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Speaker 1: Welcome to Playing Dirty Sports Scandals with me, Jay Harris,

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Speaker 1: your guide through the often distasteful, but always addictive tales

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Speaker 1: of sports greatest tragedies, challenges and downfalls. We can't help ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Our brains are wired to crave the inside scoop on

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Speaker 1: scandal's people. As novelist Henry Fielding said, love and scandal

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Speaker 1: are the best sweeteners of tea. Hmm, true that, Henry,

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Speaker 1: true that. But let's face it, I'm over to you,

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Speaker 1: smaan myself. Over the past twenty years of my career

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Speaker 1: as a journalist and sportscaster, I've hosted a variety of

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Speaker 1: ESPN shows, from Sports Center to Outside the Lines.

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Speaker 2: But I'm playing Dirty.

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Speaker 1: My role is to take you outside the comfort zone

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Speaker 1: and behind the scenes of sports greatest scandals, ensuring that

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Speaker 1: you always have the fra vireo scoop. In this episode,

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Speaker 1: we're taking a deep dive into the separate but related

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Speaker 1: cases of MMA star turned alleged vigilante Kane Velasquez and

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Speaker 1: alleged child molester Harry Gallard. Now you may remember that

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Speaker 1: in our.

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Speaker 2: Last episode, I left you with a question.

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Speaker 1: I asked you if you thought that Kane Velasquez was

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Speaker 1: justified for playing dirty on February twenty eight, twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: when he allegedly pursued the Gallart family for eleven miles

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Speaker 1: in a high speed car chase, shooting at their Chevy

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Speaker 1: Silverado pickup truck with a forty caliber semi automatic handgun.

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Speaker 1: Given what you know now about the circumstances, do you

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Speaker 1: believe that Cain's behavior is justifiable? Today We're going to

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Speaker 1: dissect the treatment of Kane Velasquez and Harry Gallart by

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Speaker 1: our justice system by impacting three critical case components, Marci's Law, CTE,

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Speaker 1: and vigilanteism. Understanding these ingredients of the Caine Velasquez and

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Speaker 1: Harry Gillart cases are critical and they might a shift

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Speaker 1: your perspective of this whole scandal. Let's start with Marcy's Law.

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Speaker 1: Who is Marcy and what does she have to do

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Speaker 1: with Kane Velasquez.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Tragically, Marcy's Law was named after a real person, Marcy Nicholas,

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Speaker 1: who was a vibrant University of California Santa Barbara student.

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Speaker 1: Marcy was horrifically stalked and murdered by her ex boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: Carrie Michael Connolly in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievably, only one week.

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Speaker 1: After Marcy's murder, on the way home from her funeral service,

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Speaker 1: Marcy's family stopped at a shop to pick up a

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Speaker 1: loaf of bread. It was there in the checkout line

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Speaker 1: that Marcy's grieving mother, Marcella, was confronted by her daughter's murderer.

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Speaker 1: Marcella had received no notification from the judicial system, and

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Speaker 1: so she had no idea that Carrie had been released

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Speaker 1: on bail just days after brutally killing her daughter Marcy.

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Speaker 1: This experience of Marcy's family sounds shocking, I know, but

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Speaker 1: it actually wasn't uncommon for the suffering family members of

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Speaker 1: victims to endure these types of situations. That's because back

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, the courts and law enforcement had

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Speaker 1: no obligation to keep victim's families informed. Now, the Nicholas

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Speaker 1: family might have wound up as just another casualty of

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Speaker 1: the system, but fate had other plans. In nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 1: Marcy's brother, Henry Nicholas, co founded Broadcom in the spare

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Speaker 1: bedroom of his Redondo Beach condo. Henry and his partner,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Henry SAMUELI each invested five thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: of their own money into their startup. Seven years later,

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Speaker 1: BAM Broadcom became publicly traded and its name is now

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Speaker 1: recognized globally as a leading American semiconductor corporation. So, as

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Speaker 1: you might imagine, Henry Nicholas became very wealthy, like ranked

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Speaker 1: by Forbes as of January eighth, twenty twenty four, with

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Speaker 1: a net worth of ninezero point ninety seven billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Wealthy and for better or worse, with money tends to

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Speaker 1: come clout. Having lost his sister Marcy in such a tragic,

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Speaker 1: traumatic way in his early twenties, Henry Nicholas went on

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Speaker 1: to have a painful first hand experience with the parole process.

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Speaker 1: His sister Marcy's murderer, Carrie Michael Connolly, was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: life in prison with the possibility of parole after seventeen years.

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Speaker 1: Henry and his family found the parole hearings and ensuing

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Speaker 1: lack of communication from legal officials to be an outrageous

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Speaker 1: affront to their feelings and a breach of their perceived rights.

