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Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the

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Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas. We have been very busy

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Speaker 1: this semester, and I say semester because it is dealing

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Speaker 1: with school. The kids are back at school, they're at

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Speaker 1: college at TCU. We have a daughter, a son who

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Speaker 1: is a senior. And Laura and I were going to

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Speaker 1: going over our calendar, which we do from time to time,

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Speaker 1: of like, Okay, when are you going to be out

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Speaker 1: of town? What trips are you taking? And I've kind

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Speaker 1: of based my calendar on Josh's lacrosse schedule. He plays

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Speaker 1: lacrosse at TCU and this is it. It's a senior year.

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Speaker 1: And so I was debating this trip coming up with

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Speaker 1: Lauren and I was like, well, I may not go,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, he's only got a few more of

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Speaker 1: these left. This is another chapter closing in his life.

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Speaker 1: And so we have this discussion about just that of

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Speaker 1: chapters closing in life, whether it's yours, your own kids,

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Speaker 1: and being present for those and kind of drinking them

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Speaker 1: in as much as you can, because when they're gone,

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Speaker 1: they're gone. And with Josh who's playing lacrosse. It's been

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Speaker 1: a journey of and it's the culmination of everything. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's not it has nothing, well, very little to do

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Speaker 1: with lacrosse. It's just the culmination of a lifetime of

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Speaker 1: watching him grow play sports. I coached him in little

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Speaker 1: league and in soccer, and you know, remember when he

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Speaker 1: could barely hold a stick playing lacrosse and now here

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Speaker 1: he is a senior in college and he has his

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Speaker 1: last few games that I just want to be a

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Speaker 1: part of. And I'm glad you came up with me

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Speaker 1: the other day and watched. It's just fun and my

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Speaker 1: heart gets filled up and I get sad and I

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Speaker 1: get emotional because that door is closing.

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Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to ask you, is how you

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Speaker 2: approach that mentally, emotionally? What are you thinking about it?

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Speaker 2: Because you said something to me that stuck out as

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Speaker 2: we were driving through campus. You said, gosh, you know,

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Speaker 2: in just a couple years, Taylor will be done and

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Speaker 2: then we like won't be up here anymore. I mean

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Speaker 2: now we go to TCU a lot, we have two

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Speaker 2: kids there. There's parents' weekends and lacrosse games and sorority

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Speaker 2: weekends and all these.

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Speaker 1: Things across that campus a million times back and forth.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, we're very blessed to have two

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Speaker 2: kids at the same school. It's been so fun for

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Speaker 2: us and so great that they share this experience. But

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Speaker 2: you said that, you said we won't be up here anymore.

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Speaker 2: And I noticed that you said it in kind of

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Speaker 2: this emotional, reflective way, and it's not even really a

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Speaker 2: thought that crossed my mind. And that kind of made

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Speaker 2: me realize. I think you and I approach chapter closings

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Speaker 2: a little bit differently. But first tell me what went

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Speaker 2: through your mind, and what goes through your mind?

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Speaker 1: I think to be very deep at your own mortality.

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Speaker 1: It is your own life kind of flashing before your eyes.

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Speaker 1: I remember when my kids went to kindergarten or pre

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Speaker 1: k whatever it is, early days at Westminster in California,

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Speaker 1: up in Westlake Village, and I remember like were they

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Speaker 1: were there for the first couple of years of school,

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Speaker 1: and there's this oak tree and we're like sitting I'm

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Speaker 1: like talking to a buddy, and I'm like, man, are

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Speaker 1: we ever going to leave this courtyard? And you know,

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Speaker 1: are we gonna be sitting under this oak tree forever?

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Speaker 1: And then boom, like that it's gone and you're in

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Speaker 1: elementary school, and then boom, you're in middle school and

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Speaker 1: then high school. And it's just things fly by so fast.

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Speaker 1: And you know whoever came up with the line that

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Speaker 1: you know the years go by.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the days are long, but the years are short.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true. Days are so long, and but

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Speaker 1: the years do fly by, and that all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I vividly remember trying to think about where's Josh going

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Speaker 1: to go to college? And then it's like TCU and

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Speaker 1: so now he's there, and now it's he's already coming

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Speaker 1: to an end, and he's already thinking about that next chapter.

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Speaker 1: I think we're all blessed with God gives us this

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Speaker 1: blessing of not being away of those things were going

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Speaker 1: through ourselves, like do you remember the last time you

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Speaker 1: walked off stage in high school? Right?

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Speaker 2: No, it doesn't hit you at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Right And I for me, I played college soccer and

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Speaker 1: I loved soccer. I don't remember walking off the field

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Speaker 1: and thinking this is it. I've scored my last goal.

