solo.

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Work for writers.

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.360
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I was completely confused the first time I

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>was sent off for script because in the room fifteen

0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.200
<v Speaker 1>of us whatever went line by line through an outline

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:52.600
<v Speaker 1>creating the dialogue, and the whole thing was just written

0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:55.720
<v Speaker 1>in a different form, not in script form. And then

0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>at a certain point they gave it to me and

0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:01.759
<v Speaker 1>said you have a week. I was like a week

0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:05.480
<v Speaker 1>to do what? And there's in fact, there were like

0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:09.040
<v Speaker 1>three lines maybe there where they got stuck on a

0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:11.080
<v Speaker 1>joke and they just said writer's choice, and I think

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 1>there was like a joke for them to write that,

0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:16.200
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, am I just supposed to reform

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:19.640
<v Speaker 1>at this and fill in three jokes? Am I rewriting

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:21.960
<v Speaker 1>something I don't I still don't know what I was

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:24.319
<v Speaker 1>supposed to do and I can't remember what I did.

0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:28.160
<v Speaker 1>It was very afusing to me. But the part where

0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 1>the part where you know, I just personally enjoy and again, look,

0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 1>hey some writers just want to write in a Greek

0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.759
<v Speaker 1>but that's great, right, But the part where you know,

0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:40.120
<v Speaker 1>I get to go off and really craft something I

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:40.759
<v Speaker 1>didn't get to do.

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:46.440
<v Speaker 2>It didn't exist. Fascinating. So the fact that it was

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:50.880
<v Speaker 2>your first sort of significant show that took place in

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:56.600
<v Speaker 2>a workplace environment is haphazard and there's zero connection.

0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.520
<v Speaker 1>It was yeah, yeah, okay.

0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's interesting. What about Bernie Mac did you work?

0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:07.279
<v Speaker 2>I liked you worked with Kwappas, right, Yeah, I.

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Worked with Clapas. I think he directed two of mine,

0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and I worked with Larry Wilmore. Larry I was running

0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:16.080
<v Speaker 1>that created that that was really interesting. That was it

0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:18.800
<v Speaker 1>was different than anything I had done before, a different

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:20.799
<v Speaker 1>vibe in the room. But it was fun to do

0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:23.879
<v Speaker 1>and we were trying so they sent it wasn't better,

0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 1>It's just it was maybe we didn't get there. But

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:29.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, we were trying. It was good.

0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:33.480
<v Speaker 2>The show was known for the moments where Bernie would

0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 2>break the fourth wall and address the audience.

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, To what degree were those scripted moments or how

0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:41.919
<v Speaker 2>much did it come from him?

0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh? The show was one hundred percent scripted.

0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember any improvising on set.

0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So you would write those yeah, yeah, everything fully fully.

0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 1>And it was fully formed. So I got there in

0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:59.280
<v Speaker 1>season two, so Larry had fully formed the show right before.

0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:02.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, I wasn't a part of creating what that

0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 1>show was.

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:06.319
<v Speaker 2>It just helped, just because I think it's interesting. You know,

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>these two shows essentially back to back, the Bernie Mack

0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Show and the Drew Carey Show, obviously named after their stars.

0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Was there anything different working in the writer's room when

0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.760
<v Speaker 2>you're writing for someone with their name on the show.

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're they're there, and they're a huge presence. I

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:30.839
<v Speaker 1>mean sometimes they come in. Drew Drew would he would

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.320
<v Speaker 1>come in, kind of sit on the couch by the wall,

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:39.480
<v Speaker 1>order a pizza for himself, and fall asleep. I liked

0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.800
<v Speaker 1>you a lot. I thought he was jolly and nice

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:45.799
<v Speaker 1>and funny. I thought he was a good guy. But

0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:48.560
<v Speaker 1>you know when the star comes in and just kind

0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:51.799
<v Speaker 1>of casually sits down behind everyone, that's not That's not

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:56.120
<v Speaker 1>good for creativity. No, yeah, no, that wasn't That wasn't

0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 1>his best move. And then Bernie mac he was definitely

0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:04.520
<v Speaker 1>a guy who had a big sense of who he

0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:06.800
<v Speaker 1>was and how he was funny and what he wanted.

0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Is that part of your job figuring out how to

0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:14.000
<v Speaker 2>write his funny Yeah, definitely. I mean, I know Greg

0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 2>talks about that. Not to bring up the office, but

0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Greg has talked a lot about that, about seeing forty

0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:23.400
<v Speaker 2>year old virgin and that giving him a different perspective

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 2>on kind of who Steve was and what Steve was

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:30.080
<v Speaker 2>able to do, and incorporating that into the writing of

0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Michael Scott.

