WEBVTT - #136 Jason Flom with Steven Carrington 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.240 It was a new year, nineteen ninety five, and Stephen 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.000 Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.880 who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.680 gotten married. The young father was training to be an emt. 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.280 After having paid his debt to society, his life was 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.880 getting back on track. On the morning of January second, 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.720 nineteen ninety five, Stephen's brother Mark stood outside of a 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.560 lumberyard in Brooklyn as Shannon France and another man arrived. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.560 Mister France pulled the twenty five, announcing his stick up 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.520 as the other man Rob's customer, Hugh Keys. The store clerk, 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.240 tries to grab mister France's weapon and was shot. Mister 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.240 Franz loots the strong box and the two men fled, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.440 leaving mister Keyes alive. A confidential informant would tell the 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.760 lead investigator, Detective Calabreeze, the names of three men who 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.160 were seen by the lumberyard at the time of the crime, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:58.400 Shannon France, Eddie West, and Mark Carrington. However, when he 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.600 searched for Mark Carrington, Stephen popped up at the same 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.120 address and with his criminal record, Calabrigi added his photo 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.360 into an array. Hugh Keys gave a shaky identification. In 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.520 the absence of any physical evidence whatsoever connecting him to 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.560 the crime, Stephan went to trial right next to the 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.360 trigger man, Shannon France. The Carringtons hired a lawyer to 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.560 protect both of their sons, but it turned out to 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.720 be to the detriment of one of them. Mark was 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.320 never called to testify a trial, and twenty years later, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.360 finally free, Stephan Carrington is out on parole, but still 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.560 fighting to clear his name of a crime that he 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:40.880 simply didn't commit. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.280 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flumm. That's me. 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:00.480 I'm your host, and today we have a story an 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.800 outcome that we're going to hope that who knows, maybe 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.560 somebody out there can be helpful with because we are 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.200 fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.640 right in front of me now, Stephan Carrington. Stepan, as 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.000 I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:15.359 you're here. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.560 Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here having 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.000 an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:22.440 my name. 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.800 Yeah, that's what we're here for. Let's go back to 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:30.600 that original Faithful Day, January second, nineteen ninety five. What 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:32.400 happened that day in the lumber store. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.480 Basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:42.639 place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.640 people in the street, and things of that nature, because 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.880 you know, I wasn't dead when it took place. On 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.400 that day, they said that two individuals into the lumber 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.600 yard at a parent robbery which resulted to a homicide. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.120 One of the employee at the lumber yard try to 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.760 take a weapon from this individual and subsequently this guy 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.959 shot him twice and ultimately he died. Eventually he died. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.200 The two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:19.079 lookout and subsequently the person that is my co defendant, Shannon, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:24.119 his girlfriend best friend, is the one that gave his name, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.399 photos and everything to the police. There's a third individual 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.600 who name was Eddie Wes. And I have to say 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:36.200 that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.560 questioned sought after by the police department. 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.040 So Eddie West was the other guy in the store. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.560 Now, Eddie West was one of the individuals that they 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.440 mentioned that was out on the corner during the time 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:50.760 the robbery was committed. 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.920 Okay, Shannon Franz, though, was he had some involvement in 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:55.839 the crime? Is that right? 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.600 They found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumberyard. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.520 That's not a good science. No, they didn't find yours. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.160 No, they have no physical evidence or anything linking me 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.720 to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.240 to be outside with the individuals who was involved. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.599 So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard, and they 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:25.159 shot a clerk named Lloyd Campbell. Yes, both in the 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:26.000 head and in the back. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:26.479 Yes. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.320 And then they found the strong box, they looted it. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.320 The two guys fled the scene. Your brother was either 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.599 there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.560 He was apparently not in the store, that is correct. 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:46.200 So how did your name come to be associated because 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.120 it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.479 got your brother, now they're going to just go after you. 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.520 Well, I could just tell you from the police reports. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.760 The officers during the investigation when they received these names 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.640 and photos of these individuals. There was an address on 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.839 the photo, which was a promotional photo at the time. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.039 I had a recording studio, and we used to you know, 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.120 wrench studio time out to individuals. One of the group, Shannon, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.120 my co defendant. He was an individual who was in 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.359 the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.960 part of, and they had promotional photos up and down 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:28.200 the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:33.120 committed this crime on. It so happened that they committed 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:37.720 a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.840 his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.560 out there and eventually gave his name in the photos 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.600 to the police, to the detective Calabrise. When Calabrese was 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.080 doing his investigation, all he did was run the address 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.720 through the police system and my name came back because 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:01.120 I was parole to that address. So when they discovered 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:06.400 that I was on parole, the whole case shifted to me. 