1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 2: A few nights ago, we gave a party at home 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 2: for Graydon Carter, celebrating the publication of his memoir. When 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 2: the going was good, It's not the easiest thing to 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: give a toast about someone you love to people who 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 2: love him. 7 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 3: And this is what I said. 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: Looking at all the work Graydon has done over the years, 9 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: I wonder what it would be like to be one 10 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: of his creations. Where I Spy Magazine, I'd be fearless 11 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: and funny, ahead of my time, radical and brave. Were 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: I Vanity Fair, I'd be glamorous and erudite, with the 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: best writers photographers cover to cover. Say I was his restaurant, 14 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: the Waverley Inn, I'd be delicious, nestled in a beautiful 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: corner of Greenwich Village and the place everybody wants to 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: go to. As hermel, I would fly through the air 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: every week telling everyone what they needed to know. And 18 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: were I one of his five children or his beautiful 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: wife Anna, I'd know what it feels like to be 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: the focus of Graydon's life. As for the newly published memoir, 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: I'd be unput downable and number five on the New 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: York Times bestseller list. But I trade any of these 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: just to be Graydon's friend. 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: And that is what I am. 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: That is so sweet. It was sweet the other night. 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: That's sweet. 27 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 3: Name it twice. That was a good party. 28 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: It was a wonderful time. You like it. 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 4: It was just fun and it was cozy and glamorous 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 4: and a lot of friends, and it encouraged me on 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 4: my wife's quest to possibly resettle here. 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you like me. You like me. 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 4: I guess I like being a host. Batter me too, 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 4: because I'm sort of in the service business. 35 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: Who have your. 36 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: Friends cooked really well? Do you have a friend that 37 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: you know if you're going to their house really really well? 38 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 4: Bette Miller's husband, Martin is a wonderful cut I mean 39 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 4: that world class. And my son Spike, who lives here 40 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: in London. They and his wife Pip, they spent a 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 4: lot a lot of the pandemic with us and we 42 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 4: ate so well. They're great chefs. But most of my 43 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 4: friends don't cook. It's just a it's not a generational 44 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 4: thing for me. 45 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: For men. Yeah, I think James Fox cooks, well, what 46 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: is it? 47 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not surprised. But mostly if you meet your friends, 48 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: you do out for dinner. 49 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 4: No, well, they can either come over or Yeah, we 50 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 4: go out to dinner a lot, and we go to 51 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 4: the Waverley and Waverley. 52 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Waverley. So you did that, be fair, 53 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: you've done spy. But you know why a restaurant? 54 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 3: Why why? 55 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 4: It was two doors down from our house in the 56 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 4: village and I was having dinner and there was a 57 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 4: for sale sign up on it. It had been around 58 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 4: since the nineteen twenties. So I was out to dinner 59 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 4: at Lane's one night with his friend Roberto Benabee, who 60 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 4: lived right around the corner from the Waverley, and we 61 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 4: were drinking and I said it's for sale, and we thought, 62 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 4: let's buy it, and so we did. 63 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: And we brought in partners. 64 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: Who would actually run restaurants, because neither was I'd never 65 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 4: been in a restaurant kitchen before. 66 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: But we redid it. And I wanted in those days. 67 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 3: What you want? 68 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 4: What was your one of those days, all the restaurants 69 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 4: were like Italian, and we wanted America. 70 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: This is nineteen it was twenty years two thousand and four. 71 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, we wanted Red Bank cats, red leather bank cats, 72 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 4: good lighting, really soft good lighting. I wanted a mural 73 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 4: to go around the entire restaurant, and we wanted American food, 74 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 4: American comfort. 75 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: Food, because you couldn't get that in the village at 76 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: the time. 77 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 4: There's a lot of Chinese, a lot of Italian, and 78 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 4: so we had Basil Walter, I helped design it, and 79 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: I had Ed Sewell, who's the greatest magazine illustrator of 80 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 4: the last sixty years. He did the mural of all 81 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 4: the Greenish Village great over the past. 82 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: Kind of gets you through dinner too, because you just 83 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: keep looking at it. 84 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: And it tells the story back to you as well. 85 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: I love murals in restaurants, and anyway, we're probably their 86 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 4: twenty second year now and it's it's done well. And 87 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 4: at the top of the menu it has a quote 88 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 4: from Donald Trump says. 89 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Worst food in the city. And that hasn't hurt business. 90 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 3: Do you get involved in the food? 91 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: We do tastings and when we're about to hire a 92 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: new chef, and but I do the seating every night. 