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Speaker 1: Whence the last time you took a time out? I'm
Speaker 1: Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair
Speaker 1: Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender
Speaker 1: division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr
Speaker 1: Addina Roocar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an
Speaker 1: expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, and Burnout.
Speaker 1: We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out, a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine, repealing back
Speaker 1: the layers around why society makes it so easy to
Speaker 1: guard men's time like it's diamonds and treat women's time
Speaker 1: like it's infinite like sand. And so, whether you're partnered
Speaker 1: with or without children, or in a career where you
Speaker 1: want more boundaries, this is the place for you, for
Speaker 1: people of all family structures. So take this time out
Speaker 1: with us to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim
Speaker 1: your time. Listen to Time Out, a fair play podcast
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and
Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode.
Speaker 1: So every episode of the week that just happened is
Speaker 1: here in one convenient with somewhat less ads package for
Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.
Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you
Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. You crack open a doctor pepper,
Speaker 1: you know it'll only make you more thirsty in the
Speaker 1: long run, but you need some liquid in your mouth,
Speaker 1: and you're saving You're remaining fifteen gallons for a quick shower.
Speaker 1: The U haul is finally almost packed up. You may
Speaker 1: be able to make it down to San Francisco in time.
Speaker 1: Living in Redwood Valley has been nice the last few years.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful place. But in August of two the
Speaker 1: drought became too much. Late last year, California's new far
Speaker 1: right governor lifted all water restrictions on farmers. This sparked
Speaker 1: a new statewide race to use what water was available
Speaker 1: before it ran out. Lake Mendesino was already low at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the year, and for the first time
Speaker 1: in your memory, it is now completely empty. San Francisco
Speaker 1: isn't doing great either, but it's much better off than
Speaker 1: where you live. The Russian River Watershed relies almost entirely
Speaker 1: on rainfall and is isolated from state and federal a loqueducts.
Speaker 1: After the governor lifted water restrictions, new almond and pot
Speaker 1: farms started sucking up groundwater, and by the end of
Speaker 1: the summer they'd started pumping from the river to feed
Speaker 1: their thirsty crops. By mid July, your town implemented a
Speaker 1: twenty five gallon limit per person per day. That's about
Speaker 1: as much water as you go through during a five
Speaker 1: minute shower. The first thing you sacrificed was your garden.
Speaker 1: Then you stopped flushing after you peed. These tweaks added up, though,
Speaker 1: and without water, the lifestyle you'd love to just stopped
Speaker 1: being possible. Your brother in San Francisco offered to let
Speaker 1: you move in with him. You weren't a fan of
Speaker 1: the big city, but at least you'd be able to
Speaker 1: shower again. And so you find yourself sipping an empty
Speaker 1: soda can and loading up your last few boxes into
Speaker 1: the U haul. You give your brother a quick call,
Speaker 1: saying you're all packed up and about to head out.
Speaker 1: He sounds worried and mentioned something about his school letting
Speaker 1: new teachers go do to budget cuts. You can't really
Speaker 1: afford to think about that. Now, you just need to leave,
Speaker 1: since you're all sweaty from loading the U haul the
Speaker 1: last few days. You decided to hop into the shower
Speaker 1: one last time. Knew it wouldn't last long, but you
Speaker 1: still seemed surprised when the water turned off after what
Speaker 1: felt like only two minutes. You quickly dry off and
Speaker 1: grab some clean clothes from your backpack and throw your
Speaker 1: damp towel into the passenger seat of the truck. You
Speaker 1: say goodbye to your home of ten years and to
Speaker 1: your old succulent plants, and begin the three hour drive
Speaker 1: down to San Francisco. Water scarcity is a problem you're
Speaker 1: probably already familiar with, especially if you live in the Southwest.
Speaker 1: California has dealt with particularly brutal droughts over the last
Speaker 1: twenty years, and the Golden States water problems could be
Speaker 1: about to get much much worse, because in just a
Speaker 1: few days, California might find itself helmed by a far
Speaker 1: right governor with a near religious hatred of water conservation.
Speaker 1: Electoral politics are not generally a big focus on this show,
Speaker 1: but what's going on in the state of California could
Speaker 1: have serious implications for many people, including those outside the
Speaker 1: West Coast. The ongoing recall campaign against Governor Gavin Newsom
Speaker 1: started out in June of publican politicians and activists unhappy
Speaker 1: with Newsom's handling of the pandemic. Newsom's opposition to President
Speaker 1: Trump's cracked down on undocumented immigrants also played a role.
Speaker 1: This is actually the fifth recall attempt against Newsom since
Speaker 1: he took office in twenty nineteen, but it's the first
Speaker 1: one to gain traction. It's fueled in part by Newsom's
Speaker 1: own hypocrisy and hubris. On November six the recall effort
Speaker 1: gained court approval for a signature gathering extension, and later
Speaker 1: that night, Governor Newsom went to a birthday party for
Speaker 1: a Sacramento lobbyist and friend at French Laundry, a pricing
Speaker 1: Napa Valley restaurant. Soon after, photo surfaced of Newsom mingling
Speaker 1: maskless at the packed restaurant. He faced heavy criticism and apologized,
Speaker 1: but the damage was done. Republicans latched onto this as
Speaker 1: an opportunity to finally push the recall effort through. The
Speaker 1: recall petition, which had only fifty five thousand and five
Speaker 1: eight signatures on the day of the dinner, had nearly
Speaker 1: half a million a month after the November sixth incident.
Speaker 1: California's recall process is probably the least democratic one in
Speaker 1: the unit it states. Gathering signatures to authorize a recall
Speaker 1: election is a pretty standard thing, but California has among
Speaker 1: the lowest signature requirements and states that allow for the
Speaker 1: recall of an official. Most states require that the recall
Speaker 1: campaign must gather signatures equal to of the votes cast
Speaker 1: in the last election. California requires just twelve percent for
Speaker 1: executive officials. The li Times notes quote that might have
Speaker 1: been a high bar in nineteen eleven when the population
Speaker 1: was scattered across the seven hundred and seventy mile length
Speaker 1: of the state. But is it too low in one
Speaker 1: when petitions for ballot measures are gathered and moss by
Speaker 1: paid staff and parking lots. And That's not the only
Speaker 1: questionable aspect of California's recall process. On recall election day,
Speaker 1: voters will face two questions on the ballot. First, yes
Speaker 1: or no on whether to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office. Second,
Speaker 1: and this one is technically optional, If so, who among
Speaker 1: the forty six candidates do you want to take his place?
Speaker 1: The first question is decided by a simple majority, just
Speaker 1: like other ballot measures, but when it comes to the
Speaker 1: second question, the percentage requirements change. The replacement candidate doesn't
Speaker 1: need more than fifty percent to win, so if more
Speaker 1: than fifty percent of the voters say yes on the
Speaker 1: recall question, Governor Newsom must step down. Even if he
Speaker 1: has more overall support than any other individual challenger on
Speaker 1: the ballot. The replacement question is determined by who gets
Speaker 1: the most votes among the challengers on the ballot, which
Speaker 1: Newsom cannot be on. So forty nine point nine percent
Speaker 1: of the voters can back Mr. Newsom, and he can
Speaker 1: still lose to someone who is supported by only say
Speaker 1: of the electorate or even a smaller fraction. For other
Speaker 1: California elections, including special elections triggered by the death or
Speaker 1: resignation of an official, a candidate cannot win without the
Speaker 1: support of a majority of voters. If a candidate doesn't
Speaker 1: win over fifty percent outright, then the top to compete
Speaker 1: in a runoff election. Not the case for California's recall process.
Speaker 1: Organizers of the recall campaign submitted two point one million
Speaker 1: signatures by the March seventeenth filing deadline. One million, seven
Speaker 1: hundred nineteen thousand, nine hundred signatures were ultimately determined to
Speaker 1: have been valid, which was enough to trigger the recall.
Speaker 1: The deadline for casting your vote is September. If the
Speaker 1: recall succeeds, the new governor would be in office for
Speaker 1: the remainder of Mr. Newsom's term through January second three,
Speaker 1: and that leaves a lot of time for executive factory,
Speaker 1: especially considering the new front runner. Far right radio talk
Speaker 1: show host and frequent Fox guest Larry Elder, has emerged
Speaker 1: as the likely candidate to replace Newsom in the event
Speaker 1: the recall goes through. Elder, who was sixty nine, jumped
Speaker 1: into the race relatively late in the game during mid July.
Speaker 1: At that time, it was more of a toss up
Speaker 1: between Republican candidates Kevin Falconer, a former San Diego mayor,
Speaker 1: and businessman John Cox, who lost badly to Newsom in
Speaker 1: the gubernatorial election. Assemblyman Kevin Kylie and former athlete and
Speaker 1: media personality Caton Jenner pulled less well. But as Larry
Speaker 1: Elder entered the race, he almost immediately became the front
Speaker 1: runner in polls and raised lots of money from small donors,
Speaker 1: and the three weeks after he announced his campaign he
Speaker 1: raised nearly four and a half million dollars according to
Speaker 1: fundraising disclosures. That's more than every other Republican challenger, sans
Speaker 1: multimillionaire businessman John Cox, who's largely funding his own campaign.
Speaker 1: Elder has been a central figurehead of the right wing
Speaker 1: radio talk show scene since the nineties, but has always
Speaker 1: been hesitant to run for public office, deeming the state
Speaker 1: of California ungovernable due to its liberal supermajority, But after
Speaker 1: talking with his friend and mentor Dennis Praeger of the
Speaker 1: neo fascist propaganda outlet Praeger You, he figured it might
Speaker 1: be worth a shot, and has expressed desire to use
Speaker 1: the emergency powers of the governor to push the state
Speaker 1: right words. Elder was born in Los Angeles, but moved
Speaker 1: to Cleveland to attend law school and opened his own
Speaker 1: firm in nineteen eighty. Elder's career began as a bit
Speaker 1: of an accident. He'd been invited on a Cleveland station
Speaker 1: as a guest. He did so well on air that
Speaker 1: when the regular host went on vacation the following week,
Speaker 1: the program director asked Elder to fill in. Soon enough,
Speaker 1: Elder had his own weekly time slot on the Cleveland station.
Speaker 1: In the early nineties, a guest host from Los Angeles
Speaker 1: list Dennis Prager, visited Cleveland. Elder quickly impressed Praeger with
Speaker 1: his on air wit and talent, coupled with the uniqueness
Speaker 1: of a black man openly expressing extreme conservative views. Praeger
Speaker 1: persuaded his home station KBC in Los Angeles to give
Speaker 1: Elder a shot. Quoting The l A Times, Elder returned
Speaker 1: to his hometown in nine four, two years after the
Speaker 1: civil unrest, following the acquittal of the officers who beat
Speaker 1: Rodney King and in the midst of the O. J.
Speaker 1: Simpson murder case. The program director at rival KFI, David G. Hall,
Speaker 1: felt KBC made a creative move bringing on this guy
Speaker 1: from South Central who swung the other way on race.
Speaker 1: Almost from the beginning, the self proclaimed sage from South
Speaker 1: Central whipped up a fewer. He mixed soundbites from Representative
Speaker 1: Maxine Waters with a recording of a barking dog. He said,
Speaker 1: Blacks exaggerate the significance of racism, while women did the
Speaker 1: same in regards to sexism. For nearly four years, Elder
Speaker 1: has slapped many members of his own race in the
Speaker 1: face on radio, belittling them as whiners or losers, holding
Speaker 1: himself up as a model of African American excellence. He's
Speaker 1: become a darling of white listeners who seemed to almost
Speaker 1: gush when they telephone him on k ABC Talk Radio.
Speaker 1: They are astonished to find a black man who not
Speaker 1: only isn't going to chastise them, but who also often
Speaker 1: agreed with them, a black man who declared that race
Speaker 1: was no longer a significant factor in American society. Elder
Speaker 1: also doesn't believe that racial profiling exists. This is despite
Speaker 1: telling The Times editorial Board that police pulled him over
Speaker 1: between seventy five and a hundred times the first year
Speaker 1: he had his driver's license. Elder's regressive, provocative content angered
Speaker 1: mine Angelinos and black citizens of California let a boycott
Speaker 1: of advertisers on the show. It worked, and by the
Speaker 1: late nineties the show had begun losing millions in ad revenue.
Speaker 1: But thanks to syndication, changing networks, podcasts, and TV appearances,
Speaker 1: Elder has been able to remain a central figure of
Speaker 1: the right wing content sphere. He most recently starred in
Speaker 1: a video series for far right propaganda organization and literal cult,
Speaker 1: The Epoch Times. According to Elder's campaign, the central recall
Speaker 1: is as he is focusing on our rampant crime, rising homelessness,
Speaker 1: out of control costs of living, water shortages, disastrous wildfires,
Speaker 1: rolling brown outs, and repressive COVID restrictions. For this show,
Speaker 1: we'll be focusing on the last three as they relate
Speaker 1: to the rapidly shifting and hostile climate. For the past
Speaker 1: thirty years, Elder has been a classic conservative climate denier.
Speaker 1: He had a whole section of his website devoted to
Speaker 1: debunking the Gore bull warming myth. Like Al Gore bullshit
Speaker 1: warming myth, Yeah, it's a bad pun. In a CNN
Speaker 1: interview prior to the two thousand eight election, Elder called
Speaker 1: global warming a false myth, while disparaging and making fun
Speaker 1: of both John McCain and George W. Bush for discussing
Speaker 1: global warming is a serious issue. However, more recently, Elder
Speaker 1: has shifted his rhetoric around the climate. In an interview
Speaker 1: last month, he expressed belief that some warming is taking place,
Speaker 1: but by using old soft denialist talking points climate is
Speaker 1: always changing. Of course, the climate is changing. The question
Speaker 1: is what do we do about it? Do we deal
Speaker 1: with the effects of it, or do we force feed
Speaker 1: renewables based economy down the throats of people, jacking up
Speaker 1: the price energy a disproportionate pain for poor people. But
Speaker 1: of course there's climate change, and the climate is getting
Speaker 1: warmer and maybe about a degree or so in the
Speaker 1: last several years, and it will likely continue. He adds,
Speaker 1: what I don't believe in is climate change alarmism. He
Speaker 1: also said that he was not sure whether climate change
Speaker 1: is making wildfires worse. Quote fires have gotten worse because
Speaker 1: the failure of this governor to engage in sensible fire suppression.
Speaker 1: Elder also blames California's rising housing costs on environmental extremists
Speaker 1: that jack up the cost of housing so that developers
Speaker 1: have to wait and wait and get sued over and over.
Speaker 1: Agains that finally, when the home is built, it's way
Speaker 1: more expensive than otherwise it would be without these environmental
Speaker 1: rules and regulations. Despite the slight back pedaling on climate
Speaker 1: for better media optics, his potential policies on the topic
Speaker 1: are just as horrendous as one might assume. In a
Speaker 1: recent video news conference, Elder declared that he would in
Speaker 1: the war on oil and gas and the attack on
Speaker 1: the logging industry, will also reducing regulation on fracking and
Speaker 1: stopping California's growing efforts to expand when in solar power,
Speaker 1: which he calls not very efficient. Elder did not mention
Speaker 1: climate change during his news conference. Water scarcity will be
Speaker 1: an increasingly severe concern for California in the coming years.
Speaker 1: Drought is already a major political talking point among voters
Speaker 1: and politicians, and it creates another rift between city folk
Speaker 1: and rural farmers. Farmers are having a harder time growing
Speaker 1: crops and feel threatened by water rationing. They're frustrated by
Speaker 1: the thought that the Democrats running cities will always prioritize
Speaker 1: pumping extra water into population dense areas. Meanwhile, people in
Speaker 1: cities are concerned they will be forced to cut back
Speaker 1: on personal water use, as almond farmers suck up tons
Speaker 1: of water to feed their droops. Just building more dams
Speaker 1: and water catchment systems or aquifers may seem like a
Speaker 1: solution and have done properties. Some of those things might help,
Speaker 1: but they can't make up for a lack of rainfall
Speaker 1: and snow melt. Relying on river water has its own problems.
Speaker 1: Pulling too much from fresh water that flows through rivers
Speaker 1: allows for extra salt water to intrude from the bay,
Speaker 1: and ocean salinity in the water negatively impacts local ecosystems
Speaker 1: and dirties what is supposed to be a freshwater source.
Speaker 1: Drought is simultaneously pushing migratory a fish species like chinook
Speaker 1: salmon and steelhead trout closer to the brink of extinction.
Speaker 1: Large numbers of fish are dying off because the rivers
Speaker 1: they rely on as spawning habitats are too warm or
Speaker 1: too low. Anxiety around water, droughts, and crops as among
Speaker 1: the issues driving some people to vote yes on the recall.
Speaker 1: A poll conducted last July by the Public Policy Institute
Speaker 1: of California found that residents sited drought and water supply
Speaker 1: as their top environmental concern, with about twenty calling it
Speaker 1: their chief concern, which makes it poll well above the
Speaker 1: related problems of wildfires, air pollution, and climate change. Republican
Speaker 1: politicians have been using anxiety around drought to drum up
Speaker 1: support for the recall by blaming the current situation on Newsom.
Speaker 1: The original recall petition against Newsom from early warned that
Speaker 1: the governor quote seeks to impose additional burdens on our state,
Speaker 1: including rationing our water use. Last April, Governor Newsom did
Speaker 1: declare a drought emergency into northwest California counties. The order
Speaker 1: allowed state officials to restrict the amount of water divert
Speaker 1: from the Russian River and authorized the relocation of fish
Speaker 1: stranded in drying puddles. The local county government asked residents
Speaker 1: to use no more than fifty gallons per day per person,
Speaker 1: but Newsom himself hasn't mandated water rationing for individual consumers,
Speaker 1: though he has asked Californians to voluntarily cut consumption by
Speaker 1: fifteent and has suggested that statewide restrictions could be on
Speaker 1: the table if conditions worsen heading into the fall, Newsom
Speaker 1: in the Department of Water Resources as a whole do
Speaker 1: have ideas in mind for tackling this issue. Last year,
Speaker 1: Newsom authorized an eleven billion dollar water infrastructure project building
Speaker 1: a single thirty mile tunnel under the Sacramento, San Joaque
Speaker 1: and River Delta. The project, which has been discussed for years,
Speaker 1: is being pushed forward in hopes that it will protect
Speaker 1: the Delta's existing wetland ecosystem and supply enough fresh, clean
Speaker 1: water to be diverted south for the rest of the state.
Speaker 1: But the tunnel concept has faced opposition both locally and
Speaker 1: from conservation minded folks. Some residents in the Delta regency
Speaker 1: it is just a water grab to meet the demands
Speaker 1: of southern California and the ag culture industry, while the
Speaker 1: needs of those up north are being ignored. Ecologically focused
Speaker 1: critics say it could still increase salinity in the Delta
Speaker 1: and result in notable harm for the ecosystem. Newsom has
Speaker 1: more recently discussed other action and legislation to help mitigate
Speaker 1: the continued drought, quoting the San Francisco Chronicle. In July,
Speaker 1: the governor signed a state budget that includes five point
Speaker 1: one billion dollars over four years for new water infrastructure
Speaker 1: and drought preparation projects, including money to repair delivery canals,
Speaker 1: help farmers irrigrate crops more efficiently, and start water recycling projects. Still,
Speaker 1: Newsom's recent actions have done little to quell anger among
Speaker 1: many farmers who stay the state's failure to plan for
Speaker 1: another major drought just a few years after it exited
Speaker 1: the last one has put them on the brink of ruin.
