WEBVTT - How will the future crime database work? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.040 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:16.200 from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.880 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:23.160 Charles W. Bryant. Now you, Chuck, I'm here, Josh. Oh wait, 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.279 this isn't the Halloween episode. No, No, that already, that 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.520 already came out. That was good, though. I appreciate that. Yeah, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.120 that was really good. Well, truthfully, it's almost Halloween's I'm 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:36.600 just in a spirit, are you? Yeah? In the spirit? Yes, dude, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.720 I have been punning lately left and right, and it's 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.720 just it makes me sick. You have the stomach punkin though? 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:46.080 Have you good one, Chuck? That reminds me that we've 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.400 been We've been talking about this punk and chunking thing 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.360 pretty hard. Let's do it again, Yeah time, let's we'll 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.680 say it again. Okay, So the mothership of Discovery Channel 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.840 has asked us to mention a show that's coming out 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.480 a special, actually the pair of specials. It's coming out 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:06.200 on Thanksgiving night, um on the Science Channel eight p 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.840 m uh you got there's two shows, Like you said, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.520 the Road to punk and checking and punkin checking, punkin 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.000 chunking itself and again that's that begins at eight p m. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.640 Eastern Time, because I believe it takes place in the 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:24.080 Town in the East, which is appropriated no on Science Channel. Yeah, 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.520 so Chuck, yes you want a podcast, Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So, Chuck, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.280 have you ever seen Minority Report? I have? Uh, sure, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.640 Steven Spielberg and the Yeah, yeah I knew. I knew 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.319 Tom Cruise is in it. Didn't know Spielberg directed? Yeah, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:40.400 I thought it was okay, it kind of lost me 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.480 in the third act, didn't, Yeah, big time. You know 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.520 it's based on Philip K. Dick. Um, I think novel 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.760 short story wasn't. Yeah, it was called the Minority Report. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.080 Oh yeah, that's Hollywood for you. They're always changing things. Yeah. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.800 But okay, so you you know, um that it's about 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.000 a uh I guess, a crime section, anti crime section, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.600 law enforcement some people call it um that arrests people 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.880 based on information given to them by this group of 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.440 people who have precognition, and that would be the Office 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:18.880 of pre Crime. Appropriately, the Cruise was a pre crime officer, right. Um, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:24.640 we have a real dearth of um people with genuine precognition. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:26.920 It's kind of tough to find three that you know, 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.359 you can really reliably count on who can serve you 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.119 images from their brain crimes that are about to happen. Yeah. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.960 They had a bad off in that movie too, they 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.760 really did. They were Yeah, um we are. However, it 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.680 seems like working on a database that will be able 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:50.160 to predict crime and if so, humanity is screwed personal rights? 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.280 Is that what you're getting in. Yeah, there's a lot 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:56.280 of problems with this, but yeah, so there's a there's um, 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:02.440 there's a database that there's several databases already um around right, 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.800 there's all kinds of databases, sir. When I was a kid, um, uh, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.520 my dad took me to get my fingers printed, uh huh, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:12.520 just in case I was abducted. And I wouldn't talk 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.119 to him on the way home. I was all, like, 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.000 you redded me out, dad, just in case you got arrested. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.800 Your dad would just afford that, and so here you go, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.720 no no ready for him, you know, like it was 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.520 put into this database. So yeah, ostensibly, so if I 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.120 ever was kidnapped, and you know, was my brain was 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.720 washed and I lost my identity. They'd be able to 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.600 fingerprint me if I ever wandered up onto the to 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.240 the street and they'd be like, oh, it's Josh Clark. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.080 The chances of that are slim to nune. The chances 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.760 of meet committee a crime, We're talking like near percent. See. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:48.120 I was a kid during the Atlantic child murders, the 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.760 famous murders Wayne Williams, remember that. So my mom was like, go, 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.160 you know, go play by done of the Creek. Don't 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.600 worry about fingerprinting. Yeah, go go get the mail down 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.640 by the street, get the neighbor's mail, right, get all 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.880 the name urs mail. Jeez, like you know where your 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.200 children are? My mom never knew where I was. Yeah, 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.160 well I survived. Well, yes, clearly you did. But so 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.920 fingerprinting is just one database, right, Yeah, that's one. Uh, 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:18.560 there's another one that's a little more advanced, a little 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:23.640 more sophisticated. Um that is called the National Crime Information Center. Right. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.320 You ever watched the movie or the show the first 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.479 forty eight? No, dude, it is good. Um. I sleep 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:32.640 with a hammer next to my bed now because of 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.160 that shows what's the concept there. Within the first two 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.440 days is when all the evidence is like hot and 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.640 yeah if they don't, if they don't close a homicide 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.960 within the first forty eight hours, the chances of them 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:48.520 ever closing it dropped dramatically. Yeah. So they sometimes they do, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.400 sometimes they don't. But it's a real life, um, real 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.120 life uh show. Uh. And it follows like real life cops, 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.279 like on the beat, like after a homicide, and like 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.400 the stuff that people will do each other's just chilling. