Speaker 1: It was a new year, and Stephan Carrington was a
Speaker 1: young man with a short criminal history who had just
Speaker 1: gotten out of prison. He had recently gotten married. The
Speaker 1: young father was training to be an e. M. T.
Speaker 1: After having paid his debtist Society. His life was getting
Speaker 1: back on traffic. On the morning of January two, Stephen's
Speaker 1: brother Mark stood outside of a lumber yard in Brooklyn
Speaker 1: as Shannon France and another man arrived. Mr France pulled
Speaker 1: the twenty five, announcing a stick up as the other
Speaker 1: man rob's customer, Hugh Keys, the store clerk, tries to
Speaker 1: grab Mr France's weapon and was shot. Mr France loots
Speaker 1: the strong box and the two men fled, leaving Mr
Speaker 1: Keys alive. A confidential informant would tell the lead investigator,
Speaker 1: Detective Calabri's, the names of three men who were seen
Speaker 1: by the lumber yard at the time of the crime,
Speaker 1: Shannon France, Eddie West, and Mark Carrington. However, when he
Speaker 1: searched for Mark Carrington, Stephen popped up at the same
Speaker 1: address and with his criminal record, Calabrizi added his photo
Speaker 1: into an array. Hugh Keys gave a shaky identification and
Speaker 1: the absence of any physical evidence whatsoever connecting to the crime.
Speaker 1: Stephen went to trial right next to the trigger man,
Speaker 1: Shannon France. The Carrington's hired a lawyer to protect both
Speaker 1: of their sons, but it turned out to be to
Speaker 1: the detriment of one of them. Mark was never called
Speaker 1: to testify a trial, and twenty years later, finally free,
Speaker 1: Stephen Carrington is out on parole, but still fighting to
Speaker 1: clear his name of a crime that he simply didn't commit.
Speaker 1: This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me, I'm your host,
Speaker 1: and today we have a story an outcome that we're
Speaker 1: going to hope that who knows, maybe somebody out there
Speaker 1: can be helpful with, because we are fighting to prove
Speaker 1: the innocence of the man who's sitting right in front
Speaker 1: of me now, Stephen Carrington. Stephen, as I always say,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy you're here. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here and having
Speaker 1: an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear
Speaker 1: my name. Yeah, that's what we're here for. But let's
Speaker 1: go back to that original fateful day January. Um, what
Speaker 1: happened that day in the lumber store. Um, basically, all
Speaker 1: my knowledge of this saga story that took place I
Speaker 1: learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from people in
Speaker 1: the street and things of that nature, because you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when it took place on that day.
Speaker 1: They said that two individuals into the lumber yard at
Speaker 1: apparent robbery which resulted to homicide, wanted the employee at
Speaker 1: the lumber yard try to take a weapon for this individual,
Speaker 1: and subsequently this guy shot him twice and ultimately, um,
Speaker 1: he died, eventually died. Uh. The two individuals fled the scene.
Speaker 1: My brother was the lookout and subsequently Um the person
Speaker 1: that is my co defend and Shannon, his girlfriend best
Speaker 1: friend is the one that gave his name, photos and
Speaker 1: everything to the police. There's a third individual who named
Speaker 1: was Eddie West. And I have to say that neither
Speaker 1: my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, questioned, sought
Speaker 1: after by the police department. So Eddie West was the
Speaker 1: other guy in the store. Now, Eddie West was that
Speaker 1: one of the individuals that they mentioned that was out
Speaker 1: on the corner during the time the robbery was committed.
Speaker 1: Shannon France, though, was he had some involvement in the crime.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Um, they've found his fingerprints on the
Speaker 1: cash box inside the lumber yard. That's not a good sign.