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Speaker 1: So Henry Nicholas used his clout to ensure that other

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Speaker 1: grieving families were not subjected to the same upsets and indignities.

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Speaker 1: He led and sponsored the Marcy's Law initiative in honor

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Speaker 1: of his sister, and after years of campaigning, it was

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Speaker 1: finally passed in California in November two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: twenty five years after Marcy's death, Proposition nine the California

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Speaker 1: Victims the Bill of Rights Act of two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: Marcia's Law became one of the strongest and most comprehensive

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Speaker 1: constitutional victims rights laws in the United States. Its purpose

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Speaker 1: is to ensure dignity, respect, and above all, fairness for

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Speaker 1: victims and the criminal justice process. Our justice system is

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Speaker 1: focused on the rights of the accused, and it's of

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Speaker 1: course critically important that accused rights are at the forefront

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Speaker 1: of our justice system, which revolves around the presumption of innocence,

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Speaker 1: which is the legal principle that every person accused of

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Speaker 1: any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty. But just

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Speaker 1: because the rights of the accused are enshrined in the

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Speaker 1: US Constitution doesn't mean that the rights of crime's victims

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Speaker 1: and their families aren't also important. They are, and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people affected by crime. Think about

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Speaker 1: it more than one point two three million people directly

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Speaker 1: experienced a violent crime in the United States last year,

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Speaker 1: according to Statista's December eighteen, twenty twenty three report. Those

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Speaker 1: people's family members are caught up in the fallout of

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Speaker 1: those crimes too, whether the victim died, was injured, or

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Speaker 1: was traumatized. Crime has a ripple effect that's incredibly painful,

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Speaker 1: and all of these millions of people grappling with grief

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Speaker 1: and rage deserve to have their voice heard. Take Stacy

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Speaker 1: Stevens experience as a microcosm of this far reaching issue.

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Speaker 1: When her father, Gary was killed during a home invasion,

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Speaker 1: she lost a loved one and had her entire world

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Speaker 1: turned upside down, especially when justice was not as swift

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Speaker 1: and effective as she'd expected. Stacy explained, people don't understand

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Speaker 1: the process that you have to go through, or the

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Speaker 1: terrible pieces on top of the crime that was committed

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Speaker 1: against your family member, to then have the entire system

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Speaker 1: feel like it's weighted against you, and then to protect

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Speaker 1: the rights of the people who did the crime, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm just sort of voiceless. Stacy explains the

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Speaker 1: problem pretty clearly. Right, if you're trying to cope with

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Speaker 1: the crime against the loved one. At the very least,

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Speaker 1: you deserve to know about everything that's happening in the

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Speaker 1: case as it makes its way through the justice system,

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Speaker 1: don't you. You should have a voice in your loved

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Speaker 1: one's case, and you should certainly be treated in a

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Speaker 1: respectful manner by the court. So that's what Marcy's Law

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Speaker 1: is supposed to guarantee for victim's families, dignified treatment and

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Speaker 1: the right to be notified, especially concerning the release or

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Speaker 1: escape of the accused. Now that you know the backstory

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Speaker 1: of Marcy's Law, you could appreciate that in the state

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Speaker 1: of California, the DA's office prosecuting Harry Gillart in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, fourteen years after Marcie's Law took effect, absolutely

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Speaker 1: had an undeniable legal responsibility to tell kan Velasquez and

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Speaker 1: his family about Harry Glart's release from jail. But they didn't.

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Speaker 2: What was their rationale?

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Speaker 1: You'd think that one member of staff could take a

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Speaker 1: few minutes to call or send an email to the

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Speaker 1: Velasquez family to follow the law the DA's office exists

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Speaker 1: to uphold. There are just no two ways about it.

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Speaker 1: The Santa Clara District Attorney's office violated the law by

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Speaker 1: not notifying Cain to Michelle Velasquez of Harry Gillart's release.

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Speaker 1: So now, what what was the Velaskaz family's recourse. Well, amazingly,

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Speaker 1: there really isn't any You can't unring a bell after all.