93 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 3: Oh is it true? Is it? Is it a urban 94 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: myth that we had? People had to call you to 95 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: get a table. 96 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: People do. 97 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, me too, But yeah, but you could. 98 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so is it most nights? You know people 99 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: who are eating there? Is that why you if you 100 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: have strangers, how do you. 101 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: Know where to put them? 102 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 4: A lot of the strangers, the staff will know them, 103 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 4: they'll know where to put them roughly where they are. 104 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 4: And but I, you know, there's like usually a half 105 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 4: dozen people I know, and I just make sure they 106 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 4: have a table roughly same at the table they had before. 107 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 3: I like sitting at the same table. Do you so, 108 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: where do you sit in the way there? 109 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 4: It's the first banquette when you come in, and this 110 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 4: way I can keep an eye and everything and see 111 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 4: what was coming in. And yeah, it just did. 112 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: It's quiet. 113 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 3: And when you go there, do you go table to table. 114 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: And say, no, that's not my thing. I'm too shy 115 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: for that. 116 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very New York. 117 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: It's like really not cool to go to say hello 118 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: to somebody at a table. 119 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: I think it depends on the restaurant. 120 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 4: And I remember Sherman Billingsley who ran the Stork Club. 121 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 4: He used to have have his hand on the table 122 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 4: and he was talking to somebody when he joined somebody, 123 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 4: and he had these finger gestures like this, and the 124 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 4: staff saw the fingers a certain way, they knew to 125 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 4: come over and whisper in his ear to get them 126 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: away from those people. 127 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: But I, you know, I see a lot of people 128 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: coming through and us all stand up and say, Hi. 129 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: Have you ever been to anybody from strange enough? 130 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 4: Alex Rodriguez was a huge Yankee star back in the 131 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 4: day who lived a block down and he would do 132 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 4: a lot of like this sort of thing at the restaurant, 133 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 4: flicking his fingers. 134 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: But when we we first. 135 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 4: Opened it, I didn't want hedge fund people there because 136 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 4: they're six guys and they have a big noise jeroboama 137 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 4: of like expensive wine. So we tried not to take 138 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 4: reservations from the two three area code, which is Greenwich, Connecticut, 139 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 4: is where all the hedge funds were. So we make 140 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 4: up some excuses why the restaurant had been shut down 141 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 4: for the night or. 142 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: But is there something that would make you not go 143 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: back to riskers? 144 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 4: In service wise, I don't really meet that many rude waiters. 145 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: It's rare and uh, And I think I'm so appreciative. 146 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 4: I'm a heavy tipper, and I'm so appreciative of the 147 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: fact that you're going to a place, somebody's gonna come 148 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 4: ask you what you want to drink, then going to 149 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: ask you what you want to eat. They're gonna bring 150 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 4: it to you, They're gonna make it, they're gonna bring 151 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 4: it to you, and they're going to clean up afterwards. 152 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 4: It's I mean, that is just like one of the 153 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 4: miracles of the world. I say, when people are cumbelaining. 154 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 4: There's a comedian in America. It says, people complain about 155 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: the seat on the airplane they're flying it. They said, 156 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 4: you're in a comfortable seat, thirty thousand feet in the air, 157 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 4: going six hundred miles an hour. 158 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: That's one of the most amazing things in human history. 159 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think if you 160 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: go in thinking that you're going to be okay, and 161 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: that basically if. 162 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 4: You're if you're let's say you move to a new 163 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 4: area and you go to a restaurant, if you're really nice, 164 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 4: just nice to the staff, you don't have to tip 165 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 4: like crazy, if you just really appreciated the staff, they'll 166 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 4: they'll treat you well every time you go. 167 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: What about you. Have you banned anybody? 168 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 169 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: I did once, Yeah I did. He was a guy 170 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: who worked in the music industry. And I was standing 171 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: at the past. 172 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: No, no, he won't. 173 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: He was like nobody, but he he turned, he said, 174 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: ruth He came up. He said, that was of the 175 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: best meals I've ever had. You know, it's just amazing. 