Speaker 1: They didn't find yours. No, they have no physical evidence
Speaker 1: or anything linked me to the crime, besides having a
Speaker 1: sibling who was mentioned to be outside with the individuals
Speaker 1: who was involved. So these guys go, they robbed the
Speaker 1: lumberyard and they shot clerk named Lloyd Campbell, both in
Speaker 1: the head and in the back, and then they found
Speaker 1: the strong box, they looted it. The two guys fled
Speaker 1: the scene. Your brother was either there or not as
Speaker 1: a lookout whatever he was doing. He was apparently not
Speaker 1: in the store, that is correct. So how did your
Speaker 1: name come to be associated because it's sort of a
Speaker 1: leap to say, Okay, well they got your brother, now
Speaker 1: they're going to just go after you. Well, I could
Speaker 1: just tell you from the police reports the officers during
Speaker 1: the investigation when they received these names and photos of
Speaker 1: these individuals. Um, there was an address on the photo,
Speaker 1: which was a promotional photo. At the time, I had
Speaker 1: a recording studio and we used to you know, range
Speaker 1: studio time out to individuals wanted the group, shouting my
Speaker 1: co defending he was an individual who was in the
Speaker 1: rap group which my brother was affiliated with a part of,
Speaker 1: and they had promotional photos up and down the avenue,
Speaker 1: the same avenue that these guys went and committed this
Speaker 1: crime on. It so happened that they committed a crime
Speaker 1: across the street from his girlfriend's business, and his girlfriend
Speaker 1: best friend is the one that saw him out there
Speaker 1: and eventually gave his name in the photos to the police,
Speaker 1: to the detective Calabris. When Calabris was doing his investigation,
Speaker 1: all he did was run the address through the police
Speaker 1: system and my name came back because I was parole
Speaker 1: to the address. So when they discovered that I was
Speaker 1: on parole, the whole case shifted to me. Um. Detective
Speaker 1: Calibies is quoted as saying that he had a gut
Speaker 1: feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched the
Speaker 1: description my brother was involved. He felt that if I
Speaker 1: wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because I
Speaker 1: had a prior and I was on parole, they came
Speaker 1: for me. But you match the description of the actual shooter,
Speaker 1: um no, or the lookout? Um No? Whose description did
Speaker 1: you match? He said? I matched the individual who robbed
Speaker 1: another patron of this lumber yard, Mr u Case. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what he was talking about. In my mind,
Speaker 1: I believe that eventually whatever they was trying to do with,
Speaker 1: you know, resolve itself. Because I didn't have I had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with any crime. This situation, you know,
Speaker 1: had me think about this one phrase, you know, and
Speaker 1: it always stuck with me that you you never get
Speaker 1: a second chance to make it for a impression. And
Speaker 1: because of my past is why I'm here today now.
Speaker 1: I'm not a goodie two shoe. I wasn't and that
Speaker 1: is only because I tried to fit in with individuals
Speaker 1: I wanted, you know, to be down. I brought up
Speaker 1: my father's the pastor. I brought up in church. I
Speaker 1: went to church the majority of my life, and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't lie, you know, I hated church. I was forced
Speaker 1: to go every day. I wouldn't say a worse experience,
Speaker 1: but just not to do what normal kids do was
Speaker 1: kind of tough for me because I was a free spater.
Speaker 1: Like so, when I was like seventeen, I tried to
Speaker 1: move out and so I saw to sell drugs and
Speaker 1: my best friend and that's how I got into the
Speaker 1: life of criminality and things of that nature. And subsequently
Speaker 1: I did get rested for drug sale robbery and I
Speaker 1: went to Racket's Island and I had a traumatic experience.
Speaker 1: I got jumped, got stabbed, got robbed, and as time
Speaker 1: went on, and I knew that this wasn't for me,
Speaker 1: prison wasn't something that I wanted to do. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a lifestyle that I wanted to live. And if you know,
Speaker 1: selling drugs all these other stuff was gonna lead me
Speaker 1: to prison. And I had to do away with that,
Speaker 1: and not just those activities, but also the people that
Speaker 1: I used to associate with, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1: You were really putting your life on track at this time,
Speaker 1: which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You
Speaker 1: had gone through some training to be an E. M. T. Right. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married,
Speaker 1: recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in
Speaker 1: front of you. I had changed my life. I cut
Speaker 1: off all my friends. You know, I had a newborn,
Speaker 1: my daughter. She was only seven months when they took
Speaker 1: me from It's sickening, I mean, and let's set the
Speaker 1: record straight by talking about your alibi, which is a
Speaker 1: bit of a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a
Speaker 1: married man, but your alibi involves another woman, right, sad
Speaker 1: to saying, Unfortunately, the day that they accused me of
Speaker 1: committing this crime, I was in the hospital with my wife,
Speaker 1: and I was also with another female friend before I
Speaker 1: was in the hospital with my wife. Right, like you
Speaker 1: said earlier, you had a recording studio set up in
Speaker 1: your parents basement. A young lady came to visit you
Speaker 1: there and spent the night. Now, unbeknownst to you, your
Speaker 1: daughter had developed an ear infection. I was taken to
Speaker 1: the hospital that morning. Now there's no cell phones back then.
