1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: What you are about to hear is a work of 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: investigative journalism that explores one woman's search for answers in 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: her son's death. The views and opinions in this podcast 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: do not reflect those of I Heart Media. Previously on Somebody, 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: the first car that we thought were the police that 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: was not Courtney's vehicle in the league, and they found 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: some new evidence that said that it may have happened 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: the way the police stated. The metaphor of walking back 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: and assumption feels exactly right. You're really trying to reorient 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: and reboot really the entire investigation. Every part of me 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: wants to believe that my son could have survived. Every 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: part of me. It looks like they are handcuffing a 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: suspect to bring them in for an arrest. My name 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: is Chaparral Wells. This is a story of my on Courtney, 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: a young black man in a fancy car who wound 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: up with a bullet in his back in front of 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: a Chicago police station. And it's the story of my 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: search for the truth. This is somebody, everybody, somebody every day, 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: No bide, no, no, that's right. This is a video 20 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: of Courtney sleeping. Babe still want to go out. It's 21 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: taken a few years ago by his girlfriend at the time, Roseo. Babe, 22 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: you still want to go out? Churn up. Hmm Yeah. 23 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: Roseo and Courtney they were one of those on again, 24 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: off again couples, but everyone knew that Rosseo was the 25 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: love of his life. She always felt like a daughter 26 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: to me and still does. Can you show us your tattoo? 27 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: This is it, but it's um actually Courtney's name, and 28 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 1: the date we started officially dating. Um. It's kind of funny. 29 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: It was eleven, twelve thirteen. I made him way to 30 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: day to ask me out the next day so it 31 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: could be eleven. Corney was very caring and for Rosseo, 32 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: she received all of that. He'd make up breakfast, he'd 33 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: packed her lunch. He even sometimes he watched her niece 34 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: for her. He's like, oh, this is a kid I'm 35 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: taking to school and babysitting her And I'm like, you're 36 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: doing what? Yeah. He just loved kids. Rosie and Courtney 37 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: joining World Ventures at the same time. She also got 38 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: a BMW as a sales reward. Courtney's was my room 39 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: and Rossel's was Champagne. I'm kind of competitive, so as 40 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: soon as Corney pulled it out, I was like, I 41 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: have to go get mine too. But at World Ventures, 42 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: Courtney had a lot of other female co workers. You know, 43 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: Courtney really loved women. That's Maryland. She worked with Courtney. 44 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: She saw all the drama around him. There was always 45 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: an incident with with something like, oh, you know, you're 46 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: flaring with this girl or you're talking to this girl. 47 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: She can't be playing games and having like all these 48 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: different like you know, girls that you're talking to, like 49 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: we're here to run a business. When I think about 50 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: all these other women that it things that he had 51 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: a relationship with, they were to me just filling the gap. 52 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: Here I am talking to Alison from the Invisible Institute 53 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: about all of this. Don't know why he and r 54 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: broke up because he was shams. Oh she found out that. 55 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: I knew Courtney had a lot of little girl friends, 56 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: but what I didn't know is that his love life 57 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: was getting in the way of his job. I found 58 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: this recording of Courtney talking about his setbacks at work. 59 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 1: You think about me is that you know, it looks 60 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: good on the outside, but sometimes it can be bad 61 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: behind closed doors, and you know, and that's that's that's 62 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: the obstacles that you're gonna have to go through. You're 63 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: gonna have to be able to take a punch in. 64 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: Courtney's boss set him down more than once and told 65 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: him he needed to stop dating people from World Ventures. 66 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: They even removed him from the leadership team. But Courtney 67 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: started seeing another co worker anyway, so they had to 68 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: keep it a secret. Her name was Alma, and the 69 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: night he was killed, Courtney was on his way to 70 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: her house. When word got out that Courtney was shot, 71 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: all of his friends started calling each other. They were 72 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: trying to figure out who Courtney was going to see 73 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: at that hour. Eventually they landed on Alma. A lot 74 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: of people were very very up that were Courtney's coworker, 75 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: Maryland again, because first of all, we had no idea, 76 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: like no idea that you know, they were even like 77 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: talking or messing around or anything. She lives in a 78 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: really rough neighborhood. Maybe an exploit for saw something and 79 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: got upset that Cortney was there, Like you know, so 80 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: many things ran through our head, and of course the 81 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: first thing to do is blame her, because why were 82 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: you even there. A few hours after Courtney died, the 83 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: police went to see out mom and they drove her 84 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: to the hospital. Lots of Courtney's friends were there. Courtney's 85 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: friends were grilling Alma for information. She told them that 86 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: she didn't hear anything, she didn't see anything, just that 87 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: Courtney had text her saying he was outside her house 88 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: and then he never showed up. I wonder if they 89 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: would have blamed her if that hadn't if they hadn't 90 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: been romantically involved. I feel like people do that to women. 