1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: There's an article that seems to be written every few 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: weeks now, and the latest is titled American women are 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: giving up on marriage and was in Saturday's Wall Street Journal. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing the genre. I obviously talk about this 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: topic maybe more than any other, and I appreciate that 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: these pieces are sounding the alarm. Just kind of think 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: they're not quite getting it right. Here's a quote from 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: the article. I'm financially self sufficient enough to do these 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: things by myself, said a woman they interviewed, a Boston 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: based accountant. I'm willing to accept being single versus settling 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 1: for someone who isn't the right fit. She sees her 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: plans for an independent futures, making the best of a 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: lousy situation. I don't want to sit here and say 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent happy, but I feel happier just 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: accepting my reality. I'm mentally and emotionally a sense of peace. 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: She's only twenty nine. She's twenty nine, and she's given 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: up on finding her person. It's just depressing. But here's 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: the thing. At twenty nine, I was in a six 20 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: year relationship with someone who I did not marry. I 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: was certain, I mean one thousand percent sure, that I 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to get married and I didn't want to 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: have kids. I started dating my husband the following year 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: when I was thirty, and we got married the year 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: after that. It changes so quickly. Why does a twenty 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: nine year old feel so despondent about her future? The 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: problem is the dating culture. If you talk to anyone 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: in it, well you feel extra grateful to not be 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: in it. But they use this language that's just become ridiculous. 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: Like I get what a situationship is, but giving it 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: a name as opposed to just like someone you're hooking 32 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: up with, makes it sound so much more important than 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: it is. As listeners have heard me say on this 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: show before, the problem is a decline in marriage, yes, 35 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: but it's a decline in all relationships, including friendships. The 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: top message that I get to this show is from 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: parents writing in about helping their kid, sometimes a teen, 38 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: sometimes a twenty something have more of a social life. 39 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: Something has definitely shifted for the worse. Listen to this 40 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: stat from the article the share of women age eighteen 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: to forty who are single, That is neither married nor 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: cohabitating with a partner was fifty one point four percent 43 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, according to an analysis of census 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group. That's up from 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: forty one point eight percent in two thousand. I mean 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: a ten point jump in twenty years or so. And 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: that part about cohabitating is important. It's not just marriage 48 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: that people aren't participating in. It's not this piece of paper, 49 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: it's not the institution. It's everything. It's having relationships in general. 50 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons for it, and a 51 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: lot of the articles and a lot of the research 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: focuses on the financial more than anything else. Women are 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: succeeding at previously unheard of levels. Men aren't, women want 54 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: to marry up, etc. But is that what you're hearing 55 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: from real people in your life who are trying to 56 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: find someone. It's not at all what I'm hearing. I'm 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: hearing that women can't find a man who will be faithful, 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: and men say they can't find a woman who isn't 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: in two material things. Women say men don't ask any 60 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: questions about themselves on dates, so a woman will ask 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: him about his family, about his job, about his hobbies, 62 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: and he won't say a word asking her in return, 63 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: He'll just answer her questions. Men say that women expect 64 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: them to carry conversations and interactions. I get that those 65 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: things are diametrically opposed. But I hear both of these perspectives, 66 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: and these are all things that I've heard multiple times. 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: We're missing the forest for the trees. It's not that 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: women are focused on their jobs. It's that they are 69 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: focused on their jobs because they can't find a man. 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from listeners on this. Am I 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: right is the whole She's just a career woman, a 72 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: red herring. Let me know what you think. Thanks for listening. 73 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: Coming up my interview with Abigail Schreier. But first, after 74 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, 75 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: the need for security essentials and support for first responders 76 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire. Israel must 77 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from. 78 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: As Israel surrounded my enemies on all sides, the International 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and will continue 80 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: to support the people of Israel with life saving security essentials. 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: Your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, 82 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flack jackets and 83 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today 84 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and 85 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: secure in the days to come. Give a gift to 86 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: bless Israel and her people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. 