Speaker 1: Your wife was calling around looking for you, and she
Speaker 1: gets a hold of your mother, who walks the phone
Speaker 1: to you. Downstairs. You spoke with your wife, assured her
Speaker 1: that you were on your way, and then you shower
Speaker 1: and get the hell out of there. When I got there,
Speaker 1: you know, basically, my wife is just like him. She's
Speaker 1: very possibility. Now, I had all and um, so you know,
Speaker 1: I did everything with until the doctors wanted to come
Speaker 1: and she had an earfecture so they wanted to do
Speaker 1: an X ray. Now, this is one of the things
Speaker 1: that baffled me even till today with all the technology
Speaker 1: and stuff that they have, my hands got captured in
Speaker 1: this X ray. When people read this case, really sit
Speaker 1: down and read this case, they wonder, how did you
Speaker 1: get convicted? You had a solid alibi. I trial. One
Speaker 1: person testified against me, and I had four or five
Speaker 1: alibi witnesses that testified. The one person that testified against me,
Speaker 1: Mr you Keys, And I feel for him because I
Speaker 1: know that he's been duped because he told the none
Speaker 1: one one operated when he called them during the day
Speaker 1: that the crime was committed, about being robbed, about the
Speaker 1: individual being shot, or what have you. And when they
Speaker 1: asked him to give a description of the individual, he
Speaker 1: told him that he couldn't. He said he never looked
Speaker 1: at the individual. You that he never looked at the
Speaker 1: person that robbed him. Wow, because he was afraid too,
Speaker 1: because he seen what happened to the guy that got shot.
Speaker 1: He was afraid for his life. He also told that
Speaker 1: to the first police that came on the scene. But
Speaker 1: yet here it is Detective Calbies is saying that this
Speaker 1: individual picked my picture up and said this is the
Speaker 1: guy that robbed me. The district attorney is saying that
Speaker 1: the witness didn't say that the witness said that I
Speaker 1: looked like the individual that robbed him, But in all
Speaker 1: the police reports it's saying that the witness said that
Speaker 1: I'm the guy that robbed them. But in court, the
Speaker 1: district attorney is saying that the witness said that I
Speaker 1: looked like the guy that robbed him, and if he
Speaker 1: seen me in person, he would be able to identify me.
Speaker 1: But here's the catch. The witness get on the stand
Speaker 1: and said that he never made no identification of me
Speaker 1: prior to my arrest. So how did I become a suspect?
Speaker 1: Which one is it? Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now,
Speaker 1: who should you believe the detective who was saying that
Speaker 1: he positively identified me as the person that robbed him.
Speaker 1: The district attorney who was saying that the witness said
Speaker 1: that I looked like the individual, but he will be
Speaker 1: able to identify me if he see me in person.
Speaker 1: Or the witness who said that he never made no
Speaker 1: identification when the police came to his house on numerous occasions.
Speaker 1: Who should we believe this guy? He didn't know me.
Speaker 1: The only thing that he knew, which he told the
Speaker 1: police was that the guy was dark skin and stocking,
Speaker 1: described half of your neighborhood. When they are asking, well,
Speaker 1: how tall is this guy? He don't know. Is he
Speaker 1: taller than you, I don't know. Is he shorter than you?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Did he have a bid I don't know.
Speaker 1: Did he have a much stache? I don't know. For
Speaker 1: he didn't see him, what do you know? He was
Speaker 1: dark skin and stocky. They showed him the tape, and
Speaker 1: on the tape, you can't make the features out of
Speaker 1: the individuals to two perpetrators. You can't really make facial
Speaker 1: features out of anybody on the tape. But the perpetrators
Speaker 1: had on hats and hoodies and three quarter length copes,
Speaker 1: and he stated that he couldn't see these individuals. He
Speaker 1: didn't know what the personal like. He don't know if
Speaker 1: they had a bed mustache anything. He was just duskin
Speaker 1: and stocky. So when you look at the tape, all
Speaker 1: you see is shapes and sizes. That's not enough. He
Speaker 1: couldn't even identify himself on the tape. During trial, the
Speaker 1: disc attorney had to reference something of what he had
Speaker 1: on hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy
Speaker 1: that the guy couldn't identify him himself. Yes, when the
Speaker 1: disc attorney asked him to point to himself on the tape,
Speaker 1: he pointed to someone else. And then the disc attorney says, um,
Speaker 1: something like this is that you with the checkerboard shirt?
Speaker 1: Or who's who's in the checkerboard shirt or something of
Speaker 1: that effect right led him to basically say, oh, and
Speaker 1: then that's me standing right here. Okay, I've heard enough
Speaker 1: about that. Now we know that's completely unreliable and out.
Speaker 1: That should have been out the window right off the bat. Uh.
Speaker 1: One of the things that sticks with me is the
Speaker 1: idea that detective Caliber has claimed that he could recognize
Speaker 1: you from a security tape because you could recognize your walk. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I believe that was the lynch pin. That's that sealed
Speaker 1: my fate, because he got to understanding and he pointed
Speaker 1: me out in court and he said this is the guy,
Speaker 1: and they asked him how he knows and he says
Speaker 1: that he could tell that it was me because of
Speaker 1: how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator
Speaker 1: from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court.
Speaker 1: But yet, you know, I believe that that was the
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer.