0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he made a big decision there that there was

0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 1>a broader character, a more likable guy. I mean, that

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:41.759
<v Speaker 1>was a key decision to take the show for you.

0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but in Bernie. In the case of Bernie, i mean,

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:50.320
<v Speaker 2>his sort of style persona at that point was pretty

0:39:50.320 --> 0:39:53.239
<v Speaker 2>well defined. Yeah, because that becomes you.

0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:55.480
<v Speaker 1>We were going to that and I was definitely at

0:39:55.760 --> 0:39:59.800
<v Speaker 1>a loss there being a white guy from Connecticut, it

0:39:59.920 --> 0:40:05.799
<v Speaker 1>was difficult to even understand him. Sometimes everyone else could mm,

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:09.879
<v Speaker 1>but he had you know, he was kind of deep

0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Chicago and stop getting his voice. Yeah, but it was

0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:15.640
<v Speaker 1>a great challenge too.

0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Obviously we've talked a lot about the office, your impact

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:43.320
<v Speaker 2>on the show, but significantly for you, it becomes your debut,

0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:48.000
<v Speaker 2>your premiere, your you become an actor.

0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I never thought could happened.

0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:53.640
<v Speaker 2>You like it? Do you want to keep doing more?

0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? It's interesting. It's interesting. You know. I don't think

0:40:57.200 --> 0:41:01.120
<v Speaker 1>about it much, and let but sometimes when I'm watching

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:06.279
<v Speaker 1>something and there's someone kind of liked me, okay doing

0:41:06.320 --> 0:41:09.759
<v Speaker 1>a part, I start to think about different choices and

0:41:10.680 --> 0:41:12.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe I could have done that a little bit better.

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:15.919
<v Speaker 2>I like that.

0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, And I don't think about it much. And

0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:22.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, I made a movie where I started made

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.280
<v Speaker 1>me think a lot about what a lead is lead actor.

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:27.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's very different.

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 2>In what way you're talking. First off, you're talking about

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Song of Neck and back by the way, he also

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:38.839
<v Speaker 2>directed and produced and wrote and did the whole damn thing.

0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:42.880
<v Speaker 2>But being so number one on the call sheet, what

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:44.680
<v Speaker 2>is that? Why is that different?

0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:50.200
<v Speaker 1>I think you have the responsibility of creating someone and

0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:55.400
<v Speaker 1>maybe it's all. Maybe it's just genetic, but people have

0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:58.000
<v Speaker 1>to just want to watch. You put the camera on

0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:02.320
<v Speaker 1>someone and they bend down the tie their shoelaces. You know,

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:04.360
<v Speaker 1>it's watching some people do that. That's going to be

0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 1>fascinating and I can't take my eyes away. And other

0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 1>people are just kind of tying their shoelaces, and a

0:42:12.040 --> 0:42:15.319
<v Speaker 1>lead needs to be fascinating. What does it take to

0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 1>get there? You know, I don't have formal training. Maybe

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:20.799
<v Speaker 1>there's maybe there's a lot you could do. I don't know,

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:25.040
<v Speaker 1>or maybe you just have to have that persona that

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 1>face and that way of being when the camera's pointing

0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 1>at you. I want to know what you're thinking. I

0:42:30.719 --> 0:42:33.120
<v Speaker 1>want to know what's going on right, I want to

0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:36.520
<v Speaker 1>see more. So like I don't know, I don't know

0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:38.280
<v Speaker 1>how to get there. I don't know if I ever could,

0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:41.279
<v Speaker 1>and the roads that takes me to. You know, I

0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:44.640
<v Speaker 1>stopped the next movie I made. I didn't put myself in.

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I stopped trying to develop for myself because I don't

0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>know what I don't know what that thing is.

0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I think though that

0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I know that that cannot be something that you're thinking

0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:59.160
<v Speaker 2>about when you're doing it. I do know that.

0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, you're probably right about that. I don't know.

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:08.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, You're probably right. He just got to

0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 1>be in the moment, Yeah, trying to do your thing.

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Although sometimes you know, like Steve wasn't there till take twelve,

0:43:17.520 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and there was nothing interesting about the first eleven takes.

0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, maybe there is something you can do.

0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:28.759
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I mean, there was nothing interesting in the first

0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:29.719
<v Speaker 2>eleven takes.