91 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: You know, you could see the pain on her face 92 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: that she felt some sort of guilt, and I told 93 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: her at that that very day, you can't feel guilty, 94 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: Corney Courtney. Ultimately, Cortney made the choice. He unfortunately made 95 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: a choice that was deadly for him. The more I 96 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: learned about Almah, the more I understood this wasn't just 97 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: the hookup situation. It was starting to get serious is 98 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: and he was trying to bond with her kids, and 99 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: he was over there at three or four nights a week. 100 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: It had been more than a year since my last 101 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: meeting with police. In their latest case update in Courtney's 102 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,679 Speaker 1: file just stated that they had no updates. I needed 103 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: to know who shot my son and clearly the police 104 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: weren't going to be any help, so Alison and I 105 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: we went on without them. We kept going through Courtney's phone, 106 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: trying to understand not only who he was talking to, 107 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: but what was going on in his life in the 108 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: exact time of his interactions that last night. We got 109 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: help from this digital forensic expert, Dr Ashley Podowski, who 110 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: volunteered her time to go through Courtney's phone. Hi, Ashley, 111 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: how are you. I'm doing good. How are you doing? 112 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm doing very well. She has these tools to scrape 113 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: every bit of information off the phone and organize it 114 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: so we can find any clues that were there. So 115 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm actually sending you something right now. I mean, she's 116 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: got an email from drop box. She's based in South Dakota, 117 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: so we had to send her Cordiney's phone. I was 118 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: nervous that the phone could get lost, because you know, 119 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: that was all that I had of him, and it 120 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: was evidence. So I was just nervous of it leaving 121 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: my presence. These are precious things to me. It was 122 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: about a week and a half when we received the 123 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: phone back. It came back safe and sound, thank god. 124 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: Plus it came back with a detail log of all 125 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: Cortneys calls texts with time stamps as accurate as they 126 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: can get. I calmbed through them with my family. When 127 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: did he make the nine one one? Carl at one 128 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: sixty three, so from one level, it had to be 129 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: about one twelve. Now after this, okay, I'm going We 130 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: were looking for signs that Courtney was in trouble, that 131 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: something was going on, but we didn't see anything. The 132 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: only thing that we found was him goofing off with 133 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: his friends and also singing and dancing and making videos. 134 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: Then we looked at the day he was killed. I 135 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: wanted to see exactly when Courtney and Alma were in touch. 136 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: He sent her a text in top of the morning 137 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: at am. She rolled back a few hours later, and 138 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: then they were texting all afternoon, lots of heart emojis. 139 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: He messaged her again about ten PM from a World 140 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: Venturous presentation. He was in the city training a new 141 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: recruit Casey. Everybody was really happy like um. By the 142 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: end of the night, we ended up listening to music 143 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: and he was wrapping, which was really cool. I found 144 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: the photo of Cordney circled up around a kitchen table 145 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: with some friend He's wearing his favorite red hoodie and 146 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: everyone is holding Dixie cups. Corney is doing a hand 147 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: gesture and basically it's the rock on sign. Corney was 148 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: always doing the rock on side and pictures rock on dude. 149 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: You know, right about midnight, Courtney text Alma saying I 150 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: need to book a massage super sore. Then Alma text 151 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: him back, I got you. Corney says when, and she 152 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: wrote today. Then just before one in the morning, Corney 153 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: headed to her house and Belmont Craigan. On the way there, 154 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: Courtney was just being his social butterfly self. He was 155 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: on his phone. He was talking to friends and chatting 156 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: on Facebook Messenger. He texts Alma, I'm outside. She texts back, 157 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: what really, and he was like, yo, okay, I'm going, 158 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: she said, meaning that she was headed downstairs to open 159 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: the gate. From the phone records and parking tickets that 160 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: we found, we know that Courtney and Alma had this 161 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: little routine. He drive down her street, cut through the alley, 162 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: and parked by the church where he could leave his 163 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: car overnight, right by this gold statue of Jesus arms 164 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: open wide. Courtney would text Alma saying he arrived, so 165 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: she go downstairs and opened the gate for him. They 166 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: did this several nights a week, over and over again. 