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.480 My favorite is this ball guy who works in Memphis. 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.440 He's awesome Squidy It's not Squibby, Um, he's he would 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.479 bust Squibby though I can tell you that. But um, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.159 they're this they they often access on the show, the 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.680 National Crime Information Center. So it's got like all this 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.040 information on people who are who have committed crimes. Um. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.960 But it's more than just their fingerprints. It could be 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.680 like their street name that they're they're always using it 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.839 to look up like somebody's street name. Um. It also 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.560 has you know, people who are members or suspective members 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:38.960 of like gangs organization. Yeah what else? You? Umi has 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:43.719 this iPhone app that's disturbing. It's a locate a sex offender. Yeah, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.159 I've seen the website. They well they have an iPhone 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.400 app for it now and like sure enough. There's a 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.400 lot of sex offenders around our placed. And the weird 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.280 thing is they aggregate like you'll you'll look at uh 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.480 several of them and they'll all have the same address 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.120 except like number six or number thirteen or whatever. So 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.240 it's clearly an apartment building that's been designated like a 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.159 sex offender can live here because it's not by a 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.960 school or anything like that. Remember that article set recently 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:11.880 about the they told the ones in Georgia to camp 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.080 out that they quickly once it hit the news there 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.120 or you can come back inside. Yeah, we'll find a 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.560 place for you. Yeah. So okay, so we've got those 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.040 two databases. There's another one and here's where we start 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.720 to reach the crux of this podcast finally, after like 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:31.320 seventy minutes, the one in England and here, Oh, well 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.360 you're talking about the National DNA Database. Yeah. Yes, that 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.919 started in uh England in and initially it was just 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.000 people who had been uh convicted of crimes that they 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.159 would get their DNA and keep that on file. Yeah, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.440 but that changed, didn't it. It did change, and I 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.599 think two thousand three they expanded it UM to include 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.039 anyone who's ever been arrested. So basically, if a cop 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:01.159 goes I'm gonna take they can rescue and let you 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.279 go on the spot. But if the cop can collect 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.440 a sample right there, if he's got a mobile sample kit, 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.920 they can take your blood even if you didn't do anything. Yeah, 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.239 even if they're like, oh sorry, buddy, I had yeah exactly, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.239 and you can't say can I get that swab back? 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.440 And they'll you know, they'll break your arms. And before 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.640 two thousand six, I think they that that was still 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:28.000 most people weren't getting arrested. But that year UM Britain 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:33.520 expanded the the list of arrestable offenses, including wearing a 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.240 seatbelt or more of the point, not wearing it. You're 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.800 under arrest for wearing a seat bit into this speetree, right, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.360 so I mean that's uh yeah, and I imagine that's 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.480 how they do it too, right as a swab. I 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.720 don't know about the mobile kits. Probably I can imagine 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.520 somebody going like, you're not breaking me yeah? So um 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.840 but but yes, so now in England, if you jay walker, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.840 if you are not wearing a seatbelt, they can collect 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.440 a sample of your DNA that they intend to keep 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.840 on file indefinitely and four millions strong. Yeah, which makes 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.480 it the second largest database in the world. DNA database 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.880 in the world, second second to ours, I would imagine, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.520 of course. Uh. That was in two thousand seven, by 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.640 the way, the four million entries UH that same year. 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.200 In the US, we have a National DNA Index system 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.320 in d I S that's maintained by the FBI. UH, 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.160 and we had four point five million profiles that year. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.280 I looked and all I could find where estimates like 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.920 FBI funding estimates. So these things are probably these numbers 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.280 are probably high. But for two thousand nine, they estimated 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.920 that this thing would have fourteen million samples. Now ours 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.840 isn't just if you're arrested, right, isn't it if if 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.160 you're a felon? Or does it state? That's how that's 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.199 how it started out. Um. And then in two thousand 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.920 and four, California, always on the leading edge of whatever 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.920 is going on, they passed Prop. Sixty nine controversial it's 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.080 to say the least. Yeah. Um. Basically, what it says 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.400 is that law enforcement can take your DNA if you've 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.720 been arrested for a felony. And some misdemeanors and it's 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.320 just arrested. Yeah, and illegal