0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I remember once with Julian Farino was directing this episode

0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:36.960
<v Speaker 1>that I wrote, and I was on set and it's

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 1>just I was watching the scene. I was like, blah,

0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you know what's going on? And I totally thought it

0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:46.040
<v Speaker 1>was me And I was talking to him about what

0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:48.920
<v Speaker 1>we could rewrite. I didn't know why it wasn't a

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:51.960
<v Speaker 1>more entertaining scene, and he'd just sit hold on and

0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:55.279
<v Speaker 1>he went and he talked to Steve privately and came

0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:58.920
<v Speaker 1>back and the next take was amazing. Yeah, and it

0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:02.200
<v Speaker 1>was a completely a scene worth watching. And I don't

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 1>remember which what scene it was, but I remember being

0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 1>completely happy and I said, it was like, what did

0:44:09.600 --> 0:44:12.440
<v Speaker 1>you What did you say to Steve? He said, I

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:14.279
<v Speaker 1>just taught him. I told him to kind of, you know,

0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>bring it up. It's gotta kind of bring it. So,

0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:20.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, we should have Steve on here and

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:22.919
<v Speaker 1>ask him what the hell he does when he needs

0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:23.480
<v Speaker 1>to bring it.

0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I think it's about just being fully committed to playing

0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 2>the part in the given circumstance. I think that's interesting.

0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's what I always felt about the rest of

0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 1>my acting, you know, and playing Toby was like, when

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm completely in it, then I'm scoring.

0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:49.000
<v Speaker 2>For you. Yeah, acting, directing, writing, or I'm gonna say producing,

0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:52.279
<v Speaker 2>but being boss man, either showrunner or the head of

0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 2>a movie, you being the person in charge. What's your favorite.

0:44:56.440 --> 0:45:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Straight out favorite ooh ooh oh. You know, it's because

0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:04.719
<v Speaker 1>it's moments I can't do that. I can't do that.

0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:08.879
<v Speaker 1>There's these moments that are amazing in each one of them.

0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:13.840
<v Speaker 1>While producing the least okay, but now there's moments in

0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:17.400
<v Speaker 1>acting when you nail something that everything just feels like

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:21.520
<v Speaker 1>that's amazing. But at the same time, writing too, it's

0:45:21.520 --> 0:45:24.560
<v Speaker 1>what I get to still do, you know, I still

0:45:24.719 --> 0:45:28.360
<v Speaker 1>will I shouldn't say I'll still just sit here and

0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:30.959
<v Speaker 1>crack myself up. I would laugh.

0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:37.200
<v Speaker 2>I could promise you this. I don't crack myself up

0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:42.080
<v Speaker 2>in front of a mirror. Yeah, but yeah, it's a difference.

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's the toughest thing with acting, and that's why

0:45:44.600 --> 0:45:46.400
<v Speaker 1>I do it the least. That is it. That's when

0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:48.319
<v Speaker 1>I figured out when I went on a couple of

0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:51.920
<v Speaker 1>auditions after the office and being on the other side

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.879
<v Speaker 1>of auditions, I learned how, how what I need to do,

0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:57.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's days of prep for an audition.

0:45:58.000 --> 0:45:59.000
<v Speaker 2>What you need to do?

0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:01.560
<v Speaker 1>What I would need to do is days of prep

0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:04.919
<v Speaker 1>for an audition. Okay, but that only makes sense if

0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:08.160
<v Speaker 1>that's that's all you're doing, right, you know, you can't.

0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:10.920
<v Speaker 1>You can't be pursuing multiple things. It'll just eat up

0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:12.200
<v Speaker 1>all of your time.

0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Why is it days of prep? What do you like?

0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:15.480
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean?

0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:19.839
<v Speaker 1>So? I think when I'm auditioning someone, someone has made

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:24.440
<v Speaker 1>a decision about every word, and someone has made choices,

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and they've created a character, and they've done all the work.

0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:31.359
<v Speaker 1>They get the part, you know, and it doesn't mean

0:46:31.400 --> 0:46:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that someone else wouldn't have gotten there and been great.

0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:38.160
<v Speaker 1>It's just that well they did it. I mean, you're

0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:39.040
<v Speaker 1>comparing people.

0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:44.640
<v Speaker 2>This is fascinating to me. This is fascinating to me.

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 1>So when someone comes in and they're reading, I know

0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:49.839
<v Speaker 1>they'll be I know that they would be okay from

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 1>there from a previous work. But I see it with

0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:56.839
<v Speaker 1>someone who said did everything. Yeah.

0:46:57.160 --> 0:47:01.840
<v Speaker 2>See, my theory is the opposite, not that the work

0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:06.400
<v Speaker 2>isn't there, because yes, the work should be there, and

0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:10.640
<v Speaker 2>there should be a character and choices made but fully formed.

0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:15.879
<v Speaker 2>My belief always is this is a collaborative situation, right,

0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and particularly as an actor who has given very very

0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:22.360
<v Speaker 2>little information most of the time.

0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Most of the time.

0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if I'm auditioning for you and I don't

0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:31.160
<v Speaker 2>know you, this character is a character that has been imagined.