167 00:11:52,120 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Ali Park Alma, Ali Park Alma. And that night on 168 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: March four, Corney sent his last text to Alma at 169 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: one eleven in the morning, but he never showed up 170 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: at her door. I've been uh living in ministering here 171 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: for nineteen years already. This is Father Richard Ballas. He's 172 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: a Catholic priest at the church on the corner St. 173 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: Stanislaus Bishop and Martyr. Father Ballas lives on the second 174 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: floor of the church rectory. I know there was a 175 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: shooting movie here right in front of the rectory between 176 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: the two streets there. I remember that, and they put 177 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: flowers there, and but I don't remember the name. I'm 178 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: probably numb to a lot of this. And what about 179 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: that police station right there? Do you have any interaction 180 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: with the police there ever? Well, yeah, the the policemen 181 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: very good to us. We used to have perish carnivals 182 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: every year, and of course for security we had the 183 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: police at that. The previous pastor stopped it because of 184 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: games the gangs in Belmont Craigan. It feels safe during 185 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: the day. There's parks and schools, but at night it's 186 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: a different story. I had one, two, three, four or 187 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: five six eight cameras. This is Jerry Brito. He's a 188 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: mechanic who's lived in Bellmont Craigan for twenty five years. 189 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: Down the street from the church where Courtney used to 190 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: park to go to Alma's. Jerry's put up cameras all 191 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: over his property. He says, some years are quiet, some 192 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: years are really rough, like when someone moves out and 193 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: some of the people move in and they start selling drugs, 194 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: or they have people are joining gangs and they bring 195 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,359 Speaker 1: the gangs over in Bellmont Craigan. The gangs are mostly Hispanic. 196 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: You've got the stylers, the Royals, and the Patucos. Then 197 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: there's the Four Corner Hustlers, a black gang. They've all 198 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: got their territories. Jerry says the police come to his 199 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: house all the time to pull his camera footage because 200 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: the city's cameras don't always work. They even got his 201 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: videos for Courtney's case. They always respectful and they'd tried 202 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: to do the best they can with what they have. 203 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: And when the city's cameras don't work, the gang bangers 204 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: know it. If they've been shooting. They know that they 205 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: can get away with it. To the camera is not working, 206 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: that's a problem, if you ask me, He's right. Broken 207 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: cameras are a serious problem around Chicago. Citizens pay for 208 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: them to help solve crimes, but often they don't work, 209 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: like the camera on the corner by Alma's place, the 210 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: most critic called camera. Courtney's police file says that camera 211 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: didn't capture anything because of a DVR error. Chapralle and 212 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: I've gone over this quite a lot. She's still suspicious. 213 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: It just tells me, like this whole pod cameras and 214 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: all these things, I just don't trust it that camera 215 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: would have shown Courtney going down that street and turning 216 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: into the alleyway. We've gone out to the neighborhood several 217 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: times to track down other cameras to see if police 218 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: missed any. Did they get this one? I wonder if 219 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: they got the better Yeah, so they have cameras too. 220 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: We don't know if they get that. We did find 221 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: cameras that were not noted in their reports, but it's 222 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: possible they were put up after Courtney's death, so we 223 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: didn't have any footage, but we knew there had to 224 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: be more information out there. I believe that somebody knows something, 225 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: somebody saw something, and it just takes a lot of 226 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: courage um from somebody to tell what they saw. All 227 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: the police file on Courtney's case was thin. They only 228 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: documented interviews with a handful of people, So we decided 229 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: to go back and reinterview everyone the detectives talked to. 230 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: That meant it was time to talk to Alma, Courtney's 231 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: secret girlfriend. Alma and I haven't really been in touch, 232 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: but now Allison really wanted to talk to her. So 233 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: almost two years after Courtney's death, I text Alma to 234 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: see if she would meet with us. As I was 235 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: texting her back and forth, Alma mentioned something something that 236 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: she never told me before, and I think it's totally 237 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: crazy that she will withhold this information. She said she 238 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: heard gunshots the night Courtney died. I asked her that 239 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: question the day after Courtney was killed, I asked her 240 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: did she hear anything? Did she see anything? And this 241 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: girl never once told me that she heard gunshots the 242 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: night that he died. Hi there your Alma. Hi'm Allison. 