Speaker 1: Ernest Buddy Mendez, a lifelong farmer in Fresno County and
Speaker 1: Republican county supervisor, said he was forced to let hundreds
Speaker 1: of acres where he used to grow cotton and wheat
Speaker 1: dry up this year after his allotment of river water
Speaker 1: was slashed to zero. He's relying on groundwater pumped from
Speaker 1: wells to keep his grove of almond trees alive. Mendez
Speaker 1: said he hasn't a aided whom to support as a
Speaker 1: replacement candidate, and the recall just that he will vote
Speaker 1: hell yeah to remove newsom. Let's face, A newsom dam
Speaker 1: is a four letter word, Mendez said. We haven't done
Speaker 1: anything in twenty years about building storage. California already does
Speaker 1: have one of the most extensive damn systems in the country,
Speaker 1: with nearly fifteen hundred reservoirs. Building new on river dams
Speaker 1: would cost billions of dollars if such efforts even survive
Speaker 1: legal challenges, which are all but guaranteed. Amid the struggle
Speaker 1: to save endangered fish species, there are not many areas
Speaker 1: left that would make sense or be sustainable to build
Speaker 1: a new large reservoir. One other, more cost effective solution
Speaker 1: could be to store more water collected during wet years
Speaker 1: and underground aquifers. One of the solutions to this problem
Speaker 1: is the same as the solution to a number of
Speaker 1: other climate related problems, which is that we simply have
Speaker 1: to cut the amount of resources we're consuming. Whether that
Speaker 1: means reducing our energy use or cutting down on wasteful
Speaker 1: water use. You can only build so many dams. The
Speaker 1: trend of California farmers growing thirstier crops has made an
Speaker 1: existing problem much worse. Today, the state produces three times
Speaker 1: as many acres of almonds as it did twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago. With California most likely entering a third straight
Speaker 1: year of disappointing rainfall and snow melt, anxiety around drought
Speaker 1: and increased severity of water restrictions won't get any better,
Speaker 1: And if the Lenina weather pattern hits the West Coast,
Speaker 1: as it's poised to, that would mean the western US
Speaker 1: will have a drier and hotter winter than average. Last August,
Speaker 1: water regulators made an unprecedented move to begin cracking down
Speaker 1: on water use in the sprawling Sacramento River in San
Speaker 1: Joaquin River watersheds, ordering for farmers, water districts, and other landowners,
Speaker 1: including the City of San Francisco, to stop drawing water
Speaker 1: from the basins of the river or face penalties of
Speaker 1: up to ten thousand dollars a day. The city has
Speaker 1: enough water in its reservoirs to meet demand for at
Speaker 1: least a couple of years. And stored water is not
Speaker 1: affected by the state restrictions. Water agencies also can seek
Speaker 1: an exemption from curtailments of human health or safety or compromised.
Speaker 1: This does hit rural areas and agriculture the hardest because
Speaker 1: most cities have alternative supplies and stored water to tap into.
Speaker 1: Looking to attract voters, Larry Elder and other Republican challengers
Speaker 1: to NEWSOM have made it a recurring point to say
Speaker 1: that farmers should not have to endure such cuts, but
Speaker 1: they don't really give any perspective solutions to prevent rationing.
Speaker 1: When water levels at reservoirs, lakes, and wells are all plummeting,
Speaker 1: Larry Elder said drought is not inevitable and said he
Speaker 1: supports building more reservoirs and dams to store runoff, but
Speaker 1: he has also a voice support for permitting to salinization projects.
Speaker 1: The salinization devastates ocean life, costs much more than other alternatives,
Speaker 1: and uses tons of energy. Also, soon it will be
Speaker 1: made obsolete by increasing focus on water recycling. Explaining to
Speaker 1: salonization quickly, ocean water is collected and run through pipes
Speaker 1: to remove the largest solids, and then pump through reverse
Speaker 1: osmosis filters to remove salt, while fish and other creatures
Speaker 1: die upon being sucked in or just from the force
Speaker 1: of the water flow. In a report studying it is
Speaker 1: salonization plant in the early two thousands, it was found
Speaker 1: that on average over a five year period, nineteen point
Speaker 1: four billion larva were caught up at intakes and about
Speaker 1: two point seven million fish, along with marine mammals and
Speaker 1: sea turtles were killed by intake equipment. For every gallon
Speaker 1: of drinking water, the salinization leaves another gallon of salty
Speaker 1: brine behind. The plants then just mix that with two
Speaker 1: parts ocean water before pumping it back into the ocean.
Speaker 1: These measures can negatively impact the environment for this generation
Speaker 1: and generations to come. This type of resource extract of
Speaker 1: thinking reflects how we got into the problem in the
Speaker 1: first place. Battling over water allotments will only get us
Speaker 1: so far when dealing with lackluster rainfall. What can help
Speaker 1: is permaculture programs to help farmers learn ways to irrigate
Speaker 1: more effectively and cultivate healthier soils that retain water, moving
Speaker 1: away from water heavy crops like almonds and towards more
Speaker 1: sustainable and moisture efficient crops must also be done if
Speaker 1: we want to stave off the worst effects. Putting Larry
Speaker 1: Elder in office won't make it rain, but it will
Speaker 1: put the state at least another year further behind on
Speaker 1: taking the kind of action necessary to ensure California remains habitable.
Speaker 1: What's up, guys, I'm a Shot Balau and I am
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Speaker 1: remember everything about the entire ten years that we filmed
Speaker 1: that show, and you remember absolutely nothing of the ten
Speaker 1: years that we filmed that show. Listen to nine O
Speaker 1: two one OMG on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey leath the listeners.
Speaker 1: Tig here. Last season on Lethal Lit, you might remember,
Speaker 1: I came to Hollow Falls on a mission clearing my
Speaker 1: aunt best name and making sure justice was finally served.
Speaker 1: But I hadn't counted on a rash of new murders
Speaker 1: tearing apart the town. My mission put myself and my
Speaker 1: friends in danger. Though it wasn't all bad, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be a realty tig I like you. But now
Speaker 1: all signs point to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls.
Speaker 1: If this game is just starting, you better believe I'm
Speaker 1: gonna win. I'm tig Torres, and this is Lethal Lit.
Speaker 1: Catch up on season one of the hit murder mystery
Speaker 1: podcast Lethal Lit. A tig Torre's mystery out now, and
Speaker 1: then tune in for all new thrills in season two,
Speaker 1: dropping weekly starting February nine. Subscribe now to never miss
Speaker 1: an episode. Listen to Leave the Lit on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: The last few months in San Francisco have been honestly
Speaker 1: better than you expected. Still hot and dry, but now
Speaker 1: that you're in fall, the heat has become manageable. In
Speaker 1: the Bay area, at least, staying with your brother has
Speaker 1: been actually really nice. The first few showers felt like luxury.
Speaker 1: Recently he's had less of a good time. He found
Speaker 1: out he was getting laid off right before the school
Speaker 1: year started. He told me. Over fifteen thousand other teachers
Speaker 1: have been fired as a part of the governor's new
Speaker 1: reform schools program. The teacher's union is fighting it, but
Speaker 1: your brother isn't too optimistic of regarding the outcome. He's
Speaker 1: been looking for new work, and meanwhile, you've gotten a
Speaker 1: shitty retail job to help with bills while you decide
Speaker 1: on what hospitals you want to apply to. You don't
Speaker 1: really miss your old MS job in Redwood Valley. When
Speaker 1: you finally do get back into medical care, you really
Speaker 1: prefer something in a hospital clinic setting as opposed to
Speaker 1: the extra stress inherent in emergency services. The one chance
Speaker 1: you have had to use your medical skills since moving
Speaker 1: was during the fires last September and October back up north.
Speaker 1: They got really bad and hundreds of thousands of people evacuated.
Speaker 1: Down south. Some old activist friends of yours from college
Speaker 1: made their own fire relief slash mutual aid set up
Speaker 1: to give out clothes and food and to help people
Speaker 1: displaced by the fires. You haven't talked much with your
Speaker 1: old college buddies in the past few years, but upon
Speaker 1: hearing of the relief effort, you happily offered up your
Speaker 1: skills to help with minor medical issues in a smell
Speaker 1: medic tent they set up. It was the first time
Speaker 1: you've helped with anything related to protests organizing since he
Speaker 1: moved up to Redwood Valley ten years ago. It was
Speaker 1: oddly refreshing. Politics hasn't been a major part of your
Speaker 1: life since college, But speaking of politics, midterms are finally
Speaker 1: this month. The past year has felt like it stretched
Speaker 1: on forever. Your brother and his union buddies have been
Speaker 1: doing canvassing for a few progressive city council candidates that
Speaker 1: might actually get a shot at getting in. You haven't
Speaker 1: had time to adjust to San Francisco's local political scene,
Speaker 1: and honestly, you're not sure if you really care to.
Speaker 1: You have been keeping half an eye on the big
Speaker 1: state electoral races, though, which feels kind of weird. You
Speaker 1: know there's no way the Republican government will get reelected,
Speaker 1: not here in California. One thing that has gotten you're
Speaker 1: worried is the weekly anti election fraud rallies that have
Speaker 1: been happening in l A ever since October. The governor,
Speaker 1: surrounded by state troopers, has made it down himself a
Speaker 1: few times to drop up support from his fan base,
Speaker 1: and after the rallies, roving gangs of far right extremists
Speaker 1: have gone around randomly attacking homeless encampments. You heard that
Speaker 1: just last week after a Sunday rally, three people had
Speaker 1: to be rushed to the emergency room. It's now just
Speaker 1: a week before election day. You're on the bus home
Speaker 1: from your job at the vintage clothing store when you
Speaker 1: receive a message on signal from one year old Call
Speaker 1: Knowledge Mutual Aid buddies you met up with again during
Speaker 1: the fire relief effort. The message reads, hey, are you free?
Speaker 1: On election Day. You hadn't really thought about the day itself,
Speaker 1: you respond, maybe nothing really planned yet. Your friend replies
Speaker 1: with a fat wall of text. My affinity group and
Speaker 1: I are heading down to l A on Tuesday. There's
Speaker 1: a big stop, the Steel type rally happening, and where
Speaker 1: it is, lots of proud Boys are gonna show up.
Speaker 1: Comrades in l A have put out some calls for support,
Speaker 1: so my crew is going to go down and probably
Speaker 1: bring some medical stuff. If you want to come, we
Speaker 1: got an extra seat in the van. The thought of
Speaker 1: driving down to Los Angeles to deal with proud boys
Speaker 1: doesn't excite you, especially on an already stressful day. You
Speaker 1: think about it for a few minutes, images of the
Speaker 1: people maimed during and after the recent rallies floods your mind.
Speaker 1: Your buddies no more about organizing and protests than you do,
Speaker 1: But you have more medical training. You side, You'll do it,
Speaker 1: You reply, I'll come with and pack some extra iffects
Speaker 1: and tourniquets. Among the issues of Republican recall, challengers have
Speaker 1: raised to attack NEWSOM force mismanagement has leomed large among
Speaker 1: the recent complaints. This type of thing hearkens back to
Speaker 1: Trump's old habit of blaming the governor and not raking
Speaker 1: enough leaves for California's fiery plight. On a larger scale,
Speaker 1: this can be seen as part of an effort to
Speaker 1: push all the blame of wildfires off of oil gas
Speaker 1: and our transformation of the climate and onto a simple
Speaker 1: lack of fire prevention measures. This narrative, of course, makes
Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry more happy. The thing is, all
Speaker 1: of these things are contributing factors for California's wildfire problem.
Speaker 1: Climate changed caused hotter temperatures and droughts makes fires easier
Speaker 1: to catch and spread, and inadequate force management, plus above
Speaker 1: ground power lines do the same. Just because there are
Speaker 1: bad faith attacks on Newsom doesn't mean there aren't actual
Speaker 1: failures he's made as governor, especially in relation to the forests.
Speaker 1: An investigation from CAP Radio and California MPR published last
Speaker 1: June found out Newsom had grossly misrepresented and fled out
Speaker 1: lied about his promises of new wildfire prevention efforts. Elements
Speaker 1: of the piece were of course used by Larry Elder
Speaker 1: and the Right to push for support of the recall,
Speaker 1: but the article itself is a very fine piece of journalism.
Speaker 1: Back when Newsom first took office in January twenty nine,
Speaker 1: one of the first things he did was signed on
Speaker 1: the executive Order overhauling how California handles wildfire prevention and
Speaker 1: forest management. The measures included removal of hazardous dead trees,
Speaker 1: vegetation clearing, creation of fuel breaks and community defensible spaces,
Speaker 1: and creation of ingress and egress corridors. In January twenty,
Speaker 1: a year after Newsom's initial announcement, the Governor's often claimed
Speaker 1: in a press release that under the executive Orders priority projects,
Speaker 1: ninety thousand acres got treated with these fire prevention measures,
Speaker 1: But according to data attained by cap Radio and MPR,
Speaker 1: the actual number of acres treated by these priority projects
Speaker 1: was only eleven thousand, three hundred and ninety nine, just
Speaker 1: thirteen percent of the number Newsome boasted about, quoting the
Speaker 1: piece by cap Radio quote, data shows cal Fire's fuel
Speaker 1: reduction output dropped by half and twenty twenty two, levels
Speaker 1: below Governor Jerry Brown's final year in office. At the
Speaker 1: same time, Newsom slashed roughly one hundred and fifty million
Speaker 1: dollars from cow Fire's wildfire prevention budget. In four point
Speaker 1: three million acres burned, the most in California's recorded history.
Speaker 1: That was more than double the previous record set in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, when the camp fire destroyed the town of Paradise,
Speaker 1: ultimately killing eighty five people. A decade ago, cal Fire
Speaker 1: was treating a poultry seventeen thousand acres annually. That number
Speaker 1: has steadily climbed, though Newsom misrepresented the number of acres
Speaker 1: treated in his priority projects. The overall amount of wildfire
Speaker 1: mitigation work carried out by CalFire spiked in his first
Speaker 1: year of office to sixty four thousand acres, but in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, fuel reduction totals plummeted to less than thirty
Speaker 1: two thousand acres, a roughly fifty percent drop unquote. Multiple
Speaker 1: factors contributed to twenty twenties subpar fire prevention and reduction efforts.
Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the year with the large number of
Speaker 1: acres treated in recent history, the state budget allotted for
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty five million dollars for wildfire prevention
Speaker 1: and resource management, but after the COVID nineteen pandemic hit
Speaker 1: California in early twenty Newsom cut the budget by down
Speaker 1: to two hundred and three million on top of the
Speaker 1: budget cuts, The fires themselves made prevention work more challenging.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenties, wildfire season started out early, which resulted in
Speaker 1: less time to do prescribed burns and thinnings because the
Speaker 1: same teams that are tasked with prevention and fuel reduction
Speaker 1: often also serve as firefighters once the fires break out.
Speaker 1: As of Mae, cal Fire has treated over twenty three
Speaker 1: tho acres throughout the year. This puts California on a
Speaker 1: trajectory better than last year's total, but not as high
Speaker 1: as the sixty thousand plus acres treated in Newsom has
Speaker 1: been trying to make up for his missteps and gross exaggerations.
Speaker 1: Quoting the Cap Radio report again quote, Newsom is trying
Speaker 1: to play catch up with the state enjoying an unexpected surplus.
Speaker 1: Newsome proposed two billion in spending on wildfires and emergency preparedness,
Speaker 1: with one point two billion going towards wildfire resiliency in
Speaker 1: the upcoming budget. Experts say the increase in prevention spending
Speaker 1: could help the state get closer to a less dangerous
Speaker 1: wildfire season over time, but they also expressed concern over
Speaker 1: whether the state will sustain that commitment for years to
Speaker 1: come unquote. Revelations about Newsom's and cow fires lies and
Speaker 1: lackluster force management were quickly jumped on by Larry Elder
Speaker 1: and other Republican challengers as an easy way to attack
Speaker 1: Newsom and to move the conversation about wildfires away from
Speaker 1: climate change. Elder has said he has quot unquote no
Speaker 1: idea why more prevention and reduction measures aren't being done,
Speaker 1: and when he becomes governor, he'll be quote implementing these
Speaker 1: common sensical kinds of plans so that we can reduce
Speaker 1: the severity of these fires unquote. Elder has given no
Speaker 1: concrete plans on what measures he'll be shooting to implement,
Speaker 1: or any indication on how much money will be directed
Speaker 1: to prevent or fight fires. On the noted budgets. Elder
Speaker 1: has said that the more recent spending on wind and
Speaker 1: solar power has left quote less money for removing trees
Speaker 1: and putting power lines underground, the kind of things that
Speaker 1: would make these fires less intense unquote, and he promises
Speaker 1: to drastically cut spending unrenew wibles while also investing more
Speaker 1: in oil and gas. To be clear, Newsom's upcoming budget
Speaker 1: contains billions for both fire prevention, slash fuel reduction, and
Speaker 1: renewable energy such as wind and solar. Whoever ends up
Speaker 1: governing California is not only in charge of local politics.
Speaker 1: Like governors at other states. What happens in California affects
Speaker 1: people across the country and even globally, whether that's wildfire
Speaker 1: smoke traveling across continents or changes to supply chains and
Speaker 1: industry rippling across the world. California is, after all, the
Speaker 1: world's fifth largest economy. There are also political ramifications that
Speaker 1: could affect the States as a whole if Elder gets
Speaker 1: in office. The Senate is currently a fifty fifty split
Speaker 1: between Republicans and Democrats, with Vice President Kamala Harris getting
Speaker 1: the tie breaking vote. One of California senators is eighty
Speaker 1: eight year old Diane Feinstein, the oldest active Senator. If
Speaker 1: she dies in off or has to step down due
Speaker 1: to medical reasons before her term is over, the governor
Speaker 1: of California gets to appoint her replacement. If Elder appoints
Speaker 1: a Republican, then the Senate will be back under Geop
Speaker 1: control and give it his connections to the far right
Speaker 1: media sphere. The list of potentials that Elder could appoint
Speaker 1: is frightening. This is by no means inevitable even if
Speaker 1: Elder gets into office. If he does, Finstein does have
Speaker 1: the brief opportunity to step down and put a replacement
Speaker 1: in before the new governor has sworn into office. However,
Speaker 1: Feinstein has said she has no plans of doing so.