176 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: It was fabulous, it was delicious. I loved it. And 177 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: then he just turned to the waitress who was standing 178 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: next to him, a French waitress, and he said, as 179 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: for you, you're an idiot, and I was like oho, and 180 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: so he she turned around and he left and I 181 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: followed him down and I said, you know, Simon, I 182 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: just I heard you say that. 183 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: Simon and somebody are Okay, we're going to figure this out. 184 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: Okay, I said, you know, I said, I heard you 185 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: say that, and you can't do that. He said, but 186 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: she is, and I said, and so I said, I 187 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: guess I won't be seeing you, you know, for a 188 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: long time. And he called up and he said to 189 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: the you know, to the manager, he said that, you know, 190 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: I you know, how much you know, I think I 191 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: think Ruthie has just banned me. 192 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: You know, I think he's just banned me. And he said, well, 193 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 3: maybe she did. And he said, but you do understand 194 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: how much money I spend in this restaurant, and that 195 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: did not you know, in any call. He was really upset. 196 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: They called me the next day and said it. You know, 197 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: I said, he said, am I ever ever going to 198 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 3: be allowed to come back? I don't think so, but. 199 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 2: You know, said I did. I said something like, you 200 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: give it a year. He said, you're putting me on 201 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 2: the naughty step for a year. I mean, this became 202 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: a huge thing, you know, but that was the only time. 203 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: But you know, those now. 204 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 4: If they're rooted at all to the stuff, that's that's 205 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 4: the thing. Pillow Green. 206 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: He was awful. 207 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 4: But our passion at her at the time had begged 208 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 4: me to have him come to this thing, and I, 209 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 4: against my better judgment, I said, yes, he was just 210 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 4: he was disgusting. 211 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, we had. 212 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: My favorite story about Manning is about Damien Hurst and 213 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: his best friend called Aunt in the like eighties or nineties. 214 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: They you know, the Groucho Club with the Grouchow Club, 215 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: and they they said, like at three in the morning, 216 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: they close everybody out, and Damian and his friend were 217 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: completely god knows on what. So they they found a 218 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: ladder and so they got a ladder from some place 219 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: in Soho, and they climbed up to the balcony on 220 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: the first floor and they broke a window and they 221 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 2: went inside, and then they threw up all over the 222 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: pool table. And then they went and they got some 223 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: more alcohol out of the out of the fridge and 224 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: they drank that, and then they went and they probably, 225 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: you know, they again threw up, and they took more 226 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 2: food in the kitchen, and then they just broken another 227 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: thing trying to get into it. And they fell asleep, 228 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 2: completely passed out on the floor. And the manager came 229 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: in the next morning, Marianne, and she looked at them 230 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: and she said, you know, I could have you arrested 231 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: for breaking it in would I could have you and you 232 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: know break you know, arrested and throw you out for 233 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: you know, trashing my property. I could have you arrested 234 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: because you fell asleep here. 235 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: And that could have been a fire. I could have you, 236 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,359 Speaker 3: she said. 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Visit our website shop the 244 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 2: Rivercafe dot co dot uk to place your order. 245 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: Now do you want to read your recipe? 246 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 4: Beef carpacco Serve six for the beef three pound filet 247 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 4: of beef, salt and black pepper. Trim every bit of 248 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 4: fat from the beef, leaving a small cylinder of tender meat. 249 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 4: Chill well using a razor sharp knife, slice the meat 250 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: paper thin. Arrange the slices of meat on six small 251 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 4: plates to cover the surface completely. Drizzle the sauce over 252 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 4: the meat in ribbons. Serve immediately with the sauce one 253 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 4: cup of homemade mayonnaise, a half teaspoon of Worcester sauce, 254 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 4: one teaspoon fresh lemon juice, two tablespoons milk, salt and pepper. 255 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 4: Put the mayonnaise in a bowl and whisk in the 256 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: Worcester sauce and lemon juice. Add in enough milk to 257 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 4: make a thin sauce that coats the back of a 258 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 4: wooden spoon, taste the sauce and it just the seasoning, 259 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 4: and add more Worcester sauce and or lemon juice to 260 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 4: taste there. You know, simple one take, one take, you know, 261 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 4: that's what they called me. They called me one take harder. 262 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: Okay, So would you have ever had beef carpaccio in 263 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: your house growing up? 264 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: Do you remember when you had your first carpaccia? 265 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: Oh that was definitely New York. So it was a 266 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: big It was a big dish. 267 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 4: In the nineteen eighties, and like around the time when 268 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 4: like sambuca, Remember sambuca was a thing with three coffee beans. 269 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: And anyways, in New York, I never. 270 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: Had yes, yes, it was so corny. 271 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 4: But I never had raw food knowingly until I came 272 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 4: to New York in the nineteen seventies. 273 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 3: What did you have at home? What was So there's 274 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 3: you and your. 275 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 4: Brother, your brother, brother, and sister and my mother was 276 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 4: I would I can only say this now that she's 277 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 4: she's dead. She wasn't the greatest cook. And I grew 278 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 4: up in Ottawa, which is the capital city. Very cold, 279 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 4: I mean very very cold, and a lot of snow, 280 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 4: and there weren't a lot of fresh vegetables when I 281 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 4: was growing up. It's probably a bit like London at 282 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 4: the time. 283 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: The train that's what we have to talk about. 