243 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: Very nice to meet you. Thank you for setting us 244 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: side the time. This is Bill in February, I arranged 245 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: a meeting. We met up with her on the North 246 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: side of Chicago in Uptown, where Alma works at a 247 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: cell phone shop. I remember it was freezing outside, so 248 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: we used a conference room in a lawyer's office nearby. Yeah, yeah, 249 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: I know, you were probably like, oh, I don't want 250 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: to go out, and now we're literally right around the corner. 251 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: I sat next to Alma, Bill and Allison sat across 252 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: the table. All the microphones and the fact that we 253 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: were in a law office made it feel sort of 254 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: like an interrogation. And Alma, she definitely looked tense. The 255 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: way she was sitting. It was like she was protecting herself. 256 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: I was just praying that she would finally tell us 257 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: everything she knew. I was just ready to put myself 258 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: in her train of thought and let her tell her story. 259 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: Alma played us some videos of Courtney when we first 260 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: sat down. This was like one of those good morning videos, 261 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: like he was awake, was everybody else doing? It's him? 262 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: And he was always trying to make me laugh because 263 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: I was always really serious. That was him all the time. 264 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: He'll say the USA or not the US, that let's 265 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: get it. Did the people you work with now that 266 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: you guys were romantically involved. No, okay, so it was 267 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: sort of on the down though, Yes, okay, how did 268 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: you feel about that? Um? I was fine with that. 269 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: It was it was a little bit complicated, just because 270 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: of the way that our team is set up. They've 271 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: been keeping their relationship a secret for months, but Courtney 272 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: had become close with her three kids. Well, I told 273 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: my son that Courtney passed and he asked me what happened, 274 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: and I told him that he was shot, and he 275 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: just started crying. Did he ask a lot of questions? Um? No. 276 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: After that, he just he didn't want to be outside. 277 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: He would always tell me we had to hurry up. 278 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: Do you sense that the kids are still afraid? For 279 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: a long time, they were like coming home from school, 280 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: my son would say, we have to starry up because 281 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to die. We went back to that night. 282 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: We asked Alma to walk us through what she remembered. 283 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: H He messaged me like around close to one in 284 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 1: the morning, and then uh, he asked me if I 285 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: was home, if he could come over. She said she 286 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: was in her room listening to music on her headphones 287 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: and her roommate Brianna came in to tell her that 288 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: she was making a late night run to Walgreens. As 289 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: she was telling me that we heard two gunshots and 290 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: a car drive off. And was that before or after 291 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: you'd gone downstairs to be ready to open the door. No, 292 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: that was before we heard the gunshots, like as I 293 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: was receiving the text message that he was there. So 294 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: the text message came in and we heard the gun 295 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: shots at the same time. She went downstairs to open 296 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: the gate as usual, but Courtney wasn't there. What did 297 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: you think happened at that point in time. I mean, 298 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: I was a little bit worried, but it's not It's 299 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: not unlike him to change plans quickly. Because I almost 300 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: said she heard gunshots right as she got Courtney's text 301 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: saying I'm outside. It was one eleven am. But that 302 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: just didn't make sense to us because we knew that 303 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: four minutes after Courtney text Alma, he was still alive 304 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: and well. He was messing around on his phone Facebook, 305 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: messaging his friend Brandon, who had just gotten a new job. 306 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: Courtney wrote to Brandon, nice, bro, You're gonna kill it man. 307 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: Courtney sent that text message to Brandon at one fifteen am. 308 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: That was four minutes after he texts Alma and the 309 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: Forends that expert confirmed those times. Allison showed Alma the 310 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: timeline we put together, so we have if you're hearing 311 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: the shots here, obviously he's not gonna be doing He's 312 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: not gonna be text you know, saying to Brandon, nice bro, 313 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna kill it man. So does this at all 314 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: like revising your brain what might have happened, or like 315 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: when you might have heard the shots? Does this refresh 316 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: anything for you? It doesn't make sense. Okay, but you're 317 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: you're pretty competent that you heard the shots before you said, okay, 318 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to go open the door. It was between 319 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: here and here. My text messages were back to back. 320 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: Did it sound like distance or did it sound really close? 321 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: It sounded close. It was two of them pretty like 322 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: back to back. It sounded like they were either on 323 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: the street or like on the block over, but they 324 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: were close. It didn't sound like it was just a 325 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: when you heard the shots, as you think, oh that 326 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: that could be Courtney or did it not even cross 327 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: your mind? It didn't cross my mind because around that time, 328 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: like there was just a lot of things going on 329 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, so we had heard gunshots before, you know, 330 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: and it was it wasn't something that was like out 331 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: of the ordinary. We kept asking Alma to replay this moment. 