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Speaker 1: when you see the title of this book written by

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Speaker 1: my next guest here, it's called My Father's House, and

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Speaker 1: you see the last name of Kanye, and you're a

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Speaker 1: political sophisticate or junkie like myself, you probably think you

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Speaker 1: already know what kind of book this is. Oh, it

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Speaker 1: must be a political biography, a celebration, a civil rights victory,

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Speaker 1: lab maybe even a defense of some sort. This book

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Speaker 1: is none of these things. This isn't really a book.

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Speaker 1: About John Conyers, the legendary member of Congress from Detroit,

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Speaker 1: even though he was one of the most consequential figures

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Speaker 1: of the modern civil rights era. What this is is

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Speaker 1: a book about what it's like to grow up inside power,

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Speaker 1: to inherit a legacy you didn't choose to live in

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Speaker 1: a house built by history, and to discover that some

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Speaker 1: rooms were never safe to enter and some conversations were

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Speaker 1: never allowed to happen. John Conyers a Third doesn't write

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Speaker 1: as an apologist, and he doesn't write as a provocateur either.

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Speaker 1: He writes as a son trying to understand how a

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Speaker 1: public giant could be both indispensable to a movement and

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Speaker 1: deeply complicated in private. This is a fascinating book, and

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Speaker 1: it's a and John Conyre's the third, the son of

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Speaker 1: the late John Conyers Junior, really opened himself up in here.

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Speaker 1: And John Conyor's the third author of My Father's House,

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Speaker 1: joins me. Now, John, good to see.

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Speaker 2: You, to see you as well, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: It's an honor to be here.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me start with that introduction I gave to

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Speaker 1: your book, because look, I opened it assuming one thing,

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Speaker 1: and after going through it you're like, Okay, I'm you

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Speaker 1: wrote a book that I wish Al Gore had written.

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Speaker 2: You wrote a.

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Speaker 1: Book that I've always wanted to know if Harold Ford Jr.

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Speaker 1: Wanted to write this. I really am fascinated by those

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Speaker 1: who basically were raised in power. Right now, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a choice, right Your career path was destined for you, perhaps,

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Speaker 1: or or at least the path was cleared if you

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Speaker 1: chose to take it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it.

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Speaker 1: You offered an insider account in a way that I'd

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Speaker 1: never seen before. So I'll shut up now and tell me.

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Speaker 1: Tell me whether that intro did capture the book.

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Speaker 2: It captured it well.

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Speaker 3: First, I would say that I would offer and thank

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Speaker 3: you for grasping that nuance. So many of the conversations

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Speaker 3: that I've had about the book to the point you

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Speaker 3: made about assuming or presuming that it would be strictly

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Speaker 3: about my father, the conversations have.

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Speaker 2: Been just that, only about him.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know whether the whether the interview or

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Speaker 3: only read for that. But what's tucked away in the

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Speaker 3: book is like a young person trying to make sense

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Speaker 3: of this world and make sense of this going between

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Speaker 3: two worlds, which I touch on my mother's side of

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Speaker 3: the family still being somewhat in poverty and me being

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Speaker 3: trapped between these two spaces and trying to make sense

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Speaker 3: of it all and find my place.

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Speaker 2: Of it own. But yeah, I mean, I'll start with

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Speaker 2: I never intended to write a book.

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Speaker 1: That was going to be And would you have written

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Speaker 1: this if he were alive?

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Speaker 3: No, I would have it, would have this book would

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Speaker 3: have never been written by me if the things that

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Speaker 3: happened in twenty seventeen don't happen. He we had, we

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Speaker 3: had a book deal on the table with hashit and

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Speaker 3: it was a very considerable book deal, and then literally

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Speaker 3: as we were finalizing and negotiating, all those things happened,

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Speaker 3: and so everything fundamentally changes.

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Speaker 1: Unrell, Yeah, this is when all those allegations get you know,

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Speaker 1: you to lead, not to lead with that, but no,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't intending to do it. But it's funny

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Speaker 1: you bring it up. I have this. I have a

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Speaker 1: small odd story that goes with this, where the day

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Speaker 1: that your father announced that he was resigning, it was

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Speaker 1: a Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: I remember it quite well because I had Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: on Meet the Press. The report had gotten out.

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Speaker 2: She did not know this yet, which.

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Speaker 1: I found, or at least she claimed she didn't. I

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Speaker 1: don't quite know, and it really created quite the weird

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Speaker 1: Put it this way, she never would sit down with

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Speaker 1: an interview with me again over the circumstances of it,

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Speaker 1: because she was upset that she was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: on to talk about one thing. This happened, and of

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Speaker 1: course it's breaking news, and you know, she didn't like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the news business can be inconvenient to politicians.

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Speaker 1: I get it, you know that that sort of but

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was just a it's just

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Speaker 1: one of those. She was always upset that she didn't

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Speaker 1: get to talk about what she wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: in that moment. But boy, since we're there, take me there?

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Speaker 1: Did he feel pressure to resign? I always got the

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Speaker 1: sense he didn't want to resign.

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Speaker 2: I guess she's not running again. I'll be tactful. I'll

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Speaker 2: be tactful. I won't I will the breaking news that

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Speaker 2: you got that you confronted her with.

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Speaker 3: When we talk about the butterfly effect, Yeah, there was

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Speaker 3: a an I allude to it in the book. I

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Speaker 3: don't address it directly because that member of my family,

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Speaker 3: and I have men defenses, so I tried very hard

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Speaker 3: not to do anything that will, you know, harm that

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Speaker 3: relationship or cause another fissure, if you will. But that

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Speaker 3: person was on the outside looking in, and the moment

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Speaker 3: they were they got a little bit of daylight, and

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Speaker 3: we gave them any bit of information they ran and

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Speaker 3: they was someone they went to college with, was a

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Speaker 3: journalist at the New York Times. They tried to get

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Speaker 3: in front of me or my father announcing that I

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Speaker 3: would be running for a seat, which I had not

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Speaker 3: decided yet. I did not know if I wanted to

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Speaker 3: run for office or if I was ready. Part of

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Speaker 3: why I hadn't never run for office to that point

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Speaker 3: was because I knew who I was.

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Speaker 2: I was a former songwriter. My work, my work experience

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Speaker 2: started in the music business, and so there's a there is.

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Speaker 3: A a level of calming down or a mellowing out

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Speaker 3: that I was not fully prepared to do coming from

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Speaker 3: that lifestyle, which I knew was was required to be

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Speaker 3: in public office. And so that person says, yes, my

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Speaker 3: great uncle is retiring and I'm going to run for

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Speaker 3: his seat, which then turns into.

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Speaker 2: My preation that you got yeah, which then she confronted.

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Speaker 3: She was confronted with, but if we are being honest,

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Speaker 3: which I didn't put in the book because for a

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Speaker 3: myriad of reasons.

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Speaker 2: Uh, my father was pressured to retire.

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Speaker 3: Course he was yeah, uh, And I think I think

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Speaker 3: the frustrating thing is to the point of the book,

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Speaker 3: which it was never I shouldn't say it was never

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Speaker 3: supposed to happen, because it ultimately happened. And I believe

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Speaker 3: in all the things what's supposed to happen happens. We

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Speaker 3: talk to my father about retiring ten years prior to this,

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Speaker 3: because he had a series of strokes in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine minus like small ones. And so my uncle,

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Speaker 3: my mother, myself and another gentleman who lives in DC

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Speaker 3: sat down with him and we were like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you should retire.

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Speaker 2: Consider writing a book.

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Speaker 3: My father wouldn't hear it, primarily because I think, when

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Speaker 3: when you think about like a professional athlete, or even

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Speaker 3: someone like yourself or Tony Kornhier, who like my life

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Speaker 3: is wrapped up in this thing that I do, it's.

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Speaker 1: Your identity, you know. I go back, you know, John,

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I remember the first instance

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Speaker 1: of something like this happening for me. In the memory

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Speaker 1: I have is Bear Bryant. Bear Bryan announces he's going

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Speaker 1: to retire. The guy died before the next football season.

