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Speaker 1: Castle. Good. I'm Richie BALLSBA. I started Kiss one to

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Speaker 1: eight in Boston in nineteen seventy eight, the founder of

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Speaker 1: Pyramid Radio. I've been in the radio business, or was

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Speaker 1: in the radio business for a long time. I sold

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Speaker 1: my company in nineteen ninety six to what is now

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Speaker 1: Clear Channel, and I've been a gentleman of leisure and

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Speaker 1: I can't think of anything more fun to do than

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Speaker 1: to take a walk with Buzz and talk about radio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to taking a walk, an excursion to converse, connect

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Speaker 1: and catch up at a cool location with some of

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Speaker 1: the most interesting people you can find. Here's Buzz night,

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Speaker 1: Richie Balls. But it's so great to be here in Brookline,

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Speaker 1: mass to take a walk with you. So nice to

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Speaker 1: see you. Nice to see you too, Buzz. It's been

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Speaker 1: a while. I know we would run into each other

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Speaker 1: at probably industry events in Boston over the years. But

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Speaker 1: what are the real joys for me for the Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk series is there's people I know but I

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Speaker 1: don't know enough well enough, and being able to connect

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Speaker 1: and take a walk with old friends and make new

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Speaker 1: friends is really kind of exciting. So thanks you for

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Speaker 1: having me. Well, I'm glad to be here. I've actually

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Speaker 1: been trying to kind of get my story out in

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Speaker 1: a way. I've been in the middle of putting together

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Speaker 1: a television show with Mark Wahlberg, which has gone nowhere

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Speaker 1: fast just based on his schedule and my lack of

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Speaker 1: like pushing it. And I've written a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: and I really am much better at talking about things

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Speaker 1: than writing them down, because I'm certainly not a writer.

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Speaker 1: I'm a talker. Though you have built this tremendous legacy,

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Speaker 1: that's an amazing story. We know some of the same people.

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Speaker 1: I know some of the people who worked for you.

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Speaker 1: Everybody always when they talk about Ritchie, you bring a

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Speaker 1: smile to their face to this day, and you built

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Speaker 1: an amazing company in Pyramid. Tell me about culture. First

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Speaker 1: of all, when you thought of building Pyramid, Well, first

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Speaker 1: of all, you couldn't pay me a better compliment than

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Speaker 1: to say that I bring my neigh brings a small

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Speaker 1: people's faces, because that's what this business is all about

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Speaker 1: to me. And I mean that. I'm not just saying

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Speaker 1: that because it sounds like the right thing to say.

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Speaker 1: I mean that, as long as as long as my

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Speaker 1: legacy or what I'd leave behind in radio is that

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Speaker 1: I was somebody that people loved to work with, and

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Speaker 1: I made them happy and they enjoyed geting to work

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Speaker 1: every day. Then I did the right thing culture wise.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I started out as a radio

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Speaker 1: salesman for the night quality broadcasting stations Norman Knight Scott

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Speaker 1: Knight at little stations in Portsmouth, Rochester, Portsmouth, Manchester, New Hampshire, Fitchburgh,

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Speaker 1: Worcester and Fall River, man And you know, although they

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Speaker 1: were smaller markets, what we did is the Scott and

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Speaker 1: I had offices in Boston. We formed this this ring

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Speaker 1: around Boston thing where we sold against the Boston radio stations.

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Speaker 1: So I thought my radio stations that I worked for

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Speaker 1: were the biggest thing in the world. You know. Meanwhile

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Speaker 1: here we're selling against b Z and r KO and

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Speaker 1: the all the giants. And I never I just love

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Speaker 1: what I did. I loved radio so much. Never really,

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Speaker 1: I was always happy where I was. And all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, I started getting unsolicited calls from people about,

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Speaker 1: you know, being a sales manager general sales manager in Boston,

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Speaker 1: and I played with the idea, toyed with the idea.

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Speaker 1: I got opportunities to go to other markets, and then

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Speaker 1: I had this really strange phone call from a lawyer

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Named Jason Schrinsky, and he informed

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Speaker 1: me that he was the lawyer, the broadcasting lawyer for

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Speaker 1: Cecil Heftel, who's a Democratic Congressman from the great state

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Speaker 1: of Hawaii, and Cecil Leftel had just bought BCN in

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Speaker 1: Boston and had heard about me, and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: come up to talk to me about being the general manager. Now,

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Speaker 1: I had never been a sales manager of a big

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Speaker 1: radio station. I was working with a small group, and

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Speaker 1: it was kind of a leap going from being the

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Speaker 1: national sales manager of the Lake Quality Radio stations to

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Speaker 1: being a general manager of what was BCN. Well, I

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Speaker 1: took the interview. Jason Schrinsky came up from Washington on

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Speaker 1: the best of Cecil Heftel and interviewed me, and we

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Speaker 1: just hit it off. So he hired me. I think

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Speaker 1: a little prematurely because he hadn't even hired a president

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Speaker 1: of the broadcasting company. And lo and behold, I went

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Speaker 1: into Norman Knight and resigned and told him about my

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Speaker 1: great opportunity. And the deal fell through for BCN, So

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I was like up the creek

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Speaker 1: without a paddle, as they say. So I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what was going to happen. And next I said, what

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Speaker 1: did I do? I just gave up something I love

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Speaker 1: for an opportunity that didn't happen. Well, they told me

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Speaker 1: not to worry. They were going to buy another radio station.