Speaker 1: Reports of her declining health have become only more common
Speaker 1: in recent years, but like many politicians and judges, she's
Speaker 1: not keen on stepping aside, even to possibly help prevent
Speaker 1: a disastrous outcome. Changes in the Senate are not required
Speaker 1: for horrible outcomes. In the wake of an even brief
Speaker 1: Elder governorship, his anti vax sentiments and planned to open
Speaker 1: up the state and remove basically all COVID restrictions will
Speaker 1: result in hospitals being pushed to max capacity. Elder has
Speaker 1: said he has plans to appoint education officials similar to
Speaker 1: former Secretary Betsy Devas, and judicial appointees like Conservative Supreme
Speaker 1: Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Elder has stated his intention of
Speaker 1: declaring states of emergency and using executive orders to push
Speaker 1: through otherwise unpopular legislation. He has discussed plans to declare
Speaker 1: an education emergency in order to fire upwards of twenty
Speaker 1: one quote unquote bad teachers. Elder blames teacher unions for
Speaker 1: quote protecting bad teachers, and in a recent interview stated,
Speaker 1: quote someone told me that between five percent and seven
Speaker 1: percent of public school teachers need to be fired. An
Speaker 1: emergency declaration would give the power to get rid of
Speaker 1: bad teachers faster than the system allows. Once you did that, automatically,
Speaker 1: education would improve overnight unquote. Now, Elder is not specified
Speaker 1: who had advised him on teacher terminations or how he
Speaker 1: plans to weed out the so called bad teachers out
Speaker 1: of the three thousand in the school system. He's also
Speaker 1: touted plans to declare a homeless emergency, but his solutions
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with actually helping homeless people. His
Speaker 1: homeless emergency declaration would allow him to suspend the California
Speaker 1: Environmental Quality Act, the long requiring environmental review of building projects.
Speaker 1: Elders stated goal is to unleash developers and contractors without
Speaker 1: environmental regulation, which he claims to quote trees developers and
Speaker 1: contractors like criminals unquote, and allows building projects to get
Speaker 1: suspended indefinitely, ultimately raising the cost of housing. In his opinion,
Speaker 1: one of the more frightening aspects of Larry Elder is
Speaker 1: his close ties to many far right propagandists. He's done
Speaker 1: work for Praker You Epic times, and has been a
Speaker 1: guest on Fox News at least two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: times in the past five years. In the last episode,
Speaker 1: we discussed his friendship with Dennis Prager. Also, Dave Reuben
Speaker 1: just recently campaigned for Elder at a recent rally, and
Speaker 1: a month and a half ago, Elder was on Candice
Speaker 1: Owens show discussing how the descendants of slave owners deserve
Speaker 1: reparations for having their property i e. Black people stolen
Speaker 1: from them when the slaves were freed. Those are his words,
Speaker 1: not mine. What's probably most concerning is Elder's connection to
Speaker 1: Stephen Miller. In fact, we wouldn't have Stephen Miller if
Speaker 1: it were not for Larry Elder. Back in the late nineties,
Speaker 1: a conservative student from Santa Monica High School would call
Speaker 1: into Larry Elder's show to rant about his school's liberal culture. Reportedly,
Speaker 1: the student would go around demanding staff and fellow students
Speaker 1: regularly recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He railed against condom
Speaker 1: giveaways and called Spanish language announcements quote a crutch preventing
Speaker 1: Spanish speakers from standing on their own unquote. Young Californians
Speaker 1: calling into Elder's show and agreeing with him wasn't very common,
Speaker 1: and Elder ate it up. He loved talking with the
Speaker 1: student so much that he let the kid on basically
Speaker 1: any time he wanted a platform to rant and rave.
Speaker 1: You know where this is going. That student was Stephen Miller.
Speaker 1: According to Miller, he appeared on Elder's show sixty nine
Speaker 1: times throughout his time in high school and university, and
Speaker 1: calls Elder quote the one true guide I've always had unquote.
Speaker 1: Miller's appearances on Elder's radio show made him a recognizable
Speaker 1: figure in the larger conservative media world, helping him connect
Speaker 1: with Steve Bannon and eventually President Trump. By extension, Elder
Speaker 1: was Stephen Miller's on ramp to the White House. In
Speaker 1: an email to Miller in Elder told him quote, I
Speaker 1: hope to live to see the day when you become president.
Speaker 1: When media has brought up his friendship with Stephen Miller,
Speaker 1: Elder tries very quickly to change the subject when pushed
Speaker 1: on the topic. In an interview, Elder shot back with quote,
Speaker 1: why would you bring up Stephen Miller? I'm just wondering
Speaker 1: what the agenda here is. What's the point, am I
Speaker 1: somehow what a Nazi? A fascist? Unquote? I think that
Speaker 1: says enough. The reason we haven't discussed the other candidates
Speaker 1: in the recall election is because at this point, if
Speaker 1: Newsom is recalled, it's absolutely certain that Elder will be
Speaker 1: the one to succeed him. He has a twenty point
Speaker 1: lead ahead other challengers, but that lead is still only
Speaker 1: a tiny fraction of the total electorate, which demonstrates the
Speaker 1: part of the problem in California's recall process. There are
Speaker 1: other Republican challengers with concerning pasts and beliefs, lots of
Speaker 1: anti mask, anti trans, anti VAXX, total disbelief, and climate
Speaker 1: change people spouting q and on originated conspiracy claims advocating
Speaker 1: the lie that the presidential election was stolen. And there's
Speaker 1: even a Democrat challenger that plans to use the National
Speaker 1: Guard to round up all homeless people and put them
Speaker 1: in concentratetion camps. But Elder himself shares a lot of
Speaker 1: those views and uses the fact that he's black as
Speaker 1: a shield for criticism against his racist and nationalist policies
Speaker 1: and ideas. We haven't even mentioned that. Last month Elder's
Speaker 1: x fiance came out and said that Elder was extremely
Speaker 1: abusive and had threatened her with a loaded gun. In
Speaker 1: early August, polls were showing pretty much a neck and
Speaker 1: neck for the first question on the ballot, yes or
Speaker 1: no on the recall itself. A Survey USA pull from
Speaker 1: that time even had respondents vote no on the recall
Speaker 1: and fifty one percent vote yes to remove Newsom. Throughout
Speaker 1: August and September, results started to flip the other direction
Speaker 1: as ads against the recall hit the airwaves and internet.
Speaker 1: The latest Survey USA poll has fifty focent voting no
Speaker 1: one the recall and voting yes. Other polls hover around
Speaker 1: the same ten to fifteen point lead for Newsome staying
Speaker 1: in office. Now, with poles not going the way Elder
Speaker 1: in the GOP would like, we're starting to see a new,
Speaker 1: get familiar narrative being prepared on on my on my website,
Speaker 1: elect Elder dot com. We have voter Integrity Project. We
Speaker 1: have lawyers all set up, all ready to go to
Speaker 1: foul lawsuits. In a timely fashion. The reason the lawsuits
Speaker 1: did not did not work in the election. We know
Speaker 1: what happened there is because the lawsuits were filed too
Speaker 1: late and many of them were dismissed one procedural grounds.
Speaker 1: Of course, don't like to overturn an election. So when
Speaker 1: did you hear of anything suspicious? We've heard a lot
Speaker 1: of things that have been suspicious so far. Go to
Speaker 1: elect Elder dot com. We're gonna sick our lawyers on them,
Speaker 1: foul lawsuits right away. They're gonna cheat. We know that.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you what? So many people are angry
Speaker 1: about the crime, about the homelessness, about the way he
Speaker 1: shut down this state, about the fact that one third
Speaker 1: of all small businesses, many of them are owned by
Speaker 1: black and brown and Asian American people that they hear about,
Speaker 1: but the declining call of the schools, about the fact
Speaker 1: that people are leaving, rolling brownouts, lack of water. So
Speaker 1: many people are angry. The number of people that are
Speaker 1: gonna to recall this man's going to be so overwhelming.
Speaker 1: So then even when they cheat, they're still gonna lose.
Speaker 1: That's Larry Elder saying that if he doesn't win, that
Speaker 1: means the election must have been stolen. Fox News has
Speaker 1: been promoting the same idea the past month. All of
Speaker 1: it is in the vein of the stop the Steel
Speaker 1: movement post presidential election, culminating with the attempted insurrection on
Speaker 1: January six. Here's Elder again on Fox News in early September.
Speaker 1: But you're right, I am concerned about voter fraud, and
Speaker 1: that's why I'm asking people to go to elect Elder
Speaker 1: dot com. That's my website. We have a voter integrity
Speaker 1: project set up with a bunch of lawyers ready to
Speaker 1: foul lawsuits if anybody sees anything suspicious. Big election fraud
Speaker 1: conspiracy proponent and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich was one
Speaker 1: of the first people to chime in to stoke disinformation
Speaker 1: about the recall election. And I think this may well
Speaker 1: be the most rigged stay wide election we've seen probably
Speaker 1: at least a half century. And I think people should
Speaker 1: look carefully of this because it's pretty good evidence that
Speaker 1: if Newsom is in a straight, honest count, he probably
Speaker 1: has a good chance of losing. But if they can
Speaker 1: stuff every batto on box in California and they can
Speaker 1: cheat in every way possible, and of course this type
Speaker 1: of propaganda has made it onto the most watched cable
Speaker 1: news show on air, Tucker Carlson, California does not get
Speaker 1: the credit it deserves for the corruption that's endemic there.
Speaker 1: It's a one party state and they act like it.
Speaker 1: And You've got to have concerns about whether this recall
Speaker 1: election will be free and fair. Are you concerned, Well,
Speaker 1: of course I'm concerned, Tucker. I'm involved in election integrity
Speaker 1: efforts throughout the United States, and I'm also a member
Speaker 1: of the Republican National Committee. So we have a team
Speaker 1: of lawyers that is ready to deploy throughout the state
Speaker 1: here and we are monitoring things every single day. Just
Speaker 1: a couple of hours ago, I filed a lawsuit to
Speaker 1: intervene in a challenge to the constitutionality of the recall
Speaker 1: statute because, frankly, I don't trust the Secretary of State
Speaker 1: or the Attorney General, who are both appointed by the governor,
Speaker 1: to defend him in this regard, and so we are
Speaker 1: going to be jumping on every potential opportunity to do
Speaker 1: that and fight back against the Democrats. Of course, they
Speaker 1: are playing fast and lews. We've seen some very alarming
Speaker 1: scenes of three D ballots bundled together in the car
Speaker 1: of a person with a gun and some drugs, and
Speaker 1: so we are definitely looking into all of these issues.
Speaker 1: But Tucker, ultimately it's going to come down to how
Speaker 1: much do people want to change in California. And I
Speaker 1: can tell you even living in my latte sipping avocado toast, eating,
Speaker 1: you know, Lululemon wearing neighborhood in San Francisco, people are
Speaker 1: fed up with the crime, the drugs, the homelessness, the
Speaker 1: intermittent electricity, and everything else that is wrong with California.
Speaker 1: So people want to change here. It's just not working.
Speaker 1: And this really is a test of whether our system works.
Speaker 1: I mean, can people get better leadership? That's kind of
Speaker 1: the question. Will there be election observers on the scene
Speaker 1: so the rest of us can know this was fair? Well,
Speaker 1: the problem in California is that the voting doesn't just
Speaker 1: take place on election day like it would in a
Speaker 1: normal place. It takes it's taking place now on a
Speaker 1: rolling basis through mail in voting. It's a hard to
Speaker 1: percent mail in ballots this time around, and it is
Speaker 1: going to take place for thirty days after the election
Speaker 1: if it's close, because they have thirty days to count
Speaker 1: the vote. That's sixty days of voting, and of course
Speaker 1: a lot of shenanigans can occur and ballots can disappear,
Speaker 1: So we are going to be observing it very closely
Speaker 1: and demanding accountability and filing lawsuits wherever we need to
Speaker 1: to hold the Democrats accountable because we cannot trust them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope. So people want to believe the system works,
Speaker 1: that it's real that they have powered their vote matters.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate what you're doing. Harmytal, and thank you.
Speaker 1: A lot of what's said in that last clip is
Speaker 1: either extremely misrepresented or just flat outlines. Those three ballots
Speaker 1: found in a car, we're actually part of a larger
Speaker 1: mail theft thing not related to the election at all.
Speaker 1: Voters have received new ballots and for this election, just
Speaker 1: like the last one, Californians have the option to vote
Speaker 1: in person, to mail in ballots, or deliver them in
Speaker 1: a dropbox. The deadline to drop off mail or place
Speaker 1: your vote is September. Counting cannot start till the fourteenth either,
Speaker 1: and like every election, there will be observers throughout the
Speaker 1: entire counting process. Obviously, this isn't the first time conservative
Speaker 1: media has hyped up election fraud, the last presidential election
Speaker 1: being the biggest instance to date. But what is concerning
Speaker 1: here is that they're setting up a template to use
Speaker 1: for all future elections whenever Republicans lose. Here's a Fox
Speaker 1: clip from September seven. The only thing that will save
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom is voter fraud. So as they say, stay woke,
Speaker 1: pay attention to the voter fraud going on in California
Speaker 1: because it's going to have big consequences not only for
Speaker 1: that state but for upcoming elections. It's safe to assume
Speaker 1: that stop the Steal esque strategies will be used almost
Speaker 1: every time a Republican loses in an election going forward.
Speaker 1: We've seen exactly what this type of rhetoric and propaganda
Speaker 1: leads to, and it ends in blood. There were multiple
Speaker 1: attacks on state capitals during the Stop to Steel rallies
Speaker 1: prior to January six. In some places like Salem, Oregon,
Speaker 1: they succeeded in getting inside the capital. Even if Newsom
Speaker 1: gets to stay in office, there will still be many problems,
Speaker 1: electric conspiracies and the possibility of violence, like January six
Speaker 1: just being one we haven't wanted to righteously defend Newsom here.
Speaker 1: He's a politician and inept in many ways. He deserves
Speaker 1: plenty of criticism, especially on the issues of climate change.
Speaker 1: But the criticism levied at Newsom from the likes of
Speaker 1: Elder in the GOP are based on bigotry, nationalism, and
Speaker 1: climate denial. Newsom should be our punching bag, not theirs.
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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm j Calbern,
Speaker 1: host of deep Cover. Our new season is about a
Speaker 1: lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts,
Speaker 1: We controlled absolutely everything. He brobed judges and even helped
Speaker 1: a hit man walk free, until one day when he
Speaker 1: started talking with the FBI and promised that he could
Speaker 1: take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying
Speaker 1: to figure out why he flipped and what he was
Speaker 1: really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to
Speaker 1: be true. There's gotta be something wrong with this. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't trust that guy. He looks like a little scum,
Speaker 1: big liar, stool pidging. He looked like what he was
Speaker 1: or at. I can say with all certainty I think
Speaker 1: he's a hero because he didn't have to do what
Speaker 1: he did, and he did it anyway. The moment I
Speaker 1: put the wire around the first time, my life was over.
Speaker 1: If it ever got out, they would kill me. In
Speaker 1: the Heartbeat, listen to deep Cover on the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: The Black Effect presents features honest conversations and exclusive interviews,
Speaker 1: a space for artists, everyday people and listeners to amplify, elevate,
Speaker 1: and empower black voices with great conversations. Make sure to
Speaker 1: listen to the Black Effect Presents podcast on I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Greetings and
Speaker 1: welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I
Speaker 1: am a researcher and writer on the podcast team. Today
Speaker 1: we have a roundtable discussion with a group of researchers
Speaker 1: who look into extremism and political political violence that's usually
Speaker 1: stemming from far right propagandists and people in that kind
Speaker 1: of whole sphere. So we have a discussion relating to
Speaker 1: climate change and all these other things. So that I
Speaker 1: was able to record these fine people. It's split up
Speaker 1: into two sections, so part one is coming out today,
Speaker 1: Part two is coming out tomorrow. Highly recommend you listen
Speaker 1: to both, maybe maybe even back to back at some
Speaker 1: point because it does really give a nice, rounded out
Speaker 1: um view of what we were talking about. So, without
Speaker 1: further ado, here is my discussion with I kind of know, well,
Speaker 1: not not a dozen, but of a lot a large
Speaker 1: amount of terrorism researchers. As we are all uh in
Speaker 1: the woods. As you will soon find out, welcome token
Speaker 1: happened here the Daily Show. I am Garrison Davis, and
Speaker 1: I am recording in an undisclosed location in the woods.
Speaker 1: Um we are me and a few a few internet
Speaker 1: colleagues are all hiding from the world for a week
Speaker 1: to reset our poisoned brains. But I'm gonna slightly re
Speaker 1: poison us here for about an hour to have a
Speaker 1: discussion about climate change and terrorism because all we have
Speaker 1: a group of people here who are all well research
Speaker 1: the bad thing online a lot. So I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: to try to use to take advantage of having this
Speaker 1: uh unique group of people all in one location to
Speaker 1: have this nice discussion for you guys. But yeah, specifically
Speaker 1: we want to we want to talk about how we
Speaker 1: how each of us has an you know, quote unquote
Speaker 1: expert in certain fields. Um see climate change im acting
Speaker 1: impacting extremism and terrorism in the next in the next
Speaker 1: few decades. Um. And yes, we are recording in the force.
Speaker 1: So if you hear sounds like we're in the forest,
Speaker 1: that's because we are. Um. You you guys already know me,
Speaker 1: or you probably do. But I'm gonna we're gonna go
Speaker 1: around a circle, probably starting on my left, um, introducing
Speaker 1: the people. And yeah, just give a brief a brief
Speaker 1: brief bio. However detail do you want to get into.
Speaker 1: My name's Matt Taylor. I'm a journalist and researcher focusing
Speaker 1: on cults, um, conspiracy theories, and extremism. And to day
Speaker 1: is my birthday. Happy Birthday, Matt. In the in the past,
Speaker 1: my name's THEO. I am a journalist and researcher as well.
Speaker 1: I mostly focused on the American militia movement and paramilitary groups.
Speaker 1: I'm toothpick Um with THEO, Matt Emmy and Big New Houses.
Speaker 1: Isn't here on terrorism, Bat, that's that's a that's a podcast,
Speaker 1: by the way, self plugged. Um. My research and reporting
Speaker 1: focuses on mainly on conspiracy theories and where that overlaps
Speaker 1: with political extremism and the focus on connections between US
Speaker 1: in Europe, especially Germany. I'm Peter Smith. I'm a journalist
Speaker 1: with the Canadian Anti Hate Network and the host of
Speaker 1: the Unusual Show podcast. I'm Lily and I focus on
Speaker 1: experimism and kind of terrorism and data analysis and I'm Emmy.
Speaker 1: I do digital propaganda and rhetoric. That that that is
Speaker 1: our little crew. Um. Yeah, let's see what the first
Speaker 1: thing we kind of want to talk about, I'm guessing
Speaker 1: is how we see like small because like the podcast
Speaker 1: is more about like smaller local collapses, like we don't
Speaker 1: there's not gonna be one big collaps Where does see
Speaker 1: small things start to fall apart? And how we see
Speaker 1: when small things all apart, what we do we see
Speaker 1: filling in those gaps? Specifically, I think this will tie
Speaker 1: into the militia movement a lot in a lot of ways. UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you guys can start sprouting off your your knowledge. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I've been thinking of
Speaker 1: and following it. I don't now if this has made
Speaker 1: as much of an impact in US media. UM. But
Speaker 1: in the last month UM, parts of Germany and the
Speaker 1: Netherlands experienced UM, really bad flooding UM that that literally
Speaker 1: wiped out some villages and some towns. UM. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that we've seen in Germany is you know,
Speaker 1: far right groups. UM. There isn't really a militia movement
Speaker 1: because it all laws there, but but far right groups
Speaker 1: rushing in UM and collecting aid and going for photo
Speaker 1: ops UH in those catastrophe areas. UM. And what that
Speaker 1: does make me think of And maybe THEO can talk
Speaker 1: more about this guy as we've seen similar stuff in
Speaker 1: the US with the militia moving marking themselves as you know,
Speaker 1: emergency preparedness UM or marking them selves in that way
Speaker 1: and positioning themselves where when you know the government is
Speaker 1: unable to respond, that these groups are able to come
Speaker 1: in UM and also using that for their messaging and
Speaker 1: for their rhetoric. Yeah. So, I mean that is something
Speaker 1: that you see in the US. The biggest example Garrison
Speaker 1: and I talked about this earlier, but during the wildfires
Speaker 1: in Oregon last year, you saw checkpoints being established by
Speaker 1: militia groups, whether all already formed militia groups are kind
Speaker 1: of impromptu armed bands, and you also see that as
Speaker 1: like a big marketing thing. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: the Virginia based militias that I follow went out to
Speaker 1: Tennessee two one or two years ago when the tornadoes happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did a bunch of m H kind of aid
Speaker 1: and photo ops. Yeah. So just not to docks myself,
Speaker 1: but I'm from Nashville. And then, uh, the beginning of
Speaker 1: in March, right before someone just dropped a toy gun.