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Speaker 1: But you should keep the DA's breach of the Velasquez

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Speaker 1: family's legal rights in mind as we sink deeper into

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Speaker 1: this scandal, because the DA's negligence is certainly an ingredient

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Speaker 1: and the blend up to Caine Velasquae's alleged rampage on

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Speaker 1: the afternoon of February twenty eighth, twenty twenty two. Wronged

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Speaker 1: by Harry Gillard who had allegedly harmed his child, and

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Speaker 1: then wronged by the very DA's office that was part

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Speaker 1: of the justice system tasked with public protection. Cain's feeling

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Speaker 1: of powerlessness must have been compounded, and Cain was not

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Speaker 1: a man who was used to feeling powerless. Kine As

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Speaker 1: had been stripped of his son's innocence, one of his

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Speaker 1: legal rights, and his famous criminal defense attorney, Mark Garrigos

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Speaker 1: argued of his mental health at a pivotal bail hearing

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Speaker 1: for Kane Velasquez, which was packed with a sea of supporters,

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Speaker 1: including notable figures like UFC Heavyweight Champion Daniel Cormier, an

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Speaker 1: American Kickboxing Academy head coach Javier Mendez. Mark Geragos presented

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Speaker 1: a compelling case focusing on Caine's mental health. Specifically, the

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Speaker 1: defense was ready to highlight the potential role of traumatic

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Speaker 1: brain injuries and CTE conditions likely sustained by Cain during

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Speaker 1: his fighting career. Garrigos's argument was that these injuries might

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Speaker 1: have reduced Kine's mental ability, impairing his impulse control and

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Speaker 1: contributing to the alleged incident involving Harry Gallart and the

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Speaker 1: shooting of Gallart's stepfather, Paul Bender. Now we've discussed at

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Speaker 1: a high level what chronic traumatic encephalopathy, commonly known as

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Speaker 1: CTE is in previous episodes, but we need to dig

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Speaker 1: deeper here because ct is a core component of Kane

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Speaker 1: Velasque's defense strategy and potentially one of the triggers for

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Speaker 1: his alleged attack on the Gallard family. Stirred up with

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Speaker 1: his grief and rage over Little Kine's abuse and the

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Speaker 1: violation of his rights by the DA's office. Under Marci's Law,

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Speaker 1: adding CTE into the mix would certainly be explosive, so

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Speaker 1: let's talk about it. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy or CTE, is

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Speaker 1: caused by ongoing, long term and repetitive brain trauma and concussions.

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Speaker 1: The common symptoms of CTE include memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment,

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Speaker 1: impulse control, lack of impulse control, aggression, depression, suicidality, violence, parkinsonism,

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Speaker 1: and eventually progressive dementia.

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Speaker 2: CTE was discovered.

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Speaker 1: By doctor Bennettomalo, whose autopsy of former Hall of Fame

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Steelers center Mike Webster in two thousand and two

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Speaker 1: set the stage for a heated battle between science and

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Speaker 1: the sports industry. Doctor Amalu spent years trying to get

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Speaker 1: organizations like the NFL to acknowledge chronic traumatic encephalopathy as

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Speaker 1: a real and highly dangerous condition worthy of preventative measures.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you might already be familiar with the name

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Speaker 1: doctor Bennet Amalu because actor Will Smith played him in

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Speaker 1: a movie called Concussion. Told you CTE is a big

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Speaker 1: deal anyway, Doctor Amalo knew how hugely debilitating CTE could be.

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Speaker 1: Mike Webster's brain was a case in point. His autopsy

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Speaker 1: had revealed large accumulations of TAO protein, resulting in Mike

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Speaker 1: Webster's suffering for years with cognitive and intellectual impairment, destitution,

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Speaker 1: mood disorders, depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts. In Mike

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Speaker 1: Webster's townhouse in the Pittsburgh suburb of Moon Township, his

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Speaker 1: family had a sad tribute to what their patriarchs suffered

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Speaker 1: day after day living with CTE.

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Speaker 2: It's not a.

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Speaker 1: Trophy or a newspaper clipping about his triumphs on the gridiron. No,

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Speaker 1: it's a pile of torn sheets of paper from a

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Speaker 1: legal pad, page after page of heartbreaking gibberish penned by Mike.

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Speaker 1: Mike Webster's anguish was so raw as he wrote about

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Speaker 1: his mental state, which he described as deep, confusing, twisting,

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Speaker 1: fishing line, tangled up mess of confusing things go on

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Speaker 1: all the time. It's difficult to imagine anyone functioning, let

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Speaker 1: alone behaving rationally while in that headspace. Mike Webster's precipitous

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Speaker 1: decline with CTE was devastating for him, his fans, his teammates,

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Speaker 1: and his family. Remember how I said that crime creates ripples.

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Speaker 1: When we were talking about Marcy's law, well, illness can

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Speaker 1: have the same far reaching effect. There are ripples upon

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Speaker 1: ripples of tragedy linked to CTE. Since doctor Benetomalu's discovery

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and two and his ensuing awareness campaign,

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Speaker 1: there have now been several documented, notorious cases where professional

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Speaker 1: athletes have acted extremely violent with CTE, killing family members

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Speaker 1: or other people before committing suicide. From Philip Adams, a

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Speaker 1: journeyman NFL cornerback who shot and killed a prominent physician,

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Speaker 1: his wife, and two of their grandchildren, as well as

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Speaker 1: two workers at their home, before going back to his

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Speaker 1: own house to kill himself, to Aaron Hernandez of the

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Speaker 1: New England Patriots, who hung himself in his jail cell

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Speaker 1: at age twenty seven after being tied to multiple murders,

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Speaker 1: there's no doubt that CTE can severely impair people's behavior.