Speaker 1: They have a tape, and people believe even when I
Speaker 1: was healing, and I know that these judges never viewed
Speaker 1: the tape, but because of the language and the dialogue
Speaker 1: and the trial transcript, they even denied certain of my
Speaker 1: appeals because they saying you were clearly seen on the tape.
Speaker 1: The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of
Speaker 1: someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment, for
Speaker 1: impairment exactly what I was looking for, is preposterous. I mean,
Speaker 1: the fact that they would even present that as evidence
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences are not
Speaker 1: funny at all. They're very real. So there's there's that,
Speaker 1: and then there's the fact that you know, we know,
Speaker 1: we know what happened at the trial, that you know
Speaker 1: your brother was not allowed to testify. That is correct
Speaker 1: because your lawyer didn't submit his name on the witness list.
Speaker 1: Had he been able to, we don't. We never will
Speaker 1: never know what he would have said in the moment,
Speaker 1: but there's a realistic chance that he might have said
Speaker 1: something that could have exonerated you well at that time.
Speaker 1: My opinion and belief is that he wanted to come forward,
Speaker 1: and he did come to court to testify. And what
Speaker 1: I realized later is that my lawyer sent them home.
Speaker 1: When they started to question my parents about my brother
Speaker 1: and his whereabouts, they answered truthfully that he was here,
Speaker 1: came to court today to testify, and the distric attorney
Speaker 1: stopped the proceeding and asked for a sidebar so they
Speaker 1: can discuss certain things which the scenographer records. And at
Speaker 1: this sidebar, the disc attorney wanted to bring up my
Speaker 1: lawyer on charges for lying about the whereabouts of my brother,
Speaker 1: because earlier that morning he said he don't know where
Speaker 1: my brother was. He never seen them, he never met him.
Speaker 1: And then it was discovered later the same day that
Speaker 1: my brother was at his office that morning and he
Speaker 1: sent them home. Wow, that's a big lie, and it's
Speaker 1: in the trial transcripts. I'm not making it up. And
Speaker 1: he didn't he didn't forget that he saw your brother
Speaker 1: that day. I mean, because it was right, it was
Speaker 1: early that morning and trial was on and my brother
Speaker 1: came to testify at that time. I believe the best.
Speaker 1: Now I understand why a person would be apprehensive for
Speaker 1: coming forward and trying to tell the truth about what
Speaker 1: really took place or who was involved things of that nature. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's your your little brother. You know,
Speaker 1: he must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine being in his place. He's trying to save
Speaker 1: his own life at the same time. You know, he's
Speaker 1: got I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you
Speaker 1: in this situation in the first place, because you talked
Speaker 1: about how you never would have been in the system
Speaker 1: if you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger.
Speaker 1: But you also would have never been in this situation
Speaker 1: if your brother hadn't been involved in this thing in
Speaker 1: the first place. I think that I have said a
Speaker 1: bad president for my brother. I believe I was part
Speaker 1: of the influence. Now. I don't know if he looked
Speaker 1: up to me, but I believe that some of my
Speaker 1: actions are friends that I had that was around probably
Speaker 1: also ropped off on him. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for
Speaker 1: him when he started to engage in activities and pick
Speaker 1: certain people as friends that I could have probably said,
Speaker 1: you know, those those are the guys you shouldn't think
Speaker 1: because what I tried to do was distance myself from
Speaker 1: everyone that was in my neighborhood at that point in
Speaker 1: time when I started to claim my life up. I mean,
Speaker 1: you basically took the fall for your brother. Well, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that I took the fall. They gave it
Speaker 1: to me, right. Your last hope was that your lawyer
Speaker 1: was going to do a good job representing you and
Speaker 1: that the truth was going to come out. That's correct,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna go back and get him with your life.
Speaker 1: But in fact, your lawyer was compromised. Um, yes, as
Speaker 1: it seems. I mean, he was kind of like conflicted
Speaker 1: in between his duties as a lawyer to me and
Speaker 1: also to the people that were paying him to represent
Speaker 1: me and the people that were paying him with your parents. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's almost they had a selfie's choice, that had to
Speaker 1: choose what they did choose and if they had to
Speaker 1: choose to save one job for me. It is basically,
Speaker 1: and this was never spoken. This is just my thoughts
Speaker 1: as I got a little older and probably start to
Speaker 1: piece things together that you know, he had a pass,
Speaker 1: you know he was in trouble before. Maybe he could
Speaker 1: handle this and we would support him. But my brother,
Speaker 1: he's the baby. And you know the cops wasn't looking
Speaker 1: for him. They already gave him a clean slave and
Speaker 1: said they didn't want him. Even the district attorney said
Speaker 1: that they had nothing to convict him on. So they
Speaker 1: look for the easy choice, the person that had the record.