87 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: That's one word, SUPPORTIFCJ dot org or call eight eight 88 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight four 89 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: eight eight IFCJ eight eight eight four eight eight four 90 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: three two five, And Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz 91 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Abigail Shreier. Abigail 92 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: is contributing editor at The Free Press and the author 93 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: of two best selling books, Irreversible Damage, The Transgender Creates, 94 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: Seducing Our Daughters and Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't 95 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: Growing Up. Abigail is also one of my all time 96 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: favorite people. Hi, Abigail, so nice to. 97 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: Have you on. Oh it's great to be here, Carol, 98 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: great to talk to you. 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: So I feel like my question two has to be 100 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: why do you do it? Why do you do this? 101 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: Why do you write controversial books that are going to 102 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: bring you, you know, nasty hate mail when and here's 103 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: the thing, I think you are amazing, brilliant, but you're 104 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: also a fantastic writer. Like a lot of people in 105 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: our world are smart, but they don't have a beautiful 106 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: writing style. You could be writing about anything, but you're 107 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: choosing to go into the lines. 108 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: And why, Well, thank you. That's very kind of you 109 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: to say. 110 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: I mean, I write about what interests me, and I 111 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 3: write about things where I don't know the answer to 112 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: the question. 113 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: And you know, starting out with you know, irreversible damage. 114 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: A reader wrote to me to tell me about this 115 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 3: sudden spike and transgender identification among teenage girls, and no 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: one was at the time willing to write about it, 117 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: and I wanted to know if she was right, and 118 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 3: so it sort of took me on an investigative journey. 119 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 3: But it wasn't you know, provocation wasn't the point. It 120 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: was really sort of getting getting to the answer. 121 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: And I like that. I mean, I like getting to 122 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: the answer. 123 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: I always feel that I feel personally much safer in 124 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: a world where I feel like I have full information 125 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: and I know what's going on. And the truth is 126 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: more than sort of public opprobrium. Things that worry me 127 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: is really not knowing or being fooled, and those things actually. 128 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: Do scare me. 129 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: So you know, you sort of have to go with 130 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: who you are in life, I think, especially in your profession, 131 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 3: and you know this, the job sort of suits me, 132 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: it just does. 133 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: It does. But you're so not like you're very mild 134 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: mannered and just a calm, rational person. I mean your 135 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: books are very common rational too, But I think that 136 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: the hate at you is not And I don't know, 137 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: I worry about you in that way just because like 138 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: it's not like you don't but you don't need it. 139 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: You don't need that kind of response, and yet you're 140 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: going out there and doing it anyway. I'm very proud 141 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: of you, obviously. I think that that's, you know, the 142 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: way to be. I don't know necessarily that I have that. 143 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 3: So people get angry with me because I'm effective. That's 144 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: what makes them so angry. So I think if I 145 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: were more provocative or extreme or ungrounded or unfounded and 146 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: things I had to say, I would get a lot 147 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: less hate and I would be more ignored. And the 148 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 3: reason that I get attention is because I, you know, 149 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 3: try to craft things in a way that will be 150 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 3: effective and well grounded and therefore hard to ignore. So 151 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: you know that that makes some activists angry who are 152 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: trying to, you know, keep the facts from getting to light. 153 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: I really think that's sort of their problem. 154 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: And I, you know, I. 155 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: Leave the rest up to the public, but you know, 156 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: I'm going to keep doing my job. 157 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: What was your path here? How did you get your start? Oh? 158 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: So that's a great question. So I, you know, always 159 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 3: did journalism high school. I was a stringer for the 160 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: Wall Street Washington Jewish Week and you know, through college 161 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: and then I I was working at the Washington Monthly. 162 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: And I got the advice from some of my editors. 163 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: You know, journalists are so often diletants. They don't you know, 164 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 3: you have to know about everything, but you never know 165 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: anything deeply. You should really try to get a PhD 166 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 3: or learn something deeply. And I thought, well, I wasn't 167 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 3: sure I wanted to do a PhD. I did some 168 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: graduate life. 169 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: He was drastic. 170 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's drastic. 