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Speaker 1: Another famous and heartbreaking example is that of NFL legend

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Speaker 1: Junior Seau. He was a wildly successful player for the

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Speaker 1: San Diego Chargers as they were known then, but he

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Speaker 1: committed suicide at the age of forty three. Seau shot

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Speaker 1: himself in the chest and his grief stricken family decided

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Speaker 1: to have his brain analyzed. Sure enough, Junior Sal's autopsy

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Speaker 1: also confirmed CTE.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you're.

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Speaker 1: Probably thinking that CTE is a slam duct defense for

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Speaker 1: Mark Arrogos to use to gain Kane Velaska's conditional release.

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Speaker 1: Right he needs medical help, not jail time. Isn't a

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Speaker 1: totally out of left field argument. Surely the information and

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Speaker 1: circumstances certainly seem to track. But see, this is one

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Speaker 1: of the problems with CTE as a condition and as

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Speaker 1: a defense. It can only be firmly diagnosed after a

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Speaker 1: person's death. Doctors have to conduct an autopsy to look

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Speaker 1: for signs of brain tissue degeneration and a build up

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Speaker 1: of abnormal TAUL proteins. Doctor Matthew Lorenz, a co director

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Speaker 1: of the Sports Neurology Clinic and a professor at the

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Speaker 1: University of Michigan, explains that CTE is not a clinical diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: There are no MRI or ct scans that doctors can order.

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Speaker 1: There is no current way to diagnose CTE in a

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Speaker 1: living person.

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Speaker 2: Despite what you might hear.

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Speaker 1: This means that medical professionals they strongly believe that someone

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Speaker 1: has CTE based on their behavior, but they can't prove

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Speaker 1: it until the person has actually died. This fact alone

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Speaker 1: makes CTE a complex and somewhat mysterious factor in understanding

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Speaker 1: the actions of athletes like Philip Adams, Aaron Hernandez, Junior Sel,

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Speaker 1: and quite potentially Kane Velasquez.

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Speaker 2: After all, many.

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Speaker 1: Athletes endure brain trauma without violent outbursts. According to the

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Speaker 1: American Association of Neurological Surgeons, twenty percent of all high

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Speaker 1: school players and ten percent of all college players sustained

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Speaker 1: brain injuries. This means that most athletes, even those with

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Speaker 1: brain trauma, do not become violent, and modern medicine still

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Speaker 1: can't explain exactly why repetitive brain trauma impacts some people

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Speaker 1: to such an extreme damaging degree and not others. So

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Speaker 1: it's complicated to understand what might drive a person to

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Speaker 1: act violently, especially someone known for being peaceful outside the

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Speaker 1: ring like Kane Velasquez. The Playing Dirty podcast reached out

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Speaker 1: to criminal profilo Jim Clemente, who spent his career with

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Speaker 1: the FBI analyzing the criminal behavior of many violent offenders.

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Speaker 2: His insights are illuminating.

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Speaker 1: Particularly when considering the potential role of chronic traumatic encephalopathy

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Speaker 1: or CTE.

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Speaker 2: In Kine's behavior.

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Speaker 1: The way Jim tells people to think about it is

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Speaker 1: that the frontal lobe of our brain typically acts as

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Speaker 1: a sort of policeman in our minds. It's this area

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Speaker 1: of the brain that monitors and restrains our actions, especially

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Speaker 1: when it comes to violent thoughts or impulses. Most people

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Speaker 1: have a well functioning policeman which keeps these impulses in check.

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Speaker 1: But when this policeman is compromised due to conditions like

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Speaker 1: CTE or other forms of traumatic brain injury that affect

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Speaker 1: the frontal lobe, a person's ability to regulate these impulses

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Speaker 1: can be severely diminished. This may lead to acting out

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Speaker 1: in ways that are out of character, including extreme violent,

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Speaker 1: even for individuals who are typically described as friendly and loving.