0:47:31.320 --> 0:47:35.719
<v Speaker 2>My job is to that I make it better in

0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:40.640
<v Speaker 2>some way or I at least embody perfectly the vision

0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:45.560
<v Speaker 2>that that writer has. But ultimately, in an audition, my

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:48.799
<v Speaker 2>belief is is it's a work in progress. If I

0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:55.520
<v Speaker 2>come in with a fully, fully framed performance, then your

0:47:55.680 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 2>belief is psychologically that's how he's going to do it.

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:04.240
<v Speaker 2>So here's an example. Yeah, I will memorize the pages.

0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I always hold a script, Always hold a script, because psychologically,

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 2>to me, that indicates to you we're working together on

0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:18.440
<v Speaker 2>this we're still on the working on this. I'm shuffling

0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:22.040
<v Speaker 2>papers and pay me not that I put that away.

0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Because to me, if I deliver a fully formed performance

0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:30.160
<v Speaker 2>where everything is done to me, then you believe that's

0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:32.719
<v Speaker 2>all this, that's that's the performance that I'm getting from

0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:33.319
<v Speaker 2>this guy.

0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You know, when I start to think what you're

0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:41.200
<v Speaker 1>worried about is when we do it again and again

0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 1>and the actor comes in exactly the exactly the same,

0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:47.960
<v Speaker 1>exactly the same.

0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.239
<v Speaker 2>And my my favorite words in an audition is to

0:48:51.280 --> 0:48:55.239
<v Speaker 2>give me one adjustment and do it. I love doing it.

0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Again when I did when I did the newstrip or

0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:04.279
<v Speaker 1>contained Fonda. Okay, she said that when she comes on set,

0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:08.479
<v Speaker 1>she comes in with choices and having done all the work.

0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:12.360
<v Speaker 1>And she said, well, whoa, what if it said that

0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:14.239
<v Speaker 1>some people don't like that They want to be able

0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:17.799
<v Speaker 1>to direct you, you know, tell you what their character is.

0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:21.480
<v Speaker 1>And then she said, what if they don't. Yeah, I

0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:25.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know. So yeah, in a script, when not everything's

0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:28.799
<v Speaker 1>thought out the best way it should, it's not a

0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:33.080
<v Speaker 1>final product a script obviously, you know it's that's not

0:49:33.200 --> 0:49:36.360
<v Speaker 1>the kind of piece of writing that you're doing. So

0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:39.479
<v Speaker 1>you know, someone comes in they show you something better

0:49:39.480 --> 0:49:43.640
<v Speaker 1>than what you imagined, and it's just like fantastic, Oh, fantastic, right,

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.319
<v Speaker 1>And it's a piece of relief. And I don't think

0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:49.800
<v Speaker 1>somebody can't not take an adjustment unless they show me

0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:53.399
<v Speaker 1>they can't, because we'll always give you know, I give

0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:56.759
<v Speaker 1>an adjustment to an actor even when I love their performance,

0:49:57.000 --> 0:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>and I often make them worse because I liked what

0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>they we're doing before. But still it's just like you

0:50:02.440 --> 0:50:05.880
<v Speaker 1>have to say something, and you know, if someone ignores

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 1>the adjustment, then that's maybe a red flag, right, fascinating Yeah,

0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And then sometimes you know, especially with television less so

0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:18.960
<v Speaker 1>with film, you're not auditioning for the director, right, you're

0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:21.359
<v Speaker 1>editioning for the writers who aren't going to be there

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:23.319
<v Speaker 1>on set or aren't going to be the ones who

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:25.359
<v Speaker 1>are able to have a conversation with you or give

0:50:25.400 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 1>you notes. Right, So it's like you get what they're after,

0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:32.440
<v Speaker 1>or get they're really happy with with what you're doing,

0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 1>and it's just like, Okay, well, how much can the

0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:36.799
<v Speaker 1>director really fuck this up?

0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Well? I know that's what the television producers are always

0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:51.919
<v Speaker 2>thinking about, how much how can we make this director prove? Yeah, well,

0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:55.640
<v Speaker 2>you're one of those two. I left it well. Your

0:50:55.719 --> 0:51:03.080
<v Speaker 2>latest show, Lucky Hank with the incredible member of the cast,

0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:05.920
<v Speaker 2>member of the office. Maybe not the role he wanted originally,

0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:10.320
<v Speaker 2>but he was still there. God bless America. Lucky Hank.

0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Such an interesting show. And what I want to talk

0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:20.080
<v Speaker 2>about is your partnership with Aaron Aaron Zelman. You guys

0:51:20.640 --> 0:51:26.640
<v Speaker 2>come from completely different backgrounds. Yeah, on order, criminal Minds,

0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:33.719
<v Speaker 2>the Killing Resurrection. I mean he's got a very dark damages,

0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 2>bloodline procedurals.