284 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean. 285 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: I think I've had one guest of one hundred and 286 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: fifty guests work. 287 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: As alignment for the railroads. 288 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 3: Alignment was that dangerous? Is it dangerous? 289 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 2: Yeah? 290 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: I guess it could be. 291 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 4: I mean the mothers in those days and fathers and 292 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 4: especially my my friends, they send their kids out to 293 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 4: toughen them up out to west and to you know, 294 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 4: they don't they didn't use that with this expression then, 295 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 4: but to sort of character build. 296 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: So I sent out. My aunt was a vice chairman 297 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: of the vice president of the railway, so she got 298 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: me this job. And the thing was, you got paid 299 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: two dollars and eighty cents an hour year nineteen seventy 300 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: two dollars. 301 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 4: An hour two work as an alignment climbing the telegraph poles, 302 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 4: and two dollars and twenty cents an hour if you're 303 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 4: a groundsman. So I signed out to be a grounds 304 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 4: I got I'm not climbing telegraph poles. So we would 305 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 4: get out there and I wind up in a living 306 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 4: in a box car with eleven other man, most of 307 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 4: whom had criminal records, and they had a big sort 308 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 4: of poster up on the wall sign that showed what 309 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 4: the railroad would pay if you lost a certain limb. 310 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 4: So it would be seven hundred and fifty dollars for 311 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 4: a leg and two hundred and fifty dollars for an arm, 312 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: and like seventy five dollars for a foot, and these 313 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: are Canadian dollars. And then you teach you how to 314 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 4: climb out a telegraph pole that you have spikes in 315 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 4: your shoes that are sort of manacled to the bottom 316 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 4: part of your leg, and big gauntlet gloves, and you 317 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 4: climb up. You basically walk up the thing and you're 318 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 4: holding under the pole. There's no safety belt. And then 319 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 4: you had to carry wire up the pole and we 320 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 4: turn take off the old wire and this is like 321 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 4: thirty forty feet in the air, and then put the 322 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 4: other wire up and then refascen it to these glass conductors. 323 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: Did you get to college after that? 324 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: So then I come back, I go to college. 325 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 4: I was going to study political science in Ottawa, and 326 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 4: I'm walking by a place where the big glass office 327 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 4: with a bunch of people with typewriters and young people. 328 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 4: And I stopped and I asked them what they were doing, 329 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 4: and they said they were starting a magazine. So I said, oh, 330 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 4: can you use an extra hand? And they said, well, we're. 331 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: Looking for an art director. I said, I said, well 332 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: I can draw. 333 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 4: What was a magazine called The Canadian Review, and it 334 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 4: was a political literary magazine. It did nothing but lose money. 335 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 4: It was it was sort of valiant, but not very good, 336 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: and that was put out by people who never worked 337 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 4: at a magazine before. But the magazine got me to 338 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 4: New York and it got me a job at Time 339 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 4: Magazine as a writer. And Time then was this sort 340 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 4: of citadel of journalistic power. It had like something like 341 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: eight hundred employees at Time. In those days they. 342 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: Bureaus all over the world. 343 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 4: The London bureau chief lived as well as the American 344 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 4: ambassador almost here. 345 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: And so I remember one. He was called Eric Amphitheatro. 346 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: Did you ever know him? 347 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: Definitely he was. 348 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 3: He was really elegant man. 349 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: They all were all those. 350 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: Square ye, they lived well smart. 351 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, And Time then was being restocked by this huge 352 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 4: collection of brilliant twenty somethings and like Walter Isingson was there, 353 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 4: and Frank Rich and Michiko Kako Tani, who became the 354 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: chief book critical of the New York Times. My partner 355 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 4: at Airmail Alessander Stanley. This is nineteen seventy eight. My 356 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 4: partner at Spy magazine Kurt Anderson. My best friend Jim 357 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 4: Kelly who became the editor of Time, Maureen Daoud who's 358 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 4: the Pulitzer Prize winning columnists for the Time. So it 359 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 4: was just there's about twelve of us, and we became 360 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 4: mostly became lifelong friends. 361 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: What did you do? What was your I was a writer, 362 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: so you would write. 363 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: What I was aflow right, So I wrote business stories, 364 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: show business. 365 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 4: Stories, and and just about you know, press stories, just 366 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 4: about anything they assigned. 367 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 3: To me, which was the social life. 368 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: Social life was great. 