171 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: But one thing they said that did scare me. It 172 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: wasn't anything they said, actually, it was something they did. 173 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 3: And that was that my editor, one of my editors. 174 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: She was this beautiful, young, very talented editor, and I 175 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 3: think she was about twenty five at the time, and 176 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 3: she was going out to dinner with this sixty five 177 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: year old man who was rich, just so he would 178 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: buy her dinner, because the editors were so poor at 179 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: the Washington Monthly that they would base do anything for 180 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: a nice meal. 181 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: And that scared me. That scared me more than anything 182 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: she said. So after that I went to law school. 183 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: I thought, this is journalism my. 184 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: Own dinner, actually exactly. 185 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 3: I thought journalism could be very bleak if that's what 186 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 3: you have to do to get a meal. So so 187 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: I went to law school, but I never really enjoyed 188 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 3: the practice of law. And so when when my kids 189 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 3: were born, I started writing these novels and they weren't 190 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 3: going anywhere, and I thought, I have to get my 191 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 3: novels out before I go back to journalism, because once 192 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 3: people find out, you know, once people say my journalism, 193 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 3: they'll never let me publish another novel. Right, But my 194 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: novels were not successful. I never sold one. So I decided, 195 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 3: you know what, I have so many thoughts, I'm just 196 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 3: going to go back to journalism. And from there I 197 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 3: just started writing for the local press and my career 198 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 3: sort of took off. 199 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: Would law have been the plan, B. 200 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 2: I suppose. 201 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: I mean, I like writing about law even now. It's 202 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: it's certainly an advantage in journalism to be able to 203 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 3: write accurately about law. 204 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: It's it's something that trips up a lot of journalists. 205 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: So you know, certainly, having that in my toolkit, as 206 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: it were, as something I can write about, I have 207 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 3: found very useful. You know, I'm not I'm not scared 208 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 3: by a statute in the way that I very reasonably 209 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 3: some journalists would be, well, I mean understandably, I mean, 210 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: and I also, you know, you know, because I went 211 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: to y A law school, I have a number of 212 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 3: professors I can call up if I'm not sure about 213 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: something and get a really really smart take. So so 214 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: you know, I I like having you know, personally, I'm 215 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: glad that I went to law school, but you know, 216 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: the journalism just just really suits my personality best. 217 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: You live in California, and I've had a lot of 218 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: people on the show who have left California in the 219 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: last five years. And you're staying. You're You're You're You're 220 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: waiting it out. How how is it going? How is 221 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: how is it out there? 222 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: Well, you know, obviously California is a disaster in so 223 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: many ways, that's no secret. We're we're horribly governed all 224 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: the way down from the you know, state level, uh 225 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 3: through my local uh here in l A. 226 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 2: I mean, the governance is a disaster. But I write 227 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: about the culture. 228 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: And there is really no better way to look at 229 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: how the culture has gone drastically off course, how it 230 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: has undermined families and children than to be in a 231 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: in the state where a lot of that, those bad 232 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: ideas and bad policies get started. So you know, from 233 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: that perspective, it really is a candy store for a journalist. 234 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: And uh, for from. 235 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 3: The perspective of our family, we're in it. We happen 236 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 3: to be in a very nice community so that you know, 237 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: the kids are in a good school, we're happy with 238 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: so uh. 239 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: From that perspective, it's it's we're doing all right. 240 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: So California gets to keep you for now. 241 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, we'll revisit right, Okay, sounds good. 242 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: What do you worry about? 243 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: Oh, so there's there's so much to worry about. But 244 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: I think the thing I worry about the most right 245 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 3: now is why young people are not forming relationships, healthy relationships, 246 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 3: sort of the retreat from the in person world and 247 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 3: also the lack of meaningful romantic relationships that we're seeing 248 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: young people less interested in having them. They're too young 249 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: to know that they're giving up on the best things 250 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 3: in life. And also they've been lied to a lot 251 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: of them believe that no, I need to get my 252 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: professions started first. I can't possibly date someone until I've 253 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: pursued my career as a paralegal. 254 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: And it's don't go pursuing that career, go ahead and 255 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: find your spouse. 256 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: Now, right. 