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Speaker 1: Joe Paterno resigns. He dies before the start of the

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Speaker 1: next football season. So there had been this. You do

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Speaker 1: hear this, and I buy it. I think when you're older,

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Speaker 1: you're afraid that the minute you don't have that reason

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Speaker 1: to get up in the morning, that it might all end.

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Speaker 1: So I get it. I understand why coaches hang on.

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Speaker 1: I understand why journalists hang on. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: it never gets better. The exit never gets better.

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Speaker 2: This is true, and I.

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Speaker 3: Think I would say that, not not guilt, but I

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Speaker 3: was diagnosed with ADHD and being you know, I'm also

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Speaker 3: on the spectrum diagnosed with that later in life. So

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Speaker 3: there is the neurotypical way of communicating, or my ability

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Speaker 3: to perceive things, or my awareness of my difference in cognition.

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Speaker 2: Coming to terms of that.

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Speaker 3: Are being able to perceive that so that I can

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Speaker 3: act on it and be more try to be more

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Speaker 3: perceptive and more present. Didn't come until one of them

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Speaker 3: came prior to my father's passing. The autism piece came

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Speaker 3: only just a year ago or two a year and

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Speaker 3: a half ago, now, right, And so there are things

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Speaker 3: that I think my father was alive for maybe five

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Speaker 3: years or two years after his retirement, but there was

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Speaker 3: a there was a there was a top piece, a

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Speaker 3: window that I wish that I had more awareness of

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Speaker 3: the kind of mental things that I was grappling with

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Speaker 3: to be able to kind of take that mantle, because

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Speaker 3: there was an attempt to pass it to me, and

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Speaker 3: I wasn't aware. I wasn't ready for it, if in

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Speaker 3: no small part because I couldn't perceive it for what

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Speaker 3: it was in the moment.

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Speaker 1: So talk about the decision to write this book, because

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, like, look, you you chose to make some

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Speaker 1: things public that I'm guessing not every member of your

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Speaker 1: family wanted public.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, but yeah, yes, sure.

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Speaker 3: I think that I wouldn't have been the book that

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Speaker 3: I would feel comfortable with. Uh if I didn't, though,

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Speaker 3: because in order to there's the perception of the person,

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Speaker 3: as you very well know, being a public person, there

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Speaker 3: is the perception of who you are and what your

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Speaker 3: lived experiences and what your life experiences versus what.

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Speaker 2: The reality of it is.

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Speaker 3: So when you hear John Conyers, longest serving Black American

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Speaker 3: congressman in American history, especially within the black community and

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Speaker 3: then especially within Detroit. There the people automatically conflate privilege

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Speaker 3: with wealth and privilege with money, and that is not

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Speaker 3: my lived experience.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, Well that's Washington for you. Right. You should

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Speaker 1: have a conversation with my son, because you know he's

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Speaker 1: he's in college now and and he's starting to get

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Speaker 1: this more and he realizes this. But you know, he

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Speaker 1: was called you know, I grew up you know, pretty

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Speaker 1: working class is probably you know, grew up in apartment

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Speaker 1: buildings and all that stuff. And I had a good life. Okay,

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Speaker 1: my parents tried their best. And when my son got

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Speaker 1: hit for being a NEPO baby, I'm like, what right?

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Speaker 1: And and I'm sure and I and I always felt

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Speaker 1: terrible about that, like he doesn't get to be his

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Speaker 1: own person. And so I wonder, this is clearly what

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Speaker 1: frustrates you is that you feel as if so many

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Speaker 1: people just assume they know who you are, who you

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Speaker 1: should be, just because of what your name is.

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Speaker 3: So I have coined a phrase now or a phrase

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Speaker 3: that I use, and people say, you have a big

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Speaker 3: shoes if I said legacy is not footwear, it's a direction, right,

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Speaker 3: good line, because so many people one the thing we

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Speaker 3: already talk about the perception of who you are. They

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Speaker 3: have this projection onto you of like if they were you,

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Speaker 3: what they would have done and who they would be

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Speaker 3: by now and all these things and then the other

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Speaker 3: pieces of the thing that you're talking about with your

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Speaker 3: with your son.

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Speaker 2: It's like people don't even give give you the time

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Speaker 2: of day.

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Speaker 3: And then it's always the goalpost is always moving, Like

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Speaker 3: you know, even now when I tell people what I've done,

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Speaker 3: there is this there is this doubt or that's not enough,

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Speaker 3: that like, well I've done all these things, well that's

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Speaker 3: not enough, or you only did them because your dad.

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Speaker 2: And it's like no.

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Speaker 1: Matter what you're you get, whatever it is, you get

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Speaker 1: questioned either you should have done more, or well whatever

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Speaker 1: you did, you started on third base.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I think and I'm even sensitive to talk about

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Speaker 3: it now because of how would be perceived.

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Speaker 2: And I think you just you just.

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Speaker 1: Come to there's no good answer. You can't and you

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Speaker 1: know what I would tell you, don't talk about it publicly.

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Speaker 1: It's not fair, Yeah, but not you just can't because

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Speaker 1: there are people who have it goes to my wife's

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Speaker 1: got this saying everybody's problems are problems for them, And

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Speaker 1: just because somebody else's problems wouldn't be problems in your

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Speaker 1: life doesn't mean they're not problems in their life.

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Speaker 2: Correct, And yet we have.

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Speaker 1: A hard time. I can't tell you I'd love your problems, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I probably love your problems.

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Speaker 3: You know, right, But yeah, I think the experience that

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Speaker 3: I've had as John Connors.

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Speaker 2: A third.

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Speaker 3: Part of it is that I feel a tremendous regardless

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Speaker 3: of the negative things that come with it and.

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Speaker 2: The challenges.

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Speaker 3: I think I feel a profound sense of responsibility and

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Speaker 3: duty as primarily as a generational bridge, because my father

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Speaker 3: was so much older when he had me, feel a profound,

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Speaker 3: profound sense of duty and responsibility to make sure that

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Speaker 3: the generation, my generation and those coming behind me understand

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Speaker 3: that the things that they were born with, the rights

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Speaker 3: and opportunities that they were born with, were not always

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Speaker 3: that way, and that we have a we have an

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Speaker 3: obligation to the people that came before us to not

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Speaker 3: only maintain but to further their work and to further

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Speaker 3: the freedoms that we have for young people that we

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Speaker 3: gained for young people.

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Speaker 1: What did you learn about your dad in this product?

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Speaker 1: In the problem striding this book.

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Speaker 2: I learned so much. I mean, primarily, I think.

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Speaker 3: To bring to mention sports and thinking about Cornheiser, there's

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Speaker 3: a there's a there's a gentleman playing basketball right now

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Speaker 3: who's the all time leading scorer that I think is amazing.

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Speaker 2: I do not. I think he's the greatest basketball.

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Speaker 3: Player of all time, primarily because like, if you are

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Speaker 3: that person, the.

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Speaker 2: World will tell you.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to tell us, right, And so I

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Speaker 3: think that to make the analogy, my father was someone

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Speaker 3: who didn't have to tell you how great he was.

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Speaker 3: He would tell me stories, right, And what I learned

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Speaker 3: in this process is that he's exactly who he thought

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Speaker 3: he was, right, Like, when I'm hearing I think it's

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Speaker 3: in the book the LBJ story about getting Air Force one.

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Speaker 2: He told told me this story off the cuff, right.

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Speaker 3: And mind you, I'm an adult now when he's telling

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Speaker 3: me the story and I'm Clinton's call the house at

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Speaker 3: two in the morning, all the things.

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Speaker 2: Have happened, right, So I know that he's important.

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Speaker 1: You've lived this life, you're aware. Yeah, my dad hangs

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Speaker 1: out with presidents.

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Speaker 2: That's what happens.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but this point in time, remember this point in

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Speaker 3: time when he's talking to LBJ, it's still civil rights movement.