369 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 3: New York in the eighties. 370 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 4: Early This is like New York late seventies, early eighties. 371 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 4: It was still before AIDS, and I was you know, 372 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 4: you're young. All of a sudden, you have an expense account. 373 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 4: Nobody had ever had an expense account before, and so 374 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 4: you were eating out lunches, You're eating out dinners. 375 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk about them. 376 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 4: So what lunches we were Okay, So most lunches there 377 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 4: was over in the West fifties in New York. 378 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: They were like there's. 379 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: A row of French restaurants all and there someone were 380 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 4: still there. There was one called Rennie Poujol, there was 381 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 4: one called and there was Yea, and there's one called 382 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 4: Shane Napoleon. And the Rennie Poujol was the Life magazine hangout, 383 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 4: and Shane Napoleon was the Time magazine hangout, and she 384 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 4: you could go and by this time I did drink, 385 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 4: and so you could go and have two people for 386 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 4: lunch with a bottle of wine for twenty five dollars 387 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 4: a frenchman. 388 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was red check your table class. 389 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: It seemed really reasonable when you were there. 390 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, even then it seemed reasonable. 391 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: You got fifty dollars for your leg and. 392 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: Then you could you could expense the lunch. 393 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 3: Did you go to the Four Seasons? 394 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: I went to the four Yeah. 395 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 4: I went to the fourth season when I was at 396 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 4: Time and I thought, I for some reason, it was 397 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 4: like about eight months after I got in there and 398 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 4: a friend took me and I had I thought it 399 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 4: was going to be old fashioned, like the oak room 400 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 4: at the Plaza and I remember seeing it for the 401 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 4: first time and I felt, this feels a bit air porty, 402 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 4: like it like an air But then you know, after 403 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: sitting in there for ten to fifty minutes, you realize 404 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 4: the brilliance of the whole thing. It just it just 405 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 4: it just wasn't what I was expecting. But then I thought, 406 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 4: in time, it was the most beautiful restaurant I'd ever 407 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 4: been to. 408 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 3: Did you ever have to fire at not a time. 409 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: I was too low to fire anybody. 410 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: I was. 411 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: I was the class that was fired. You not the 412 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: firing class. 413 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: But did you just thinking about it, fired career people in. 414 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: My whole career, and three and three of them in 415 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: one week? 416 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 3: But not at lunch? Not I'm going to take you 417 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: out to lunch? 418 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: No much to much. 419 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 3: Did you use place of restaurants to hire people? 420 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: Well, I was strange enough. 421 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 4: I hired uh three people as assistants who were waiters 422 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 4: for me. 423 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: Did you if you can if you can. 424 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 4: Handle you know, three tables of eight diars, you can 425 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 4: handle anything on earth? 426 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: Those were the lunches? Were your friends? Did you all 427 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: kind of get together at night to people? 428 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 4: Oh, we know, we had dinner alment together almost every 429 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 4: single night, and we expended those meals as well, often 430 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 4: on you know, really flimsy uh pretext. 431 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: And then you know, at. 432 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 4: There was I went up with a with a rock 433 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 4: at I know, dating it was wonderful, you know, I 434 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 4: mean New York City. You know, American women were more 435 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 4: interesting than something. 436 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: Then your twenties. 437 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 4: I was in my late twenties. Yeah, I had a 438 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 4: great apartment in the village. I was paying two hundred 439 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 4: dollars a month. It had a tall ceilings like this 440 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 4: and a wall of leaded glass and opened up onto 441 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 4: a garden. And that'd be like five thousand and six 442 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 4: thousand dollars. Now it's like seventies, eighties, eighties. 443 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: So then we went from Time. 444 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 4: So then I went to the I was assigned to 445 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 4: Life magazine. They had restarted Life in the seventies. They 446 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 4: closed it for about six years and then restarted it. 447 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 4: So I was assigned to Life magazine and as a 448 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 4: writer editor. And I was happy to be there because 449 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 4: I you know, I had I think my at least 450 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 4: one child. By then, I needed a job and I 451 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 4: had an H one visa which was tied to employment. 452 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 4: So I if I lost my job, I'd lose my 453 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 4: right to be in the United States. So I went 454 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 4: to work at Life Magazine. I was sort of I 455 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 4: could do my job in five hours out of a week. 456 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 4: So Fred and I started plotting a magazine set in 457 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 4: New York. I like Private Eye, but you know sort 458 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 4: of gloss you're looking that called Spy Magazine. That would 459 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 4: be sort of fact based, heavily reported, but funny magazine 460 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 4: about New York and the people that were then sort 461 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 4: of the defining characters of New York, people like Donald 462 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 4: Trump and Leona Helmsley and anyway. 