332 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: Was she really sure about her timing? Almost in her 333 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: bedroom with her roommate, there's music on her headphones, and 334 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: then they hear gunshots? How many shots too? And did 335 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: you all make eye contact or acknowledge that you had 336 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: both just heard shots? Or was it just so commonplace 337 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't even have a reaction. Really well, I 338 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: had my headphones on, so I took him on off, 339 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: and she was like, did you hear that? And I 340 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: said yeah, but I wasn't sure. So after that, she 341 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: said that she was going to the store, and I 342 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: told her that she should wait because we didn't know 343 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: what was going on. She went to all grants, did 344 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: she see anything not on her way there? Um, when 345 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: she was on her way back from the store, she 346 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: said that there were police officers with flashlights looking up 347 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: and down the street like they were looking for something. 348 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: So I couldn't understand why I took almost so long 349 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: to speak up about this. I specifically asked her after 350 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: corney died more than once. If she had heard any shots, 351 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: I was piste off and I know I'll both positive. 352 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: I asked, did you hear anything? But I never recalled 353 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: you saying anything like that, So I was like, when 354 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: you said it, I was like, because we were we 355 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: were piecing together at the timeline, we we had to 356 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: figure that somebody else would have had to have heard something. 357 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,959 Speaker 1: So that's why that question I posed that to you, 358 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: And so I was like, okay, because that was like 359 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: an important piece of information. Just at the time I 360 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: wasn't sure. I felt like I had to be sure. 361 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: Even if Alma wasn't sure, she still should have told 362 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: me something. And she didn't even tell the detectives when 363 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: they came to our house that morning, she said no. 364 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: One't even asked her about the shots. Instead, they asked 365 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: her about the password to Courtney's phone. To his phone, 366 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: I told him he has a kN iPhone, it's his fingerprint. 367 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: He didn't never passwords his finger print. By the time 368 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: that we got the phone back, the phone's on locks, 369 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: so they probably had to take his finger and to 370 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: lock his phone. The police got into Courtney's phone just 371 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: hours after he died. They put in their report that 372 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: Courtney's pass code was his birthday. Now, I know that 373 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: couldn't be true because he had way too many girlfriends 374 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: to do something like that. When the police talked to Alma, 375 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: they wanted to see her phone too, and they just 376 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: looked at it and they said it wasn't gonna be 377 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: much help, and they just handed me back my phone. 378 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: How long did they have her phone far, maybe like 379 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: thirty seconds, just opened it and he looked up and down. 380 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: And they never asked you if you heard anything, or 381 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: they didn't consider your witness. No. After that, they just 382 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: gave me their business card and they said that they 383 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: were going to call me to speak with me. And 384 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: after that I never heard from them. There's just a 385 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: few lines and Courtney's foul about the police talking to Alma. 386 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: But then there's another report about one of Alma's ex boyfriends. 387 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: His name was Kevin, but he also went by Hawk. 388 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: They all worked together. Alma and Courtney actually met for 389 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: the first time at a birthday party for Hawk. Alma 390 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: said Hawk Kevin tried to start a fight with Courtney 391 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: that now, Courtney says something to me, like, you know, 392 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: we were at a birthday party, people were having drinks. 393 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: Um he said something to me him and I laughed 394 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: it off. Kevin overheard, and the next thing you know, 395 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: there was like an exchange of words, and then Kevin 396 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: tried to fight Courtney. I think he was just jealous 397 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: of how Courtney was as a person and how other 398 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: people reacted to him. I think that was really it. 399 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't anything else, someone told the police. After Courtney died, 400 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: Hawk posted then deleted a message on Facebook saying sorry Courtney, 401 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: you can take that different ways. But then three of 402 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: Courtney's friends remember another message he posted on Snapchat saying 403 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: something like, Lord, forgive me because would he have even 404 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: known that Courtney was on rout to your place morning? No, 405 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: that day, after I came back from the hospital, he 406 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: came to my house and he asked me what Courtney 407 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: was doing on his way to my house. So he 408 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: was surprised to learn that you two were seeing each other. 