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Speaker 1: Everything was going to be fine. And this may be

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Speaker 1: a long prelude to where to my culture, but there's

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Speaker 1: a reason for it. Met it to my madness. And

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Speaker 1: so then they called me and they were very excited.

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Speaker 1: They bought w r R, which also fell through. So

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Speaker 1: they said, not to worry, we're going to pay you.

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Speaker 1: You're going to be fine, and I get the phone call. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now we got the deal done. We just bought this

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Speaker 1: radio station in Medford, mass WWL. Now I lived in Boston.

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Speaker 1: I had never heard of it, which was which was

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Speaker 1: kind of a telltale sign. I was like, I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, my life's come to an end. I

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Speaker 1: went from this group of radio stations that were that

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Speaker 1: were prestigious to a radio station I never heard of

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Speaker 1: as the general manager. Boy, was this going to be

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Speaker 1: a screw up of major proportions. Anyway, As it turns out,

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Speaker 1: I then had the opportun I mean, I had this.

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Speaker 1: I was going to take over this radio station and

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Speaker 1: AMFM and Medford that basically was out of thirty four

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Speaker 1: radio stations in Boston. The FM was rated number thirty

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Speaker 1: three and the AM was like thirty four. The combined

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Speaker 1: share of the two of them was like about a

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Speaker 1: point four of one hundred percent of the market. And

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Speaker 1: the FM was beautiful music and the AM was a

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Speaker 1: simulcast of beautiful music. And it was you know, it

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Speaker 1: was in this this cement cinder block building in Medford.

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget the first time I went there as

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Speaker 1: the new general manager to visit it. It was horrifying,

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Speaker 1: and I said, well, I'm going to make the best

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Speaker 1: of it. The only the thing that really happened was

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Speaker 1: because of all the screw ups and because I had,

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Speaker 1: you know, put myself on the line, I was given

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Speaker 1: the ability to do with the radio station kind of

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Speaker 1: what I wanted. I mean, there's nowhere to go but up.

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Speaker 1: And I had in the in the meantime, had worked

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Speaker 1: with Scott Knight, and and Scott was just a wonderful

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Speaker 1: mentor and wonderful guy, and Norman Knight. And Norman was

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Speaker 1: like a slave driver, and you know, we had to

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Speaker 1: go in every Saturday, and we had to be in

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Speaker 1: before he got in at like he was in at

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Speaker 1: six thirty, so we had to be there at six.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of foolish, but you know, it was learning.

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Speaker 1: It was like the Marines, I guess, kind of like

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Speaker 1: boot camp. And what I really did is I learned

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Speaker 1: so much of what not to do from what he did,

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Speaker 1: from what Norman Knight did, and I basically took on

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Speaker 1: the personality of Scott Knight, who was just a great guy.

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Speaker 1: I decided that I was never going to treat people

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Speaker 1: like that. I was going to be more of a

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Speaker 1: person who was like a partner of theirs rather than

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Speaker 1: somebody that they worked for. So my main goal when

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Speaker 1: I was taking over this radio station in Medford was

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Speaker 1: to do something exciting and to hire people that were

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Speaker 1: really young and dynamic and kind of we're into the

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Speaker 1: same thing as I was. So, as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: I went into the station from my maiden voyage, my trip,

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Speaker 1: and at that time they had hired a president who

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Speaker 1: was not thrilled that I was already previously hired. He

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Speaker 1: couldn't hire his guy. But it was tough luck for

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Speaker 1: him because the deal was done. And so we went

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Speaker 1: in and we walked through and met the general manager

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Speaker 1: and at the different personnel and in this little office

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Speaker 1: in the back, little there's no windows. It was by

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Speaker 1: the engineering office, there was this guy and he was

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Speaker 1: sitting behind his little desk and it was Arnie Woo

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Speaker 1: Woo Ginsburg. And I mean, he, to me was like

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Speaker 1: an icon in Boston, you know, the Venture car Hop

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Speaker 1: everything else. I mean, Arnie is a brilliant guy. He

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Speaker 1: was a chief engineer, a general sales manager, a general manager.

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Speaker 1: He did everything in radio for RCAO. Never really got

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Speaker 1: great credit. But so when I saw him in there,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't being paid. They just let him have an office.

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Speaker 1: He was kind of like kicked to the curb in radio.

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Speaker 1: And so after we made the tour, I went back.

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Speaker 1: I said can I meet with you afterwards? And he

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Speaker 1: said sure, So no, And a little bit prior to that,

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Speaker 1: I had actually made one hire and went down to ILD.

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Speaker 1: We were on the third floor of the fourth floor

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Speaker 1: of the Sinesta building on Conwealth Avenue and ILD the

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Speaker 1: ILD was on the floor below and Sonny Joe White

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Speaker 1: was the young program director and I loved soul music.

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Speaker 1: I love black music, and so I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do a disco radio station. I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: something that was rhythmic and fun. And so I hired

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Speaker 1: Sonny basically before without even any you know, approval from

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Speaker 1: anybody else in the company. So Sonny was already on board.