463 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: And it was how. 464 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 3: Would you get your how would you get your story? 465 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: It's in people how to report on stories? 466 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 3: And then did they have interview? 467 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: So tell me who just stop and talk about the 468 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 2: President of the United States? 469 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 4: Well that was me I had done. I used to 470 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 4: do a lot of writing on the side to make 471 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 4: ends meet. And I had been assigned by G magazine 472 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty three to do a story in this 473 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 4: up and coming real estate developer who was quite sort 474 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 4: of flashy. 475 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: In the tabloids. 476 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 4: And his name was Donald Trump, and I'd sort of 477 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 4: read about him, but I really follow what he did. 478 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 4: But it was his first national exposures. So he allowed 479 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 4: me to. 480 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: He allowed me, he asked me to hang around with 481 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: for three weeks. 482 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 4: So I spent a lot of time with him, and 483 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 4: I wrote the story and he hated it because I 484 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 4: were very slightly flashy, had a sort of MoU stretched limousine, 485 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 4: and I pointed out this one comment that I pointed 486 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 4: out that his hands looked too. 487 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: Small for his body. He really hated them. 488 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 4: So we get to Spy and we have funny, you know, 489 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 4: rude epithets for people, and trumb sepithet was we called 490 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 4: him a short finger at Bulgarian, which is sort of 491 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 4: caught on and stuck it me. 492 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: He has been quite young at that time, was he 493 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: He's he's four years. 494 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: Older than I am. 495 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 3: So this is in the eighties, this is. 496 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 4: In the mid eighties. And so anyway, Spy was actually 497 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 4: a huge hit. But the trouble is, our whole money 498 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 4: was based on printing just twenty you know, enough for 499 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 4: twenty five thousand circulation. We had to start, you know, 500 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 4: spending a lot more money on printing, and so after 501 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 4: five years, we we'd run out of money and we 502 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: sold it to Charles Sacci and Johnny pagatza ah. And 503 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 4: then I wanted to start a newspaper, twice a week 504 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 4: newspaper that would come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 505 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: And this man called Arthur Carter, no relation to me. 506 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: He had this very sleepy newspaper on the Upper eas 507 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 4: Side called the New York Observer. And I mean, he said, 508 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 4: once you learn the business doing my paper, So I said, okay. 509 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 4: So I worked out a plan, a six month, twelve month, 510 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 4: eighteen month plan of how it'd change it. I'd go 511 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 4: to work on this and within six months it had 512 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 4: become sort of a thing. People reading it it. It 513 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 4: was sort of the local newspaper for the Upper East 514 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 4: Side and Greenwich Village, and it was starting to get noticed, 515 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 4: and I I started sending copies to editors in Paris 516 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 4: and London and things like that. And then Cy Knwhause 517 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 4: who owned Random House and Connie nast A Contie has 518 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 4: a big new magazine published that published you know, the 519 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 4: New Yorker and Vogue and Vanity Fair and GQ and 520 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 4: Architectural Digest in any number of other magazines. He offered 521 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 4: me the New Yorker and Vanity Fair, and I chose 522 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 4: the New Yorker. But then, because we'd made fun of 523 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 4: Vanity Fair at Spy magazine, it was a major. 524 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: Target for us. 525 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 4: And so but then the day it was supposed to 526 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 4: be announced, it was switched and Tina Brown became the 527 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 4: editor the New Yorker and I became the editor of 528 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 4: Vanity Fair. And I was not the most popular candidate 529 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 4: because we'd made fun of them for the last five years. 530 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 531 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in 532 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: the restaurant, And now we're bringing that same ethos to 533 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: our podcast, a question and answer episode with me and 534 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 2: our two executive chefs. Send a voice note with your 535 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: question to Questions at Rivercafe dot co dot uk and 536 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: you might just be our next great guest on Ruthie's 537 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 2: Table four. Did you ever do anything about going back? 538 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 3: What to eat? And you? Did you have any articles 539 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: about food critic? Nope, get a food critic? 540 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: No. 541 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 4: I had a restaurant critic, Adrian gil food who did 542 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 4: He did a story about this restaurant. I think John 543 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 4: George Uh was the cooking part and Richard Meyer had 544 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 4: designed it. It was down and try back. 545 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and. 546 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 4: This article, this review was the rudest restaurant review that 547 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 4: had appeared in New York in decades. I mean there 548 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 4: was news stories about it. There were longer than the review. 