1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, Jerry's here. Uh and 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: this is Stuff you should Know. Um, the long awaited 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Wright edition sort of yeah, kind of. I mean, 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's not a full biography, but it is 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: definitely covers some of his very dark period of his life. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one of the darker periods that any artiste 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: could have. And make no mistake, Frank Lloyd Wright wasn't artiste. 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: He was an artiste of architecture. Yeah. Have you ever 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: how many houses of his? Have you seen? Our buildings? 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: I've seen a bunch. Um. I've been to Holly Hawk 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, have been to uh Youth Sony and 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: I can't remember which one in Wa Washington by the 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: one of the I can't remember what other historic house 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: it's by. They moved it. Um. I've been to there's 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: a Usonian in Alabama. Chuck in Florence, Alabama, which is 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: really neat. Been to Falling Water, Um, been to Talius 19 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: in West I think that's it. Yeah. I've been to 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: a handful of myself. I've been to one in Tulsa 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: and a couple in l A. Of course, the Googgenheim. 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: I think we've both been there, and I have not. 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: I have not. Really. Yeah, all the times you've been 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: to New York and all the museums that you never 25 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: stepped footing the Guggenheim, It's true. I've never been in 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: the Googenheims. Sadly enough, I saw a movie where there's 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: a shootout in the Googgenheim. I highly recommend going to 28 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: the Guggenheim. It's great. Okay, I thought it was George 29 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: Costanza bit designed the googen him, not franklind Right. M 30 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: that's right. He always wanted to be an architect. That's right. 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: He's had. My favorite line for that episode is when 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: he talks about the redesign plans at the Guggenheim and 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: they go really, he goes, yeah, really didn't even take 34 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: that long. That's right. Yeah, he's saying that he was 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the one who redesigned it, like it's impressive that it 36 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: was just a really quick job. Yeah, that's a classic. Um. 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: But we're not talking about the Googgenheim to day, Chuck, 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: We're not even talking about Hollyhock House. We're talking about 39 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: specifically tally Essen, which is widely regarded as um Frank 40 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 1: Lloyd writes genuine bona fide masterpiece, like his greatest work ever. Um. 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: I think it was it said that it's his um 42 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: autobiography written in wood and stone, that it's just him 43 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: and not just him in a specific time and place. 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: But for like decades were the work, his earliest work 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: to his latest work all showed up and appeared over 46 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: time at tally Essen. Yeah, I mean there's a lot there. Um. 47 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: It was his home at times, it was his studio 48 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: of school. Um, an eight hundred acre estate. This was 49 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: family land, it was it was his favorite hill in 50 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: Wisconsin and the river valley there where his Welsh grandparents 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: originally homesteaded, and so it was very personal to him. 52 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: So he did things like make the roof so it 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: doesn't leak water into the offices below like some of 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: his other properties. Exactly. Yeah, he wasn't oneing to just 55 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 1: move his desk, right. So, UM, this this particular house 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: and it was a and it still is. It's a huge, 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: enormous house. I think it's twenty one square feet. Um, 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: it's a classic example of what's called the Prairie style, 59 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: which is a style of architecture considered to be the 60 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: first genuine American style of architecture UM that Frank Lloyd 61 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: Right founded back in they think the eighteen nineties, maybe 62 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: the late eighteen nineties, and it has it takes its 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: inspiration from the surrounding environment. It's been to blend in 64 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: with the environment, work with the environment, rather than to 65 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: dominate it. So there's a lot of horizontal lines, a 66 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: lot of natural materials, a lot of woodworking, and um 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: tally Esen is very much in that style. UM. I 68 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: think it has five and twenty four windows, which is 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: a lot of windows, and um it also has no gutters. 70 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: There's a lot of cannilivered roofs which kind of overhang 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: pretty far. Um, so there wasn't necessarily need for gutters. 72 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: But I read that franklod Right specifically didn't want gutters 73 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: because he wanted icicles to form on the eaves of 74 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: the roof so he could look out of those five 75 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: windows in the Wisconsin winter and see all the icicles hanging. 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: Do you like the prairie homes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. 77 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: My problem with Frankloyd Rice work is that it's so 78 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: dated an old timey that it almost like it almost 79 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: makes me um a combination of scared and nauseous. You 80 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. Have you ever looked at 81 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: a wicker wheelchair from like the turn of the last century, 82 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: You just kind of get the creeps from it for 83 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: some reason? Okay, you get that same. I mean this. 84 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: You know, he did the bulk of his work a 85 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: hundred years ago, you know, somewhere in that range. But 86 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: it was also like it was also very technologically um advanced, 87 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: and like he was just doing some really interesting stuff. 88 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: So the way that a very dated, once technologically advanced 89 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: piece of work can kind of call that weird feeling 90 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: out of you. But at the same time, I'm like 91 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: in genuine awe of this stuff you did. Like Falling 92 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: Water is one of my favorite houses in the entire world. 