0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, very dark, very dark. He's very comfortable writing stuff

0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 1>that's very dark. He's a very funny guy. But the

0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:48.440
<v Speaker 1>more he okay, so this is interesting. It's just an

0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:52.200
<v Speaker 1>interesting So they were actors that we had who the

0:51:52.200 --> 0:51:54.960
<v Speaker 1>more they did it, the more serious they got, you know,

0:51:55.160 --> 0:51:58.040
<v Speaker 1>guest actors or something. And I've seen that with drama

0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:01.520
<v Speaker 1>actors that you know, first sake it's gone a light.

0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:05.640
<v Speaker 1>But the more they search for truth, which is their process,

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:10.560
<v Speaker 1>the more they find the most truth in the most

0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:12.080
<v Speaker 1>dramatic parts of it.

0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:14.440
<v Speaker 2>In your show, what were you searching for?

0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:18.480
<v Speaker 1>So we started with a half hour script that we

0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:23.120
<v Speaker 1>sold and financially they didn't make it work. It to

0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:26.319
<v Speaker 1>be an hour. So we said, okay. Nobody said make

0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:28.720
<v Speaker 1>it more dramatic. Nobody said, don't make it a comedy.

0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:35.040
<v Speaker 1>But it just has a pull towards the dramatic, like

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:37.719
<v Speaker 1>you're watching something for a longer amount of time and

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:39.600
<v Speaker 1>it just has to kind of has to be there.

0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:43.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but we were we were looking for

0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:48.719
<v Speaker 1>an honest look at the life of a workingman of

0:52:48.840 --> 0:52:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that age, and we just wanted it to be about

0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:54.360
<v Speaker 1>living life.

0:52:54.680 --> 0:52:54.880
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Obviously we were in a we didn't have a procedural,

0:52:57.280 --> 0:52:59.440
<v Speaker 1>we didn't have a thing to happen. But the thing

0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:04.840
<v Speaker 1>we could have had was either soap or issues, you know,

0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and we really fought hard to Every time we kind

0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:10.840
<v Speaker 1>of smelled soap coming in, we went the other way

0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:13.880
<v Speaker 1>and we didn't let any issues in. We just didn't

0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 1>want to be an issue show. This was just about

0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:20.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to go through life. It got more dramatic as

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:23.480
<v Speaker 1>it went on. We started off kind of light, and

0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:25.359
<v Speaker 1>as we got some other characters more and what they

0:53:25.360 --> 0:53:27.920
<v Speaker 1>were going through, and it's just a guy was having

0:53:27.960 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a midlife crisis, and so you know, as Bob goes

0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:35.640
<v Speaker 1>through it, it's just it becomes just more intense. So

0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:39.319
<v Speaker 1>there's episodes where I really feel are comfortable in the

0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:43.600
<v Speaker 1>calling them a drama, and others, certainly early on, calling

0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:44.200
<v Speaker 1>it a comedy.

0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:49.480
<v Speaker 2>But this is my belief. Life is both. Yeah, life

0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:54.920
<v Speaker 2>is both. For me, the best dramas are also funny,

0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:58.080
<v Speaker 2>not all. I mean there are some where it's so

0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:02.600
<v Speaker 2>crazy dark Maid's Tale. I think Handmaid's Tale is a

0:54:02.640 --> 0:54:06.520
<v Speaker 2>fantastic show. There is not a laugh in Handmaid's Tale

0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:11.279
<v Speaker 2>now all in all of the seasons. But for me,

0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:17.759
<v Speaker 2>you look at the sopranos. Yeah, Succession, I'm rewatching Fargo

0:54:18.160 --> 0:54:22.160
<v Speaker 2>now Planes. Yeah, there is a like I'm laughing out

0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:25.640
<v Speaker 2>loud with my earphones on and my iPad in bed,

0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:28.439
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm laughing out loud, and then you know, five

0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:33.120
<v Speaker 2>seconds later somebody gets brutally murdered. But that's what I think.

0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:37.279
<v Speaker 2>The best life is is both funny and dramatic and

0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:39.719
<v Speaker 2>sometimes at the same time. Why do we have to

0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:40.520
<v Speaker 2>characterize it?

0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:44.000
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, but it's it's wild. There's two

0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:47.280
<v Speaker 1>sets of executives. Got your comedy executives and your dramas.

0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:48.600
<v Speaker 1>You got to pitch right.

0:54:49.960 --> 0:54:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Oscar Nunez comes and plays an appearance, plays Dean Rose. Yeah,

0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:54.759
<v Speaker 2>why didn't I?

0:54:55.920 --> 0:55:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I'm just fucking with you. I know you, I

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:02.319
<v Speaker 1>know you are.

0:55:03.840 --> 0:55:06.520
<v Speaker 2>I've literally never said that to anybody here but you.