immigrants, which they kind of 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.480 just tossed in there. I'm sure, I'm sure. And let's see, 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.679 how can we fairly target illegal immigrants? Oh yeah, we'll 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.480 just take their DNA for no reason. Well there's kids 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:28.320 in there too, Yeah, that's that's causing a huge stir 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.680 is kids are being when they're arrested, they can have 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.480 their DNA take. I'm sure. So you can imagine that 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.960 just having your DNA taken, just having a swab stuck 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.680 in your mouth by a police officer is enough to 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.160 really raise the ire of some people. Yeah. Obviously a 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.040 lot of human rights advocates have problems with this, which 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:51.920 we'll get into in a second. Unless we're getting into 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.600 that now. Uh, we can if you want. I mean, yeah, Well, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.040 the first thing that kind of got besides the implementation 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.319 of the program in England, was last year in two 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.600 thousand and eight, when it was revealed that half a 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.000 million names in the database are just flat out wrong, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.200 and that was that caused a big stir Yeah, either 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.360 just incorrect or misspelled, it might have been type of 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.320 but some of them are just wrong. Yeah, that's clearly. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.719 I mean just having DNA samples of four and a 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.679 half four million people in England and then saying oh, 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.559 and by the way, half a million of them are 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.439 are wrong. We don't know who's they are. We think 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.640 they're yours, but they're not. That's a problem. But I mean, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.360 is there really a problem with just maintaining a database 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.280 at d NA? What are they doing with it? Well, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.360 it depends because DNA it's not like a fingerprint. There's 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.120 a lot of information contained in your DNA that's not 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:47.440 just identified the person, right, your genetic code, your family history. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.120 There's a there's a program called d N a witness 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.840 made by a company called DNA print Genomics UM, and 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:59.000 it can locate ancestry markers and basically say, oh, you 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.000 found some DNA, we can narrow it down to this 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.080 person is probably being Hispanic. Well yeah, it's all to 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.160 deal with racial racial breakdown, right, So I mean, there's 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.680 racial profiling is about as hot button an issue as 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.640 anything else, you know, because the problem is, as it 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:22.480 stands now, racial profiling is based on past statistics. If 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.160 you include DNA into the mix, does it become more 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.280 finely honed or even more egregious, right or does it 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.960 open itself up? Who knows. Here's the problem with DNA profiling, Chuck. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.400 We have not in this country or the UK, from 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:44.280 what I can imagine, um, had any real discussion about 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.720 doing it right we So we've never really come together 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.400 and said, Okay, do we want a crime free society 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.280 or as close to a crime free society as we 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.760 can get. If so, then yes, everybody needs to turn 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.360 in a DNA sample. If we all agreed that's what 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.720 we want. If we decide that we would rather live 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.080 with crime in combating crime under the techniques that we 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:12.000 have now to maintain our privacy, then DNA sampling has 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.760 to stop. DNA profiling has to stop. And the problem 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.600 is we've never had that conversation either way, right, Well, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.520 the public certainly hasn't had so, but it's been continuing along. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.440 And then when you talk about the half a million 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.040 names wrong, it's like, well, you're doing this without our consenter, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.600 even asking us, and you're not even doing it right right. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.920 The thing is, though they I don't even know, even 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.679 if they hone this down, can you really prevent crime? 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.080 I mean, even cops will tell you there's no such 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.440 thing as preventing crime. Cops go after criminals after they've 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.400 committed a crime. But unless it's just dumb luck, how 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.760 many times has a cop come upon a crime before 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.600 it happens and stopped it? Well that's there. There's there 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.320 are two different um groups, one in the UK and 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.280 one in America, which apparently are the two leading trees 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.319 in DNA profiling for crime prevention. Um that are that 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.920 that say no, we we do need to do that 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.800 and we're trying to is that the homicide prevention unit 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.600 in London think about the name of that homicide prevention 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.520 unit and they're doing it by forecasting crime. Yeah, well, 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.480 psychological profiling to which they've done for a while, and 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:25.240 that's a little less hinky and invasive than obviously DNA profiling. Right, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.600 But what about when you combine the two. Why would 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.480 you combine DNA with a psychological profile to catch the 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.600 bad guys? I guess to an extent. But at the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.240 same time, what we're talking about is looking at DNA 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.360 to find out if we can find a genetic defect 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.400 in somebody that we suggest that maybe they have a 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.240 short temper, or that they're sociopathic or whatever. If you 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.080 combine that with a psychological profile. But where does that 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.760 profile come from? Maybe records from mental health workers, or 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:59.160 maybe your insurance records, or your doctor or dental records. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.240 I mean, and then doing that now, but who knows 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.000 what could happen that. That's the point. If this database 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.199 gets big enough, or I should say, if it gets 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:13.679 accurate enough, then yeah, people will probably start getting leaned 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.600 on to provide information to be contributed to this database 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.320 for use by law enforce. Yeah. Once you have enough 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:25.280 information and you are confident enough that you can prevent 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.600 a crime, or if you can say this person is 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.320 probably going to kill somebody, what do they do though? 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:32.960 That's what I want to know. Did they just start 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.440 It's obviously not gonna happen like Minority Report in that 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.880 film and the story Tom Cruise knocks on your door 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.240 and says you're under arrest for the future murder of 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.640 your wife. They're clearly not talking about that. That's impossible 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.160 in the stuff of science fiction. But what they just 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.200 monitor someone or tail someone, so basically potentially dangerous people 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.200 just be under surveillance at all times, I guess so. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.320 But what if you've never committed a crime in your 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.480 entire life and don't intend to. But you've the cops 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.440 breathing down your neck every night. Anywhere you go, there's 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.000 a cop following you. You go on a date, there's 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.560 a cop following you. You take your mother out for dinner, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.400 there's a cop following you. I mean, if you've never 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.160 committed a crime in your life, how fair is that? Well? Right? 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.000 And plus if someone's tailing you, and I don't know, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.880 I could I could see a scenario where some renegade 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.480 cop um trumps up a traffic violation and pulls you 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.560 over and shakes you down. And you know, it's not 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.880 like police. I mean, trust me, I'm not dragging on 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:31.720 the police, who do a great job. But there are 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.480 cases where people are framed and weapons are planted. And 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.880 if some guy they think is a really bad person 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.920 waiting to happen, what's to stop a cop from trailing 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.000 him and doing just that. So, not only that, but 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.000 what happens if um, somebody gets access to this, if 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.720 this information in the database is disseminated, and then you've 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:52.480 got somebody who's like, well, you know what, I'm going 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.320 to take it upon myself to rid society of these people. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.480 Who may commit a crime. You know, most I can't 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.120 say most, but there's a lot serial killers out there who, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.000 once caught say that they were doing a service to society. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.720 Ever seen that. I haven't yet, but I am aware 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.080 of same scenario. I love six ft under and he 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.920 dies by the way. Um the the the killer John 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.480 Wayne Gacy expected that he was going to get a 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.160 rap on the knuckles because what he'd done is just 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.920 rid society and some bad kids. That's what he said, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.440 Bernie gets I remember, and I guess was that the 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.680 New York Yeah, he went Charlie Bronson on everyone, and 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.360 he was the subway vigilantia. He definitely was. But he's 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.760 a serial killer, is what he is. I thought he 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.680 I thought he just killed some guys once. Did he 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.800 kill more than one time? Yeah? I think so wow, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.120 I might be wrong. We'll hear from it. But um okay, 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.359 so yes, there's a possibility of vigilantism. There's a possibility 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:52.080 of police harassment. There's also another possibility called well self 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.800 fulfilling prophecy. Um. Remember we talked about kids getting their 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.920 DNA taken, Miners getting their DNA taken if they're ever 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:05.800 arrested for anything UM. And there's also a push I 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.320 guess to make to round this database out as much 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.840 as possible for any kid who has a behavioral problem 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.000 or maybe gets in trouble at school, for the school 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.480 to provide information about that kid so that they can say, 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:20.919 we're going to keep an eye on you for the 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.359 rest of your life because you're starting to fit this 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.280 profile with somebody who might kill somebody later, or maybe 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.760 he just has a d D or maybe the teacher 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.800 doesn't like him. Who knows. The problem is is if 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.320 you know that if you're six and somebody's like, you 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.640 might kill somebody someday, what is it like to grow 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.720 up for the next thirty years or so thinking that 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.040 people assume that you're gonna kill somebody one day? Well 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.840 they tell you, though I I don't know, there's got 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.879 to be something that it might not be that explicit. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.440 Both children parents are probably notified at the very least, 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.480 right and if the parents say you're a bad kid, 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.880 that's why they're watching you, well, why wouldn't the kid 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.160 go be a bad kid? There's a lot of concern 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:05.280 is here right in in the US UM we talked 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.720 about the homicide prevention unit in the UK. By the way, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.480 the senior criminal psychologist Laura Richards has said that her 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.840 vision is to know who the top one people most 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.800 potentially violent people in London are at any given time. 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.359 You know, Squibby's on that list. Sure, and you know 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.720 when they keep like most wanted lists, gangs especially love 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.880 getting at the top. And I should probably take the 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.920 opportunity right here to save our lives. Uh, it's MS thirteen, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.479 I understand, not MS twelve. Right. Yeah, we've referred to 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.920 a gang as MS twelve in the Witness Protection show 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.040 and it is MS thirteen and we got that wrong. Agreed. Um. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.000 Over here in the U S there's a guy named 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:49.840 Richard Burke who's the University of Pennsylvania sociologists and statistician. Yeah. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.880 I don't mind this one as much. No, it's much 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.600 much more innocuous. Yeah, well, it's not an invasive because 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.680 they're not actually taking your DNA or fingerprints. He uh 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.160 was he a University of Pennsylvania. He's a cry I'm 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.840 a criminology professor, and he has actually developed an algorithm 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:10.160 using thirty different variables from you know, when a kid 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:11.760 was young and as they grow up, if they have 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.280 offenses or if they were abused, and he determines a 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.440 lethality score, which I don't know, it's it's a little 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.200 more I can I can accept this in a way 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.320 I can't too. But at the same time, I was 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.760 a little well, I'm still put off by the idea 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.360 of forecasting crime and an effort to prevent it from 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.080 ever happening. Um. But I did go on and check 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.240 out some of this guy's stuff and he has another 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:41.040 thing UM called crime regimes where he's taking into account 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.600 see that that lethality score is all uh centered around 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.679 the individual. And there's a movement of foot where sociology 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:53.240 is making a huge move to take crime completely away 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.560 from psychology. I talked to a sociologists who's like, psychology 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:01.640 is completely failed at explaining serial murder. Sociology is time 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.320 to explain it. Right. So this guy's taking into account 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.480 like time of day, day of the weak area, UM, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:13.000 like like the location, uh is the drug trade there stable? 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.720 If so, then there's probably gonna be less crime because 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.640 there's not gonna be tur force things like that, UM. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.120 And even larger stuff needs to be taken into account 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.320 to like the economic situation that always creates more crimes, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.119 but for a group or an area and not an 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.720 individuals that what you mean. I imagine that this guy 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.560 will probably eventually try to put both together. So if 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.840 you've got a lethality score, guy with the lethality score, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.400 and he's living in a high risk area, then all 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.480 of a sudden, the cops might want to go, we 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.960 should really keep an eye on that guy, you know. 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.040 So it makes it a little more honed. The problem 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:48.199 is is this would probably be eventually compiled with the 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.080 nd I S here in the States. Yeah, if it 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.040 turned out to be a pretty good algorithm and it 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.439 was pretty accurate, I'm sure the government would get their 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:59.160 mits on it soon enough. So yeah, and it's not like, um, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.640 it's we were talking about health mental health workers being 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.920 leaned on to to give up information, or doctors disclosing 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:11.520 their met records. Insurance companies, UH and Census Information did 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.480 not know this. I didn't either, which is funny because 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.320 we're about to talk about population in about five minutes. Yeah, 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.840 apparently the census records, the public doesn't have access to 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.119 those for seventy two years after it's taken. I I guess, 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.200 I guess some aspects of it, because it's I've definitely 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.840 accessed census statistics that are a lot less than seventy 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.280 two years old, right, I think you can access the numbers, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.199 but I think all of the information. Yeah, yeah, but 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.720 the FBI routinely gets that information if they wanted. The 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.520 Japanese Japanese Americans were identified using census statistics or sensus 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:50.040 information during World War Two for the internment camp, right, Um, 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.720 And uh, that that was I guess kind of against 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.560 the grain. Maybe usually we don't usually do that, I understand. 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.160 I think we do it done in Texas these days 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.080 with UM Hispanics trying to make it across the border interesting. 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.040 So writes violations all over the place, then, right, yes, 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.960 but apparently it's having an effect on crime, Yeah, I 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.760 guess so. UM supporters in England will say that more 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:16.840 than twice as many crimes have been solved using the 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.040 DNA samples in the year two thousand five as we're 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.120