409 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: I don't think, I mean, no one knows until now. 410 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 1: And again, you didn't feel like he could be involved 411 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: in this in some way, No, like no chance or 412 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: like probably probably not. Since Courtney died, I've been asking 413 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: Alma about her other ex boyfriends. She told me one 414 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: was in prison. We looked it up. He was in 415 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: for attempted murder. Another X was just getting out of 416 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: jail when Courtney was killed. But all the way in 417 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: New Jersey. We asked Alma if she had any suspicions 418 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: of who killed Courtney. No, not, who might have done it. 419 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: I know that um, Like down the street from where 420 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: I live, there's a house that UM this guy like 421 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's a game member. He lives there. 422 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: We ended up getting into the conversation of what happened 423 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: to Courtney, and he told me he's like, it wasn't 424 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: anyone from this neighborhood. He's like, I think someone mistook 425 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: him for someone else. Wait a goddamn it, Al'm waa 426 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: talk to this guy and he knows something about what 427 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: happened to my son. And she never told me this either. 428 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I had the whole my tongue. Y'all. 429 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: When did you have the conversation with the guy who 430 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: lives in that house about what he said happened? Um? 431 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: It was I don't remember the exact day. It was 432 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: like two days after I got punched in the face, 433 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: so like my eye was a little swollen, and I 434 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: had like a hoodie on and um when I was 435 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: walking down the street, he saw me with my eyes 436 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: swollen and he asked me, you know who hit me? 437 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: Said no, I got punched the face. Do you mind 438 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: telling us what happened? Alma looked over at me. Bill 439 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: and Alison looked at me too. I hadn't told them 440 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: about this, the punching incident. It happened at my place. 441 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: A couple of days after Courtney died. I was at 442 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: Chapelle's house. Uh, talking to someone there and what happen? 443 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: Punched in the face? What who chappar? Can you enlighten us? 444 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: Is Courtney's cousin. This was honestly pretty embarrassing for me 445 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: because when I invited Alma to my house, I wanted 446 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: her to feel comfortable, but then this crazy cousin of 447 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: Courtney's physically attacked Alma. We were just talking. They asked 448 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: me what happened that day. I told him exactly what 449 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: I remembered, and then in the middle of the conversation, 450 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: they said, you killed my cousin and they punched me 451 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: in the face. Why did the person accuse you of that? 452 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just what he said. Everybody was 453 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: trying to find out what happened to Courtney, and everybody 454 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: was trying to lay blame from where because it just 455 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: didn't make sense. My family was like, he shouldn't be 456 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: over in that neighborhood. That's that's the Hispanic neighborhood. Why 457 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: is he over there? He's with that girl, you know. 458 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: That's how they felt. This is why things were strained 459 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: between me and Almas since Courtney died. Why will she 460 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: cooperate with us after I let her get punched in 461 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: the face. But let's get back to Alma's neighbor. The 462 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: guy who seemed to know something. Do you know his name? 463 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't. I just you know what he looks like. Yeah, 464 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: he's uh, shorter than myself. He has really long hair, 465 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: like don't pass his waist, and he has a few tattoos. Um, 466 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: but he's old. Is walking around the neighborhood. The day 467 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: after Courtney was shot, he said that his house was 468 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: rated by him by the police. They came in searching 469 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: his house. I never seen anything about this guy and 470 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: the police file, no raid, no nothing. But I had 471 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: a vague recollection of him too. I remember like after 472 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: the shooting when we were all in Belmont Craigan passing 473 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: out reward flyers. I do remember a man with long 474 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: black hair standing on his deck talking on his cell phone. 475 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: Just then a bunch of kids came out on bikes 476 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: to see what we were doing, as though he sent 477 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: them over or something. It felt strange, but there was 478 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: so much going on at the time. I just fouled 479 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: it away. Thank you so much time. This was like therapy. 480 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 1: Never talked about him right. We said goodbye to Alma 481 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: and headed back into the colde. The next day, my 482 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: aunt Kim came over. Kim and I were raised like 483 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: sisters because we're so close in age. I need to 484 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: see the report that the police took on her. I 485 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: told her all the details of our interview with Alma. 486 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: Reread this stuff being I'm saying, I'm like, oh that, mommy. 