93 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just amazing. What about you? I like them, 94 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: all right, They're they're fine, um some of them. And 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: you know, I have some here in the neighborhood that 96 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: pop up every now and then. Some newer builds are 97 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: in the prairie style, and I like them more than 98 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: some other kinds and less than some other kinds. Let's 99 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: just say that you you like craftsmen, Well, sure, I 100 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: live in a craftsman That's that's my favorite. But I 101 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: like craftsman too. I think they're good. I appreach. I mean, 102 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: I love a highly slick modern home. I don't want 103 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: to live in one, but I love them. I would 104 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: not want to live in one. Either those are hit 105 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: or miss with me, Like, some of them are just 106 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: too just god awful. Some of them are just when 107 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: they hit the nail on the head, you're like, wow, 108 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: that's one of the best houses anyone's ever designed and built. 109 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: But they miss. It's almost like documentaries and horror movies. 110 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: There's a lot of them, but only very very few, 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: like are truly great. That's my that's my impression of 112 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: modern homes. Yeah, i'man. We're in architecture though, as a 113 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: as a couple, Emily nine, we watch a couple of 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: you might hear me, great, well that's two. It's a triad. Well, 115 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: I guess they're uni in there, and I guess, but uh, 116 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: we we have a couple of shows that we love 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: to watch that are this one called Grand Designs on 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: Netflix that I highly come in. Uh and oh man, 119 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: what's the other one? There's this cup not a married couple, 120 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: but a pair that travels the world. The British architecture 121 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: bake off. No, that's not it. I can't remember what 122 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: it's called. But Grand Designs is really good. I mean, 123 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: and they follow these, you know, sort of impossibly built 124 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: houses designed and built by these incredible lunatic dreamers who 125 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: are obsessed with sort of a thing. It seems to 126 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: be the common thread as these obsessives, and it leads 127 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: to something beautiful and great, you know, usually for sure. Yeah, so, um, 128 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: what are the things about Frank Lloyd Wright is that 129 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: he is including during his lifetime he's considered one of 130 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: the greatest architects ever lived, certainly the most popular, popularly 131 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: well known, maybe, I guess you'd put it like anybody 132 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: who's ever heard of any kind of architecture, even vaguely, 133 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: is probably familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright agreed. So when 134 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: he when he um put all of himself into Tallys 135 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: and he was building a home for himself, and I 136 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: think it was completed in nineteen eleven, and like it's 137 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: worth pointing out, he was returning to his childhood home 138 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: to the valley where his his clan like settled, Like 139 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: if you if you look around spring Green, Wisconsin, everybody's 140 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: got the name Lloyd in there somewhere, like his maternal 141 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: ancestors settled the area. And he was literally building on 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: this hill, his favorite hill when he was a child, 143 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: like you were saying, but he was doing this in 144 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: the midst of one of the biggest scandals like any 145 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: architect's ever gone through. Yeah, so uh, as you'll see 146 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: through this show. And if you know anything about the man, 147 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Wright had a bit of a wandering eye 148 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: and a bit of a philandering habit, and he had 149 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: a an extramarital affair with a woman name m A 150 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: m a h Mama, mama four huh. I don't know, 151 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: I've I've been testing it out too, I said, Mama, Mama, 152 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: sure bourth Wick and she was, um, you know. They 153 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: met in nineteen oh three, right, was in his mid 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: thirties at the time. He was already really famous as 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: an architect, and he was commissioned to design a house 156 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: for her and her husband, Edwin Cheney, and they were 157 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: it was going to be built there in Wisconsin pretty 158 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: close to Chicago, where Frank Lloyd Right was at the time. 159 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: She was pregnant in her mid thirties at the time 160 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: with her second child, and got really involved in in 161 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: sort of working with Frank Lloyd Right very closely, and 162 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: that sort of you know, the the classic story. At first, 163 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: it starts out platonic. One thing leads to another, and 164 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: before you know it, they're bumping uglies. That's right, smashing, 165 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: as the younger kids say, from what I just heard 166 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: that for the first time the other day, I didn't 167 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: know that was a thing. So it's a thing though. 168 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: Um So, frankloud Right by this time had six kids 169 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: of his own, and he had made a name for 170 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:09,119 Speaker 1: himself like around Chicago building homes, designing homes for um 171 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the well to do, especially in the Oak Park neighborhood. 172 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: Apparently just between nineteen hundred and nineteen he designed fifty 173 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: prairie houses. So he'd made a name for himself. But 174 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: apparently by the time I think nineteen o eight was 175 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: when he no. Nineteen o seven when they started their affair. 176 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: By the time nineteen o seven rolled around, he was 177 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: getting kind of tired of doing the same thing. It's 178 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: kind of like he was cursed like this. This school 179 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: of architecture that he developed was so popular that he 180 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: that's all anybody wanted, and he had gotten bored with 181 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: it by that time. So he seems to have been 182 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: unfulfilled professionally and kind of took it out on his family. 