Speaker 1: If we can't get his brother, then we're going to
Speaker 1: get him. You served UM twenty three years twenty three
Speaker 1: years and maximum security prisons in New York State. Was
Speaker 1: there a a worst moment um and was there a
Speaker 1: best moment? I mean I had a lot of not
Speaker 1: a lot of bad moments, but there this this fear.
Speaker 1: One of my worst moments. When I was in green
Speaker 1: Haven in two thousand and I was in college. I
Speaker 1: was taking up Christian Ministry Human Services UM theology course.
Speaker 1: I was working in the barbershop and this particular day,
Speaker 1: I was coming from study hall that have my books,
Speaker 1: and I'm going back to my cell and I saw
Speaker 1: a crate and I was like, let me take the
Speaker 1: crateing put my school books in because if anything happened
Speaker 1: to the school books, I have to pay for. This
Speaker 1: is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks
Speaker 1: and waters, dripping all over the place. Sometimes you toil
Speaker 1: it over floor, your sinkle will flow. So long story show.
Speaker 1: The officers see me with the crate, tell me to
Speaker 1: put it back. I can't have it, and I complied.
Speaker 1: Supposedly he must have spoke to another officer because another
Speaker 1: officer calls me back and started going crazy on me,
Speaker 1: like what are you touching here? You know, don't and this,
Speaker 1: don't and that, and you know, I just stood there.
Speaker 1: I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just listen to him, you know, comply and
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully, you know, I can go to my
Speaker 1: cell and lock in. And that wasn't the case, you know.
Speaker 1: So after he started to berape me about you know,
Speaker 1: touching stuff in his unit and all this other stuff,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's
Speaker 1: the crate. And I turned to leave. And I think
Speaker 1: at this point in time he felt like I was
Speaker 1: dismissing him, you know, or I left without his authority,
Speaker 1: saying okay, you go, and he took offense to me
Speaker 1: turning to leave, and he jumped on me. They beat
Speaker 1: me up. You see my elbow. M I left elbow.
Speaker 1: I've got a giant nodded it right. My shoulders still
Speaker 1: hurt to this day. They beat up my elbows, they
Speaker 1: beat up my shoulders, they beat me up, They dragged
Speaker 1: me to the box, and they try to charge me
Speaker 1: with a soul. And that was like for me the
Speaker 1: worst day because everything that I was doing, I never
Speaker 1: had no physical altercations while I was in with inmates,
Speaker 1: all officers, anything of that nature. And I'm fighting my
Speaker 1: case and the only thing that's come into my mind
Speaker 1: is that maybe I have an opportunity to get out
Speaker 1: to prison for my case. But if they try to
Speaker 1: convict me for assault on the staff, which mostly everybody
Speaker 1: gets convicted of, you know, I just see my lights
Speaker 1: go out. It's your word against officer words. And more
Speaker 1: than one officer is going to say that you didn't
Speaker 1: what you didn't do. And it's funny to me because
Speaker 1: it's like I'm saying to myself, like God, how does
Speaker 1: stuff and keep happening to me? And my parents they're
Speaker 1: so religious that you know they would hit you with
Speaker 1: you haven't submitted to God yet, you haven't let go.
Speaker 1: You're being tested, You're going through the fire, and you know,
Speaker 1: I cried like a baby because I've seen my lights
Speaker 1: go out. And maybe this was also the opportunity that
Speaker 1: I've seen God working in my life. Because subsequently, guys
Speaker 1: that knew me, that locked on the company with me,
Speaker 1: they have wrote this Attorney's General Office to inspect the general.
Speaker 1: They have wrote Prison Legal Services, and and I never
Speaker 1: knew that people probably watched me or cared about me
Speaker 1: like that. I'm talking about inmates, hard and criminals or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the inspect the general one the inspect the generals
Speaker 1: came to see me, and I've written to them again, um,
Speaker 1: because one of the guys inside the shoe area had
Speaker 1: told me, listen, you need to write these people. You
Speaker 1: need to write this person data data that. So I
Speaker 1: was getting advice from individuals or who I have to write,
Speaker 1: who I have to contact to try to get from
Speaker 1: underneath this, and um, so I wrote them as well.
Speaker 1: And when they came to see me, you know, we talked.
Speaker 1: He says, well, we have to do our investigation and
Speaker 1: stuff for that nature. And then they came to see me,
Speaker 1: and I guess this is the first time in my
Speaker 1: life that I could say that I've seen the hand
Speaker 1: of God, because when he called me and they interviewed me.
Speaker 1: He says, Um, I have good news and bad news.
