WEBVTT - Nunes' Document Disclosure Faces Legal Challenges (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Traditionally, the House Intelligence Committee has been a model of

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<v Speaker 1>bipartisan cooperation, with the chair and the ranking minority member

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<v Speaker 1>of the committee working together closely, and the committee's work

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<v Speaker 1>is generally done behind closed doors. But last week, Committee

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<v Speaker 1>Chairman Devon Nunas announced that the intelligence community had incidentally

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<v Speaker 1>collected conversations involving members of Donald Trump's transition team while

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<v Speaker 1>it was engaging in surveillance of foreign targets. Nuna has

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<v Speaker 1>subsequently apologized to the Intelligence Committe's Democratic members for how

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<v Speaker 1>he disclosed the information about the surveillance, but the incident

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<v Speaker 1>has raised questions about whether the Intelligence Committee can conduct

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<v Speaker 1>a thorough, bipartisan investigation into questions about Russian interference in

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<v Speaker 1>last year's election and possible contacts between the Trump campaign

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<v Speaker 1>and Russia. Here to talk to us about what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on with Chairman Nunez and the Intelligence Committee are Andrew Kent,

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<v Speaker 1>professor at Fordham Law School, and uh Eliza Gutian, co

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<v Speaker 1>director of the Liberty and National Security Program at the

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<v Speaker 1>Brennan Center. UM, thank you both for being here today. Andrew,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a somewhat confusing and um seemingly strange situation

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<v Speaker 1>here where you have the uh, the chairman of the

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<v Speaker 1>House Intelligence Committee having gone to the White House with

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<v Speaker 1>information when it's possible the committee is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>investigating the president. How unusual is this situation in your view?

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's extremely unusual, and uh, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>number of folks on the Republican side, including John McCain,

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<v Speaker 1>have said as much. Um. Obviously there are close political

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<v Speaker 1>links between a president and members of his party in

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<v Speaker 1>the Congress. But when the president's own conduct and the

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<v Speaker 1>conduct of his campaign and close aids to him are

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<v Speaker 1>the subject of such an incredibly important and sensitive investigation

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<v Speaker 1>that the House Intelligence Committee is undergoing, Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>this behavior by by the chairman is really extraordinary and

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<v Speaker 1>quite inappropriate. Liza, It's still unclear because new Naz has

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<v Speaker 1>refused to say where he got these documents from their

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly classified documents. If they are really classified documents and

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<v Speaker 1>he showed them or told the press about them without

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<v Speaker 1>telling his committee members or anyone else, is that a

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor prosecutable offense. Well, certainly, Nuns himself and many others

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<v Speaker 1>on his committee have really made a point of underscoring

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<v Speaker 1>how dangerous it is to leak classified information and have

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<v Speaker 1>emphasized that people who do leak such information should be prosecuted,

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<v Speaker 1>so if they are to be believed, it absolutely is

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<v Speaker 1>a prosecutable offense. And it does appear that some of

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<v Speaker 1>what uh Mr Nunez was saying in his press conferences

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<v Speaker 1>was classified information. Now the president is able to be

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<v Speaker 1>classify information, uh quickly and easily. And there is a

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<v Speaker 1>question in this case about whether there was coordination between

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<v Speaker 1>the White House and and Newness in his announcements. And

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<v Speaker 1>recently we learned that Noons was actually at the White

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<v Speaker 1>House the day before he gave his press conference using

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<v Speaker 1>some secure compartment and facilities there. That's a place where

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<v Speaker 1>you go to look at classified information. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's some real questions here about where this information came from.

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<v Speaker 1>And and and frankly, you know, if the president did

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<v Speaker 1>be classified information so he could reveal it, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's more disturbing than than it is reassuring. Well, Andrew,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say, you know, putting aside this situation, you end

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<v Speaker 1>up with a where you have an intelligence Committee chairman

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<v Speaker 1>finding out information that might be relevant to an investigation

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<v Speaker 1>or to the White House. Um in some way, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that's important. What is the appropriate protocol here, what's supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. Well, there's not really a protocol in a

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<v Speaker 1>situation that's as politically charged and abnormal as this, But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think we would hope that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in any kind of extraordinary circumstance, we fall back on

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of tried and true procedures, and those procedures

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<v Speaker 1>would be, um, you know, bipartisanship on the committee, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, letting the Democratic members see it, letting the

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<v Speaker 1>expert staff who um uh you know who served the

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<v Speaker 1>members of that committee be involved and things, and then um,

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<v Speaker 1>if necessary, making a decision you know, at the committee level,

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<v Speaker 1>to communicate with with executive branch agencies about this and

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<v Speaker 1>ideally to do it uh privately first before you know,

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<v Speaker 1>going and having a quite confusing news conference first at

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<v Speaker 1>the Capitol and then a second one at the White House,

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<v Speaker 1>like the chairman did. Lies about a minute here. Noon

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<v Speaker 1>has served as an advisor to Trump's transition team. So

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<v Speaker 1>should he be investigating this at all? Some of the

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<v Speaker 1>people he must know when he may have been involved

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<v Speaker 1>in some aspect of this. I mean, that's an excellent question.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure that Initially, the fact that he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>serve on the on the Trump transition team or as

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<v Speaker 1>an advisor. I'm not sure that that should disqualify him

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<v Speaker 1>out of hand to be leading an investigation, But if

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<v Speaker 1>you add some of the behavior we've since seen since then,

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<v Speaker 1>and particularly these press conferences, I think that does raise

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<v Speaker 1>some very serious questions about whether he's conducting an impartial

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<v Speaker 1>investigation or whether he's really trying to act to support

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration, which is not his job as an

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<v Speaker 1>overseer on the committee, let alone as someone who is

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<v Speaker 1>investigating potential misconduct by the administration. Andrew, are we at