Speaker 1: Great job, guys. Yeah. So in the beginning of March
Speaker 1: of last year, right before COVID hit Nashville, we had
Speaker 1: a huge tornado go through Nashville itself and wipe out
Speaker 1: like two different neighborhoods and then a rural town right
Speaker 1: outside Nashville. But you saw a lot of like, so
Speaker 1: the community comes together and this really nice display mutual
Speaker 1: aid to do all the cleanup basically before any official
Speaker 1: cruise could get there. But with that you also sell
Speaker 1: like these far right groups coming in for photo ops
Speaker 1: and it just it normalizes their presence in heavily impacted
Speaker 1: areas and it was not not ideal. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of the American militia movement, especially the modern kind of
Speaker 1: post two three strain of it, is predicated on this
Speaker 1: idea of a complete breakdown of order or a loss
Speaker 1: of civil order, however you conceive of that. And um,
Speaker 1: these like climate disasters that are going to hit areas
Speaker 1: are going to kind of provide a self fulfilling prophecy
Speaker 1: for these people to step in and say like, oh no,
Speaker 1: you need some sort of armed force, You need some
Speaker 1: sort of group of people to keep order and to
Speaker 1: keep law in whatever way they conceive of that. I
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting you guys talking about kind of
Speaker 1: like the photo op thing that they do, because when
Speaker 1: the wildfire has happened in Oregon. All of the the
Speaker 1: actual like relief work was done by anti fascists, Like
Speaker 1: we like people in Portland, we set up, you know,
Speaker 1: these these massive camps to help you know, all these
Speaker 1: like you know, much more conservative people who is, who
Speaker 1: have whoa to that wait their evacuate their homes and
Speaker 1: they were all getting fed and all like their closest
Speaker 1: that were coming from anti fascists, and the all the
Speaker 1: right did was do the arm checkpoints thing. But interesting
Speaker 1: that like in the South, where there's less anti fascists,
Speaker 1: like you know, compared to the generals, compared to the
Speaker 1: Portland right, how some of those groups actually do do
Speaker 1: some of the relief effort um and that that's definitely
Speaker 1: not the case up here in the in the West coast.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean last year, I remember a few
Speaker 1: county level militias that I follow in Virginia. We're like
Speaker 1: seriously doing relief work, like they were gathering food, they
Speaker 1: were taking out places affected by flooding in North Carolina
Speaker 1: by tornadoes and Tennessee. It's not I wouldn't go so
Speaker 1: far as to call it mutual aid because it lacks
Speaker 1: the kind of ideological framework for that, but they are
Speaker 1: providing some sort of infrastructure for their guys. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: with with less of like the theory side of mutually.
Speaker 1: But like, and I'm sure there's someone else who can
Speaker 1: speak more on this, but like from my perspective growing
Speaker 1: up in a super weird church, I see this in interacting,
Speaker 1: they see this like combining with local churches a lot
Speaker 1: as well. Um, I'm not sure there's anyone else here
Speaker 1: who could say something more intelligently than me about how
Speaker 1: like religion will combine with these like kind of militia effort. Well,
Speaker 1: I was like eco eco extremists, like on the far right,
Speaker 1: on the very fringe far right, can start to like
Speaker 1: be very esoteric about there, you know, belief in climate change,
Speaker 1: and they start to sort of frame it as like
Speaker 1: our reason for the collapse, Um, that we need collapse,
Speaker 1: are attacking infrastructure, like for the purpose of somehow saving
Speaker 1: the planet, even though it's really not going to get anywhere.
Speaker 1: We really need to We have to do a lot
Speaker 1: of our own work on the planet. We can't just
Speaker 1: destroy everything and see if it work. Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: definitely bring up accelerationists and accelerationism as a as an
Speaker 1: over overarching thing that is, you know, not just it
Speaker 1: not to be like horseshoe theory about it, but the
Speaker 1: accelation is that pops up in a whole whole lot
Speaker 1: of areas, including areas of the left, where it becomes
Speaker 1: very unuseful. Um that can lead to like a lot
Speaker 1: of wasted time and some destructive tendencies. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that point kind of also provides an interesting through
Speaker 1: line between more mainstream militias and like the really esoteric
Speaker 1: brands of eco fascism or ecologically based extremism, is that
Speaker 1: like they're both very influenced by like colonial schools of thought,
Speaker 1: like eco fascism and all that is kind of predicated
Speaker 1: on this idea of like tera nolis, like there is
Speaker 1: this perfect empty wild land that we can have manifest
Speaker 1: destiny exactly, And like so much of the ideas of
Speaker 1: order and um like peacekeeping that you find within more
Speaker 1: mainstream militia movements come from this exact same type of thinking,
Speaker 1: where it's like a colonial order that you need to keep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: people on the left who are in like the kind
Speaker 1: of like you know, green green, like like ecosocialist or
Speaker 1: like green anarchists kind of strange to get very straining
Speaker 1: when people talk about eco fascism, which I can understand
Speaker 1: because no one really means the same thing when they
Speaker 1: talk about it. Sometimes they just mean any like any
Speaker 1: like quote unquote terrorism that has like has like environmental purpose.
Speaker 1: Some people, you know, when they think of eco fascists,
Speaker 1: we think of like overpopulation. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of different things they mean mean by it. But I
Speaker 1: know we we've all had talks about like what we
Speaker 1: personally view as like eco fascism, because it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's not just eco streamism, Like eco streamism does not
Speaker 1: equal fascism. Like there is there's a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: eco extremists who are very anti fascist, um. And there
Speaker 1: is some who kind of bridge bridge the gap, you know,
Speaker 1: like like like id S has some more fascist tendencies,
Speaker 1: But I would not accurately call them fascist based on
Speaker 1: the type of stuff they do, with type of writing
Speaker 1: they do, they do not have, they do not check
Speaker 1: all of the boxes. Um. But then then we do
Speaker 1: have people who I would accurately describe as eco fascists
Speaker 1: who have done who've done you know, mass shootings who
Speaker 1: have a lot of eco who have eco fascist stuff
Speaker 1: either in the writing that they like or their own manifestos.
Speaker 1: They bring enough points it's like, yeah, you kind of
Speaker 1: fall into this broad category. Do someone here want to
Speaker 1: give their personal definition of ego fascism? This isn't this
Speaker 1: not necessarily exactly what we use for the pod, But
Speaker 1: I just I'm interested to Here's a lot of people
Speaker 1: with various backgrounds. Everyone has their own specialized knowledge. What
Speaker 1: kind of when people say that, what, what do you
Speaker 1: kind of put into that category? People believe in like
Speaker 1: this organic law and like natural order, and they believe
Speaker 1: that like there is a natural hierarchy ingrained in everything.
Speaker 1: And I think that generally, like if we return to
Speaker 1: like some kind of primitive society or like, you know,
Speaker 1: they'll assume that like everything has uh it's own structure,
Speaker 1: and that there's going to be people who rise to
Speaker 1: the top, people who just you know, uh don't belong
Speaker 1: in that kind of society. It's going to be really
Speaker 1: damaging for like the elderly, for disabled people. And they
Speaker 1: just sort of see it as like survival of the
Speaker 1: fifth um, And I think that's like a much more
Speaker 1: eco fascist point of view rather than like a more
Speaker 1: green anarchist point of view where things with sort of
Speaker 1: even out um, rather than become a hierarchical Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think hierarchy is an important part of that. And
Speaker 1: how we you know, there is like a lot of
Speaker 1: green anarchist who are focusing on like making their own
Speaker 1: medication for for you know, people with tybies and stuff.
Speaker 1: That's kind of stuff that's like really interesting to look
Speaker 1: at and stuff that we should absolutely pursue because we'll
Speaker 1: become less relianced apply chains. And we don't really see
Speaker 1: ego fascists doing that. We do not see them focusing
Speaker 1: on making medication for people. Oh no, maybe I can
Speaker 1: kind of set some people have to say more stuff
Speaker 1: if I say it was real quickly. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that I always or that that is a
Speaker 1: red flag for me is is just you know, bring
Speaker 1: in this very traditional discussions of gender roles and and
Speaker 1: relating that to the environment. Yeah, of our rhetoric, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't we don't need to say names of specific
Speaker 1: like writers are people, but there's definitely describe the general sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: stop playing with the toy gun. Oh my god, Um,
Speaker 1: just just like establishing and it is kind of it
Speaker 1: can be kind of like an older left thing too,
Speaker 1: but establishing you know, ecological discussions within framework of traditional
Speaker 1: gender roles um and kind of like what is expected
Speaker 1: of people based on their sex. Yeah, this is this
Speaker 1: is this is the dark side of cottage core. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's the one way to put us. I mean you
Speaker 1: want to get in here, oh boy, yeah, I like
Speaker 1: parts of cottage courts, just not want intersects with a
Speaker 1: certain strade of politics, Like queer cottage core is extremely
Speaker 1: cute until yeah, well until you're not queer, and listen,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they still are. Now here's the thing.
Speaker 1: When we're when we're dealing with like traditional gender role stuff,
Speaker 1: it's a really like slippery slope into more aggressive strains
Speaker 1: of thought. So when we're when we're talking about the
Speaker 1: the idea of of the class birthday, it's mass birthday.
Speaker 1: You asked to apologize, Yeah, Rick to the editor, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know. That's so good. So when they're talking about
Speaker 1: the claps and they want, you know, they think the
Speaker 1: rod of modernity will be gone, society will be ended.
Speaker 1: They can they can you know, rebuild from the ground up,
Speaker 1: smaller communities and uh, they can they can build the
Speaker 1: society they want, which is largely no nationalists. It's not great.
Speaker 1: The the idea that there will be this this supertraditional
Speaker 1: family structure. You're going to have your this combined strong
Speaker 1: warrior also homesteading man and your cool trad life who
Speaker 1: never ages above thirty in this society. Like I'm being
Speaker 1: generous here, assuming that at least like some of these
Speaker 1: people have a little bit of like pre planning. But
Speaker 1: they don't. They don't um and they step on each
Speaker 1: other a lot, right because they have this this whole
Speaker 1: plan for this uh, this society free of industry, um,
Speaker 1: and they can't stop posting about it on the internet.
Speaker 1: It's really funny, right, Like they're not they're not good
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, they're like way too addicted to posting
Speaker 1: to like actually commit to like the true off the
Speaker 1: grid trad life. At least at least ten k was
Speaker 1: off the grid. We don't gotta hand it. We don't
Speaker 1: got a hand to it. You want the circumtensis got
Speaker 1: hit pod divided on how much we've got to hand it? Said, Kay,
Speaker 1: the official stands of terrorism bad is a terrorism is bad?
Speaker 1: Why don't we just bring them on. It is kind
Speaker 1: of a concern when they do end up when they
Speaker 1: stop posting. I mean when they're posting, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of more concerning posting sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, if the same
Speaker 1: as like looking at a kid that wants to be
Speaker 1: a firefighter or something like they're just talking. They're not
Speaker 1: going to do it, but you see some of the
Speaker 1: I'm doing it and when they're doing the thing, the
Speaker 1: lifestyle influencer version of fascism. Yeah, do you think that
Speaker 1: it's going to affect kind of like laws about living
Speaker 1: off grid and laws about like for for normal people.
Speaker 1: I just want to get the funk out. I actually
Speaker 1: just read something about this. There's some guy who've been
Speaker 1: living off grade in Pennsylvania for like thirty years and
Speaker 1: I don't remember the details of this, and we don't
Speaker 1: have internet out here. Burn his house down. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: in jail now. He's probably to be in jail for
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. And I think part of
Speaker 1: whether it comes from left through the right as people
Speaker 1: kind of start to try to build resiliency within communities
Speaker 1: for disasters that are coming and start to seek ways
Speaker 1: of living that do not rely on supply chains and
Speaker 1: do not rely on the state. The state will strike
Speaker 1: back against that as a consolidation of power, because the
Speaker 1: more that people move away from it, whether on the
Speaker 1: left or right, the less power the state has. I mean,
Speaker 1: and utilizing counter terrorism an excuse to do so, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they're giving reasons and it's not it's not going
Speaker 1: to get enforced equally. I'm sure the government's gonna gonna
Speaker 1: focus uncertain people doing this and be slightly more okay
Speaker 1: with other people doing it. Um. Well, yeah, what's so?
Speaker 1: I would like to talk about Canada a little bit,
Speaker 1: because specifically climate change affecting Canada's can be very it's
Speaker 1: going to be slightly different, and most of it go
Speaker 1: to the States because I've been I've been I've been
Speaker 1: having my my waist deep in climate science books for
Speaker 1: most of twenty one. Um, and Canada's gonna probably see
Speaker 1: economic boosts um. And they're probably the state's probably just
Speaker 1: gonnaa gap to get act you stronger because of how
Speaker 1: the same thing with Russia. Both Canada and Russia are
Speaker 1: going to get more economically powerful under climate change because
Speaker 1: of how much more props are gonna get moved up.
Speaker 1: How give me your thoughts to canad because in canada's
Speaker 1: my backup plan. It's gonna gets too spicy in the States.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm taking my Canadian passport and hiding in the woods.
Speaker 1: Um how how What's it's interesting to hear you guys
Speaker 1: talk about American millistic culture because we we definitely are
Speaker 1: Rhetoric and propaganda that we see in Canada gets borrowed
Speaker 1: a lot the talking points from the States, like the concepts,
Speaker 1: but what we don't have are these strong organized militia groups.
Speaker 1: We had three per centers for a while, um and
Speaker 1: who still exists, but they were they were big about
Speaker 1: being off right like they were the ones who weren't
Speaker 1: posting for a long time. UM. And it seems like
Speaker 1: as much as all these people are still around, they've
Speaker 1: largely deflated, doubt because Canada has made some some efforts
Speaker 1: to call them terrorists right right. Very recently we designated
Speaker 1: them as a terrorist organization, which doesn't carry a criminal charge.
Speaker 1: But if you if you do something involved with them,
Speaker 1: you send them money like there is there are consequences
Speaker 1: that have legal enhancements, um, but are are kind of
Speaker 1: militia culture focuses on the illegitimacy of the state that
Speaker 1: Canada is founded. It's very kind of soft sit type rhetoric.
Speaker 1: But that Canada's establishment, it's it's rules, and especially with
Speaker 1: all the public health measures, it's this growing, uh, this
Speaker 1: growing kind of tired of thought in both the prairies
Speaker 1: and largely out west. I grew up in Saskatchewan. Um,
Speaker 1: most of my families in Alberta. I know when when
Speaker 1: I look at when I because I keep a soft
Speaker 1: eye on some Canadian hate groups just because I'm Canadian.
Speaker 1: Most of them popped up around Alberta. Um, we're you
Speaker 1: see this stuff kind of like happening, Like do you
Speaker 1: see any of this on the East coast? If so,
Speaker 1: it's smaller or is this mostly on the West coast Canada? Thing? Well,
Speaker 1: that like that conspiratory of thought we've seen kind of
Speaker 1: across the country, Like on the East coast. You know,
Speaker 1: just recently we had people setting up their own version
Speaker 1: of checkpoints um as like a protest against the the
Speaker 1: public health measures, and like the whole eastern part of
Speaker 1: Canada is in its own bubble right now. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you had this the conspiracy based movement forming these actual
Speaker 1: checkpoints and then the main part of it though, is
Speaker 1: probably going to be out west. That is where these
Speaker 1: ideas are the most popular or the most popular. That
Speaker 1: makes sense where mainstream politicians are moving towards, you know,
Speaker 1: amplifying these types of talking points. Do you see that like?
Speaker 1: Is that it is that a mostly Alberta thing. It's
Speaker 1: mostly like prairies Alberta, the farmland. The interesting part is
Speaker 1: that when you talk about groups is like in Canada,
Speaker 1: groups are an urban phenomenon. For the most part, most
Speaker 1: of our organization takes place around the city centers, and
Speaker 1: that is very different from the States. With the States,
Speaker 1: that's it's usually the usually the opposite. In some there's
Speaker 1: there's always exceptions of two minimum people live. But generally
Speaker 1: we see it as more as more of a rule
Speaker 1: thing which teams organized, whereas cities are more like liberal
Speaker 1: and that's what the anti fascist groups are based. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's kind of these like these little ideological pockets
Speaker 1: that exist all over and certainly that sentiment is probably shared,
Speaker 1: but the need to mobilize seems to mostly focus on
Speaker 1: the urban centers, and then we'd never have our groups.
Speaker 1: They don't providing any kind of page that's just or
Speaker 1: even checkpoints like that's beyond these like very recent protest movements.
Speaker 1: You know, there has been no more forest fires around BC, um,
Speaker 1: around you know what Western Alberta. Um. How do you
Speaker 1: see the government's response these types of things right now?
Speaker 1: And it Canada isn't particular situation with um, the Liberals
Speaker 1: having a minority control. Um. You know, the Canadian poems
Speaker 1: parliamentary system is probably confusing to alote Americans that they
Speaker 1: don't understand it already. UM. But yeah, how how what
Speaker 1: do you what do you see on on that front?
Speaker 1: You know, you know just in true both both true
Speaker 1: down Biden talk the talk around like pipelines and stuff,
Speaker 1: but then do the complete opposite. Um. How do you
Speaker 1: could have seen this kind of stuff working right now?
Speaker 1: For for like on the on the climate side of things, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: our our reaction to the firefighters or reaction to the wildfires. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean the government response has always looked at on like,
Speaker 1: it's always looked at poorly. Um. But none of these
Speaker 1: people are taking this as an opportunity to kind of
Speaker 1: change minds and of do pr Um. There's much less
Speaker 1: reaction to it. Most like the West. Also, there's this
Speaker 1: incredible feeling of alienation because of the way that government
Speaker 1: is set up, they have substantially less they have substantially
Speaker 1: less voting power. Yeah, the same way the States, how
Speaker 1: you know, there's like this excelling states with states in
Speaker 1: the Midwest, you feel like they don't really have any
Speaker 1: power politically. The same things for almost the entire East,
Speaker 1: entire West coast of Canada, everything from like Manitoba to Alberta,
Speaker 1: parts of BC. Everyone is very frustrated at at at
Speaker 1: the at the federalise um and how they really don't
Speaker 1: have control for what's happening. Like, yeah, people in the
Speaker 1: East Coast are controlling what what our what our pipelines are,
Speaker 1: what our minds are doing, and that does not fair
Speaker 1: to our workers, because yeah it is. It does suck
Speaker 1: when you know, a mind closes and then everyone in
Speaker 1: a small town is out of business. Like the part
Speaker 1: the part right in Canada, almost Stanley around them, you know,
Speaker 1: used to be you know, bustling small towns that are
Speaker 1: basically all all now ghost towns because stuff to close.
