WEBVTT - The Taliesin Massacre 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.960 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.840 and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, Jerry's here. Uh and 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:23.080 this is Stuff you should Know. Um, the long awaited 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:29.360 Frank Lloyd Wright edition sort of yeah, kind of. I mean, 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.880 you know, it's not a full biography, but it is 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.280 definitely covers some of his very dark period of his life. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.640 Oh yeah, one of the darker periods that any artiste 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.120 could have. And make no mistake, Frank Lloyd Wright wasn't artiste. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.440 He was an artiste of architecture. Yeah. Have you ever 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.800 how many houses of his? Have you seen? Our buildings? 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.520 I've seen a bunch. Um. I've been to Holly Hawk 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.120 in Los Angeles, have been to uh Youth Sony and 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.120 I can't remember which one in Wa Washington by the 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.280 one of the I can't remember what other historic house 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.920 it's by. They moved it. Um. I've been to there's 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.800 a Usonian in Alabama. Chuck in Florence, Alabama, which is 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.800 really neat. Been to Falling Water, Um, been to Talius 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.360 in West I think that's it. Yeah. I've been to 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.280 a handful of myself. I've been to one in Tulsa 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.919 and a couple in l A. Of course, the Googgenheim. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.399 I think we've both been there, and I have not. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.600 I have not. Really. Yeah, all the times you've been 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.240 to New York and all the museums that you never 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.640 stepped footing the Guggenheim, It's true. I've never been in 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.240 the Googenheims. Sadly enough, I saw a movie where there's 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.319 a shootout in the Googgenheim. I highly recommend going to 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.120 the Guggenheim. It's great. Okay, I thought it was George 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.040 Costanza bit designed the googen him, not franklind Right. M 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.840 that's right. He always wanted to be an architect. That's right. 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.720 He's had. My favorite line for that episode is when 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.080 he talks about the redesign plans at the Guggenheim and 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.760 they go really, he goes, yeah, really didn't even take 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.920 that long. That's right. Yeah, he's saying that he was 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.160 the one who redesigned it, like it's impressive that it 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:14.079 was just a really quick job. Yeah, that's a classic. Um. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.079 But we're not talking about the Googgenheim to day, Chuck, 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.960 We're not even talking about Hollyhock House. We're talking about 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:25.239 specifically tally Essen, which is widely regarded as um Frank 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:31.839 Lloyd writes genuine bona fide masterpiece, like his greatest work ever. Um. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.720 I think it was it said that it's his um 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:40.640 autobiography written in wood and stone, that it's just him 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.840 and not just him in a specific time and place. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.000 But for like decades were the work, his earliest work 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.560 to his latest work all showed up and appeared over 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:54.120 time at tally Essen. Yeah, I mean there's a lot there. Um. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.160 It was his home at times, it was his studio 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:04.160 of school. Um, an eight hundred acre estate. This was 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.320 family land, it was it was his favorite hill in 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.680 Wisconsin and the river valley there where his Welsh grandparents 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.000 originally homesteaded, and so it was very personal to him. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.240 So he did things like make the roof so it 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:23.520 doesn't leak water into the offices below like some of 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.360 his other properties. Exactly. Yeah, he wasn't oneing to just 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:32.119 move his desk, right. So, UM, this this particular house 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.200 and it was a and it still is. It's a huge, 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.920 enormous house. I think it's twenty one square feet. Um, 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:42.440 it's a classic example of what's called the Prairie style, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.000 which is a style of architecture considered to be the 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.520 first genuine American style of architecture UM that Frank Lloyd 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.040 Right founded back in they think the eighteen nineties, maybe 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.840 the late eighteen nineties, and it has it takes its 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.640 inspiration from the surrounding environment. It's been to blend in 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.440 with the environment, work with the environment, rather than to 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.280 dominate it. So there's a lot of horizontal lines, a 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.080 lot of natural materials, a lot of woodworking, and um 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.080 tally Esen is very much in that style. UM. I 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.520 think it has five and twenty four windows, which is 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.200 a lot of windows, and um it also has no gutters. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.720 There's a lot of cannilivered roofs which kind of overhang 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.760 pretty far. Um, so there wasn't necessarily need for gutters. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.000 But I read that franklod Right specifically didn't want gutters 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.680 because he wanted icicles to form on the eaves of 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.760 the roof so he could look out of those five 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.599 windows in the Wisconsin winter and see all the icicles hanging. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:47.720 Do you like the prairie homes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.720 My problem with Frankloyd Rice work is that it's so 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.479 dated an old timey that it almost like it almost 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:02.000 makes me um a combination of scared and nauseous. You 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.600 know what I'm talking about. Have you ever looked at 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.920 a wicker wheelchair from like the turn of the last century, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.000 You just kind of get the creeps from it for 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.600 some reason? Okay, you get that same. I mean this. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.920 You know, he did the bulk of his work a 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.400 hundred years ago, you know, somewhere in that range. But 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:26.000 it was also like it was also very technologically um advanced, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.840 and like he was just doing some really interesting stuff. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.720 So the way that a very dated, once technologically advanced 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.360 piece of work can kind of call that weird feeling 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:40.880 out of you. But at the same time, I'm like 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.159 in genuine awe of this stuff you did. Like Falling 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.839 Water is one of my favorite houses in the entire world. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.200 I mean, it's just amazing. What about you? I like them, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.240 all right, They're they're fine, um some of them. And 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.479 you know, I have some here in the neighborhood that 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.160 pop up every now and then. Some newer builds are 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.080 in the prairie style, and I like them more than 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.120 some other kinds and less than some other kinds. Let's 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.839 just say that you you like craftsmen, Well, sure, I 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.440 live in a craftsman That's that's my favorite. But I 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.200 like craftsman too. I think they're good. I appreach. I mean, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.120 I love a highly slick modern home. I don't want 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.520 to live in one, but I love them. I would 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.280 not want to live in one. Either those are hit 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.920 or miss with me, Like, some of them are just 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.920 too just god awful. Some of them are just when 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.680 they hit the nail on the head, you're like, wow, 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.760 that's one of the best houses anyone's ever designed and built. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.680 But they miss. It's almost like documentaries and horror movies. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.880 There's a lot of them, but only very very few, 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.280 like are truly great. That's my that's my impression of 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.800 modern homes. Yeah, i'man. We're in architecture though, as a 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.040 as a couple, Emily nine, we watch a couple of 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.480 you might hear me, great, well that's two. It's a triad. Well, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.240 I guess they're uni in there, and I guess, but uh, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:00.440 we we have a couple of shows that we love 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.000 to watch that are this one called Grand Designs on 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.200 Netflix that I highly come in. Uh and oh man, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.400 what's the other one? There's this cup not a married couple, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.960 but a pair that travels the world. The British architecture 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.400 bake off. No, that's not it. I can't remember what 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.360 it's called. But Grand Designs is really good. I mean, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.160 and they follow these, you know, sort of impossibly built 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:28.320 houses designed and built by these incredible lunatic dreamers who 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.880 are obsessed with sort of a thing. It seems to 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.280 be the common thread as these obsessives, and it leads 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.840 to something beautiful and great, you know, usually for sure. Yeah, so, um, 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.960 what are the things about Frank Lloyd Wright is that 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.720 he is including during his lifetime he's considered one of 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:50.400 the greatest architects ever lived, certainly the most popular, popularly 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.600 well known, maybe, I guess you'd put it like anybody 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.520 who's ever heard of any kind of architecture, even vaguely, 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.000 is probably familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright agreed. So when 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.480 he when he um put all of himself into Tallys 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.240 and he was building a home for himself, and I 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.920 think it was completed in nineteen eleven, and like it's 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.560 worth pointing out, he was returning to his childhood home 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:19.480 to the valley where his his clan like settled, Like 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.200 if you if you look around spring Green, Wisconsin, everybody's 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.560 got the name Lloyd in there somewhere, like his maternal 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.160 ancestors settled the area. And he was literally building on 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.120 this hill, his favorite hill when he was a child, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.720 like you were saying, but he was doing this in 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.960 the midst of one of the biggest scandals like any 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:42.360 architect's ever gone through. Yeah, so uh, as you'll see 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.480 through this show. And if you know anything about the man, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.079 Frank Lloyd Wright had a bit of a wandering eye 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.160 and a bit of a philandering habit, and he had 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.760 a an extramarital affair with a woman name m A 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.720 m a h Mama, mama four huh. I don't know, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.520 I've I've been testing it out too, I said, Mama, Mama, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.120 sure bourth Wick and she was, um, you know. They 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.280 met in nineteen oh three, right, was in his mid 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.680 thirties at the time. He was already really famous as 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.280 an architect, and he was commissioned to design a house 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.880 for her and her husband, Edwin Cheney, and they were 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.360 it was going to be built there in Wisconsin pretty 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.080 close to Chicago, where Frank Lloyd Right was at the time. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.240 She was pregnant in her mid thirties at the time 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.400 with her second child, and got really involved in in 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.240 sort of working with Frank Lloyd Right very closely, and 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.199 that sort of you know, the the classic story. At first, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.000 it starts out platonic. One thing leads to another, and 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:50.480 before you know it, they're bumping uglies. That's right, smashing, 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.400 as the younger kids say, from what I just heard 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:54.720 that for the first time the other day, I didn't 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.840 know that was a thing. So it's a thing though. 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.960 Um So, frankloud Right by this time had six kids 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.640 of his own, and he had made a name for 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:09.119 himself like around Chicago building homes, designing homes for um 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.320 the well to do, especially in the Oak Park neighborhood. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:18.200 Apparently just between nineteen hundred and nineteen he designed fifty 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.480 prairie houses. So he'd made a name for himself. But 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.360 apparently by the time I think nineteen o eight was 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.000 when he no. Nineteen o seven when they started their affair. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.199 By the time nineteen o seven rolled around, he was 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.679 getting kind of tired of doing the same thing. It's 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.319 kind of like he was cursed like this. This school 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.719 of architecture that he developed was so popular that he 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.880 that's all anybody wanted, and he had gotten bored with 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.720 it by that time. So he seems to have been 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.760 unfulfilled professionally and kind of took it out on his family. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.920 And about the worst way you could possibly take things 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.160 out on your family, short of cutting them up with 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:02.600 the machete. Yeah. By nineteen o eight, it was a 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.880 pretty much well known open secret in Chicago and that 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.520 high society in Chicago that this affair was going on, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.160 and he was sort of looked down on from his 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.520 friends and his neighbors and his peers, different colleagues. His 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.760 poor wife, Kitty was a long suffering because she kind 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.360 of stood by a side anyway. Uh. And he'd realized 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.760 that he really wanted to leave his family, and he 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.720 did so. He said, I did not know what I wanted. 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.640 I wanted to go away, and he did in September 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.160 of nineteen o nine. Uh, Frank left with her, went 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:43.200 to Europe, left his wife and his six kids behind. Uh. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.600 And here's one of the more selfish quotes I've ever 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.320 seen from a husband and father. Uh. And this was 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.920 in his autobiography. So when family life in Oak Park 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.240 in that spring of nineteen o nine conspired against the 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.360 freedom to which I had come to feel every soul entitled, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.840 I had no choice. Would I keep my self respect 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.800 but to go out of voluntary exile. So he really 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.080 felt um and you know, those were his words in 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.680 his autobiography. So he wasn't he had no illusions about himself, 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.080 but he very much felt that. You know what, Um, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.520 Frank Lloyd right, and I'm a man, and I deserve 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.640 this by my right. Yeah, So those are two key points. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.400 He's a man, so he deserved it. But more than anything, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.600 he was a legend in his own mind, which was 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.640 sustained and verified by the public at large. But he 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.240 was Frank Lloyd right, So more than anybody, he deserved 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.200 that to to go do whatever he wanted, and you know, 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.679 whatever the consequences were for other people emotionally, to hell 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.000 with that. Um. One other thing that I think is 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.880 worth pointing out is that he had money problems basically 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.040 his entire life, despite the fact that I mean, this 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.280 man designed the Google him. He designed some of the 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:00.120 most iconic UM buildings and houses in the United States 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.040 and he had money just coming in by the truckload, 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:04.800 but he would spend it as fast as he could 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.760 get it and then some. So at this point in 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.240 time when he was um, when he left his family, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.520 he apparently left them in financial straits as well. There 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:22.000 there was there's a biographer named um Paul hendricks and, uh, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.640 Paul Hendrickson, I'm sorry, and he points out that there 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.000 was a nine grocery bill that was laying on the 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.880 kitchen counter when when Frank Lloyd Wright walked out on 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.760 his family, which I mean, at least pay the grocery bill, 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.760 so the family that you're leaving an alert can eat, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.679 you know. Yeah. So his his mistress left her two 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.360 kids with her husband. Uh, she went on a train 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.720 to New York City, met Frank at the Plaza Hotel. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.960 They had a few days there of I guess smashing, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.560 and then went to Europe and uh, you know, he 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.320 was famous the world over, so it's not like he 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.160 could lay low, very famous face, very a dresser of 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.480 fine clothing and those hats, so he didn't exactly blend 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.320 in anywhere he went. So he was found out in Berlin. Uh, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:13.240 Chicago Tribune had a headline that said, leave families, semi colon, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.760 nice little switch there, Elope to Europe and this whole time, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.480 poor kitty, She says, it appears like any other ordinary, 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.000 mundane affair with the trappings of what is low and vulgar. 