257 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, for for any job, they will 258 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: put off finding a spouse. 259 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: And it really should be the reverse. 260 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not saying, you know, don't take your 261 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 3: career seriously, but God willing, we have many decades, productive 262 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: decades had but unfor you know, the way we're designed, 263 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 3: we have a short time with biology and in which 264 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: to have children and to marry, and that's the thing 265 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 3: that we actually should be you know, putting at least 266 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: as much energy into if not more, And unfortunately it's 267 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: really reversed. Young people are putting all their energy into 268 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 3: their careers and none into finding a spouse. And I 269 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 3: do think that's a real problem. 270 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: Do you think phones are related to it, that they're 271 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: not living like real lives or they're they're just on 272 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: the internet. 273 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely undeniably. 274 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: But I also think that that the fearfulness of the generation, 275 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: they're so full of worry and look in our personal 276 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: relationships are the scariest and most risky things you'll ever 277 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: get involved in, and they're also the most rewarding. But 278 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: not knowing if someone's going to like you back, much 279 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: less love you back, not knowing if you're going to 280 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: get your heartbroken. 281 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: These are really scary things. 282 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: And we've raised this generation to be the most fearful, 283 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: and so unfortunately they're staying away from the ultimate rewards 284 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 3: of a loving relationship. 285 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 286 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show, I talk about this 287 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: a lot on the show, about relationships and about all 288 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: kinds of connections between people. Family, friendships, friendships are way down. 289 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: It's not just they're not just not making romantic connections, 290 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: they're not even making friends anymore. And I get emails 291 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: all the time from people saying like, how can I 292 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: help my teenager or how can I help my twenty 293 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: something make friends. It's becomes so like people see it 294 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: as out of reach to connect with other people, and 295 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: it's scary. 296 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you had a great column on that. I should 297 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: have mentioned that. It was a terrific column. Everyone should 298 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: go back and read it if they missed it. On 299 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: the decline of friendship. It was something that I wasn't 300 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: aware of until I saw your column. And it's exactly 301 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: what you just said is exactly right. I mean, we 302 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: look back on our lives. Friendships and romantic relationships. These 303 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 3: are you know, in your spouse, and then these are 304 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: at the top of what gives you meaning and satisfaction 305 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: in life. And friendships are amazing things because you start 306 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: out you have these conflicts, right, you know, you get 307 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: very close to someone, then you fall out of touch, 308 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 3: or maybe you get a share with them or whatever happens. 309 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: But this is the amazing thing. 310 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 3: Years go by, and for whatever reason, it has this 311 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: amazing cementing effect of making your friendship so meaningful and 312 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: so strong, and it doesn't even matter how mad you 313 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 3: got at her over this or that. In the sixth grade, 314 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: you look back and all of a sudden, you've known 315 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: her for thirty years. And I do very much worry 316 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: that kids are missing out on those close friendships. 317 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely like it's something that I think about 318 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: a lot. That you know, I'm on my phone a lot. 319 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't say that I'm not guilty of 320 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: the same thing. Every every moment of awkwardness, I immediately 321 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: reach my phone just like WHOA, this feels much more comfortable. 322 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: I could just scroll and not focus on whatever is 323 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: happening here. How do you kind of direct your kids 324 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: toward those connections? Right? 325 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: So, first of all, let me just acknowledge that it's 326 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: near impossible to manage the phones and the computers. It's 327 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: so hard, and the schools have made it harder than 328 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: any I think, any institution. You try to keep these 329 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: things away from your kids, and then every teacher assigns 330 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: homework through some school some computer programs. So let me 331 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 3: just start by saying, I'm, you know, not perfect by 332 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 3: any means. How do I direct my kids to in 333 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,239 Speaker 3: person relationships? I do send them to a school with 334 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: a no phone policy, which has been really wonderful. And 335 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: you know, my sons who are in high school. They 336 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 3: have what's known as kosher phones. You can actually buy 337 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 3: these things and they are Internet blocked. It's great, that 338 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 3: doesn't It's been wonderful for us. They have you know, 339 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 3: various apps like WhatsApp for communicating with teams or you know, 340 