Speaker 1: The good news is that we're not going to charge
Speaker 1: you with assault on staff because I've read all the
Speaker 1: reports that came in. I read the police reports, and
Speaker 1: I read not just your report, but I got several
Speaker 1: letters written from other inmates who have witnessed what took place.
Speaker 1: And I know that you didn't have contact with these
Speaker 1: individuals because they brought you to the box and it
Speaker 1: says your story and their story adds up, and none
Speaker 1: of the police stories adds up. But you have to
Speaker 1: go through the formalities. I still had their hearing to
Speaker 1: go to. And this is how corrupt the Department of
Speaker 1: Corrections is. I remember the officer that had the altercation
Speaker 1: with me, that smacked me in my face and hit
Speaker 1: me with the sticks and all that, and it was
Speaker 1: two other officers there, but I didn't remember the too.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I remember the one is because
Speaker 1: as he was my company officer, he's there every day.
Speaker 1: The officer that comes in the hearing was in the
Speaker 1: officer that that that hit me or I had the
Speaker 1: altercation with It was somebody else. And we're going through
Speaker 1: the formalities and questioning the officer and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So the officers said that we were standing right shoulder,
Speaker 1: the right shoulder, and I took my left hand and
Speaker 1: punched him on the left side of his face. That
Speaker 1: caused him to bust his head on the pipes and
Speaker 1: bust his head open. And when I started to play
Speaker 1: if we stand the right shoulder to shoulder and I
Speaker 1: hit him with my left hand on the left side
Speaker 1: of his face, how is that possible. I would have
Speaker 1: to go over It's not come back and hit him.
Speaker 1: And you know so, so I asked the officer to
Speaker 1: demonstrate this punch. Can you demonstrate how I hit you
Speaker 1: with my left hand on the left side of your face?
Speaker 1: If we stand the right shoulder the right shoulder, I
Speaker 1: would like for you to demonstrate this. And the heroing
Speaker 1: officer said that there will be no demonstrations in here,
Speaker 1: so he never got to demonstrate, and I, you know, objected,
Speaker 1: and I told him that it's impossible that that can
Speaker 1: take place. Long story short, The officer that wrote the
Speaker 1: report or that they brought in that said he wrote
Speaker 1: the report. I asked him, did he see the police
Speaker 1: hit me? And he said yes. So then I asked them, then,
Speaker 1: why is it not written in the report that the
Speaker 1: police struck me. The lieutenant looks and he's like, I said,
Speaker 1: It's not in the ticket, is not in the two
Speaker 1: firm reports, is not in any document that was given
Speaker 1: to me. So the lieutenant asked the CEO, why is that?
Speaker 1: And maybe at this time he was afraid. I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is, but I believe at this point
Speaker 1: in time, this is when I've seen God worked in
Speaker 1: my life. And he tells the truth. He says, I
Speaker 1: didn't write the report. The lieutenant said, you didn't write
Speaker 1: the report. He said, no, I didn't write the report.
Speaker 1: He said, who wrote the report? He said, a sergeant
Speaker 1: such and such wrote the report. He said, where was
Speaker 1: the sergeant when the incident happened? He wasn't there. The
Speaker 1: sergeant wrote the report, made another officer sign it and
Speaker 1: sit in the hearing as the officer who witnessed what
Speaker 1: took place and knew nothing about it, and they dismissed
Speaker 1: the case. Amen to that, um or, you might not
Speaker 1: be here now so and we know now that you paroled,
Speaker 1: And I want to get to that because that's a
Speaker 1: really extraordinary story in and of itself. I think it
Speaker 1: says a lot about what the parole board really thought
Speaker 1: about your claims of innocence. But before we get to that,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about what was going on on
Speaker 1: the outside. Because there was a guy in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I mean, can we mention his name? Well, for legal purposes,
Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't like to mention his name. He
Speaker 1: called My case is still being reviewed by the Convention
Speaker 1: Review Unit. So, but this individual was a childhood friend
Speaker 1: of mine. We had um I haven't seen each other
Speaker 1: in years, and he had moved away from the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: And when he came back to the neighborhood, he was looking,
Speaker 1: you know for old friends, and you know, subsequently he
Speaker 1: was looking for me and heard that I was in prison.
Speaker 1: So he wanted to know why, and the whole story
Speaker 1: came out and he couldn't believe it. You know, he
Speaker 1: took it upon himself to try to help me. How
Speaker 1: did you do that? Well, the individual who actually committed
Speaker 1: a crime used to see him all the time, and
Speaker 1: because he's still living in the neighborhood, mostly people that
Speaker 1: knew both of us, he would ask them, you know,
Speaker 1: how they felt about him, and was he still you know,
Speaker 1: like welcome or they still had love for him, knowing
Speaker 1: that I was in prison serving time for a crime
Speaker 1: that he committed. And my friend, he was like he
Speaker 1: couldn't believe this, and he's like, this guy just keeps
Speaker 1: saying that he did it. He did it, and he's
Speaker 1: the reason why you're in prison. You know, he wrote
Speaker 1: my letter. I showed you the letter that he wrote.