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Speaker 3: He's not a senior member of Congress to be able

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Speaker 3: to call the president and say, hey, I need Air

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Speaker 3: Force one. But my dad's first chief of staff campaign

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Speaker 3: manager for his for his first campaign is telling me

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Speaker 3: this story independent of my dad, and I'm like, oh, wait,

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Speaker 3: he's not this This is just like, this is an

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Speaker 3: everyday thing, is just what I do. And to know

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Speaker 3: to be privy to a person that was was able

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Speaker 3: to move through the world like that and also not

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Speaker 3: be boastful about it, to me, it's like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: this this is the model.

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Speaker 2: And to know to learn all these things about him that, like,

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Speaker 2: it was just mind blowing. It's mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: The remarkable thing to me when I think about our

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Speaker 1: politics today and our polarization of today, is we were

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Speaker 1: really polarized in the nineteen fifties and sixties more so

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Speaker 1: arguably than we are today, and yet there was optimism

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Speaker 1: where we struggle to find optimism today. Right, There was

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Speaker 1: also and this is something I think, what did you

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Speaker 1: learn learn about what I would call incrementalism. Like there

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Speaker 1: was always like Okay, let's win this fight and we'll

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Speaker 1: come back and fight another day, when others in the

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Speaker 1: movement would say, let's get it all now. And to me,

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Speaker 1: this is something progressive. Today's progressives are having to relearn

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Speaker 1: a story on how to win a long term political

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Speaker 1: struggle versus and realizing that you're not going to win

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Speaker 1: every short term fight. But how do you make every

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Speaker 1: short term fight an attempt to move the needle long term?

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Speaker 2: Uh So this is something I can think about.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I was just thinking about this other day, the

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Speaker 3: advent of Twitter and how I think that is added

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Speaker 3: to the polarization not just.

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Speaker 2: Of the uh the electorate, but also the elected officials.

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Speaker 3: But I think incrementalism is that's the way of that's

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Speaker 3: everyone's way of life.

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Speaker 2: You don't go to the gym. You don't go to

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Speaker 2: the gym on the first day and walk.

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Speaker 3: Out with washboard abs or able to you don't walk

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Speaker 3: into the gym.

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Speaker 2: When I started, I could only I.

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Speaker 1: Thought, if I inject something in my stomach, now I

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Speaker 1: get it within a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, that's true. True.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we are we are, We're We're still going

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Speaker 1: to sell that dream regardless of whether it's true.

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Speaker 2: Sorry.

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Speaker 3: I think the polarization piece, and this is also part

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Speaker 3: of why I'm getting so engaged in politics. The way

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Speaker 3: I am these days is that I was raised in

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Speaker 3: a time where that wasn't the case. It was becoming

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Speaker 3: that way, right.

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Speaker 2: I remember.

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Speaker 3: I remember riding in a car with my mom. Was

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Speaker 3: now I'm dating my even myself where they still have

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Speaker 3: bench seats in the front in the front front seat.

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Speaker 1: Nothing like sitting in that middle seat right where you

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Speaker 1: had to put the arm rests back up right the armist.

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Speaker 2: Had come down. So I'm sitting in the middle.

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Speaker 3: We're in DC, We're on Constitution AB, I'm looking directly

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Speaker 3: at the Capitol building, and.

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Speaker 2: I see I see my between my mom and my

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Speaker 2: dad listen to MPR.

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Speaker 3: I forget what was on NPR, but it triggered my

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Speaker 3: father to say, it wasn't always like that. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: like this until New Gingers became Speaker of the House,

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Speaker 3: where everything became a zero some game.

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Speaker 2: Where it was my way or the highway.

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Speaker 3: And I say that to say, to fully address your question,

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Speaker 3: I think that the reason why my generation and younger

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Speaker 3: feel that everything has to be won all at once.

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Speaker 3: Is because number one, I think corporate involvement in politics

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Speaker 3: and Democrats largely failing to deliver on promises. Although they

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Speaker 3: do great some great things, they largely to deliver on

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Speaker 3: their promises.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: But then the second thing, to the point I made

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Speaker 3: about always having these rights, They've always had these things,

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Speaker 3: so they don't know that it was one over time

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Speaker 3: because they were born with it. And so I think, again,

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Speaker 3: this is why I feel such a sense of urgency

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Speaker 3: to be involved, because I'm one of like I don't

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Speaker 3: I can't think of another person, but I'm one of

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Speaker 3: the only people that I know of that is the

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Speaker 3: son of a civil rights leader that is also a

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Speaker 3: millennial that got it firsthand.

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Speaker 2: I didn't read about it. It wasn't a story.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't right because you're most of your

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Speaker 1: peers are two generations removed.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I I I've heard about this firsthand one

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Speaker 3: to one. My dad didn't say doctor King said, Martin

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Speaker 3: called him. I called Jesse Jackson, Uncle Jesse. So I'm

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Speaker 3: getting these stories from the actual guys. So to me

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Speaker 3: it feels like, oh, well, this is this is what

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Speaker 3: we're supposed to do it. It happens over time. Whereas again

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Speaker 3: not to labor the point, but my peers they that's all,

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Speaker 3: that's what they know.

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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is being brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Quints. As you know, a well built wardrobe

420
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421
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422
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423
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428
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429
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Speaker 1: have some nice jackets, including you know, lighter jackets as

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Speaker 1: things I hope warm up at some point down here

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Speaker 1: in the mid Atlantic. The list goes on. All of

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Speaker 1: this stuff all the time, right, not just something you

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Speaker 1: pull out once a quarter to look nice at work.

437
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Speaker 1: No stuff that you might wear every week. They only

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Speaker 1: partner with factories that meet some rigor standards for crashmanship

439
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Speaker 1: and ethical product bottom line, I wear it, I'm happy.

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470
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471
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: would you say your relationships with your in your head?

472
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: The relationship with your father?

473
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: Now, I got more questions than I got answered. Now

474
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: after this book, I mean, I would love to uh,

475
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 3: I would love to know more than anything, how how

476
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 3: he had the ability to forge a path and move

477
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 3: forward on issues that were so far ahead of their

478
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: time in the In the it was there's a there's

479
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: a there's a newsletter. You know, they have these things

480
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: where they put something in the congressional record, and my

481
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: dad did it via like a newsletter that he circulated

482
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: to all the members of the House. And he was

483
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 3: talking about the connection between poverty and crime, right, and

484
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: that no, that wasn't a thing. That wasn't a thing

485
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 3: back in the seventies that people often correlated, right, And

486
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: and so I would love to just know and have

487
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 3: and to speak with him about how are you able

488
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 3: to get out in front of these issues so early

489
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: and then maintain the effort and the stamina to continue

490
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: to fight for them, whether that's Medicare for All, whether

491
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: that's reparations, whether that's the MLK holiday, or even you know,

492
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: one of his lesser known piece of legislation, the Humphrey

493
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 3: Hawks Full Employment Bill. These are things that like I

494
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: just I want to know, and sure we could we

495
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: could disteal it down. Well, that's what was right, and

496
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: that's what you do, but like, that's not what everybody does,

497
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: so why did you do it?

498
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: Right?

499
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: So most a lot of so many politicians, we know them,

500
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: we've been in proximity to them.

501
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: They sell out, So why didn't you? That's what I

502
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: would like to know.

503
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: My dad died when I was sixteen, and the list

504
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: of questions I have for him. I'm fifty three now,

505
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: like kids just like you know, and you know, I'm

506
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: now flying blind for the first time, meaning my son

507
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: is now older than I was, So suddenly I have

508
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: a I have a relationship with him that I can't emulate,

509
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: meaning I can't look back on how did my father night?

510
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: You know?

511
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: And we were fine up until and it's always been

512
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: in the amount of questions. And it's that's why I

513
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: asked that question when I asked about what's your relationship

514
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: with him?

515
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: Grateful?

516
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: It is like I'm still you know, I miss him.

517
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: That's my relationship with him. I miss them, you know.

518
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 3: So I would add I would say that I and

519
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: what you said about you and your son triggered this

520
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: in my mind, is that I would say that I'm grateful.

521
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: I think that I had having an.

522
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: Older father was truly a blessing because I had him.