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Speaker 1: I've you know, this is it my last truly competitive game.

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Speaker 1: Now I went on and played a little semi pro

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Speaker 1: and goofed around, but you know, for some reason, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's to protect ourselves from ourselves. You don't

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Speaker 1: have that realization. But my point is I do have

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Speaker 1: that realization for Josh as a parent as a parent,

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Speaker 1: and I have that realization for Taylor as her dad

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Speaker 1: and watching her take these steps and watching Josh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I, well.

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Speaker 2: You're so right that you can't convey that to them.

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Speaker 2: You can say it, but it doesn't sink in, like

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Speaker 2: it's like self protection.

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Speaker 1: I spoke to me. I went back to Oklahoma City

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Speaker 1: University where I went to college and played soccer, and

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Speaker 1: I spoke to the team one time and they said,

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Speaker 1: you know, my coach, who the late great Brian Harvey,

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Speaker 1: was like, he called me Harry. He's like, Harry, you

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Speaker 1: do have anything to say to the team? I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: enjoy everyfing moment. And what I meant by that is

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Speaker 1: like I remember he used to you know, practice, practice sucked.

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, it's hot or it's cold or it's whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you're just running your brains out and getting yelled at.

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Speaker 1: And I would give anything to know that. At two

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Speaker 1: thirty every day I got to go play soccer, like

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Speaker 1: what think of it? It's recess, but back then it was

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Speaker 1: like a job, right. And so I told joshuas he's

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Speaker 1: heading into this senior year because he's just kind of

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Speaker 1: getting going, and I said, hey man, this is it.

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't expect you to understand what that means,

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Speaker 1: but just go enjoy every moment and when you walk

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Speaker 1: out there at practice or a game, just smile and

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Speaker 1: know that you got your boys with you and this

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Speaker 1: is it, like this is awesome, and just enjoy those

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Speaker 1: moments more than anything because you take that last shot,

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Speaker 1: you will have that last goal, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: the game of life ticks down on everybody. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to also drink that in with you this

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Speaker 1: season and go to more of his games and try.

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Speaker 2: And say, yeah, well, I mean I think there is

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Speaker 2: exactly what you're talking about, some self preservation in not

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Speaker 2: having that full awareness, because if you did, you'd be

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Speaker 2: too sad to enjoy the moment. Yeah, there's also something

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Speaker 2: triumphant and amazing and like, you know, yeah, I'm playing

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Speaker 2: lacrosse and I'm a senior, and so you want that

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Speaker 2: to be joyful. And I think I'm a little bit

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Speaker 2: more like I don't stop and think about that stuff

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Speaker 2: as much, but I kind of do it consciously because

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Speaker 2: I go back to this a lot. But I think

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Speaker 2: it is because of my dad. Like I think that

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Speaker 2: when my dad died, which was sudden. I realize I've

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Speaker 2: said this before, but you don't know what life's going

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Speaker 2: to throw at you, right, And so that applies in

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Speaker 2: a multitude of ways that philosophy, Like I don't really

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Speaker 2: like to stop and think, oh, this might be say

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Speaker 2: you're moving out of a house. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: stop and think, oh, you know, we're moving out of

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Speaker 2: this house. It's sad because I want to focus on

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Speaker 2: where are we going and what's next, and like let's

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Speaker 2: look at the happy stuff. And then also I just think,

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Speaker 2: you don't know. For all you know, you could come

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Speaker 2: back to this neighborhood. You don't know where life's going

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Speaker 2: to go or what's where it's going to take you.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, Josh, like a little bit where my mind

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Speaker 2: goes is Okay, don't be sad because it's over. Be

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Speaker 2: happy that it's happened. And yes, Josh is closing this

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Speaker 2: chapter of Lacrosse, but you know he hadn't. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they went to champion, they were district champions. He had

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Speaker 2: so many great.

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Speaker 1: Wills of the national tournaments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, well, I hope he continues not

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Speaker 2: in the same way, but I hope he like finds

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Speaker 2: other ways to play lacrosse.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you bring up an interesting and.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying you're like depressed and I'm just saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, but.

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Speaker 1: I do look at things sentimentally. But I agree when

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Speaker 1: when it's you, when you're in that moment, like when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, Well, you're still competing, Like like

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Speaker 1: Josh is competing now. He's not going to have this

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand foot view of life and reflect on it

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Speaker 1: now because he's trying to win. He wants to go,

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Speaker 1: you know, to win the conference and go to the

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Speaker 1: national championship again. And like you're trying to win, so

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Speaker 1: you don't stop and think. Also, by the way, this

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Speaker 1: is it for me and so as an adult though,

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Speaker 1: like when we moved out of the house in LA

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Speaker 1: when we moved here to Austin, that's the house didn't

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Speaker 1: have tremendous meaning for me. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: there were it was a it was a time a

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Speaker 1: very interesting and special time in my life were the kids.