549 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 4: So Adrian biz Our, he probably did two. I think 550 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 4: we did two restaurant reviews the entire time. Was there 551 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 4: one on this restaurant that Richard Meyer had done and 552 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 4: one on Lammy Louis. 553 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 3: I was going to say, Lammy Louis, I remember that and. 554 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: He called it the world's worst restaurant. 555 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and so yeah, yes, I don't agree with 556 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: you totally. 557 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 4: I think it's the rudest restaurant in the world. You think, so, yeah, yeah, 558 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 4: I think terribly rude. And it's filled with Americans anyway, So. 559 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 3: I love that. 560 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: The other day how much Chicken and Scout. It's kind 561 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: of old school, but you know, there is I think 562 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: they did, Like a lot of Persians, they kind of 563 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: realize at some point now it is Yeah, I hope 564 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: he doesn't touch it. Yeah, but do you think do 565 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: you think when you go to a city where you 566 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 2: want to eat, if you're in Paris. 567 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: That's the first thing I think, So you do. 568 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 3: So this person who doesn't think about you. 569 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, my life isn't No. It's funny. 570 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: During the pandemic we were in We're in Provence. 571 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: About is at the house? I came to yes, yes, yeah. 572 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 4: And so during the pandemic, and I actually loved the 573 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 4: quietness of it and just you know, the peacefulness of it. 574 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: She could just read. 575 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 4: But we had a beautiful market town right near It's 576 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 4: called Valbon, and it's a sixteenth century market town, not huge, 577 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 4: but built on a grid like Manhattan. And during the 578 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 4: pandemic we'd go in and walk around and there's no restaurant. 579 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 4: The restaurants couldn't open. There was one that filled the 580 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 4: entire square, and you just realized. I came back thinking that, 581 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 4: realizing that restaurants are the heart. 582 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: And soul of a city. 583 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 4: It's where you get engaged, it's where you break up, 584 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 4: it's where you celebrate a. 585 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: New job. 586 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 4: It's where you bemone having been fired. It's where you 587 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 4: gather with your friends. It's without you take restaurants out 588 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: of a city, and a city is dead. 589 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 2: So when you go to a city, if you know 590 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: you're going, what do you do in terms of finding 591 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 2: out where to eat? 592 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 3: Do you call friends? 593 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 4: No, No, I have my my my restaurant list for 594 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 4: you know, Paris and London and Los Angeles. 595 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, where would you go? 596 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: If I'm Sam going to Gordon, it's Ruthie, I'm going 597 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 2: to la Where should I use? 598 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: You know something? 599 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 4: We have every meal at the Chateau Marmount. You stay 600 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 4: there and we just have all the meals there. 601 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 3: So tell us about the Vanity Fair Oscar party. 602 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: Did you get. 603 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 4: Involved in the menu everything and every single detail? We well, 604 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 4: we did it with Thomas Keller and he did these. 605 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 4: It's good and so it's a long night, so you 606 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 4: want to have some food that soaks up the alcohols. 607 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 4: He made these beautiful small lasagnas and we had but 608 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 4: we've also had an in and out stand to give 609 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: Hamburgers to people as well. You don't sit down and 610 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 4: you sit down for you sit down for three and 611 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 4: a half hours and watch the Oscars. So the one 612 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 4: hundred and fifty people come at the beginning of the 613 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 4: sit down and you have big screens all around, so 614 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 4: you watch the Oscars and these are older movie stars 615 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 4: or people who aren't not that year, and you have 616 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 4: artists and writers and you know, all the rest of 617 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 4: that sort of thing, and then you have then all 618 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 4: the then maybe three or four hundred and then maybe 619 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: five or six hundred over the course of the whole 620 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: evening come from the oscars, So. 621 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: Then it becomes just a giant milling party. 622 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 4: And I believe or not, most movie stars don't know 623 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 4: each other because unless they worked on a movie together, 624 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 4: they don't know the other person. So they some of 625 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 4: them asked me to introduce them to somebody else. And 626 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 4: all parties in those days, big parties always had some 627 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 4: vip roped off area and I didn't want any of that. 628 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 4: I thought, we're gonna make it hard to get him. 629 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 4: But once you're in, you're everybody's treated the same, which 630 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: is well. We treated people really well, and we looked 631 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 4: after Like at the dinner, we had like, you know, 632 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 4: the Zippo lighters for everybody with saying from one of 633 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 4: them from a famous movie on it, and we had 634 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 4: our own ashtrays and they're all meant to be stolen. 635 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: So what do do? The menu was talked to Thomas 636 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 3: Keller do it every year too? 637 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 4: No, we I'm trying to. I can't remember who did it. 638 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 4: He did it for many years and I can't remember 639 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 4: who did it before him, but we would do tastings. 