523
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 3: He was young enough, like sixty one is not young,

524
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 3: but he was young enough to. He was young enough

525
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: to by the time I turned you know, five and six,

526
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: he was still able to throw a ball, throw football

527
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 3: with me. I played baseball with him.

528
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: You have those memories, Yeah, but.

529
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 3: My younger brother doesn't have that because my to old

530
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: by that time. All right, brother, there's five years or anything.

531
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: Me right. I would say that above all.

532
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: Things he taught me through what he emulated is that

533
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: it's okay to admit it wrong, it's okay to forgive

534
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: people like you, and so you don't.

535
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: Have to be I think in life you get a

536
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: lot of wisdom. The older you get no matter what,

537
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: so you got you know, the upside of having an

538
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: older father said he lived more life.

539
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

540
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the advice is passing down. Hey, he's he's

541
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: been around the block, not just once or twice, you know, right,

542
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: But it's sort of like, look, just trust me. Yeah right,

543
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: We're all this way with our kids when they go

544
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: off to college. You know, the longer they go to college,

545
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: the more they're the more they discover how right their

546
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: parents were right. And it's but it you know, you

547
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: have to make experience these things yourself many times, but

548
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: you really did have a luxury and an older father

549
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: in that sense.

550
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think the just the lessons that the

551
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: lessons that he taught me stick with me.

552
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: And it's also kind of I'm grateful also to the

553
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: group of friends that I had that I have, because

554
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: sometimes I would feel displaced because there's a level of

555
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: emotional maturity you get by being raised by an older

556
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: person that I.

557
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Feel like you were always treated more like an adult,

558
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: get a bit more adult settings.

559
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: I always had yees, so I was correct.

560
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: So I think that like when I once I found

561
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: finally found my footing, especially in college, and I was

562
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 3: like I would say that I was a social butterfly

563
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: for sure, but finding a group that truly fit everything,

564
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: I didn't have to explain myself or I didn't have

565
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: to say less to fit in that was that was amazing.

566
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: And it was because of the things that I learned

567
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: from him to be able to find the intellectually intellectual

568
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: friendships that match where I was.

569
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: What kind of politician do you want people to see

570
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: you as? And do you do you want folks to

571
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: compare you to your father.

572
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: So I was a philosophy major in college and Macchiavelli

573
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: talks about not following in the footsteps of a great man.

574
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Not to contradict my earliest statement.

575
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 3: But I think I don't know that I would compare

576
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: me to my father because we're operating and two extremely

577
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: different times, although a lot of the similar issues.

578
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: Directly, I know, sometimes we're so far away from the

579
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: movement it feels very familiar.

580
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: It's directionally the same, right, But I think that the

581
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: mechanism by which we organize.

582
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: And we bring people together maybe a little different.

583
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: But we are arguing about who's an American and what's America?

584
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: You know, what, how are we? You know?

585
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: Con I would say in that in that regard, then

586
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: you're sure you could compare me to my father, And

587
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: in so far as I would like for all of

588
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: Americans to understand, uh and beyond and have an honest

589
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: conversation about who and what built this country, right, I

590
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: think that, like it's a controversial thing on Instagram right

591
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: now about the artistship who You're saying that immigrants built

592
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: this country and that's just not true.

593
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: Black American slaves built this country.

594
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: Now immigrants have contributed largely immeasurably to the fabric of

595
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: this nation. We can't whether it's the Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, right,

596
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: we can't. We cannot you know, African American African immigrants.

597
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: We can't deny that. But the foundations, the foundational building

598
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: out of this country. This country would not have had

599
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: the economic advantage it has had without that of slavery.

600
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: And so I would say that there are ways in

601
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: which you can compare me to my father, but I

602
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: would prefer folks not to although I know that that

603
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: is inevitable. The type of politician I want to be,

604
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: I don't know this last thing I'll say. I don't

605
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: mean to be long winded. The type of politician I

606
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: want to be.

607
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: We're doing a podcast, brother is why is.

608
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: One that brings people together? What I learned from my

609
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: father's we build coalitions. We bring a large group of

610
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: people who have shared interests, similar interest right, we start

611
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: with where we where where we agree. We don't focus

612
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: on where we disagreement, because where we find agreement is.

613
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: How we build power collectively.

614
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: And once we find that we can work together on

615
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: the things we agree about, then we can come together

616
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: and hash out strategically how we work through our disagreements.

617
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: And that's the type of politician I want to be.

618
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: I think that's what's missing from our government across all

619
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: levels around the country.

620
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: One more personal question then I want to talk to

621
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: little politics of Michigan Detroit, be more forward looking, talk

622
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: about more and that is are you glad you share

623
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: your father's name or do you wish you didn't?

624
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so glad I share my father.

625
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 1: Because I think it's like I just think this is

626
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: I've always wondered. You know, it's both a It's both

627
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: great and a burden at the same time.

628
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: I got all no listen any.

629
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 3: Whether you're whatever, your privileges are right, I know, Ny,

630
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 3: you have a responsibility to utilize them. I think this

631
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: is my personal feeling like you have a responsibility to

632
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: leverage them and utilize them for good. If my name

633
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: were Michael Conyers, the doors that have opened for me

634
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: would not be the same full sun. I would not

635
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: have been able to introduce or help the folks that

636
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: I've been able to help an aid and support. If

637
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: I don't think and maybe it would be different, my

638
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 3: life will look fundamentally different.

639
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: But if my name is we're Michael Conyers, but.

640
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: As John Conyers, that they're when people automatically say, wait

641
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: with John conyer's your father or your grandfather. The ability

642
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: to make connections, the ability to introduce folks and help people.

643
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: So you see it all as asset.

644
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: It's an asset whatever, whatever the downside is, I'm okay

645
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: with it because the upside I can't, I literally cannot

646
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: quantify it.

647
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: So I'm a good with it and God will fourth.

648
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's what I just have always that I've

649
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: always wondered, is there a like, you know, at this

650
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: convert like I said, al Gore bearing his name with

651
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: his right he was al Gord junior, right, and there

652
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: was an expectation mlka the third right, And I've always

653
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, is is it a it's both a privilege

654
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: and a burden role wrapped up in won perhaps right,

655
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: depending on who you're dealing with. And that's what I've Yeah, well,

656
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: there's no reason you ever had a conversation with any

657
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: of the other namesakes.

658
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: Uh No, I'm not one that was substantive or substantial

659
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: about like that issue.

660
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, not about that issue. No, I don't. I don't

661
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: know that.

662
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: I also, oh, you know what, I've talked to Harroll

663
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: Ford Junior about it, and I've talked to Dennis Archer Junior,

664
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: Dennis Archer Jr. Speaking of local politics, the former mayor.

665
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: I've talked to him about it, and we both see

666
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: it as a positive. I think that he's I mean not.

667
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 3: I think he has focused strictly on solely on business right,

668
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: and he's you know, he's commended me on me on

669
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: stepping into the political scene as a political operative with

670
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: my name being what it is.

671
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Detroit. You called Detroit, you position

672
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: an unfinished business.

673
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: Tell me, you know, I've lived a bunch of I've

674
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: lived in five different places.

675
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 3: I've lived in DC, I've lived in Atlanta, I've lived

676
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: in obviously Michigan, in New York as well as Los Angeles, California.

677
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: But Michigan, I think is at an inflection point. Detroit specifically,

678
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 3: we have new leadership in our city. We are going

679
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: to have new leadership in the Governor's mansion, and right

680
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: now it is critical for folks that have stayed in

681
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 3: Michigan and Detroit, Southeastern Michigan specifically, who have a wealth

682
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: of resources some of which have already kind of been.

683
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 2: Taken over to some extent.

684
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: Is important that we have people that are going to

685
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: fight on behalf of those folks and make sure they

686
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: have a place in a city that they've helped propped

687
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: up when folks did not want to be here or

688
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: didn't see it as a wise investment.

689
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: And I think that's the unfinished business.

690
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I saw it comparative of Detroit

691
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: and Saint Louis and how Detroit's turning a corner and

692
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: Saint Louis is stuck, and it's it's that's good news, right,

693
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, fifteen years ago, it was we

694
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: were still in the what's it going to take to

695
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: turn Detroit around? What's it going to take to turn

696
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: de Trade around? Do you credit dug In with this?