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Speaker 1: I have this guy, Arnie Ginsburg. So I go and

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Speaker 1: to see Arnie and say, hey, Arnie, would you come

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Speaker 1: and work for me as my operations manager. I'm like

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old, thirty years old, I think it

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Speaker 1: was twenty nine. I've never run a radio station. You've

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Speaker 1: done everything. I mean, you can be my mentor, you

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Speaker 1: can be my right hand guy. And here's what I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of doing. And his eyes lit up. It was

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Speaker 1: really exciting. So the birth of what was going to

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Speaker 1: be the new radio station in Medford took hold that day,

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Speaker 1: all in a matter of that day. Pretty much. Well,

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Speaker 1: I knew before what I wanted to do when I

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Speaker 1: hired Sonny, but I kind of when Arnie, when I

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Speaker 1: got Arnie to to graciously come on board, to be excited, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't making any money. He was walking

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Speaker 1: and working in an office that was four sighted cinderblock.

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Speaker 1: I guess anything would have been a step up. But

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Speaker 1: but he he got very excited about it. He got

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Speaker 1: rejuvenated about his broadcasting. And so we had our little meta. Said,

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Speaker 1: what I want to do is I want I want

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Speaker 1: to do a disco radio station. And it was not

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Speaker 1: kind of near the end of disco or certainly near

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Speaker 1: the waning hours. And w BOS in Boston was a radio.

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Speaker 1: It was a powerhouse disco radio station. But they just

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Speaker 1: weren't that good. I didn't think. So I said, well,

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Speaker 1: here's the idea. The idea is to do disco, and

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Speaker 1: we're going and we'll kind of like blend it into

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Speaker 1: a top forty kind of thing. We'll kind of like

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Speaker 1: slowly blend it. Every they've got on board. Everybody got

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Speaker 1: on board with it, and I said, so Arnie and

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Speaker 1: Sonny I sat down. I said, look, we got to

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Speaker 1: come up with some great call letters. Well, Arnie found

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Speaker 1: w xks kiss, you know X for the kiss and

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. He found the call letters. Got to

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Speaker 1: give Arnie one hundred percent props for that. And so

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Speaker 1: when I went to Cecil left Tel and the guy

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Speaker 1: who was the president, Tom Hoyton told him, I, oh,

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Speaker 1: I had already hired a program director. I had hired

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Speaker 1: an operations manager. And by the way, I have new

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Speaker 1: call letters and here's what we're going to do. They

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Speaker 1: almost their heads blew off. Uh no research, Richie Right,

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Speaker 1: I just got total total gut got wow and what well,

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Speaker 1: So Mike I had. That's that was the culture that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to develop. Right there. You look at Sonny

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Speaker 1: Joe White, Arnie Ginsburg changing things without really getting any

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Speaker 1: approval from the from the ownership. That was the culture

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to have, kind of a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were never going to be a rebel

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Speaker 1: like BCN, you know. Those guys were like that. That

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Speaker 1: that's what they lived on. That was their reputation. But

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Speaker 1: I was going to do it in a different way, right,

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Speaker 1: more of a mainstream win. Yeah. So uh it was

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Speaker 1: kind of too late for Haftel or for Tom Hoyt,

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Speaker 1: or for anybody else to to you know, to go crazy.

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Speaker 1: So what they did is actually they hired u Kent

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Speaker 1: Burkhard you know from Burkhard Abrams to kind of hold

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Speaker 1: my hand, or so they thought, because they didn't they

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Speaker 1: thought I was just doing things that over my head. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was a non issue. I mean he didn't He

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Speaker 1: showed up and made his big, big, you know, consulting

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Speaker 1: feet from Haftel, but he really didn't help us with anything.

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Speaker 1: So so going forward it was Sonny, Joe White and

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Speaker 1: Arnie Ginsburg and I. We got the new call letters

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Speaker 1: to be a KS Kiss one O eight And so

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Speaker 1: I mean, this could be a story that lasts forever.

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Speaker 1: There's so many details of so many people that were involved.

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Speaker 1: But I had from my previous days. I had a

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Speaker 1: real good relationship, a very strong relationship with an advertising

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Speaker 1: guy named John Pearson Pearson MacDonald and he was a

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Speaker 1: creative whiz. He was this really creative guru, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I told him what we were doing and

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Speaker 1: he came up with this big black billboard with a

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Speaker 1: big red lips kiss and the commercial with the girl

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Speaker 1: who turned around and blew a kiss and the whole

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Speaker 1: thing and kiss went away, overnight was born. And in

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Speaker 1: all you know, I think I tend to over you know,

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Speaker 1: never never let a good lie lie get in the

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Speaker 1: way of a good story. But I think that it's

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Speaker 1: more of a fib I say, we went from being

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Speaker 1: thirty second, thirty fourth, you know, thirty third and thirty

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Speaker 1: fourth in the market to first overnight. It took about

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Speaker 1: six months, so it wasn't overnight, but basically kiss with

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Speaker 1: all we did just went through the roof. What an

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Speaker 1: amazing story. And thinking about the way businesses run and

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Speaker 1: throttlely radio is that you know, you need research, you

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Speaker 1: need lawyers, you need a corporate structure to sign off.