0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Oscar is in it? What the hell

0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:13.200
<v Speaker 2>is that? He's not funny or dramatic?

0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:18.160
<v Speaker 1>Love to have you in it?

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Is there? Season two?

0:55:19.640 --> 0:55:21.880
<v Speaker 1>I hope? So, I don't know. We're on strike, but

0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:26.560
<v Speaker 1>ends they'll let me know that little thing.

0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Are you happy with the reception?

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:34.479
<v Speaker 1>People? Critics have loved it. I couldn't be happier there.

0:55:34.880 --> 0:55:37.359
<v Speaker 1>I just watched watch more people watched it. I mean,

0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:40.680
<v Speaker 1>television has changed so much. Yes, everybody used to watch everything.

0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I'man still a lot of millions and millions of people

0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:46.440
<v Speaker 1>watching what I write. And then it's six hundred thousand

0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:50.280
<v Speaker 1>and oh that's good, right, it is right.

0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's not too late to watch it, by the way,

0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:54.200
<v Speaker 2>And the numbers still count.

0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:57.120
<v Speaker 1>I never still count as it's getting and you know what,

0:55:57.160 --> 0:55:59.319
<v Speaker 1>I haven't even heard what we've what we've done on

0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:01.719
<v Speaker 1>amc US, which I think was a big part of

0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:02.960
<v Speaker 1>how people watched it.

0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:07.640
<v Speaker 2>How I watched it, Good Lucky Hank with the incredible

0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Bob Bon and Kirk and Kirk.

0:56:10.160 --> 0:56:10.759
<v Speaker 1>He's so good.

0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.759
<v Speaker 2>How is uh? I can't ever say her name? And

0:56:14.800 --> 0:56:22.719
<v Speaker 2>I really like Murray, Yes he knows. Yeah, I love her.

0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:28.320
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, not typically funny like she she's

0:56:28.360 --> 0:56:32.239
<v Speaker 2>on those shows that are not typically so funny. She

0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:35.680
<v Speaker 2>is so delightful. And obviously my old friend Cedric, not obviously,

0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:42.560
<v Speaker 2>but Cedric, your Borough, Dietrich Botter, and many many more. Congratulations,

0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:43.799
<v Speaker 2>thanks on that.

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:46.719
<v Speaker 1>It's been fun to do and I think, really I'm

0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:48.319
<v Speaker 1>happy with how it came out, you.

0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Know, good.

0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:50.719
<v Speaker 1>I just want people to see it. Yeah.

0:56:50.800 --> 0:56:53.919
<v Speaker 2>Good. How is it? To go back to my original question,

0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:56.960
<v Speaker 2>working with Aaron? Was there a good there?

0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:00.080
<v Speaker 1>So? It was a lot of fun there is so

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:03.480
<v Speaker 1>we were from these different worlds. Yeah, and we would

0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:07.279
<v Speaker 1>argue forever, like hours and hours we could argue, and

0:57:07.320 --> 0:57:11.240
<v Speaker 1>then when we got to the page we would agree

0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:12.360
<v Speaker 1>so easily.

0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Argue on a setup.

0:57:13.440 --> 0:57:16.640
<v Speaker 1>We were what a scene should be, how to organize it,

0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:19.360
<v Speaker 1>like all the rules, all the ways that we put

0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:23.680
<v Speaker 1>together a scene were very different. Okay, ways that we've

0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:27.200
<v Speaker 1>been taught, the things we would value first as we

0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:31.760
<v Speaker 1>got to a place, and then it was just kind

0:57:31.760 --> 0:57:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of wild that we realized, Okay, we just got to

0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:38.240
<v Speaker 1>stop talking and put things down, and that's where we

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:42.120
<v Speaker 1>really liked each other's writing, past scenes, back and forth easily.

0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.680
<v Speaker 1>It became very very easy. Actually nice.

0:57:46.160 --> 0:57:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, that combination those differences sometimes you find real gold.

0:57:51.440 --> 0:57:54.440
<v Speaker 2>And I think the aesthetic and feeling of the show

0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:58.640
<v Speaker 2>is so hard to describe because it is something special

0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:02.880
<v Speaker 2>and different and new. So congratulations on that.

0:58:02.920 --> 0:58:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks. It was new. It was different, like we didn't

0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:07.760
<v Speaker 1>have a model. Yeah, I couldn't point to another show

0:58:07.840 --> 0:58:09.080
<v Speaker 1>saying this is what we're doing.

0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, which different is good?

0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:14.680
<v Speaker 1>It is, it is. I think it's why we're having

0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:17.640
<v Speaker 1>a tough time finding I just need that audience to

0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:21.480
<v Speaker 1>come check out the show. It's good. It's really good.