697
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? I can't. You can't discredit Dugion at all.

698
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: Now. The fact of the matter, some of the framework,

699
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: and no one likes to talk about this, and I

700
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: don't mean to put him in this conversation, but some

701
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: of the framework that Dugan was able to work off

702
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: of was laid by Kwame Kokatrick. Some of the money,

703
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: some of the money that was used a federal funding

704
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: that was used was from you know, stuff that his

705
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 3: mother was able to bring back. But overall, I mean

706
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 3: the jumping off point and the right it's one thing

707
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: to get in the door, it's another thing to stay there. Right,

708
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: So you cannot you cannot discredit dug In for the

709
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: longevity and the long term success that he's had and

710
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: steering the direction of the city of Detroit, which has

711
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 3: it's the growth has been tremendous.

712
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: What's been you know, watching it sort of Detroit sort

713
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: of turn around? Is it one thing or is it

714
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: just a reminder It sometimes just takes a series of

715
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: little things in time. Well, what would you say the

716
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: recipe turned out to be?

717
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 3: So my father as a saying again, address it in

718
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 3: the book, little by little, day by day, Right, it's

719
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 3: how you achieved success, and everything's connected. I would say

720
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: that in the case of Detroit, we didn't have any

721
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: other from accept patients, right, it wasn't going to happen

722
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 3: over now, primarily because folks weren't interested in investing here.

723
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: So it took someone like a Dan Gilbert, someone you know,

724
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: a family like the Illages making consider considerable investment, a

725
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: strategic investment.

726
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: And you know folks being patient with the mayor.

727
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: The mayor again, Mike Duggan is a junior, So Mike

728
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 3: Duggan leveraging his name and his relationships of his father

729
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 3: to be able to attract people and businesses to come

730
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: do business here.

731
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: So we didn't have a choice.

732
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: And I think we're still as someone who's lived in

733
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 3: a number of major cities, we still have a ways

734
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: to go.

735
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 2: And I think we can.

736
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 3: We can get to the place to get back to

737
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 3: the top of you know, American cities, but we have

738
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: a long way to go, and the work, the foundation

739
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: has been laid and the work continues.

740
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: You know, you brought up a couple of them. You

741
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: noted Dan Gilbert in the Illages, and it is every

742
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: community turnaround story is usually you know, a piece of

743
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: it is basically the local rich people finally decided to invest.

744
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: And I say this no disrespect, you know whatever. The

745
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: people that had you know, made their money in that

746
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: city or made their money in businesses in that city,

747
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: and the cities that are struggling usually don't have people

748
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: willing to invest. You know, what does it take to

749
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: get to get folks like the Dan Gilberts and the

750
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: Illages to invest. What why did they do it? And

751
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: what is it scalable? You know, is there lessons here

752
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: for those in Saint Louis that want to see want

753
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: to try to create a Detroit like story.

754
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think with Dan and in the Illage family,

755
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: they're they're from here, right, Dan's Damn, Dan's from here.

756
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: He's so that matters. Yeah, I think I think that matters.

757
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 3: I think it also takes vision. Coming to the earlier conversation,

758
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: I think some folks don't have a vision beyond the

759
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: money they make. They have a vision to be wealthy

760
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: and outside of that, like, that's not their problem.

761
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: Everything else is not their problem.

762
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 3: And I think I don't think I can speak to

763
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 3: Dan specifically and his vision for Bedrock and his vision

764
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 3: for the city of Detroit.

765
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: He believes in it.

766
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: He believes in what it can be in the same

767
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: way that I've always believed in what it can be

768
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: when when I went to school at Morehouse, I was

769
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 3: always perplexed not by its success, but more so why

770
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 3: this little city or this big city in.

771
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: This landlocked city.

772
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: On top of that, right has all of these resources,

773
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: but Detroit is an international city and we don't.

774
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 2: We're not able to maximize and leverage it now.

775
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 3: Of course, as I've grown and I've matured, I understand

776
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: the machanitions of why it is and and the forces,

777
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: the outward forces, external forces working against its success. But

778
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 3: I do I think you have to have a vision

779
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 3: for what a thing can be, what a place can be,

780
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: before you make that investment. And there are a lot

781
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: of places I think that don't have wealthy people that

782
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 3: have a vision for what a place can be.

783
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: And or even want to be a part of that.

784
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's interesting. I Detroit was Silicon Valley

785
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: before Silicon Valley. I was like to tell people that

786
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: Detroit in the forties and fifties and sixties was a

787
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: magnet for young people who wanted to be in the

788
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: auto industry or wanted to be in the cutting edge

789
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: of technology. All the cool stuff was happening in Detroit.

790
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: And then for a variety of reasons, everything atrophied, and

791
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: that in the auto business, and you know, we all

792
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: know the story. Suddenly the American carmakers were no longer king,

793
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: and you know, there's a there's a lot of ways

794
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: that this went down. But I look at it, and

795
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: I think, boy is ere a. What are the red

796
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: flags that happened with the auto industry in Detroit that

797
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: could happen to San Francisco, in Silicon Valley in California

798
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: if they're not careful, I.

799
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: Can I mean, I think it's the American story which

800
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 3: we're seeing with the current administration, and that is and

801
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: it's I wouldn't say it's human story. I think it

802
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 3: is uniquely American and that we we don't have to

803
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 3: be proactive because of our because of our power and

804
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: our enormous wealth, we don't have to be proactive.

805
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: We can be we have we can afford to be reactive.

806
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: We can buy our way in if we miss out

807
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: on a technological.

808
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 3: And and that's not and that is not the you're

809
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 3: seeing it with the big three automakers.

810
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: That's not the case, right.

811
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: You're seeing that like China is eating our lunch with

812
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 3: not only the AI race, the I just.

813
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: Saw Ford may do a deal with China's largest TV maker.

814
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, and so that coming and I talk.

815
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 3: About and I talk about this part of what part

816
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 3: of what I discussed politically is I think climate change

817
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: is real. I don't know what anyone of those things.

818
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: I believe the climate change is real because I've never

819
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 3: This is the first real winter we're having a Michigan and.

820
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: God knows how long I say that.

821
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: I say that to say that when the car became

822
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: what it became, and the infrastructure was built, The infrastructure

823
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: was built because the United States government subsidized largely the

824
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: building of roads. If the infrastructure to make roads, I

825
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 3: mean to make all the automobile.

826
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: We don't sell as many cars if the country doesn't

827
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: build highways.

828
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: Right subsequently, if we were, if we're going to create

829
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: tax incentives, what good is the tax incentive if we're

830
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 3: not subsidizing people to be able to the infrastructure to

831
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 3: or you should get a tax credit on putting an

832
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: EV charger in your home, should get a subsidizing for

833
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 3: converting your gas station to an EV gas station, all

834
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 3: those things. What good is that tax credit to buy

835
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 3: the car if there's no incentive for any industry to

836
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 3: convert to that.

837
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,799
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886
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890
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891
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: themselves may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance

892
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: is something you should really think about, especially if you've

893
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: got a growing family. What today's capitalists don't realize is

894
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: that this is the federal government worked hand in hand

895
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: with industry, whether it was to build railroad tracks in

896
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century, or the freeway or the interstate

897
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: highway system. I know what I thought. This was the

898
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: great failure of the Biden Infrastructure Bill. All it did

899
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: was shovel cash out the door. It didn't take the

900
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: EV stations. It appropriated all this money to build EV

901
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: essentially powering stations, but it was waiting for some private

902
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: entity to take the tax credit and do it rather

903
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: than just going in doing it and building the infrastructure

904
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: it is. You know, This is I think explains why

905
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: there's this whole movement in the Democratic Party of Hey,

906
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: maybe the Democrats that learn how to build stuff again.

907
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: I mean, we abandoned West Virginia. But that's a whole

908
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 3: other conversation for another time. But I mean I agree

909
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: with you, and I just think that now I don't

910
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: agree with the government subsidizing corporations are propping them up, right,

911
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 3: No one should be too big to fail. But when

912
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 3: you talk about national security, the interest of America still

913
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 3: being a world leader in all things, then I listen.