183 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: And about the worst way you could possibly take things 184 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: out on your family, short of cutting them up with 185 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: the machete. Yeah. By nineteen o eight, it was a 186 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: pretty much well known open secret in Chicago and that 187 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: high society in Chicago that this affair was going on, 188 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: and he was sort of looked down on from his 189 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: friends and his neighbors and his peers, different colleagues. His 190 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: poor wife, Kitty was a long suffering because she kind 191 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: of stood by a side anyway. Uh. And he'd realized 192 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: that he really wanted to leave his family, and he 193 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: did so. He said, I did not know what I wanted. 194 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to go away, and he did in September 195 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: of nineteen o nine. Uh, Frank left with her, went 196 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: to Europe, left his wife and his six kids behind. Uh. 197 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: And here's one of the more selfish quotes I've ever 198 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: seen from a husband and father. Uh. And this was 199 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: in his autobiography. So when family life in Oak Park 200 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: in that spring of nineteen o nine conspired against the 201 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: freedom to which I had come to feel every soul entitled, 202 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: I had no choice. Would I keep my self respect 203 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: but to go out of voluntary exile. So he really 204 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: felt um and you know, those were his words in 205 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: his autobiography. So he wasn't he had no illusions about himself, 206 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: but he very much felt that. You know what, Um, 207 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd right, and I'm a man, and I deserve 208 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: this by my right. Yeah, So those are two key points. 209 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: He's a man, so he deserved it. But more than anything, 210 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: he was a legend in his own mind, which was 211 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: sustained and verified by the public at large. But he 212 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: was Frank Lloyd right, So more than anybody, he deserved 213 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: that to to go do whatever he wanted, and you know, 214 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: whatever the consequences were for other people emotionally, to hell 215 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: with that. Um. One other thing that I think is 216 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: worth pointing out is that he had money problems basically 217 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: his entire life, despite the fact that I mean, this 218 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: man designed the Google him. He designed some of the 219 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: most iconic UM buildings and houses in the United States 220 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: and he had money just coming in by the truckload, 221 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: but he would spend it as fast as he could 222 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: get it and then some. So at this point in 223 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: time when he was um, when he left his family, 224 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: he apparently left them in financial straits as well. There 225 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: there was there's a biographer named um Paul hendricks and, uh, 226 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: Paul Hendrickson, I'm sorry, and he points out that there 227 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: was a nine grocery bill that was laying on the 228 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: kitchen counter when when Frank Lloyd Wright walked out on 229 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: his family, which I mean, at least pay the grocery bill, 230 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: so the family that you're leaving an alert can eat, 231 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So his his mistress left her two 232 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: kids with her husband. Uh, she went on a train 233 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: to New York City, met Frank at the Plaza Hotel. 234 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: They had a few days there of I guess smashing, 235 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: and then went to Europe and uh, you know, he 236 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: was famous the world over, so it's not like he 237 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: could lay low, very famous face, very a dresser of 238 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: fine clothing and those hats, so he didn't exactly blend 239 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: in anywhere he went. So he was found out in Berlin. Uh, 240 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune had a headline that said, leave families, semi colon, 241 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: nice little switch there, Elope to Europe and this whole time, 242 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: poor kitty, She says, it appears like any other ordinary, 243 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: mundane affair with the trappings of what is low and vulgar. 244 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: But there's nothing of that sort about Frank. Right, He 245 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: is honest and sincere I know him, my heart is 246 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: with him now. I feel certain that he will come back. 247 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: And that's that's one of the saddest parts about all 248 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: this is she was sort of like, he's just flandering 249 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: a bit and he'll come back to us. Yeah, it 250 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: is sad, but also, you know whatever his kids were 251 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: thinking too, like, well, I guess dad didn't love us 252 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: enough to stick around. Um another I think kind of 253 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: telling clue about Frank, Lloyd writes, enormous arrogance. Was he 254 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: called um his and um uh, what are we going 255 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: to call her, chuck mama, I'm calling her mamma his 256 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: and mamma's um flight to Europe to after a banding 257 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: their their families. He called it a spiritual hegaraga, and 258 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: I had not seen that word before. And it turns 259 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: out hegira or hegora h g g i r a 260 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: is what um Mohammed's exodus from persecution in Mecca was called, 261 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: and he left Mecca to go to Medina where he 262 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: founded Islam. And to Frank Lloyd, right, this is what 263 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: he and his mistress were doing when they abandoned their 264 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: families and fled to Europe. Yeah, he thought a lot 265 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: of himself. He was an s ob man, plain and simple. 266 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: I don't like he's a classic example of like having 267 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: to compartmentalize the genius of the work and just to 268 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: complete horrible nous of the person. You know, But it 269 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: can be done. It can be done. I I disagree 270 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: with anybody who who says, you know, there's certain exceptions, 271 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure, But anybody who says, well, this person held 272 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: some pretty pretty terrible views, so we shouldn't pay any 273 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: attention to their work from that point on, I disagree 274 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: with that. I think that there are tons of exceptions 275 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: to that rule. Although there are tons of exceptions to 276 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: the exception to that rule too. If that's not confusing enough, well, 277 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a personal decision. If someone wants to 278 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: never gaze upon falling waters again, then that's their choice totally. 