0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Check it out. Check it out for Paul and for

0:58:24.600 --> 0:58:29.880
<v Speaker 2>me and my future role on season two. Yeah, the

0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:34.280
<v Speaker 2>writers strike, How is it different and the same as

0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:36.280
<v Speaker 2>what we went through on the Office in two thousand and.

0:58:36.280 --> 0:58:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Eight, Let's see. I mean both times we're striking for

0:58:40.600 --> 0:58:43.880
<v Speaker 1>something very clear. Yes, this time feels different in that

0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:48.320
<v Speaker 1>even if we win, it's not gonna be enough. Yeah,

0:58:48.440 --> 0:58:52.080
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't anybody's fault, Like the companies didn't get together

0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:56.880
<v Speaker 1>as an oligopoly and decide, hey, let's let's screw the

0:58:56.880 --> 0:58:59.640
<v Speaker 1>writers and make everything six to eight episodes instead of

0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:01.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty two. But that's at the heart of it, because

0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:05.000
<v Speaker 1>we were the bottle that we were paid was per

0:59:05.000 --> 0:59:08.960
<v Speaker 1>episode based on twenty two to twenty four episodes a year.

0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:13.760
<v Speaker 1>In success, that's right. So now in success it's still

0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:16.840
<v Speaker 1>six or eight episodes. Still takes a year to do.

0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Especially I mean, if you're the showrunner and you're the

0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:23.520
<v Speaker 1>salary just went to a quarter to a third, So

0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:28.840
<v Speaker 1>nobody's fault. That's the way the marketplace went. But we're broken.

0:59:29.160 --> 0:59:31.760
<v Speaker 1>A quarter of what we're making is not enough. So

0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:34.360
<v Speaker 1>it's clear what happened. It's clear. It's clear what's wrong.

0:59:35.360 --> 0:59:40.800
<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's still we're fighting for these incremental gains, right,

0:59:41.320 --> 0:59:44.480
<v Speaker 1>just a few percentage points away actually in the deals.

0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:46.200
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know what's I don't know what the

0:59:46.200 --> 0:59:46.960
<v Speaker 1>future is going to be.

0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, to me, there's two issues, and you know

0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I can speak to it because it's it's all the same.

0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:58.480
<v Speaker 2>It's directors, it's writers, yeah, factors, but it's that, and

0:59:58.520 --> 1:00:04.160
<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's middle class actors and writers making a

1:00:04.200 --> 1:00:07.760
<v Speaker 2>living off residuals which went to zero.

1:00:08.160 --> 1:00:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Basically which went to zero. That's the other big thing,

1:00:12.120 --> 1:00:14.240
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like that's where we should all be

1:00:15.000 --> 1:00:17.600
<v Speaker 1>aligned with. All these three guilds should just get together.

1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Let's make the strike about residuals. I have a theory

1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:23.280
<v Speaker 1>that I I mean, I had a proposal that I

1:00:23.320 --> 1:00:25.000
<v Speaker 1>told them that don't seem to be acting on it.

1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 1>What was it? It was just like, if the show

1:00:27.680 --> 1:00:30.120
<v Speaker 1>is being offered by a streamer for a month, that's

1:00:30.160 --> 1:00:33.160
<v Speaker 1>an airing, and that should be a network payment, like

1:00:33.200 --> 1:00:36.320
<v Speaker 1>straight out like what we were making. It was great before, right,

1:00:36.400 --> 1:00:39.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it was working. It was working, it was working.

1:00:39.840 --> 1:00:43.480
<v Speaker 1>So take that airing. You know that they did that

1:00:43.560 --> 1:00:45.480
<v Speaker 1>whatever payment it was, and it got less and less

1:00:45.520 --> 1:00:48.479
<v Speaker 1>each time it was aired. But fine, keep the same

1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:52.400
<v Speaker 1>payment structure every month the streamer offers it. It's an airing,

1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:55.880
<v Speaker 1>and we should get a residual right based on that

1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:59.080
<v Speaker 1>old scale, and get rid of this, get rid of

1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:01.920
<v Speaker 1>this idea that like then it should somehow be tied

1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.800
<v Speaker 1>to downloads. I think that's our downfall there.

1:01:06.480 --> 1:01:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's a very very real problem. Everybody. You

1:01:11.640 --> 1:01:14.760
<v Speaker 2>know the last writers strike that was one hundred days.