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: chatting apps, but when it's like Gmail, so they can 341 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: use their see their schedules and whatnot. But it's not 342 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 3: the open Internet. Okay, so that's somewhat better. But truthfully, 343 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 3: and this goes to another question that I think, as 344 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 3: you let me know is on your mind, is sort 345 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: of what advice would I give? And that is that 346 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 3: let's just go. 347 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: Right to it. What advice would you give your sixteen 348 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: year old self? 349 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 3: Well, you know, what advice would I give my sixteen 350 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: year old self will be a little different, but I'll 351 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: tell you what advice I would give in general on 352 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 3: this issue of improving life, improving your life honestly, and 353 00:18:58,840 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 3: I hate to say it, and people are going to 354 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: really upset that I said this, or maybe tune out, 355 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: but honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do 356 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: this is to join a religious community, join a church, 357 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 3: join a synagogue. There is no quicker way to get 358 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 3: actual real community, that is in person, that is meaningful, 359 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: that is full of connections, And yes, it comes with 360 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 3: plenty of annoyance too, of course, But I actually think 361 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 3: that that is the most direct way to sort of 362 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: immediately improve your life. 363 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: I love it. That's usually the last question, but that's okay, 364 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: that's okay, we can starry. 365 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 3: What advice would I give to my sixteen year old self. 366 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 3: You know, I spent a lot of years. I think 367 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 3: this may resonate with with a lot of women. So 368 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 3: I spent a lot of years thinking my personality was 369 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: just wrong. So by which I mean, you hear from 370 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 3: a lot of other girls you can't say that, my god. 371 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 3: You know that seems to be a theme with girl 372 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 3: groups of girls, and you spend a lot of of 373 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: time sort of, especially if you're like me or you 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 3: know you, I would imagine you sort of if you're 375 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 3: a straightforward person who just sort of calls things like 376 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: you see them, you spend a lot of time with 377 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: other girls being told that you're mean, you're saying all 378 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: the wrong things, and you don't share what you said. 379 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 3: And if I could go back, what I would would 380 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: would do is sort of tell myself, you know, there's 381 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: going to be a place for someone with your personality. 382 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: It's not all bad. It may be. 383 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: Hard to maintain large groups of friends of girlfriends because 384 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 3: they want you to flatter them, and the ticket for 385 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 3: large groups of girlfriends tends to be small lies and flattery, 386 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 3: neither of. 387 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: Which I'm terribly good at. 388 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 3: But it turns out there's you know, there's really a 389 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 3: place for you, no matter your personality. And I'm not 390 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: talking about sociopathy or anything like that, right, but personality 391 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: and in journalism, you know, I'm I'm I'm not running 392 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: against you know, I'm going with the current when it 393 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 3: comes to my personality when I tell the truth, because 394 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 3: that's something that's always been very easy for me. It's 395 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 3: covering up the truth or taking care of everyone's feelings 396 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 3: that's always been harder. So I sort of if I 397 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 3: could go back, I wish I would have known that, 398 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 3: actually what was so difficult in some situations that required 399 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: niceties and flattery and you know, white lies, it would 400 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 3: actually be to my advantage in a career in journalism. 401 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: Did you always have primarily male friends or yes, yes, 402 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: same same, Yeah. Do you know how that is? So 403 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: not popular now. 404 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: Like that is. 405 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: When I say that to my fifteen year old daughter, 406 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: she's like, that's you know, they call girls like that, 407 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: like the pick me girl who like tries to cater 408 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: to boys and like no, boys were just they were 409 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: funny and trying to be funny all the time. And 410 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: that's what I was looking for totally. 411 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: And I was also I was always close to my 412 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: father and maybe yeah, and I don't know if it's 413 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 3: because I was close to him or we were close 414 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: because we had such similar personalities. But I always got 415 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 3: along with men and boys much better. And you know, 416 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 3: my husband says, he always jokes that I'm the only 417 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: woman who wants to be told when she looks fat, 418 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: because I'll say to him, do. 419 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: I look fat in this? And I want to know 420 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: before I leave the house. I don't want to be 421 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 2: lied to. 422 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 3: You definitely don't want to be Apparently that's a big 423 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 3: no no with most women. 