Speaker 1: People have to meet to either like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina
Speaker 1: don't laugh, um, so you know all all these specific things.
Speaker 1: You know, we see pockets of this, we see pockets.
Speaker 1: We see pockets of this and like the Good West
Speaker 1: in the state's deal. Also it's like like manifestest naship
Speaker 1: because like they are a lot of it started with
Speaker 1: people kind of moving outward to try and gain more
Speaker 1: land and make their borders um larger and like live
Speaker 1: further out to like try and uh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: to more territory um and with the like Canadian big
Speaker 1: surgeon like indigenous rights and the big focus and shift
Speaker 1: to like sort of give them land back or so
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly clear on what the Canadian stances are
Speaker 1: on that. Oh, just like I mean, we have a
Speaker 1: big movement from indigenous populations to they seem very like
Speaker 1: the comment like, well there's so many different bands and
Speaker 1: tribes in different types of nations. Um, like we have
Speaker 1: unseated territory, and the dynamics with which the government is
Speaker 1: supposed to deal with and has agreed to deal with
Speaker 1: it actually does deal with them is all vastly different. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that that idea of this focus on these
Speaker 1: particular issues, like indigenous issues, even our attempts to you know,
Speaker 1: have a greener economy, you know for a place that
Speaker 1: for a long time and still is an extraction economy. Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: how does that like a fact the oil company with
Speaker 1: healthcare more like extremist far right groups who want to
Speaker 1: move out that way, um, for the purpose of organizing.
Speaker 1: And you also have the indigenous focus within the liberal government.
Speaker 1: So like, how do those two groups do you think
Speaker 1: like interact? Uh? Like the general conception is that the
Speaker 1: push for indigenous rights, especially on the farther right, is
Speaker 1: is for the digient franchipisement of white Europeans like it
Speaker 1: is um. And then yeah, you do have this Western
Speaker 1: exodus where we have very popular figures who are moving
Speaker 1: further west because they are these stronger ideas of sovereignty. Um.
Speaker 1: I forget what exactly it was pulling, but when the
Speaker 1: Western exit or exit was started, you know, there was
Speaker 1: a significant amount of popular or at least like not
Speaker 1: strong support, but like existing support there was there was
Speaker 1: there was a it was a large amount of support. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see what happens though, talking about collapse,
Speaker 1: like you know in these small towns, in like cloistered communities, um,
Speaker 1: you know, they already feel cut off from the government
Speaker 1: and not represented. And then if you have a breakdown
Speaker 1: of infrastructure, you know, that will create why do we
Speaker 1: even have them in the first place if they're not
Speaker 1: helping us, which is which, which is true, which is
Speaker 1: like a well real thing to think about. But their
Speaker 1: solutions are wildly different than the actual solutions to help people, right.
Speaker 1: And we've already see how this plays out in the
Speaker 1: past as well with um, you know, places where uh,
Speaker 1: the infrastructure starts to break down and then people who
Speaker 1: have weapons kind of become the authority just based on
Speaker 1: the fact that they have more power. Yeah. So one
Speaker 1: of the things that I follow is a lot of
Speaker 1: kind of like the more let's characterize it as as
Speaker 1: boomer esque conspiracy theories, UM, especially with anti vax, anti
Speaker 1: public health measures type thing UM. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that that that really is noticeable to me is
Speaker 1: how much more sovereignties and stuff is creeping up into
Speaker 1: those areas UM and especially you know, they're they're two
Speaker 1: really big examples of you know, if there's an anti
Speaker 1: DAX protest in your city, it's probably one of these
Speaker 1: two networks that both come from Europe UM that I'm
Speaker 1: not going to name right now. UM. And those two
Speaker 1: networks also you know, love to organize over the messaging
Speaker 1: app Telegram, UM and Telegram is tell me if I'm
Speaker 1: stepping in at any Telegram is where you know, so
Speaker 1: much of this ideology, this far right ideology is able
Speaker 1: to cross mix and commingle um. You know, I we
Speaker 1: talked about Telegram in the pods, but people are familiar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have been stepped in it yet keep going yeah,
Speaker 1: adjacent to step but it's yeah, so so I mean, my, my,
Speaker 1: The biggest framework going to talk about this a lot
Speaker 1: is is Telegram as kind of this technological body of
Speaker 1: the cultic milieu because there is so like basically no
Speaker 1: enforcement close to no enforcement on Telegram and so you know,
Speaker 1: these these more malicious actors know that, and they know
Speaker 1: that they can find an audience who is interested in,
Speaker 1: you know, opposing the mainstream conspiratorial thought in these kind
Speaker 1: of like boomer tell boomers on Telegram and conspiracy groups,
Speaker 1: and there are you know, militious actors planning to go
Speaker 1: in and when these people over it. And you know
Speaker 1: a lot of these militious actors are younger people who
Speaker 1: don't have those resources, but they know that they can
Speaker 1: win over these people who do have resources, who own
Speaker 1: land who have savings to kind of like fund that
Speaker 1: movement if yeah, oh, I was just gonna say, I
Speaker 1: do think that the cultic miliuse like a really important
Speaker 1: heuristic for these kind of collapse in areas, because the
Speaker 1: question of what happens when kind of infrastructure and any
Speaker 1: sort of political guidance falls away is governed a lot
Speaker 1: by that, and like this idea that there's there are
Speaker 1: these ideas floating around in our society and once people
Speaker 1: have nothing else turned to, these malicious actors will bring
Speaker 1: this stuff in and uh yeah, to put it simply,
Speaker 1: then we're pretty fucked. Yeah. Telegram also has recently started
Speaker 1: to have to crack down people and UM. Because of that,
Speaker 1: you have this really interesting dichotomy of people who are saying,
Speaker 1: like this means like get ready, get prepared, go off,
Speaker 1: grig gone. And you also have on the other end
Speaker 1: people who are saying, you know, create all type platforms
Speaker 1: and like create UM more like self encryption and like
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to step in right now, yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: but to be able to to speak more peer like
Speaker 1: peer to peer UM resources. And that wraps up part
Speaker 1: one of the Terrorism round Table discussion. Thanks so much,
Speaker 1: for listening. You can find us at happen Here pod
Speaker 1: and cool Zone Media. On all of the socials UM.
Speaker 1: You can find me at Hungry bow Tie UM, and
Speaker 1: you can follow a decent amount of the researchers on
Speaker 1: their podcast at Terrorism Bad, the podcast I think. I
Speaker 1: think it's just at Terrorism Bad anyway. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Part one, Part two drops tomorrow. Stay tuned. This
Speaker 1: is Roxande Gay, host of The Roxanne Gay Agenda, the
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Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This
Speaker 1: is part two of our Terrorism Roundtable discussion. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one already, I would recommend you
Speaker 1: scroll back, listen to the previous episode and then continue
Speaker 1: on from here so you have kind of context to
Speaker 1: what exactly we're talking about. Anyway, this is two of
Speaker 1: our discussion in the Woods. I hope you enjoy. Something
Speaker 1: that I've talked about earlier this year after January six,
Speaker 1: was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was
Speaker 1: the thing? And there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it
Speaker 1: Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know,
Speaker 1: because like if I want to talk about the government's
Speaker 1: response to these things, you know, that's a very government
Speaker 1: thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organized on
Speaker 1: this platform, get into the platform problem gone, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's not how that works. One us talking that
Speaker 1: a little bit. Sure, Um, yeah, so they're getting rid
Speaker 1: of the platform doesn't necessarily help, especially when it's something
Speaker 1: that is important, such as like you know, encrypted communication,
Speaker 1: which is something that more people than just Nazis need um,
Speaker 1: and that resource should not be cut off. And there's
Speaker 1: also kind of a bad precedent to be said if
Speaker 1: the if the government is deciding which uh forms of
Speaker 1: speech it needs to have complete access to. I don't
Speaker 1: love that. Um. The other thing is that if we
Speaker 1: knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they form that networks.
Speaker 1: They're still there, and still they have to do more
Speaker 1: things in person, still there, they're just harder to hard.
Speaker 1: People are absolutely correct when they say D platforming works
Speaker 1: because it works for the platform, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people just want that. A lot of people just don't
Speaker 1: want to see Nazi ship and they're fine with you know,
Speaker 1: D platform and they say this works, and they have
Speaker 1: data to backup that it does work. But it works
Speaker 1: for the platform. But the people still exist, well yeah,
Speaker 1: still boosting their own ship and when they bring up
Speaker 1: building their own all tech platforms. It certainly works in
Speaker 1: the early yeah, yeah, yeah, And there is elements that, yeah,
Speaker 1: D platform is a wider thing can especially for like
Speaker 1: in person stuff. But yeah, for your sort the thing
Speaker 1: you're mentioning, yes it is. It is definitely not not
Speaker 1: that cut and dry, you know, and telegrams really interesting
Speaker 1: because it is kind of this middle space between social
Speaker 1: media and just a messaging app. Yeah. How The thing
Speaker 1: about it too, is that anybody can look at these
Speaker 1: you know, the public channels, so without without saying anything
Speaker 1: in the chance, so people could be kind of completely invisible. Nobody,
Speaker 1: like nobody knows that they're there. They're watching this stuff,
Speaker 1: and they're still getting the same messaging, they're still getting
Speaker 1: the same dates for protests, they're still like organizing, but
Speaker 1: they can be uh, sort of just subscribe to a
Speaker 1: channel and you don't even need to be subscribed, you cause, yeah,
Speaker 1: just looking into and getting that flow of information without
Speaker 1: ever having like formal organizing so to speak. So it's
Speaker 1: really hard to say that like, you know, these people
Speaker 1: planned this because there's a lot of plausible deniability and
Speaker 1: there's anybody was involved. There's so much easy hyper linking
Speaker 1: between groups and channels and everything, so it's so easy
Speaker 1: for someone to move between ideology and to go from
Speaker 1: kind of like the base level ship into the much
Speaker 1: deeper stuff extremely quick, very quick. Yeah, really quick. Well,
Speaker 1: that's like that's good design. That's good for them about
Speaker 1: telegram is that you have all of the people that
Speaker 1: are vulnerable to let's say, new ideas in one place.
Speaker 1: That's exactly if you're trying to plan a collapse, you're
Speaker 1: going to need a lot more people than the numbers
Speaker 1: that the people who want the collaps actually have. So
Speaker 1: the easiest way to kind of move things along is
Speaker 1: desert inserting their ideas and their discourses and kind of
Speaker 1: altering the vibe of certain digital environments manually until they
Speaker 1: have um, what we can kindly call cannon fodder. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or even starting their own and saying like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a maga platform and it's actually just you know,
Speaker 1: a bunch of bunch of acceleration ISS made made it
Speaker 1: to recruit them because saw attempts of this with like
Speaker 1: Q and on of people who are way more coleation
Speaker 1: is trying to use people. It was successful and the
Speaker 1: people died. You're I mean that And then also you've
Speaker 1: got like like the idea of the boogaloo right that's
Speaker 1: being co opted to try to appeal to leftists, And
Speaker 1: I mean there's a really good article by Left Coast
Speaker 1: Right Watch that goes into one of those chats and
Speaker 1: they're basically like, yeah, really try to push these ideas
Speaker 1: of really try to push talking points like black lives
Speaker 1: matter and all this, we want to get these protesters
Speaker 1: on our side. And then you also have um, some
Speaker 1: blatant like white supremacist groups who are all using the
Speaker 1: boogaloos And how much of that too is like how
Speaker 1: largen that is sort of real genuine like I am
Speaker 1: not racist, I believe in black lives matter, Like I
Speaker 1: want to be part of this even though I'm a
Speaker 1: bog or like how much of it also is um
Speaker 1: kind of reminiscent of what we were talking about yesterday,
Speaker 1: And I also don't want to step in it. But
Speaker 1: like with you know, the idea of from Anson of
Speaker 1: like Helter Skelter and like causing that race where it's
Speaker 1: like they what they would do is like try and
Speaker 1: frame black people for it and say like this was
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and how much of it is saying
Speaker 1: like this is black lives matter are and they want
Speaker 1: people to see that after they do. The boogleloo groups
Speaker 1: that showed up in Portland in January in July when
Speaker 1: the particular fads were happening, now that they showed up
Speaker 1: and we're all like, yeah, we're here to support black
Speaker 1: lives matter and stand against the federal government and stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: And they had some very suspicious patches that it took
Speaker 1: me up took me about a year to figure out
Speaker 1: what they were. And it's like this accelerationist like, um,
Speaker 1: it ties into whole bunch of like eco fascist propaganda
Speaker 1: stuff um and yeah, like they're they're saying these things,
Speaker 1: well they have these very obscure patches, um and yeah,
Speaker 1: this is an important reason why we need people who
Speaker 1: are not very smart, like I will say, Jimmy dor
Speaker 1: who puts these gives these people platforms are some of
Speaker 1: the worst and are going to cause a lot of
Speaker 1: problems because they have no idea what they're doing or
Speaker 1: they know what they're doing, and they're just bad. And
Speaker 1: like that Boogleo thing kind of serves a twofold purpose
Speaker 1: in that you can bring people who self identify as
Speaker 1: leftists into the movement, but you also have a really
Speaker 1: good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was a big
Speaker 1: thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things first popped off,
Speaker 1: and like recently was getting burned down and suddenly people
Speaker 1: on the internet start losing their minds about the umbrella.
Speaker 1: Guys at the and there was a guy who was indicted.
Speaker 1: He was a boo boo boy who was indicted for
Speaker 1: um like headlines said, burning down the precinct. He fired
Speaker 1: a weapon. He fired a gun on like near the
Speaker 1: wall exactly. And so that at the same time takes
Speaker 1: away agency from left wing movement and the States able
Speaker 1: to be like, look, see, it's just okay to crack
Speaker 1: down on them because they're all, you know, wild white
Speaker 1: supremacists exactly, just from any autonous room with the forms
Speaker 1: of the people in the community. But isn't that we
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily for to his left is just piste off people.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we saw in every single you know,
Speaker 1: everybody perfect the young kids who are sucking piste off
Speaker 1: and are going to go smash it. And it's like saying,
Speaker 1: all of this is people from outside of the town.
Speaker 1: It's like, I never sign agitators. Yeah, it's a tale
Speaker 1: as old as time, Like outside agitator has been used
Speaker 1: since before this. It's a very old state talking point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are you going to say that? Um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say. Also, it's somewhat related to that. We're
Speaker 1: talking about using like human on his cannon fodder and
Speaker 1: it also ties into the sab sit conversation we're having.
Speaker 1: So my research I special are not specialized. I focus
Speaker 1: on Christian identity, this white supremacist ideology and how specifically
Speaker 1: how it's grown since the nineties until now through like
Speaker 1: the Internet and all that fun stuff. This whole point
Speaker 1: they've been pushing lately is to like there this with
Speaker 1: Christian identity. The whole thing is they are preparing for
Speaker 1: the apocalypse, which they call the tribulations, and they see
Speaker 1: modern see I folks see the boogaloo as like the
Speaker 1: tribulation that's coming. So what they're trying to do is
Speaker 1: go off grid and really try to like establish this
Speaker 1: new land or like to protect their kids and everything
Speaker 1: from like pollution and all that ship, but also to
Speaker 1: be away from the collapse and be able to start
Speaker 1: buy it. And then while they're doing all that, like
Speaker 1: prepping homesteads and the compounds and stuff, they're also like
Speaker 1: pushing like election fraud conspiracies and all that on like
Speaker 1: Q and on in the maggot crowd. Not because they
Speaker 1: believe it, not because yeah, right, they don't believe it.
Speaker 1: They know it's bullshit, but they can use it to
Speaker 1: accelerate collapse, just like January say, yes exactly, I mean
Speaker 1: when I mean there are groups when Joe Biden won
Speaker 1: the presidency or won the election, whatever, some groups being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I really try to push this theory of this conspiracy
Speaker 1: about election produd, even if you even if you don't
Speaker 1: believe in it, just push it because that helps our cause. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's that's something to be really mindful of too.
Speaker 1: Forgot where else I was going with that. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of them don't mean what they say. They'll
Speaker 1: say things that will push other people to do something
Speaker 1: that they don't necessarily want to do. And that's a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of Like during January six, so
Speaker 1: much excitement because they could see that the Q and
Speaker 1: on crowd are actually mobilizing, and so they said to them,
Speaker 1: like to themselves, like, you know, get them, get the
Speaker 1: mobilizing for the white race, get the mobilizing for you know,
Speaker 1: our cause. And they've really successfully been able to infiltrate
Speaker 1: that and be able to get some people on board
Speaker 1: with some of it just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I talked about this on our podcast, but
Speaker 1: you could see it like I reported on January six
Speaker 1: in person, and like you could watch it happen. Someone
Speaker 1: with a skull mask on or proud boy or an
Speaker 1: oath keeper would literally come back from the police line,
Speaker 1: grab a group of people, yell something at them about
Speaker 1: que and On or the storms upon us, and throw
Speaker 1: them up to that riot line and until they got
Speaker 1: did a really good did a really good visual investigation
Speaker 1: of how those extremistcupes you used mega people in quan
Speaker 1: On people as their foot soldiers. Qu A folk q
Speaker 1: A didn't really get break down their podcast. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's also with I mean not to link everything the
Speaker 1: Christian identity, which I have a tendency to do, but
Speaker 1: it's it's very ideologically similar to q and On, like
Speaker 1: from a Christianity point of view, Like that's quan On
Speaker 1: is like so close to the edge of Christian identity.
Speaker 1: It's very scary. Actually I talked about it on Jake
Speaker 1: hammer Hens Q Clarance podcast. But it there's also like
Speaker 1: not only trying to accelerate things through them, but also
Speaker 1: trying to recruit them through these like very very similar
Speaker 1: talking points about like the Synagogue of Satan and all that,
Speaker 1: saying that Christian identity is an entry point for some
Speaker 1: of them. Some of them bring it up as an
Speaker 1: entry point into further like accelerationist Nazi ship. But like
Speaker 1: they will start with Christian identity because I think that
Speaker 1: it's more practical to people who already believe in Q
Speaker 1: and on. Yeah, exactly, Will was saying these There's a
Speaker 1: lot of this comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies
Speaker 1: and anti vax groups, and you're not going to be
Speaker 1: able to get you know, Mimon pap Pap into like
Speaker 1: wotonism or something like that if you try hard enough change.
Speaker 1: But like Christianity is something that's palatable, it's something that's
Speaker 1: normal to them, and as you can kind of slowly
Speaker 1: tweak it through to it on, you can get them
Speaker 1: to this much warp stream. Talk about Christian identity. I
Speaker 1: think we should, like, maybe Matt, you could define it
Speaker 1: Christian identity. It's this radical offshoot of Christianity that sees
Speaker 1: all white people as the true Israelites from the Bible um.