914
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: Do I want BP to or Exonic Petroleum to have

915
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 3: a competitive advantage, Not particularly, But if it means that

916
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 3: they're going to drill less oil and prioritize investing in evy,

917
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: in solar technology and energy efficient technology.

918
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: Then we got to subsidize them, guys. We can, we can,

919
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: we can, We can.

920
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 3: Subsidize them and then bring them in front of the

921
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 3: Senate and UH regulation committees and banking committees to break

922
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: up the anti trust piece later, but first, let's just

923
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: get let's get the thing done right and.

924
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: So looking like a pragmatist. There's not enough of pragmatism

925
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: in American politics today.

926
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 3: I listen I as a guy who used to work

927
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: in finance, and you gotta hit singles and doubles. Everything

928
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: can't be a home run, incremental into steps.

929
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: Let me wrap up the political side a minute. So

930
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: are you running for something this year or not?

931
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: I am.

932
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 3: I'm running for a state Senate in Michigan's third district.

933
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 3: It's an open seat, got it? State Legislator Stephanie Chang Center.

934
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 3: Stephanie Chang is formerly there. Part of why I'm running,

935
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 3: I think, well, I shouldn't say part of why this is.

936
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 3: This is is added.

937
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 2: To why I'm running. As I was a I was

938
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: at one.

939
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: Of her community meetings and there was an issue of

940
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: corruption in a particular city that's within her district, and

941
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: she said that she doesn't have the power to do

942
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 3: anything about her what was happening.

943
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: And to me, this is my issue with.

944
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: Politics in general currently, is that not enough people understand

945
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 3: the totality and full weight of the role in what

946
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 3: they can or cannot do.

947
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: Like the federal government.

948
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 3: Someone that's on the judiciary committee in the state legislature

949
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 3: has they has a subpoena power to investigate.

950
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 2: And it's not just about the bully pulpit. My challenge

951
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: in my issue.

952
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: With politics today is that everyone, everyone wants to be

953
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: an activist as a politician. Politicians politics and legislating passing

954
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 3: laws is not about activism.

955
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: It's not about it.

956
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 3: You can be it, you can have you may have

957
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 3: been an activist, but this is this is why diplomacy matters.

958
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: This is why I was like this, like wisdom from

959
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: your father.

960
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, right, coming to DC and hearing you know,

961
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 3: Bob Goodlot or even someone like a Jim Jordan stop

962
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 3: me and the elevator with my father's there and say hey,

963
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, or Jim Sinson Brenner name a name

964
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 3: that people haven't heard in a while, having them stop

965
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 3: me and my father and say, hey, I don't always

966
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: agree with your dad, but I need you to know.

967
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: I want to let you know your dad's a great man.

968
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: Whenever, whenever the Democrats are in the majority, we don't agree,

969
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 3: but he lets me say my piece and we're respectful

970
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: to one another and vice versa. So I make sure

971
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: that when we were in the majority, I may not

972
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 3: do it for everyone, but your father, for sure, he's

973
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 3: someone that I want to hear out because I know

974
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 3: is coming from an earnest place.

975
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 2: That's what we need back in politics.

976
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 3: But every every every and everyone says that, but their

977
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: behavior is not indicative of that wanting them, you know.

978
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: I mean the rewards. You know, this goes to the

979
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: whole political theatrics. And you know my biggest concern with Congress.

980
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: And I'm curious. You could have jumped into a congressional

981
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: seat and you chose not to. You chose the state House.

982
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 3: Why oh, because there's no Congressation in the place to

983
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 3: make the fix right now. I would have run if

984
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: I thought it was a place to make the fix.

985
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 3: But so, for example, one of the things that I

986
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 3: am keenly focused on is that Michigan the university, and

987
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 3: I'm a policy walk. I get it honest for my dad,

988
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 3: reading and reading about what's going on, and I'll be brief.

989
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: The University of Michigan put out a white paper on

990
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 3: the economic growth outlook for twenty twenty seven for the

991
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: state of Michigan, and they also put out one for

992
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 3: the City of Detroit. Because of the retirement of boomers,

993
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: we're going to loud the last few years of boomers.

994
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: We're going to lose folks in the workforce, so we're

995
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: going to have the tax revenue is going to decline

996
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 3: on down the line from a state standpoint, from a

997
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: state from the state's ability or a standpoint of what

998
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 3: our state can do with the Department of Education, declassifying

999
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 3: because we need to attract talent. Declassifying architecture, occupation with therapy,

1000
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 3: nursing as professional degrees one thing that we can do

1001
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 3: to attract and retain talent, because that's the one of

1002
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 3: the challenges that our current governor was able never able

1003
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 3: to overcome. Instead of issuing bonds that fixed roads and

1004
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: build bridges and fixed infrastructure, let's issue bonds to offset

1005
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 3: that twenty nine five hundred dollars at all, we know

1006
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 3: students are going to lose and attract talent. Right, you

1007
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: can't do that on the federal level. I can do

1008
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: that on the state level. I can work with because

1009
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: that's an issue that is an issue that both Republicans

1010
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: and Democrats on the state level can get on board

1011
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 3: with to attract and retain talent.

1012
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: And it's not an expenditure.

1013
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: We're not spending, We're not we're gonna gain tax revenue.

1014
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: I remember an.

1015
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: Early interview I did with Dugan back when he was

1016
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: mayor and him going, I need people to move to Detroit,

1017
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: and it sounds like what you're saying. With the support,

1018
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: you're gonna have boomers retiring. And there's basically there is

1019
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: not a population gain. And I know that. You know,

1020
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: Detroit raised its hand first for refugees, right, raised itsai first,

1021
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: because these northern cities are just losing a lot of

1022
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people to the south.

1023
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 2: We know this. Yeah, so and so to what I

1024
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: just said.

1025
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 3: That is why I look at the state level as

1026
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: the best place to make an impact. I think that again,

1027
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 3: legacy is in't footwear is direction. My father worked on

1028
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 3: the federal level, great as he may be, he never

1029
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 3: did anything on the state level. And so I can

1030
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 3: make an impact and chart a unique course on the

1031
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 3: state level. That's not to say I'll never make it

1032
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 3: to the federal level or never look that way, but

1033
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 3: I think right now to make an outsize impact and

1034
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: to really leave an imprint on how this state grows.

1035
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 3: I think the best place to do it is, you know,

1036
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: in Lansing.

1037
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: This is about us. I tell anybody, I said, if

1038
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: you're running a political you're putting a national news organization,

1039
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 1: and you want to cover campaign twenty twenty six, I'd

1040
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: send a full time person to the state of Michigan.

1041
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: Between that Democratic Senate primary the three way governor's race.

1042
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: That sort of all the national issues are right there

1043
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan.

1044
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: You don't.

1045
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: You can cover every issue under the sun. Democratic in fighting,

1046
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: Republican in fighting, swing, voter polarization, it's all here.

1047
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: I thought it was bad on our side of the aisle,

1048
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 3: but listen, I've been hearing from folks. The Republicans in

1049
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: the state of Michigan are a disarray. Yeah, and completely

1050
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 3: other disarray.

1051
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: So look, obviously you're running as a Democrat, right, so

1052
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: the governor's race, I mean, is doug and a spoiler.

1053
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 2: For the Democrats.

1054
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: Listen, folks, don't I don't know. You may know, but

1055
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 3: most people don't know. Like it's alluring and he can

1056
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 3: raise the money, I'm sure, but we have straight ticket voting.

1057
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 2: There's the reason why he's able to go.

1058
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with him. This is a huge issue.

1059
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: I think I don't.

1060
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: I will say at box, I will say the one

1061
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 3: if there's one person that can do it, based on

1062
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: what he did in twenty twenty eleven or is it

1063
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, right, the one person that.

1064
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: Can do Yeah, you want to write it, yeah, I

1065
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: much respect.

1066
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's one person that can get folks to

1067
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 3: change their voting habits.