279 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: It's not like I'm gonna you know, grab them by 280 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: their hair and like making them look but I would 281 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: disagree with them and in in a lot of cases, yeah, 282 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: like Manson's music fantastic, just beautiful, stuck, really good stuff. 283 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: So uh, Frank Boyd Wright Um returns to Chicago nineteen ten. Uh, 284 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: Mimall stayed behind. She stayed there in Europe for another 285 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: year because she was getting a divorce from Dwin Cheney. Uh. 286 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: And so she stayed there wrapping that up for Rank 287 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: moved back with Kitty. He had no intention of staying. Uh. 288 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: And I think it was pretty clear to Kitty at 289 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: this point because she said Mr Wright. I wonder if 290 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: he made her caller in that Mr Wright reached here 291 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: Saturday evening October eight and he has brought many beautiful things, 292 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: everything but his heart, I guess, And that he has 293 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: left in Germany, but he came back a bit of 294 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: a pariah. Oh, just to Tad, they were. They were 295 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: pariah's before. There was a woman who grew up living 296 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: next door to Mamma and her children, and she Um, 297 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: years later, in her diary, recounted a time when her 298 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: mom refused to give Frank Lloyd right cream when he 299 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: came over next door from next door to borrow some 300 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: and said that they were sinners and she wasn't going 301 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: to help them out at all. Um. So when they 302 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: left for Europe, made headline news for leaving their families. 303 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: And then he returns moves back in with his family 304 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: just long enough to plan his next home for him 305 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: and mamma um like. Yeah. The people in his social 306 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: orbit did not take very kindly to that. Professionals, neighbors, friends, 307 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: gossip colonists, basically everybody in the Midwest who had anything 308 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: to do with anything like we're rejected him in mamma yeah, 309 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: and to boot when he gets back because he needed 310 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: seed money for uh for his new home. He had 311 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: a benefactor named Darwin Martin, and he said, hey, listen, 312 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: I want to build this great cottage, uh, and this 313 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: affair is long over and this is going to be 314 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: a cottage for my mom, and I promise it's not 315 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: going to be our little smash shack, and so give 316 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: me twenty dollars to get this project going. He got it. 317 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: He moved into the home with his mistress and I 318 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: think by Christmas nineteen eleven they were officially living together 319 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: there in Green Spring. Yeah, he said thanks chump, thanks 320 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: for the money. And because just trashing Frank Lloyd Wright 321 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: as a person is a lot of fun, I want 322 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: to add this detail too, um Darwin Barton, his benefactor, 323 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: over the course of Frank Lood Wright's career, lent Frank 324 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: Lood right grand total and when the stock market crashed 325 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: in Darwin Martin lost everything like he was flatbrook was 326 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: went from an extraordinary, extraordinarily wealthy man to just flat 327 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: broke for the rest of his life. Frank Lloyd Wright 328 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: never repaid any of that money, but he made sure 329 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: that when his autobiography came out that Darwin Martin got 330 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: a free copy. Oh that's nice. Yeah, he really, he 331 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: really pulled that out at the last minute, didn't he. 332 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: All Right, So let's take a break and we'll come 333 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: back and talk about things taking a turn for the 334 00:19:45,560 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: worst a few years later in August of laws stuff 335 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: you should know, okay, Chuck. So let's just go ahead 336 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: and get in the way back Well I don't want 337 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: to see this. We'll just talk about it. We'll leave 338 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: the way back machine out of this one, okay. So 339 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: on on Saturday, August fifteen, around lunchtime, actually exactly at 340 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: lunch time. Um, Mama Borthwick. Uh, Frank Lloyd writes, Mistress, 341 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: longtime mistress, Um was sitting down for lunch on a 342 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: terrace at tally es In with her two kids. Uh. 343 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: To his great credit, Edwin Cheney, her ex husband by 344 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: this time, was not interested in keeping Mamma from seeing 345 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: her children as punishment, so they went to visit Um 346 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: pretty frequently. Uh. And this was a time when they 347 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: were visiting. So the three of them were sitting down 348 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: to lunch. John I think he was ten, and her 349 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: daughter Martha, who was eight, and Mama, Mama, We're sitting 350 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: down to lunch on the terrace. Okay, just put that 351 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: in your your pin, put that p in your hat 352 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: and smoke it. So that wow, really mixing metaphors. So, uh, 353 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: they're out on the terraces. Inside in the dining room 354 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: there are five of Franklin Dwright's employees, h Emil Burdell, 355 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: Thomas Brunker, David Lyndblom, Herbert Fritz, and William Weston and 356 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: then Weston's son Ernst. So they were all sitting down 357 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: to eat. Um. I think put a pin and maybe 358 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: both of these scenes and we'll tell you a little 359 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: bit about the handyman of the property named Julian Carlton, 360 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: who in the weeks and months leading up to this 361 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: date had been acting really weird. Uh. He was aggressive, 362 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: he was getting in arguments with other people. Um, he 363 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: was acting very strangely. He started sleeping with a hatchet 364 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: and a sack beside his bed. He was married, and 365 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: his wife, you know, verified this stuff. Um. He was 366 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: talking about killing people. And there was rumor that he 367 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: was being let go, and that there was that he 368 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: and his wife were already had a basically a trained 369 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: book to Chicago to look for other jobs. So this 370 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: is sort of the mindset of what's going on with 371 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: Julian Carlton at the time of this lunch, right. Um, 372 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: so Uh, Julian was actually so he was a handyman, 373 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: but at this point he he also helped out, helped 374 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: his wife Gertrude when she was cooking. He would serve. 