Speaker 1: And they also think Jewish people are all literally the
Speaker 1: spawn of Satan. There's this really dumb theory they came
Speaker 1: up with and like kind of rewrote the whole Bible
Speaker 1: off of called can I name Zoka okay dual seed
Speaker 1: line theory where they say, like the story if you
Speaker 1: know about like Adam and even all that they had
Speaker 1: can enabled. Right, So they see um Kane was the
Speaker 1: offspring of Eve and the devil and he was literally
Speaker 1: the spawn of Satan and then he intermingled with all
Speaker 1: these races that were there before Adam and Eve and
Speaker 1: created this demonic race. And it's really really fucking dumb,
Speaker 1: but it's still here. It's been here for It's probably
Speaker 1: gonna keep going. It's gonna get worse calling it now,
Speaker 1: it's gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, and the whole
Speaker 1: thing is they essentially like worship like a Nazi Jesus.
Speaker 1: They see Jesus only was really only talking to the
Speaker 1: white race, and that Christianity and like God only is
Speaker 1: able to be perceived by the white race. And before
Speaker 1: you start laughing at people, because yes, it does sound
Speaker 1: very silly, keep in mind that these are extremely dangerous,
Speaker 1: like right, this is this is one problem with two
Speaker 1: and on when liberals just start laughing about how crazy
Speaker 1: it is and then they're so surprised at January six,
Speaker 1: we're like no, no, like it's yeah, like they're actually dangerous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you've mentioned in a lot and he's appecially that
Speaker 1: it's been mentioned in various manifestos linked to actually has
Speaker 1: warned very like organized, like I mean, historically it's a
Speaker 1: big part of like with Christian identity with a lot
Speaker 1: of these kind of like a lot of them based
Speaker 1: their like whole historical context of like arianism on this
Speaker 1: rewriting of history based on um a fake study that
Speaker 1: was done in Nazi Germany about uh where some proto
Speaker 1: Indo European languages came from. And so they believe that
Speaker 1: like white people came from uh an area that's you know,
Speaker 1: you could generally say it's sort of near the Black Sea, um,
Speaker 1: and that it's based on this like strange idea that
Speaker 1: like Sanskrit is not the oldest language, but like are
Speaker 1: you funny the gun at me because I'm stepping in you.
Speaker 1: I think it actually is useful And yeah, there there
Speaker 1: is actual because they really tried to push this, They
Speaker 1: made um a lot of fake studies that you could
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time researching this and believe that
Speaker 1: it's true, um, because there's just so much written about
Speaker 1: it and I think this is like a tactic that
Speaker 1: they really tend to do with historical revisionism. A lot
Speaker 1: is just crank out essay after essay, even if it's wrong,
Speaker 1: even if it's totally like based on false data or
Speaker 1: just skew it doesn't data. If they don't care, they
Speaker 1: just write about it, and that they think that like
Speaker 1: having more written about it makes it more legitimate. And
Speaker 1: if that's what we are talking have been talking about
Speaker 1: this this whole time we've been not recording, is there's
Speaker 1: just an overflow of content that is so easy to access,
Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily from these specifics they're talking about,
Speaker 1: just from the further right. In general, I just overflow
Speaker 1: the content. It's like always the top ship on Facebook.
Speaker 1: To give an idea of how pervasive, even that idea
Speaker 1: of like where Indo European languages came from, Like when
Speaker 1: I still went to college, I took the Religions of
Speaker 1: South Asia course and we had to spend like multiple
Speaker 1: days where a professor went through these myths about like
Speaker 1: what was the Arian invasion, which like was there are
Speaker 1: Arian people that that is a thing historically, yes, they're
Speaker 1: not white people, but like going through a definition of
Speaker 1: white people. Sure they think of arianism as like referring
Speaker 1: to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but like in a university course,
Speaker 1: we still had to go through and like debunk these
Speaker 1: myths because they've gotten so pervasive within the culture. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And another thing I want to say is that how
Speaker 1: of these more entry level conspiracy ideas, it is hard
Speaker 1: to over emphasize how small the spaces between the entry
Speaker 1: level stuff and the much harder stuff. You can have
Speaker 1: an extremely extremely you know, I'll give I'll give an example.
Speaker 1: I went to you know, I was reporting on an
Speaker 1: anti vax protest and they went straight into talking about
Speaker 1: New World Order and and Project locks, Lockstep and and
Speaker 1: the raw Childs and the builderers and like the Sabbatines
Speaker 1: and David Ice ship just me and this is this
Speaker 1: is the middle of the day, and like a metropolitan
Speaker 1: area with a bunch of boomers and trump hats who
Speaker 1: are getting this like hardcore ship pumped at them or
Speaker 1: you uh, we sell that a lot. With the national
Speaker 1: bombing to like immediately it was like, oh, it was
Speaker 1: actually an attack on dominion. And also it was orchestrated
Speaker 1: by the roths Childs to destroy evidence of voter for
Speaker 1: I forgot that. And then also there was a whole like,
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of stuff that came up later
Speaker 1: as a big conspiracy that it was actually a missile strike.
Speaker 1: I had to talk my grandpa down from that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there was a video that circulated for a while
Speaker 1: about then I had to get into a conversation with
Speaker 1: my grandpa, but at the time was super isolated because
Speaker 1: of COVID and that's a whole yeah, And I had
Speaker 1: to like talk him down and show him like, no,
Speaker 1: here's uh, here's a video from somebody I knew who
Speaker 1: was like somewhat in the area and saw the explosion
Speaker 1: and like in there was not a missile anywhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the data studies that I've done is UM
Speaker 1: and worked on is using big pool and small pool
Speaker 1: discord servers of far right extremists UM, far right militia
Speaker 1: groups and UM very very accelerationist skull mass that networks
Speaker 1: UM and looking at the big pools and the small
Speaker 1: pools and seeing the app mentioned between them. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there was not one person who was more than three
Speaker 1: notes away from anybody else. It's very it can't be
Speaker 1: overstated how close people are from entry to very very
Speaker 1: very extreme h types of goals and explicit ideologies that
Speaker 1: explicitly pushed violence. And another point I want to bring
Speaker 1: up is um like, yeah, there's been much said about
Speaker 1: Qunan isn't going away, It's just not called quan On anymore.
Speaker 1: With with these anti vax mobilizations, those mobilizations and groups
Speaker 1: aren't going away. They're just going to continue to shift
Speaker 1: in a ball of their focus and the stay you're
Speaker 1: planning for it like they've they've they've they've designed it
Speaker 1: that way. So I sometimes I find the normal stuff first,
Speaker 1: sometimes I find the crazy stuff first. But I mean
Speaker 1: not even that long ago, I came across a particular
Speaker 1: social media profile that was explicitly calling for acts of
Speaker 1: terror and attempting to organize acts of terror and displaying
Speaker 1: acts of terror, which is like an immediate for the
Speaker 1: one that needs to be dealt with. However, they had
Speaker 1: multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and on
Speaker 1: their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson stuff like
Speaker 1: things that your grandparents are going to watch right like,
Speaker 1: and that is done on purpose to try to like
Speaker 1: siphon people out of um. More quote unquote mainstream versions
Speaker 1: of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start
Speaker 1: exploding things, and even even more even more, let's say
Speaker 1: left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this is what
Speaker 1: does and it's not. You know, conspiracy theories are not
Speaker 1: solely a thing of the right, which which takes me
Speaker 1: off to no end. No, I just want to back
Speaker 1: you up on that, Like I think there's this maybe
Speaker 1: this like implicit idea that the left is immune to
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories when it very much is. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to emphasize that point. That idea that of like
Speaker 1: never being that far from the serious stuff is something
Speaker 1: that's really really observable, even beyond like a data level.
Speaker 1: I used to like consult with local newsrooms on how
Speaker 1: to report on things, and one of the big points
Speaker 1: I always tried to drill in was like, if you
Speaker 1: fuck this up and you frame this the wrong way,
Speaker 1: it will have consequences. And if this is stepping in
Speaker 1: it too much, we can come but like the um
Speaker 1: Dylan Roof. Dylan Roof started his journey to radicalization by
Speaker 1: reading about Trayvon Martin in local news websites and local newspapers,
Speaker 1: and then googling black on white crime and his first
Speaker 1: result exactly and like it does not It did not
Speaker 1: take long for him to go from I am reading
Speaker 1: local news articles that are framed this specific way to
Speaker 1: im killing people. That's not normal, of course, like a
Speaker 1: lot of people are not going to be reading local
Speaker 1: news and then suddenly start to think this way, but
Speaker 1: like there is a concerted effort by some very specific
Speaker 1: people who would like to make that pathway easier. It's
Speaker 1: what's interesting because we don't we can't like define it
Speaker 1: really as terrorism. What are they doing. They're really just
Speaker 1: they're just saying things. They're just encouraging people to do things,
Speaker 1: and like they're not like they're not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 1: We can't really call it terrorism. The most dangerous people
Speaker 1: in this game are usually not the ones doing the shooting,
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes trying to go on these paths
Speaker 1: in the first looking for people who are willing and
Speaker 1: then so they see somebody reading local news maybe and
Speaker 1: they want to make that pathway easier for to go
Speaker 1: from local news to Dylan Ruth like because that's not
Speaker 1: a normal jump, but they really want to find people
Speaker 1: who are looking at local news like that, and then
Speaker 1: say to them like, well, okay, you look at this.
Speaker 1: Now look at that trying to try respect to climate change.
Speaker 1: How do you see do you see a similar pathway
Speaker 1: instead of instead of some of googling no black white crime,
Speaker 1: like googling stuff about collapse and and like modern modern civilization.
Speaker 1: Eric Stryker, I don't know. Eric Striker has been on
Speaker 1: about this, and I think that he's a i mean
Speaker 1: relatively like middle point that people get to like fairly
Speaker 1: like average people do listen to things like Eric Stryker
Speaker 1: entry level explicit Nazi and another thing, cut me off
Speaker 1: if we don't want to go in this direction. But
Speaker 1: you know, one of the biggest places where we see
Speaker 1: young people getting into conspiracy theories is TikTok alright, TikTok
Speaker 1: that cut that cut that we're not we're not cutting that.
Speaker 1: That is that is with the pod. Yeah. The biggest
Speaker 1: entry points seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing is this, our upcoming climate scenario is
Speaker 1: going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so. I mean we were talking about how like
Speaker 1: the mythology of like like black on white crime and
Speaker 1: all this stuff they're trying to create a situation that,
Speaker 1: you know, with the urgency that justifies fascism, which on
Speaker 1: its own is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis,
Speaker 1: climate change is the existential threat that they've been trying
Speaker 1: to artificially create, and they no longer have to. They
Speaker 1: now get to skip a lot of steps and save
Speaker 1: a lot of energy by just planning at the fact
Speaker 1: that everything is literally on fire and that like that
Speaker 1: that makes it so much quicker. State, we have to
Speaker 1: do something. We have all the guns. Now would be
Speaker 1: a great time to join it on our power. This kid,
Speaker 1: this this is our bym Our era hyperinflation type ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is like when you're when you can't
Speaker 1: get food from the grocery store anymore because of supply
Speaker 1: chain problems, or when everything around you is on fire.
Speaker 1: You don't need like a grace, you don't need a
Speaker 1: great replacement theory, you don't need anything. You don't need
Speaker 1: to say that the rothschilds are behind you. You haven't
Speaker 1: just need to wait. You have you have enough things
Speaker 1: that you experience yourself, and it's much scarier when you
Speaker 1: can't because I can't like like how do we how
Speaker 1: do we stop? Yeah, I can't find it's harder. Well,
Speaker 1: it's literally on fire. It's it's a problem and something
Speaker 1: needs to be done about it. I don't like your solution,
Speaker 1: but something needs to happen. So what what what do
Speaker 1: you think on this path? And this is gonna get
Speaker 1: a whole lot more speculative, like what can we do
Speaker 1: to make people falling down those pathways less often? Like like, yes,
Speaker 1: that is that, that's that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: we're trying to do on the pot is making sure
Speaker 1: that people do not fall fold down the the doom
Speaker 1: pathway because yeah, this that that does get people along
Speaker 1: down logical like against like like against most types of extremism.
Speaker 1: Eco extremism is mostly logical. Like you look at it
Speaker 1: and you say, we need a radical change right now,
Speaker 1: and that's correct. Um, it's just the way that they
Speaker 1: go about it is very, very different, and that's why,
Speaker 1: like you know, eco fascism is very different. It's its
Speaker 1: own type of eco extremism. And there's green anarchy that's
Speaker 1: a very different type of eco extremism. Like these are
Speaker 1: all different parts of something that almost has the same
Speaker 1: goals but wants to go about them very very, very differently,
Speaker 1: and it's so easy to just look around and see
Speaker 1: how everything's on fire, and I think like the government's
Speaker 1: doing nothing about it. The government starts doing something about it,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly it's the state's two bigs. We're in communism,
Speaker 1: you know. So they all of like different goals and
Speaker 1: it's very conflicting on how to how to deal with
Speaker 1: and like even the very from tactics between green anarchy
Speaker 1: and like fascistic you extreamism. They also will get two
Speaker 1: different end fools, right, like you like your your basic
Speaker 1: amprim what's a very different life than you're you know,
Speaker 1: very you know, very stepping in it pilled fascist? Right,
Speaker 1: A collapse can only benefit the right. A collapse can
Speaker 1: only benefit the people who already have power, who already
Speaker 1: able bodied, who already stocked up on guns, who already like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't frustrate me with their being anarchists who are
Speaker 1: like rooting for the collapse because you're not gonna win,
Speaker 1: like you're just going to be somewhere on the wall. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: they've got very strict ideas of which people count as
Speaker 1: human and the goal of the majority of fascist movements
Speaker 1: is to you know, purge the ranks of the people
Speaker 1: they see is lesser, and they have they have, they
Speaker 1: have very precise ideas about who they plan on letting
Speaker 1: to survive the collapse. So let's let's I think it's
Speaker 1: time to start talking about and tell me if I'm
Speaker 1: taking this in the long direction. You know what the
Speaker 1: funding someone do? Who's listening to this? Yeah? No, stop recycling,
Speaker 1: it's all getting buried in the Oregan force. Just vote.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what made you start local? Find a
Speaker 1: local group, find a local direct action group. Investigate that
Speaker 1: group and see who is behind it. But find start locally.
Speaker 1: It has to start at the local level, because when
Speaker 1: should I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna say if the
Speaker 1: collapse comes or like or no, not the collapse like local,
Speaker 1: local collapses. There's anyway disasters, Confucio disasters are gonna affect
Speaker 1: at the local level. Talk to your talk to your neighbors,
Speaker 1: talk to your family, Like, try to get your family
Speaker 1: on these paths that lead to helping your neighbors instead
Speaker 1: of you know, making friends with the church militia. Before
Speaker 1: you buy a gun, learn how to fucking garden, but
Speaker 1: buying a gun and that sort of thing is is good.
Speaker 1: It's good to know how to use firearms, basic biency preparedness. Yes,
Speaker 1: but learn learn how to put on our turn to
Speaker 1: learn how to feed yourself, learn how to grows some
Speaker 1: fucking food. Learn how to cook that fucking food. Get
Speaker 1: in effect all that comes before, like you get to
Speaker 1: be a fallout character. Yeah, oh yeah, an individual first
Speaker 1: aid kit. You can buy them on the stores. You can.
Speaker 1: You can buy them and like some pawn shops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like North American Rescue or North River Rescue. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we'll find about. I text more on the poduct.
Speaker 1: Well there, Look, there are two big things. One, we
Speaker 1: all have a moral obligation to consistently counter the black
Speaker 1: pill doom er ship. Everything is coming to an end,
Speaker 1: like it doesn't have to. That's optional. Like things are
Speaker 1: going to get bad, but there's degrees of that. We
Speaker 1: can stop it from being. You don't need civilizational great,
Speaker 1: we don't need civilization to end like that can be done.
Speaker 1: Step two. We also have an obligation to counter the
Speaker 1: individualist stuff and and and focus our efforts more towards
Speaker 1: towards community and relationships. That is so so important because
Speaker 1: every idiot that's gonna buy a gunna have a bunker,
Speaker 1: not only is not going to make it, that's gonna
Speaker 1: screw the rest of us. Like this has to be
Speaker 1: a communal effort and almost civilization thing, Like we do
Speaker 1: need civilization to change, like we need human society, as
Speaker 1: we lay out we as has a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: I understand people's critiques of human civilization. We still need
Speaker 1: a society, but yeah, we we need we need places
Speaker 1: that you know, people are going to catherine and people
Speaker 1: you know, provide the things that we have. Um. I
Speaker 1: noticed that that can be a loaded word on certain
Speaker 1: political circles. So I'm not you know, we're not getting
Speaker 1: into like civilization theory and that kind of anything. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, I would argue any ideology or ideas
Speaker 1: just the boogaloo that uh kind of hypes up a
Speaker 1: collapse is generally one you should stay away from anything
Speaker 1: that makes the collapse sound like it makes it sound
Speaker 1: sexy and personal story as I think it's important to remember,
Speaker 1: Like if there was some massive civil conflict that happened,
Speaker 1: I think the people who would suffer the most or
Speaker 1: the noncombatants to deal with it. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't talk about kind of episode of terrorism bad. Um,
Speaker 1: well we'll do plugs of the end. Hold put the
Speaker 1: gun back in your pants, just together. I was talking
Speaker 1: about historical precedent earlier, about things we've seen in the
Speaker 1: past with collapses and how people with guns and people
Speaker 1: who with training end up being the ones who gained power. Um.
Speaker 1: Something that like I was specifically reading about that was, um,
Speaker 1: like the Rwandan genocide. If you know, it was just
Speaker 1: the three months where most of the Fitsie people were
Speaker 1: wiped out. Um, there are conflicting numbers, so I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna specifically say any but um, you know the more
Speaker 1: recently like this year. Earlier this year, Um was only
Speaker 1: when Rwanda admitted what it was, that it was a genocide.
Speaker 1: And um, the people the armed forces were the ones
Speaker 1: who became like the the leaders and then they were
Speaker 1: backed by the government. That can't happen in America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like it can't happen here though we are
Speaker 1: we are immune to this in our spot of the world.
Speaker 1: Call it will not happen here. And the other thing
Speaker 1: is look at where you get your information from. Seriously,
Speaker 1: no matter who you are, take a long, hard look
Speaker 1: at who you get your even if you're on the left,
Speaker 1: especially if you're you're on the left. You know, if
Speaker 1: you want to hear about something that's happening in an area,
Speaker 1: look at the people who are actually on the ground
Speaker 1: reporting with people. Don't just rely on like news aggregators.
Speaker 1: Especially on Twitter. There's been a lot of bad, very
Speaker 1: bad faith news degreators on Twitter who are posing a leftist.
Speaker 1: This has been a huge problem. Even leftists who just
Speaker 1: don't do that, You just do a very bad job.