424 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 2: They want to be lied to. 425 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: And why would you ask unless you want to know 426 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: the honest opinion, what am I doing here? 427 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: Exactly? 428 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 3: If I don't look good, I want to change immediately 429 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 3: before I leave the house. So you know, that was 430 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 3: always very hard with me with groups of girlfriends. I 431 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 3: always had a female best friend, but the rest I 432 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 3: just couldn't maintain the group. I just could never, you know, 433 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 3: keep the whole group happy and and and I didn't 434 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 3: know that that those same sort of personality quirks would 435 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: would make some areas of my life much much easier. 436 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: Do you feel like your books change the conversation and 437 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 1: enough to make those issues that you've written about better? 438 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: Like I think that you writing about the trans contagion 439 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: blew it all up to such an extent that I 440 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: think that. I mean, maybe I just live in Florida now, 441 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: but I'm seeing a change, a shift in the way 442 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: that this is all going down. I don't see as 443 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: many And again, this might just be a New York 444 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: to Florida move. Maybe they're still all trendsing in New York, 445 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: but it seems like fewer girls are going down that path. 446 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: And similarly, your book about you know, over therapy for kids, 447 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: I feel like the conversation around that has changed and 448 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: that there's an improvement. Do you feel any of that. 449 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: I do think so, and I'm very happy about that. 450 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 3: I mean the advantage of writing a book is here's 451 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 3: what I try to do. I don't write a book 452 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 3: that's just my opinions or my take. There's nothing wrong 453 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 3: with that, but that's not what I do. I try 454 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: to create a document that people can take that's full 455 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 3: of information and that can really add to the discourse. 456 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: So in Bad Therapy, there were legislators who bought the 457 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: book who went argued in court against. You know, people 458 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 3: would argue in court against or in favor of puberty 459 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: blocker bands or whatnot, and they would have all the 460 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: evidence in my book, they would say, they would cite 461 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 3: it in their briefs, And I. 462 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: Tried to do the same for Bad Therapy. 463 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: I wanted parents who went into school boards and were trying, 464 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 3: who sensed in their guts there was something wrong with 465 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: social emotional learning to be able to say here, chapter 466 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 3: whatever chapter it was, I think it was chapter nine, 467 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: but or chapter six, and they would say, here, it's 468 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: all in this book. 469 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: And that's what I try to do. I try to 470 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: be a resource in that way. 471 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: The nice thing about a book is that you know 472 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 3: it's always there, so you know it's you know, an 473 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: episode will get more views, but then people rarely. 474 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: Go back and listen to or read why old episodes. 475 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 3: The advantage, of course of the episodes is you know, 476 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: unfortunately reading is really declining. So I think I think 477 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: sort of the podcast world and the book world work 478 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 3: really well together because you sort of need both to 479 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 3: reach people. 480 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So do you when people do cite your work, 481 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: do they I mean, do you feel like you've gotten 482 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: the credit that you deserve for this? I feel like 483 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: maybe not enough. That's fair, and I think Abigail Schreier 484 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: deserves more. 485 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 3: Guys, thank you, you know, I'm I'm I'm happy. 486 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: I think that, you know, I'm not. 487 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 3: I think if I were more strategic about my career 488 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: in certain ways, I would have stayed on each topic 489 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 3: longer and kept promoting it and promoting it and promoting it. 490 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 3: So within the year after Irreversible Damage was out, I 491 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 3: was really onto new topics and new investigations because just 492 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: I'm just interested in what the next is and I'm 493 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: not someone who has I'm not an activist. I don't 494 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 3: have a burning passion about one issue, and so you know, 495 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: as a journalist, I'm always looking at sort of what's 496 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: ahead and what the next issue is. I don't know 497 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 3: if that's the best always the best move for my career. 498 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 3: It might be to make sure that I'm the one 499 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 3: person everyone constantly goes to for this one issue. But 500 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 3: for me, I like being able to move on to 501 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 3: the next topic and reveal something else if I can. 502 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: I love it. She is Abigail Schreier. Get her books, 503 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: read her anywhere you can. You're so fantastic. Thank you 504 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: so much for coming on. I've loved this conversation. 505 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 2: Thank you, Carol, You're the best. 506 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marco 507 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: Which show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.