640 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, tasting and just going through the design of 641 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 4: the table. And we had her own lamps made and night. 642 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 643 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: Well everyone like in yes. 644 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 4: But I remember once said at one of the parties 645 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 4: we did at the during the Cannes Film Festival at 646 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 4: the hotel the cap and Sarah Marx, who organized these 647 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 4: things for us, she was the head organizer, she came 648 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 4: home and said, oh, you got to come quickly. 649 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: Isabelle Hubert is just I think she's dead. I said, 650 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: what do you mean. So we rush over and. 651 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 4: They've got her lying down on a sofa and she's 652 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 4: the color of asphalt and she's not moving, and I think, 653 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 4: oh my god, she's dead. We've killed her, and I 654 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 4: said and I said, no, nothing kills past a party 655 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 4: fashion and the dead actors either. And so we were 656 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 4: standing there watching her. All of a sudden she moved 657 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 4: and I thought, oh, thank god. So very carefully the staff, 658 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 4: the hotel staff, got the call to the an ambulance, 659 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 4: got a gurney to come in through the kitchen very 660 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 4: quietly so no other guests would see, to get her 661 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 4: under the gurney and wheel her back out to the 662 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 4: back door off to the hospital and she's fine. And 663 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 4: what had happened was, you know, she had sort of 664 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 4: worn a very tight dress and didn't want to, you know, 665 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 4: have any bulges from eating, so she only drank and 666 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 4: had no food. 667 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 3: Do you listen to people's dietary requirements? 668 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: No, no, you can't. 669 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 4: With one hundred c Most of this was before everybody 670 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 4: had a dietary problem, and we tried to avoid you know, 671 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 4: complicated things. But if you yeah, there's a vegetarian option, 672 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 4: and I mean if you wanted to, they could whip 673 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 4: up a salad if that's what you wanted. I mean, 674 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 4: you know we once you're a guest, we treat you 675 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 4: really well. 676 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 3: We have gone through. 677 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: Actually, that thing that sticks with me is we're climbing 678 00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: those poles in the train. 679 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 3: But if you if you. 680 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 2: Climb the trains and it toughened you up, and you 681 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: want you know, Vanity Fair and my list of what 682 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: you've created, Spy and the Waverley And if you think 683 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: that that all this that you work hard, you need rest, 684 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: you need stimulation, you need fun, but you also need 685 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 2: comfort sometimes And so the question I always end this 686 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: podcast with and we're not going to end because we 687 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: could go on for another three hours. But if you 688 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: want comfort from food, would you say there's something that 689 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: you reach for when you need comfort? 690 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 4: Well, I can't actually cook anything, but I think that 691 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 4: I love cheese. 692 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: You know, a little slice of cheese can take the 693 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: edge off in the middle of the afternoon. 694 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 4: My comfort go to at a restaurant in America is 695 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 4: a hamburger. I think it's almost the perfect dish. And 696 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 4: you can't have a successful restaurant in New York if 697 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 4: you're it has American food unless you make a great hamburger. 698 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: So you can get them almostwhere. 699 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 3: And you think you have the best burger in New York. 700 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no, we don't have the best thing. 701 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 4: We don't have the best anything in New York. But 702 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 4: the most restaurants who cover that level of food, they 703 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 4: all have great hammer You can't. It's it's pretty hard 704 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 4: to have a bad one. And there are many different 705 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: types of hamburgers now that they're like pizzas. Now they're 706 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 4: the people learn how to do them in a million 707 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 4: different ways. I actually had a great hamburger at the 708 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 4: park last night. 709 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: That's great. 710 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 4: The park that's a little sort of it's the very 711 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 4: American and the manual American slash Continental. 712 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 3: What do you look for in a hamburger? 713 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 4: And hamburger so not too big, people, some things make 714 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 4: them way too big. I think it's going to be, 715 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 4: you know, like an inch and a half thick and 716 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 4: a high quality either brioche or or a pretzel bahn. 717 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 4: And you know, a mixture meat not not cirlo. And 718 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 4: you wanted some chuck in there, some short ribbon there, 719 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 4: whatever they have, and I like it pretty playing with 720 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 4: cheez ketchup sometimes I like just pretty simple and maybe 721 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 4: a bit of mao oh. 722 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 3: I don't have hamburgers, but we could go and have 723 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 3: some lunch. 724 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: Let's do that. 725 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 3: Thank you great, Thank you, Rithy. 726 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership 727 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 4: with Montclair