Speaker 1: And he took it upon himself too to record this individual,
Speaker 1: to tape him saying the same things about me being
Speaker 1: in prison for a crime he committed. And he even
Speaker 1: went as far as that he used to he does
Speaker 1: security bouncing work because he's six eight, three hundreds something pounds,
Speaker 1: And this is God again in my life. He's so
Speaker 1: happened to be working doing security at a spot where
Speaker 1: Detective Calbies, leading detective in my case, was also working.
Speaker 1: What's the as of that m pretty long, and he
Speaker 1: spoke the Calibies about the case and told him that
Speaker 1: he had the wrong person in prison for the crime.
Speaker 1: What Calibaries saying. Calibies just told him tell his brother
Speaker 1: to come forward and he can get out. That was
Speaker 1: his words, Secause Calibries knew and he had told me
Speaker 1: as much when he brought me in, you know, because
Speaker 1: he was like, where's your brother, where's his friends? And
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not my brother's keeper.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't live with my brother. I lived
Speaker 1: with my wife. But he didn't care about that. And
Speaker 1: you know, once things start to unravel in the conviction
Speaker 1: review unit and they start to review my case. They
Speaker 1: reached out to him two to three weeks after they
Speaker 1: reviewed my case and next thing, you know, self inflicted
Speaker 1: wounds somewhere in his car. You know, it took his
Speaker 1: own life. Yeah, it seems like his conscience may have
Speaker 1: gotten to him. We will never know, um because he
Speaker 1: didn't leave a note or anything, right, but the timing
Speaker 1: seems really um to be suspicious. Yeah, I mean, the
Speaker 1: conviction review unit that starts looking into your case, it's
Speaker 1: inevitable that they're going to find out what happened. Because
Speaker 1: the conviction review unit in Brooklyn, I can say this,
Speaker 1: they don't funk around. But these guys are under the
Speaker 1: leadership of Eric Gonzalis and before that, Ken Thompson. They
Speaker 1: are committed to finding and identifying and resolving wrong for
Speaker 1: conviction cases and they've been doing it and then walking
Speaker 1: the walk. And so once they took over reinvestigating your case,
Speaker 1: Detective Calibrizi must have known that some of his misdeeds
Speaker 1: were going to become public. Yes, he did everything from
Speaker 1: interviewing the witnesses to getting the fillers for the lineups,
Speaker 1: conducting the lineup. I mean, nobody else did anything. His
Speaker 1: name is on all the reports. So the guy who
Speaker 1: holds the key is dead. Now you went to the
Speaker 1: parole board. Yes, and you did exactly the opposite of
Speaker 1: what all the smartest people you knew were the most
Speaker 1: wisest people. I should say, we're advising you to do right.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, you know. I was very apprehensive
Speaker 1: as a russell with it. You know, if my wife
Speaker 1: was here, she would tell you, you know, because knowing
Speaker 1: what I know now, I had told her and I
Speaker 1: told her before that f I had a chance to
Speaker 1: do this all over again, I probably would have copped
Speaker 1: out to something less right. So I was gonna say
Speaker 1: is when you go to the parole board, the general rule,
Speaker 1: and this is with very very rare exceptions, the parole
Speaker 1: board wants to hear you express remorse for the crime.
Speaker 1: Whether you committed it or not. They don't know whether
Speaker 1: you committed it. They don't have time to reinvestigate it.
Speaker 1: In New York State, the parole Board is reviewing ten
Speaker 1: thousand cases, around ten thousand cases a year, and there's
Speaker 1: only somewhere between twelve and nineteen people for the entire
Speaker 1: state in panels of three. So they have a few
Speaker 1: minutes to look into your case. They're not. They don't
Speaker 1: have time to go through it, even like we're doing now.
Speaker 1: So it would be great if they did, but they don't.
Speaker 1: The only human beings, they only you know, they don't
Speaker 1: have so much time in a day. So the logical
Speaker 1: thing to do for somebody like you who is desperate
Speaker 1: to get out and get back with your family and
Speaker 1: get back on, you know, to your life, is to
Speaker 1: just plead guilty. And then they're most likely going to say, okay,
Speaker 1: well you've served twenty three years and you've done you know,
Speaker 1: ministry and all this other stuff in prison. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can go home now. But you didn't know. And I
Speaker 1: mean I rustle with it. I prayed about it because
Speaker 1: I want to go home. You know, what should I do?
Speaker 1: I mean, even though all these years I'm telling him
Speaker 1: I didn't commit the crime. Now I'm note for parole.