1068
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 2: The last person I'm going to.

1069
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 3: Doubt is Michael Duggant Junior as the last person I'm

1070
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: going to die. But I think that I know that

1071
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 3: my mom votes straight ticket. I don't vote straight ticket

1072
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 3: in the general never, I never have, but in the

1073
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 3: primary because that is what the habit is. I am

1074
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 3: curious to see what happens in this primary and whether

1075
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 3: you can get people to change their voting habits.

1076
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: I look at this race, and look, you know, without

1077
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: getting into positions, these are three very qualified people on paper.

1078
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: Whatever you think of them.

1079
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: Do you agree with that, who's the who's the republic

1080
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 2: who's the Republican?

1081
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: Your well, I mean I say that. Look what I

1082
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: say is he's got the resume that fits John James,

1083
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: meaning like like the average voter would say, oh, okay,

1084
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: he served in Congress, she served as secretary State, he

1085
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: served as mayor. You would say, sure, that's what I mean.

1086
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: So let me then let me get specific. Do you

1087
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: think you could work with John James's governor?

1088
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean our families, Our families go way back,

1089
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: and so John and I have a relationship. Yeah, I

1090
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 3: have no I have no doubt that I could work

1091
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 3: with John or anyone else, you know, as as a

1092
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 3: state legislator.

1093
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: But I assume you, I assume you support Benson as

1094
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: a as a Democrat, or should I not make an assumption?

1095
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 3: You know, I support I support Jocelyn Johnson. Jocelyn and

1096
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 3: I have had conversations. I support her. I think I

1097
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 3: think she could do a great job.

1098
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you you know all three of

1099
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: these candidates pretty well.

1100
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 2: I have thought. I have thoughts about Mike choosing to

1101
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,479
Speaker 2: run independent, although I understand it, I.

1102
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: Also you wish he were running as a Democrat.

1103
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 3: Okay, primarily because like historically independent spoiler for Democrats, not

1104
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 3: the other way around, right right, And so I just think.

1105
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: Well, especially where his base is. I mean, you see

1106
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: the numbers. It's just you know, I know what he

1107
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: says on the trail. Oh, I'm getting you know, equal

1108
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: from both sides. You're like, every vote you get out

1109
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: of Detroit is a too vote gain for the Republicans.

1110
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's it's concerning, but we'll see what happens.

1111
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: I think again, this is why my policies. You know,

1112
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 3: my father's legacy as a politician, one of the things

1113
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: that he never got to cover, and he's not thought

1114
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 3: of for this, although it was very much a part

1115
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 3: of his mission was economic justice.

1116
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: My issues and my concerns are related to economic justice.

1117
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 3: And so if I, as a Democrat who has a

1118
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 3: primary focus on the ability of economic freedom and mobility

1119
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 3: to create opportunities for black folks, other peoples of color,

1120
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 3: and poor disenfranchised folks, if I can work, I know

1121
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 3: that those things are things that Republicans care about, and

1122
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 3: so that I know that I'll be able to talk

1123
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 3: to them and communicate to them about things of that nature.

1124
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 3: So I'm not I'm not worried about a Republican being

1125
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: in the governor's mansion. I'm more concerned about Republicans taking

1126
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: over the state House or maintaining their lead in the

1127
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 3: state House, and they're maintaining their lead in the in

1128
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 3: the state Senate.

1129
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: You have a strong opinion about the Democratic Senate primary,

1130
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: the US Center primary, or is this since you're running

1131
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: your own primary, you're staying out of it.

1132
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1133
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 3: I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think, yeah,

1134
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't have a strong opinion about it.

1135
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 3: May the best person win, I think that I will.

1136
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: I will tell you this.

1137
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 3: Mallary mc morrow is someone I consider a friend. Although

1138
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 3: I've talked to her about this since it came out.

1139
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 3: She gets the Medicare for All issue wrong. But other

1140
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 3: than that, I think, you know.

1141
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: She get wrong about it.

1142
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: So she she says that Medicare for All isn't a

1143
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 3: single payer insurance thing, and it absolutely is, and she

1144
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 3: and so that that's it. I just want to clarify

1145
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,919
Speaker 3: that with her because obviously, you know, having a front

1146
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 3: row seat to the Medicare for All and being introduced,

1147
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 3: I understand understand what it's about. And I just you know,

1148
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 3: she and I had a conversation and I talk with

1149
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: the chief of staff or campaign manager about what it

1150
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 3: is and so yeah, that's that's really it. But I

1151
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 3: mean Mallory, Mallory has been a champion for the issues

1152
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 3: for a very long time.

1153
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: She she strikes me as literally goldilocks here, right. It's

1154
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: like some people are going to think once to establishment,

1155
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna think once too progressive. Here she is sitting

1156
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: somewhere in between those two. So I don't know whether

1157
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: that's good or bad in this case. This is what

1158
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: we're the electorate. It's going to tell us.

1159
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 3: I think I think the correct the elector is going

1160
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 3: to tell us, and I think it's going to it's

1161
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 3: going to come down to people make a decisions based

1162
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 3: on that is one two establishment is one two progressive.

1163
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. I mean, Mallard is a great person.

1164
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of here. On your previous

1165
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: life the music business. How much is AI going to

1166
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: change the music business and is it going to be

1167
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: even recognizable when it's all done.

1168
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know that.

1169
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 3: AI can capture the human condition or the human experience.

1170
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 2: I would expect to hear you say that.

1171
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: I always say I have faith in our species that

1172
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: we're not going to allow ourselves to be replace whatever

1173
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: that means, you know.

1174
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 3: But I think it takes Here's the thing you you

1175
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: asked me a question or you made a savement earlier

1176
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 3: about incrementalism. Part of incrementalism and part of it of

1177
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 3: folks engaging with that is understanding that part of life

1178
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 3: is doing I realized to curse on here. No, you

1179
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 3: don't curse, go for it. I you know it's it's

1180
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 3: doing the fucking work right, being actually invested in the processes.

1181
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: There are processes that are in place within this country

1182
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 3: that like you can't get around. I understand that they're frustrating,

1183
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: and I'm not saying that they shouldn't be different, but

1184
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 3: if you want them to be different, you have to participate.

1185
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 3: And so what I would say is to answer your

1186
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 3: question more fully, more holistically, is that, whether it's AI

1187
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: or whether it's politics, if you don't want things to

1188
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 3: be the way they are, then you have to participate

1189
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 3: and fight for the thing until it is the way

1190
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 3: you would like it to be. I don't think that

1191
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 3: AI can capture the anguish of what it's like to

1192
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: answer the phone and find out one of your best

1193
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 3: friends has died by suicide. I don't think AI can

1194
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 3: capture the anguish of being the eldest son of John

1195
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 3: Conyers and going to discover his body and having to

1196
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 3: call his wife and his brother and his son.

1197
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 2: Right. I don't think AI can capture that.

1198
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 3: I may AI may be able to, may be able

1199
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 3: to write a love song that is nice and catchy,

1200
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: but I don't think it can capture the inner workings

1201
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 3: of what you feel, the complexity of what you feel,

1202
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: the anguish of loving someone and wanting to be with

1203
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 3: someone but knowing that this is not the right person

1204
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: for you.

1205
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it can be the metaphor you're making

1206
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: me think of it sort of like you can buy

1207
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: a frozen dinner and you'll leave. Yeah, But boy, when

1208
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: mom or dad makes a home cooked meal, there's something

1209
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: about it that's a hell of a lot better. You

1210
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: know whatever. That the extra ingredient is humanity, right, you know,

1211
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: the species can How hard is it to make a

1212
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: living as a middle class musician these days? Harder than ever?

1213
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 3: Well I'm not in it anymore, but I can tell

1214
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 3: you when I wasn't, it was very difficult.

1215
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: It's difficult to get into sessions.

1216
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: Because all people see are the stars, right, And you know,

1217
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: there's I just saw this movie about song Sung Blue.