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Speaker 1: Retired FBI PROFILEOGE Implemente emphasized that it's not at all

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Speaker 1: unusual for people to have violent thoughts. What's key is

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Speaker 1: our capacity to control and not act on them. But

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Speaker 1: with the impairment of the frontal lobe, as can occur

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Speaker 1: in cases of CTE, this control can be weakened or

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Speaker 1: even lost entirely, and when this happens, a person might

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Speaker 1: react extremely in situations where they normally wouldn't. The probability

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Speaker 1: of this happening can be exacerbated further by an unusually

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Speaker 1: stressful moment, something out of the ordinary, something like finding

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Speaker 1: out that your four year old son has been sexually

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Speaker 1: abused and the district attorney's office failed to notify you

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Speaker 1: of his alleged abusers released from jail. CTE was a

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Speaker 1: sensible strategy from Mark Geragos to deploy on behalf of

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Speaker 1: his client, Kane Velasquez. The courtroom was packed with his

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Speaker 1: client supporters, friends from both inside and outside the MMA

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Speaker 1: war world. All of them were expressing to the press

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Speaker 1: and to the court that violent behavior beyond the octagon

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Speaker 1: was definitely out of character for Kin. Social media was

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Speaker 1: also alike with the free Caine hashtag. The Free Kane

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Speaker 1: movement in and of itself is a testament to Kane

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Speaker 1: Velasqua's typical upstanding behavior. His supporters really look up to him.

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Speaker 1: Caine's work in the community, particularly with kids, has made

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Speaker 1: him a hero to many. He's known for his dedication

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Speaker 1: to uplifting young lives, not putting them in danger with

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Speaker 1: high speed car chases and gunfire. The violence Kine allegedly

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Speaker 1: displayed just doesn't jive for his supporters, who claim that

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Speaker 1: he is worshiped as a hero south of the border

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Speaker 1: in Mexico, where his roots are. One of our sources

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Speaker 1: even recounted the story of a woman there who asked

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Speaker 1: Kine to touch her child's head, as if in a

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Speaker 1: blessing of some kind. Kine also made appearances at schools

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Speaker 1: throughout the US two reading to the kids and telling

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Speaker 1: them how important college and wrestling had been to his success,

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Speaker 1: trying to inspire them to get an education and follow

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Speaker 1: their dreams. It was undeniable. The Free Kine movement was

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Speaker 1: a passionate and compelling testament to Kane Velasquez's character and

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Speaker 1: doing his defense team's effort at the very least in

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Speaker 1: the court of public opinion. American mixed martial artist Ron

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Speaker 1: Wynn made a beautiful post online in support of his

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Speaker 1: friend that summed up the character portrait of the defense.

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Speaker 2: Aimed to paint.

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Speaker 1: I stand by Kane and his family in these hard times.

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Speaker 1: He is one of the most selfless, genuine people I've

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Speaker 1: ever had the pleasure to know.

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Speaker 2: On a personal level.

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Speaker 1: I almost can't put into words how amazing of a

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Speaker 1: guy he is. He lives a good life. The truth

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Speaker 1: will come to light. But what was the truth in

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Speaker 1: this situation? Even though the piece is added up? An

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Speaker 1: inability to definitively diagnose CTE made for a challenging defense,

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Speaker 1: no matter how much Kine supporters insisted that has alleged

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Speaker 1: violent public out burst had been a one off. And

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Speaker 1: even if Kane's defense attorney, Mark Garragos was able to

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Speaker 1: convince the court that his client suffered from CTE, that

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Speaker 1: behavioral insight wouldn't necessarily excuse or justify the actions as

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Speaker 1: client stood accused of. It would only offer a potential

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Speaker 1: explanation for the drastic shift in his behavior and perhaps

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Speaker 1: sway the judge towards a more lenient sentence. So how

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Speaker 1: did Mark Garrogos and the rest of Kane Velaska's defense

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Speaker 1: team fair well at this hearing? Judge Schelina Brown did

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Speaker 1: acknowledge the defense's argument about traumatic brain injuries and specifically CTE,

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Speaker 1: noting its potential role in Kane Velaska's actions. This acknowledgement

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Speaker 1: felt like it was moving in the right direction for Kane,

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Speaker 1: so Mark Garagos pushed forward, pulling out all the stops

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Speaker 1: to get his client released on bail. He laid out

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Speaker 1: specific bail terms, including a staggering one million dollars bail,

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Speaker 1: electronic monitoring, relocation to an out of state inpatient facility,

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Speaker 1: and constant super The defense even offered for Cain to

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Speaker 1: pay for all of this himself. You see, there are

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Speaker 1: cases in which an accused person hires effectively guards to

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Speaker 1: keep himself under surveillance or supervision to get out of

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Speaker 1: jail on bond is essentially self imposed home confinement with

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Speaker 1: some security presence like retired cops. But despite Mark Garrog

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Speaker 1: was arguing how the DA's breach of Marcy's Law and

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Speaker 1: probable CTE were important contributing triggering factors in what it

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Speaker 1: allegedly happened, the Santa Clara County DA's office, represented by

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Speaker 1: Aaron French, wasn't backing down. The prosecution argued that no

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Speaker 1: bail terms could mitigate the risk to kane Velasque's alleged victims,

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Speaker 1: Harry Gallart, his mother Patricia Gallard, and his stepfather Paul Bender.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor Aaron French's stance echoed the DA's office's earlier arguments,

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Speaker 1: but with a new dramatic addition. A statement from Paul Bender,

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Speaker 1: the man Caine Velasquez allegedly shot via video call.