Speaker 1: People call themselves like car extremism or counters and researchers,
Speaker 1: and they are really talking about anti They say that
Speaker 1: they are kind of extremism researchers, and they pose that
Speaker 1: way and they look sometimes like they could be sometimes
Speaker 1: like that they're not, but like you know, vary varying
Speaker 1: degrees of like legitimacy, but like they focus only on
Speaker 1: like the left wing stuff. They don't think they don't
Speaker 1: see it has to be this idea of like keeping
Speaker 1: it balanced right, like not making it just like a
Speaker 1: far right issue, which I would argue, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of other people would that this kind of stuff
Speaker 1: is more concerning issue and there is like merit definitely
Speaker 1: to looking at left acceleration, which is not for the record,
Speaker 1: left accelerationism is not talking about anti fascists. But um,
Speaker 1: it's really not time to get like well, I mean,
Speaker 1: left accelerations will be will be its own effort. But
Speaker 1: what what some people do posing as um, you know,
Speaker 1: people who have credibility and are able to um kind
Speaker 1: of sway opinion, They are not really doing what they
Speaker 1: say that they're doing. They're really just trying to shift
Speaker 1: the narrative of of racially motivated violent extremism, which is
Speaker 1: a big obviously to being like BLM is racially motivated
Speaker 1: violent extremism, and they want to push that narrative further
Speaker 1: and further. I think let's look, leok, let's go, let's
Speaker 1: kind of probably start to like wrap up and say
Speaker 1: our final thoughts on you know, this whole this whole topic. UM,
Speaker 1: I know, we we didn't. We didn't. We did not
Speaker 1: we did we did not get to talk about like
Speaker 1: eco defense very much. Anyone has any flinal thoughts on
Speaker 1: that and how they see it kind of growing and
Speaker 1: how they see the state's response to it. Um, that
Speaker 1: might be worth briefly mentioning, but yeah, kind of, let's
Speaker 1: kind of go around in a circle and give kind
Speaker 1: of everyone's you know, final thoughts on the on the subjects. Um,
Speaker 1: I think collapse is bad, and I think that well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's my main my main thing. But anything
Speaker 1: that's appealing to you and on like an ecological level
Speaker 1: that's collapse related to something you should be very wary of.
Speaker 1: And I think you should be way very wary of,
Speaker 1: like generally everything. I feel like that's kind of like
Speaker 1: a butcher, be careful about everything. Um. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: in my opinion, idea of total collapse is very misleading
Speaker 1: because it's easy and disasters don't work like that. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna suddenly reset one day. Um, everything is going
Speaker 1: to suck and you're going to need to fight for
Speaker 1: whatever semblance of a society that you want to see
Speaker 1: in the world. Talk to your fucking neighbors, that kind
Speaker 1: of people in your city, in your neighborhood. There are
Speaker 1: people doing good it in whatever city town you live in.
Speaker 1: Most likely, if not, you can start it. Look at
Speaker 1: your local mutual aid network, look at the people who
Speaker 1: are taking action around and get involved seriously. You know,
Speaker 1: it could be going out into a park Saturday mornings
Speaker 1: and just like giving out food, talking to the people
Speaker 1: who are most affective people seriously, if every one is
Speaker 1: a person, you need to talk to touch graphs to
Speaker 1: people if you need, like the most basic thing to
Speaker 1: start on any sort of mutual aid work, trying to
Speaker 1: find a food not bomb chapter in your They're well organized,
Speaker 1: they're easy to join. You don't have to put on
Speaker 1: block and fight a cop. It's yeah, it's a good
Speaker 1: entry point and it's it's great. It's great training for
Speaker 1: for disaster relief. If you have money and you want
Speaker 1: to help, seriously, just give pass to on house, people
Speaker 1: in the street, give money, give money to people, give
Speaker 1: money directly to people. Yep. Uh. My last thoughts are
Speaker 1: just that I think the idea of collapse or whether
Speaker 1: actual collapse themselves, environmental or otherwise, will always be something
Speaker 1: to a rally behind, Like it is always an entry
Speaker 1: point as well as motivator from from all for all sides,
Speaker 1: from all sides, um. But it's like when these things
Speaker 1: become very silent, like was mentioned before, when they're outside
Speaker 1: of your door, that's when you know, that's when like
Speaker 1: the ideology kind of hits the pavement. Like what is
Speaker 1: actually going to play out, what is actually gonna happen,
Speaker 1: and how that's gonna affect people. It's very real. So
Speaker 1: building community, you know, building connections, um, and just understanding
Speaker 1: you know, who is in your community. It's probably one
Speaker 1: of the most important things. Yeah, the idea of collapse
Speaker 1: is a romantic and ridiculous notion. Uh come up with
Speaker 1: people who are like really into like apocalyptic thinking and
Speaker 1: the version of themselves if they get to be the
Speaker 1: main character. So first and foremost take care of each other.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people out there who want
Speaker 1: to manipulate you and want to change the way you
Speaker 1: think about things, and they really really want you to
Speaker 1: buy in to the end times and you don't have
Speaker 1: to because you're smarter than that. Yeah, it's it's not hopeless.
Speaker 1: We really have to move away from hierarchical thinking. Our
Speaker 1: society really incentivize this hierarchical thinking. And think you're saying
Speaker 1: to is sack like we um, we really need to
Speaker 1: just be focusing on people, like if things people because
Speaker 1: you know, somebody doesn't have to you know, earn you know,
Speaker 1: respect and earn humanity. For some reason, we try and
Speaker 1: make it seem like that. But people are people. Um,
Speaker 1: people are in different circumstances because of usually because of
Speaker 1: just the way that the world is, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you need to just you need to organize locally. You
Speaker 1: need to help your own people and stay away from
Speaker 1: the internet. Ship stop posting. Don't stop posting as a
Speaker 1: stop posting, even though we'll keep doing it because because
Speaker 1: I'm the good posters. Um, who wants who wants to
Speaker 1: pluck the pot? You're pought follow at terrorism bad? We're on?
Speaker 1: That's what? What is the plot? Like? What? What? What
Speaker 1: do you? Yeah? We go through, um, portrayals of terrorism
Speaker 1: and extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media, and
Speaker 1: we look at it from the perspective of people who
Speaker 1: studied this and say, did this succeed in portraying these
Speaker 1: things or did it as more often does problems completely
Speaker 1: fail and cause us all personal problems become propaganda? And like,
Speaker 1: did you make care of propaganda or did you make
Speaker 1: good media about terror? That is a thin line, I
Speaker 1: mean such a thin line. I've made a career out
Speaker 1: is that is the thin terror line? Yeah? Do you
Speaker 1: want to plug your fantastic group? Yeah? Absolutely, with you
Speaker 1: can read anything I read at Anti Hate dot c
Speaker 1: A and we do just general reporting on h far
Speaker 1: right extremism in Canada as well as Infiltration podcast. Oh
Speaker 1: and I also hosted podcast called The Usual Show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want to keep up to date on extremism
Speaker 1: in Canada, their group is one of is probably the
Speaker 1: best one around right now in my opinions. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you do, you do, you do very good work. You
Speaker 1: keep your eye on my home country where my family lives.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Um, and I'm very happy
Speaker 1: to be talking with you guys in the beautiful woods
Speaker 1: where we have no cell service. We can't post um
Speaker 1: and that's good and we're gonna continue doing that and
Speaker 1: stop using this microphone. So goodbye. UM Yeah, and terrorism
Speaker 1: at the podcast. With that, that wraps up the Terrorism
Speaker 1: round Table Forest Discussion episodes. Thanks for listening to all
Speaker 1: of us rant about our specific weird niche focuses and
Speaker 1: hopefully trying to have it within the useful context of
Speaker 1: climate change. You can follow me at Hungry bow Tie.
Speaker 1: You can follow the podcast Happen Here pod and cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media on Twitter and I believe Instagram can follow
Speaker 1: some of the researchers I interviewed UM on their podcast
Speaker 1: at Terrorism Bad. So that wraps up this discussion. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, See you later in the podcasting verse, the
Speaker 1: pod verse. Okay, goodbye. Here's to the great American settlers.
Speaker 1: The millions of you has settled for unsatisfying jobs because
Speaker 1: they pay the bills, and you just kind of fell
Speaker 1: into it, and you know, it's like totally fine, just
Speaker 1: another few decades or so and then you can enjoy yourself.
Speaker 1: Of course, there is something else you could do. If
Speaker 1: you've got something to say. You could, I don't know,
Speaker 1: start up podcast with Spreaker from my Heart and unleash
Speaker 1: your creative freedom and spend all day researching and talking
Speaker 1: about stuff you love and maybe even earn enough money
Speaker 1: to one day tell your irritating boss as you quit
Speaker 1: and walk off into the sunset. Hey, I'm no settler,
Speaker 1: I'm an explorer spreaker dot com. That's spr e a
Speaker 1: K E R. Hustle on over today. Hello and welcome
Speaker 1: to our show. I'm Zoe Deschanel and I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to be joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah
Speaker 1: Simone and Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television
Speaker 1: series New Girl. Join us every Monday on the Welcome
Speaker 1: to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes
Speaker 1: stories of your favorite New Girl episodes, revealed the truth
Speaker 1: behind the legendary game True American, and discuss how this
Speaker 1: show got made with the writer's, guest stars, and directors
Speaker 1: who made the show so special. Fans have been begging
Speaker 1: us to do a New Girl recap for years, and
Speaker 1: we finally made a podcast where we answer all your
Speaker 1: burning questions like is there really a bear in every
Speaker 1: episode of New Girl. Plus each week you'll hear hilarious
Speaker 1: stories like this at the end when he says you
Speaker 1: got some schmid on your face. I feel like I
Speaker 1: pitched that joke. I believe that. I feel like I did.
Speaker 1: I'm not on a thousand percent I want to say
Speaker 1: that was I tossed that one out. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's a
Speaker 1: problem here the show where I'm a problem? I'm on
Speaker 1: vacation legally. You're not on vacation allegedly legally, but okay,
Speaker 1: in La I'm drunk Garrison, You're in charge, now, figure
Speaker 1: it out. G Hi, it could happen here. Today, we
Speaker 1: are talking with somebody. If you've listened to the past
Speaker 1: two episodes, you should actually you know, uh, THEO, who
Speaker 1: is a journalist and researcher, and we are going to
Speaker 1: be discussing plans for an upcoming rally in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: That's has a lot of that seems good. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is the things never happened? When, what happened? What happened
Speaker 1: last time? What happened last time? I don't I I
Speaker 1: historically only pay attention to things that happened after May
Speaker 1: and before December, so I'm unaware of anything bad ever
Speaker 1: happening in DC. Well, something bad stuff happened there last time.
Speaker 1: It got it got a little spicy, Um, okay, spicy.
Speaker 1: But it's not like they tried to overthrow the government
Speaker 1: murder elected leaders, right, that is what they were actually
Speaker 1: having too much fun. Yeah, they're just boys. They were
Speaker 1: just proud of their boys. A little carried away building,
Speaker 1: all of the building, that big hanging contraption whatever it's
Speaker 1: called gallows gallows. Yeah, anyway, we're talking THEO. Do you
Speaker 1: want to want to introduce yourself? Yeah, Hey, guys, I'm THEO.
Speaker 1: UM idealist and a researcher. I'm based out of Virginia.
Speaker 1: Allegedly I end up covering a lot of events in
Speaker 1: d C because of that, And that's my plans for
Speaker 1: this weekend. Yeah, do you want to do you want
Speaker 1: to give us like an overview of what rallies and
Speaker 1: DC have been like the past, let's say, like the
Speaker 1: past year. Oh boy do I yeah, let's just for background. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: like pretty much immediately post election, as the whole kind
Speaker 1: of stop the Steel thing got kicked into gear. UM,
Speaker 1: November fourteen, there was a rally in d C. UM,
Speaker 1: and then there was one December twelve, and then there
Speaker 1: is finally one as most people are probably aware, on
Speaker 1: January six. Yeah, January six, you know, obviously got the
Speaker 1: bulk of the media coverage. UM. But November fourteenth and
Speaker 1: especially December twelve were very violent situations in general. UM,
Speaker 1: proud boys, General Chud's, a bunch of oathkeepers, bunch of
Speaker 1: people's confused memas and pat paps showed up. UM would
Speaker 1: kind of wander around the Yeah yeah they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty pretty fucked up. I know some people who were
Speaker 1: there when they did, and it's I don't know, it's sad,
Speaker 1: like it's really bleak. I was there with the people
Speaker 1: that you know Yubert, Oh good, yeah, so you I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just it's so fucking um. I don't know the
Speaker 1: extent of the disinformation, right, it's hard when you're talking
Speaker 1: about this to like express a lot sympathy for some
Speaker 1: of these people. And I'm not sympathetic towards their aims.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to do the New York Times like
Speaker 1: let's talk to the Trump voter down the street, but
Speaker 1: like a lot of them are just like they're fucking
Speaker 1: dumb people who bought into some bullshit and it it
Speaker 1: destroyed them and their relationships with their families and in
Speaker 1: some cases cost them their lives. And like you don't
Speaker 1: have to sympathize with them to be like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: bleak as ship, you know. Yeah, And I think you
Speaker 1: see that with the dc rallies really more so than
Speaker 1: like uh Portland's Proud Boy event for example, that is
Speaker 1: not at all a gathering of like the masses, that's
Speaker 1: that's a specific group of pieces of ship. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And like you'd have absolutely like units of Proud Boys
Speaker 1: or oath keepers. We had three per centers, some local
Speaker 1: Virginia militias, and they'd kind of be wandering around. But
Speaker 1: during the day itself, you'd normally see like speakers. Alex
Speaker 1: Jones was there. Um got to meet him. That was fun.
Speaker 1: Um good. That's always a treasure meeting Alex. He's a
Speaker 1: great guy. It was really fun. He's his neck. It's
Speaker 1: hard to exaggerate how how he is just as red
Speaker 1: in person. He's so red, and as a guy who's
Speaker 1: good at strangling, it seems like he would be hard
Speaker 1: to strangle. Oh, nearly impossible. Like that's so big. It's
Speaker 1: such like it's like a fucking train car. Like it's
Speaker 1: ridiculous how big that man's neck is. Look, most people
Speaker 1: aren't hard to strangle. Alex Jones would be. That's not
Speaker 1: praising him, that's just being honest. So during the day
Speaker 1: there would be speakers, you know, Alex Jones, and you
Speaker 1: kind of see people split up into whatever they're specific
Speaker 1: brand of fucker he is. There's like groups of nerdy
Speaker 1: looking gropers. Um, there were some trad cats wearing road
Speaker 1: Those guys were fun. But yeah, a lot of it's
Speaker 1: you know, confused like boomers on Facebook and kind of
Speaker 1: to Robert's point, like I normally didn't go, you know,
Speaker 1: wearing press credentials because I value knives being outside of
Speaker 1: me and not inside of it. Yeah, it's it's good
Speaker 1: to not get stabbed. Most people appreciate that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite things. And so I'd get
Speaker 1: to like talking to these people, especially the older ones,
Speaker 1: because I take the Metro into the city and they
Speaker 1: are mean. They're just confused, old people who have gotten
Speaker 1: in over their heads. But yeah, then like the sun
Speaker 1: would set and that's when the Proud Boys would really
Speaker 1: start getting into ship. November they stabbed. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I'm remembering this correctly, so feel free to fact
Speaker 1: check me, but I believe there was two people on
Speaker 1: the uh they cracked a girl's skull, and then on
Speaker 1: December twelve, they stabbed one other person and Jeremy Bertino
Speaker 1: got flayed on this. He shared it, He shared it,
Speaker 1: and the f d A elected not to prosecute because
Speaker 1: that was the clearest case of self defense I have
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. Um yeah, so, like, like
Speaker 1: the dude literally tried to flee three times. He drew
Speaker 1: his knife after by the third time he was blinded
Speaker 1: by having a shirt bold and assaulted by a group
Speaker 1: he had no other choice. Yeah, he did exactly what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do in that situation and repeatedly tried
Speaker 1: to flee and when he did, and he stabbed a motherfucker.
Speaker 1: And you can't, I I can't. He did nothing wrong
Speaker 1: in my in my opinion, all the d a's opinion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all probably better off for it. But yeah, there's
Speaker 1: this kind of established Uh, there was this established sort
Speaker 1: of cycle of show up a bunch of weird Republican
Speaker 1: politicians that you've never heard of before, give speeches. Uh,
Speaker 1: you go and kind of wander around, and then the
Speaker 1: Proud Boys come out and they funk around, and sometimes
Speaker 1: other groups too, like Januine Worry. The night before January six,
Speaker 1: there were people from NSC one who were hanging out,
Speaker 1: trying to cause trouble, getting in altercations all their normal ship.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, there's this kind of like general mix
Speaker 1: of groups. January six shifted the paradigm on that a lot.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the big thing for this weekend
Speaker 1: is we don't really know it's gonna look like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: can you talk about kind of what has kind of
Speaker 1: the event promotion looked like from the right, like what
Speaker 1: have they what messages have they been putting out to
Speaker 1: promote this event with So, yeah, a lot of like
Speaker 1: the bigger groups have been fairly explicitly saying like don't
Speaker 1: go officially. Unofficially is a bit of a different story
Speaker 1: and fairness, It's worth noting that prior to UM the
Speaker 1: United Rally and Charlottesville, the Proud Boys were saying don't go,
Speaker 1: and an awful lot of their most violent members were
Speaker 1: at Unite the Right in Charlotte'sville. You know, it's some
Speaker 1: some of this is a plausible deniability game. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: like the official Proud Boys telegram channel was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is I mean in different words, but we're pretty
Speaker 1: much like this is a honeypot, this is the trap,
Speaker 1: this is an op don't go UM. But also like
Speaker 1: we've seen activity that really suggests otherwise UM. Whether it's
Speaker 1: like smaller, more local groups saying that they want to go,
Speaker 1: or UH streamers and journalists using the word lightly to
Speaker 1: UH who have pretty close relationships with these groups, hiring
Speaker 1: extra stringers for the weekend, or looking like they're preparing
Speaker 1: to report on something big. Yeah, the kind of the
Speaker 1: I know, we've talked a little bit um online with
Speaker 1: some of our colleagues, and there's definitely a mixed a mixed,
Speaker 1: a mixed opinion on how big the event is going
Speaker 1: to be and who's all going to be there and
Speaker 1: what kind of their goal is, which makes kind of
Speaker 1: everything all the more tense because you know, it's almost
Speaker 1: easier to when we know what it's going to be,
Speaker 1: like we like we have a good grasp and what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen, and this we're not really sure. Um do
Speaker 1: you do you know, has there been any kind of
Speaker 1: response from like local DC officials, like like law enforcement
Speaker 1: or anything about what they're gonna do at this gathering?
Speaker 1: So I did see Capital Police is planning to put
Speaker 1: the fence back up. Um probably a good idea, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which like will cover the capital. But there's also a
Speaker 1: problem with the fence going up, which is the back
Speaker 1: of the fence goes right up to the end of
Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter Plaza in d C, which has
Speaker 1: been used as kind of a rallying point for uh
Speaker 1: anti fascist activists, and when that fence is up, it's
Speaker 1: just it's a funnel. The so it goes like this
Speaker 1: is an of visual medium. There's a street, uh, and
Speaker 1: that's where Black Lives Matter plause is, And there's only
Speaker 1: two exits, and both those exits lead to hotels that
Speaker 1: proud boys and Chud's love to stay in. So what happens,
Speaker 1: almost without fail is people go and hang out in
Speaker 1: the plaza. You know, Chud's come down the streets. Police
Speaker 1: form a line, and it's pretty much a pre made kettle, right,
Speaker 1: So that's like not good. Uh, it's good for the capital,
Speaker 1: but it's not good for the people that will be
Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, because they're also as is most
Speaker 1: of these events. UM, there has been some organizing locally
Speaker 1: and even you know uh and de fashions from around
Speaker 1: kind of the country trying to like put out advice
Speaker 1: and feelers and like what to do for the specific gathering. UM.