1218
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: It's about Neil Diamond, but it's not about Neil Diamond, right,

1219
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: It's about people that populate every city in America, which

1220
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: is these people that will sing at bars, that do

1221
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,439
Speaker 1: live music that you know, it's a full time job

1222
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: for them, but they're not making millions. That's why I

1223
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: land the bills, you know.

1224
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 2: That's that's why I left.

1225
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 3: That's actually why my dad left the music business is because,

1226
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 3: like he quickly realized, I did not. I wish I

1227
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 3: realized it as quickly as him, but he quickly realized

1228
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 3: what it would take to just get by. And I

1229
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 3: don't not thrive, but just to get by. And I

1230
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 3: think not enough people. It's a very tough life. And

1231
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 3: it's and it's one of those things where people try

1232
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 3: to take advantage of you for what you don't know,

1233
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 3: even though you're contributing and making them millions.

1234
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 2: It's a tough life. I wish more people respected it.

1235
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 3: The again, the emotions and the pain that come with

1236
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 3: being a songwriter to be able to give you a hit.

1237
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: Do you feel like Detroit can be this hub of

1238
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: the music industry again.

1239
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.

1240
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 3: I don't know that it can be that because the

1241
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 3: infrastructure is not here. I think what Detroit can be

1242
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 3: is is the hub of something new Detroit. And I

1243
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 3: tell people this, Detroit is not an importer of culture.

1244
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 3: We have never imported culture. We export.

1245
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh, you've created culture.

1246
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 2: Detroit creates culture.

1247
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 3: And so I think, whatever whatever the next thing is

1248
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 3: going to be, it'll it'll come from Detroit.

1249
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: And you know, we shall see with that, with that ultimately.

1250
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: Become well, when the Pistons are in the NBA Finals,

1251
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get some new bad boys.

1252
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 2: We're first in the East.

1253
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: I have to say, I think it's a year too soon.

1254
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: But hey, you know, I.

1255
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: No, Y honest, no, y honest. And I love Giannis,

1256
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 2: I think, but.

1257
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: Too distracting, huh. I think are building something.

1258
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 3: He fundamentally changes the way the what we do. Yeah,

1259
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 3: I don't know that, Yiannis does. I come from the

1260
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 3: era of the boy. I watched the Bulls, I watched

1261
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 3: the Lakers, both both Kobe iterations.

1262
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: I don't like personally.

1263
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 3: I can appreciate greatness, but I don't like players that

1264
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: don't do one thing well. Giannas doesn't do one thing well.

1265
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 3: Joannis requires you play a certain type of play a

1266
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 3: certain type of game. Right if the game slows down,

1267
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 3: If the game slows down, what can I rely on

1268
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 3: Giannis to do? I don't, I don't. I don't like that.

1269
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to shooting free throws and you

1270
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 1: probably don't want him shooting threes.

1271
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 2: He can, he can.

1272
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 3: He doesn't have it back to the basket game though,

1273
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 3: really right, so like, what is you gonna do?

1274
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 2: So I personally don't want him on my team, although

1275
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 2: I hope that he lands where he would like to land.

1276
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: All I say is I got you know, I got

1277
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: a cousin grip in Monroe. So I've always had to

1278
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: follow Detroit sports a little bit. H This is about

1279
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: the best run that you guys have had in a while. Like,

1280
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: so everybody's competitive.

1281
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 2: Maybe you know, I'm surprised, listen, I was. I was with.

1282
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 3: I was with the vice chairman of the business not

1283
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 3: too long ago, and that we were talking about that,

1284
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 3: and he was.

1285
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: To him at mcna Island. He's that ownership group of

1286
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: the Pistons.

1287
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah amazing, Yeah, he's amazing. But he was even he's surprised.

1288
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 3: He didn't think it would be this year.

1289
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 1: So right, it's quick. But you know, hey, the East

1290
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: is open. It is wide open.

1291
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 3: How about the Celtics, By the way, I didn't think

1292
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 3: I mean listen, I'm a JB. I should people watch

1293
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 3: your podcast. I should listen to your podcast. I shouldn't

1294
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 3: say this, but I personally preferred JB's style of play

1295
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 3: over Tatum.

1296
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: Yes, I like to I know, I I know what

1297
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: you mean by Tatum him, but yeah, I mean, poor

1298
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum. There's a part of it feel sorry like

1299
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: he's I don't think he gets the do he deserves.

1300
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 2: Why is that? Why do you think that? Why do

1301
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 2: you feel that way?

1302
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: Because look, I think he's because in a weird way,

1303
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 1: it's like when he's great, it's like, well, yeah, he

1304
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 1: was supposed.

1305
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 2: To be great.

1306
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: That's all. I mean. It's there's something. Look, I think

1307
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: Lebron deals with this a little bit. I think we

1308
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 1: all hold Lebron to this absurd standard. I look back

1309
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: and I think it's amazing how well Lebron has handled

1310
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: all of it. I mean, you're told at fifteen you're

1311
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,480
Speaker 1: the king, and you kind of live up to expectations

1312
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,799
Speaker 1: that were put on you as a fifteen year old Okay,

1313
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 1: we can debate, well, he's got four titles. It's come on,

1314
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 1: like the guy was you know, I remember a guy

1315
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: named Todd Marinovitch given the same treatment on the Sports

1316
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: Illustrated Football player. That's great. You know, his father raised

1317
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: him to be this perfect quarterback and he completely imploded,

1318
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, cause the expect are gargibli

1319
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: because he couldn't handle the pressure, right, And here's a

1320
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: fifteen year old kid who got the same any and

1321
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: he handled it. And I'm sorry whatever. You know what

1322
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: Lebron's scandal is there? Right? The Lebron scandals are, Oh

1323
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: nobody likes his take on this political thing or that

1324
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: political thing. You know, there's no scandal scandal with him.

1325
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Absolutely.

1326
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 3: We could argue that Michael Jordan has more scandal than

1327
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 3: Lebron James.

1328
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 2: So I know I'm with you there.

1329
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 3: My my critiques of Lebron James are only related to basketball.

1330
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 3: They are not related to him as a person. I

1331
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 3: just don't I don't think he's the greatest. I would

1332
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: put him at number two, number three, but I just think,

1333
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 3: you know.

1334
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: What, I'm not planning to run for the mayor to

1335
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: become mayor of v Slansing. But I think after I

1336
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: said my statement, I'd at least get at least a

1337
01:09:55,600 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: few votes. I think Magic gets underrated in this conversation.

1338
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean he his career gets cut short, and Jordan

1339
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: and Magic only face off once if he doesn't get HIV.

1340
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 1: I promise you they face off a couple more times.

1341
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: Golds Lakers becomes a thing in the early nineties and

1342
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: he gets all he has to do is get one,

1343
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: and who's got six? Magic won his first year. You

1344
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 1: know what Michael Jordan didn't do that. You know what

1345
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: Lebron didn't do that. You know what Kareem didn't do that. Yeah,

1346
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: I can go all day on my Magic.

1347
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 2: Listen, we got it one day. You're in DC, right,

1348
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: I am.

1349
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 3: I when I when I come to town next, which

1350
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: will be very soon because I'm fundraising, I will definitely,

1351
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 3: you know, I'll.

1352
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: Look you up. I would love to talk sports with you.

1353
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 3: I had the privilege of I had the privilege of

1354
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 3: me Willbon I've never met Corneiser.

1355
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 2: I would love to. I would love to pick a

1356
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: grant on sports as well.

1357
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, he would. He would have a blast for that. Hey, John,

1358
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: this has been great, appreciate the time. Congrats on the book.

1359
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: Like I said, I it is not your it is

1360
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: not what people expect, but it's I learned a lot

1361
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: both about your father but about you know. It's it's

1362
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 1: just it's tough to live in some you know, it's

1363
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: both a privilege but it's also taugh and I think

1364
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: you captured it pretty well, uh, the without without coming

1365
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: across like some elitis complaining about their lifestyle.

1366
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 3: It was definitely a difficult needle to thread, but I

1367
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 3: feel like I think I knew I did the best

1368
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 3: I could.

1369
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 1: Well be safe on the trail and uh definitely with me.

1370
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1371
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 3: H