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Speaker 2: Paul Bender's words.

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Speaker 1: Cut through the courtroom said, good morning, your honor. My

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Speaker 1: name is Paul Bender. I am the person who is

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Speaker 1: driving the truck and the person shot by kane Velasquez.

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Speaker 1: On February twenty eight, twenty twenty two, we were simply

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Speaker 1: following a court order to get a GPS monitoring device

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Speaker 1: for Harry when kane Velaskaz started following us.

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Speaker 2: He shot at us.

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Speaker 1: And chased us at speeds over one hundred miles an hour.

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Speaker 1: When we came to a stop near a school, kane

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Speaker 1: Velasquez shot at us again, severing my brachial artery and nerve.

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Speaker 1: I have lost the use of three fingers and can

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Speaker 1: no longer work because I could not pass my department

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Speaker 1: under transportation physical without the use of my right hand.

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Speaker 1: We do not know if this loss is permanent. Kane

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Speaker 1: Velasquez has no respect for human life. He could have

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Speaker 1: easily shot the family in the car next to us,

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Speaker 1: innocent pedestrians, or even young children. Kane Velaskaez does not

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Speaker 1: care who sees him do this. He does not care

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Speaker 1: about the rule of law and has no respect for

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Speaker 1: our judicial system. If given the opportunity, I believe he

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Speaker 1: will try to finish what he started. I am fearful

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Speaker 1: for my life as well as for the lives of

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Speaker 1: my family. No amount of bail or GPS monitor will

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Speaker 1: stop Kane Velasquez. Respectfully, your honor, I ask that you

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Speaker 1: please help keep my family safe in our community, safe

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Speaker 1: from Kane Velasquez and deny his request for bail. While

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Speaker 1: most in the courtroom we're there to support Kine and

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Speaker 1: whether the judge had seemed to recognize the defense his

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Speaker 1: team's victims' rights and CTE arguments, at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, her role was to interpret and uphold the law.

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Speaker 1: So when Kane Velasquez, the former UFC heavyweight Champion, stood

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Speaker 1: before Judge Selina Brown anxiously awaiting her verdict on his

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Speaker 1: request for bail, he was likely to be destined for disappointment.

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Speaker 1: Why you ask, well, one big reason really vigilanteism. It's

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Speaker 1: perhaps the most controversial component of this scandal and the

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Speaker 1: most damning for Kane Velasquez. Vigilanteism is illegal, regardless of

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Speaker 1: the intention behind it. No state or federal jurisdiction offers

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Speaker 1: any kind of vigilante defense to criminal prosecution. So Judge

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Speaker 1: Chelina Brown denied the bear request in the attempted murder

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Speaker 1: case against Kane Velasquez, keeping him behind bars, despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that the man who had allegedly molested his child

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Speaker 1: had been released. To many people, this determination seemed ironic

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Speaker 1: and cruel, but arguably the judge was upholding an important

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Speaker 1: legal precedent that vigilanteism is never acceptable under any circumstances.

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Speaker 1: She noted that, in her view, Kane Velasquez was too

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Speaker 1: great a risk to release, not just to the Galart trio,

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Speaker 1: but also to the Santa Clara community at large. Judge

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Speaker 1: Brown's ruling marked a significant turn in the Kane Velasquez

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Speaker 1: and Harry Glart saga, leaving the MMA world in Caine's

405
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: supporters reeling. It's a moment that feels like the final

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00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: bell of a fight, except this time there's no clear winner,

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Speaker 1: just a lingering sense of uncertainty, unrest, and a growing

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Speaker 1: upset with the judicial system. And when you blend uncertainty, unrest,

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Speaker 1: and upset altogether, more often than not, it's a recipe

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Speaker 1: for disaster. The fresh disaster brewing in the case broke

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Speaker 1: on local news media with great fanfare one of the

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Speaker 1: kane velasqa'z judges unnamed had requested more security, saying that

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Speaker 1: they were fearful of Caine's fervent supporters. I'm not surprised

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Speaker 1: at all, Mark Garcia, who provides executive security services, told NBC.

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Speaker 1: Garcia explained to reporter Damian Trejuil that security for a

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Speaker 1: judge in a case like Canes could range from extra

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Speaker 1: patrols around their home to around the clock armed guards. Now,

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Speaker 1: despite the press not releasing the name of the judge,

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Speaker 1: we can reasonably surmise that it was Judge Selina Brown.