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Speaker 1: I was a single dad, which was bizarre and crazy.

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Speaker 1: I never thought I would be, but I was. And

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Speaker 1: I watched the kids grow up there, you know, going

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Speaker 1: through elementary school, they went to middle school, went through

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Speaker 1: high school in that house. So I remember when everybody

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Speaker 1: was gone and the house was empty, and well, I

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Speaker 1: just walked through the house. And you have these pictures

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Speaker 1: that come up in your head, these videos, if you will,

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Speaker 1: memories of taking pictures outside before dances, or you know,

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Speaker 1: throwing Taylor her birthday, the mom and me a birthday

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Speaker 1: party that you and I threw her. Just stuff like

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Speaker 1: that that just were sweet memories. Now I haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about that house, and I didn't particularly like that house.

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Speaker 1: I love this house fifty thousand times more. So it's

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Speaker 1: not that I miss it or lament the fact that

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Speaker 1: I'm gone, but I do hold some of those things

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Speaker 1: to your And same thing with Joshua. You know, I

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Speaker 1: remember driving home from Palm Springs. That's where his last

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Speaker 1: big club lacrosse tournament was. This thing called Sandstorm. You

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Speaker 1: can drive out to Palm Springs, and I remember driving

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Speaker 1: home and every year we would stop at the in

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Speaker 1: and out Burger on the way home get a burger,

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Speaker 1: and we'd drive home. And I pulled in and got

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Speaker 1: a burger. I'm actually getting choked up thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: I got a Hamburger and I literally tears come to

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Speaker 1: my eyes. And I was just thinking. I was looking

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Speaker 1: across at this eighteen year old man, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is the last time I'm going to probably be

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Speaker 1: in like a hotel room with him. Like I just

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Speaker 1: was pick up in an out burger, coming home from

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Speaker 1: a game, doing our thing, you know, where he's reliant

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Speaker 1: on me. You know, he's a man, but he's not

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Speaker 1: a man yet. So it just that crushed me and

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Speaker 1: I realized that was it. So some of these chapters closing,

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Speaker 1: it's gratifying, exciting, you're so proud, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: it's okay to be sad and miss them.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm realizing we're different than this. Maybe part

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Speaker 2: of it is that I don't like to be sad.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, so you mentioned you mentioned why year different,

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Speaker 1: probably because of your dad and the way you reflect

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Speaker 1: on life, but you didn't how does that translate then

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Speaker 1: about how you see things.

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Speaker 2: I think that grief made me realize that the most

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Speaker 2: the single most dangerous thing people can do, I feel,

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Speaker 2: for their own mental health is to be stuck in

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Speaker 2: a chapter of their life. Greed is to not move forward,

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Speaker 2: is to when life throws the traumatic thing at you,

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Speaker 2: to get lost in it and not keep going.

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Speaker 1: It then defines you the rest of your life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the I mean, grief is part of my

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Speaker 2: life for sure, but you can't let it define you exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I think that, yeah, if people allow that, and

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Speaker 2: I do think it's a choice, it can ruin your life.

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Speaker 1: So people who then, by the way, just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: we're not saying forget, hey, move on, suck it up

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Speaker 1: and move on and forget. It's not that, but it's

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Speaker 1: just if you live in that.

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Speaker 2: You need to keep going. You need to move forward

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Speaker 2: with your life. And I think that like because of

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Speaker 2: that mentality, I just don't like to be sad when

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Speaker 2: a chapter is closing. I like to think, Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: what's the exciting thing we're doing. And I really can

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Speaker 2: probably take a lesson from you in this that it

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Speaker 2: is important to do what you're talking about and to

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Speaker 2: soak in a moment, like to reflect, to think back

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Speaker 2: on Like sometimes I think I don't think back on

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Speaker 2: things enough, but you know it's out of fear of

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Speaker 2: thinking back on them too much. But yeah, like I

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Speaker 2: would approach, you know, I want to allow the space

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Speaker 2: for your very real emotions and feelings about like your

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Speaker 2: child is growing up and you've done all this stuff

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Speaker 2: as a parent, How could you not reflect on all that.

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Speaker 2: I so like, hear what you're saying. My first instinct

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Speaker 2: would be to say, like, but yeah, but like now

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Speaker 2: we're gonna have all these other great memories to be

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Speaker 2: made with Josh, Like we're gonna watch you know, get

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Speaker 2: his first job and then hopefully all these great times ahead.