Speaker 1: What do I do do I go in there and
Speaker 1: put on the show and say that I'm remorse and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry and that you know, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to say but the truth, and I rustle
Speaker 1: with it. And I mean, like people was telling me,
Speaker 1: don't go in there and tell them that you didn't
Speaker 1: do it. You're they're gonna hit you, They're going to
Speaker 1: give you more time. And I said, well, I'm going
Speaker 1: in there and I'm gonna tell them what I've been
Speaker 1: telling them since the beginning. I didn't commit the crime,
Speaker 1: but I understand why it's possible for individual like me
Speaker 1: to be considered for a crime such as this, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna give them mind story about my past,
Speaker 1: how I came to be here today, and what I've
Speaker 1: done since I was incarcerated, and what I planned to
Speaker 1: do when I get out. And for that whole ten
Speaker 1: days after that, I had to wait to get the results,
Speaker 1: seven or ten days. It was the worst week of
Speaker 1: my life. No sleep because that whole week already felt
Speaker 1: because the way that they spoke to me inside the
Speaker 1: parole board, I felt that there wasn't going to release me.
Speaker 1: My counsel gives me the envelope. I opened it, and
Speaker 1: to be honest, my eyes are teared up because I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm looking for the worst. And it's sad to
Speaker 1: say I'm looking for denial. I'm just looking for any
Speaker 1: word with a D for denial, refused whatever, and I
Speaker 1: didn't see and my counsels like, um, you're okay. I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just um, I can't find the decision. So he's like, well,
Speaker 1: give it to me, and he highlights it he knew
Speaker 1: before and he gave it back to me, and I
Speaker 1: can't believe it. They let me go and I'll be
Speaker 1: lying out of there, you know, call my family and
Speaker 1: told them and it was overjoyed, but it was. It's
Speaker 1: still a lot now just thinking about it. I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: Nobody can imagine that hasn't been through it. You know,
Speaker 1: that was the best moment for me in prison. That
Speaker 1: and and learning some stuff about myself because you know,
Speaker 1: like I became the director to US assistant program and
Speaker 1: I used to mentor teams that used to bring high
Speaker 1: school kids in and I used to speak to them
Speaker 1: about my life story. Boy, how I end up serving
Speaker 1: a life scientis for a crime I didn't commit. And
Speaker 1: how easy it is for you define yourself in situations
Speaker 1: like this by the company that you keep in choices
Speaker 1: that you make and the brochure that I had pen
Speaker 1: had the title. You know, you never get a second
Speaker 1: chance for or suppression. It's been an extraordinary experience for
Speaker 1: me getting to know you and learning about your story.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, I thank you for coming in
Speaker 1: and sharing it, and I think that through your words
Speaker 1: it's going to inspire a lot of people to keep
Speaker 1: fighting whatever they're up against. And now it's time for
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show. Fans of the podcast,
Speaker 1: no that this is uh the time when I turned
Speaker 1: off my microphone and just sit back and leave your
Speaker 1: microphone on. For closing arguments, I guess the one of
Speaker 1: the most things that I could possibly say is for
Speaker 1: is for jurors, because district attorneys is going to be them.
Speaker 1: They trying to win cases. Officers are trying to lock
Speaker 1: people up. But as a juror is your job to
Speaker 1: discern the truth, to find the truth, and sometimes I
Speaker 1: guess they get more clouded by what took place as
Speaker 1: opposed to what is the truth, and so emotions come
Speaker 1: into play with everything as opposed to rational and that's
Speaker 1: why you can find individuals such as myself in positions
Speaker 1: like this where you can do time for a crime
Speaker 1: you didn't commit, because people's emotions are more tied up
Speaker 1: in the event, but not trying to find the actual
Speaker 1: truth when they sit on jervish on jury. I believe
Speaker 1: part of that outside of what the disc attorney did,
Speaker 1: the detective did, the jurors are the ones who has
Speaker 1: the final say, and if they don't use rationale to
Speaker 1: decipher the truth from the garbage that is being spelled
Speaker 1: out there, that's why there's so many of us in prison.
Speaker 1: Runefully anyone out there it is going through a situation
Speaker 1: such as this, Just continue fighting. No one knows what
Speaker 1: the future holes. And as hope, don't forget to give
Speaker 1: us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It
Speaker 1: really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence
Speaker 1: Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting
Speaker 1: this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions.
Speaker 1: Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to
Speaker 1: donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production
Speaker 1: team Connor Hall and Kevin Wards. The music of the
Speaker 1: show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Rawn Full
Speaker 1: Conviction and on Facebook at Rawn Full Conviction. Podcast Wrongful
Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for
Speaker 1: Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one a
Speaker 1: w