487 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: I told him about Alma hearing shots after all the 488 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: problems with her timeline in this new story about the 489 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: guy with the long hair, all the stuff the police 490 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: had missed. They barely asked her anything when they talked 491 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: to her hours after Courtney died. They didn't speak to 492 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: her roommate either. They just never followed up when you 493 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: when you getting somebody and you interview right now, you 494 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: still actually new same question, just to see if it 495 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: lays up. You want to know what you are. Did 496 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: you see anybody running? How many shots? None of that 497 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: stuff was asked. Police hadn't given me any updates, hadn't 498 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: told me what they thought happened to Courtney. But it 499 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: turns out Nurse Hawkins from the e R said police 500 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: told her that very night Courtney came in what they 501 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: thought happened a car jacking, and they they still want 502 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: to He tried the car jacking on and he sped away. 503 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: They shot into the car. He drove to the police 504 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: station and asked for help, saying that he had got shot, 505 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: and that's when they called the paramedics. This whole thing 506 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: is just get stranger and stranger by the minute. I 507 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: have theories in my head. Who knows, but somebody covering 508 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: for somebody. So when Alma told us that this long 509 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: hair guy down the street said police raided his house 510 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: the day after Corney died, we needed to know more. 511 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: We looked, but we couldn't find a record of the raid. 512 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: But we did find lots of other times police were 513 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: sent to this house, including for shots fired. Police found 514 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: shell cases and everything. So a few weeks after our 515 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: interview with Alma, Allison and Bill took a team to 516 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: Belmont Craigan to find this guy. So I'm gonna pull 517 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: up to the church and then we can look at 518 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: see if there are any skid marks. Yeah, that's very 519 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: close to where it's like right behind where Courtney would 520 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: have potentially been shot, like you know, on the opposite 521 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: side of the church. Five teller suit you. We walked 522 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: up to the gate of his house. Sure enough, this 523 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: guy was standing on his second floor deck and he 524 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: had long hair, just like Alma described. We called to him. 525 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: We didn't record because we didn't want to scare him off. 526 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: He wouldn't come down, he wouldn't give us his name 527 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: or phone number, but he talked to us from the deck. 528 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: He said he didn't remember Courtney shooting, but he did 529 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: remember that he was asleep that particular night March four, 530 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: two years before then. He told us it was a 531 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: black guy who got shot. When we asked if he 532 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: had any trouble with police in the area, he said 533 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: he couldn't talk about that because he works with them 534 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: providing janitorial services. He wished us luck. He said we 535 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: were doing a good thing for the family. We dug 536 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: around and got his arrest records. His rap sheet is long. 537 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: Once he was arrested for driving a car in an 538 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: armed robbery, but most of the cases against him have 539 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: been dropped in court. I hope you goings. Thank you 540 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: for making what we were doing. A few weeks later, 541 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: Alma put us in touch with her former roommate Brianna, 542 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: the one she'd been living with whom Courtney was killed. 543 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: I met up with her at a dunkin Donuts. She 544 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: remembers the night when Courtney was shot, but says she 545 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: was the one who heard the shots, not Alma Um. 546 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: So when I heard it, I went up to her 547 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: and I had asked her if she had heard anything, 548 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: and she let me know that she was in her room. 549 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: She had her headphones on so she couldn't hear anything. 550 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: So their stories didn't fully line up. But Brianna also 551 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: remembered that guy who lived a few doors down. He 552 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: had like longer hair, um black hair, and he um 553 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: he had a couple of tattoos. Do you know if 554 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: you ever tried to talk to Alma just um, they 555 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: would pass by through the neighborhood and it was just 556 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: a high and by as far as I know, at 557 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 1: the time of the shooting in Brianna was dating Christian Hernandez, 558 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: the guy who co signed for Courtney's BMW. So a 559 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: few days after I talked to Brianna, Chapel and I 560 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: talked to Christian, he came over to Chapel's place with 561 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: his new girlfriend and their baby. How old. Oh wow, 562 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: congratulations boy girl. Okay, I have a little boy too, 563 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: he's nineteen months old. Can't wait, Collete. We settled in 564 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: around the dining room table and started talking. Christian said 565 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: that right after Courtney died at a candlelight vigil, Almah 566 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: told him she had her shots. She told me when 567 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: Abriel was outside right here with the candles, And I 568 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: asked it, did you tell Chapel? She said he yes, 569 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: but she did not tell chaparl And I talked to 570 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: five of Courtney's other friends who had been in touch 571 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: with Alma in the days following. Almah didn't tell them 572 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: about hearing shots either. Then Christian's girlfriend nudged him. She'd 573 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: been quiet most of the interview, but it was clear 574 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: she wanted him to tell us something. He seemed tentative, 575 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: like he didn't want to say I had. It was 576 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: about Alma and something she posted to Facebook the same 577 