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Speaker 2: But I need to allow for the moment of reflection

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Speaker 2: before the moving forward.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, you know. And again, even thinking

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Speaker 1: about just I always get so emotional, like they did

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Speaker 1: this to us on purpose, and it was beautiful. But

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Speaker 1: when Taylor where Taylor went to school, they did a

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Speaker 1: father daughter dance, which they do a lot of places,

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Speaker 1: but one thing they did was there was a book

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Speaker 1: and so every year they took a picture and you

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Speaker 1: would sit down with your daughter and you would write things,

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Speaker 1: different questions, different things, and a lot of times it

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Speaker 1: would be the same questions, so every year would be

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Speaker 1: a little different answer, right. And the point is when

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Speaker 1: you get to your senior year, they would give you

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Speaker 1: this book and you see all these pictures. And I

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Speaker 1: remember the very first father daughter dance. This is back

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Speaker 1: when she was in elementary school. And I left the house.

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Speaker 1: I went to go get flowers. I got all dressed

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Speaker 1: up because I wanted to pick her up from from house.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ring the doorbell. I wanted her to

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Speaker 1: come to the door in her dress and see what

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Speaker 1: it was like to be picked up on a date,

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Speaker 1: how she should be treated that I brought her flowers

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Speaker 1: and opened the door for her, et cetera. And then

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Speaker 1: we're dancing that night, you know, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: back in the it's the cliche, it's the Steve Martin.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's standing, she's standing on your shoes dancing,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then next thing you know, you're at

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Speaker 1: her wedding and you can't help but flash forward. And

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Speaker 1: it is the flashing forward which is what made me

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Speaker 1: think of this. It's thinking forward of one day, God

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Speaker 1: bless and God willing, I will be walking her down

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Speaker 1: the aisle and I will be dancing that first dance

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Speaker 1: with her at her wedding, But here I am now

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Speaker 1: with her standing on my shoes, and that passage of

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Speaker 1: time goes so quick, and you just you try to

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Speaker 1: hold onto it as much as you can without, as

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Speaker 1: you said, living in that moment and letting that define you.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's not always going to be a little girl.

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Speaker 1: And I've loved every single stage that Taylor and Josh

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Speaker 1: have been through. I truly have, and I'm excited for

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Speaker 1: the next one. Taylor's in college and she's a sophomore.

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Speaker 1: It's it feels like she'll be in college forever, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: Like Josh is a senior. You know, it goes quick,

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Speaker 1: but it feels like Taylor's going to be at this

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Speaker 1: place for a long time and it's only two more years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, And I also I struggle a little bit

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Speaker 2: because sometimes I'm like, I don't want to think about

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Speaker 2: that too much because I just want to enjoy the moment.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm realizing something as you're talking to like,

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Speaker 2: maybe I struggle with the reflecting part because with my dad,

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Speaker 2: I only have the past to look at.

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Speaker 1: No, He's made you emotional, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's part of it, is that, like I

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Speaker 2: don't want to reflect because all I can do is

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Speaker 2: look back. I don't have anything to look forward to,

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Speaker 2: so that I did not expect this. On this podcast

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Speaker 2: today we were like, let's do a quick little podcast

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Speaker 2: about closing chapters. I should have known closing chapter that

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Speaker 2: has a bigger connotation to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, maybe that's part of it. And I think

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Speaker 2: maybe I do need to I for sure have a

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Speaker 2: little bit of like a fear of reflecting too much, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because then exactly this will happen. Then I'll get sad.

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Speaker 2: And maybe what I'm afraid of is getting stuck in

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Speaker 2: that Like I just want to make sure I'm not

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Speaker 2: getting stuck in that place.

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Speaker 1: The late great Jim Valvano, who I admired and liked

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Speaker 1: very much. He was a famous basketball coach who famously

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Speaker 1: died of cancer, and before he left, he gave one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest speeches of all time at the SP's

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Speaker 1: on the ESPN Sports Awards, and he said, every day

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Speaker 1: you should laugh, you should cry, something should move you

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Speaker 1: to tears, something should create that emotion, and you should think.

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Speaker 1: And we've done all that in the matter of the

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Speaker 1: last twenty minutes. Let's close this chapter. Let's close this chapter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for sharing, and this is why I

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Speaker 1: love our talks because we've both got emotional today, we

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Speaker 1: both laughed and it's definitely given us a lot to

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Speaker 1: think about. So thank you, Jim Valvano, and thank you

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Speaker 1: for listening. Truly appreciate you, guys, and I hope you

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Speaker 1: have taken a little something away from today's podcast. Always

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Speaker 1: love it. We'll talk to you again next time because

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Speaker 1: we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever

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Speaker 1: and make sure to write us a review and leave

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Speaker 1: us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.