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Speaker 1: After all, at this time, she was really the only

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Speaker 1: judge actively engaged on the kane Velasquez case. So while

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Speaker 1: we can't know for sure that Judge Selena Brown requested

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Speaker 1: heightened personal security, in all likelihood it was her. And

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Speaker 1: if it was Judge Shelena Brown who felt under threat,

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Speaker 1: that begs the question could she really have been impartial

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Speaker 1: in considering kane Velasque's motion for release. Isn't that sort

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Speaker 1: of like an NFL ref betting on one of the

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Speaker 1: teams they're reffing for. I mean, a ref really can't

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00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: be impartial if they have an interest in the outcome.

430
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: That's actually why refs aren't allowed to bet on the games. So,

431
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: following that logic, what was going on with impartiality in

432
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: the Kane Velasquez case. Was the justice system functioning at

433
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: a reasonable level given this latest bombshell. On the one hand,

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00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Judge Selena Brown's decision to deny bail and keep Kane

435
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: in jail could be seen as standard procedure given the

436
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: gravity of the charges against him. But on the other hand,

437
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: feeling threatened by Caine's supporters arguably shifted her decision making

438
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: from a legal judgment to a personal one. And if

439
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: this was true, then much like the DA's office, the

440
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: judge had played dirty two. After all, it's hard to

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00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: believe that a judge could set great feelings of personal

442
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: fear totally from the decision making process in Kine's case, right,

443
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: the whole situation cut right to the heart of judicial impartiality,

444
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: which is the principle of justice that requires judges to

445
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: be fair and objective in their decisions. The Kane Velaskaz

446
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: case had devolved into a complex cocktail of legal ethics,

447
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: personal safety, and public perception. It's a scenario that challenges

448
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: many people's confidence in our justice system's ability to remain unbiased,

449
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: especially when the players involved in upholding the law.

450
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: Feel personally threatened.

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00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: At this stage of the scandal, it seemed like two

452
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: different standards were clearly at play in the Santa Clara

453
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: County Court. After all, who in our society is more

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00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: vulnerable than children? Yet alleged child abuser Harry Gallart was

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00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: released on an O R bond after just two days

456
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: in jail. Harry certainly didn't offer to pay for security

457
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: to monitor him, and the judge still allowed him to

458
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: work in the community. Kane guests did offer to pay

459
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: to stay either at home with a monitoring device and

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00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: private security, or at an inpatient treatment facility in an

461
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: entirely different state, Yet.

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00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: He was denied bail and kept behind bars.

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00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: Two very different disparate decisions had been handed down, and

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00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: the reasoning for a lot of people felt muddled. Okay,

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00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: let's clear our palates and then view Kane Velaska as

466
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: alleged vigilanteism through the lens of the court's behavior or misbehavior,

467
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: depending on your perspective. There's a compelling case for judicial

468
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: prejudice on the table at this point, and an alleged

469
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: child molester is back on the streets thanks to the

470
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: court's decisions, which brings us back to the question from

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00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: our last episode. Is vigilanteism ever justified? It's a controversial

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00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: subject with a storied history in the United States, and

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00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: Kane of Alaskaz certainly isn't the first to be accused

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00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: of exercising vigilanteism. There are some notorious cases that captured

475
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: the public's attention long befo Cain took the actions that

476
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: landed him in handcuffs. First, there's the case of Bernard

477
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: Gets in nineteen eighty four, dubbed the Subway Vigilante. Gets

478
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: shot four men on a New York City subway train,

479
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: claiming self defense during an attempted robbery. One of the

480
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: young men he shot in the scuffle suffered serious injuries

481
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: and brain damage. Gets His actions sparked a national debate

482
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: about self defense and urban crime, and that debate continues

483
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: to resonate today. Can we rely on the police as

484
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: well as the justice system to impartially protect us and

485
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: our families. Interestingly, a jury acquitted Gets of all charges

486
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: except carrying an unlicensed gun, so they clearly believed his story.

487
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Although the controversy ignited by gets his vigilanteism has raged on,

488
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: particularly given the race issues in that case. All the

489
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: young men involved were black, while Gets is white. Ellie

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00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: Nessler's case is another one that resonates deeply when debating vigilantiism.

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00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety three, in a small northern California town,

492
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: Nesler faced a horrifying reality, not unlike the Velasquez family situation.