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Speaker 1: You walked in and sized it up and it took

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Speaker 1: on a momentum in a life of its own. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like, yeah, it did. I can't really say that

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Speaker 1: was brilliant. I think it was a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of timing and good luck to and you know,

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Speaker 1: things that had good fortune and the right people. But

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that happened. I made a deal,

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Speaker 1: you know, based on having really totally pissed off the

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Speaker 1: guy that owned the thing and the president that you know,

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Speaker 1: everything I did was based on revenues, and he had

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Speaker 1: some ideas of revenues and I took a very very

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Speaker 1: low salary, but I took big bonuses based on revenue.

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Speaker 1: Was that which he thought were just unattainable and I

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Speaker 1: blew him away. And actually the reason I was able

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Speaker 1: to buy Kiss is my first radio stations because he

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Speaker 1: owed me so much money from the from the bonuses

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Speaker 1: that I had accrued from my contract. He kind of

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Speaker 1: had no choice. He made me president of his company

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Speaker 1: at other radio stations, and then I wound up buying Kiss.

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Speaker 1: But that's a story that goes down the road. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so we went on the air. Sonny Joe White was

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Speaker 1: really the only personality in the morning show. We had

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Speaker 1: mixers and that these guys didn't even weren't even personalities.

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Speaker 1: They just would mix records. So it was disco during

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Speaker 1: the disco era. And then we gradually build a staff

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Speaker 1: and we were everywhere. The one thing that this guy

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Speaker 1: that owned the radio station, Cecil Heftel, did, he was

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Speaker 1: known as being this great promoter, and I was able

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Speaker 1: to get him to to give me a lot of

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Speaker 1: money to promote with. We gave a million dollars away

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Speaker 1: twice the first year, but now it was it was

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars a year for twenty years. It was

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Speaker 1: an annuity. So it was really like kind of a mirror,

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Speaker 1: you know, your job, because it wasn't really given away

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Speaker 1: a million bucks, but it sure sounded good on the air.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I remember twelve from that the

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Speaker 1: million dollars probably elsewhere, probably started here. Didn't why one

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Speaker 1: hundred in Miami that he had, but he you know,

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Speaker 1: but he he agreed to go along with that. It

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Speaker 1: was so successful and the radio station did so well,

301
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Speaker 1: and the revenues were just kicking that. You know, we

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Speaker 1: did it a second time, and then everybody in the market,

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Speaker 1: where the whole market was trying to react to what

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Speaker 1: we were doing, because our ratings went like through the roof,

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Speaker 1: they started giving away money and stuff. So when they

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Speaker 1: did that, then I gave away a couple of houses.

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Speaker 1: That was our next thing. We just kind of stayed

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Speaker 1: ahead of it, ahead of the flow. But was there

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Speaker 1: like a thing though, like, hey, we just did this

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Speaker 1: big promotion three weeks ago, next promotion, we have the

311
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Speaker 1: top ourselves? I mean, was that the attitude yes and no. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was always the attitude to try to do something

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Speaker 1: bigger and better. And basically, it's kind of funny, you've

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Speaker 1: segued this thing perfectly. It really kind of was the

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Speaker 1: reason that I created the Kiss Concert, which is now

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Speaker 1: basically the iHeartRadio Concert. After giving away you know, money

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Speaker 1: and houses and cars and all those things that everybody

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Speaker 1: else in the market following suit I kind of there

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Speaker 1: was like it was just everybody doing the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to come up with something. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do, something that money couldn't buy. So I

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Speaker 1: created this unbelievable you know party, a concert where you

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Speaker 1: brought basically Hollywood to Boston, and that was that was

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Speaker 1: the birth of the Kiss Concert. And it started out small,

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Speaker 1: started out at Boston, Boston, the nightclub on Lansdowne Street,

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Speaker 1: with the first four acts that I had when I

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Speaker 1: first put the radio station on the air, and I

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Speaker 1: had to actually beg people to come in from the

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Speaker 1: streets to go to this thing. The headliner was the Tramps,

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Speaker 1: Sister Sledge, Tasha Thomas who was in the Whiz, Sarah

331
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Speaker 1: Dash who was in LaBelle, and a group called Machine.

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Speaker 1: There but for the grace of God go I that song.

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Speaker 1: That was anyway, That was my big that was my

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Speaker 1: big lineup and obviously it's manifested itself into the biggest

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Speaker 1: show now even though I don't own it, it's still

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Speaker 1: an adjunct to that. Even when I left, when I

337
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Speaker 1: sold the company, it was the biggest show. We had

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Speaker 1: to have twenty five acts. Everybody from Arrowsmith to Prince

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Speaker 1: to Madonna, they all played. They played the Kiss Concert well.

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Speaker 1: And as somebody who came to the Boston market in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, okay, it was all anybody talked about

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Speaker 1: when the Kiss concert was was was happening. It was

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Speaker 1: the buzz of the market. It was the hottest ticket.

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Speaker 1: It was do you know someone over at Kiss can

345
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Speaker 1: you get you know, tickets? You know, I want to

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Speaker 1: go where my kids want to go. So it really

347
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Speaker 1: had this gargantuan and still does this gargantuan you know image.