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: night I met with Brianna. What are you going to 578 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: tell them that the thea she called you that he 579 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: went on Facebook and he's seen and he showed it 580 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: to me. Alma put an emoji with like the zipper 581 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: face and like that. I don't know how what's a 582 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: called is doing this? And I told herm like, well 583 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: that's weird. Christian's girlfriend made a sign with her hands, 584 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: that thing Courtney always did in photos. Alma had posted 585 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: two emojis, the rock on emoji and the zipper face. 586 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: Then she stopped responding to Chapelle's text messages. Her lips 587 00:38:49,280 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: were zipped coming out. If Alma wasn't we need to 588 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: find someone who would so. A couple of weeks later, 589 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: we met up with the World Ventures guy named June. 590 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: He's a heavy set guy with a fuzzy beard, about 591 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: forty years old. He's a DJ. He works at a 592 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 1: tire shop and he also has a cigar company. He's 593 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: always talking about it on Facebook. I just want to 594 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: know who's ready for Rooftop Evact. It's gonna be exclusively, 595 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: gonna have a hand roller. He's gonna host the show. 596 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: Tell us what's in the tobacco, what the tobacco was worth, 597 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: how to savor it, how to roll it. June knows 598 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people. I got an ear to the streets. 599 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: I talked to everybody, actually everybody with autmost respects. So 600 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 1: people respect me and they'll help me whatever way you can. 601 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: June wouldn't say too much about his past with gangs, 602 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: but he did say this. In Chicago, if you're not 603 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: you're labeled as one, and majority of time you have 604 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: no choice. It's by where you live or by who 605 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: your family is, and you have no choice but to 606 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 1: be what it is. Jim came with us the first 607 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: time we went around the neighborhood a couple of days 608 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: after Courtney died. So when I found out what had 609 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: happened the first day there was reached out to local gangbangers. 610 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: Um none of them took admitts to it, and they 611 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: won't lie to me, so if something did happen, they 612 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: would tell me the truth. And I found out in 613 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: the past maybe about three other murders, and I found 614 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: out who it was within a week or two weeks 615 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: of it happening, and I've had gang members tell me 616 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: all this guy did it, such or such did it 617 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: because they know the innocent should have never gone touched. 618 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: After asking around, June gotta leave that Courtney's murder might 619 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: have been a case of mistaken identity. He said he'd 620 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: heard the Four Corner Hustlers was beefing with another gang 621 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. They had said there was some Hispanic 622 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: guys running around in that neighborhood. So they had claimed 623 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: as a possibility that maybe they had confused him for 624 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: somebody else. So I had to follow that lead as well. 625 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: It was falsible, m hmm. Before we left, June told 626 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: us a bunch of rumors he heard about Courtney's murder. 627 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: He heard that Courtney was killed while buying weed. He 628 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: heard the police did it, and that's why the camera 629 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: supposedly didn't work by Alma's house. But we needed facts, 630 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: and we needed witnesses, and soon we were going to 631 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: find them. Every Body. The song by every Day No 632 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: by These Noting Somebody is a co production of The 633 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: Invisible Institute, The Intercept Topic Studios, and I Heart Radio 634 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: in association with Tenderfoot TV. I'm chaparral Wells. This podcast 635 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: is produced by Alison Flowers and Bill Heally. Sarah Guice 636 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: is our story editor. Ellen Glover is our associate producer 637 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: for The Invisible Institute. Jamie Calvin is executive producer for 638 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: Topic Studio. Maria Zuckerman, Christie Gressman and Leta Malod are 639 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: executive producers. Special thanks to Lizzie Jacobs for the intercept. 640 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: Roger Hodge, Deputy Editor, is supervising producer. Sound designed by 641 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 1: Carl Scott and Bart Warshaw. Michael Rayphael is our mixed engineer. 642 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 1: Our theme song, Everybody's Something is by Chance The Rapper. 643 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: Original music for the podcast by Nate Fox of The 644 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: Social Experiment and Eric Butler. Additional reporting by Sam Steklow, 645 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: Annie Winkhari Blackburn, Raji Sinclair, Henry Adams, Matilda Voyat, Dana 646 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: Brozo's kellerher Francis McDonald, Diana Archmagian, Maddie Anderson, Andrew Fan 647 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: and risa Apantaku. Translations support by Benny Hernandez Occampo and 648 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: Emma Perez. Fact checking by Noah are Jenny. Special thanks 649 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: to Chris Rasmussen Bennett Epstein, Matt Topic, David Brelow, and 650 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: Julie Wolf. We want to hear from you. Email us 651 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 1: at info at somebody podcast dot com, or leave us 652 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: a voicemail at seven seven three two seven zero zero 653 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: one two one. To learn more about this case and 654 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: for links to additional materials, go to our show page 655 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: at somebody podcast dot com. You can also find a 656 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: list of everyone we want to think there so many 657 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 1: people helped us along the way.