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.359 Detective Calibres is quoted as saying that he had a 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.000 gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.880 the description my brother was involved. He felt that if 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.240 I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.960 I had a prior and I was on parole, they 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:24.520 came for me. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.120 But you matched the description of the actual shooter, no 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:33.039 or the lookout No, whose description did you match? 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.440 He said, I matched the individual who robbed another patron 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.719 of this lumber yard, mister yu Keys. I didn't know 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.239 what he was talking about. In my mind, I believe 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.200 that eventually whatever they were trying to do with, you know, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.960 resolve itself. Because I didn't have I had nothing to 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.359 do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.679 think about this one phrase, you know, and it always 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.080 stuck with me that you you never get a second 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:04.520 chance to make a first impression. And because of my 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.520 past is why I'm here today now. I'm not a 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:13.160 goodie two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.640 I try to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.040 to be down. I brought up. My father's a pastor. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.400 I brought up in church. I went to church majority 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.800 of my life, and I wouldn't lie, you know, I 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:30.200 hated church. I was forced to go every day. I 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.840 wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.280 what normal kids do was kind of tough for me 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.440 because I was a free spreader. I like, so when 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.080 I was like seventeen, I try to move out and 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.000 so I started selling drugs with my best friend and 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.920 that's how I got into the life of criminality and 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.239 things of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:59.000 for drug seale robbery and I went to Rackets Island 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.480 and I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed, 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:11.440 got robbed, and as time went on, I knew that 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:17.080 this wasn't for me. Prison wasn't something that I wanted 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.760 to do. It wasn't a lifestyle that I wanted to live. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.240 And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.280 was going to lead me to prison, then I had 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.880 to do away with that, and not just those activities, 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.200 but also the people that I used to associate with, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:34.680 and that's what I did. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.800 You were really putting your life on track at this time, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.280 which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.240 had gone through some training to be an EMT right, Yes, 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.760 that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married, 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.360 recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:52.120 front of you. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.440 I had changed my life. I'd cut off all my friends. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.280 You know, I had a new born, my daughter. She 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.559 was only seven months when they took me from home. 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.199 It's sickening. I mean, and let's set the record straight 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.160 by talking about your alibi, which is a bit of 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.480 a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.720 but your alibi involves another woman, right. 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.240 Sad to saying, Unfortunately, the day that they accused me 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.920 of committing this crime, I was in the hospital with 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.800 my wife, and I was also with another female friend 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.760 before I was in the hospital with my wife. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.960 Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.640 set up in your parents' basement. A young lady came 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.160 to visit you there and spent the night. Now, unbeknownst 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.440 to you, your daughter had developed an ear infection. I 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.640 was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's no 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.040 cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around looking 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.440 for you, and she gets a hold of your mother, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.320 who walks the phone to you. Downstairs. You spoke with 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.120 your wife, assured her that you were at your way, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.240 and then you shower and get the hell out of there. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.200 When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.280 just like, hey, she's ry responsibility. Now I had all 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.000 and so you know, I did everything until the doctors 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.160 wanted to come in. She had an ear affection, so 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.600 they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this is 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.840 one of the things that baffled me even to today 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.040 with all the technology and stuff that they have, my 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.360 hands got captured in this X ray. When people read 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.720 this case, really sit down and read this case, they wonder, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.280 how did you get convicted? 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:24.880 You had a solid alibi. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.320 I trial. One person testified against me, and I had 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.439 four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:38.280 that testified against me mister yu Keys, And I feel 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.400 for him because I know that he's been duped because 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.760 he told the nine one one operator when he called 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.720 them during the day, that the crime was committed, about 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.040 being robbed, about the individual being shot, or what have you. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.920 And when they asked him to give a description of 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.800 the individual, he told him that he couldn't. He said 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.800 he never looked at the individual, that he never looked 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.000 at the person that robbed him. Wow, because he was 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.040 afraid too, because he seeing what happened to the guy 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.800 that got shot, He was afraid for his life. He 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.000 also told that to the first police that came on 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.680 the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calabris is 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.480 saying that this individual picked my picture up and said 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.680 this is the guy that robbed me. The district attorney 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.679 is saying that the witness didn't say that the witness 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.960 said that I looked like the individual that robbed them, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.040 But in all the police reports it's saying that the 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.240 witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.760 in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.840 said that I looked like the guy that robbed them, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.040 and if he sent me in person, he would be 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:48.160 able to identify me. But here's the catch. The witness 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.120 get on the stand and said that he never made 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:56.719 no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:57.960 did I become a suspect? 