348
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Speaker 1: How did you round up you know, the label community

349
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Speaker 1: to be so helpful And was there any but he

350
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Speaker 1: that ever came to mind that you just couldn't get

351
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Speaker 1: or you almost got, or you had to work hard

352
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Speaker 1: to get for a Kiss concert? Yeah? Almost everyone. I

353
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Speaker 1: mean the group says they got bigger. They did. They

354
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Speaker 1: didn't want to play a concert for nothing. That by

355
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Speaker 1: the way, I didn't pay the groups. You know, iHeartRadio.

356
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Speaker 1: Everybody else pays for these groups. They're basically tours. Now

357
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Speaker 1: what I did was I would basically you know, and

358
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Speaker 1: this is I guess it's borderline plugola. But it really

359
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 1: wasn't because basically it would be you know, I just say, look,

360
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Speaker 1: you know you if this group plays o are you

361
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Speaker 1: know Kiss is one of the most two or three

362
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Speaker 1: most important radio stations in the country for breaking music.

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Speaker 1: If they play the Kiss Concert, you got a pretty

364
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Speaker 1: good shot to get in the records played. You know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that that kind of a thing basically, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the rec companies would see the see that

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Speaker 1: working out. We had this guy, Jerry Brenner was the

368
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Speaker 1: independent promoter and he you know, obviously Kiss became a

369
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Speaker 1: big money maker for him as an independent, and so

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Speaker 1: he would work his end with the record companies. I

371
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 1: would work with the with the you know, I got

372
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Speaker 1: to know all the record label heads. I got to

373
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: know all the managers of the major groups. And you know,

374
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Speaker 1: it's interesting you had asked a question a little while

375
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: ago about doing something bigger and better. Well, the Kiss

376
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: Concert became that bigger and better thing, and nobody, nobody

377
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: could ever equal it because it was our thing that

378
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, these w rec companies in the art, we're

379
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Speaker 1: going to do it for another radio station. You know,

380
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 1: we created it. We did it for the Genesis funds.

381
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Speaker 1: There was a charity and they were they were they

382
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: became a part of it. So groups actually would call

383
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 1: me managers and say can we play the Kiss Concert?

384
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: Which was bizarre. I mean, one one notable was any Money.

385
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: He came up here himself and he went to Berkeley

386
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Speaker 1: and put together a band to play, and you know,

387
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 1: it just was one of those kind of things. But

388
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: that's what became bigger and better. So so during the

389
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 1: you know, the couple of months up to the Kiss concert,

390
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: and then I created the jingle Ball to do it

391
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: another time. But what would really worked was that nobody

392
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 1: could compete with that. You could give away whatever you

393
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: wanted to and nobody couldn't. You couldn't get tickets for

394
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 1: the Kis concert. And for everybody who was in the

395
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: the biz or associated, it was known as this five

396
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: star event that if you were invited inside the tent,

397
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 1: you just had the time of your life. And you know,

398
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 1: by the way I invited you know, Oedipus and Tony

399
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 1: Beardini and all those guys too, just just to watch them,

400
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: just to watch the look on their face. Yeah, but yeah,

401
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: it but it became really kind of an event. It

402
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: became a happening. It became a good charitable event. It

403
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: was something everybody looked forward to every year. Was anybody

404
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: obstinate and saying I can't play this thing? And did

405
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: you finally convince him? And who was it? Well? I

406
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: mean the greatest showdown I ever had. I could tell

407
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: you a million stories that great. Yeah, there's two. The

408
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: one one is the story about one that didn't happen,

409
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: and the other story about one that did. The first

410
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 1: one was I was out. I was out. I love

411
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: to play golf, and I was out at Pebble Beach

412
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: at this little golf mini golf tournament that a couple

413
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: guys had put together. I played every year. And I

414
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: had just convinced the guy who was a manager of

415
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: Uey Lewis, Bob Brown, to play the Kiss concert. And

416
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 1: I had just I think it's it's after Sonny Joe

417
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 1: White had left and Steve Rivers was the new program record.

418
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm kind of trying to get my timelines right. But

419
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: I was out there and I said, look, Steve, you

420
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: know Uey Lewis is going to play the concert. Bob

421
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: Brown is like after like for years of like fighting

422
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: to get him to do it, and you know, he

423
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: was huge then. So there got the record coming out,

424
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: so let's make sure that we put, you know, give

425
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: a consideration because you know he's doing this thing. I'm

426
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's because he knows he's got a record

427
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: coming out. And so I was out there and of

428
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 1: course Steve Rivers didn't play the record, didn't add the record,

429
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: and this guy called me and he yelled at me

430
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 1: and told me I was the I was the biggest

431
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: liar that ever lived. And you know, I wasn't a

432
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: man on my word, and he wasn't going to play

433
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: the concert. At that point, I had thirteen fourteen radio stations,

434
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: so I pulled his records on every one of the

435
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: radio stations. It was the monumental. I wouldn't play Julie

436
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: Lewis under any circumstances, although I should have, but it

437
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: was just one of those like personal vendetta things, because

438
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: right away I said it was my fault. I was

439
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: playing golf that and it didn't matter. But the one

440
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: that's my greatest story, I think that is my favorite

441
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: artist that I can listen to day and night is

442
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: Luther Vanros and Luther his voices, I mean, it's just ridiculous,

443
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, he can sing like an instrument,

444
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: plays like every instrument plays. And I, you know, wanted

445
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: Luther Vanros more than anything for the kiss concert. Now

446
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: it wasn't that he was a huge kiss you artist.