375 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: So he served lunch to Mamma, and then he served 376 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: lunch to the five employees in the dining room. And 377 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: then as they were they started to eat, he approached 378 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: Um William Weston, the foreman of the whole jam William 379 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: Weston was a pretty important guy around tally Essen and 380 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: asked if he could go get some gasoline out of 381 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: the shed. I guess because he was going to clean 382 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: some rugs with it with gasoline. It was with gasolene y, then, 383 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: sure that's some old timey rug clinging if I've ever 384 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: heard of it. But UM, so so western. Sure, sure 385 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: of course, go ahead, and um things went really things 386 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: went downhill really quickly from from that moment on. Yeah, 387 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: so I appreciate you leaving this part to me. Um 388 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: Carlton comes back, Oh, I'll fill in. Don't worry. He's 389 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: got the gasoline and he also has an ax. And 390 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: the sequence is a little bit unclear. I've seen both 391 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: ways of which happened first. But he slaughtered uh Mama 392 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: Borthwick Borthwick and her kids on the porch and then 393 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: poured gasoline under the dining room doors and uh trapped 394 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: them in the room and set the dining room and 395 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: therefore the house on fire with everyone trapped inside. It 396 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: gets even worse than that, though. Um. After he had 397 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: slaughtered Mama and her kids with the axe and um 398 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: set the house on fire, he went around two window, 399 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: a dining room window where the people who are in 400 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: trapped in the dining room that had just been set 401 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: on fire. We're jumping to safety from and as they 402 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: jumped to safety, he ran after him and killed them 403 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: with the axe. He would finish them off there. Sometimes 404 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: they were on fire and he would hit them in 405 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: the head with the axe and killed them. And there 406 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: were nine people who were dining that day, and he 407 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: managed to kill seven of the nine. Um three people 408 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: survived the initial assault, the fire, and then the picking 409 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: off of the axe. The first guy who got away 410 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: was named Herb Fritz. He was a draftsman, a younger guy. 411 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: I think he's still a teenager who went on to 412 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: become an architect, I believe. But he he was the 413 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: first one to jump through the window, and so he 414 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: was able to get pretty far away from Julian Carlton 415 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: before Carlton noticed that people were jumping through the window 416 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: and came around to pick him off with the axe. 417 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: That's right, William Weston got out of the window. Carlton 418 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: hit him with the axe, thought he was dead, but 419 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't dead. In the meantime, Fritz, like you said, 420 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: he didn't even Carlton didn't know he was gone. So 421 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: he actually managed to get to the neighbors and contact authorities, 422 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: which in a up being you know, ended up sort 423 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: of saving a lot of the house because they helped 424 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: put it out. And the other guy who managed to 425 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: at least get out the window was David Lindblom. Uh. 426 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: He escaped with Fritz, So Fritz and Limblom. Like when 427 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: they ran into that house, it was like a half 428 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: a mile away, which was really significant that Limblom was 429 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: able to do it, because he was burned so badly 430 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: that he died from his burns, and yet one of 431 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: the last things he did on Earth was to run 432 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: a half a mile to to get help at the house, 433 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: the nearest house with a phone. Yeah, so, uh, you know, 434 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: people get there, they put out the fire. Um hours later, 435 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: Uh they Carlton was discovered in the basement of the 436 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: house in an asbestos lined boiler room. Uh. He went 437 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: down there to to die in the fire, but also 438 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: doubled up by drinking a bottle of hydrochloric acid to 439 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: make sure he did the job. And neither one of 440 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: them work. He actually survived both of those things. I 441 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: actually saw that he was in the furnace because he 442 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: was trying to survive the fire, and he didn't drink 443 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: the acid until he knew he was discovered. Oh see, 444 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: I saw the opposite that he went down to the 445 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: furnace because he wanted to die in the home. Huh. Yeah, 446 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: the reason the furnace made sense to me, or that 447 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: he was trying to survive in the furnaces that if 448 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: he couldn't escape from the house, that would be the 449 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: safest place because it was the middle of August and 450 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: the furnace wasn't on, so it would have conceivably protected him, 451 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: or else they would have turned into that that bronze 452 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: bowl torture thing, you know, the bronze bowl that you 453 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: put a human being in then light a fire under 454 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: the bull the bowl. Remember that sounds like a pretty 455 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: horrible way to die either way. Yes, it should be 456 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: restated that Julian Carlton drank what he thought was a 457 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: lethal dose of hydrochloric acid, Like that's how he chose 458 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: to try to end his life. Yeah, so there was 459 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: never any motive really rooted out. Um Uh. Clearly, looking 460 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: back now, he suffered from some kind of mental illness. 