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.480 Right? Which one is it? 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.559 Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.439 you believe the detective who was saying that he positively 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.600 identified me as the person that robbed them, The district 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.640 attorney who was saying that the witness said I looked 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.319 like the individual, but he will be able to identify 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.640 me if he see me in person. Or the witness 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.200 who said that he never made no identification when the 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.720 police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:32.600 we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.920 thing that he knew, which he told the police, was 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.040 that the guy was dark skinned and stocky. 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.359 That described half of your neighborhood. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.680 When they asked him, well, how tall is this guy? 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.960 He don't know. Is he taller than you? I don't know. 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.040 Is he shorter than you? I don't know. Did he 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.199 have a bed, I don't know. Did he have a mustache? 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:48.720 I don't know. 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:50.040 For he didn't see him. 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.360 What do you know? He was dark skinned and stocky. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.760 They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.240 can't make the features out of the individuals, do perpetrators. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.600 You can't really make facial features out of anybody on 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.880 the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:17.000 and three quarter length copes, and he stated that he 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.880 couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the personal like. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.800 He don't know if they had a bed, mustache, anything. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.800 He was just dusking and stocky. So when you look 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.600 at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:33.559 That's not enough. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.840 He couldn't even identify hisself on the tape. During trial, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.440 the disc attorney had to reference something of what he 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:43.520 had on wait. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.200 Hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.760 the guy couldn't identify himself. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.559 Yes, when the DiscT attorney asks him to point to 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.280 hisself on the tape, he pointed to someone else. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:55.560 Wow. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.480 And then the disc attorney says something like this, is 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.520 that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's in the 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.520 checkerboard shirt or something of that effect. Right led him 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.520 to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.280 Okay, I've heard enough about that. Now we know that's 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.680 completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.400 window right off the bat. One of the things that 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.840 sticks with me is the idea that detective Calibreeds claimed 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.360 that he could recognize you from a security tape because 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:26.760 he could recognize your walk. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.200 Yeah. I believe that was the lynch pin. That's that 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.360 sealed my fate, because he got understanding and he pointed 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.920 me out in court and he said this is the guy, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.880 and they asked him how he knows and he says 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.200 that he could tell that it was me because of 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.800 how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.440 from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.560 But yet, you know, I believe that that was the 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.080 nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer. 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.560 They have a tape, and people believe even when I 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.000 was a appealing and I know that these judge never 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.720 viewed the tape, but because of the language and the 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.960 dialogue in the trial transcript, they even denied certain of 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.480 my appeals because they saying you were clearly sin on 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:13.080 the tape. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.040 The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.400 someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment for 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.640 war impairment exactly that's what I was looking for, is preposterous. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.040 I mean, the fact that they would even present that 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.920 as evidence, it's ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.600 are not funny at all. They're very real. So there's 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.080 there's that, and then there's the fact that you know, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.360 we know, we know what happened at the trial. That 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.920 you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.960 is correct, because your lawyer didn't submit his name on 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:44.760 the witness list. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:45.480 That is right. 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.200 Had he been able to, we don't We will never 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:49.920 know what he would have said in the moment. But 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.440 there's a realistic chance that he might have said something 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:53.600 that could have exonerated you. 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:58.280 Well, at that time, my opinion and believe is that 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.080 he wanted to come forward, and he did come to 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.800 court to testify. And what I realized later is that 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.560 my lawyer sent them home. When they started to question 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:12.400 my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they answered 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.080 truthfully that he was here, came to court today to testify, 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.200 and the district attorney stopped the proceeding and asked for 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.080 a sidebar so they can discuss certain things which the 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:31.800 sonographer records. And at this sidebar, the district attorney wanted 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.120 to bring up my lawyer on charges for lyon about 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.680 the whereabouts of my brother, because early that morning he 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.160 said he don't know where my brother was. He never 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.600 seen them, he never met him. And then it was 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.000 discovered later the same day that my brother was at 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:49.880 his office that morning and he sent them home. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.440 Wow, that's a big lie. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.280 And it's in the trial transcripts. I'm not making it up. 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.280 And he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.360 No, I mean, because it was right. It was early 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.600 that morning and trial was on and my brother came 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.960 to testify at that time, I believe the best. Now 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.560 I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.760 forward and trying to tell the truth about what really 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.679 took place or who was involved on things of that nature. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.320 Yeah, I mean, he's your little brother. You know, he 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.920 must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.159 imagine being in his place. He's trying to save his 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.320 own life. At the same time, you know, he's got 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.560 I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.240 this situation in the first place, because you talk about 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:39.720 how you never would have been in the system if 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.760 you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:43.840 But you also would have never been in this situation 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.479 if your brother hadn't have been involved in this thing 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:46.200 in the first place. 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.560 I think that I had set a bad president for 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:55.640 my brother. I believe I was part of the influence. Now. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.639 I don't know if he looked up to me, but 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.960 I believe that some of my actions are friends that 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.800 I had that was around probably also roughed off on him. Unfortunately, 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.639 I wasn't around for him when he started to engage 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.320 in activities and pick certain people as friends that I 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.680 could have probably said, you know, those are the guys 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.200 you shouldn't thing, because what I try to do was 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.560 distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.480 that point in time when I started to clear my 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:26.000 life up. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.480 I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.760 Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:32.960 gave it to me, right. 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.600 Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.639 do a good job representing you and that the truth 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.919 was going to come out. That's correct, and you were 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:41.400 going to go back and get on hold your life. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.560 But in fact, your lawyer was compromised. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.159 Yes, as it seems. I mean, he was kind of 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.800 like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.560 me and also to the people that were paying him 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:56.800 to represent me, and. 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.640 The people that were paying him were your parents. Yes, 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.920 it's almost like they had a Sophie's choice. They had 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.959 to choose what they did choose and don't if they 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.199 had to choose to save one child for me. 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.639 It is basically, and this was never spoken. This is 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.000 just my thoughts as I got a little older and 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.800 probably start to piece things together that you know he 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.679 had a pass you know he was in trouble before. 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.159 Maybe he could handle this and we would support him. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:28.480 But my brother, he's the baby, and you know, the 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.280 cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.199 clean slave and said they didn't want him. Even the 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.440 district attorney said that they had nothing to convict him on. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.480 So they look for the easy choice, the person that 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.840 had the record. If we can't get his brother, then 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:57.880 we're going to get him. You served twenty three years. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:03.040 Twenty three years in maximum security prisons in New York State. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:04.520 Yes, was there a. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.959 Worst moment and was there a best moment? 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.720 I mean I had a lot of not a lot 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.639 of bad moments, but there's a few. One of my 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.200 worst moments was when I was in green Haven in 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:25.119 two thousand and nine ten. I was in college. I 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:30.679 was taking Christian Ministry Human Services theology course. I was 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.639 working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.120 coming from study hall that have my books, and I'm 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:41.720 going back to my cell and I saw a crate 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.800 and I was like, let me take the create and 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.240 put my school books in because if anything happened to 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.320 the school books, I have to pay for them. This 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.600 is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.920 and waters dripping all over the place. Sometimes your toilet overflow, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.560 your sink overflow. Long story short of officers see me 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.879 with the create telling me to put it back. I 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.040 can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he he must 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.159 have spoke to another officer, because another officer calls me 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.199 back and started going crazy on me, like what are 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.840 you touching here? You know, don't eff in this, don't 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.880 eff in that. And you know, I just stood there. 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.200 I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:29.600 I'm'a just listen to him, you know, comply and you know, hopefully, 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.679 you know, I can go to my cell and lock in. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.320 And that wasn't the case, you know. So after he 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.760 started to berate me about, you know, touching stuff and 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.240 his unit and all this other stuff, I said, okay, 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:48.239 you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's the create and 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.359 I turned to leave. And I think at this point 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:56.040 in time he felt like I was dismissing him, you know, 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.600 or I left without his authority, saying okay, you go, 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:07.159 and he took offense to me turning to leave, and 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.240 he jumped on me. They beat me up. You see 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.679 my elbow, I left elbow. 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:16.040 Yep, he's got a giant nodding it right. 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.560 My shoulders still hurt to this day. They beat up 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.000 my elbows, they beat up my shoulders, they beat me up. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.080 They dragged me to the box, and they try to 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:30.119