447
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: That was kind of for me for the Richie concert.

448
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: So Polly Anthony was the president of of Epic Records

449
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: and she was a very good friend of mine, and

450
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: she said, Richie, I would do anything for you. We

451
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: can't get Luther to do anything. He is he is,

452
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: actually he's he's a pain, and he has his entourage

453
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: around and we can ask him to do things and

454
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: he just says no, no, no, no no. I said, well, look,

455
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: I'll come to New York. Can you just get me

456
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: a fifteen minute, twenty minute meeting with him at coffee, cocktail, whatever,

457
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: just so I can meet him. That will appease me.

458
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: If he says to me, no, he can't do it,

459
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: all right, I won't bother you anymore. So anyway, she

460
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: calls me and she said, look, she said, Luther's going

461
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: to be in the office. I've convinced him to come

462
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: walk over the four seasons they were in fifty to

463
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: fifth and Madison four Seasons right there to block away.

464
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: I convinced he and his manager and his handler or

465
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: whatever it was, and me to come over and have

466
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: coffee with you at the Four Seasons. So I meet

467
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: Luther there, and Luther's got right away. He's got such attitude.

468
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: Luthor was very effeminate and very in his actions in

469
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: his life, and he had the kind of like he

470
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: would like, you know, make these gestures that were just

471
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: like putting you off like kind of thing. And you

472
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: could tell that he wanted to be there less than

473
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: he wanted to have his teeth drilled. And so he's

474
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: there and he's kind of listening. He's not even looking

475
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: at me, He's looking the other way, looking left and right.

476
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: And so I said, Luther, look, you're my favorite artists.

477
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: We play your music, we play everything. I've done, these

478
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: concerts I've had, you know, everybody listed the groups that

479
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: have played. I said, it's my goal to have Luther

480
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: Vandros play my Kiss concert. And I said, what would

481
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: it take for you to play the Kiss concert? And

482
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: he said, I'll play a Kiss concert if you get

483
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: the Boston Pops to be my backup band. Now, as

484
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: luck would have it, I had been to dinner with

485
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: Robin Brown, who was then the manager of the Four

486
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: Seasons in Boston, and we're very close friend of mine,

487
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: and he happened to be very close friends with Keith Lockhart.

488
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: And we had had a dinner at the hotel just

489
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: less than a month prior to that. Keith was there

490
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: and I hadn't met Keith before, but we were seated

491
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: next to each other. It was a small dinner, like

492
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: six or eight of us, and we were talking about

493
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: he knew everything out radio and about kiss and he was,

494
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: you know, he was very very charming and very engaging,

495
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: and so I was, you know, telling him. We were

496
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: having our conversation and he said, look, he said, you know,

497
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Richie said, I said, you've got to come to the concert.

498
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: He said, I'd love to. So he gave me his

499
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: number and everything else. So I'm sitting in the Four

500
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: Seasons and I'm thinking, huh, this is kind of interesting.

501
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: So I excuse myself for a moment, and I went

502
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: into the lobby and I called. I called Robin. I said, Robin,

503
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: do you think that if I called Keith? I told

504
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: him the story. He said, well, he gave you his number,

505
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: So I called him he got in the phone. So

506
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: I tell him what's going on, and he goes, when

507
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: is the date of it? And I tell him. He goes, well,

508
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: we'll do that. So I walked back to Luther with

509
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: the phone and I handed the phone and he looks

510
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: at me. It's Keith Lockhart saying that they'll play the

511
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Kiss concert. Luther couldn't couldn't not get out of it.

512
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: It cost me a gazillion dollars to have the Boston

513
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: Pops practicing in the ballroom. Of the four seasons, it

514
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: didn't matter. I beat Luther. It was the coolest thing

515
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: in the world. He never played in the concert. So

516
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: that was the best. That's the best story. That's the

517
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: best story. That's priceless. Yeah wow, but you know, and

518
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: and the concert was spectacular. Just as an adjunk. There's

519
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: two there's two PS's to the story. One is I

520
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: could actually tell more stories about artists and the things

521
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: with the Kiss concerts, not more, but as many as

522
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: I could about the radio days in terms of the people,

523
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: and boy do I have some stories about Sonny, Joe

524
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: White and all those characters that worked for me. They

525
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: were incredible. But the first story is that heat you

526
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 1: know he when he was in Boston, everybody stayed at

527
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: the Four Seasons. He would not stay where any of

528
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: the artists stayed. Now, mind we had like we had

529
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: bon Jovi, we had all these big artists, but Luther

530
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: was bigger than in his mind, was bigger than them.

531
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: Luther had just become Skinny Luthor. He had lost one

532
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: hundred pounds. He was always going up and down, which

533
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 1: may have contributed to his stroking out the whole thing,

534
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure that. But but he was skinny Luthor.

535
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: So we had a dinner planned at Sancy and Luther

536
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: was the BCRUP but he made him do this. Now

537
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: at this point, after all the kind of the things

538
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: we did for him, and he was staying at the Ritz,

539
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: at the Old Rits, and so we had the singa Sance.