1:01:15.120 --> 1:01:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it probably could be two hundred or three

1:01:18.280 --> 1:01:21.480
<v Speaker 2>hundred days this time, but wow, I think they're going

1:01:21.560 --> 1:01:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to come to an agreement. Well, middle class actors and writers,

1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.800
<v Speaker 2>you can't survive anymore. You can't. You can't survive. You can't,

1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:32.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I'm talking about face. If you talk

1:01:32.720 --> 1:01:36.920
<v Speaker 2>about the actors faces that you know on television that

1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:41.120
<v Speaker 2>used to get through sometimes a year of not finding

1:01:41.200 --> 1:01:44.560
<v Speaker 2>much work based on work that they had done and

1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:47.160
<v Speaker 2>that was still being seen on television. Well now you

1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:49.720
<v Speaker 2>could make an argument that their work has continued to

1:01:49.840 --> 1:01:55.439
<v Speaker 2>be seen even more and they can't qualify for health insurance. Yeah,

1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:58.760
<v Speaker 2>this is this is a significant. This is a significant

1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:02.800
<v Speaker 2>and nothing has changed. Nothing has changed about the work

1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:04.640
<v Speaker 2>or how many people are seeing it or any of

1:02:04.680 --> 1:02:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. The only thing that has changed is the distribution,

1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and that's a problem.

1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:11.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:02:11.600 --> 1:02:17.440
<v Speaker 2>So there you go on that note, pick up a sign,

1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and go walk down Sunset Boulevard. I'm so happy for

1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:26.320
<v Speaker 2>you and Lucky Hank. I'm so happy for you that

1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:30.920
<v Speaker 2>you have and are continuing to do work that is interesting,

1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:36.160
<v Speaker 2>that is changing the face of television, continuing to change

1:02:36.200 --> 1:02:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the face of television, and I just I love you,

1:02:40.920 --> 1:02:42.280
<v Speaker 2>I really do, and I.

1:02:42.120 --> 1:02:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Thank you love you too.

1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I hope we get to do it again sometime. Yes,

1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:50.560
<v Speaker 2>find something else, or I'll find something and hire you

1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:55.480
<v Speaker 2>as an actor. Okay, that'll be maybe that'll be the switch.

1:02:56.560 --> 1:03:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Always interesting, never a dull moment. Paul Eberstein, Thanks Paul,

1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:05.240
<v Speaker 2>thank you.

1:03:05.800 --> 1:03:06.520
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Paul, thank you so much. It was. It was so

1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:25.760
<v Speaker 2>great to talk to you again. You are engaging, you

1:03:25.840 --> 1:03:30.480
<v Speaker 2>are enlightening, and well you make me laugh. Everybody please

1:03:30.680 --> 1:03:34.720
<v Speaker 2>check out Lucky Hank, not just for Paul, but for yourselves.

1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:37.840
<v Speaker 2>You won't be disappointed. And while we're on the subject,

1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I do want to take a moment to let you

1:03:40.040 --> 1:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>guys know the writer strike. This is a This is

1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:46.720
<v Speaker 2>a very big deal. And because the writers are on strike,

1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:51.600
<v Speaker 2>as I believe they should be, it is impacting everyone

1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:56.440
<v Speaker 2>who works on film and television. Nothing is being filmed

1:03:56.520 --> 1:04:01.760
<v Speaker 2>right now, so that means makeup artists, camera up raiders, gaffers,

1:04:02.280 --> 1:04:06.800
<v Speaker 2>production assistants, caterers, everyone is right now is out of work.

1:04:07.400 --> 1:04:10.560
<v Speaker 2>We're at seven weeks and like I said with Paul,

1:04:10.640 --> 1:04:14.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it could be much longer. So if you

1:04:14.160 --> 1:04:17.560
<v Speaker 2>want to support the strike and the writers and quite frankly,

1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:22.280
<v Speaker 2>eventually the actors consider making a donation to the Entertainment

1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Community Fund. This helps support all types of entertainment workers

1:04:28.480 --> 1:04:32.960
<v Speaker 2>who are affected by the strike. Entertainment Community Fund look

1:04:33.000 --> 1:04:34.680
<v Speaker 2>it up and if you're not in a position to

1:04:34.720 --> 1:04:37.880
<v Speaker 2>donate right now, take a look at the WGA website

1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:41.480
<v Speaker 2>for more ways that you can help. Thank you for listening.

1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:45.200
<v Speaker 2>You know the crew well, They're very important to me

1:04:45.280 --> 1:04:48.160
<v Speaker 2>and I want to make sure they are supported as

1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:52.600
<v Speaker 2>much as we all can during this difficult time. Best

1:04:52.640 --> 1:04:56.280
<v Speaker 2>wishes to all of you. Stay safe out there and

1:04:56.360 --> 1:05:06.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll see you next week. Off the Beat is hosted

1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:11.040
<v Speaker 2>and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer,

1:05:11.240 --> 1:05:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers

1:05:15.280 --> 1:05:19.000
<v Speaker 2>are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent

1:05:19.080 --> 1:05:23.640
<v Speaker 2>producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Katz.

1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one

1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:29.360
<v Speaker 2>and Only Creed Bratton