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<v Speaker 1>a point now where Senator McCain is right and we

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<v Speaker 1>need to have a Congress really needs to appoint a

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<v Speaker 1>select committee that's independent of the Intelligence Committee to investigate

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<v Speaker 1>the allegations about possible Trump campaign contacts with Russia and

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<v Speaker 1>Russian interference in last year's presidential election. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>think in theory we are, but I also see no

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<v Speaker 1>indication that it's likely to happen. Uh. You know, neither

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<v Speaker 1>Miss McConnell on the Senate side or Paul Ryan on

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<v Speaker 1>the House side have given any indication that they're interested

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<v Speaker 1>in doing that. Um so, Uh, you know, certainly the

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<v Speaker 1>Chairman Nuns his actions calling to call into real question,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, his independence from the White House and his

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<v Speaker 1>willingness to aggressively dig into information that might be harmful

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<v Speaker 1>to the White House. But uh, you know, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's all. That's all we're going to have for the

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<v Speaker 1>time being. Is is is the current investigations in in

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<v Speaker 1>the in the current setting they're taking place, Liza, among

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<v Speaker 1>congressional committees, the two intelligence committees, one in the Senate,

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<v Speaker 1>one in the House. We're established with this unique charge

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<v Speaker 1>that they be bipartisan to the most extent possible. In

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<v Speaker 1>the past, have you seen either of these committees do

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of work? Yes? Actually, I think the Senate

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<v Speaker 1>Intelligence Committee has been remarkably bipartisan in most things. And

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<v Speaker 1>there's certainly been exceptions to that, but for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>they tend to work together and to work together quite

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<v Speaker 1>amicably and well, and often share conclusions. And even when

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<v Speaker 1>they don't share conclusions. For example, the Torture Report, the

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<v Speaker 1>report on the CIA's enhanced interrogation program. Uh, many Republicans

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<v Speaker 1>dissented from or did not sign that report, but it

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<v Speaker 1>still did not create sort of the level of animosity

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<v Speaker 1>and infighting that we are seeing right now in the

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<v Speaker 1>House Intelligence Committee. The House Intelligence Committee has traditionally been

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<v Speaker 1>a bit more marked bipartisan differences, but I would say

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<v Speaker 1>that what we're seeing right now um is sort of

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<v Speaker 1>taking it to a new level. Andrew Eli Lake, Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>View columnist, spoke with Chairman Nunez recently and he's put

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<v Speaker 1>up a column on Bloomberg View uh saying that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Nonez has explained that he to Eli Lake that he

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<v Speaker 1>in fact had gone to the White House ground to

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<v Speaker 1>view these documents, and that the documents that he has

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<v Speaker 1>seen were widely shared during the Obama administration. Appears with

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<v Speaker 1>both the White House and among other members of the

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence community, and it sort of raises the specter of

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not it's possible that, in fact, the Obama

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<v Speaker 1>administration was using intelligence to try to keep track of

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump campaign or the Trump transition. Might there really

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<v Speaker 1>be something legitimate here and what Nonez was doing and

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<v Speaker 1>sharing this information with the White House? It's possible, and

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<v Speaker 1>the Lake's article today was certainly a useful piece of

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<v Speaker 1>this puzzle, but it's still quite hard to know exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on, in part because Nunas has said both

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<v Speaker 1>contradictory sort of confusing things. I mean, he said from

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning, and he's reiterated that he believes this was

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<v Speaker 1>lawfully collected intelligence. And he suggested that it occurred under

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<v Speaker 1>the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which means that it was

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<v Speaker 1>you know, though it's a complicated statute, and we can

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<v Speaker 1>generalize to say it means that it was a court

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<v Speaker 1>approve uh to target somebody who is an agent of

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<v Speaker 1>a foreign power. Um. But then, um, you know it's

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<v Speaker 1>reported in the Lake piece that you reference. Uh, Nunez

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<v Speaker 1>is saying that conversations between Trump and his senior advisors

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<v Speaker 1>about the presidential transition, uh, we're somehow picked up. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have a very hard time in my mind

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<v Speaker 1>reconciling how there could have been lawful, lawful communications of

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<v Speaker 1>agents of the of a foreign government being swept up

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<v Speaker 1>that included uh, those kinds of details. It's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>quite confusing, and unfortunately I don't have, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a teriffic answer about exactly what's going on here.

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<v Speaker 1>About thirty seconds, um, Liza, one of the Democratic Congressman

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<v Speaker 1>Eric Swalwell on the committee has written for The Guardian

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<v Speaker 1>and slam Nunez, saying he seems to be running his

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<v Speaker 1>own intelligence service, receiving classified information exclusively briefing the president.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this likely? Is this a committee it's likely going

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to work together? Yeah, that's certainly a concern.

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<v Speaker 1>And obviously the ranking member of the committee, autom Shift,

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<v Speaker 1>has also been quite critical of Newness and his behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>In this case, Shift seems to be in essence that

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<v Speaker 1>the member of the committee who is most concerned with

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<v Speaker 1>the actual Russian interference with the election and possible tries

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<v Speaker 1>ties to the Trump campaign that the committee is supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be investigating. Uh. And at the hearing that took

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<v Speaker 1>place last week, Representative Shift read through a long list

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<v Speaker 1>of the circumstantial evidence that has come up that's been

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<v Speaker 1>quite damning, that appears to, uh, you know, at least

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<v Speaker 1>apply some ties between the Russian interference and the Trump campaign,

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<v Speaker 1>and Liza, we're going to have to leave it there.

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<v Speaker 1>Are thanks to Liza Guardtine of the Brennan Center for

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<v Speaker 1>Justice and Andrew Kent of Fordham University for being with

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<v Speaker 1>us on Bloomberg Law