540
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: We were a little bit late because getting everybody in organized,

541
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: and he was sitting there alone, very upset. And my daughter,

542
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: my little my little girl, Lauren was at that point,

543
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: I think twelve years old, and so he wound up

544
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: sitting next to her. She was really the only person

545
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: he would talk to. He didn't want anything to do

546
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: with us, and he wouldn't eat anything, and so the chef.

547
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: I had the chef come over at Billy Poorier, I'll

548
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: never forget. And he comes over. He says, Luther, I'll

549
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: make you like some fish with you know, like no butter,

550
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: I'll get me. We'll put it in whatever, and no, no, no,

551
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: I can't have that. I think he had some lettuce

552
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: or something. Anyway, but he and Lauren, my daughter, got

553
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: the kind of like hit it off. So he asked

554
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: Lauren to actually pick the wardrobe he had. He played

555
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: for forty minutes and he had four wardrobe changes. I

556
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: mean he put four different jackets. I mean, the guy

557
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. He would talk about a total diva. Oh

558
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: my god, he was unreal. So anyway, so my daughter basically,

559
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, he embraced Lauren and he was somewhat happy

560
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: doing the thing of the show was just spectacular. I

561
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: mean he sang five hits, four or five hits, and

562
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: he had a different glittery outfit on every time. It

563
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: was beautiful. But the thing that's kind of the ps

564
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: to the story is that he wouldn't eat, you know,

565
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't eat or wouldn't do anything. It was a different

566
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: hotel from everybody else. So I get the bill, and

567
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: the way that we worked was the record companies paid

568
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: for like the transportation and the airfare whatever, and I

569
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: paid for the hotels and you know, and the food

570
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: and the things that while they were in Boston, and

571
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: the transportation to and from the venue. Pretty sweet deal

572
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: for me, actually, when you think about it, since we

573
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: weren't paying the artists. And I got the bill from

574
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: the RITZ and I look at what the heck is

575
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: going on here? So I look and it's like I

576
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: knew what the room rate was, and it was just

577
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: like two or three times the room rate. I couldn't

578
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: understand it. So I asked for the backup, and I

579
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: got the backup, and lo and behold, he had had

580
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: like thirty Snickers bars, twenty walnuts. He ate everything but

581
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: the playing cards in the ice cream trice and the

582
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: ice cube trays from the from the hotel. It was unbelievable.

583
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he was then unfortunately I think I think

584
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: he was a closet eater. But he was and is

585
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: to me, the greatest singer. That's spectacular. But so that

586
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: I went off the radio key. But that but that

587
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: that kind of is a is a you know, from

588
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: the from the reason I did the Kiss concerts, and then,

589
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm sew into music and I got

590
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: to know all the record people, and I got to

591
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: know the artists so well. I just you know, I mean,

592
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: they became part for the audience, a part for me.

593
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: You know. I had groups like Katie Lang, Katie Lang,

594
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. She's sitting in her bus. She goes, well,

595
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: why did you want me? I said, because you you know,

596
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: you have, you have a hit. The song it's going

597
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: to be a hit, and we're going to play the

598
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: heck out of it because it's great. And she went

599
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: out and played and tore it up. And I saw

600
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: her at one of the Grammys years later and she

601
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: ran to me and hugged me. I mean, it was

602
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: kind of crazy because I made some really great relationships

603
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: from a lot of artists and some that weren't so great.

604
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: You know. So when deregulation hit the radio industry, that's

605
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: kind of when you've got out, is that. Yeah, Well

606
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: I had, you know, in the early nineties, I had

607
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: I had owned I owned stations in Boston, Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Charlotte,

608
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: and Chicago and Chicago was off balance sheet. It was

609
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: like another entity. And in the early nineties, the the

610
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: interest rates went way through, that went way up, and

611
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: although we were in compliance in terms of paying you know,

612
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: paying our interest in our debt service, they had they

613
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: changed their there are multiples of what you were your

614
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: debt to your debt ratio should be. And one of

615
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: the banks tried to get me to sell the Chicago

616
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: radio station, which I was not willing to do, to

617
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: become in compliance. And they were just flexing their strength.

618
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: They weren't. They weren't a bank that I had a

619
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: very bad relationship with. They were not like you know,

620
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: they have meetings with me, and I'd show up late

621
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: for the meetings. I just I didn't. I didn't like them,

622
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: and they didn't like me, and they and they showed

623
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: me by the fact that they kept squeezing for me

624
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: to do this. So what I did is I wound

625
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: up refinancing the companies to get them out of it.

626
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: And in refinancing the company, the way that what I

627
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: had to give up for the refinancing basically was a

628
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: it was a sliding scale. And what happened was then

629
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: deregulation happened, and I was going to have the ability

630
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: because I had this kind of big money company behind

631
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: me to go out and purchase a lot of radio stations.

632
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: But the way my deal and my management deal worked,

633
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 1: we were growing at a very slow rate while they

634
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: were growing like astronomically with the way that the way

635
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: the deal was structured. So I went to them and

636
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: I said, look, I know that you're excited about deregulation.

637
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: We could buy radio stations everywhere, we can double up everywhere,

638
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: triple up, but we have to change the deal because

639
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: we made a deal under different circumstances. They said, wow,

640
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: we can't change the deal. We have partners. I said, well,

641
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: then we're going to sell the company, and they go, well,

642
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: you can't sell the company. I said, well, read the agreement,

643
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I said, I specifically had that put in for something

644
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: like this. Well, they thought that they played chicken with me.