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00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: Her young son Willie, had been sexually abused by Daniel Driver,

494
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: a man with a history of such offenses. The case

495
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: took a dramatic and tragic turn in the Jamestown Justice

496
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: Court during the accused preliminary hearing. Ellie Nesler, driven by

497
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: a mother's desperation and a deep sense of injustice, shot

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00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: and killed Daniel Driver right there in the courtroom by

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00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: shooting him five times in the head. This act of

500
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: vigilante justice sent shockwaves across the country, igniting debates about

501
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: the legal system, the handling of sexual abuse cases, and

502
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: the links to which a parent might or should go

503
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: to protect their child. Ellie Nesler defended her action to

504
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: the police, saying, maybe I'm not God, but I tell

505
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: you what I'm the closest damn thing to it for

506
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: all the other little boys. Public reaction Tonsler's action was

507
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: deeply divided. Many empathized with her, seeing her as a

508
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: mother who was failed by the system and felt she

509
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: had no other recourse. Others viewed her action as a

510
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: dangerous precedent, a threat to the rule of law and order.

511
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: This case certainly carries strong similarities to the kane Velaskaz scandal,

512
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: but probably the most famous vigilante justice case of all

513
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: involved Gary Plochet. This case is a seminal example of

514
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: vigilante justice and one that sparked intense debate across America.

515
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, the very same year that subway

516
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: vigilante Bernard Getz was in the public eye, Gary Plochet

517
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: shot and killed Jeffrey Ducett, who had kidnapped and molested

518
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: his son. The shooting occurred at an airport and was

519
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: captured on camera by a news crew, with Plochet uttering

520
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: the words, if I had to do it over again,

521
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: I'd kill him again. Gary Plochet pleaded guilty to the killing,

522
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: but the judge, who clearly had a very different attitude

523
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: than kane Velaska's judge, sentenced Gary to probation, noting it

524
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: was unlikely that he'd commit another crime and it suffered enough.

525
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: Gary Plochet's action, which so closely mirrors the behaviors of

526
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Ellie Nessler and Kane Velasquez, bring us face to face

527
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: with complex questions about justice, retribution, and the protective instinctive parents.

528
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: The public's response to Gary Plochet's vigilante behavior in sentencing

529
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: was divided, much as we see today with Kane Velaskiez case.

530
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: Gary Plochet's remarkably lenient sentence seven years of probation and

531
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: three hundred hours of community service sparked a wide array

532
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: of reactions. For some, it was seen as a just

533
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: outcome considering the circumstances under which Plochet acted.

534
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: For others, it.

535
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: Raised questions about the consistency and fairness of the justice system.

536
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: How many murderers with guilt so firmly proven via video

537
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: and a confession get probation. When we look at Kane

538
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: Velasquez's and Gary Plochet's cases side by side, there are

539
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: clear parallels, but also stark differences. Like Gary Ploche kine

540
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: as a father accused of taking extreme actions in response

541
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: to harm and inflicted on his child. However, experts agree

542
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: that Kine faces potentially much more severe consequences, including prison

543
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: time of twenty years to life, even though he didn't

544
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: actually kill anyone, if he's ultimately convicted. This brings us

545
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: back to the question of vigilante justice and how it's

546
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: treated by the legal system. While both Kane Velasquaz and

547
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: Gary Ploche acted out of a desire to protect their children,

548
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: the outcomes and treatment by the justice system appear to

549
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: be on completely different trajectories. Could the differences in their

550
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: professional backgrounds, public perception, or other factors be responsible for

551
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: impacting legal outcomes. Gary Plochet, a regular citizen, received a

552
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: sentence that some might view as a slap on the wrist,

553
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: whereas Kane Velasquez, a famous MMA fighter, is facing the

554
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: possibility of a much harsher penalty. These comparisons force us

555
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: to confront uncomfortable questions about equality and justice in the

556
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: United States. They make us wonder whether the scales of

557
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: justice weigh the same for everyone, or if they tip

558
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: depending on who you are, what you've done, and how

559
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: you're perceived in the court of public opinion. The line

560
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: between a hero and a vigilante is blurred. Kane Velaska's case,

561
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: like those before him, forces us to confront our own

562
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: values and beliefs about justice, protection and when, if ever,

563
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: it's acceptable and justifiable to take the law into our

564
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: own hands. Thank you for joining me your host, Jay Harris,

565
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: in drinking up this complex, bitter blend of legal dilemmas

566
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: and moral quandaries. Join me next time on Playing Dirty

567
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: Sports Scandals to find out how the Kane Velaskaz scandal

568
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: shakes out. Playing Dirty Sports Scandals is a production of

569
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: Dan Patrick Productions, Never Ever Productions and Workhouse Media from

570
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: executive producers Dan Patrick, Paul Anderson, Nick Panella, Maya Glickman,

571
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Clary. Hosted by Jay Harris, Written and produced

572
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: by Jen Brown, Francie Haiks, Maya Glickman, and Jennifer Clary,