Speaker 1: And I know there's been there's been a decent amount
Speaker 1: of you know, there's there's always like debate and conflict
Speaker 1: of around how much to show up, where to show up,
Speaker 1: you know, how proact people should be. UM. But because
Speaker 1: this is the first big rally since j six, I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of people. I feel it's
Speaker 1: much more important and like the people have like you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's there's like there's like a heightened sense around
Speaker 1: the specific thing. Um. Do you know like how many
Speaker 1: people are kind of roughly planning to show up on
Speaker 1: like the anti fascist side. It's really hard to tell,
Speaker 1: um d C anti fascist actions. I've seen, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple dozen people in block towards close to a hundred.
Speaker 1: I would um, from what I've heard, the kind of
Speaker 1: main counter demo that's happening is uh, definitely less radical
Speaker 1: and it's kind of trying to establish sort of a
Speaker 1: community space thing. Uh. So I would say, I don't know,
Speaker 1: expect around fifty like people who are there to throw hands, yeah,
Speaker 1: and a lot more people who are just kind of there.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's this, Uh, it's this thing we saw.
Speaker 1: I was in d C for Unite the Right too,
Speaker 1: you know, the second rally, and it it didn't turn
Speaker 1: into much of a thing. You know. I think because
Speaker 1: of the preparation, the expectation, and I guess I'm interested
Speaker 1: in if you think I'm wrong on this, but my
Speaker 1: current expectation is that maybe that might be the most
Speaker 1: likely outcome because because of the degree of and the
Speaker 1: unexpected event already occurred and was awful. I'm not expecting
Speaker 1: anyone will be given free leash, you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: could definitely see that sort of Unite the Right to
Speaker 1: scenario playing out, especially because it is very similar, like
Speaker 1: there was this massive, shocking event that kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: and so then people will I think the only big
Speaker 1: difference is, like in the aftermath of Unite the Right,
Speaker 1: you kind of saw at times of misguided media focus,
Speaker 1: but still a media focus on anti fascist activists as
Speaker 1: playing a unique role when you didn't have that for
Speaker 1: January six, And I think that's that's really one of
Speaker 1: my bigger worries is less so kind of clashes between
Speaker 1: chud's and uh anti fascists, which is still I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, that's always a thing that may happen, but
Speaker 1: also like you have to think these chuds that are coming,
Speaker 1: when they look at DC police, they see someone, they
Speaker 1: see the people who killed Ashley Babbitt. When the DC
Speaker 1: police look at these Chudd's, they're the people who beat
Speaker 1: someone beat one of their co workers to death. And
Speaker 1: you're like, there's Capital Police not same as DC Metro Police,
Speaker 1: but like in the minds of both these groups. That
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, and I worry about the tension there.
Speaker 1: I like, I don't care if they mace each other.
Speaker 1: You know, if the Proud Boys and Cops mace each other,
Speaker 1: then that's a great day for me. But if it
Speaker 1: escalates further, and you know, we're seeing that more and
Speaker 1: more the past, was it past to kind of major
Speaker 1: right wing rallies in the Pacific Northwest have had shots fired? Yep, yep, yea.
Speaker 1: Every every reason PW protest has involved gun fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like the one the August one had, I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it a legitimate change, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a casual gunfight. I mean, the the start of it
Speaker 1: was legitimate. The right winger who fired was not legitimate, um,
Speaker 1: But the two people on the left who responded, we're
Speaker 1: doing so in self defense. Now, what happened a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks later, from the video that's come out, was
Speaker 1: not self defense. It was a guy shooting at somebody
Speaker 1: pursuing them from like fifty feet back. You know, it
Speaker 1: was not legally what you would call self defense for
Speaker 1: certain Yeah, and that kind of the precedent that that's set,
Speaker 1: which I think it's happened a few enough times that
Speaker 1: we can't really say that it's it's the norm or
Speaker 1: anything like that, but it's still it's an escalation. It's
Speaker 1: something absolutely is did Like if that, if that had
Speaker 1: happened in when Unite the Right happened like that would
Speaker 1: have been unprecedented. It's very frightening, you know, and it
Speaker 1: it should be. It doesn't matter what you think about
Speaker 1: the morality of shooting tiny you know or whatever. Exchanges
Speaker 1: of fire becoming more common is a threat to everybody,
Speaker 1: and it is something that should concern everybody. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot of and this was kind
Speaker 1: of the impetus of the first season of it could
Speaker 1: happen here, but like the early days of something like
Speaker 1: the Syrians of Award where it went from protests to
Speaker 1: exchanges of gunfire too. You know what it is. Now
Speaker 1: do you think DC specific gun laws um will make
Speaker 1: gunfire in DC a little bit less likely? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't? Like? Still like the police always have that
Speaker 1: capacity if they feel, um, you know, if if they
Speaker 1: choose to, but more specific on like the right between people,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like no boogs are going to
Speaker 1: show up or whatever. Um, what kind of talk do
Speaker 1: you see around firearms? So yeah, kind of just from experience,
Speaker 1: I think my worry with DC's gun laws is only
Speaker 1: one side will be armed every time that Chedd's come
Speaker 1: to d C. I mean they are obviously carrying. I mean,
Speaker 1: every single one of them is print is printing. You
Speaker 1: can tell that they have firearms on them. They don't
Speaker 1: really try to hide it, and none of them have
Speaker 1: ever I mean, I guess apart from Tario getting arrested
Speaker 1: for illegal magazines, like, none of them have really faced
Speaker 1: any consequences for that. And the general fear among people
Speaker 1: on the left is well, even if I do come
Speaker 1: and I carry for self defense, if I get arrested
Speaker 1: for something unrelated, that will enhance whatever charges I get. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: it's sketchy and it's Um, I don't I'm not convinced
Speaker 1: in the situation d C is in specifically, that showing
Speaker 1: up with a fucking firearm is the right call. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not in this business to lecture people, but I'm
Speaker 1: not convinced that's going to help. In the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 1: we've seen situations where people with weapons, as on the
Speaker 1: twenty two defended themselves and others. And we've seen situations
Speaker 1: in which people on the web with weapons on the
Speaker 1: left escalated things. So it's not a it's never a
Speaker 1: zero sum game, you know, it's not. It's not a
Speaker 1: simple issue. Is a neutral tool, you know. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I don't want to, like, I don't want it to
Speaker 1: come off like I'm encouraging, you know, every person in
Speaker 1: block to show up with a long gun like that,
Speaker 1: because that would be a fucking disaster most likely. But
Speaker 1: also like, I don't like the idea of, you know,
Speaker 1: looking at a line of Proud Boys or something and
Speaker 1: knowing every single one of these people has a gun,
Speaker 1: and I do not. That's an imbalance of force that
Speaker 1: I don't like when things, if things do escalate. No,
Speaker 1: that that's completely reasonable in my opinion. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the big thing is just there's so many unknowns. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we've never really there's not much of a
Speaker 1: historical precedent for group tries to overthrow the government, group
Speaker 1: shows back up in d C months later, or elements
Speaker 1: of the same kind of ideology. Yeah, we just don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, even like I think that Unite the Right
Speaker 1: to example is similar, but also like markedly different enough
Speaker 1: that I don't know if it's an all encompassing tool
Speaker 1: for like this is what it's gonna look like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is there any like specific players that you know is
Speaker 1: going to show up or or have like said that
Speaker 1: they're going to show up. So one that I kind
Speaker 1: of worry about is, um, oh, I'm gonna get fucking
Speaker 1: tweets for this, God damnit. Um. So there's a group
Speaker 1: in Virginia that you may have heard of, b LM
Speaker 1: seven five seven. Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: They are based out of the Virginia Beach area and
Speaker 1: they're the biggest pain in the ass ever um they
Speaker 1: work with. They claim to be a Black Lives Matter organization.
Speaker 1: The local Black Lives Matter organizations have to announced them.
Speaker 1: They work with Boogloo boys. They were very tight with
Speaker 1: Mike Dunn before he uh snitched and roped off the
Speaker 1: face of the earth. Yeah. Um. And then yeah, they
Speaker 1: come and I don't like the idea of them coming
Speaker 1: to a town that is not familiar with them, because
Speaker 1: like they come to Richmond, for example, and people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's b l M seven seven. We don't funk with them.
Speaker 1: But they come. You know, they come to a town
Speaker 1: or groups like this like uh n f a C.
Speaker 1: Theyre not not fucking around. Coalition tried to come to
Speaker 1: d C, and I these groups that are gonna be armed,
Speaker 1: are gonna want to escalate and are gonna kind of
Speaker 1: try to slide in to like a counter demo or
Speaker 1: stick around like the more left leaning parts of the crowd,
Speaker 1: and then could very quickly escalate things. So they're one
Speaker 1: that I'm worried about. Some local Virginia Militia Movement players
Speaker 1: have been chatting about it. I haven't seen really that
Speaker 1: much in the way of like definitive statements that they're
Speaker 1: gonna go um and those guys don't really worry me.
Speaker 1: There a bunch of nerds who like to play dress
Speaker 1: up in the woods mostly. But yeah, it's again, it's
Speaker 1: just like these kind of unknowns. Yeah, so just like
Speaker 1: not knowing who's going to show up and what they're
Speaker 1: gonna do and where'll they're be and yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 1: and this was a thing. Definitely. It reminds me a
Speaker 1: lot of the first stop, the Steel Rally, where we
Speaker 1: had more concrete groups saying we're gonna be there. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of more chatter about it on social media,
Speaker 1: but it was still kind of like I don't know
Speaker 1: like what range of the sort of right wing ideological
Speaker 1: spectrum will be here, Like I know, you know Q
Speaker 1: and on your Q and on uncle will be there.
Speaker 1: But like, for example, on November four, uh, Jason Kessler
Speaker 1: was there, the organizer of Unite the Right. I literally
Speaker 1: bumped into Jason Kessler, like I was walking and my
Speaker 1: shoulder hit him and I looked up and I was like, oh, sorry, dude,
Speaker 1: and then I just kind of stopped and I was like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: I recognize you. Yeah, you're that famous piece of ship. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So like it's kind of that same thing
Speaker 1: where we don't we really just don't have that much intel,
Speaker 1: and it seems like, you know, people with access to
Speaker 1: more streams of information than us, like the FEDS have
Speaker 1: been saying for I guess a couple of months now,
Speaker 1: like we're monitoring this situation where like preparing to stop
Speaker 1: another January six, which take it with a grain of salt.
Speaker 1: It is the FEDS, but also like part of me,
Speaker 1: a lot of the worry I get from this is
Speaker 1: people that I know no more than I do, reacting
Speaker 1: to it like chud streamers hiring stringers, FEDS saying like
Speaker 1: announcing months before that it's a situation that they're preparing for.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are very interested in what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. I think people are definitely preparing for a
Speaker 1: lot of different different outcomes, and that makes any kind
Speaker 1: of resistance to it hard because you don't know if
Speaker 1: you're over if you're over preparing, under preparing, You don't
Speaker 1: know if you'll have what you'll do. Your prepary to
Speaker 1: it is too aggressive and not aggressive enough. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and always trying to like you know, feel it out
Speaker 1: once you're there is more scary because once you're there
Speaker 1: in person, a lot of communications breakdown between other you know,
Speaker 1: other activists that that's what happened in like the last
Speaker 1: big rally in Portland is people try to know change
Speaker 1: up plans once they got to the spot, and it
Speaker 1: kind of made everything a lot a lot more challenging
Speaker 1: because it's hard to a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: people in block don't have their phone on them. It's
Speaker 1: just it's hard to get ride. It's you know, any
Speaker 1: kind of any kind of impromptu organizing at the site.
Speaker 1: It's always gonna be way more challenged than trying to
Speaker 1: figure this stuff out at home. And yeah, that's just
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, it's it's I think I
Speaker 1: think the United the right to background is useful for
Speaker 1: like a big event after you know, a previous event
Speaker 1: that had a lot of coverage and had a lot
Speaker 1: of talk about it because it had, you know, a
Speaker 1: disastrous outcome. And then I think looking at you know,
Speaker 1: looking at November fourteen in December ten, um are also
Speaker 1: are also kind of val able indicators. Has there been
Speaker 1: any have you seen anything around the grapers or like
Speaker 1: any of the Fuentes crew showing up to this or
Speaker 1: they are they trying to just are they are they
Speaker 1: trying to like keep good optics? I guess I've as
Speaker 1: far as I've seen, they're mostly trying to keep good
Speaker 1: optics around us. Um they as they also kind of
Speaker 1: fall into the category of like people I'm not super
Speaker 1: worried about like some of them. Yeah, but in like
Speaker 1: a street fight situation, in a street fight less so
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about a groper. Yeah, the most violent
Speaker 1: encounter I've ever had with a groper was one that
Speaker 1: was probably five ft tall. Following me around and calling
Speaker 1: me a soy boy for thirty minutes. Yeah. But what
Speaker 1: I'm more concerned about is is Graper is kind of
Speaker 1: following the in CeAl terrorism tradition of you know, skinny
Speaker 1: of skinny white guys getting access to weapons and than
Speaker 1: than doing something uh not with the gun is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're not going yeah here finished what you were saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, you know, all all of the
Speaker 1: Grapers I've seen, they're not going to beat me in
Speaker 1: a fist fight because they're all even even more they're
Speaker 1: not even more like because your fastest ship. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and and that and that. Yeah, Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: kind of another thing that's you know, it's always a
Speaker 1: possibility of these things. Like I always say, like the
Speaker 1: worst possible outcome is someone someone starts shooting, like a
Speaker 1: firefight is always the worst way this could go. But
Speaker 1: with the sort of optics surrounding this, I I think
Speaker 1: there's definitely space for more extreme people, uh specifically more
Speaker 1: accelerationist minded people to try to start something, to try
Speaker 1: to cause ship. I mean, uh, like I said, I'm
Speaker 1: in Virginia. I think of the Richmond gun rally in
Speaker 1: the lobby day in what was that twenty nineteen beginning
Speaker 1: of I Forget all Time is a flat circle to
Speaker 1: me now, but um, the members of the base that
Speaker 1: we're intercepted on their way to Richmond. Uh. I think
Speaker 1: about that situation and how other people and other groups
Speaker 1: that we will not talk about on POD could see
Speaker 1: an opportunity here. Yeah, And I think that's I think
Speaker 1: that's more likely happening in somewhere like DC than it
Speaker 1: is in Portland's right, because in Portland we have a
Speaker 1: pretty good grip on who shows up and why they
Speaker 1: show up. The East coast, the south, um, northeast, Southeast,
Speaker 1: they have a lot more groups with interested with you know,
Speaker 1: obscure ideologies that are more think more prone to those
Speaker 1: types of to those types of like um, more insurgent attacks.
Speaker 1: And I think people are on the West coast. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think another thing that kind of amplifies that is,
Speaker 1: like you said, like Portland has kind of an established
Speaker 1: infrastructure of chud fuckery, you know. I mean, I'm on
Speaker 1: the other side of the country and I know the
Speaker 1: familiar faces of Portland's bullshit, and we we do have
Speaker 1: that to an extent, but d C brings people from
Speaker 1: all across the country. I was meeting people on the
Speaker 1: metro from everywhere from Tennessee to Kansas to California. And
Speaker 1: when people are coming in from such a broad range
Speaker 1: of places, there's a lot more uncertainty. Yeah, well, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure and anything else you want to mention about
Speaker 1: kind of what you expect at this rally and any
Speaker 1: I don't know general advice has since you've been at
Speaker 1: the past three versions. Yeah, so, I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: in the DC area or you're nearby, and you're comfortable
Speaker 1: with it and physically able to do so, I show up. Um.
Speaker 1: The one thing that we do know for sure about
Speaker 1: these events is that the more bodies we have, the
Speaker 1: less likely it is for people to be able to
Speaker 1: pray on someone walking home from work or houseless person
Speaker 1: just trying to sleep. Yeah, the more bodies that we have,
Speaker 1: the better it is. Um. If you are either unable
Speaker 1: to come or you don't feel comfortable coming, I know
Speaker 1: that there will be jail support mutual aid efforts UH
Speaker 1: and Garrison. I can send you to some links to
Speaker 1: local d C orgs if you want to throw it
Speaker 1: in the show. Notes. Um. But yeah, just and if
Speaker 1: you're gonna go, be prepared, have have a buddy, uh
Speaker 1: lock up, bring h bringing I FAK, and get ready
Speaker 1: to party. Yeah. I think that's one of the things
Speaker 1: you mentioned is like more numbers helps in the case
Speaker 1: of it's less likely they'll be like roaming attacks, because
Speaker 1: that's what we've seen at a lot of these rallies
Speaker 1: is that sometimes they don't ever like actually cause trouble
Speaker 1: at where people are, you know, like where the where
Speaker 1: the people are. They wait until people are walking away
Speaker 1: or going back to their car, or if there's no
Speaker 1: one like that, they just find some random person on
Speaker 1: the street. You know. We saw a lot of that
Speaker 1: in d C of of Proud Boys just finding kind
Speaker 1: of people in the area that they thought looked like
Speaker 1: Antifa quote unquote and then just attacking them. Um. So know,
Speaker 1: the less scattered people are, um, the less likely to
Speaker 1: get kind of those roaming attacks. Yeah, I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's always hard to speculate on the event on
Speaker 1: an event that hasn't happened yet, but I believe by
Speaker 1: the time, by the time the airs, it will be
Speaker 1: happening tomorrow. So as Saturday, THEO do you want to
Speaker 1: plug anything? Yeah, you can find me on Twitter. Um
Speaker 1: at THEO Hansen, THEO with a zero. Uh. Listen to
Speaker 1: my podcast Terrorism Bad. We look through portrayals of terrorism
Speaker 1: and extremism in popular media. See how it holds up
Speaker 1: to the real world. Um, trying to think of anything else.
Speaker 1: I'll be there on Saturday. I'll be live tweeting the event.
Speaker 1: I'm not live tweeting that dead or otherwise incapacitated or
Speaker 1: I don't have cell service. Service is always horrible at
Speaker 1: these things. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah, it's a constant problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They were blocking signals on January six on the Capitol lawn,
Speaker 1: and when I stepped off, I had like thirteen texts
Speaker 1: from all my friends that were like, hey, text me
Speaker 1: if you're still alive. It's really hard to tell what's
Speaker 1: going on, you know, when you're when you're like whether
Speaker 1: or not it's like a cell signal problem, or if
Speaker 1: it's somebody like targeting you in particular, it's frustrating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, well, thank you, cl thank you for giving
Speaker 1: us the rundown on Saturday's activities. UM, I hope you
Speaker 1: don't get shot, Thank you. I hope I do not
Speaker 1: as well. That's my general feeling towards anyone who shows
Speaker 1: up on uh, you know, on the eighteenth in d C.
Speaker 1: I hope you don't get shot. Do your best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you do get shot, you know what to
Speaker 1: do about it? Well? Yeah, I have a have a
Speaker 1: have a care a minute, you know, have some cell locks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's ideal, But not getting shot is better. So you
Speaker 1: cannot remember what Try not to get shot, all right.
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Speaker 1: Robert and Sophie. Thanks to meet you. You can follow
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