645
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: They thought I wouldn't ol and I did because I

646
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: wasn't going to work for them. I was going to

647
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: work for myself, and quite honestly, in retrospect, I think

648
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: that because of what deregulation did to radio, I'm kind

649
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: of glad that I got out, but I would have

650
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: loved to have seen as long as the playing field

651
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: was level with this group that I had behind me,

652
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: what we could have done. I think we could have

653
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: done a lot better than Claire Channel did. I hate

654
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: to say that, but true. Well, so you led into

655
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: where I was headed, which was any regrets, so you

656
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: were reading my book. I have regrets, of course. I mean,

657
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, I regret what I regret. I missed what

658
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: it was, but I don't think i'd miss what it

659
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: has become. Well, so as we're going to close here, Richie,

660
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: with taking a walk and talking, what advice would you

661
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: give to the current radio industry leadership, owners, et cetera

662
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: on how to navigate the times that they're in. I mean,

663
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: that is that's that's a sixty thousand dollars question. I

664
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: really don't know. I mean I got to tell you something.

665
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: I've had offers to be on boards and do different

666
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: things in consulting radio companies, and I've refused them, not

667
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: because I didn't like the idea of making some money,

668
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: but because I don't really think that I could give

669
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: a value added. The business that I was in was

670
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: much different than it is today today. It's all based

671
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: on research. You're right, it's basically, you know, everything is

672
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: research or in. I mean, if you can save money

673
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: and put a personality in twenty markets versus having the localization,

674
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: you're going to do it to save money because your

675
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: debt service is so high. I'm not a financial guy,

676
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to become one. I was an

677
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: entrepreneur and that's what I've always been and always will be.

678
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: And so it'd be hard for somebody who is not

679
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: a financial guy to give advice to the radio people

680
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: now because they're all really financial guys. I speak to

681
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: some of the people that work for me, and a

682
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: lot of them are still at Clear Channel and they're

683
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: still in really big, you know, big jobs, and they

684
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: lament about it all the time. It's it's a cash

685
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: twenty two. I mean, you can't really be creative. You

686
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: have to do a perfect example. I can end with this.

687
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: I think they had this situation at Clear Channel with

688
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: Matt Siegel where he basically quit over the Demi Levado

689
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: thing about him, her or whatever the heck it was.

690
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: And basically he was doing his stick, which is incredible.

691
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 1: He's a brilliant personality. He was doing what he does

692
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden word from above came that

693
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: he had to stop because they didn't want to touch

694
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: that area, and he went ballistic. And so he talked

695
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: to me about it, and I said, I think you're

696
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: absolutely right. I think they're wrong, you know, but do

697
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: you really want to quit over Demi Levado? I mean,

698
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, you know whatever I mean? Actually I didn't say.

699
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: I think his wife said that, but that's what I thought.

700
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: You know, you don't allow you tie one one of

701
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: somebody's hand behind him when you're telling them what to do.

702
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: You're telling them what to do, not ask them to

703
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: do what you want them to do. In other words,

704
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: if you have a goal, what I used to love

705
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: to do is just say here's the goal. Get it,

706
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: make make it, achieve it, get to it. Now they say,

707
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: here's what the goal is, and here's how you're going

708
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: to do it. And so for that reason, I don't

709
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: think I could really give much advice to anybody. I

710
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: really couldn't. You know. It's funny mel Brooks has a

711
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: book out auto biography. Well, I hope I live as

712
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: long as he is. I think you're going to because

713
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: of your spirit. But you know, mel Brooks talks in

714
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: the book throughout his career where this investor bookkeeper, you know,

715
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: manager would tell him, no, you can't do that, No

716
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: you don't do that, don't do that in blazing saddles,

717
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: and he would go okay, and then he would just

718
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: go do it. Well, that might be that might be

719
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: the legacy of Richie Bolsbrough, because that's what That's kind

720
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: of the way that I have been now, sometimes to

721
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: my detriment and sometimes you know, to the good. But

722
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it's a reverence. I

723
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: think it's just like self assurance. You know. I loved

724
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: the broadcasting the radio business more than any in the world.

725
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: I love the fact that you could be partners with

726
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: the record companies instead of being their adversaries. I love

727
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: the fact that I got to know the artists, know

728
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: the managers, know the company presidents, hang out with the

729
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: Clive Davises, and also hang out with the Steven Tylers,

730
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: and also hang out with the bankers. The bankers have

731
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: kind of separated themselves. They think they're too good for

732
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: the radar broadcasters now or the investment bankers. And quite

733
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: honestly that you know, I can't complain about how I

734
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: did in terms of selling my company. Would I wish

735
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: that it would, that the business wouldn't have deregulated as

736
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: it did and changed, Yes, because I would still be

737
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: in it, be into my deathbed probably, But it did,

738
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: and I have no controller with that. So here I

739
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: am walking and talking. This has been fantastic. It's amazing

740
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: to hear the insight and the behind the scenes. Having

741
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: competed against you for so many years and admired the work,

742
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful that we got to take a look.

743
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: You competed against me. Okay, hey, hey, just hand this

744
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: big shout out to Wendy at Loft sixty eight. I

745
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: love it. Thanks. Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available

746
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.