461 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: I don't think you can just all chalk it up 462 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: to a grudge over being fired because of his behavior 463 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: of their previous weeks and months. Um. And you know, 464 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: it's just one of those things. It was a time 465 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: where they weren't diagnosing things like that. So he clearly 466 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: had some form of mental illness, I think. And uh, 467 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: they never conclusively determined a motive. But like I said, 468 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: his wife Um testified that said, you know, we were 469 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: headed to Chicago, we were going to get work Um 470 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: and he ended up dying. Uh. But he couldn't eat 471 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: basically because he had torn up his stomach, lining in 472 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: his throat so badly with that hydrochloric acid. He died 473 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: seven weeks later in jail from starvation. Yeah. And another 474 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: interpretation I saw is that he Um had purposefully starved 475 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: himself because the acid didn't work. That it wasn't just 476 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 1: that he couldn't eat, but that he wouldn't eat, and 477 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: that he he died from self imposed starvation. Either. One's 478 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: pretty pretty terrible stuff. Just a brutal, brutal crime. Yeah, 479 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: And I mean, I agree with you. I think he 480 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: clearly Um was mentally ill, not just from the act 481 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: that he carried out, but also the the fact that 482 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: he'd been ranting and sleeping with an ax for weeks 483 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: leading up to it. But I think his perceived treatment 484 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: or outright treatment around tally Essen coupled with the idea 485 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: that they had been dismissed and that was going to 486 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: be their last day. Um, is I guess what drove 487 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: him over the edge. Yeah, so Frank you mentioned where 488 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: You've noticed we haven't mentioned him. He was in Chicago 489 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: at the time. He was working, uh, kind of finalizing 490 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: everything on the construction of Midway Gardens there in Chicago, 491 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: working with his son, John Lloyd Wright, who is his 492 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: second oldest and in the autobiography of John Wright called 493 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: my father who was on earth, uh said he remembered 494 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: an unnatural silence when the phone call came in, except 495 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: for his father's labored breathing, and then he came back 496 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: in the room and said, he said, what's happened? Dad? 497 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: And his father said, John, a taxi tali Essen is 498 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: on fire, right, And if you're not too big on 499 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd, right, you, um, you might be well, what 500 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: about the people who were murdered in his defense? He 501 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: apparently hadn't learned about that yet, and he learned that 502 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: there were some gruesome grizzly murders of a lot of 503 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: people he cared about, Um, but from reporters who were 504 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: shouting questions to him as he was going to the 505 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: train station to take the train from Chicago over to 506 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: uh Spring Green. Yeah. So Chicago newspaper headline reads the 507 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: end of lawless loves Um, you know, sort of a 508 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: sort of a sensational and cold way to treat these murders, 509 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: I think, Um, but they had been you know, they 510 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: had been all over their affair for years now. And 511 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: then chuck one other thing about Julian Carlton. Have you 512 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: ever been on that site find a grave dot com? Yeah, okay, 513 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: so I was on fine grave dot com. Part of 514 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: part of the purpose, for those who don't know, is 515 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: like to kind of memorialize, like leave a tribute or 516 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: something to to the person, the dead person. Um. And 517 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: sometimes it's very sweet, but other times it's very awkward. 518 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: And this was an awkward case because there was like 519 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: a little icon clearly shows up on every page on 520 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: Finding Grave, but it said, what's one thing you'll always 521 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: remember when you think of Julian? I'm like, probably the 522 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: ax murder slash arson killing of seven people always remember 523 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: he could really get a stain out of a rug 524 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: right with gasoline. Yeah, very very good at that. You 525 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: want to take a break, Yeah, let's take a break 526 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: and we'll talk a little bit about Frank's later years. 527 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: Right after this stuff you should know, h stuff you 528 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: should know. So this murder really uh and of course 529 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: the fire really really took a toll on Frank Lloyd right, 530 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: Um for the next you know, twenty years, he really 531 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 1: struggled with his work. Um, he struggled for uh, for 532 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: his freedom from the press obviously, I mean, he was 533 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: always in the press, but this it was worse now 534 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: than ever. And he did not suffer long. Romantically though, 535 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: he took up very quickly, uh with a woman named 536 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: maud Miriam Hicks Noel. She went by Miriam, and she 537 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: was an artist. She was a morphine addict. Um, she 538 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: was a fan girl. She they had a terrible, terrible, 539 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: abusive relationship. It seems like kind of both ways, like 540 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: a bit of a Sid Nancy type thing, going from 541 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: everything I could read. There were terrible people on both sides. Yeah. 542 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: So they he met when she was very young. She 543 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: said he hadn't been with me ten minutes before. He 544 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: said your mine. And they had a tenure courtship that 545 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: was very very dysfunctional, very mis bull And when he 546 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: got divorced in nineteen twenty two from Kitty, uh, he 547 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: decided at some point to marry I think about a 548 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: year later, to marry Miriam with that old mistake, thinking 549 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: things would be different once they get married. And that's 550 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: not at all how it went. They ended up splitting 551 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: up I think six months later, something like that. Um. 552 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: He said that to oppose her now in the slightest 553 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: degree meant violence. That's how how bad the relationship had become. Um. 554 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: So it was. I get the impression from this. Uh 555 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: this biographer Paul Hendrickson. The book he wrote, by the way, 556 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: is called Dreams and Furies of Frank Lloyd Wright. UM. 557 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: And it's like six hundred pages. I believe, um. But 558 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: he he does not paint a very flattering picture of 559 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: Miriam at all. No, no, not at all. Um. And 560 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: like I said, they were not good for each other. 