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.320 But there's nothing of that sort about Frank. Right, He 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.720 is honest and sincere I know him, my heart is 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.720 with him now. I feel certain that he will come back. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.360 And that's that's one of the saddest parts about all 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.040 this is she was sort of like, he's just flandering 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.280 a bit and he'll come back to us. Yeah, it 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.680 is sad, but also, you know whatever his kids were 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.520 thinking too, like, well, I guess dad didn't love us 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.160 enough to stick around. Um another I think kind of 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.680 telling clue about Frank, Lloyd writes, enormous arrogance. Was he 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:59.040 called um his and um uh, what are we going 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:05.760 to call her, chuck mama, I'm calling her mamma his 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:11.240 and mamma's um flight to Europe to after a banding 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.360 their their families. He called it a spiritual hegaraga, and 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.480 I had not seen that word before. And it turns 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.960 out hegira or hegora h g g i r a 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:27.120 is what um Mohammed's exodus from persecution in Mecca was called, 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.320 and he left Mecca to go to Medina where he 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.400 founded Islam. And to Frank Lloyd, right, this is what 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.560 he and his mistress were doing when they abandoned their 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.760 families and fled to Europe. Yeah, he thought a lot 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.640 of himself. He was an s ob man, plain and simple. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:46.120 I don't like he's a classic example of like having 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.440 to compartmentalize the genius of the work and just to 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:54.200 complete horrible nous of the person. You know, But it 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.280 can be done. It can be done. I I disagree 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.440 with anybody who who says, you know, there's certain exceptions, 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.200 I'm sure, But anybody who says, well, this person held 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.160 some pretty pretty terrible views, so we shouldn't pay any 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.480 attention to their work from that point on, I disagree 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.600 with that. I think that there are tons of exceptions 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.640 to that rule. Although there are tons of exceptions to 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.840 the exception to that rule too. If that's not confusing enough, well, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.120 I think it's a personal decision. If someone wants to 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.960 never gaze upon falling waters again, then that's their choice totally. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.520 It's not like I'm gonna you know, grab them by 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.760 their hair and like making them look but I would 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.800 disagree with them and in in a lot of cases, yeah, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:40.520 like Manson's music fantastic, just beautiful, stuck, really good stuff. 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:47.480 So uh, Frank Boyd Wright Um returns to Chicago nineteen ten. Uh, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:53.400 Mimall stayed behind. She stayed there in Europe for another 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.160 year because she was getting a divorce from Dwin Cheney. Uh. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.240 And so she stayed there wrapping that up for Rank 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.640 moved back with Kitty. He had no intention of staying. Uh. 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.359 And I think it was pretty clear to Kitty at 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.199 this point because she said Mr Wright. I wonder if 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.080 he made her caller in that Mr Wright reached here 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.040 Saturday evening October eight and he has brought many beautiful things, 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.520 everything but his heart, I guess, And that he has 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.399 left in Germany, but he came back a bit of 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.000 a pariah. Oh, just to Tad, they were. They were 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.440 pariah's before. There was a woman who grew up living 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.240 next door to Mamma and her children, and she Um, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.600 years later, in her diary, recounted a time when her 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.959 mom refused to give Frank Lloyd right cream when he 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.320 came over next door from next door to borrow some 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.960 and said that they were sinners and she wasn't going 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.880 to help them out at all. Um. So when they 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.600 left for Europe, made headline news for leaving their families. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.520 And then he returns moves back in with his family 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.960 just long enough to plan his next home for him 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.600 and mamma um like. Yeah. The people in his social 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.680 orbit did not take very kindly to that. Professionals, neighbors, friends, 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.320 gossip colonists, basically everybody in the Midwest who had anything 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.560 to do with anything like we're rejected him in mamma yeah, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.520 and to boot when he gets back because he needed 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.880 seed money for uh for his new home. He had 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.679 a benefactor named Darwin Martin, and he said, hey, listen, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.440 I want to build this great cottage, uh, and this 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.280 affair is long over and this is going to be 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.960 a cottage for my mom, and I promise it's not 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.560 going to be our little smash shack, and so give 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.080 me twenty dollars to get this project going. He got it. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.560 He moved into the home with his mistress and I 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.439 think by Christmas nineteen eleven they were officially living together 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.280 there in Green Spring. Yeah, he said thanks chump, thanks 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.120 for the money. And because just trashing Frank Lloyd Wright 0:18:58.200 --> 0:18:59.760 as a person is a lot of fun, I want 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.080 to add this detail too, um Darwin Barton, his benefactor, 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.960 over the course of Frank Lood Wright's career, lent Frank 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.879 Lood right grand total and when the stock market crashed 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:19.439 in Darwin Martin lost everything like he was flatbrook was 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:24.320 went from an extraordinary, extraordinarily wealthy man to just flat 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.000 broke for the rest of his life. Frank Lloyd Wright 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.520 never repaid any of that money, but he made sure 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.680 that when his autobiography came out that Darwin Martin got 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.800 a free copy. Oh that's nice. Yeah, he really, he 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.840 really pulled that out at the last minute, didn't he. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.520 All Right, So let's take a break and we'll come 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.520 back and talk about things taking a turn for the 0:19:45.560 --> 0:20:00.000 worst a few years later in August of laws stuff 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:13.680 you should know, okay, Chuck. So let's just go ahead 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.439 and get in the way back Well I don't want 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.399 to see this. We'll just talk about it. We'll leave 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.840 the way back machine out of this one, okay. So 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:26.760 on on Saturday, August fifteen, around lunchtime, actually exactly at 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.600 lunch time. Um, Mama Borthwick. Uh, Frank Lloyd writes, Mistress, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.879 longtime mistress, Um was sitting down for lunch on a 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.879 terrace at tally es In with her two kids. Uh. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.160 To his great credit, Edwin Cheney, her ex husband by 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.720 this time, was not interested in keeping Mamma from seeing 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.520 her children as punishment, so they went to visit Um 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.399 pretty frequently. Uh. And this was a time when they 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:54.920 were visiting. So the three of them were sitting down 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.000 to lunch. John I think he was ten, and her 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.400 daughter Martha, who was eight, and Mama, Mama, We're sitting 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.199 down to lunch on the terrace. Okay, just put that 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.600 in your your pin, put that p in your hat 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:12.280 and smoke it. So that wow, really mixing metaphors. So, uh, 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.560 they're out on the terraces. Inside in the dining room 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.360 there are five of Franklin Dwright's employees, h Emil Burdell, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:25.439 Thomas Brunker, David Lyndblom, Herbert Fritz, and William Weston and 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.520 then Weston's son Ernst. So they were all sitting down 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.920 to eat. Um. I think put a pin and maybe 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.400 both of these scenes and we'll tell you a little 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.840 bit about the handyman of the property named Julian Carlton, 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.119 who in the weeks and months leading up to this 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.280 date had been acting really weird. Uh. He was aggressive, 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.160 he was getting in arguments with other people. Um, he 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.360 was acting very strangely. He started sleeping with a hatchet 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.600 and a sack beside his bed. He was married, and 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.240 his wife, you know, verified this stuff. Um. He was 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.080 talking about killing people. And there was rumor that he 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.399 was being let go, and that there was that he 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.080 and his wife were already had a basically a trained 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.880 book to Chicago to look for other jobs. So this 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.199 is sort of the mindset of what's going on with 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:17.520 Julian Carlton at the time of this lunch, right. Um, 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.040 so Uh, Julian was actually so he was a handyman, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.639 but at this point he he also helped out, helped 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.080 his wife Gertrude when she was cooking. He would serve. 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.680 So he served lunch to Mamma, and then he served 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.159 lunch to the five employees in the dining room. And 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.080 then as they were they started to eat, he approached 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.000 Um William Weston, the foreman of the whole jam William 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.760 Weston was a pretty important guy around tally Essen and 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.840 asked if he could go get some gasoline out of 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.280 the shed. I guess because he was going to clean 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:51.520 some rugs with it with gasoline. It was with gasolene y, then, 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.640 sure that's some old timey rug clinging if I've ever 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.920 heard of it. But UM, so so western. Sure, sure 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.680 of course, go ahead, and um things went really things 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.520 went downhill really quickly from from that moment on. Yeah, 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.200 so I appreciate you leaving this part to me. Um 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.200 Carlton comes back, Oh, I'll fill in. Don't worry. He's 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.359 got the gasoline and he also has an ax. And 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.399 the sequence is a little bit unclear. I've seen both 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:22.639 ways of which happened first. But he slaughtered uh Mama 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.840 Borthwick Borthwick and her kids on the porch and then 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:31.399 poured gasoline under the dining room doors and uh trapped 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.080 them in the room and set the dining room and 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.679 therefore the house on fire with everyone trapped inside. It 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:41.800 gets even worse than that, though. Um. After he had 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.560 slaughtered Mama and her kids with the axe and um 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:49.400 set the house on fire, he went around two window, 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.119 a dining room window where the people who are in 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:53.920 trapped in the dining room that had just been set 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:57.600