561 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: It seems like uh Nino, after his divorce from Miriam, 562 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: he gets married a third time, him to uh old Ivanna. 563 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: Her name was Olga Lazovic Hinzenburg. She was married, She 564 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: was a dancer. They met at a ballet where she 565 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: was performing, and they actually had another kid. Frank had 566 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: a seventh child with her, um, a little girl in 567 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: n And Miriam comes back there and kind of tries 568 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: to wreck their marriage too. Yeah. She like when they 569 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: had their baby, she showed up at the hospital and 570 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: made a scene, which is a pretty nasty move. Um. 571 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: She refused to give him a divorce. She like would 572 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: talk to the papers about him. Um. She she uh 573 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: teamed up with Olga's ex husband or soon to be 574 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: ex husband. Um. She she definitely worked against him, but 575 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: I guess eventually either got bored or was bought off, 576 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: or just kind of went away, because from what I 577 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: can tell, Olga and Frank managed to carve out a 578 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: happy married life for themselves. Um. From the nineteen twenties, Yeah, 579 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: ninety four when they got married onward. I guess by 580 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: the time once Miriam left the picture, they were able 581 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 1: to kind of settle in until Frank's death in nineteen 582 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: fifty nine. Yeah, and Miriam actually got him arrested at 583 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: one point under the Man Act m A n N. 584 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Which was a law federal law that prohibits transport of 585 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: women and children across state lines for the purposes of 586 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: debauchery or prostitution. And I'm not really sure how that happened. Um, 587 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: it did not stick, obviously. He spent a couple of 588 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: nights in jail and then his the charges were dropped, 589 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: but he went into a long dry spell work wise. 590 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: Um did not get hired a ton over a certain 591 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: period of time, and then from the thirties to fifty 592 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: nine when he died, he did some of his best work, 593 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: maybe perhaps of his career. Absolutely, Um. He it was 594 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: during that time he did tali Us in West, which, 595 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: like I said, you mean and I went to we 596 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: went out to s Dotsdale, Um, and uh visited with 597 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: our friends Blair and Aaron out there, who are Scottsdale peeps. 598 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: And we went to tally Esen and it was just Chuck, dude, 599 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: have you been to that one? Haven't been to Taliessen West? Now. 600 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: It's it's really really cool, just the little just so 601 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: many details about it and there's a lot of fountains, 602 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: which is really refreshing in the desert. Um. It's just 603 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: a really great, neat little place for sure, and a 604 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: little I used that in the absolute wrong way. It's a. 605 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: It's pretty big, it's a it's a very it's a 606 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: charming place for sure. Yeah. And of course he did 607 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: the Google him after that. Um. Yeah, so it was 608 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: very productive period of his life. Um. Maybe should we 609 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: do more in Frank Loord Right in the future as 610 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: this it No, no, we'll we'll do the in true 611 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: stuff you should know style and just chip away at 612 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: different parts about his life and then do a full 613 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: biography on him years down the road. Sounds good. I 614 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: thought of another place I went a Frank Lord Ripe. 615 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: There's a Florida Southern College or university I'm sorry, is 616 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: um Frankloyd Right Design campus. It's amazing. You have to 617 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: check that out too. You should check it out. There's 618 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: like this really great covered walkway that you walk around everywhere, 619 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: and it's just it's it's really neat. You just feel 620 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: immersed in Frankloyd Right. It's not just you know, one 621 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: building or one house, it's a whole whole campus. I 622 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: love it. If you want to know more about franklod 623 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: Right and just go out after the pandemic ends and 624 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 1: start visiting some of his houses. And since I said 625 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: after the pandemic ends, uh, let's optimistically go on too. 626 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: Listener mail. No, no, sir, no listener mail today. I 627 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: think today we should take a little bit of an 628 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: opportunity to talk for a few minutes about our book. 629 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: Everyone's been really patient while we've plugged the pre sale 630 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: of this book. I think by the time this comes out, 631 00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: the book will be out. Is that right? Uh? Afterbably? Yeah, 632 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: Jerry can make it so, I think it is. But 633 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: if not, it's it's just before And uh, I finally 634 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 1: got the books delivered to my house in hardcover edition 635 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: and I got to hold it in my hand as 636 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: have you, and dude, it's great. I'm really I'm really 637 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: proud of the work that we did, along with Flat 638 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: Iron or co writer Nils, who's just an amazing dude. Yes, 639 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: our in our illustrator Carle Monardo, who did just an 640 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: amazing job throughout the book of bringing like just passages 641 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: that you didn't even think of just suddenly kind of 642 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,919 Speaker 1: came to life through our illustrations. Yeah, I mean, there's 643 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: an illustration of Momo, there's an illustration of my daughter. 644 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: They're nice little easter eggs in there. Uh. You know, 645 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: we haven't talked a lot about the contents of the book. 646 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: There are, um, we had a lot of fun with 647 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: the with the notes at the bottom, the footnotes. It's 648 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: really became kind of a fun part of the book. 649 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: We mentioned I don't even have a lost count how 650 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: many podcasts we mentioned, but we've notaate those in the end. Yeah, 651 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: and there were plenty that we we missed, Like I 652 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: did another like I shouldn't have done this, but I 653 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: did another like um like fine tooth comb, like just 654 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: scrape through of every word in the book. Of course 655 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: you did um to see you know what what podcasts 656 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: we needed to link to. And I was like, oh man, 657 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: I found like fifty of these so far. And I 658 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: emailed and was like, is it too late to add 659 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: footnotes or podcast footnotes? And nearly kiss that time has 660 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: come so edition, Yeah, yeah, exactly can we get these reprinted? 661 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: But I have the number here. Actually we have listed 662 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: in the book. We are referenced in the book. We 663 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: have two d seventy four references to other podcasts. But 664 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: here's a few of the chapters. We did. One on 665 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: Murphy Beds, one on back masking, one on aging um, 666 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: one on donuts. That's a great chapter. I love that chapter, 667 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: what else, Kama Kaze, Demolition, Derby's it's like stuff you 668 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: should know in book form. Is definitely And as we've said, 669 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: like none of these are just like an entire podcast. 670 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: It's more like, you know, we took maybe the history 671 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: of something or you know, one just one aspect of 672 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: one of the things and kind of dove into it 673 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: and flesh it out like that. So hopefully we'll be 674 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: able to turn these into full size, like podcast episodes 675 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: one day. That's kind of our intent. But even if 676 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: we don't, I think the book like really covers them 677 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: in an enjoyable way. Totally. Jack Caborcian, that was a 678 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: good one too, Keeping up with the Joneses. That's one 679 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: of my favorite ones. Yeah. Yeah, there's like twenty seven 680 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: just amazing chapters in there. Each one is better than 681 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: the last, and then astoundingly it starts back over and 682 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: somehow chapter one is better than chapter twenty seven. But 683 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, if you haven't bought it yet, I highly 684 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: encourage you to. It makes a great gift. Um, even 685 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: if the person doesn't even know who we are. It's 686 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: it's in the great tradition, I think of the great 687 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: bathroom readers. You can pick it up at any point 688 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: in the book and read any chapter and it's and 689 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: it's just a lot of fun. My daughter even likes 690 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: it because the pictures and she loves looking at the 691 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: back and going, there's you and Josh. I know, it's 692 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: very cute. It is cute. So one other thing I 693 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: want to say is like, we really appreciate you guys 694 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 1: who have already pre ordered the book or who will 695 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: buy the book, who bought the audio book, Um, that's 696 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: available to um. But if you can't, if you're like 697 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: I just don't have the money right now, or I 698 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: don't feel like spending the money, I just like the podcast, 699 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: that's fine too. Like we're not mad at you, UM, 700 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: but we appreciate the people who have supported us by 701 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: buying the book. UM. So thank you very much to 702 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: everybody who has or will buy our book, because that's 703 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: that's very kind of you and it means a lot 704 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 1: to us. And you can look forward to a kid's 705 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: version coming soon. Yes, right, yeah, eventually we're taking the 706 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,959 Speaker 1: same twenty seven chapters and kidifying it but without being patronizing. 707 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: So that'll swear books right now. We're taking the swear 708 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: words out the chapter I'm ascal didn't make the cut 709 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: in the kid's book. And um, I think, I mean, 710 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: I think this book is appropriate for kids as young 711 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: as like probably twelve years old. It's not like it's 712 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: it's not like it's dirty or anything. It's um it 713 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: might just be a little advanced for younger kids, but 714 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna make sure that the younger kids 715 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: have their version too. Yes, it will make every twelve 716 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: year old who reads our our the adult book really 717 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: want mescal. So anyway, thanks to everyone who's bought. It's 718 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: called Stuff you Should Know, an incomplete compendium of mostly 719 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: interesting things. You can get it wherever books are sold. 720 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 1: Of course, we encourage you to buy from independent bookstores 721 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: if you can, to try and keep them in business. Yep, 722 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: for sure. Um I guess that's it. Huh, that's it. Okay, Well, 723 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: thanks everybody for hearing us out about our book spiel 724 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: and if you bought the book or the audiobook, thank you. 725 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: If you can't get we love you anyway. Um so 726 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: don't worry about it. And if you want to get 727 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: in touch with us, you can send us an email 728 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: to Stuff Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff You 729 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: should know. It is a production i art Radio. For 730 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 731 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 732 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: M hm hm